Drowned in Sound

"My brothers are 20 and they're always like 'we are so cooked.' And I'm just like no we're not. There's hope but you just gotta believe, you gotta believe in something." That quote accidentally captures Music Declares Emergency's strategic shift from awareness to action. After five years of "No Music On A Dead Planet" the Hope Over Fear campaign is building action hubs in grassroots venues - real physical spaces where fans, artists, and local communities organize around the climate crisis. In this episode, PVA front-person and MDE Campaigns Manager Ella Harris explains how the campaign works, why music fandom is inherently empathetic practice that translates to organizing power, and how she balances making escapist art (PVA's intimate new album No More Like This) with building climate infrastructure. The conversation tackles touring economics (trains cost £150, flights are just £30), why even festival headliners need day jobs, artists' fear of speaking out, and what £500 million in carbon offset funds could actually fix if redirected toward infrastructure. This is about hope over fear. Real-life organizing over digital despair. Infrastructure over individual guilt. This podcast is brought to you in partnership with Qobuz, the ethical music streaming platform. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial at qobuz.com/dis.  Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Introduction: No music on a dead planet 02:10 – Wearing multiple hats: PVA and Music Declares Emergency 05:00 – Music fandom as an empathetic practice 07:30 – From merch to movement 10:45 – Action hubs and the future of grassroots venues 15:30 – Touring economics, energy costs, and structural limits 19:00 – Artists, activism, and the fear of speaking out 24:30 – Nature, creativity, and why hope needs infrastructure 31:00 – What £500 million could fix in the music ecosystem 35:00 – AI, empathy, and what human music still does best 38:30 – Outro: Depth, not breadth Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Music Declares Emergency - Learn more about the No Music On A Dead Planet movement, the Hope Over Fear campaign, and how artists, industry, and fans can get involved. Music Venue Trust - Support and protect the UK’s grassroots venues The Green Rider - Ideas for ‘green’ clauses for inclusion as part of your tech or hospitality riders. Hope Over Fear Campaign - The campaign funding real-world action hubs in grassroots venues, focused on collective climate action and community organising. No Music On A Dead Planet - The global artist-led movement connecting music, fandom, and climate justice. About the host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication championing underground and independent artists since 2000. DiS explores how music fans discover their collective power through journalism, podcasts, and community organizing. Related episodes: - Tori Tsui: "How Music Fans Became Climate Activists" (Brian Eno, Billie Eilish, Fossil Fuel Treaty) - Giles Bidder: "Why Festival Headliners Still Need Part-Time Jobs" (101 Part Time Jobs, touring economics) - EarthSonic Live: Music, ecology, and collective action from Manchester Museum About Ella Harris: Ella Harris is the front-person and vocalist of London post-punk/electronic trio PVA, whose second album 'No More Like This' (produced by Kwake Bass) explores desire, devotion, and emotional indentation through trip-hop-influenced soundscapes.  As Campaigns Manager for Music Declares Emergency, she leads the Hope Over Fear campaign, establishing action hubs in grassroots venues across the UK and Ireland. Previously, she founded Group Therapy Collective during lockdown, releasing two compilations featuring Yard Act, Mandy Indiana, and others to raise funds for Help Musicians, Black Minds Matter, and Music Venue Trust. Guest links: - PVA on Bandcamp: https://pvaareok.bandcamp.com - PVA on Instagram: @pva_are_ok - Ella Harris on Instagram: @lime.zoda

Many who otherwise couldn't afford a £40 show, let alone a £300 festival ticket, have accessed gigs because of a new initiative called The Ticket Bank. In this episode, DiS founder Sean Adams meets Jack from Tickets for Good and The Ticket Bank to understand how they're redistributing access to live music. From seeing empty seats at the O2 to a partnership with Barnardo's, followed by offering tickets to NHS workers, teachers, and carers, Jack explains how the infrastructure works, who it serves, and why more artists and venues need to get involved. The conversation covers touring economics, dynamic pricing myths, and the uncomfortable reality that an industry generating billions still prices out the people who need culture most. If you're singing about inequality, why would you only perform for those who can afford it? It’s an inspiring chat about who builds community, how change happens, and who the next generation of artists might not be without projects like this. This podcast is brought to you in partnership with Qobuz, the ethical music streaming platform. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial at qobuz.com/dis.  This week's companion playlist features calm, ambient music from the community's picks of the best post-classical, drone, and ambient records. Two hours of peaceful listening to help you through the fog.  Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Get Involved For artists, promoters, managers, venues: Contact Jack directly to discuss partnerships Email: jack@theticketbank.org  For eligible audiences: Register via Tickets for Good or the Ticket Bank. New events added daily around 9am. Tickets for Good: https://ticketsforgood.co.uk Ticket Bank: https://theticketbank.org For everyone else: Share this episode with musicians, venues, and local promoters Tag artists in the comments and ask if they've heard of the Ticket Bank Send to your MP or local council about arts access If you know someone who might qualify, subtly share the links Continue the Conversation Join the Drowned in Sound community to discuss this episode http://community.drownedinsound.com  Subscribe to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly essays, interviews, and insights exploring music, culture, and collective power. http://drownedinsound.org  Links & Resources Tickets for Good: https://ticketsforgood.co.uk  Ticket Bank: https://theticketbank.org  Music Venue Trust: https://www.musicvenuetrust.com Chapters 00:00 - Introduction: Why access to live music matters 01:20 - Empty seats at the O2: The origins of Tickets for Good 05:10 - Cost-of-living tickets and breaking industry stigma 07:00 - From Tickets for Good to the Ticket Bank 12:00 - How eligibility and verification work 16:00 - Touring economics and the dynamic pricing myth 18:15 - How artists, promoters, and managers can help 22:15 - Mental health, social prescribing, and cultural value 24:45 - What £500 million could fix 27:15 - Grassroots venues and inspiring the next generation 31:00 - How to register, donate tickets, or get involved 33:30 - Outro: Your mission

Picking up where Part 1 left off, DiS returns to its conversation with Giles Bidder. Not to talk about how musicians survive, but about how stories travel, how listeners connect and what it really takes to build a music podcast in 2026. In this second instalment, Sean Adams turns the lens on the medium itself (yes, we’ve gone meta). Drawing on nearly 600 episodes of 101 Part Time Jobs, Giles reflects on the craft of interviewing, the ethics of editing, and why the best conversations often need space to breathe. This is less about hustle and more about care: how to hold people well, how to listen properly, and how to build trust over time. The conversation ranges from standout episodes and “slow-burn” storytelling to what it feels like to make work that actually helps people navigate their lives. Giles speaks openly about bad bosses, fear-based workplaces, and the quiet anger that fuels his show (as well as the small, human moments that make it worthwhile). A love for radio runs through this episode: Giles describes producing Shaun Keaveny’s Community Garden Radio as a lesson in warmth, humour, and emotional intelligence on air. From there, the pair broaden out into why podcasts have become such a powerful space for connection, especially for people stuck in boring jobs, long commutes, or lonely routines. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Intro 01:30 - Standout episodes and “slow-burn” editing 03:20 - When to cut vs when to let a story breathe 05:10 - What makes a “good” episode in hindsight 07:00 - Work gaffs, embarrassment, and shared vulnerability 12:00 - Bad bosses, anger, and fear-based workplaces 14:00 - Why people are quietly quitting 18:00 - Why podcasts work on boring journeys 21:00 - Community Garden Radio and the art of warmth 22:30 - What great broadcasting feels like 24:00 - Power, responsibility, and attention 25:30 - Why trust matters more than reach 27:00 - Outro Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. From scout-hut gigs to the economics of touring, DiS sits down with Giles Bidder - host of 101 Part Time Jobs for an unsentimental look at how creative lives are actually sustained today. In this first instalment, Sean Adams talks to one of the UK’s most quietly compelling broadcasters about the hidden labour behind music culture. Over nearly 600 episodes, Bidder has built one of the most humane music podcasts around, asking artists, writers, and comedians not about their success but about the jobs they’ve done to survive. Giles explains how 101 Part Time Jobs emerged as both portfolio and refuge: a way to make sense of a patchwork career, rediscover belonging, and document how people navigate a system that rarely works in their favour. Along the way, the conversation takes in touring economics, merch, sync, class, and why even bands who play the Roundhouse still need “normal jobs. What emerges is a stark but generous thesis: music is socially priceless and economically precarious. Until that gap closes, culture will continue to run on grit, goodwill, and vast amounts of invisible labour. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Chapters 00:00 - Intro  01:26 - Sitting in the “other chair”: Giles as guest, not host 04:05 - Ska/punk origins, micro-prejudices, and how scenes teach you 07:45 - Why 101 Part Time Jobs began: Universal Credit, lockdown, stability 08:55 - Human curation and introducing unknown artists 11:25 - The myth of “making it”: Roundhouse bands with day jobs 13:55 - Why meaningful art can still leave artists broke 16:10 - Music is priceless but paid in grains of pennies 18:20 - Gilla Band, Lambrini Girls, and invisible cultural impact 19:25 - Class, rent, and the radical idea of simply covering your life 20:15 - Why customer-facing jobs matter (merch, coffee shops, respect) 23:55 - Hard work, timing, and opportunity 25:20 - Standout episodes and the “slow-burn” edit 29:10 - Bad bosses, anger, and fear-based workplaces 31:55 - Power, responsibility, and attention in podcasting 44:07 - The importance of having your own project and taking the time 46:55 - Outro Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: 101 Part Time Jobs (Giles Bidder)  Community Garden Radio (Shaun Keaveny)  Music Venue Trust - protecting grassroots venues  Gilla Band  Lambrini Girls  Soho Radio Reading Festival  

From scout-hut gigs to the economics of touring, DiS sits down with Giles Bidder - host of 101 Part Time Jobs for an unsentimental look at how creative lives are actually sustained today. In this first instalment, Sean Adams talks to one of the UK’s most quietly compelling broadcasters about the hidden labour behind music culture. Over nearly 600 episodes, Bidder has built one of the most humane music podcasts around, asking artists, writers, and comedians not about their success but about the jobs they’ve done to survive. Giles explains how 101 Part Time Jobs emerged as both portfolio and refuge: a way to make sense of a patchwork career, rediscover belonging, and document how people navigate a system that rarely works in their favour. Along the way, the conversation takes in touring economics, merch, sync, class, and why even bands who play the Roundhouse still need “normal jobs.” What emerges is a stark but generous thesis: music is socially priceless and economically precarious. Until that gap closes, culture will continue to run on grit, goodwill, and vast amounts of invisible labour. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Intro  01:26 - Sitting in the “other chair”: Giles as guest, not host 04:05 - Ska/punk origins, micro-prejudices, and how scenes teach you 07:45 - Why 101 Part Time Jobs began: Universal Credit, lockdown, stability 08:55 - Human curation and introducing unknown artists 11:25 - The myth of “making it”: Roundhouse bands with day jobs 13:55 - Why meaningful art can still leave artists broke 16:10 - Music is priceless but paid in grains of pennies 18:20 - Gilla Band, Lambrini Girls, and invisible cultural impact 19:25 - Class, rent, and the radical idea of simply covering your life 20:15 - Why customer-facing jobs matter (merch, coffee shops, respect) 23:55 - Hard work, timing, and opportunity 25:20 - Standout episodes and the “slow-burn” edit 29:10 - Bad bosses, anger, and fear-based workplaces 31:55 - Power, responsibility, and attention in podcasting Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources 101 Part Time Jobs (Giles Bidder)  Community Garden Radio (Shaun Keaveny)  Music Venue Trust - protecting grassroots venues  Gilla Band  Lambrini Girls  Soho Radio Reading Festival

Fresh from touring stadiums with Depeche Mode, DiS meets electronic music pioneer to discuss her past, the present, and the future of music. This is part of Drowned in Sound’s 25th anniversary series in which Sean Adams continues the anniversary series by sits down with some of our favourite acts of the past quarter century. Kelly Lee Owens is very much one of those artists, who has featured in DiS year end lists and awards and playlists since releasing her debut EP. The episode starts on the education that comes from working in record shops and becomes a wide-ranging conversation about how music communities form, fracture, and sometimes regenerate. Moving across North Wales to London basements, from pressing white labels by hand to playing for 75,000 people with Depeche Mode, Kelly Lee Owens traces a path through all corners of music: the shops, venues, teachers, collectives, community centres, and accidental mentors that shaped her, her music, and her career. Sean and Kelly chat about their working class roots, the discipline of DJing as storytelling, and the economics of grassroots music. Kelly Lee Owens reflects on why she now deliberately plays shows in places artists rarely go, why she sees music as a form of healing as much as entertainment and why community matters more than scale. If there’s a thread running through it all…it’s this: music isn’t a product or a pipeline. It’s a relationship. And like any relationship, it needs time, space, and care to survive. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 02:00 - Record shops as education and community 05:05 - Obsession, discovery, and how taste is formed 10:00 - The early 2010s shift: risk, hedonism, and electronic culture 13:05 - DIY culture, SoundCloud, and pressing your own records 15:00 - Human curation vs automation and playlists 22:10 - Playing huge rooms: Depeche Mode, confidence, and scale 26:05 - Returning to small places: community shows and access 29:00 - Grassroots collapse, class, and structural inequality 32:10 - What £500 million could fix in music culture 42:05 - Music as healing, frequency, and emotional space 48:25 - The future: rebuilding value, community, and care 50:15 - Outro Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Music Venue Trust — protecting grassroots venues https://www.musicvenuetrust.com David Byrne — How Music Works https://davidbyrne.com/books/how-music-works Fabric London — venue history and cultural importance https://www.fabriclondon.com Piccadilly Records (Manchester) https://www.piccadillyrecords.com Pure Groove Records (London) https://puregroove.co.uk Kelly Lee Owens https://kellyleeowens.com Stop Making Sense — Talking Heads https://www.talkingheadsofficial.com Cocteau Twins https://cocteautwins.com The Knife — Silent Shout https://theknife.net Warehouse Project (Manchester) https://www.thewarehouseproject.com Neuadd Ogwen / Bethesda community venue https://neuaddogwen.com

So what will 2026 sound like? In this episode, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams and journalist Emma Wilkes look into their crystal balls (and the release schedules).  Tips on which artists should break through and the corporate barriers they’ll need to navigate. Beyond tipping season, we explore the strange absence of shared musical moments, the growing anxiety around AI-generated music, the slow unravelling of trust in big tech platforms, and whether changes to ticketing, touring, and grassroots funding might start to rebalance power (and money) back towards scenes. There are also predictions - some cautious, some hopeful, some deliberately ridiculous. This episode tries to map the forces underneath the surface…the things that will shape what we hear, how we find it, and what it means to care about music in the first place. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction: What will music be like in 2026? 02:30 - New bands, tipping season, and who breaks through next 06:50 - Scenes, genres, and the collapse of old categories 12:00 - Cities as culture: Leeds, Liverpool, Brighton, Beirut 16:40 - Resilience, mental health, and sustaining music ecosystems 20:40 - Grassroots levies, touring economics, and venue survival 26:00 - Ticketing, regulation, and the slow response to abuse 28:20 - AI, platforms, and the erosion of trust 30:30 - Predictions: returns, collaborations, and surprise records 35:20 - Tech futures, headphones, and augmented concerts 38:50 - Hope, uncertainty, and what comes next Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: FanFair Alliance - ticketing transparency and anti-touting campaigning Music Venue Trust - grassroots venue support and levy campaigning UK Government - ticket resale reform & consultation Action Fraud -  advice on ticket scams and resale fraud  Subvert - artist / label-owned music platform Bandcamp - direct-to-fan model and editorial writing The Jump - Shirley Manson's podcast Vespertine - Björk's podcast

Season 5, Episode 1: What if swifts sound like Slipknot? What are flying rivers? And how do you give water a voice? This New Year special takes you backstage at EarthSonic Live, where over 3,000 people gathered at Manchester Museum to explore how music and nature sounds can help us reconnect with the planet and drive real climate action. Recorded across a single extraordinary day in November 2025, this episode captures conversations with conservationists protecting endangered species, climate activists working with Brian Eno and Billie Eilish, and Brazilian artists who travelled from Belém where the performed at COP30. From sampling frogs in the museum's Vivarium with Japanese composer Hinako Omori to learning about the UK's temperate rainforests (yes, really!), EarthSonic Live had it all. In the first episode of 2026, you'll hear from RSPB conservationists Annabel Rushton and Roshni Parmar-Hill about why swifts are disappearing and what red squirrels tell us about biodiversity loss. Climate activist Tori Tsui shares how music became central to her campaigning. Hannah Overton from Warp Records explains more about the event. And we meet four members of FLOW, female artists from three continents to reflect on their journey to Belém for COP30, where they turned droughts, floods, and flying rivers into hip-hop, spoken word, and song. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at qobuz.com/dis. Continue the Conversation: Join the discussion on the Drowned in Sound forums and share your thoughts on music, nature, and climate action. Subscribe: Get the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights into music, culture, and building a fairer industry. Links & Resources: Tori Tsui - Climate activist and author of "It's Not Just You: How to Navigate Eco-Anxiety and the Climate Crisis" EarthSonic Live - Event details and future dates Takkuuk - Inside Bicep's Arctic Masterpiece (DiS article) Full Tori Tsui Interview - Climate justice and music with Brian Eno & Billie Eilish RSPB - Conservation and volunteering opportunities Wildhoarse Water - RSPB nature reserve in the Lake District with UK temperate rainforest In Place of War - Arts organization for social change Manchester Museum Vivarium - Home to the frogs sampled during workshops Sohini Alam - British-Bangladeshi composer and vocalist Keila - Brazilian singer from Gang do Eletro, FLOW artist Bebé Salvego - Brazilian jazz vocalist, FLOW artist Jaloo - Brazilian gender-fluid artist and producer, FLOW artist Hinako Omori - Japanese artist and composer Wellcome Trust - Event partner Arts Council England - Event partner Ableton - Event partner and workshop provider About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication championing underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. This episode was completely self-produced by Sean Adams, recorded on location at Manchester Museum. Thanks to Shure for providing the mics to record this special episode.

What were the big music news stories of the year? In part 1 we charted the pressures building across music’s foundations and now Part 2 turns to the systems that decide who gets paid, who gets heard, and who gets left behind. Drowned in Sound’s founder Sean Adams and music journalist Emma Wilkes count down stories #3, #2 and #1 -  from the strange feeling that there wasn’t really a song of the summer at all, to solidarity protest movements filled with eloquent musicians, and the growing wave of artists turning their backs on Spotify. They examine how streaming payouts continue to shrink for artists, even as platforms post record profits public conversations around alternatives, and ethics (war tech?! ICE ads?! Joe Rogan?!) turned into artist boycotts.  The biggest music stories share one consistent theme: who holds the power, and who gets to challenge it? The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 02:00 - Story #3: Was there a ‘song of the summer? 01:10 - Rage, memes, and culture reflecting the moment 03:42 - Sofia Isella and the power of feminine rage 06:20 - Nova Twins, activism, and grassroots credibility 08:32 - Mannequin Pussy and what rock should stand for 09:29 - Story #2 begins: protest movements in music 11:02 - Boycotts, divestment, and corporate accountability 13:02 - Solidarity, Ireland, Palestine, and shared histories 16:12 - Culture as a battleground 29:26 - Story #1 begins: the Spotify exodus 32:13 - Streaming power, ethics, and alternatives 36:16 - Hope, resistance, and building something better 42:22 - Outro Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Switched On Pop - Why the Song of the Summer Is Disappearing No Music for Genocide – Artist Boycott Campaign NME – Paramore & Hayley Williams Join No Music for Genocide Resident Advisor Podcast – Sama’ Abdulhadi Together for Palestine – Yara Eid Concert Spotify Loud & Clear Report Music Publishers Begin Spotify Podcast Takedowns (Variety) Spotify Payola Lawsuit Explained (Music Business Worldwide) Cut Off the Spigot – Streaming Economics Campaign Mozilla Foundation – The Post-Naive Internet Era

What were the biggest stories in music this year?  No, not the releases or the hype cycles but the forces reshaping how music is made, played, toured, and valued. In Part 1 of Drowned in Sound’s Stories of the Year, Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes count down stories #5 and #4, starting with a contradiction that defined 2025: record-breaking mega-gigs and billion-pound industry headlines on one side, and a grassroots ecosystem under existential pressure on the other. They talk through the “mega gig” (stadium shows, park festivals, corporate-backed cultural events) and also ask what their success is hiding. Taylor Swift-level touring power continues to drive economic growth but artists at every other level are cancelling tours. What is the purpose of growth if the foundations are cracking? From there, the conversation turns to AI. A now present-day force that is reshaping music. This is the year artificial intelligence stopped being theoretical and started demanding political, legal, and cultural responses. Stay tuned for Part 2 of the countdown. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 01:15 - Story #5 begins: mega gigs vs grassroots 02:10 - What defines a “mega gig” now? 04:11 - £8bn industry headlines vs lived reality 06:26 - Taylor Swift, scale, and monopoly economics 07:18 - Employment figures and the invisible labour of music 08:43 - Grassroots venues as cultural homes 09:32 - Inequality, wealth concentration, and responsibility 13:22 - How the industry decides who gets tipped 16:01 - Why discovery systems feel broken 19:30 - Story #4 begins: artificial intelligence enters music 23:19 - Consent, transparency, and “human-made” music 28:30 - Power, control, and social isolation 35:30 - Outro Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: UK Music – This Is Music Report (Industry Growth Context) Competition & Markets Authority – Secondary Ticketing Investigations BBC – Ticket Scams and Secondary Resale Issues Fan-Led Review of Music – UK Parliament Music Fans Voice – Fan Campaigning for Fair Ticketing Independent Venue Community Music Venue Trust Youth Music – Rescue the Roots Campaign AI-Generated Music Appearing on Artist Profiles  Oneohtrix Point Never is searching for soul in the slop (Dazed) UK Music on AI Training Data and Copyright

It’s that time again: lists, arguments, consensus (or lack of it). So.. how do we choose an ultimate “Album of the Year’? In this episode, Emma Wilkes joins Sean Adams to talk through their favourite albums of 2025. No this is not the definitive list, not the ‘right’ list, just the stuff that has stuck, been obsessed over, demanded repeat listens, or just briefly rearranged their internal wiring. They also talk openly about the collapse of monoculture, the impossibility of ‘keeping up’, and why criticism still matters amongst the fractured scenes, algorithmic bubbles, and overwhelming volume of new music to choose from. This is not so much a ranked list and more as two very online music obsessives trying to map a year that refuses to be summarised. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Hayley Williams and the case for a bold AOTY 01:00 – Emma’s pick: The Callous Daoboys and joyful heaviness 04:00 – Grassroots venues, noise scenes, and Atlanta’s rise 06:30 – Introducing Emma Wilkes: rock, metal & Kerrang! 09:00 – Why heavy music needs catharsis, humour, and chaos 12:00 – Hardcore’s new era and the crossover wave 14:00 – The collapse of monoculture in 2025 16:00 – Discovery fatigue and the algorithm problem 18:30 – Model/Actriz, grief albums, and theatrical noise 22:00 – Heartworms and the art of gothic storytelling 24:00 – Ska, cowbells, and unexpected nostalgia 27:00 – Honourable mentions: Lambrini Girls, Wolf Alice, Nova Twins 30:00 – Hayley Williams’ political arc and southern identity 32:00 – Easter eggs, vocal shifts, and how fans decode albums 34:00 – Allyship, perspective, and storytelling in pop 35:00 – Production notes: Efterklang, Daniel James & sonic detail 37:00 – Why music criticism still matters 39:00 – Emma’s Top 10: heavy, emotional, ambitious 42:00 – Sean’s curveballs: Postcards, DARKSIDE & more 45:00 – So… who really made Album of the Year? Albums mentioned: Hayley Williams - Ego Death at a Bachelorette Party The Callous Daoboys - I Don't Want to See You in Heaven Backxwash - Only Dust Remains Kathryn Joseph - We Were Made Prey FKA twigs - Eusexua Afterglow Ethel Cain - Perverts Model/Actriz - Pirouette Alan Sparhawk - With Trampled by Turtles Heartworms - Glutton for Punishment Die Spitz ‧ Something to Consume Little Simz - Lotus Lily Allen - West End Girl The Mynabirds - It's Okay To Go Back If You Keep Moving Forward Wolf Alice - The Clearing Turnstile - Never Enough Addison Rae - Addison Sharon Van Etten - Sharon Van Etten & The Attachment Theory Marissa Nadler - New Radiations Nova Twins - Parasites & Butterflies Anna von Hausswolff - Iconoclasts Sudan Archives - The BPM Horsegirl - Phonetics On and On JADE - THAT'S SHOWBIZ BABY! Dave - The Boy Who Played the Harp Garbage - Let All That We Imagine Be the Light Scowl - Are We All Angels Postcards - Ripe DARKSIDE - Nothing Jools - Violent Delights Witch Fever - Fevereaten Deafheaven - Lonely People with Power Lambrini Girls - Who Let The Dogs Out Sprints - All That Is Over Pinkshift - Earthkeeper Creeper - Sanguivore II: Mistress of Death Melody’s Echo Chamber - Unclouded  HEALTH - CONFLICT DLC Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.

What does it actually mean to be a musician in an economy built for creators and why does it feel like the workload keeps growing while the rewards shrink? In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams is joined by Hanna Kahlert from MIDiA Research, whose work sits at the intersection of music, platforms, and the wider creator economy. Drawing on recent research into artists’ working lives, they explore why musicians increasingly face the same pressures as YouTubers and streamers without a lot of the same tools, protections, or paths to sustainability. They talk about the time sink of constant content creation, the distortion of success metrics, and how discovery has become both easier and more exhausting than ever. This includes: “lean back” listening,  “lean through” fandom whilst the conversation reframes what engagement really looks like and why likes, views, and viral moments so often fail to translate into income or longevity. As streaming platforms push endless discovery and passive consumption, the duo ask hard questions about value, ownership, and what gets lost when music is treated as content and not an integral part of culture. The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show. Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 - Why musicians are being reframed as “creators” 05:20 - The problem with monetisation, takedowns, and copyright 12:10 - Lean back, lean in, and what “lean through” really means 20:00 - Discovery, algorithms, and the illusion of reach 28:00 - Are superfans real - and what actually makes a fan? 36:10 - Scenes, culture, and what’s been lost in platformisation 44:30 - AI, ownership, and the coming copyright reckoning 52:30 - The “dark forest” internet and the return of small spaces 59:30 - What the next 25 years of music might look like Continue the Conversation:  Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Cross Platform Success Using Social Platforms to Build Audience and Fandom MIDiA Research Hanna Kahlert – MIDiA Research Spotify Loud & Clear Report Music Publishers Begin Spotify Podcast Takedowns (Variety)

82% of music fans want to stop climate breakdown but only 3% know what to do. Climate activist Tori Tsui reveals how Billie Eilish, Brian Eno, and Massive Attack are building the infrastructure to turn that care into action. Recorded backstage at EarthSonic Live in Manchester, this conversation bridges the gap between wanting to help the planet and knowing how. Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams meets Tori Tsui, the climate justice activist, author of "It's Not Just You," and senior advisor to the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. Tori works with Brian Eno's EarthPercent and Billie Eilish's Overheated climate conferences. IN THIS EPISODE: • How Tori got Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham to sign the Fossil Fuel Treaty before introducing Massive Attack • What streaming platforms are hiding about their energy use • Why 94% of some carbon credits are phantom scams with no climate benefit • How green touring saves artists money • The Chris Martin/Coldplay connection • What music fans can actually do (beyond guilt) Organizations mentioned include: • Fossil Fuel Treaty: https://fossilfueltreaty.org  • EarthPercent (Brian Eno): https://earthpercent.org  • Billie's Overheated: https://www.imoverheated.com  • Green touring: https://www.soliphilia.co.uk/ Read Tori's book "It's Not Just You" https://www.toritsui.com/  Follow Tori: Instagram @tori_tsui_ ABOUT DROWNED IN SOUND: Independent music journalism exploring how music catalyzes systemic change. Newsletter: https://drownedinsound.org  Recorded at EarthSonic Live, Manchester Museum, November 2024. #ClimateChange #MusicIndustry #BillieEilish #BrianEno #MassiveAttack #ClimateActivism #Podcast

The UK Government have announced a landmark decision: ticket resale above face value is to be made illegal, backed by strict limits on service fees and new enforcement powers. After decades of music fans being fleeced by industrial-scale touting, could this be the turning point? In this special episode, the FanFair Alliance’s Adam Webb (a central figure in the long-running campaign against exploitative secondary ticketing) joins Sean Adams to unpack the announcement, its implications, and what it means for fans, artists, venues, and the future of the live industry. Webb lays out how the crisis unfolded, with resale platforms enabling huge mark-ups that now cost fans an estimated £112 million a year. They trace the steady pressure that’s been building for years: Trading Standards investigations, CMA interventions, tabloid exposés, Ed Sheeran’s court cases, and sustained evidence-gathering by managers, artists, unions, and campaigners. Together, Adam and Sean explore the possibilities opened up by this week’s announcement and ask the simple question: what happens when fairness is restored? And will these reforms be delivered quickly enough to stop another cycle of exploitation? Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – The scale of the problem: how industrialised touting took hold 05:10 – Viagogo, StubHub, and the ecosystem that lets abuse thrive 10:45 – The £112 million question: super-touts, bots, and business models 16:20 – Ed Sheeran, prosecutions, and the moment artists pushed back 22:40 – Why enforcement has failed — and what must change 29:15 – Politics, lobbying, and the slow road to reform 36:00 – Fans, consent, and the ethics of the live economy 41:30 – What a fair ticketing future could look like Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources Fan-Led Review of Music: Parliamentary Inquiry into Ticketing Reform https://committees.parliament.uk/work/9161/fanled-review-of-music/ Music Fans Voice: Campaigning for Fair Ticketing and Fan Rights https://musicfansvoice.uk/ Which? – Stop Fleecing Fans: Ending Rip-Off Ticket Resale https://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/stop-fleecing-fans Robert Smith: 7,000 Cure Tickets Cancelled on Secondary Sites https://accessaa.co.uk/robert-smith-says-7000-the-cure-tickets-have-been-cancelled-on-secondary-resale-websites/ FanFair Alliance: Guide to Buying Tickets Safely https://fanfairalliance.org/resources/ CMA Investigation: Enforcement Action on Secondary Ticketing https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/secondary-ticketing STAR: The UK’s Ticketing Standards and Consumer Protection Body https://www.star.org.uk/ Ed Sheeran’s Legal Battle Against Ticket Touts (BBC) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47620979 Your Consumer Protection Rights (Gov.uk) https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights Adam Webb – Updates and Advocacy on Ticketing Reform https://twitter.com/webboideas

How can the UK music industry be both in crisis and booming? In 2024, the sector was worth a record £8 billion to the UK economy but at the same time, grassroots venues are closing, artists are struggling to tour, and AI threatens to steal musicians’ work for the profit of broligarchs. In this week’s episode, Sean Adams speaks with Tom Kiehl, CEO of UK Music, about the findings in the organisation’s brand new annual report This Is Music 2025. Together they unpack the contradictions of a sector growing on paper but straining at its foundations from slowing post-pandemic growth and the fight for fair AI regulation, to the obstacles making it harder for new artists breaking through. With reflections on Brexit’s lasting damage, AI’s issues with consent, and a new £1 grassroots levy, it’s a revealing look at an industry at a crossroads. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – The £8 Billion Paradox: Growth vs Crisis 03:30 – Who UK Music Represents and What It Does 07:30 – File-Sharing to AI: The Evolution of Rights Battles 13:30 – “Pro-Innovation” or Anti-Artist? AI and Copyright in 2025 18:30 – Levies, Inequality, and the Grassroots Squeeze 24:30 – Breaking Artists in a Post-Pandemic Landscape 29:30 – Rehearsal Spaces, Mentorship, and Missing Infrastructure 35:30 – Why Britain Needs a Music Export Office 41:30 – Ticketing Chaos, Regulation, and the Fan Experience 47:30 – What Fans Can Do: From Campaigns to Collective Power 52:30 – The Future of British Music: Soft Power and Survival Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources: Read UK Music’s This Is Music 2025 Report UK Music Official Website UK Music on Instagram Drowned in Sound Newsletter

How “sleazy” was Indie Sleaze, really - and was it ever a scene that Paul Smith of Maxïmo Park recognised himself in? At a time when the air was thick with lager and leather jackets, Smith was more inspired by art-school notebooks, Robert Wyatt, and the idea that pop could be poetry. In this conversation, the Maxïmo Park frontman joins Sean Adams who also lived through the era being retrospectively called “indie sleaze”, was at those early Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party and Libertines shows, released records by Metric and Kaiser Chiefs, etc.  In this conversation they revisit the making of Maxïmo Park’s Mercury-nominated debut and reflect on what it meant to be outsiders during Britain’s mid-2000s indie boom. Recorded for the album’s twentieth anniversary, the pair unpack the contradictions of that moment - art rock vs lad rock and sincerity vs posturing whilst tracing how those tensions still shape British guitar music today. From signing to Warp Records and headlining the NME Awards Tour alongside Arctic Monkeys, Mystery Jets and We Are Scientists, to the band’s art-school roots, working-class perspectives, and enduring faith in pop’s emotional truth, this is a deeply human glance back at the legacy of one of the era’s most literate frontmen. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Indie Sleaze, revisionism, and the myth of 2005 01:46 – Forming an art-school band and the noise scene that shaped them 08:30 – From experimental roots to pop hooks: defining the Maxïmo Park DNA 14:30 – Signing to Warp Records and finding a home for outsiders 20:30 – The whirlwind year: Top of the Pops, the NME Tour, and the cost of success 24:30 – Art rock, class, and being mislabeled “sleazy” 31:30 – The politics of pop and the poetry of the everyday 42:30 – Romance, resistance, and the belief that pop can still mean something Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Links & Resources Maxïmo Park Official Website ‘The Rise and Fall of Indie Sleaze’ - BBC Podcast 20th Anniversary Edition of A Certain Trigger Paul Smith & Rachel Unthank Collaborative Album

Live music is nothing without the fans. Generating £5.2 billion to the UK economy PA, employing over 210,000 people and building the careers of those who contribute over £4bn to the export of live music, there is no doubting the UKs reputation as the international home of live music and the birthplace of the festival industry. Every pound of this economic success comes from a fans pocket and the House of Commons Culture Media and Sport committee have decided it’s finally time to put them in the centre of decision making, with a fan led review of Live and Electronic Music. This review aims to champion the areas that work, safeguard the areas under threat and ensure that the health and growth of live music is fair and accessible to all. Recorded live at Sŵn Festival in Cardiff, Sean Adams introduces a special panel arranged as part of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s Fan-Led Review into Live Music and Electronic Music - a landmark inquiry bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country.  The discussion draws fascinating parallels between football and music, two cultures built on passion, loyalty, and community, yet often structured around systems that treat fans as consumers, not stakeholders. Panellists Chair – Sam Duckworth  With a recording artist career as Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly spanning 20 years, Sam has most recently been working with Music Venue Trust to advocate for greater fan input into Music industry decision making, co-founding the Music Fans Voice survey. Lord Kevin Brennan Lord Brennan is Chair of the Fan-Led Review of Live Music, on behalf of the Culture Media and Sport Committee. The Review is bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live and electronic music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country. The aim is to produce a report to the Government setting out the perspectives of fans based on survey responses, stakeholder meetings and public engagement events. Lord Brennan has held positions as a Government Minister, former Chair of the APPG on Music and was a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, which produced reports on ‘The future of music festivals’ and ‘The economics of music streaming’. He is also a performing musician. Dr Lucy Bennett – Lecturer at Cardiff University’s School of Journalism, Media and Culture Lucy is a leading academic voice on music fandom and popular music culture. She co-founded the Fan Studies Network, has consulted for YouTube, and delivered analysis for the Recording Academy/Grammys. Widely published, she also provides expert commentary for the BBC, The Guardian and The Washington Post. Her teaching spans Media Fandom and Popular Music, Media & Culture, and she recently worked on the Music Fans’ Voice Survey, amplifying live music audiences. Cathy Long – CEO of Aposto Having worked with 64 football clubs at the Premier League (spearheading safety and fan experience) , The FSA and co-author of the Accessible Stadia Guide, Cathy is one of English Football’s leading fan experts and a passionate and experienced advocate for Equality and Safety within the game. Julian Jenkins  Julian Jenkins is a seasoned sports executive and entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience in the  global sports industry. He has held senior leadership roles across football, licensing, and commercial development, helping to grow fan engagement, brand value, and international partnerships. Julian now lead multiple ventures spanning professional women’s football, AI-driven sports analytics, and creative IP development, blending his passion for sport, community, and innovation. His work focuses on building sustainable models that connect clubs, fans, and brands in more meaningful ways. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Continue the Conversation: Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode. Subscribe: Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance. Further Reading Fill in the fan-led review of Live & Electronic Music survey  Music Fan’s Voice Survey The Fan Led Review of Live Music – UK Parliament CMS Committee  Football Supporters’ Association 

What happens when the tech platforms care more about engagement and profits than music? DiS meets music & technology journalist Cherie Hu, the founder of Water & Music, who's spent years mapping how tech giants from Spotify's recommendation algorithms to the venture capital funding streaming platforms. She's built one of music's most essential research operations to help fans and artists understand who really benefits from the current system and how best to use the tech of tomorrow.. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters 00:00 – Introduction 03:20 – Defining practical futurism and collaborative research 05:40 – From Forbes freelancer to community builder 07:55 – The evolution of Water & Music's collaborative model 12:40 – What collaboration enables now vs. the past 17:25 – Music and media's parallel challenge 22:15 – Building relationships and networks in the attention economy 23:50 – Domain specialisation vs. generalist approach in a noisy media landscape 29:20 – Artists and founders engaging with Water & Music 31:40 – Evergreen content, catalog lessons, and growth strategies 37:25 – Community building fundamentals: patience, trust, and institutional memory 40:05 – Math, music, and creativity 42:10 – Defining what community means 43:30 – Sean's Outro Join the discussion in our community Subscribe to DiS newsletter Guest Links: Water & Music - Independent music industry research Cherie Hu About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, championing independent music since 2000. Through DiS, he maps music's future while supporting artists and fans building alternatives to platform control.

Nirvana, TikTok, analogue aesthetics, and virality don't usually go together. Meet the creator who is bucking all the trends. How do you build genuine community around music in an attention economy designed for extraction? What happens when Nirvana's DIY punk ethics meets TikTok algorithms? Can analog aesthetics and primary source research create alternatives to clickbait culture? This week, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams talks with Royce aka ShoshinBoy - the TikTok creator behind viral music history videos that blend VHS cameras, rotary phones, and deep cultural excavation. From viral Nirvana content (2 million views) to uncovering forgotten Cure folklore, his analog-meets-digital approach reveals how authentic passion can cut through algorithmic noise. Inspired by DIY punk rock culture, ShoshinBoy developed research methodology that prioritises primary sources and contemporary context over Wikipedia aggregation. His anti-gimmick gimmick - talking through vintage technology while analysing YouTube clips of Arctic Monkeys, The Clash, Pavement and many more - started as platform critique but evolved into genuine community building around shared musical mythology. The conversation explores creator economy extraction, the death of mysterious rockstars in parasocial media landscapes, and why nostalgia both preserves and destroys cultural memory. Most importantly, it reveals how DIY ethics can survive on corporate platforms when creators prioritise community service over algorithmic optimisation. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 04:30 – Defining journalism 08:37 – Everett True's book to TikTok virality 11:59 – The analog setup: Anti-gimmick philosophy 17:05 – Primary sources vs Wikipedia 24:11 – Creator economy critique 34:04 – Nostalgia as cultural force 42:15 – Alternative funding 45:04 – The future of musical mythology in algorithm-driven culture Quotable Moments: "I think that like. At its core, I just wanna be genuine and, and like I said, I'm only doing this 'cause it's fun and it's what I'm compelled to do anyways." [24:00] "I don't think the idea of selling out exists in the year 2023. Acknowledging the idea that just to even pay rent or, or exist as a creative online in the current economy is, is it's so difficult." [26:00] Continue the Conversation: Email sean@drownedinsound.org with your thoughts on DIY ethics in the creator economy Join the discussion in our community forum about preserving musical mythology Share your experiences building authentic community around music passion Guest Links: @shoshinboy on TikTok - Analog music history through VHS and telephone Shoshin Boy on Instagram Referenced in Episode: Everett True – Live Through This: American Rock In The 90s - The story of the grunge phenomenon by Everett True Careless Talk Costs Lives Magazine - Everett True's magazine mentioned Meta Label - Yancy Strickler's collective-focused creative platform Artist Corps - Creative collective experiment mentioned Simon Reynolds - Retromania - Book on nostalgia culture referenced About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. This evergreen episode of the DiS podcast was recorded in 2023 and explores how DIY punk ethics can survive and thrive in platform capitalism, revealing alternative paths for creators who prioritise community building over algorithmic extraction in the attention economy.

How do music journalists spot breakthrough artists before they become household names? What does it take to get leftfield artists like Zola Jesus into mainstream publications like Vogue? How can music journalists build trust that transforms both interviews and careers? This week, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams talks with Ilana Kaplan - the music editor at People Magazine and author of "Nora Ephron at the Movies" (Abrams Books, 2024). Following conversations about discovery and algorithms, this episode explores the craft of music journalism: how experienced writers develop taste, build industry relationships, and create the stories that shape how we discover music. From researching artists at the Barnes & Noble magazine racks to recognising Billie Eilish's potential at a Mercury Lounge show to creating the viral boygenius Brokeback Mountain-inspired cover stories for Alternative Press, Ilana's career journey reveals the human curation that algorithms can't replicate. The conversation covers discovery methods, editorial strategy, the changing definition of "alternative music," and why building trust with artists creates better journalism than aggressive questioning. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 04:30 – What journalism means in the misinformation age 08:37 – Ilana's career beginnings from SPIN intern to music obsessive 11:59 – Spotting stars early: the Billie Eilish gamble that paid off 17:05 – Getting Zola Jesus into Vogue: selling leftfield artists to mainstream editors 24:11 – What does 'alternative' actually mean? 25:07 – boygenius desert shoot: spending your own money for viral covers 34:04 – Blacklisted for honest reporting: when PR controls journalism 45:04 – The hope in innovation and how models are changing 53:22 – Sean's Outro Key Takeaways: Discovery requires human curation: The Hype Machine's organic blog aggregation created an outlet for excitement that algorithms can't replicate Trust transforms journalism: Giving artists space to be heard reveals more than aggressive questioning Editorial bridges build community: Getting Zola Jesus into Vogue shows how to connect leftfield artists with mainstream audiences Investment creates lasting impact: The boygenius desert cover succeeded because someone fought for the vision and funded it personally Taste-making is community service: Early discovery of artists like Billie Eilish demonstrates journalism's role in cultural development Continue the Conversation: Email sean@drownedinsound.org with your thoughts on music journalism's craft Join the discussion in our community forum Guest Links: Nora Ephron at the Movies - Ilana's book published October 2024 @lanikaps on Twitter @lanikaps on Instagram Ilana on Bluesky Referenced in Episode: Defector - Writer-owned sports publication mentioned as model The Hype Machine - Music blog aggregator that shaped early 2010s discovery Rob Sheffield at Rolling Stone - The writer who inspired Ilana's career boygenius in AltPress - The cover feature we discuss The Future Is Written - Huck Magazine profile mentioned in outro About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. This episode was recorded in November 2023 during Ilana's transition between staff and freelance work, capturing insights about journalism craft and industry navigation during a period of significant media industry change.

In this special Q&A episode, DiS founder Sean Adams explores the uncomfortable truths about streaming economics, social media burnout, and why the music industry's success metrics are fundamentally broken. From debunking the myth that millions of streams equal financial stability to reframing social media as an extension of artistic practice, Sean answers your questions and offers practical wisdom for navigating an industry designed to exploit rather than support creators. This episode strips away the glossy veneer of streaming success stories to reveal the harsh mathematical reality: an artist with 25 million streams over a decade might earn just £6,000 annually - less than minimum wage, before expenses. Sean explores why massive streaming numbers rarely translate to sustainable live audiences and how platforms like Spotify actively prevent artists from connecting with their own listeners. Edited by:  Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio Chapters: [00:00] Introduction [01:31] What do you tell an artist that has great music but hates social media? [09:46] What will streaming look like in five years? [14:57] Is there still a place for live streaming gigs? [20:37] Does 25 million Spotify streams pay enough to live on? [27:07] The difference between building a fanbase and streaming numbers [32:35] Outro and preview for Part 2 [34:01] Bonus track: Kate Nash on MySpace Key Takeaways: How to transform social media from promotional burden into artistic storytelling extension Recognise the disconnect between streaming numbers and actual audience connection Focus on platforms that enable direct fan communication rather than vanity metrics Consider live streaming only for performances designed specifically for digital consumption Resources Mentioned: Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist by Liz Pelly Benefits' meta-commentary social media approach Moment House platform for curated live streaming Bandcamp for Artists - Direct fan communication model Bandcamp Community Features - Artist-to-fan messaging Questions Answered: Sarah Howells (LinkedIn): Advice for great artists who hate social media Mark Painting (LinkedIn): Will streaming consolidate or fragment in five years? Paul Gaffigan (Email): Is there still a place for live streaming post-lockdown? Tony Moss (Email): Breaking down the 25 million streams success myth Continue the Conversation: Send your questions for future Q&A episodes to sean@drownedinsound.org or find Sean online. What music industry myths need debunking next? About the Host: Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication that has championed underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful. Next Episode Preview: Part two continues with Sean's analysis of the Disarmed Spotify movement - why musicians are pulling their music and fans are abandoning the platform they once trusted.