PodBiz | Where's The Money In Podcasting?

Is podcasting focusing on the wrong metrics?For years, the business conversation around podcasts has centered on CPMs, ad fill rates, and monetization mechanics. But Rox Codes believes the bigger opportunity lies somewhere else entirely: growth.Rox is the CEO and co-founder of Flightcast, a platform built with Steven Bartlett that brings YouTube-style analytics and experimentation into podcast publishing. His background comes from the YouTube creator ecosystem, where content strategy revolves around testing, packaging, and constant iteration.As Rox puts it:“The money in podcasting traditionally has been where can I find an extra dollar? Like how do I up my CPM or my ad fill rate… fill rate and CPM. But if you made the episode better, you’d hit another mid-roll. If you got people to listen 5% longer, you’d hit another mid-roll.” In the YouTube world, creators obsess over packaging: thumbnails, titles, and audience retention. Rox argues that podcasting can learn from that playbook.“On YouTube, if you want to make an extra dollar and you’re getting 1,000 views, you have one option. You get 2,000 views.” But applying that mindset to podcasting isn’t simple. The medium operates with less data, fewer discovery systems, and a very different culture around creators and content.In this episode of PodBiz, Rox joins Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan to discuss the analytics gap in podcasting, why experimentation matters more than many creators realize, and how platforms may evolve as video and audio ecosystems converge.In this episode, we discuss• Why podcast monetization conversations focus heavily on CPMs• What podcasting can learn from YouTube packaging and discovery• The analytics gap between YouTube Studio and podcast hosting platforms• Why experimentation is essential for creator growth• How small podcast audiences can generate meaningful revenue• Why creators should become “students of the game”• The future convergence of video and podcast ecosystemsEpisode Chapters(02:08) Where the money in podcasting really is(03:34) The YouTube mindset behind creator growth(05:44) Metrics creators should actually track(08:25) What experienced podcasters already understand about their audiences(14:02) Why podcast analytics still lag behind video platforms(18:50) Building Flightcast as a growth platform(21:27) Why relative performance metrics matter(24:50) Choosing the right stories inside a niche(31:01) Why small audiences can still generate large revenue(40:16) Becoming a “student of the game”About Rox CodesRox Codes is the CEO and co-founder of Flightcast, a podcast growth platform designed to help creators analyze, optimize, and scale their shows. Before launching Flightcast with Steven Bartlett, Rox built ThumbnailTest.com, a YouTube optimization tool used by major creators to experiment with thumbnails and titles. His work focuses on bringing data-driven experimentation into podcast publishing.Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“You should spend as much time on the thumbnail and title as you did on the entire episode.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you reach the right audience inside a global industry?Victoria King Meyer has built a podcast that answers that question with clarity. As president of Progressio Global and host of The Chemical Show, she has created a platform that connects leaders across the chemical industry while expanding her reach beyond traditional trade media.In this episode of PodBiz, Victoria joins NJ to discuss what it takes to build authority through podcasting in a sector that is global, complex, and often overlooked by mainstream business media. The conversation explores how niche B2B podcasts create value, why reach matters more than raw download numbers, and how a show can expand into community, events, and business development.As Victoria puts it, “The riches are in the niches.” She also makes a strong case for thinking beyond vanity metrics. “Downloads don’t count,” she says, arguing instead for a broader view of audience reach, influence, and impact. In this episode, we discuss:• Why industry podcasts can become powerful media platforms• How The Chemical Show serves the global chemical sector• Why reach and influence matter more than downloads in B2B podcasting• How Victoria approaches sponsorships, executive visibility, and audience growth• The role LinkedIn plays in professional podcast distribution• What it looks like to turn a podcast into events, community, and business opportunityAbout Victoria King Meyer:Victoria King-Meyer is the president of Progressio Global and host of The Chemical Show. A chemical engineer with an MBA, she spent more than 25 years in the chemical industry before launching her consulting business. Today, she advises leaders across the sector and uses podcasting as a platform for connection, insight, and industry visibility.Connect with Victoria King Meyer:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoria-king-meyer/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/victoriakingmeyer/The Chemical Show: https://www.thechemicalshow.comEpisode Chapters(01:15) Reaching the right audience(03:30) From chemical engineer to podcast host(10:13) Marketing a podcast(12:37) LinkedIn for B2B podcast growth(21:59) Turning a podcast into a revenue stream(24:38) What industry sponsors are actually buying(30:33) Building the Chemical Summit(35:39) Measuring reach beyond downloadsSome Additional PodBiz Buzz:“The riches are in the niches. I’m a big believer of that. Podcasting is such a great form of storytelling across business mediums, and leaders are looking for opportunities to share their story and connect with people.” “If you produce a podcast and don’t tell anybody about it, will anybody hear it? No. You have to share the story of your story and actually market the show.” “Podcasting is still an immature baby. There is so much room for growth and change, and that’s what makes this such an exciting time to be building something.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If advertising is a billion-dollar market, where does that leave independent creators?In this episode of PodBiz, NJ sits down with Alberto Betella, co-founder of RSS.com, for a platform-level look at where revenue actually lives.Alberto’s answer begins with scale. Advertising remains the largest total addressable market in podcasting and continues to grow. But volume drives ad revenue. For smaller or niche shows, funding models and subscriptions may be more realistic starting points.“Money is in ads,”Alberto explains.“But if you are a small podcaster… and you ask for funding, it kind of works.”From Podcasting 2.0’s funding tag to Apple subscriptions and delegated delivery, this conversation explores how reducing friction directly impacts monetization. When payments are simple, revenue becomes possible. We also go deeper into RSS.com’s origin story from a 2006 open-source publishing tool to a modern hosting platform — and Alberto’s background in affective computing, now known as Emotion AI.His product philosophy is clear:“Simplicity is complex.”In this episode, we discuss:Why advertising dominates revenue conversationsWhen funding and value-for-value make strategic senseApple subscriptions, early access, and frictionless paymentsEducation as the biggest monetization gapBuilding RSS.com from bootstrapped beginningsEmotion AI and Alberto’s path from academia to SaaSThe Podcast Standards Project and industry collaborationEpisode Chapters(01:47) Ads, TAM, and revenue scale(03:20) Funding tags and direct listener support(08:21) Apple subscriptions and reducing friction(13:17) Educating creators at scale(25:25) The origin of RSS.com(31:48) “It’s difficult to be simple”(37:54) Industry standards and collaborationAbout Alberto BetellaAlberto Betella is the co-founder of RSS.com. With a PhD in affective computing, he began building podcast publishing tools in 2006 before launching RSS.com with Ben Richardson. Today, he focuses on product strategy, infrastructure, and advancing open podcast standards across the industry.Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Reducing friction and making things simple is key.”“There is a difference between chance and luck. If you open more doors, you increase your chances.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What if audience development doesn’t start at launch… but at concept?This week on PodBiz, we’re joined by Catrin Skaperdas, Marketing and Audience Development Director at The Podcast Guys, whose career spans Cumulus Media, independent consulting across European markets, and now building marketing infrastructure inside a growing UK agency.Catrin makes one thing clear: marketing is not an afterthought. It belongs in the room from day one.As she puts it:“Now I'm part of podcast development. I'm in the room at the beginning of the conversation and I'm working with these brands to just to figure out what the best concept is for them. What's going to get them to their goals.”And when it comes to monetization for independent creators, she’s equally direct:“The money can be found when you use your podcast as part of a brand ecosystem.”This is a grounded, practical conversation about audience growth, branded podcast strategy, European market nuance, and why downloads alone don’t define success.Here are some insightful moments within the episode:Why monetization isn’t “one giant pile of money”How indie creators can build revenue beyond adsWhy brands must budget for marketing as seriously as productionWhat podcast audits reveal about discoverabilityWhy European podcast markets operate differently country to countryThe real meaning behind “the death of the download”Why consistency builds subconscious audience trustHow audience development evolves from execution to leadershipEpisode Chapters (01:54) Where is the money in podcasting? (04:52) Paid promotion and podcast listener targeting (08:39) Why brands must fund marketing properly (14:36) Building and launching Italian For Sure (18:12) Why audience development starts in development (22:39) U.S. vs European podcast markets (25:49) Mindset and staying current in the industry (27:46) Moving beyond downloads as the primary metric (30:09) Building marketing departments inside agencies (38:54) Consistency, seasons, and avoiding podfade (44:21) Accessibility, video pressure, and the future of podcastingSome Additional PodBiz BuzzOn consumption over downloads:“If you have just a hundred downloads an episode and you are getting complete, 100 percent completions to that, that's no longer just 100 downloads per episode.”On scrappiness:“How do you get scrappy? How do you make it work?”On consistency:“Pick a schedule that you can be consistent with.”On marketing clarity:“You never want to over ask anybody to do anything.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where is the money in podcasting when you’re not chasing a big network buy?This week on PodBiz, NJ sits down with Matt Cundill (AKA Captain Canada), founder of Sound Off Media, longtime radio and podcast strategist to talk about what monetization really looks like for independent podcasters.Matt breaks down what he calls “small buckets of money” and why the biggest revenue often comes from one or two direct advertiser relationships rather than large agency buys. He explains how newsletters, websites, and owned inventory often get overlooked, and why podcasters should think beyond just pre-roll and mid-roll ads.He also shares insights on Canadian podcast markets, exportability, and why comparison across borders can distort expectations.As Matt puts it:“The best money you're going to find is going to be the deals that you cut individually with an advertiser or a client or a partner.”The conversation moves into audience development, consumption data, and what makes a show sustainable long term. From three-year audience timelines to personality-driven growth, this episode is a practical look at podcasting as a business.In this episode, we cover:• Why “small buckets of money” add up • The one or two advertisers every show should focus on first • How to leverage newsletters and inventory beyond the audio feed • Why Canadian podcasts face different scaling realities • The three-year rule for building an audience • Consumption metrics and why 80 percent matters • Personality, hosting skills, and mic discipline • Taking breaks without killing momentum • Why video is a marketing tool more than a revenue engineEpisode Chapters (01:55) Where’s the money in podcasting (04:15) The one or two advertisers that matter most (06:21) Grants, foundations, and brand fit (09:51) From radio to podcasting (11:18) Dynamic ad insertion and monetization (17:22) Three years to build an audience (23:08) Consumption data and tightening your show (27:18) Canadian markets and scale realities (34:33) What Matt would do differently (37:35) Video as marketing and the coming equipment glutAbout Matt CundillMatt Cundill is the founder of Sound Off Media, a podcast network and consulting company based in Canada. With a background in radio programming and voiceover, Matt helps podcasters refine their sound, grow their audiences, and build sustainable advertising models.Find him on socials at @mattcundill on X, Instagram and Facebook. Some Additional PodBiz Buzz“Small buckets of money is what I like to call it.”“The best money you're going to find is going to be the deals that you cut individually with an advertiser or a client or a partner.”“It takes three years to build an audience.”“We wanna get you to 80 percent consumption.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on PodBiz, NJ sits down with Patrick Hill, Founder and CEO of Disctopia, to unpack where power, money, and influence are converging across podcasting, music, and creator platforms.Patrick brings a platform-level view of the industry. He explains why monetization is increasingly tied to access, subscriptions, and distribution control, how opinion-based media has become financially powerful, and why long-form content remains the engine behind sustainable revenue.From creator subscriptions to streaming versus RSS, from indie hustle to enterprise platforms, this conversation connects the cultural shifts shaping podcasting to the business models emerging underneath them.In this episode, we cover:Why the money sits between content creation and distributionHow subscriptions and exclusive access are reshaping monetizationWhy people now pay for opinions, not just informationThe role of community and cause-driven creators in building leverageHow Disctopia evolved from music streaming into podcast hostingStreaming vs RSS and where Patrick believes the industry is headingWhy long-form content is where revenue is actually generatedThe relationship between short-form visibility and long-form incomeKey moments: (01:44) Where Patrick sees money concentrated in podcasting (02:14) Subscriptions, exclusivity, and creator access (05:36) Entertainment, opinion, and monetization power (07:31) Creators, causes, and niche communities (12:46) How Disctopia entered podcasting (17:47) Streaming vs RSS and future formats (22:08) Long-form content as a revenue driver (36:13) What Patrick would do differently building todayAbout Patrick HillPatrick Hill is the Founder and CEO of Disctopia, a creator-first platform supporting podcasting, music, audiobooks, and streaming distribution. With a background in information technology and software development, Patrick has built Disctopia into a multi-format platform serving independent creators, enterprise clients, and institutions. His work focuses on helping creators distribute content, build community, and get paid.Additional PodBiz BuzzPatrick on where real leverage comes from:“Long form gets you paid. Short form gets you noticed.”Patrick on subscriptions and access:“People are paying exclusive pricing for opinions. That’s where the money is.”Patrick on creators and power:“Money and power are starting to live in independent voices.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it actually take for an independent podcast to become partner-ready? This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Michael Osborne about how shows move from passion projects to major media partnerships and why that transition is almost never fast or accidental.Michael has built and produced multiple podcasts that successfully partnered with organizations like Smithsonian Magazine, PRX, and Wondery. Across those projects, he’s seen firsthand how patience, clarity of concept, and real audience feedback matter far more than chasing trends.As he explains:“Minimum viable product and a partner-ready show are not the same thing.”Throughout the conversation, Michael and NJ unpack what creators often misunderstand about timing, originality, and the work required to make a podcast attractive to partners without losing its creative core. They also explore why most successful deals come years into a show’s life and how audience research, not downloads alone, shapes long-term growth.This episode offers a grounded look at podcasting as a business built on iteration, collaboration, and trust.Key Topics Discussed• The difference between indie experimentation and industry readiness• How podcasts evolve into partner-ready properties• Why originality of concept and host both matter• Audience research as a growth and development tool• Why partnerships take years, not months• Increasing value density in audio storytelling• The role of producers and collaborators in refining shows• Balancing creative fulfillment with sustainable business goalsAbout Michael OsborneMichael Osborne is a seasoned podcast producer and consultant based in Austin, Texas. He launched his first show, Generation Anthropocene, in 2011 during his PhD studies in climate science at Stanford University. The podcast later partnered with Grist and Smithsonian Magazine. Michael went on to develop Raw Data, a narrative podcast that collaborated with PRX and PRI, and Famous & Gravy, a dead celebrity biography podcast currently partnering with Wondery. His work has earned multiple Webby and Signal Awards, including for Famous & Gravy, Black Women of Amherst College, and Stanford’s From Our Neurons to Yours. Michael has also delivered two TEDx talks and operates 14th Street Studios, a production and consulting firm in downtown Austin.Connect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-c-osborne/Threads: https://www.threads.net/@famousandgravyFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100076654703402Episode Moments(01:04) Michael’s path from academia to podcasting(03:13) Three shows, three different partnerships(05:48) Originality and value density in podcast concepts(10:51) Why partner timelines are longer than creators expect(14:56) MVP versus mature, partner-ready shows(16:20) Gathering meaningful audience feedback(19:01) Interactive formats and listener insight(24:41) Producing podcasts as a long-term practice(31:25) Sustainability and creative careers(38:43) How partners evaluate podcast projects(44:01) The future of audio-first storytellingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“A lot of people think success happens quickly, but most of the meaningful progress happens quietly over time.”“Audience feedback tells you things downloads never will.”“The shows that last are the ones that keep learning.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does sustainable monetization actually look like for independent podcasters today? This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Danielle Desir Corbett about how creators can build resilient podcast businesses by thinking beyond single revenue streams and treating their work as a portfolio.Danielle shares how her approach to monetization has evolved over time, why relying on one income source is risky, and how creators can design businesses that compound value even when the market shifts. Rather than chasing trends or short-term wins, she explains the importance of owning assets, nurturing community, and staying flexible.As she puts it: “When one income stream pretty much dies on the vine and dries up, I can pivot and shift and refocus. That’s been my reality for 2025.”The conversation explores how podcasting fits into a broader creator ecosystem that includes newsletters, consulting, syndication, grants, and community-driven products. Danielle also walks through the creation of Grants for Creators and why helping other creatives access funding has become a meaningful and sustainable part of her business.This episode is a practical look at how independent podcasters can build long-term stability by thinking in portfolios, not paydays.Key Topics Discussed• What portfolio thinking means for podcasters • Why single-stream monetization is fragile • Relationship-driven brand deals and pitching • Pricing and packaging campaigns as an indie creator • Selling community as a business asset • Building and monetizing Grants for Creators • Airline syndication and evergreen content value • Storytelling as a long-term growth strategyAbout Danielle Desir CorbettDanielle Desir Corbett is a podcast strategist and the host of The Thought Card and Road Trip Ready. She is the creator of Grants for Creators, a paid newsletter that curates funding opportunities for podcasters, journalists, and creatives. Danielle previously founded and sold the Women of Color Podcasters community and works at the intersection of podcasting, personal finance, and travel.Websites: https://danielledesir.com/ https://thoughtcard.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedaniellecorbettEpisode Moments (01:21) Where Danielle sees money in podcasting today (04:00) Why portfolio thinking matters (06:03) How brand deals really work for indie creators (10:21) Pricing and packaging creator value (14:59) Danielle’s path into podcasting (19:01) Building and selling a creator community (27:40) Inside Grants for Creators (38:03) Airline syndication and evergreen ROI (41:51) What Danielle would build first todaySome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Close mouths don’t get fed.”“Just because you’re pivoting doesn’t mean what you built isn’t valuable.”“Podcasting has been one of the best investments I’ve made in myself.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What changes when podcasting moves from experimentation to infrastructure?This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Colin Anderson, Head of Network Development at the Office Ladies Podcast Network, about how podcasting has evolved into a serious commercial business and what that means for creators, networks, and advertisers operating at scale.Colin brings a perspective shaped by years inside podcast production, strategy, and network development. He explains why more advertiser money is flowing into podcasting than ever before, how networks think about audience value beyond downloads, and why community still matters even as the industry becomes more corporate.As he puts it: “The money’s here. There’s more money than ever.”The conversation also explores how podcasting culture has shifted from its early indie roots to a more structured, professionalized industry. Colin reflects on what has been gained, what has been lost, and how creators and operators should think about sustainability, loyalty, and long-term value in a changing ecosystem.Key Topics Discussed• Why advertiser demand in podcasting continues to grow • How podcast networks evaluate shows and revenue potential • Audience value beyond scale and raw download numbers • The role of community inside networked podcast businesses • Podcasting’s shift from indie culture to corporate infrastructure • Loyalty, labor, and evolving work culture in media • The influence of legacy media on podcast growth • What the next phase of podcast networks looks likeAbout ColinColin Anderson is Head of Network Development at the Office Ladies Podcast Network, where he works on network strategy, partnerships, and show development. He has spent his career across podcast production, monetization, and network leadership, giving him a clear view of how the industry has matured.Website: colinanderson.infoLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrcolinanderson/Episode Moments(01:02) The current state of podcast monetization (07:20) Community and audience value at scale (12:21) Colin’s path through the podcast industry (17:53) How podcast networks have changed (24:54) Work culture and loyalty in media (30:50) Legacy media’s role in podcast growth (37:08) The outlook for creators inside networks (44:06) Navigating podcasting as a businessSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Funny is funny, but it’s different to different people.”“Podcasting could support journalism in a way that print has failed.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Is the secret to podcasting success hidden in the French market?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Sarah Toporoff, Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner, about the evolving landscape of audience growth and monetization. Sarah discusses how her team is helping publishers break podcasting out of "walled garden" platforms and into the wider web, transforming organic traffic into loyal listeners.As she puts it:"Your audio engineer can't be your audience developer. Like, it just doesn't work that way."Here are some insightful moments within the episode:• Where the money is in podcasting: Why Sarah argues the true money is in the audience and why • France is a uniquely booming market for branded content.• Breaking the walled gardens: How to reach the billions of people online who aren't currently using dedicated podcast apps.• The "Owned, Earned, and Paid" framework: Why creators need to look beyond organic growth to reach new heights.• The "Death of the Download": Navigating the controversy of auto-play audio and why "guaranteed listens" are a better metric.• Professionalizing audience strategy: Moving past the "if we build it, they will come" naivete to implement real media strategy.• Awareness vs. Performance: Understanding the spectrum between generating impressions and building a loyal following.About Sarah ToporoffSarah Toporoff is the Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner. Based in Paris, she has over a decade of experience in media innovation, having worked in journalism innovation, radio product development, and publisher partnerships. She is a self-described "audio girly" who specializes in helping publishers and brands maximize their reach through contextual content recommendation.Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:04) Where is the money in podcasting? (01:29) What is Disco by Headliner? (03:27) Breaking podcasts out of "walled gardens" (04:49) Why audio was left behind by the web (06:33) Case Study: Doubling Al Jazeera’s audience overnight (10:52) The importance of paid media in a launch strategy (11:55) The controversy of auto-play and inflated downloads (13:34) The "booming" branded podcast culture in France (16:52) Sarah’s journey from English teacher to legacy media (23:32) Debunking the "If we build it, they will come" myth (26:34) The shift toward dedicated audience growth teams (30:06) Awareness vs. Performance: What are you actually buying? (33:15) Why you can’t buy loyalty (38:30) Real-world budget benchmarks for podcast growth (41:25) Riding the video wave without losing audio's soulSome Additional PodBiz Buzz: "The money is an audience."•"Real media has strategy and budget."•"A solid media plan is not going to fix a bad show." "My job is everything that happens after you hit publish."PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why do so many podcasters focus on monetization before they’ve solved distribution and audience growth?This week on PodBiz, we’re joined by Greg Wasserman, Head of Relationships at RSS.com, to break down how podcasters actually build leverage in the industry and why relationships, not just downloads, are at the core of sustainable growth.Greg challenges the industry’s obsession with ads and sponsorships as the only path to revenue. Instead, he explains why podcasting works best when it’s treated as part of a broader business strategy, whether you’re a creator, agency, or brand. From audience growth to distribution gaps to relationship-driven ROI, Greg offers a clear framework for thinking about podcasting as a long-term asset.As he puts it:“You want more money? Then go focus on how do you grow your audience.”He also emphasizes that many podcasters limit their growth by staying inside a single ecosystem rather than taking advantage of open distribution through RSS.This episode is a practical conversation about where value is actually created in podcasting and how creators can stop leaving opportunity on the table.Key Topics DiscussedThe three questions every podcaster asks: distribution, audience, moneyWhy monetization should not be the starting pointThe hidden cost of limiting your show to one ecosystemPodcasting as a relationship-driven business toolWhy most podcasters misunderstand ROIHow agencies leave money on the tableImproving as a host to grow audience trustCommunity building as a growth strategyWhy relationships are a form of currency in podcastingWhat excites Greg most about where the industry is headedAbout Greg WassermanGreg Wasserman is the Head of Relationships at RSS.com, where he leads creator and partner engagement across the podcast ecosystem. With a background in media sales, platform growth, and community building, Greg is known for connecting people, building long-term relationships, and helping podcasters think strategically about growth, distribution, and monetization.Find Greg on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/gregwasserman/Episode Chapters(01:18) Introducing Greg Wasserman(01:20) Where the money in podcasting really comes from(02:45) Podcasting as a business versus a media company(03:12) Rethinking monetization beyond ads(04:56) Why being a good host matters(05:17) Greg’s path into podcasting(06:00) Learning podcast distribution from platforms(06:56) The three questions podcasters always ask(07:38) Distribution as the fastest path to audience growth(08:13) Relationships as a career strategy(09:18) Where agencies leave money on the table(11:00) Improving your craft as a host(13:27) Building creator communities at RSS.com(15:59) Serving creators through feedback and partnerships(16:30) What Greg would do differently starting today(19:11) Why this is an exciting moment for podcastingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Life is about time and relationships.”“If you want more money, make sure you have those other 30 percent of your audience.”“Relationships can be currency. The more conversations you have, the more opportunities appear.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does sustainable podcast growth look like inside a fragmented, multilingual, rapidly developing European market?This week on PodBiz, Andreea Coscai breaks down how creators across Europe are building audiences, reaching listeners across borders, and monetizing through community-first strategies. As the founder of Eurowaves, Marketing Lead at Tink Media, and a key voice in global creator communities, Andreea offers a grounded look at what independent podcasters need to understand about the European landscape.As she puts it, marketing is not optional:“If you want to monetize your work, you have to make sure that you're investing as much in your marketing as you are in your production.”She also explains why connection and cultural alignment matter more than follower count:“It can be discouraging or nerve-wracking or risky, but you can also look at it as who else is doing this really, and how cool is it. Let me try.”This episode is a thoughtful, realistic look at what it takes for creators to grow in a market defined by nuance, collaboration, and diversity.Key Topics Discussed• How European creators build audiences across language and culture• Why marketing and audience clarity matter more than scale• Community-first growth and the rise of Eurowaves• How Tink Media supports podcasters through realistic promo systems• What creators misunderstand about social media and discoverability• Sponsorship reality in smaller or emerging markets• The role of grants, co-productions, and cross-border collaboration• Why global thinking benefits every independent creatorAbout Andreea CoscaiAndreea is the founder and writer of Eurowaves, Marketing Lead at Tink Media, newsletter and community coordinator at EarBuds Podcast Collective, and an independent podcast producer. She works across audience development, marketing strategy, and creator support throughout Europe and beyond.Connect with AndreeaEurowaves: https://eurowaves.substack.com/Events: https://eurowaves.substack.com/p/top-podcasting-eventsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreea-coscai/Pod.Vision: https://pod.vision/Episode Moments(03:29) Value alignment for Patreon and community support(04:08) How Eurowaves began and why Europe needed it(05:23) Community gaps in the European podcast space(06:57) What podcasters get wrong about audience development(08:54) Getting into podcasting through production and community(13:21) Cross-platform thinking for modern creators(14:42) Value packaging and sponsorship fit(16:50) Local markets, local sponsors, local wins(18:38) The fragmented but rich European ecosystem(19:48) How grants and co-productions shape opportunity(20:55) Storytelling across cultures(22:24) Learning from the U.S. while building something distinct(23:46) What Andreea would approach differently today(27:44) What excites her most about Europe’s creator futureSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“It can be discouraging or nerve-wracking or risky, but you can also look at it as who else is doing this really, and how cool is it. Let me try.” —Andreea CoscaiPodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where’s the money in podcasting for independent creators?This week on PodBiz, we talk with Andrew Weiss, Director of Partnerships at Podfest Expo, about the real paths to monetization for indie podcasters. Andrew works directly with thousands of creators through Podfest’s global community, and he brings a grounded, practical view of how shows grow, how they earn, and why some creators thrive while others fade out.Andrew explains why niche audiences consistently outperform broad ones, what strong brand alignment looks like, and how smaller shows win high-value sponsorships by understanding exactly whom they serve. He shares examples from the Podfest ecosystem, including a produce-industry podcast earning significant revenue because it reaches a high-intent audience brands care about.As he puts it:“More sponsor money is being put into podcasts every day. The riches are in the niches.”Andrew also talks about the mindset and systems that keep creators consistent. He breaks down batching, workflow design, community support, and why many podcasters underestimate the value of environment. His message is direct: when creators combine structure with a defined purpose, growth becomes achievable no matter their starting point.Another reminder he returns to:“You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.”This episode is full of practical insights for anyone building a show meant to last.Key Topics Discussed• How independent podcasters earn through niche audiences and alignment• Monetization beyond ads: lead generation, partnerships, coaching, and services• Why creators should define success before launching• Preventing burnout and podfade through systems and batching• How community and collaboration accelerate growth• Sponsorship trends, audience quality, and brand expectations• Why mindset, structure, and environment influence creator success• What Podfest creators are doing that works todayAbout Andrew WeissAndrew Weiss is the Director of Partnerships at Podfest Expo, where he leads sponsor relations, event operations, and community initiatives that support independent creators worldwide. He is also the host of Rapid Results with Andrew Weiss and brings a decade of experience in entrepreneurship, coaching, and creator development.Connect with AndrewSocials: @theandrewjweissEpisode Moments(00:05) Sponsor growth and why niche shows win(02:03) Where the money is for indie creators(03:10) Monetization beyond advertising(04:06) Andrew’s path into podcasting(07:16) How Podfest grew virtual creator events(08:57) Lead generation and brand alignment(11:15) Mindset, grit, and environment(15:27) The six-figure produce-industry podcast(17:54) Preventing podfade through structure(21:35) Running large-scale creator events(26:27) What Andrew is excited about nextSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“The riches are in the niches.” —Andrew Weiss“If you never ask, then the answer is always no.” —Andrew Weiss (via Gary Vee)PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What makes a show “monetizable” in the eyes of advertisers?This week on PodBiz, Veronika Taylor breaks down how brands evaluate podcasts, what creators often overlook, and why the future of podcast revenue extends far beyond a single medium. As SVP of Content and the Creator Network at Acast, Veronika oversees global teams, creator relationships, and the systems that power advertising across more than 140,000 shows.She shares a transparent view of what actually drives revenue, how creators can position themselves long before they hit a download threshold, and why integrated brand campaigns are rising faster than traditional host-read ads.As Veronika puts it:“Advertisers care about things you may think only your listeners look at. They’re combing through your cover art, your title, and your metadata. Anything that doesn’t feel right for their brand, they’ll cross you off the list.”Veronika also breaks down how Acast is shifting advertising conversations earlier in the funnel, how creators can use audience data to strengthen proposals, and why global podcast consumption habits remain one of the industry's most fascinating growth indicators.KEY TOPICS• How advertisers evaluate shows before they ever buy• Why metadata and branding matter more than creators think• How small shows are landing premium integrated campaigns• Programmatic innovation • Why video matters for some creators but not all• How to share audience data that strengthens ad sales• Global trends in podcast consumption and monetization• The value of listening to creator goals, not assuming them• Career lessons from navigating multiple media industriesABOUT VERONIKA TAYLORVeronika Taylor is the Senior Vice President of Content and the Creator Network at Acast, overseeing global creator partnerships, content strategy, and support across major markets including the US, UK, Europe, LATAM, and APAC. Her background in journalism and international publishing informs her approach to scaling shows, developing creator ecosystems, and shaping Acast’s global content vision.EPISODE MOMENTS(00:05) Every podcast has different goals(01:41) Welcome Veronika to PodBiz(01:52) Where the money is for most creators(02:56) Why monetization looks different for every show(03:45) Smaller shows landing big brand deals(05:02) Ads, sponsorships, and integrated campaigns(07:32) How creators can position themselves for advertisers(08:55) Why metadata matters more than you think(09:54) Feeding sales teams the right audience data(12:54) Moving advertisers earlier in the funnel(14:13) The rise of multi-platform branded campaigns(16:47) Why some creators stay audio-only(18:44) Marc Maron’s decision to end WTF(20:42) How Veronika entered the podcast industry(22:36) Why podcasting still feels new(25:43) Tailoring support for each creator’s goals(27:36) Branding, metadata, and audience alignment(28:59) The “invisible” internal work behind creator success(32:50) A global perspective on podcast growth(34:59) What Veronika is excited about nextSOME ADDITIONAL PODBIZ BUZZ“Podcasting is being consumed in so many different ways now, and as long as the storytelling reaches audiences, that’s what matters. Whether they’re watching on YouTube, listening in audio, or finding clips on TikTok, the medium is expanding in exciting ways.” “We’re seeing smaller shows with highly engaged audiences drive real revenue because they’re great at integrated campaigns across all their channels.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How do you build a podcast business that lasts- not just creatively, but financially?In this episode of PodBiz, host Norma Jean Belenky sits down with Jeff Umbro, Founder and CEO of The Podglomerate, to talk about what it really takes to grow a sustainable podcast company in 2025.Jeff shares how his background in book publicity shaped his approach to audience development, why choosing the right clients matters more than chasing big names, and how he built a business by focusing on people, fit, and long-term partnerships.As he puts it:“Work with people that you’re comfortable working with and don’t work with people that you’re not. It sounds simple, but if it’s not the right fit, it’s not going to have a good ending for anyone.”He also breaks down the realities of running a podcast agency from eight distinct revenue models to the constant balance between creative ambition and what keeps the lights on:“Do what works. If you can do that enough, then everything else can start to fall into place.”Whether you’re an indie creator, a brand exploring audio, or someone building a podcast business of your own, Jeff offers a grounded, honest, and deeply practical playbook for turning creative work into real revenue.Episode Chapters(00:05) Why fit matters more than prestige in client partnerships(01:03) Introducing Jeff Umbro and the origin of The Podglomerate(02:48) Where Jeff sees the money in podcasting today(04:13) Building community as a foundation for growth(05:20) From book PR to podcast production(07:09) Early traction and the shift to full-service representation(08:42) Doing what works and why creative ambition needs revenue behind it(10:25) Empowering teams and building a company that lasts(11:19) Trusting your gut in client and collaborator selection(12:49) Why understanding your audience is core to every revenue model(15:28) What most people misunderstand about podcast PR and launches(17:21) Sustainable growth over “big splash” thinking(19:02) Collaboration, transparency, and the podcast industry’s unofficial code(20:28) The future of podcast businesses and where Jeff sees opportunityGuest BioJeff Umbro is the Founder and CEO of The Podglomerate, a creator-first podcast company producing, marketing, and monetizing shows for major publishers, media companies, and independent creators. His work has helped shape some of the industry’s most successful launches and long-running series, grounded in a philosophy of strategic partnership, thoughtful storytelling, and sustainable growth.Connect with JeffLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffumbro/Podglomerate WebsiteL https://podglomerate.com/Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…“If it’s not something you’re proud of, nobody else will be proud of it either.”“You can’t fake growth. Consistency and community are what get you there.”“There’s always another shift coming in this industry, and that’s part of the fun.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does sustainable growth in podcasting look like when the industry keeps changing?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky talks with Arielle Nissenblatt, Director of Community and Content at Pinwheel and founder of EarBuds Podcast Collective.Arielle shares how creators can grow without chasing trends and why podcasting’s true value lies in connection, not scale. She explains how independent podcasters turn listener trust into real business opportunities through clarity, outreach, and knowing exactly who they serve.As Arielle puts it:“You are a creator who has figured out a niche. You speak specifically to a group, you understand their wants and their needs, and you actually have a direct line to them.. whether it's through a Facebook group, a monthly Zoom, or Patreon. If you know how to reach those people and can then translate what they need to a potential advertiser, you can make money.”Arielle also talks about the connection that keeps podcasting unique:“Podcasting is still magical because of the connection it creates. You can’t replicate that feeling in a YouTube video or on social media. It’s a voice in your ear, and that intimacy builds trust faster than any metric ever could.”In this episode:Why niche shows often outperform broad ones in revenueHow to turn audience connection into brand partnershipsWhat outbound pitching really looks like for creatorsWhy consistency and authenticity beat algorithmic reachGuest Bio:Arielle Nissenblatt is the Head of Community and Content at Pinwheel, cohost of Sounds Profitable: The Download, and founder of EarBuds Podcast Collective. Known for her community-driven approach, Arielle is one of the podcast industry’s most trusted voices on sustainable growth and audience connection.Connect with Arielle: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arielle-nissenblatt Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arithisandthat EarBuds Podcast Collective: earbudspodcastcollective.orgEpisode Chapters(00:00) The niche and the hustle(01:07) Knowing your audience(03:22) Turning community into opportunity(06:45) Outbound relationship building(09:31) Why podcasting is still magic(12:05) Measuring success beyond metrics(14:48) The future of creator collaborationSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“If you can translate what your audience needs to a potential advertiser, you can make money.”“Podcasting is still one of the few spaces where creators build trust without chasing algorithms.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How legally protected is your podcast?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan speak with Gordon Firemark, entertainment and media attorney known as The Podcast Lawyer™. Gordon shares how podcasters can protect their work, structure their businesses, and avoid the mistakes that cost creators time and money.He explains why “fair use” isn’t a safety net, why every show needs clear contracts, and how creators can think strategically about the business side of podcasting.As Gordon puts it:“You don’t want to walk up to a vending machine that says haircuts $1 and stick your head in the hole. Maybe you get a decent haircut, maybe you lose an ear. That’s what happens when you take a shortcut on something that actually matters.”Here are a few key takeaways from this episode:The top legal pitfalls podcasters overlookWhy fair use doesn’t mean what most thinkHow contracts protect co-hosts, guests, and editorsWhen and why to form an LLC for your podcastWhy ownership agreements matter for brands and collaborationsThe future of podcast discovery and YouTube’s legal implicationsGuest Bio:Gordon Firemark, The Podcast Lawyer™, is an entertainment and media lawyer, podcaster, and educator known as The Podcast Lawyer™. He helps creators and companies protect their IP, contracts, and business structures. Gordon is the author of The Podcast, Blog, and New Media Producer’s Legal Survival Guide and host of Entertainment Law Update and Legit Podcast Pro.Connect with Gordon Firemark:Website: https://gordonfiremark.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gordonfiremarkEpisode Chapters(00:30) The $1 Haircut Analogy(01:05) Welcome to PodBiz(02:19) Where’s the Money in Podcasting?(03:03) From Theater to Media Law(05:27) Why Podcasting Isn’t Radio(08:25) Making Legal Education Accessible(09:11) Templates, Courses, and the DIY Legal Toolkit(10:12) The $1 Haircut Rule(12:08) Treating Your Podcast as a Business(14:22) Top Three Legal Mistakes Podcasters Make(16:46) StoryBrand and Making the Client the Hero(18:36) Quality Over Quantity(18:52) The Future of Podcast Discovery(21:14) Audio First, Video Smart(22:10) Closing TakeawaysSome Additional PodBiz Buzz...“Getting people to pay you is great, but getting to keep the money they pay you is even better. If you don’t have contracts and clear ownership, you’re one disagreement away from losing it.”“Fair use isn’t a shield you can hide behind. The best way to stay safe is to get permission or make it yourself.”“Every podcast creates intellectual property. The sooner you treat it like a business, the more control you keep.”“Good audio, clear intent, and understanding your rights matter more than a perfect studio setup.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can working for a brand truly be where the money is in podcasting, and what metrics prove the ROI?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Stevie Manns, a producer with a background in both finance and media who currently works on the branded podcast The Bid for BlackRock. Stevie shares their journey of realizing a passion for podcast production and strategy during the pandemic and how they now apply their over a decade and a half of industry experience to help brands achieve significant return on investment and exposure.As Stevie puts it:"The podcast that you’re listening to at the end of the day is the tip of the iceberg ,5,%.. and 95% of it is what you don’t see below the surface".Here are some insightful moments within the episode• Why working for a brand remains one of the most reliable income paths in podcasting • How branded podcasts drive ROI through brand lift, thought leadership, and audience trust • What metrics actually matter, from subscriber growth to consumption rate • Why a 75 percent completion rate is “really, really good” for a branded show • How Stevie’s transition from finance to production led to purpose-driven work • The importance of caring deeply about your subject matter, even in complex topics • Why understanding your limitations and collaborating with experts builds stronger shows • How creative brand storytelling is evolving and why now is the time for bold ideasStevie Manns (they/them) is a producer currently working with BlackRock on their podcast, The Bid. They have a long professional background in finance and a creative background in music and radio, which they combined to pivot into podcast production and strategy. Stevie also works on independent projects, including the Star Trek podcast Set Phasers.Learn more about Stevie's work at http://steviemanns.com Episode Chapters(00:00) Where is the money in podcasting?(01:01) The value and ROI of a branded podcast(03:16) The halo effect and brand lift(04:50) Podcasts as “top of funnel” thought leadership(05:38) ROI as a function of content need, subscribers, and consumption rate(06:49) Defining a high consumption rate for brands(07:22) Stevie’s unconventional path into podcasting(09:56) The existential COVID question and realizing a passion for production(11:43) Combining finance experience with production passion(12:01) Independent projects, including work with a Ukrainian journalist(14:25) The key mindset: caring about the subject matter and telling a story(15:38) What people may not know about the producer’s role(17:49) Advice for creators: knowing your limitations and not trying to do it all(19:14) Thoughts on regrets and the future career path(20:52) Excitement for industry growth, new listeners, and brand creativity(22:57) Examples of creative brand podcastingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz…“I do think there is a lot of money in working for a brand, whether it’s a corporate or whatever, but I really think that’s where it is”“76% of them prioritize like thought leadership as what their podcasts will provide for you to eventually kind of think over time”“You should be looking for a need and you should be filling that need.”“I have a passion for the subject matter in general and trying to find a way to tell that story.”“The secret to great audience development and to making a great show is labor.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Where's the best place to make money in podcasting in 2025?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dane Cardiel, Founder and Publisher of Good Tape, about the business, culture, and ethics of the podcasting industry. Dane shares his "two answers" to the question of where the money is, the crucial role of community, and his journey from being the first non-CTO employee at Simplecast to launching a physical print magazine dedicated to the craft of audio.As he puts it: “Podcasting... really is one of the only mediums a talent can actually have ownership over and really control their voice, their distribution, their monetization, sort of the full stack that other mediums really don't have any access to.”Here are some insightful moments within the episode:• Where Dane Cardiel believes the money is in podcasting—with a hot take and a deep dive into community-building.• The "Autonomous" and "Participatory" community quadrants where financial success is located.• The ethics and responsibility of the podcast medium, which allows talent to control their voice, distribution, and monetization.• Dane's journey from being the first non-CTO employee at Simplecast to a VP role in ad tech.• The one key mistake Dane observed in ad sales: the widespread lack of audience surveys.• Why Good Tape, a physical magazine, was created to elevate cultural coverage and shift the industry to be more active in the broader "creator economy."Dane Cardiel is the Founder and Publisher of Good Tape, an independent print magazine and creative studio dedicated to the craft and culture of podcasting. He previously held leadership positions at several podcast companies, including serving as VP of Creator Partnerships at Gumball and being an early employee at Simplecast.Connect with Dane on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danecardiel/Check out Dane's write up, Cashing In On Podcast Communities: https://offtherecrd.substack.com/p/cashing-in-on-podcast-communitiesEpisode Chapters(00:00) The tea is hot(01:07) Welcome to Podbiz & Introducing Dane Cardiel(01:37) Where is the money in podcasting?(02:18) The second answer: Community(03:09) Dane's community chart and quadrants(04:58) Discussing Good Tape and Dane's advocacy(08:29) Podcasting as a double-edged sword and medium ownership(11:07) "We're going to grow old together" and shared values in the industry  (16:40) Dane's career trajectory: Simplecast  (18:46) Selling air: the enterprise side of Simplecast  (21:51) Transition to ad tech: Headgum and Gumball  (23:38) What podcast categories sell in ad tech  (25:41) The biggest learning in ad sales: the lack of audience surveys  (30:42) The Good Tape journey  (35:12) Key moves and mindset: producers and 'business-leaning' talent  (37:00) The difficulties in the industry (layoffs, competition)  (39:03) The future of audio-only and community  (45:16) If starting over, what Dane would do differently  (45:36) What Dane is most excited about: Creator EconomySome Additional PodBiz Buzz…“The ability to influence that ability to oscillate that that shared equilibrium of values like, to a center that I feel more comfortable with... that feels like it's within my control.”“We have to be in this like new entertainment space and be a contributor to that conversation, not just a passive recipient of it.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it really take to build a business that lasts in podcasting?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan talk with Randi P’Pool, Founder and CEO of P’Pool Media, about the realities of leading a modern media agency — from scaling teams and navigating client departures to redefining what creative success actually looks like. Randi shares lessons from two decades in broadcast and marketing and the shift from corporate structures to the agility of podcasting. It’s a candid look at leadership, adaptation, and what happens when you build a business that reflects the people behind it.As she puts it:“You have to learn to pivot. If something isn’t working, stop trying to force it to look like success.”Here are some insightful moments within the episode:• Why adaptability is the key to long-term success in podcast marketing• How to recover when a major client leaves — and what it teaches you about leadership• Why authenticity and consistency still outperform “corporate buzzword speak”• The shift from broadcast culture to agile, creator-led podcasting• How fractional teams and partnerships can scale creative businesses• The emotional side of entrepreneurship and protecting your confidence• What the future of podcast marketing looks like for agencies and creators alikeRandi P’Pool is the Founder and CEO of P’Pool Media, a full-service marketing agency working with B2B and B2C podcast companies. With over twenty years of experience in media, she helps creators, networks, and brands build marketing strategies that connect, convert, and sustain. Randi’s work bridges traditional broadcast expertise with the adaptability of today’s podcast industry, emphasizing creative integrity and measurable results.Connect with Randi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randi-p-pool-75872520/Episode Chapters(00:00) Opening | Defining the real business of podcast marketing(02:14) From corporate broadcasting to entrepreneurship | Randi’s leap into ownership(06:42) Strategy over spin | Finding the right message for the right audience(09:22) Authenticity in content | Why “busy buzzword speak” doesn’t work(10:02) Leadership lessons | Building and managing a business that scales(17:53) Fractional teams | How integration keeps clients growing(19:51) The never-off entrepreneur | Boundaries and balance in creative work(20:43) Learning from loss | Navigating client departures with perspective(23:13) The future of podcast marketing | Why evolution keeps it excitingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz…“It’s devastating not only to your ego but financially when a client leaves. You have to learn to take those in stride.”“People are going to say no. Knowing that things happen at the right time has been the biggest mindset shift.”“I’m a Leo and I like to be my own boss.”“You have to learn to pivot. If something isn’t working, stop trying to force it to look like success.”“Look at the stage. We’re all friends. That’s the best part of this industry.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.