Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple

In this conversation, Josh walks us through the pattern of the ancient tabernacle and Solomon’s temple, helping us begin to understand what temple worship and sacrifice looked like for the ancient Israelites. Gaining an understanding of what the temple experience was like anciently has really helped to enrich my relationship with our modern temple. I was struck by both the similarities and the differences in how we relate to the temple today. Josh breaks down the various types of sacrificial rites the Israelites performed and shows how they are more similar to our modern law of sacrifice than we might expect.These were people who faced the same challenge we face today: how to move beyond outward performance and truly offer our whole heart and soul to the Lord. Josh teaches that, in the end, the only thing we can really offer God is our will. God invites us into the experience of sacrifice and repentance—a journey that both transforms and liberates, a journey back to Eden. And all that is needed to begin is our desireJoshua M. Matson is an assistant professor in the Department of Ancient Scripture at Brigham Young University, with an appointment to the Jerusalem Center for Near Eastern Studies. His published work has focused on the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Hebrew Bible (particularly the Old Testament Minor Prophets), ancient and modern manuscript studies, and the Jewish context of the Greek New Testament. He is the editor for the book of Haggai for the Society of Biblical Literature Hebrew Bible Critical Edition and is a member of the editorial board for the BYU New Testament Commentary Series. He is a former researcher for the Scripta Qumranica Electronica project and an Orion Center for Dead Sea Scrolls Research Fellow at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. A former Religious Educator with Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, Josh and his wife Erin are the parents of four children and reside in Santaquin, Utah.Subscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

As we began preparing to create the Sanctuary podcast, one of our goals was to offer a resource for those preparing to attend the temple for the first time. We wanted to have a straightforward conversation about what you can expect in the endowment ceremony and provide some context to help you begin understanding the purpose behind these sacred rituals.In this episode, Jasmin and I zoom out and take a bird’s-eye view of the “covenant path.” She helps us begin to see the greater message and pattern that is unfolding, and how the different ordinances connect to one another. I was inspired to have this conversation with Jasmin after hearing a comment she once made: “The endowment covenants are deeper iterations of baptismal covenants.”If you—or someone you love—is preparing to receive their endowment for the first time, this episode is for you. I remember wishing that someone had walked me through what happens in the endowment ceremony, like Jasmin does in this episode, before I went through the temple for the first time. Sometimes, simply knowing what to expect can make something as big and magnificent as the temple experience feel more approachable. At the same time, as Jasmin mentions in this episode, there is also something to be said for leaning into the mystery and surrendering to the experience.Come learn about God’s invitation to become kings and queens, priests and priestesses—and how taking on Christ by emulating Him is the process through which we move toward this eternal destiny.Jasmin Rappleye is a social media content creator, where she focuses on addressing challenging Latter-day Saint beliefs, history, and news. She has a degree from Brigham Young University in Ancient Near Eastern Studies and has a passion for sharing her faith online. She was the former Director of Communications at Scripture Central and is now on the Executive Committee of the Ancient America Foundation and Faith Creators Alliance.Follow Jasmin on Instagram here.Follow Jasmin on Youtube here.Listen to Jasmin’s podcast here.Subscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

This conversation with Matt was one of my favorites. I am endlessly fascinated by ritual. Why have humans, since seemingly the beginning of time, performed rituals? I want to understand the role ritual plays in my life, in my community, and in the world. I have wrestled with it. I have hated it. I have been transformed by it. I have come to deeply love it—and will likely cycle through all of those feelings many times throughout my life.I’m convinced of ritual. I really am. Even more so after this conversation with Matt. In this episode, he walks us through the history of Christian ritual, how our relationship with ritual was profoundly transformed during the Reformation, and what Joseph Smith envisioned for the Saints when establishing something radically different in the 1830s.We explore why people believe that Jesus “did away with the law of Moses,” where that phrase came from, and why so many Christians believe we have “outgrown” ritual. Matt invites us into a new way of understanding the purpose of our rituals, and I left the conversation feeling truly inspired to more fully embrace what we are doing in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Matthew Bowman was appointed the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies in 2019, with a joint appointment in History and Religion. He is a specialist in American religious history, with particular interests in Mormonism, new religious movements, UFOs, and the development of the concept of “religion” in the United States. Most recently, he is the author of Joseph Fielding Smith: A Mormon Theologian and The Abduction of Betty and Barney Hill: UFO Encounters, Civil Rights, and the New Age in America.Finding Matthew’s books here.Subscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

I was so grateful to have the pleasure to speak with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for this episode.. This conversation is another exploration of covenants, but from the framework of the stages of development. This episode begins with Jennifer introducing the three stages of development she describes in her work, and from there she helps us get a feel for how we might relate to God’s laws based on the current stage of development we are operating in. I love that Jennifer emphasizes that value of each stage, whilst also holding a vision for what is possible, both for the individual and the community. We planned to work through all of the covenants, but this ended up being a conversation largely on obedience and what it might look like to have an evolving relationship with it.I myself have witnessed an evolution of how I relate to my faith and discipleship over the years, and this information has really helped me to better understand the developmental journey that I’m on, and to look forward to what it is I’m moving into. I feel it is so valuable to learn that there are new ways we might experience our faith and relationship with God.This felt like a perfect moment to share this conversation as we are exploring obedience in Come, Follow Me this week. I hope you love it as much as I did.Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife is an LDS relationship and sexuality coach with a Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology. She is the author of That We Might Have Joy: Desire, Divinity, and Intimate Love and the creator of six online courses that help individuals and couples create happier lives and stronger intimate relationships. She also hosts Room for Two, a popular sex and intimacy podcast, and is a regular guest on LDS-themed podcasts discussing relationships, faith, and sexuality.Find Jennifer’s book here.Find Jennifer’s courses and podcasts here.Subscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

Gosh, I really can’t express how much I loved this conversation with George. It felt like a celebration of life—and an invitation to live and love it more fully. This conversation explores the five covenants we make in the temple, with particular emphasis on the first and the last: obedience and consecration. George shares his personal journey of coming to know the true God and of developing his own desire to offer his obedience to Him. We explore what true freedom is, the gift of our own weaknesses, and how to answer the call to a life of generosity and service. And that, perhaps, what becomes unveiled as we truly align ourselves with these divine laws is our ability to see just how precious and beautiful life really is.George Handley has taught at BYU in the fields of humanities and environmental studies for the past 28 years. He and his wife, Amy are the parents of four children and grandparents of four little ones. He is an incredible writer. His books include Hope of Nature, If Truth Were a Child, American Fork, and Home Waters.*Just a heads up, towards the beginning of this episode, George mentions his brother’s death by suicide and speaks to how that profoundly impacted his life and spiritual journey. Please be aware if this is something you are sensitive to.Follow George on Substack here.Subscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

This conversation with Jennifer was especially meaningful to me because it explores embodiment, a pillar of my personal spirituality. Jennifer beautifully explains how our ordinances teach us the necessity of embodiment in discipleship. We perform ordinances with our bodies to symbolize that the spiritual journey requires more than intellectual belief—it calls for our whole selves. As Jennifer says, “Salvation isn’t a mental assent to a concept”; it is a lived journey that engages body, heart, mind, and spirit.I was deeply moved by how Christ-centered this conversation felt. Jennifer helps us see how the ordinances of the restored gospel invite us into the sacred process of “putting on Christ.” We discuss how our will and desires part the veil, allowing God’s power to flow into us and truly transform us. We also reflect on the garment of the holy priesthood as another profound symbol of embodiment—one that teaches us about our divine identity and mission.I hope this conversation inspires you to embrace this incredible gift God is offering us with your whole self and ignites a fire in you to take part in this great work of gathering Israel. I know it did for meJennifer C. Lane is a professor emerita of Religious Education at BYU–Hawaii, where she taught for nearly twenty years and served as Dean and Associate Academic Vice President for Curriculum. She earned a PhD in Religion from Claremont Graduate University and holds MA and BA degrees from BYU. After returning to Provo with her husband, Keith, she served as a Neal A. Maxwell Research Associate at BYU’s Neal A. Maxwell Institute. She continues to research and write on temples, holiness, and discipleship and is the author of Let’s Talk about Temples and Ritual and Finding Christ in the Covenant Path: Ancient Insights for the Modern World.Find Jennifer’s book, Finding Christ on the Covenant Path, which we referenced here.Read Jennifer’s article “Embodied Knowledge of God” here.Subscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

Jared Lambert is a historical linguist specializing in the ancient Near East and the Hebrew Bible. He is a former military linguist in the United States Army and previously served as the lead linguist over sacred materials for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, working directly with temple-related content. Jared holds multiple degrees across linguistics, history, and religious studies and is currently completing his PhD in historical linguistics. His work focuses on diachronic language development, temple theology, and the ways translation, symbolism, and later theological frameworks reshaped earlier biblical traditions, particularly surrounding covenant, priesthood, and the Divine Feminine. He teaches courses on biblical language and symbolism and creates public-facing content aimed at helping modern readers approach scripture with greater historical and linguistic clarity.I was excited to sit down with Jared and hear his presentation on the creation story—especially as we’re just beginning the Old Testament in Come Follow Me, which opens with this account. Through a linguistic lens, Jared explores the ancient text’s etymological roots, revealing deeper meanings that resonate with both scientific and spiritual perspectives.He shares powerful insights into Adam and Eve, the nature of God as understood by ancient Israelites, and a portrayal of God that closely resembles the one worshipped by Latter-day Saints today. Most impactful to me was his reinterpretation of Eve and the essential role she played in humanity’s story.This conversation was fascinating and left me eager to learn more. We only scratched the surface of Jared’s work, and those interested can explore his classes, where he guides students on a linguistic journey through the scriptures. You can find a sign-up link in the show notes.Sign up for Jared’s classes hereFollow Jared on YouTube for more educational contentFollow Jared on TikTokFollow Jared on InstagramSubscribe to keep up with Sanctuary! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

I’m so excited to share this beautiful conversation I had with Jenet Erickson with you. Being just a few days away from Christmas, this felt like the perfect episode to share because it feels like it is just drenched in Jesus.Jenet Erickson is an associate professor in Religious Education at Brigham Young University and a research fellow of the Institute for Family Studies and the Wheatley Institute. She received a PhD in Family Social Science from the University of Minnesota, after completing a bachelor’s degree in Nursing, and master’s degree in Linguistics at BYU. Jenet and her husband, Michael, have been blessed with two children. She has been a columnist on family issues for the Deseret News since 2013.This conversation is an exploration of family and relationship, and why they sit at the very heart of God’s Great Work. Jenet states that “relationships are the core of flourishing. We are designed for love, we are designed for connection, we are designed to be in deep relationships.” We reflect on the vulnerability that comes with being in relationship, and yet how God invites us into ever deepening intimacy with Him and with one another. Jenet draws on temple symbols to help us better understand who God is and the kind of relationship He is inviting us into.My ultimate takeaway from this precious conversation with Jenet is that we worship a God who cuts through all. Who will let nothing stand in His way, parting every barrier to meet His children exactly where they are. As Jenet says, “This is a love that will not let us go.”Wishing each of you a Merry Christmas, and wishing you a moment to cut through all of the noise to find a moment of peace and connection with our Savior.Listened to Jenet’s BYU devotional I referenced here. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

Hannah Packard Crowther is a beautiful human and a thought-provoking writer. She is the author of Gracing, published by Faith Matters, where she reflects on grace not simply as a theological idea, but as an everyday, lived partnership with God. She holds a master’s degree in biological science education from BYU, and she’s a longtime mother, an aspiring theologian and poet, and a beachcomber whenever she gets the chance. Hannah writes at the crossroads of embodied faith, justice, and beauty, and has an essay on prophecy coming out soon in Wayfare.In this episode, Hannah and I delve into what temple work is truly about. As Hannah says, “There’s more to the project than linking names and checking off ordinances. We are linking souls and welding hearts from both sides of the veil.” Hannah and I explore temple ordinances as symbolic acts that reveal deeper truths about our relationships with God and each other. Hannah shares a touching family story that has reshaped her understanding of redemption and the healing that is made possible through this work.We reflect on the journey back to God not as an individual task, but a deeply, unavoidably communal project “that is about coming home, together.” Ultimately, God is playing the long game when it comes to healing and redeeming His children.Find Hannah’s book Gracing on Amazon and Book Shop.Read Dancing with Christ and Redeeming, two powerful excerpts from Hannah’s book Gracing. Follow Hannah on Substack at substack.com/@thisisgracing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

James is a fascinating human and Latter-day Saint, and brings a truly unique perspective to our faith. In his words, his family is Jewish on one side, Sikh on the other, and Mormon in the middle. He works as a historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and is also a poet, novelist, essayist, playwright, documentary filmmaker, scholar, and translator. He’s won the Association for Mormon letters awards in the Drama, Novel, and Creative Nonfiction categories, and has been a finalist in the Poetry and Criticism categories. He’s also one of a rotating cast of scholars on BYUtv’s Come Follow Up series. He is a frequent contributor to Wayfare and a co-author of the book Latter-day Sikh. It was such a joy to sit down with James and talk temple. We begin by exploring his unique blend of Jewish, Sikh, and Mormon heritage, and how that has influenced his experience of ritual and sacred space in an LDS context. James speaks to the value of encountering ritual in other faiths as a way to prepare for the temple, as well as the role of religious imagination and the transformative power of fully inhabiting a story. We weave through stories, personal experiences, and poetry in our exploration of the temple journey.My ultimate take away is that when we let the temple bleed out into every part of our life and who we are, every moment becomes the journey back to God. Life becomes the temple journey. As James says, “The temple is the invitation to develop eyes to see the holiness everywhere; that’s the spirit of endowment.”Find James’ new book Latter-day Sikh at Deseret Book Find James’ poetry collection Phoenix Song anywhere you buy books onlineFind Song of Names wherever you buy books online.Follow James on Substack at jamesgoldberg.substack.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

Sarah is a writer, filmmaker, and recent PhD graduate in literature. Together with her husband, she is a co-author of The Book of Mormon Storybook and the human behind the Instagram account @forlittlesaints. She also works as the Root Director of Peacemaking at Mormon Women for Ethical Government.In this episode, Sarah shares her surprise in being invited onto the show due to not having a particularly strong relationship with the temple—yet this was precisely why I wanted to have a conversation with her. As someone who has had my own challenges in my temple journey, and who sees and feels the struggles many around me share, it felt important to have a conversation about the reality that our temple experience doesn’t always fit our ideals.Together we discuss the journey of making peace with your experience, how to create space for the diversity of experiences within a community, and the spiritual practice of embracing the unknown. Sarah shares about her work with Mormon Women for Ethical Government and what she has learned about peacemaking, the importance of drawing out differences, and allowing things to be unresolved.Sarah has also written beautifully about covenants. Together we explore the “impossible task” of making promises to give your absolute all to God, and the possibility that maybe the point of making covenants isn’t to perfectly keep them, but to deepen our relationship with Christ.Read Sarah’s essay “Covenants by Immersion” on WayfareMagazine.org.Preorder her new book, The Bible Storybook: The Old Testament, at forlittlesaints.comListen to Sarah read her scripture retellings for children in Scripture Stories for Little Saints, a new podcast from Faith Matters. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

Melinda W. Brown is an author and educator with a master’s degree in Christian Practice from Duke Divinity School, where she focused on Christian Education. She is the author of Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance (Deseret Book, 2020) and An Endowment of Love: Embracing Christ’s Covenant Way of Living and Loving.In this episode, Mindy and I drop into the heart of the temple and what we believe God is intending to do in our lives through the temple. We explore what becomes possible when we move away from a “duty-bound, transactional” approach to God and the covenants we make with Him, and instead really see covenants for what they are—a deepening of relationship with Him and with each other.We explore the value of involving the body in the act of temple rituals when making commitments to God, how to “mine symbols for new meanings”, and the reality that the temple might not be the place you feel God’s love most.Ultimately, we both believe that the temple experience isn’t about earning Heaven in the future, but about teaching us how to experience Heaven here and now.You can find Mindy’s book An Endowment of Love: Embracing Christ’s Covenant Way of Living and Loving on Amazon or at Deseret Book. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

It felt only right to begin this journey with sharing my own.I grew up in the heart of Utah County in what I would refer to as a “cliche Mormon household.” Two faithful parents, seven children, a father who works at BYU—I was living the stereotype. But at age 15, due to a series of painful events and a battle with my mental health, I left the faith of my childhood.I spent the next 8 years struggling, wandering, and searching for truth—until five years ago, when I had a miraculous, born-again encounter with Jesus Christ while living in Thailand.I never wanted to come back to religion, but was guided to eventually read the Book of Mormon. I quickly received a witness of its truth. A couple of years later I went through the temple for my endowment—but despite my extensive preparation it was not what I expected. The challenge of that experience initiated a journey of deeper study to find out what all of this is really about. That journey continues today, and my hope is that you will join me as I continue to reach for understanding and meaning in this peculiar place that is The House of the Lord. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org

Sanctuary: Discovering the Temple is a new podcast from Faith Matters where we hold curious, open, & honest conversations as we explore and re-discover the temple together. In this short introductory episode, host Larkin Swain welcomes you to the project and gives a brief explanation of her background. We would love to hear from you! Email info@faithmatters.org with your questions and suggestions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.sanctuarypod.org