$old 4 a $ong

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Oscar-nominated, Grammy-winning songwriter/producer Dennis Matkosky (Diana Ross, Flashdance, Al Jarreau, Boz Scaggs, Keith Urban, LeAnn Rimes) sits down with host Terrance Sawchuk to drop a masterclass on creative longevity and business ownership. From writing “Maniac” in 15 minutes and tailoring it for Flashdance with Phil Ramone, to the long road behind Keith Urban’s “You’ll Think of Me,” to discovering and championing HARDY, Dennis shares hard-won lessons on belief, persistence, and treating yourself like the CEO of your art. We get into LA vs. Nashville, film/TV cuts, admin vs. ownership, AI and streamlining, and the new “blue ocean” model where artists own code, data, and distribution. If you’re a songwriter, artist, or producer who’s ready to stop waiting for permission and start running your career like a business, this one’s a gem. What You’ll Learn The real story behind “Maniac” and how lyrics were reshaped for Flashdance Why great songs are timeless—but cuts are all about timing Admin deals vs. publishing ownership (and when each makes sense) How Dennis evaluates and develops talent (and why HARDY bends genres) The mindset shift: artists as CEOs—and how to build leverage How AI can streamline the boring stuff so you can create more Blue-ocean strategies for an artist-owned future (own your portal, data, and distribution) Guest Dennis Matkosky — Oscar-nominated, Grammy-winning songwriter/producer. Credits include Diana Ross (“Mirror, Mirror”), Michael Sembello (“Maniac”), Al Jarreau, Boz Scaggs (“Heart of Mine”), LeAnn Rimes (“I Need You”), Keith Urban (“You’ll Think of Me”), Chicago, and more. Co-founder at Relative Music Group. Follow Dennis: https://www.relativemusicgroup.com/ https://www.facebook.com/dmatkosky https://www.instagram.com/dennis_matkosky/   Links & Resources Relative Music Group: relativemusicgroup.com Pull Quotes “You’re the CEO of your company. Don’t hand away the 2% you can control.” — Dennis “Great songs are timeless; getting them cut is all timing.” — Terrance “Own the code. Own the data. Own the distribution.” — Terrance Chapter Guide (optional) 00:00 Opening riff — Artists as CEOs 02:55 Dennis’s early years (Philly roots, Sembello, jazz) 05:50 “Maniac” genesis → Flashdance with Phil Ramone 12:10 Grammy/Oscar season and stiff competition 13:00 Writing/producing for Boz Scaggs, Al Jarreau, Chicago 18:45 LA sessions → film/TV → Nashville move 20:20 “I Need You” (LeAnn Rimes) and pitching strategy 23:40 “You’ll Think of Me” (Keith Urban) — the long game 26:05 Spotting HARDY and bending the genre 30:35 Ownership, leverage, and the artist-as-CEO mindset 37:20 Algorithms, radio, and the new release reality 39:40 Blue-ocean playbook for artist-owned futures 44:20 AI for streamlining creative businesses 45:55 Dennis’s upcoming book & parting wisdom Tags Songwriting, Music Business, Ownership, Publishing, Sync, Nashville, Flashdance, HARDY, Keith Urban, LeAnn Rimes, Creativity, AI for Creators, Independent Artists, Relative Music Group, Terrance Sawchuk  

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Fred Mollin Unplugged: Hits, Heartbreak, and the Art of Producing Legends with host Terrance “Terry” Sawchuk — terrancesawchuk.com What does it take to produce the greatest songwriters on earth—and still love the work decades later? Grammy-nominated, Juno Award-winning producer Fred Mollin joins Terrance Sawchuk to talk about building trust with legends (Jimmy Webb, Kris Kristofferson, Johnny Mathis, Billy Joel, James Taylor), surviving label bankruptcies, composing for film/TV, and why great producers are often great reducers. You’ll hear the true story behind “Sometimes When We Touch,” how a label collapse wiped out life-changing royalties, why U.S. theatrical runs don’t pay performance royalties to composers (but Europe does), and the making of Jimmy Webb’s intimate classic Ten Easy Pieces—including the version of “By the Time I Get to Phoenix” that Bob Dylan singled out in his book The Philosophy of Modern Song. Fred also shares an email that nearly led to producing Dylan himself. If you care about songs, studios, and the humans who make them, this one’s a masterclass. Highlights Trust, taste, and the producer as “reducer” The crash course: label bankruptcy and lost producer royalties TV/film back-end vs. U.S. theatrical: what pays and what doesn’t How Ten Easy Pieces was really recorded (and why it feels live) Calling in favors: building a Rolodex that gets legends to say “yes” Modern albums, mega-tracklists, and the algorithm era Trauma, truth, and why autobiographical songs hit harder Timestamps 00:49 Intro: Why Sold for a Song exists 02:00 Who is Fred Mollin? 06:45 Dan Hill, Matt McCauley & producing a global hit 10:50 When the label goes bankrupt (and your check vanishes) 12:30 Film/TV royalties 101 (U.S. vs. Europe) 13:30 The Clive Davis “yes-sir” moment 17:45 Becoming the “duets” guy & calling legends 21:20 Making Jimmy Webb’s Ten Easy Pieces 25:30 Standing on the shoulders of great players 26:50 The Bob Dylan email (and what might have been) 29:10 Working with Lamont Dozier & the Motown wellspring 32:30 The algorithm era vs. live, charted studio magic 34:15 Creativity, trauma, and writing what hurts 37:50 Fred’s book, tour, and new Jimmy Webb project Resources & Links Fred’s book (signed): FredMollinUnplugged.com Fred’s site: FredMollin.com Host: Terrance Sawchuk — TerranceSawchuk.com www.fredmollin.com 👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com.

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Summary In this episode, the conversation explores the challenges and triumphs of artists in the music industry, focusing on the importance of self-worth, the impact of personal struggles, and the evolving landscape of music distribution and fan engagement. The guests share their experiences navigating the complexities of the industry, the role of social media, and the significance of authentic connections with fans. They also discuss the power of music to heal and the future of technology in the music world. Takeaways You can't ignore the pain of your audience. The music industry undervalues its contributors. Self-worth is crucial for artists. Crowdfunding can empower artists financially. Social media is a tool for connection, not just promotion. Authenticity resonates more than perfection. Music has the power to heal and connect people. Building a community is essential for artists. Navigating the industry requires resilience and adaptability. Personal struggles can enhance artistic expression. Titles The Pain Behind the Music: A Deep Dive Navigating the Music Industry: Insights and Strategies Sound bites "You can't get sent 52,000 messages in a year." "There's so much work involved in everything." "I made like 30 grand each album." Chapters 00:00 The Pain Behind the Music 02:42 The Journey of an Artist 05:54 Navigating the Music Industry 08:43 The Role of Social Media in Music 11:34 The Impact of Personal Struggles 14:32 Creating Meaningful Connections 17:35 The Evolution of Crowdfunding 20:36 The Importance of Authenticity 23:42 The Power of Music to Heal 26:26 The Future of Music and Technology   Keywords music industry, songwriters, artists, mental health, crowdfunding, social media, personal struggles, authenticity, connections, healing For more go to www.daphnewillis.com Listen To Somebody's Someone NOW!!! https://open.spotify.com/track/5E4rKYrMy59ie5eBEhZbzJ?si=36527d7b40284ee7 👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com.

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Legendary songwriter Roger Cook joins host Terrance Sawchuk on Sold for a Song to share untold stories behind hit records, the realities of Nashville’s music machine, and the future of music ownership. From Bono bar stories to Alanis Morissette’s Jagged Little Pill sessions, this episode is packed with songwriting wisdom, industry laughs, and lessons every creative needs to hear. Full Show Notes Episode Summary In this powerful episode of Sold for a Song, Terrance Sawchuk sits down with Hall of Fame songwriter Roger Cook (You Got Your Troubles, I Just Want to Dance with You) for an unfiltered conversation about: The highs and lows of songwriting success Crazy stories with Bono, The Beatles, and Roy Orbison Alanis Morissette’s intellectual intercourse lyric inspiration The Nashville writing grind vs. creative freedom abroad Music industry greed, market share royalties, and blockchain’s future Why the simplest songs often hit the hardest This episode isn’t just music history—it’s a roadmap for songwriters, artists, and anyone navigating creative ownership in today’s industry. Key Takeaways “Write one for the radio, one for yourself.” Roger’s simple but powerful philosophy on staying authentic. Market share vs. fairness: Why songwriters often lose money despite millions of streams—and how Web3 could fix it. Creative freedom matters: Why some of the best songs come from outside the pressure cooker of Nashville. The hit songs that changed everything: From You Got Your Troubles to I Just Want to Dance with You. Lessons from legends: Stories involving Bono, The Beatles, John Prine, and Alanis Morissette. Quotes from the Episode “The easiest thing you’ll ever do in this business is sign a record deal. The hardest thing? Keeping it.” – Roger Cook “At some point, you might as well fail being you.” – Terrance Sawchuk “Write for love first. Let the hits take care of themselves.” – Roger Cook Resources & Links Join the Sold for a Song community: TerranceSawchuk.com Follow Terrance on Instagram: @terrancesawchuk Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and everywhere you get your podcasts Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction 01:03 – Nashville beginnings & signing record deals 05:07 – Stories about Bono, The Beatles, Roy Orbison 08:45 – Songwriting with Alanis Morissette 12:30 – Nashville co-writing culture & royalty frustrations 16:20 – Writing hits vs. personal songs 19:30 – Chances Are and the power of simplicity 24:30 – You Got Your Troubles: Roger plays his biggest hit 28:00 – Nashville then vs. now: 1970s to the streaming era 34:18 – Market share, streaming, and blockchain’s promise 36:50 – Publishing splits, admin deals & music business lessons 40:00 – Closing thoughts & future conversations Call to Action Join the movement: TerranceSawchuk.com Subscribe, rate, and review $old 4 a $ong to help more creators reclaim their worth. Want to go deeper? Watch for the $old 4 a $ong Academy + 1:1 mentoring inside the private portal. Credits Host: Terrance Sawchuk Guest: Roger Cook Production: $old 4 a $ong / Terrance Sawchuk Music/Editing: Terrance Sawchuk Location: Nashville, TN SEO Keywords (paste in Podbean “Tags”) songwriting, music business, publishing splits, masters vs publishing, Nashville, George Martin, The Beatles, Roger Cook, Terrance Sawchuk, ASCAP, royalties, country songwriting, catalog sales, investor catalogs, 1000 true fans, ukulele, John Prine   👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com.  

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Legendary songwriter Roger Cook—the only British citizen inducted into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame—joins Terrance Sawchuk to unpack six decades of craft, business, and integrity. From “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)” and “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing” to “Talking in Your Sleep,” Roger shares how to write songs that outlast trends, the reality of publishing splits, why masters vs. publishing changed the game, and how artists can build direct, sustainable careers with 100 true fans. You’ll hear frank stories about George Martin, The Beatles, UK/US publishing practices, live performance royalty gaps, demo culture, co-writing integrity, and why Roger still writes two to three days a week at 85—with a Guild ukulele John Prine gifted him. What You’ll Learn Craft: How to write for the listener (and widen your cutability from 3 artists to 33) Business: Why historic publishing deals siphoned value—and how to negotiate smarter today Royalties: The uncomfortable truth about US live performance payouts vs. other countries Strategy: Masters vs. publishing, why investors buy catalogs, and what “uncorrelated assets” mean Career Design: Portals, community, and the “100 fans x $1,000” model Chapter Timestamps 00:00 Spiritual payment: why one great line is its own paycheck 01:00 Terrance’s intro + mission of $old 4 a $ong 03:20 Roger at 85: perspective, gratitude, longevity 05:40 Choirboy roots → harmony, melody, first groups (The Harmonettes → The Sapphires) 08:09 The Kestrels, first co-write: “You’ve Got Your Troubles (I’ve Got Mine)” 09:35 When The Fortunes “got the song” and raced it to a hit 11:00 George Martin, “Michelle (ma belle),” and becoming artists 12:43 The publishing math: 70 years after death & the 50/50 (that wasn’t really 50/50) 14:21 US live performance royalties vs. Canada; forms no one files 16:02 Cook & Greenaway: integrity over easy credits 17:49 Modern split creep: how a writer can end up with 5% 19:17 Why investors buy catalogs: undervaluation & uncorrelated assets 21:44 Masters vs. publishing: the big shift with streaming scale 23:40 100 true fans; ASCAP averages; building direct value 25:18 Roger’s routine: still writing 2–3 days a week 27:18 First meeting in Nashville (golf, AIR Studios, Beatles orbit) 31:30 “Love Don’t Let Me Go,” Hillary Lindsey demo, Gordie Sampson 33:15 Coming to Nashville “cocky,” learning to write for the ears here 34:47 “Talking in Your Sleep” and leaving the “English bits” out 36:13 Lyrics first: mixing for words (carving 1 kHz), pop vs. country sensibilities 37:41 Computers, programming, AI voices—and protecting “soul” 39:02 The ukulele from John Prine 40:08 The Beatles’ shockwave; Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Orbison, Everlys 42:35 Work ethic vs. entitlement: Hamburg, clubs, and stagecraft 43:50 Closing: claim your worth, build your portal, own your career About Roger Cook Roger Cook is a member of both the American Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. His songs have been recorded by The Hollies, Don Williams, Crystal Gayle, George Strait, John Denver, and many more. Notable works include “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress),” “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing,” and “Talking in Your Sleep.” He has collaborated with the greats on both sides of the Atlantic and helped shape pop, country, and rock for over five decades. Notable Quotes “I get paid in my soul as a writer.” — Roger Cook “Change one word and 33 artists can cut your song.” — Roger Cook “We need a new norm where creators keep leverage.” — Terrance Sawchuk Mentions & References George Martin, The Beatles (Rubber Soul, “Michelle”) The Fortunes — “You’ve Got Your Troubles (I’ve Got Mine)” Crystal Gayle — “Talking in Your Sleep” Hillary Lindsey, Gordie Sampson John Prine (Guild ukulele) Ralph Murphy, ASCAP Matt Dusk, Engelbert Humperdinck, Tom Jones AIR Studios (co-owned with George Martin) Blackbird Studio, John McBride (mix reference)     Join the movement: TerranceSawchuk.com Subscribe, rate, and review $old 4 a $ong to help more creators reclaim their worth. Want to go deeper? Watch for the $old 4 a $ong Academy + 1:1 mentoring inside the private portal. Credits Host: Terrance Sawchuk Guest: Roger Cook Production: $old 4 a $ong / Terrance Sawchuk Music/Editing: Terrance Sawchuk Location: Nashville, TN songwriting, music business, publishing splits, masters vs publishing, Nashville, George Martin, The Beatles, Roger Cook, Terrance Sawchuk, ASCAP, royalties, country songwriting, catalog sales, investor catalogs, 1000 true fans, ukulele, John Prine 👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com.  

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Summary In this episode of 'Sold for a Song', legendary songwriter Eddie Schwartz shares his journey in the music industry, detailing the struggles and triumphs of being a songwriter. He discusses the creation of his iconic song 'Hit Me With Your Best Shot' and the challenges he faced in getting it recognized. The conversation then shifts to the Fair Trade Music initiative, aimed at ensuring fair compensation for music creators and promoting ethical practices in the music industry. Schwartz emphasizes the importance of education and accountability for modern songwriters, advocating for a shift in how artists manage their careers and rights. Takeaways The journey of a songwriter is often filled with challenges and rejections. 'Hit Me With Your Best Shot' faced initial criticism but became a hit. Fair Trade Music aims to create a more ethical music industry. Songwriters must educate themselves about the business side of music. Being fearless in creativity and business is essential for success. The music industry is currently dominated by corporate interests. Songwriters need to monitor their rights and compensation closely. Fair Trade Music provides a framework for fair compensation. Modern songwriters must write undeniable songs to succeed. Collaboration and support among music creators are vital for change. Titles The Struggles of a Songwriter Creating 'Hit Me With Your Best Shot' Sound bites "You can't stop an idea whose time has come" "The industry is mostly run by the industry" "Fair Trade Music is a tool that we can use" Chapters 00:00 The Journey of a Songwriter 20:15 Fair Trade Music Initiative 29:23 The Modern Songwriter's Mindset Keywords songwriting, music industry, Fair Trade Music, artist rights, music creators, songwriter journey, music value chain, creative empowerment, music royalties, songwriter education 👉 Be fearless in your creativity, and fearless in your business. You can contact Eddie Schwartz at: https://www.eddieschwartzmusic.com/ https://www.fairtrademusicinternational.org/   👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com.   https://www.eddieschwartzmusic.com/biography/    

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com   Summary In this episode of $old 4 a $ong, host Terrance Sawchuk goes behind the scenes of the touring world with Neville Drew Shende — veteran entertainer coach driver, Director of Tour Relations at Pioneer Coach, and founder of CDL Platinum. Neville shares stories from two decades on the road with iconic artists like Prince, Alicia Keys, Aerosmith, Papa Roach, and Disturbed, offering a rare look at life on tour and the lessons that shaped his career. From the discipline and artistry of Prince to the importance of self-worth, hard work, and healthy balance, Neville brings a fresh perspective on what it takes to succeed in entertainment. Takeaways Prince was always moving forward, despite industry pressures. The importance of self-worth in the music industry. Building relationships is key to success in entertainment. Understanding the nuances of your craft is essential. Creativity should not be stifled by external expectations. The value of hard work and dedication in achieving success. Positive energy can uplift those around you. Investing in yourself is crucial for long-term success. The importance of maintaining a healthy work-life balance. Learning from experiences shapes your professional journey. Summary In this episode, Neville Drew Shende shares his incredible journey as an entertainer bus driver, detailing his experiences with iconic artists like Prince. He discusses the importance of self-worth, creativity, and the relentless pursuit of excellence in the music industry. Neville emphasizes the value of building relationships and understanding the nuances of one's craft, while also introducing his CDL Platinum course aimed at empowering drivers in the entertainment industry. Titles Behind the Scenes with a Rock Star Bus Driver Lessons from the Road: Insights from Neville Drew Shendi Sound bites "Let the baker make the bread." "I fell in love with the guitar." "I was the smoothest cat." Chapters 00:00 The Journey of an Entertainer Bus Driver 20:55 Lessons from Prince: The Art of Perfection 45:32 Navigating the Music Industry: Artist Control and Value 49:01 Empowering Drivers: The CDL Platinum Course   Keywords entertainer bus driver, Prince, music industry, artist control, CDL Platinum, Neville Drew Shende, songwriting, self-worth, creative empowerment, tour management You can reach Neville Drew Shende at www.cdlplatinum.com   👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com.   Neville Drew Shende – Professional Biography Current Role: Director of Tour Relations at Pioneer Coach, one of the leading companies handling coach services for high-profile performing artists. Industry Experience: Carries approximately 22 years of extensive experience in the entertainment touring industry, including logistics, fleet management, and driver relations Career Highlights: Held multiple roles at Pioneer Coach: Director of Tour Relations (Apr 2023–Present) Fleet Operations/Safety Manager & Tour & Driver Relations (Feb 2002–Apr 2023) Entertainer Coach Driver (Feb 2002–Oct 2009) Clients: Prince, Alicia Keys, Papa Roach, Disturbed, Aerosmith...  Managed a fleet of over 37 entertainer sleeper buses, coordinating 36 full-time and 48 part-time drivers—a complex logistical operation demanding precision and reliability. Entrepreneurial & Creative Ventures: Owner of Nelvis Enterprises LLC (since March 2004): Published a book titled “The Entertainer Coach Driver: An Inside Look”, offering behind-the-scenes insight into the concert touring world. Founder of www.cdlplatinum.com 

$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable. Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™  course all at www.sold4asong.com     Summary In this episode of Sold 4 A Song, host Terrance Sawchuk engages with Patrick Clifford, a veteran A&R executive, to explore the evolution of the music industry, the importance of empowering artists, and the challenges faced by creators today. Patrick shares his journey from the romanticism of the old school music business to the modern landscape shaped by technology and streaming. The conversation highlights memorable experiences with iconic artists, the significance of ownership, and the necessity for artists to be business-savvy in a rapidly changing environment. Takeaways The music industry has historically undervalued songwriters and artists. Empowering artists is essential for their success and recognition. Old school music business had a romanticism that is often missed today. Music played a crucial role in societal changes during the 60s and 70s. Becoming an A&R man was a dream fueled by passion for music. Early experiences in the industry shaped Patrick's career path. The 70s music scene was chaotic yet vibrant, akin to the Wild West. Discovering and nurturing new talent is a rewarding aspect of A&R. The Neville Brothers' comeback album was a significant project for Patrick. Artists today must navigate a complex landscape of technology and business. Sound bites "I met John Lennon with Harry Nilsson." "I wanted to be an A&R man." "Artists today must be business savvy." Chapters 00:00 The Encounter with John Lennon 00:18 Patrick Clifford's Journey in A&R 01:45 The Romanticism of Old School Music Business 03:42 The Impact of Music on Society 06:27 The Path to Becoming an A&R Man 09:45 Early Experiences in the Music Industry 12:12 The Wild West of the 70s Music Scene 16:12 Discovering New Talent: The Romantics 18:26 Working with Iconic Artists 21:55 The Neville Brothers and Daniel Lanois 25:08 The Evolution of the Artist's Role 27:15 Navigating the Modern Music Landscape 31:05 The Business Savvy Artist 33:31 Ownership and Control in the Music Industry 36:00 The Role of AI in Music Production 36:19 Memorable Moments at the Dakota 40:45 The Currency of Heart and Soul in Music 46:16 The Importance of Serving Others in Music music industry, songwriters, artists, A&R, empowerment, music history, modern music, artist management, ownership, AI in music You can reach Patrick Clifford on Instagram @pchollywood. 👉 Subscribe, review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 👉 Join the movement at TerranceSawchuk.com. Patrick Clifford – Bio Name: Patrick Clifford Nickname: “The Pope of Five Points” – a playful title reflecting his gregarious presence and beloved status in East Nashville’s Five Points neighborhood, where locals often greet him with friendly honks and cheers  Early Career Began with Nemperor Artists, working closely with James Taylor and Cat Stevens, and notably discovered and recorded The Romantics Served in A&R departments at major labels: Epic, A&M, Chrysalis, and Capitol, working with Miami Sound Machine, Blues Traveler, and The Neville Brothers As a senior executive at BMG, he collaborated with iconic figures like Etta James and Ziggy Marley Ten Ten Music Group Joined Ten Ten Music Group in Nashville in 2005, serving as VP of A&R until 2013  Disney Music Publishing In June 2013, Patrick was named Vice President of Music Publishing and A&R for Disney Music Publishing in Nashville. In this role, he handled creative leadership, expanded the writer roster, and managed the exploitation of Disney’s extensive song catalog. Recent Work & Local Legacy After his stint at Disney, Patrick launched his own consulting company, began managing artists, and became an independent A&R representative for Concord Music Group. A beloved figure in East Nashville, he has affection for the neighborhood, frequently seen at spots like The Basement East, The 5 Spot, and others—earning him his “Pope of Five Points” reputation.

What’s the true worth of a songwriter or artist? For too long, artists have been selling themselves short — and today the challenge has only grown with AI and Big Tech. $old 4 a $ong is the podcast that reverse-engineers the ways creatives have been undervalued and reveals how to build a sustainable career in the chaos. Hosted by Billboard #1 multi-platinum songwriter and producer Terrance Sawchuk, this show is about reclaiming ownership and streamlining a sustainable creative life. Each episode brings real conversations with legendary hitmakers, executives, and disruptors who confirm: it’s time to start playing the game above the game. Welcome to the Escape Hatch.