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Love in Action
Love in Action
Author: Marcel Schwantes
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© 2025 Love in Action
Description
The Love in Action Podcast—ranked #33 among the 100 Best Leadership Podcasts and in the top 2% of shows worldwide—is where leadership meets humanity. Hosted by global influencer, author, and executive coach Marcel Schwantes, the show features candid conversations with bestselling authors, visionary executives, and thought leaders who are redefining what it means to lead. Whether you want to sharpen your leadership skills, create a culture people love to work in, or grow your business by putting people first, you’ll find practical wisdom and inspiring stories to help you get there.
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Episode recap
Don’t forget Marcel’s special offer to join his Substack community for $8.00/month. Subscribe here: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/subscribe
In this solo episode, Marcel Schwantes discussed the impact of fear in the workplace, explaining how it stifles creativity, innovation, and collaboration. He highlighted that fear-based environments lead to disengagement, turnover, and low morale, while human-centered leadership fosters psychological safety and trust. Marcel emphasized the importance of leaders addressing their blind spots and modifying behaviors to create a positive workplace culture. He stressed that hiring and developing leaders based on technical competence alone is insufficient, urging a focus on humanity and human-centered attributes. Marcel encouraged listeners to subscribe to his Substack for further insights on effective human-centered leadership.
Bio:
Marcel Schwantes is a leadership coach, speaker, author, and advocate for more humane workplaces. He partners with organizations tired of burnout, disengagement, and hollow cultures — and ready to build something better.
Marcel’s work includes:
Executive coaching
Leadership development programs for managers
Keynote speaking and workshops
Executive roundtables and culture strategy sessions
Marcel is the author of Humane Leadership: Lead with Radical Love, Be a Kick-Ass Boss. Whether coaching a CEO or training a leadership team, Marcel’s #1 goal is the same: To help leaders become the kind of people others want to follow.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:03] Introduction: Why fear remains a workplace epidemic
[00:19] How fear kills creativity, collaboration, and profitability
[01:06] Silence in meetings: The hidden cost of fear
[01:58] Why fear stops innovation and risk-taking
[02:34] Fear shrinks organizations from the inside out
[03:51] Psychological safety and team performance (Harvard research)
[04:26] Why leaders still dismiss “soft skills”
[05:13] The cost of waiting for marching orders
[05:49] Burnout, turnover, and quiet disengagement
[06:03] What human-centered leadership looks like
[07:10] Surfacing problems early vs. kicking the can down the road
[08:10] Shared accountability and self-correcting teams
[09:40] Leadership blind spots and fear-driven management
[10:29] Burnout as the final warning sign
[11:30] Why technical skills alone no longer qualify someone to lead
[12:04] Raising human leadership capacity in the AI era
[12:31] Closing thoughts and call to action
3 BEST QUOTES
“If you want to know why creativity dies, why collaboration stalls, why your most talented people are quietly quitting — look for one thing: fear.”
“When fear is prevalent, people protect themselves instead of serving the mission.”
“You cannot afford to choose leaders based only on technical competence or individual performance. Those days are over.”
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Fear Is Expensive Fear doesn’t just hurt feelings — it damages profitability, innovation, and long-term growth.
Silence Is a Warning Sign if meetings are full of nodding heads but no pushback, fear may be driving compliance instead of commitment.
Psychological Safety Drives Performance When employees feel safe to speak up, admit mistakes, and challenge ideas, performance and productivity increase.
Human-Centered Leadership Solves Problems Early. Empowered teams raise concerns quickly, solve issues on the spot, and share accountability across levels.
Leadership Blind Spots Create Fear Many fear-based environments stem from leaders who fear losing control or respect. Coaching and self-awareness are critical.
Technical Skills Aren’t Enough Anymore In the age of AI and automation, the differentiator is human leadership capacity — the ability to help people flourish.
CONCLUSION
Fear quietly shrinks organizations from the inside out. It limits creativity, slows innovation, and pushes good people toward burnout and disengagement. Marcel’s message is clear: if you care about performance, profitability, and long-term growth, you must care about human-centered leadership. The future of leadership isn’t louder authority or tighter control — it’s building environments where people feel safe enough to contribute their best thinking.
The question every leader must ask:
Am I creating safety — or am I creating fear?
Because that answer determines everything.
Resources:
The book: https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Leadership-Lead-Radical-Kick-Ass-ebook/dp/B0CWG3PTL4/
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/
X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MarcelSchwantes1
Instagram: https://instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/
Dr. James Doty Episode: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/dr-james-doty-the-neuroscience-of-manifestation/
Episode recap
Don’t forget Marcel’s special offer to join his Substack community for $8.00/month. Subscribe here: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/subscribe
In this solo episode, Marcel argued that compassion is a core leadership strength, not a soft extra, and that alleviating others’ pain and suffering is a leader’s real work. Through examples like Jeff Weiner and Phil Lynch during 9/11, he showed how leaders who prioritize people, communicate openly, and make space for emotion build stronger, more connected organizations. When leaders show up in hard moments, teams heal faster and perform better.
Bio
Marcel Schwantes is a leadership coach, speaker, author, and advocate for more humane workplaces. He works with organizations that are tired of burnout, disengagement, and hollow cultures — and ready to build something better.
Marcel’s work includes:
Executive coaching
Leadership development programs for managers
Keynote speaking and workshops
Executive roundtables and culture strategy sessions
Marcel is the author of Humane Leadership: Lead with Radical Love, Be a Kick-Ass Boss. Whether coaching a CEO or training a leadership team, Marcel’s #1 goal is the same: To help leaders become the kind of people others want to follow.
Timestamps
[00:03] Why “soft skills” like compassion are actually essential leadership skills
[01:05] Command-and-control vs. compassion: why old leadership models fail
[02:00] Jeff Weiner on compassion as a lifelong practice, not a buzzword
[02:52] Dr. James Doty’s definition of compassion and the science behind it
[03:45] What compassionate leadership looks like in practice
[04:32] 9/11 and Reuters: setting the scene for Phil Lynch’s defining moment
[05:25] “People first, then customers, then the business” — a new priority in crisis
[06:20] Keeping people informed, safe, and emotionally supported
[07:15] Making space for grief, fear, and honest emotions at work
[08:10] How compassion shaped Reuters’ culture and rippled to customers
[08:30] Final reflection: Are you willing to be present with people when they’re suffering
Key Quotes
“If you want to measure yourself against the highest standard of leadership, you have to measure yourself against what people call the ‘soft stuff’—because it’s actually the hardest to master.”
“Compassion is not weakness. Some of the strongest people I know are the most compassionate.”
“Compassion is recognizing someone’s suffering—and then doing what you can to help ease it. It’s not hippy-dippy; it’s evidence-based and deeply human.”
“In the middle of absolute mayhem, Phil Lynch gathered his team and said: ‘People first, then customers, then the business.’ That’s compassionate leadership in action.”
“Leaders who create space for sorrow, confusion, and grief help their organizations heal and reconnect much faster.”
Key Takeaways:
Compassion is an essential leadership skill, not a soft extra.
Compassion is often dismissed as “soft,” but it is one of the hardest and most strategic skills to master. It directly impacts engagement, trust, and long-term performance.
Compassion is both recognition and action.
It’s not enough to notice someone’s pain. Compassion means seeing the suffering and intentionally acting to alleviate it—in conversations, decisions, and policies.
Science backs the power of compassion.
Research highlighted by Dr. James Doty shows compassion is a powerful antidote to loneliness, depression, anxiety, and addiction, all of which show up at work.
People-first leadership is clearest in crisis.
During 9/11, Phil Lynch’s mantra—“People first, then customers, then the business”—became a north star for Reuters. Compassion isn’t theoretical; it’s how leaders rank their priorities when it matters most.
Emotional transparency but safety and trust.
By being open about what he and his team were feeling, Lynch gave others permission to feel and express their own grief and fear, creating psychological and emotional safety.
Compassion shapes emotional culture.
When leaders intentionally make room for grief, questions, and honesty, they shape a culture where people feel seen, heard, and valued—and are proud to belong.
Love in action is a leadership practice.
Compassionate leadership is ultimately love expressed through behavior: how you decide, how you listen, how you show up for people when they’re struggling.
Conclusion
Marcel’s message in this episode is straightforward and challenging: the future of leadership is compassion in action. In a world where mental health struggles and emotional pain are everywhere, leaders can no longer hide behind metrics and control.
The story of Phil Lynch shows that when leaders put people first, especially in the darkest moments, they create cultures of trust, pride, and deep human connection. Compassion is not about being nice for its own sake; it is about being courageously present with suffering and choosing actions that reduce it.
If you want your organization to come alive from the inside out, start with one question: How am I shaping the emotional culture around me—and am I willing to be present when people hurt? That’s where real leadership—and love in action—begins.
Resources:
Guest Mentioned:
Dr. James Doty – Neurosurgeon and compassion researcher; previously featured on the show (link to that episode will be added to the show notes)
People Referenced:
Jeff Weiner – Former CEO of LinkedIn, advocate for compassion as a core leadership skill
Phil Lynch – Former president of Reuters America, whose leadership during 9/11 exemplified compassion in crisis
The book: https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Leadership-Lead-Radical-Kick-Ass-ebook/dp/B0CWG3PTL4/
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/
X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MarcelSchwantes1
Instagram: https://instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/
Dr. James Doty Episode: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/dr-james-doty-the-neuroscience-of-manifestation/
Episode recap
This episode focused on hope in the workplace, starting with a discussion with Dr. Alex Lovell, head researcher and vice president at the O.C. Tanner Institute, and covering a recent O.C. Tanner study that revealed a decline in employee hopefulness. Marcel transitioned to a lively conversation with Jen Fisher, author of Hope Is the Strategy, and one of the world's first chief well-being officers. They explored how leaders can cultivate hope by using language that builds rather than kills hope, emphasizing curiosity, empathy, and transparency. Jen explained that hope requires clear goals, acknowledgment of current reality, and identifying multiple pathways to achieve those goals. They also discussed the limitations of wellness programs alone in improving employee well-being and the need to address cultural and behavioral factors in the workplace. The conversation concluded with Jen encouraging listeners to become "hope dealers" by helping others identify possibilities and support their potential.
Bio:
Jen Fisher is a global authority on workplace well-being, the founder and CEO of The Wellbeing Team and the author of Hope Is the Strategy: The Underrated Skill That Transforms Work, Leadership, and Wellbeing.
Dr. Alex Lovell is the Vice President of the O.C. Tanner Institute and a political psychologist focused on the human side of work—specifically, how organizations can better foster appreciation, identity, belonging, and fulfillment to unlock human potential.
Quotes:
Alex Lovell
Employees are seven times more likely to be engaged when they feel hopeful
When people don’t see a path forward and don’t believe they can follow that path, there is no way they can get there
Recognition and belonging are one of the strongest antidotes to hopelessness
When teams aren’t inclusive, employees are 513 percent more likely to feel burned out
Our younger workers don’t see a future anywhere, not personally and not professionally
Jen Fisher
Hope is not an emotion; it is a cognitive and behavioral process
Do you want to lead a hopeful organization or a hopeless one?
People need to believe that your strategy will leave them better off tomorrow than they are today
Never in the history of telling someone not to worry have they not worried
Be a hope dealer and help people see possibilities
Takeaways:
Hope is a measurable leadership skill that requires clear goals, multiple pathways, and agency
Employees who feel hopeful are significantly more engaged and resilient
Gen Z workers are struggling to see a personal and professional future, making belonging and recognition essential
The language leaders use can either build hope or quietly destroy it
Transparency and telling the whole truth reduce anxiety and strengthen trust
Wellness programs alone cannot fix broken work design or culture
Rebuilding hope starts with identifying and taking the next small step
The future of work must intentionally preserve humanity alongside advancing technology.
Timestamps:
0:00 — Welcome to the Love and Action Podcast
0:33 — Topic Introduction: Hope
2:05 — Introducing Dr. Alex Lovell
4:06 — AI Helping Us to Find Solutions
8:20 — Key Findings: Hopelessness at Work
11:10 — Generational Divide in Hope
14:10 — Gen Z and the Need to Feel Seen
18:05 — Inclusion, Belonging, and Recognition
20:10 — Engagement Link: Hope Drives Performance
22:05 — Practical Solutions: Connection and Relationships
23:10 — Practical Solutions: Goals and Small Wins
24:05 — Where to Find the Report + Resources
23:30 — Jen’s Story: Burnout, Cancer, Caregiving
29:42 — Setting Clear Goals
32:11 — Be the leader Setting Examples
37:10 — Hope as Strategy: Goals, Pathways, Agency
40:10 — Hope in Practice: Leadership Communication
44:07 — Language of Hope: Builders vs Killers
46:00 — Hope Dealers and Possibility Thinking
48:13 — Leading with the Whole Truth
55:15 — Why Wellness Programs Aren’t Enough
55:15 — Human is the Path Forward in Leading Organizations
1:00:05 — Final Takeaways & Closing
Conclusion:
Hope is not wishful thinking, and it is not a soft leadership trait reserved for idealists. It is a disciplined, practical skill that drives engagement, fuels resilience, and restores belief in the future of work. From global research to personal recovery stories, this episode makes one thing clear: when leaders cultivate belonging, speak possibility, and tell the whole truth, people perform differently. In a time when burnout is rising and uncertainty is constant, hope becomes the competitive advantage. The leaders who choose to become hope dealers will not only transform their teams, but they will also shape the future of work itself.
Links/Resources:
Dr. Alexander Lovell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderlovell/
OC Tanner Global Culture Report: https://www.octanner.com/global-culture-report
Jen Fisher website: www.jen-fisher.com
Jen Fisher on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jen-fisher-cwbo/
WorkWell Podcast with Jen Fisher: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-workwell-podcast/id1381561571
O.C. Tanner website: https://www.octanner.com/
O.C. Tanner Global Culture Report: https://www.octanner.com/global-culture-report
Inc. Article Summary: https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/human-resources-hopelessness-epidemic-work-leadership/91246729
Episode #112 with Jen Fisher: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/jen-fisher/
Jen Fisher’s Book “Hope Is the Strategy: The Underrated Skill That Transforms Work, Leadership, and Well-Being”: https://a.co/d/0glJUsxN
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/
Episode recap
Don’t forget to subscribe to my Substack for exclusive access to tools, action plans, long-form articles, book content, and coaching resources to level up your leadership! Subscribe here.
In this episode, Marcel interviewed Frank Danna and Chris Pitre, co-authors of "Love as a Change Strategy," discussing their book's themes and their experience at Softway, a technology company that transformed from a toxic culture to a human-centered organization. The conversation explored how embracing discomfort, prioritizing relationships, and practicing empathetic curiosity can lead to successful organizational change. Frank and Chris shared personal stories about their own transformation journeys and how they apply these principles at Softway. They discussed the importance of leaders modeling change behavior and the role of AI in enhancing human connection at work. The authors emphasized that change should be led, not managed, and highlighted the need for leaders to be intentional with their words and actions.
Guest Bio
Chris Pitre is Vice President at both Culture+ and Softway. Chris has spent his career helping companies reimagine how they work, focusing on how they treat their people and communicate.
Frank Danna serves as the Marketing Director at Softway and is the Co-Founder of Culture+, where he helps leaders transform their leadership through love, empathy, and behavior-based change.
Quotes:
Chris Pitre: “Without a positive or strong culture, it's actually harder to bounce back. Adversity becomes that much scarier and that much more formidable.”
Chris Pitre: “If you are a leader who is about to implement change and you're not uncomfortable, that should be a scary thing.”
Frank Danna: “If you want to change, discomfort is the solution.”
Chris Pitre: “I truly believe that comfort is a privilege and change, and so if you are comfortable, that means that everybody else is paying for your comfort, and likely you are someone who is probably oppressing the team.”
Chris Pitre: “You get to decide at a certain point in your career who you will become: are you the boss that leaves a mark or a scar?”
Takeaways:
Real, sustainable change fails when it’s treated as a technical process instead of a deeply human, emotional experience.
The six principles of change—embracing discomfort, prioritizing relationships, practicing empathetic curiosity, wielding your influence, experimenting, and being effective—act as a flexible “middle layer” between rigid processes and long-term behavior change.
Leaders themselves are often the biggest blockers of transformation when they cling to titles, certainty, and comfort while expecting others to do the hard changing.
Resistance to change is frequently a signal that people feel unheard, and genuine empathetic curiosity can turn resistors into powerful champions.
AI, when introduced from a humane, people-first lens, can remove transactional work and actually create more room for empathy, collaboration, and truly human leadership.
Timestamps:
00:00:02 Introduction and Softway’s turnaround story
00:03:30 Welcoming guests Frank Danna and Christopher Pitre
00:03:55 Frank’s story: from imposter syndrome to belonging
00:05:26 Chris’s story: corporate “robot,” stroke, and the power of workplace community
00:11:36 What Softway does and its evolution to AI-focused transformation
00:15:02 What people get wrong about love as a change strategy and why change fails
00:21:53 The six principles of change
00:24:00 Embracing discomfort and why leaders must feel uneasy
00:27:12 How leaders become the blockers of change
00:31:06 Personal transformation, accountability, and resistance as unheard voices
00:36:21 Rabbit hole: traditional male leadership, narcissism, and the cost to culture
00:40:13 Can AI actually increase humanity and love in the workplace?
00:43:35 Have we missed any essential questions?
00:44:55 Practical ways to lead with love day in and day out
00:47:39 Final takeaways: be like the buffalo and don’t manage change—lead it
00:50:15 Teasing the third book in the series
00:51:08 Where to learn more about Softway, the books, and the podcast
Conclusion:
Love isn’t a soft extra in business—it’s the toughest, most practical strategy for real change. This episode shows how embracing discomfort, listening with empathy, and leading like a “buffalo” through the storm can turn a toxic culture into a place of belonging and growth. Frank and Chris prove that when leaders go first, drop their ego, and put people at the center, both performance and humanity rise. AI, handled with a humane-first mindset, becomes a catalyst—not a threat—for more meaningful, human work. Take what you’ve heard today and decide: will you manage change from a distance, or step in and lead it with love?
Links/Resources:
Softway: https://www.softway.com/
Culture+: https://www.culture-plus.com/
Love as a Strategy: https://www.loveasastrategy.com/
Softway LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teamsoftway/
Culture+ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/culture_plus/
Love as a Change Strategy: https://loveasachangestrategy.com/
Love as a Business Strategy: https://www.loveasabusinessstrategy.com/
Frank Danna on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankDanna/
Chris Pitre on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispitre/
Episode 183 with the CEO of Softway, Mohammad Anwar: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/mohammad-anwar-love-as-a-business-strategy-ep-183/
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/
Episode recap
In this episode, Marcel talks with Robert Glazer, author of The Compass Within, about why core values are essential for effective leadership and meaningful work. Robert explains the difference between aspirational values and actionable core values—non-negotiable principles that guide real decisions and behavior. They explore how values alignment boosts employee engagement, strengthens trust in leaders, and reveals whether an organization’s stated values actually match what it rewards in practice.
The conversation also dives into authenticity, emotional honesty, and how early life experiences shape our values and sense of purpose. Robert shares a practical framework and reflective questions to help people clarify their true core values, arguing that clarity leads to better decisions, healthier leadership, and deeper personal fulfillment. The episode closes with Robert’s mission to help more people discover their “true north” and live with greater integrity and intention
Bio:
Robert Glazer is a globally recognized entrepreneur, speaker, and author. He is the founder and former CEO of a $50M marketing agency with an award-winning, values-driven culture, and the author of multiple bestsellers, including Elevate and Elevate Your Team. His inspirational newsletter, Friday Forward, reaches over 200,000 readers weekly.
Quotes:
I define core values as the non-negotiable principles that decide your actions and behaviors, reflecting who you are, not who you wish you were.
Most of our purpose is tied to pain, but people are afraid to go there and look, even though those formative experiences are where their real values live.
If you can help people figure out their personal core values, you help them become better leaders, because they are going to lead from those values, whether they realize it or not.
Everyone wants the shortcut, but if you really want to figure out your core values, you have to be willing to do the work and spend time with the questions.
When you understand your core values, you gain a dramatic clarity that changes how you live and how you lead.
Takeaways:
Core values are intrinsic, non-negotiable decision rules that show up across all areas of life, not vague one-word aspirations like “integrity” or “family.”
Much of our purpose and many of our values are rooted in formative childhood experiences, especially painful or ignored parts of our story.
Alignment is impossible until you first clarify what you are actually aligning to, which is why defining values must come before trying to “live in alignment.”
Research shows that when people’s work aligns with their values, engagement, trust, life satisfaction, and retention all increase significantly.
Doing the structured inner work, like Robert’s six-question process and core values course, provides a practical pathway to make better long-term decisions about career, relationships, and leadership.
Timestamps:
00:00:00 – 00:02:30 Opening, sponsor message, and Marcel’s setup about authenticity and alignment
00:02:30 – 00:05:56 Introducing Robert Glazer and the story behind The Compass Within
00:05:56 – 00:07:12 Robert’s personal story and how purpose is tied to pain
00:07:12 – 00:14:46 Why this book now, tribalism, and what people get wrong about values
00:14:46 – 00:17:25 Core values, culture, and how companies really reward behavior
00:17:25 – 00:21:17 Data, research, and why values alignment matters at work and in life
00:21:17 – 00:31:43 The six core values questions and live exercise revealing Marcel’s value of authenticity
00:31:43 – 00:36:25 Robert’s own core values and how they play out in his life and leadership
00:36:25 – 00:36:58 The hardest parts of doing core values work and why there is no shortcut
00:36:58 – 00:39:13 Speed round: what makes Robert smile, who inspires him, and bold life choices
00:39:13 – 00:41:00 How to lead with love, Robert’s final takeaway, and where to find his work
Conclusion:
This episode makes one thing crystal clear: if you do not define your values, the world will do it for you. Robert Glazer shows that core values are not fluffy slogans, but the invisible rails that quietly direct every major choice you make. Once you illuminate those rails, you can stop bouncing off the walls of the tunnel and start driving your life and leadership with intention. The stories, data, and live coaching moment with Marcel prove that this inner work is both emotional and incredibly practical. Listen in, then dare yourself to turn on your own “compass within” and see what needs to change.
Links/Resources:
Website: https://robertglazer.com/
Book: https://robertglazer.com/compass/
Core Values Course: www.corevaluescourse.com
Get the Six Questions: https://robertglazer.com/six/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glazer
Episode recap
This episode is brought to you by Peak Performers, a nonprofit staffing agency that champions professionals with disabilities. Learn more at www.peakperformers.org.
This week on the Love in Action Podcast, I welcomed back Bob Chapman and Raj Sisodia for a powerful conversation about what happens when leadership is rooted in genuine care. We talk about the 10th anniversary edition of their seminal classic, Everybody Matters, and why the book and movement continue to resonate around the world. We break down why people-centered leadership is more urgent than ever, and how treating people with care, dignity, and respect isn’t just the right thing to do, it’s what builds strong, resilient organizations. If you care about creating workplaces where people actually thrive, this episode is for you.
BOB CHAPMAN is the chairman of Barry-Wehmiller. A sought-after speaker on human-centered leadership, business growth, sustained performance, and culture transformation, Chapman strives to use his business leadership platform to build a better world.
RAJ SISODIA is a cofounder of the Conscious Capitalism movement and a pioneering voice in the global business renaissance. He is the author or coauthor of 16 books, including The New York Times bestseller Conscious Capitalism (with John P. Mackey of Whole Foods Market).
Quotes:
We have a hunger for caring in the world, and this book addresses caring.
The way we lead impacts the way people live.
Business could be the most powerful force for good in the world if we simply knew how to care for the people we have the privilege of leading.
You cannot ask people to care for others; you must teach them the human skills of caring.
You cannot lead the people unless you love the people, and you cannot love the people unless you know the people.
Takeaways:
Truly Human Leadership reframes business from an economic relationship to a deeply human relationship where people are the purpose.
Caring is a learnable skill that must be intentionally taught, not just requested or assumed.
The person you report to at work can affect your health more than your family doctor.
Most business education still focuses on numbers and profit while bypassing the human heart and soul.
Conscious, caring leadership positively ripples into marriages, families, and even future generations.
Timestamps:
00:00:03 Opening and introduction of Bob Chapman and Raj Sisodia
00:02:33 Tenth anniversary of Everybody Matters and why it still matters
00:06:01 Origin story and why the book had to be written
00:08:02 Lessons from a decade of impact and stress testing through crisis
00:11:24 How leadership at work shapes health, marriage, and family life
00:16:15 What business schools still get wrong about leadership and purpose
00:21:08 How Everybody Matters deepened the idea of conscious capitalism
00:25:22 What Truly Human Leadership really means beyond just being nice
00:30:30 Stories of companies transformed by caring cultures
00:34:04 Why the wrong people often rise and how to rethink who becomes a leader
00:39:20 A message that can heal business, education, and society
00:44:18 Love, leadership, and practical caring in everyday management
00:46:00 Conclusion
Conclusion:
This conversation shows that leadership is not about titles or metrics, but about the lives entrusted to you. Bob and Raj reveal that when leaders choose to care, organizations do not just perform better; people become healthier, more hopeful, and more connected at home. They challenge the prevailing belief that profit must come before people and instead show how human dignity and strong business performance can reinforce each other. The episode also exposes how our education and promotion systems neglect the human side of work, and why teaching caring skills is no longer optional. In the end, listeners are invited to see business as a profound opportunity to practice love in action so that, in every workplace, everybody truly matters.
Links/Resources:
The Book: https://www.amazon.com/Everybody-Matters-Extraordinary-Caring-People/dp/1591847796/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0
Bob Chapman - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-chapman-89b936b8/
Raj Sisodia - https://rajsisodia.com/
Barry-Wehmiller - https://www.barrywehmiller.com/
Conscious Capitalism - https://www.consciouscapitalism.org/
Truly Human Leadership - https://www.barrywehmiller.com/blog
Bob Chapman, Episode #6: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/bob-chapman/
Raj Sisodia, Episode #36: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/raj-sisodia/
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
Episode recap
This episode is brought to you by Peak Performers, a nonprofit staffing agency that champions professionals with disabilities. Learn more at www.peakperformers.org
If you’ve ever wondered what shaped Ken Blanchard into one of the most trusted leadership voices of our time, this episode offers a rare behind-the-scenes look. I sat down with Martha Lawrence—Ken’s longtime friend, collaborator, and biographer—and what unfolded was a rich mix of humor, history, and heart. In her new book, “Catch People Doing Things Right: How Ken Blanchard Changed the Way the World Leads,” Martha reveal the real Ken. She walks through her own journey as well—how a post-9/11 turning point led her to Blanchard’s organization and eventually to writing the definitive biography that captures his wisdom, quirks, and quiet resilience.
Bio
A former editor at Simon & Schuster and Harcourt, Martha C. Lawrence has shaped the voices of some of the world’s most successful thought leaders. As executive editor at Blanchard, she has collaborated with Ken Blanchard for more than 20 years. Her editing credits include multimillion-copy bestsellers and #1 New York Times titles. Lawrence is passionate about leadership, storytelling, and capturing legacies that matter. She is the author “Catch People Doing Things Right: How Ken Blanchard Changed the Way the World Leads.”
Quotes:
I knew I could not have worked alongside a human being who not only was so innovative and intelligent and heart-centered, but who lived the same things he's teaching.
If one of the takeaways from the book is that you don't have to be perfect to be successful.
You want to lift people—you want to catch them doing things right.
Takeaways:
True leadership is based on humility, trust, and the authentic desire to lift others up.
Setbacks and personal challenges can become sources of strength and inspiration.
Servant leadership means supporting your team from the bottom up, not ruling from the top.
The best leaders are those who make others feel valued and recognized for their contributions.
Lifelong learning and collaboration can fuel both personal and organizational growth.
Timestamps:
0:00:00 — Sponsor Message & Podcast Welcome
0:01:30 — Marcel introduces Ken Blanchard's influence and today’s theme
0:02:30 — Introducing guest Martha C. Lawrence and her background
0:05:00 — Martha shares her story and career path
0:07:30 — Martha discusses overcoming personal adversity
0:10:54 — How Martha began working with Ken Blanchard
0:12:54 — Inspiration to write Ken’s biography
0:16:09 — Ken’s connections and meeting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
0:19:33 — How Ken’s parents shaped his leadership values
0:21:21 — The inverted pyramid and servant leadership explained
0:23:13 — Ken’s mentors, co-authors, and learning philosophy
0:25:07 — Ken’s personal and professional setbacks
0:27:38 — Ken’s humor and breaking the rules
0:31:26 — The evolution of Ken’s servant leadership philosophy
0:33:39 — "The One Minute Manager"—origins and impact
0:35:54 — Are the principles of "The One Minute Manager" still relevant?
0:37:51 — Research and surprises from Ken's archives
0:39:57 — Including love in leadership and chapter discussion
0:42:42 — What readers can gain from the book; catching people doing things right
0:45:08 — Distinguishing between care and love in leadership
0:47:39 — Speed Round: What makes Martha smile, her inspirations, and hopes
0:53:33 — The big takeaway: Leadership is love
0:54:25 — Where to find Martha and Ken’s resources online
0:55:01 — Closing gratitude and episode wrap-up
Conclusion:
The stories shared in this episode remind us that genuine leadership is shaped by humility, resilience, and compassion. Ken Blanchard’s journey proves that success is rooted as much in character as in achievement. Martha’s perspective brings to life the transformative effect of working alongside a true role model. Their experiences illustrate that lifting other and embracing authenticity can leave a legacy that outlasts any title. As you move forward, ask yourself: how can you lead with more heart in your own life and work?
Links/Resources:
www.marthalawrence.com
www.blanchard.com
www.kenblanchardbooks.com
Episode #3: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-in-action/id1456073489?i=1000433623822
Episode #122: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/ken-blanchard-2/
This episode is brought to you by Peak Performers, a nonprofit staffing agency that champions professionals with disabilities. Learn more at www.peakperformers.org
Episode recap:
Today’s guest is Bree Sarlati, President and CEO of Peak Performers, a nonprofit staffing agency that champions professionals with disabilities. Sarlati is leading Peak Performers’ mission to raise the standard of employment for people with disabilities. She breaks down the biases that still shape hiring and explains how Peak is proving that skilled talent is everywhere. We discuss how to build inclusive teams and how Peak is scaling nationally while staying deeply human-centered. Bree also shares their “Talent Without Limits” initiative and explains how her team is integrating AI into recruiting without losing empathy or accountability.
BIO:
Bree Sarlati is a pragmatic strategist known for turning complexity into clarity. As CEO of Peak Performers, Bree has led the organization's national expansion, modernizing operations, embracing new technology, and scaling its mission beyond Texas. Her focus on agility ensures that even as Peak grows, it never loses the human touch that defines its work. Bree has a talent for spotting potential that others miss and for connecting people with opportunities that move them forward. Passionate about disability employment and gender equity in leadership, she champions fair, future-ready systems and brings clarity, curiosity, and a people-first approach when the stakes are high.
Quotes:
Our mission as a non-profit has always been to set a higher standard of employment for people with disabilities.
We stay focused on the candidates who are going through one of the most stressful experiences of their lives, which is job searching. That's a time when we should be very aware of people's human-level needs.
A CEO always needs to be looking inward and asking, 'What skills do I need to add to take this organization to where I want it to go?
Takeaways:
Inclusive hiring unlocks hidden talent and drives organizational success.
Disabilities encompass many unseen conditions and should be understood broadly.
Technology can scale impact without sacrificing the human connection in recruiting.
Agile leadership starts with self-awareness and adapting to constant change.
Empathy and respect should guide all workplace interactions and decision-making.
Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introduction and Overview of Peak Performers
00:02:30 Bree Sarlati’s Journey and Passion for Storytelling
00:08:40 Peak Performers’ Mission and Redefining Disability Employment
00:14:20 Challenges and Evolution in Disability-Inclusive Hiring
00:21:00 The Importance of Agility and Leadership Self-Awareness
00:26:30 Building Agile, Human-Centered Teams
00:32:00 Leveraging Technology Without Losing the Human Touch
00:36:30 The “Talent Without Limits” Initiative
00:41:00 The Role of Empathy, AI, and Creativity in Modern Recruiting
00:45:30 Leading with Love, Key Takeaways, and Final Thoughts
00:49:00 Connecting with Bree Sarlati and Closing Remarks
Conclusion:
As this inspiring conversation draws to a close, reflect on how inclusive hiring can transform both businesses and lives. We have learned that true agility in leadership comes from embracing change with empathy and purpose. Peak Performers shows us that technology and human connection can coexist to build workplaces of belonging. The journey to future-ready teams begins by recognizing untapped potential and challenging our own assumptions. Let us carry these lessons forward and strive to create workplaces where everyone has the opportunity to thrive.
Links/Resources:
Peak Performers Website: https://www.peakperformers.org/
Peak Performers on LinkedIn (Company Page): https://www.linkedin.com/company/peak-performers-staffing-agency/
Bree Sarlati on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bree-sarlati/
Don’t forget Marcel’s special offer to join his Substack community. Subscribe here:
https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/subscribe
Episode recap:
This episode explores a quiet but powerful turning point many high-achieving leaders face in midlife, when success no longer feels fulfilling. It names the real issue—not burnout, but misalignment between a leader’s outer accomplishments and inner values—and reframes it as a necessary recalibration rather than a crisis. Through reflection, values realignment, and intentional listening, leaders can reconnect with meaning, purpose, and a more authentic way of leading and living.
Bio:
Marcel Schwantes is a speaker, author, and acclaimed executive coach with a global following. Recognized by Inc. Magazine as one of the Top 50 Leadership and Management Experts in 2025, Marcel’s thought leadership reaches millions each month through global media like Inc., Time, Fast Company, Business Insider, and Forbes. Marcel delivers presentations, workshops, courses, and coaching programs about the human side of business and how cultures of care, connection, and belonging power companies to thrive and outperform the competition.
Quotes:
True fulfillment begins when you pause to listen to your inner voice, not just your outer achievements.
The greatest crisis we face in midlife is not failure but living a life out of alignment with who we truly are.
Success without meaning will always leave you feeling restless and incomplete.
When you dare to revisit your core values, you rediscover the energy and purpose that fuel your next chapter.
Your next breakthrough starts when you ask what decision moves you closer to who you are becoming.
Takeaways:
External accomplishments alone cannot bring lasting fulfillment without inner alignment.
Regular stillness and reflection are essential to connect with your true values and desires.
Midlife is not a crisis, but a powerful opportunity for recalibration and growth.
Simple daily questions and journaling can reveal the real story of who you are now.
Realigning your life with your authentic self opens the door to deeper joy, meaning, and impact.
Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introduction & The Hidden Question Behind Success
00:01:40 Success Achieved, Emptiness Remains
00:03:20 The Disconnect of “Going Through the Motions.”
00:05:00 Decades of Momentum & Inner Tiredness
00:06:40 Playing a Character & Seeking Deeper Meaning
00:08:20 Facing Burnout & The Concept of Misalignment
00:10:00 Rediscovering Values and Building Self-Awareness
00:11:40 Time to Pivot: Steps for Realignment
00:13:20 Grounding Yourself with Daily Questions
00:15:00 Journaling Exercise, Reflections & Outro
Conclusion:
True fulfillment starts when you stop chasing more and start tuning into what matters most within. The path to congruence is not about abandoning your achievements but about aligning them with your deepest values and desires. Remember, the discomfort you feel is really an invitation that serves as a wake-up call to a richer, more meaningful season of life. By embracing stillness, revisiting your core values, and asking powerful questions, you can chart a new course that feels genuinely right for you. Your next chapter is waiting, so are you ready to write it with purpose and passion?
Links/Resources:
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@MarcelSchwantes1
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/
Episode recap:
Subscribe to Marcel’s Substack here:
https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/subscribe
Marcel Schwantes opens Season 10 with gratitude and a renewed call for better leadership. He previews more solo episodes in 2026 and emphasizes that a leadership strategy only works when a leader’s character and inner operating system are solid. He reframes authentic leadership as humility, self-honesty, and service. Authenticity starts with self-awareness, supported by a weekly reflection: where you lived your values, where you drifted, and what triggered it. He links authentic leadership to well-being by urging leaders to remove friction, create clarity, support mental health, and help people connect to purpose—since burnout often stems from a loss of meaning, not just workload.
Bio:
Marcel Schwantes is a speaker, author, and acclaimed executive coach with a global following. Recognized by Inc. Magazine as one of the Top 50 Leadership and Management Experts in 2025, Marcel’s thought leadership reaches millions each month through global media like Inc., Time, Fast Company, Business Insider, and Forbes. Marcel delivers presentations, workshops, courses, and coaching programs about the human side of business and how cultures of care, connection, and belonging power companies to thrive and outperform the competition.
Quotes:
"You become a far more effective leader the moment you stop performing leadership and start practicing it."
"Authentic leadership always, always starts with self-honesty."
"Humility is a performance enhancer, not just a personality trait."
"Great leaders aren't afraid of holding up the mirror; they invite feedback and treat it like data, not judgment."
"Real authentic leadership exists to meet real human needs."
Takeaways:
Authentic leadership begins with self-honesty and removing the mask.
Humility allows leaders to learn, grow, and truly connect with others.
Seeking and acting on feedback transforms workplace relationships.
Meeting the real needs of people is at the heart of effective leadership.
Redefining leadership with authenticity, humility, and service sets the stage for a thriving culture.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction & Podcast Purpose
03:26 2026 Podcast Direction & New Year Focus
06:00 Principles of Authentic Leadership
08:30 Practical Implementation Tips
14:45 Conclusion & Call to Action
Conclusion:
As we close out this episode, remember that real leadership begins with honesty, humility, and a genuine commitment to serving others. By embracing authenticity and staying true to your values, you create space for growth, trust, and lasting impact. Let this new year be your opportunity to lead with heart, listen deeply, and elevate the people around you. True change starts from within, and your leadership can set the tone for a better tomorrow.
Links/Resources:
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes
YouTube: hhttps://www.youtube.com/@MarcelSchwantes1
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/
Episode recap
Vanessa Druskat, social and organizational psychologist and author of The Emotionally Intelligent Team, joined the Love In Action podcast to unpack what truly separates average teams from exceptional ones. Her decades of research reveal that it’s not brilliance at the top or superstar individual contributors that drive sustained performance. The real differentiator is a team’s emotional ecosystem—the shared norms, routines, and habits that create trust, belonging, and collaborative energy. By shaping the everyday habits discussed, leaders can create a culture where people feel safe, energized, and committed—conditions that ultimately drive exceptional performance.
Bio
Vanessa Druskat is an associate professor at the Peter T. Paul College of Business and Economics at the University of New Hampshire. As an internationally recognized leadership and team performance expert, Vanessa Druskat advises leaders and teams at over a dozen Fortune 500 and Fortune Global 500 companies. She is the recipient of multiple research and teaching awards. She is the author of The Emotionally Intelligent Team.
Quotes:
“We spend a lot of time trying to hire the best people or fix people, but we don’t spend enough time asking the collective what it needs to work better together.”
“To experience belongingness, a person must feel seen, known, understood, and supported by the entire team. We are wired to perform at our best under these conditions.”
“Leaders have the power to change their teams’ cultures and add practices that respect members’ universal human need to belong.”
Takeaways:
Emotionally intelligent teams thrive by creating routines that build trust, psychological safety, and belonging.
Successful collaboration is driven by helping team members succeed, improving constantly, and seeking new ideas.
Understanding teammates’ unique strengths and personalities is key to engagement and high performance.
Addressing unacceptable behavior with caring, actionable feedback strengthens team dynamics.
Leaders should assess team needs regularly and set collective norms to foster a culture of continuous improvement.
Timestamps:
0:00:02 Introduction & Episode Overview
0:02:40 Guest Welcome & Background
0:05:32 Motivations for Studying Teams
0:07:10 Defining Team Emotional Intelligence
0:10:40 Team Norms & Three Core Buckets
0:15:33 Helping One Another Succeed
0:16:37 Understanding Team Members
0:18:55 Demonstrating Caring
0:23:15 Addressing Unacceptable Behavior
0:29:43 Measuring Team Success
0:32:11 Groupthink & Decision Making
0:33:29 Speed Round: Personal Insights
0:36:26 Hopes for 2026
0:37:53 Leadership, Love, and Final Advice
0:40:53 Connecting with Vanessa Druskat
0:41:41 Closing Remarks
Conclusion:
As we wrap up this episode, remember that extraordinary teams aren’t built by perfect individuals—they’re powered by collective trust, curiosity, and care. Let today be your reminder to reach out, understand, and uplift those around you. When we lead with empathy and foster true connection, the results speak for themselves. Here’s to building teams where every voice matters, and collaboration leads the way.
Links/Resources:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-druskat/
Website - https://www.vanessadruskat.com/
Team EI Survey – https://www.vanessadruskat.com/survey
Book - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1647824877?tag=bk00010a-20&th=1&psc=1&geniuslink=true
University of New Hampshire - https://paulcollege.unh.edu/person/vanessa-druskat
Episode recap
What happens when a West Point–trained Army Ranger turns his convictions about faith, entrepreneurship, and country into a fast-growing, American-made apparel brand? In this episode, Marcel sits down with Dean Wegner, founder and CEO of Authentically American, to explore how military discipline, servant leadership, and a mission-driven business model are reshaping what “Made in the USA” can mean today.
Note: You can purchase one of the sweat-activated T-shirts here: https://www.authenticallyamerican.us/collections/army-west-point-screenprint
If you use the code FOUNDER, you will get 25% off.
Bio:
Dean Wegner is the Founder and CEO of Authentically American, a Veteran-owned, American-made premium apparel brand. They are a company that celebrates patriotism, supports the American worker, and donates 10% of its profits to Veteran and First Responder charities. A West Point graduate, Dean served 7 years as a helicopter pilot and Army Ranger. Dean and Authentically American have been featured in Forbes, Inc. Magazine, FOX News, MSNBC, Nasdaq, Newsmax TV, and SiriusXM Radio.
Quotes:
“When things are really challenging, you cannot do it on your own. You need a team.”
“No one cares about how much you know until they know how much you care.”
“You do not get to sing second unless you have a tireless work ethic.”
Takeaways:
Servant leadership becomes even more important in moments of difficulty
Values create the foundation for how a leader shows up each day
Having a Ranger buddy or trusted partner increases your chances of success
Great ideas do not always come from the leader; they come from the team
Mission-driven work fuels perseverance and purpose
Timestamps:
[01:55] Dean joins and aligns with servant leadership
[02:13] Dean shares his personal story and values
[03:27] What Authentically American is and why American-made matters
[04:38] The impact of creating American jobs
[05:45] Business model explanation and pricing strategy
[06:49] Military experiences shaping Dean as a leader
[08:53] The meaning of sing second and respect in leadership
[11:15] Leadership lessons from Ranger School and corporate life
[15:20] Servant leadership during challenging times
[16:27] Counterintuitive leadership lesson about thought leadership
[18:15] Advice for aspiring founders and servant leaders
[19:16] Future growth and building a sales team
[20:34] Dean demos the sweat-activated T-shirt
[23:29] Custom apparel for businesses and nonprofits
[24:08] How Authentically American serves charities at cost
[25:09] Speed round: family, fitness, and inspirations
[27:29] Dean’s biggest hope for 2026
[28:33] Leading with practical love in action
[29:19] Final takeaway about having a Ranger buddy
[30:09] How to connect with Dean and the brand
[31:06] Closing remarks and Army-Navy game reminder
Conclusion:
Dean Wegner leaves listeners with a clear message that leadership is ultimately an act of service. Through his military lessons, commitment to American manufacturing, and daily devotion to putting others first, he demonstrates that meaningful leadership is built on humility, teamwork, and purpose. His story calls us to lead with care, stay rooted in our values, and pursue missions that create real impact in the lives of others.
Links/Resources:
Website: https://www.authenticallyamerican.us/
Dean Wegner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanwegner93/
Facebook: @AuthenticallyAmericanCo
Instagram: @authentically_american
Episode Recap
This week on the podcast, I sat down with Dr. Jaime Goff — executive coach, therapist, and author of The Secure Leader. Our conversation goes deep into something many leaders feel but rarely explore: how our early attachment patterns quietly follow us into the workplace.
Dr. Jaime breaks attachment theory down into something extremely practical for leaders. At the core are two questions we all carry:
Am I worthy of connection?
Can I trust others to show up for me?
Our answers tend to show up at work in three ways. One of those ways is that of a “secure leader”: Grounded, steady, and empowering — the hallmark of modern servant leadership.
Leaders who do the inner work of a Secure Leader create workplaces where people can flourish.
Guest Bio
Dr. Jaime Goff is the founder of The Empathic Leader, LLC, where she specializes in helping leaders unlock their full potential through executive coaching, insightful workshops, and thought-provoking keynotes. Jaime holds a PhD in Couple and Family Therapy from Michigan State University and a graduate certificate in executive coaching from Southern Methodist University
Quotes:
“We are not prisoners to our previous patterns, because we all have the power to become more secure.”
“Your leadership is shaped long before you ever enter a leadership role.”
“To love others well as a leader, you first have to believe you are worthy of love yourself.”
“Emotional regulation is the first step toward showing up as a secure and present leader.”
“All behavior makes sense in context, especially when you understand your story.”
Takeaways:
“We are not prisoners to our previous patterns, because we all have the power to become more secure.”
“Your leadership is shaped long before you ever enter a leadership role.”
“To love others well as a leader, you first have to believe you are worthy of love yourself.”
“Emotional regulation is the first step toward showing up as a secure and present leader.”
“All behavior makes sense in context, especially when you understand your story.”
Timestamps:
00:02 Intro and podcast milestones
05:12 Meet Dr. Jaime Goff and her personal story
07:21 The “latchkey kid” upbringing and over-independence
10:55 Why she wrote The Secure Leader
13:26 Attachment theory explained
15:21 How unworthiness shapes controlling or approval-seeking leadership
18:50 Jaime’s aha moment as a young leader
21:34 Gaining awareness and deconstructing your story
24:07 Avoidant, anxious, and secure leadership styles
28:44 Trauma, triggers, and past patterns repeating at work
32:18 The cost of skipping inner work
37:49 First steps to becoming a secure leader
40:06 Where to take the Secure Leader style scan
41:37 Speed round
45:52 Jaime’s hope for more secure leadership
48:31 Leading with love and building self-worth
50:56 Final takeaway on moving slow to move fast
52:57 How to connect with Dr. Jaime Goff
Conclusion:
As we close this inspiring conversation, remember that real leadership begins within. When you commit to self-discovery, you build the foundation to lead others with empathy, purpose, and resilience. Growth is a lifelong journey where each step forward helps you make a positive impact on those around you. Lead with clarity, nurture meaningful connections, and watch your influence create ripples of transformation in your team and beyond.
Links/Resources:
Website (take the assessment)- https://drjaimegoff.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjaimegoff/
Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Secure-Leader-Discover-Leadership-Story/dp/B0FBZ39H8Y/
Email Dr. Goff: jaime@drjaimegoff.com
Episode recap
In this episode, I sat down with Dr. Martin Dubin — a clinical psychologist turned entrepreneur and executive coach — to unpack the blind spots that quietly sabotage leaders. Marty’s journey from therapy rooms to boardrooms shaped his book Blindspotting, where he helps executives see what they can’t see about themselves. We dug into why even the smartest leaders miss their own patterns, how to build self-awareness without beating yourself up, and why humility and small shifts matter more than big transformations.
Key Insights:
Blind spots aren’t flaws — they’re unseen patterns. Marty explained how our minds naturally focus on familiar territory, leaving some behaviors invisible to us.
Six areas to watch: identity, motives, traits, emotions, intellect, and behavior — all interconnected layers that shape how leaders show up.
Awareness beats overhaul. Growth happens through small, intentional adjustments, not massive self-reinventions.
Humility is the gateway to insight. The best leaders don’t try to be perfect — they stay curious about what they might be missing.
Self-awareness drives effectiveness. Understanding your motives and emotional triggers helps you lead with more clarity, empathy, and confidence.
BIO:
Martin Dubin is a clinical psychologist, serial entrepreneur, business coach, and adviser to C-suite executives and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. He founded several companies, including a multimillion-dollar health care company where he also served as CEO. A former coach at the Center for Creative Leadership and a partner at talent firm RHR International, he worked directly with hundreds of C-suite senior executives from Fortune 500 companies and with Silicon Valley venture capital firms and their portfolio companies.
Quotes:
“Self-awareness is the single most important tool of your leadership.”
“You are the tool of your leadership, so the better you know yourself, the better you lead.”
“Your greatest strength becomes a blind spot the moment you overdo it.”
“Stress narrows your motives, so you default to survival instead of wise leadership.”
“Real change in leaders comes from small tweaks, not dramatic transformation.”
Takeaways:
Name your core strengths, then ask what happens when you are too much of that strength to uncover likely blind spots.
Notice when your role has changed but your identity has not and ask if you are still leading like your old job.
Pay attention to emotional overreactions after meetings; they are clues to motives or values you may not fully understand.
Stop trying to be the smartest person in the room and start asking more questions to draw out the intelligence of your team.
Focus on small, intentional behavioral changes rather than chasing a complete personal transformation.
Timestamps:
[00:00] Marcel’s intro: why what used to work in leadership suddenly stops working
[02:40] Marty’s story from clinical psychologist to entrepreneur to executive coach
[07:20] The spark behind Blind Spotting and why entrepreneurs reveal raw blind spots
[09:06] Why is it so hard for leaders to see their own blind spots
[11:31] The six blind spot areas and the “target” model are explained
[13:15] Identity blind spots and the pain of transitioning into new roles
[16:12] Traits, emotions, and intellect as hard-to-change parts of our wiring
[20:37] Emotional blind spots, EQ, and using feelings strategically at work
[22:41] Different kinds of intellect and how over-reliance on smarts backfires
[27:49] Motives at the center: power, achievement, affiliation, and values
[32:30] How stress distorts motives and narrows our leadership choices
[33:16] A simple exercise to find blind spots by adding “too” to your strengths
[34:17] Why sustainable growth comes from small behavioral tweaks, not wholesale reinvention
[35:13] Speed round: what makes Marty smile, big life lessons, and hopes for the future
[37:45] Leading with love by accepting yourself and using what you have
[38:16] Final takeaway: start somewhere small and let self-awareness do its work
Conclusion:
This conversation reminds us that leadership is fundamentally an inside job. Blind spots are not signs of failure but evidence that we are human, shaped by patterns, histories, and motives we do not always see. By understanding identity shifts, naming our traits and emotional patterns, and getting honest about what truly drives us, we gain more choice in how we show up. Rather than chasing dramatic transformation, Marty urges leaders to embrace small, focused behavioral changes—asking more questions, listening longer, or dialing down an overused strength. Over time, those small tweaks compound into deeper authenticity, healthier relationships, and more effective, human-centered leadership.
Links/Resources:
Website: https://www.martindubin.com/
Blind Spotting assessment and resources: https://www.blindspotting.com/
Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DRZFK8J6?tag=bk00010a-20&th=1&psc=1&geniuslink=true
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Episode Recap:
In this Love in Action episode, Marcel sits down with neuroscientist and author Dr. Paul Zak to unpack what truly makes us happy—and how love, connection, and neuroscience intersect to create thriving workplaces and healthier lives. Drawing on research from The Little Book of Happiness and his company, Immersion Neuroscience, Zak reveals how happiness isn’t just a feeling—it’s a measurable state shaped by our relationships, daily choices, and leadership behaviors.
Bio:
Paul Zak is a distinguished university professor at Claremont Graduate University. His research has taken him from the Pentagon to Fortune 50 boardrooms to the rainforest of Papua New Guinea. He is ranked among the top 0.3 percent of most cited scientists, with over 200 published research articles. His lab and company, Immersion Neuroscience, help people live longer, happier, and healthier lives.
Quotes:
"Vulnerability is one of the best ways to build bonds with people, whether in your family, your circle of friends, or your professional team and organization. Vulnerability teaches them that you are approachable and that you need others to help you develop answers and embrace feedback."
"The more you go in an organization, the more people you lead, the more you become a role model. You're also visible as a role model to people you do not interact with daily, both inside and outside your organization."
"If the map differs from the terrain, go with the terrain. This means assessing the situation in real time, getting inputs from every team member on that special assignment, and making a new plan, which hopefully is a winning plan."
Takeaways:
·Reflect on Your Leadership Style: Take 10 minutes to write down how you respond to mistakes and feedback. Are you open to vulnerability, or do you default to defensiveness? Identify one behavior you can adjust to build trust with your team.
· Build Genuine Connections: Schedule one conversation this week with a team member to learn their personal or professional story. Ask questions that show you care about their perspective and challenges.
·Challenge Long-Held Beliefs: Identify one assumption you rely on when making decisions. Ask yourself, “What if this isn’t true?” and explore how adapting your approach could improve outcomes.
Practice “Fearless Learning”: Pick a recent setback and outline what went wrong without assigning blame. Write down one concrete action to improve your approach next time.
Create a Commitment Plan: Draft a one-page outline with three areas to focus on: how you’ll lead yourself, lead your team, and lead your organization. Revisit it regularly to stay aligned with your goals.
Timestamps:
[00:00] Introduction & Why Happiness Matters
[04:00] The Science Behind Social Connection
[08:00] Redefining Happiness for Introverts
[10:00] The 45 Cardinal Virtues Explained
[12:00] The Six App and Measuring Key Moments
[17:00] How the Brain Creates Happiness
[19:00] Longevity and Social Bonds
[20:00] Love vs. Fear in Leadership
[24:00] Oxytocin, Trust, and Connection
[30:00] Healing Division Through Empathy
[33:00] Emotional Fitness and Therapy
[36:00] Building Happy, Sustainable Organizations
[38:00] Personal Lessons & Reflections
[44:00] Leading with Love and Practical Kindness
[45:00] Final Takeaways & Resources
Conclusion:
To thrive in today’s demanding world, leaders must embrace human-centric leadership. Great leadership starts with self-awareness and a commitment to personal growth. By fostering empathy, encouraging open feedback, and seeing vulnerability as a strength, leaders create environments where teams feel valued and empowered. Practicing fearless learning—letting go of rigid assumptions—enables leaders to adapt and guide their organizations through uncertainty. Ultimately, the most effective leaders prioritize authentic relationships, inclusion, and continuous growth, ensuring their teams can innovate, collaborate, and succeed while building cultures that endure beyond immediate challenges.
Links/Resources:
Website: https://www.getimmersion.com/
Download the SIX app here: https://your6.com/
Book: https://a.co/d/9IIYijt
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-zak-91123510/
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Episode recap:
In this powerful conversation with Mark C. Crowley, author of Lead from the Heart and The Power of Employee Wellbeing, we discussed the growing realization that employee engagement without well-being is hollow—and how genuine human connection, frequent feedback, and emotional awareness drive real performance.
Other highlights from the episode:
Why belonging is the new foundation of well-being.
How unresolved trauma shapes leadership—and how awareness leads to healing.
Why resilient leaders embrace uncertainty and learn through “two-way doors.”
How care and accountability together create workplaces people want to stay in.
Mark’s message is simple but radical: when people feel cared for, they thrive—and so do organizations.
Tune in to explore how leading with heart isn’t soft—it’s smart, strategic, and deeply human.
Guest Bio:
With twenty-five years in the competitive financial services industry, Mark C. Crowley rose to national roles, earning Leader of the Year for his emotionally connected, heart-centered approach that drove exceptional performance and employee growth. His book Lead from the Heart (2011, second edition 2023) disrupted conventional management with research proving that traditional methods undermine employee achievement. Now taught in eleven universities, it ignited a global movement for humane leadership. In his new book, The Power of Employee Well-Being, he advances this vision, demonstrating that thriving teams fuel organizational success. Mark’s Lead from the Heart podcast, ranked in the top 1.5 percent globally, reaches 175+ countries.
Quotes:
Feelings and emotions drive behavior. Engagement is literally a decision of the heart."
"If you don't know yourself, how could you possibly manage other people? You're not well-informed."
"Belonging isn't just connection. It's emotional safety, respect, and the freedom to be who you are."
"When you make decisions, think about how they'll make people feel. That's what it means to lead with love."
"The work experience should not be something people dread. Create a culture where people want to belong."
Key Takeaways
Know yourself before you lead others. Reflect on your upbringing and motivations. Hidden childhood influences often shape your leadership habits.
Clarify your values. Define what you stand for, and let those values guide every decision—even when it costs you short-term success.
Build belonging. Create environments where people feel safe, respected, and accepted for who they are.
Lead with love. You don't need to say "I love you" at work. You show it by caring about how people feel and treating them with kindness.
Embrace uncertainty. Replace fear with curiosity and experimentation—model calm confidence during change.
Timestamps
[00:02] The failure of the engagement industry
[02:29] Mark's return to the show and his new book, The Power of Employee Well-Being
[02:52] A childhood without love shaped a new kind of leadership philosophy
[07:13] The evolution of "heart-based" leadership and why it's now mainstream
[10:59] Why engagement hasn't improved in 12 years—and how companies got it wrong
[16:51] Moving from engagement to well-being as a leadership priority
[17:23] The first key drivers of well-being: Know thyself and know thy values
[24:03] Why values matter more than performance—and the courage to protect culture
[27:15] The most significant driver of well-being: Belonging and emotional safety
[30:41] How to lead through uncertainty with confidence and hope
[37:04] The link between childhood wounds and leadership behavior
[41:52] Why workplace change is inevitable—and how well-being is the future
[48:56] How to lead with actionable love every day
[51:17] Why work should never be something people dread
[53:13] Where to connect with Mark and explore his work
Conclusion:
Mark C. Crowley's message is clear: the future of leadership depends on humanity. Employee engagement may have stalled, but well-being is the key to unlocking performance, retention, and innovation. When leaders know themselves, honor their values, and build genuine belonging, they create workplaces where people thrive. Leading with love isn't soft—it's strategic.
Links/Resources:
Website – https://markccrowley.com/
Book - https://www.amazon.com/Power-Employee-Well-Being-Engagement-Flourishing/dp/B0DRXGD4YK/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/markccrowley/
Podcast - https://markccrowley.com/podcasts/
Thank You!
Today’s episode is made possible by TerraSlate. TerraSlate Waterproof Paper is waterproof, rip-proof, and recyclable — no more laminating sheets, and no more wasted paper. TerraSlate prints through any standard laser printer and can be written on with a regular ballpoint pen. Powered by 100% renewable energy and recently named a Denver Broncos Small Business Partner, TerraSlate combines durability with sustainability. From ocean dives to mountain summits, it’s trusted by the NFL, the U.S. military, and Michelin-starred restaurants to perform when nothing else does. If your work matters, make it last.
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Episode recap:
In this Love in Action podcast episode, guest Ed Frauenheim discusses the concept of "confined masculinity"—the traditional view that men must be stoic, dominant, and self-reliant—which often leads to emotional suppression, poor relationships, and health issues. Ed shares his personal experiences, including a mild heart attack and a cancer diagnosis, as moments that forced him to reevaluate his own masculinity. He and co-author Ed Adams propose "liberating masculinity" as an alternative—one that embraces compassion, emotional expression, connection, and vulnerability. Their book, Reinventing Masculinity, outlines how this new model can lead to better well-being, stronger relationships, and more effective leadership. The conversation emphasizes that healthy masculinity is about balance—integrating both traditionally “masculine” and “feminine” traits. It’s not about rejecting strength, but expanding what strength means.
Guest Bio:
Ed Frauenheim is a soulful storyteller, a writer, speaker, and consultant who has focused on workplace, technology, and culture matters for more than 25 years. His stories have been featured in USA Today, Harvard Business Review, and Fortune. Ed spent six years as director of content at Great Place to Work, the global consultancy that produces the annual Fortune 100 Best Companies to Work For list. His co-written book, Reinventing Masculinity, outlines the way to better well-being, stronger relationships, and more effective leadership.
Quotes
“Winning isn’t everything.”
“We’re told to be tough all the time. The truth is, we need to be tough and tender.”
“Clear courage today is emotional: naming pain, asking for help, and saying ‘I love you, man.’”
“Curiosity turns know-it-alls into learn-it-alls.”
“Liberating masculinity lets a man truly love—in every sense of the word.”
Takeaways
Name the trap. Confined masculinity prizes stoicism, domination, and lone-wolf myths; it shortens lives and weakens teams.
Practice the Five C’s.
Curiosity: Ask more, assume less.
Compassion: Start with self-kindness; pain is human, not a personal failure.
Connection: Men need men—find healthy brotherhood (walk-and-talks, groups, circles).
Courage: Include emotional and moral courage (own privilege, apologize, seek help).
Commitment: Build weekly habits (journaling, check-ins) so change sticks.
+ Contemplation (BONUS): Prayer/meditation to return to your best self.
Lead with both/and. Tough-minded on standards; tender-hearted with people.
Model vulnerability. Leaders who share struggles (mental health, setbacks) unlock trust and performance.
Redesign rewards. Promote for humility, empathy, and learning—not just charisma and conquest.
Timestamps
[00:00] Marcel’s intro + why masculinity matters now
[04:00] Ed’s story: success on paper, struggle inside
[07:00] Health wake-ups: heart attack, cancer—and choosing help
[09:30] Defining confined masculinity (stoic, self-made, self-sacrificing)
[13:30] How we got here: history, culture, and alternatives
[18:00] The antidote: liberating masculinity & the Five C’s
[22:00] Self-compassion vs. self-pity; Kristen Neff’s insights
[27:00] Connection without shame: men’s groups that work
[31:00] “Tough & tender” leadership in action (ski industry example)
[36:00] Curiosity: from know-it-all to learn-it-all
[38:30] Role models at the top: soulful leadership that performs
[41:00] Homework: journal, join a men’s group, contemplation
[44:00] Women & promotion: why the wrong traits get rewarded—and how to fix it
[48:00] Faith in men: most guys are more supportive than we think
[50:30] Leading with love: start by listening
[51:30] Final takeaway: fuller lives are possible—for all of us
Conclusion:
Ed Frauenheim’s story reminds us that true strength isn’t found in silence or self-reliance but in the courage to connect, feel, and grow. By embracing “liberating masculinity,” men can lead with both toughness and tenderness—creating healthier families, stronger teams, and more compassionate workplaces. Leadership rooted in love and curiosity fosters trust, innovation, and long-term success. As Ed’s journey shows, self-compassion and connection are not signs of weakness but pathways to wholeness. The future belongs to men who have the courage to lead with heart.
Links / Resources
Book: Reinventing Masculinity: The Liberating Power of Compassion and Connection (Ed Frauenheim & Ed Adams): https://a.co/d/clezbvM
Connect with Ed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-frauenheim-685294/
Website – https://www.edfrauenheim.com/
Substack (Ed’s Cancer Journey) - https://frauentimes.substack.com/
Today’s episode is made possible by TerraSlate. TerraSlate Waterproof Paper is waterproof, rip-proof, and recyclable — no more laminating sheets, and no more wasted paper. TerraSlate prints through any standard laser printer and can be written on with a regular ballpoint pen. Powered by 100% renewable energy and recently named a Denver Broncos Small Business Partner, TerraSlate combines durability with sustainability. From ocean dives to mountain summits, it’s trusted by the NFL, the U.S. military, and Michelin-starred restaurants to perform when nothing else does. If your work matters, make it last.
Visit TerraSlate.com and make your ideas indestructible.
Marcel sits down with Kyle Ewing, CEO and founder of TerraSlate, a two-time Inc. 5000 honoree known for creating waterproof paper used by top restaurants and NFL teams. Kyle shares his journey from Olympic-level skiing to entrepreneurship and building multiple companies. He shares how his Inverted Pyramid Leadership model—where leaders serve their teams—drives TerraSlate’s success. He breaks down core values of grit, growth, focus, and candor, his “buy back your time” principle for scaling, and his Business Navigator Operating System for helping founders start and scale their businesses. Kyle also explores using AI as a “co-CEO”, documenting systems, and leading with clarity, kindness, and accountability.
Kyle Ewing is the CEO and Founder of TerraSlate. Under his leadership, TerraSlate has been featured in Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, the Denver Post, and NPR, and twice named to the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing private companies. Beyond TerraSlate, Kyle also founded Big Island Honey, Windward Equity, and Cube Dynamics, and invests in Sustainability Partners to advance eco-conscious innovation. He blends business acumen with heart-centered leadership, reminding us that leading with love unlocks true potential. Kyle has been recognized with Business Elite’s “40 Under 40” and as a two-time Titan 100 award winner in Colorado.
Quotes
“Leading with love is doing the hard thing, not the easy thing.”
“Don’t delegate the task, delegate the outcome—and always state the why.”
“Clear is kind. The worst thing you can do to someone is delay feedback.”
“Culture isn’t soft. It’s the system that scales your company.”
“If someone else can do it for less than your hourly rate, delegate it right now.”
“AI doesn’t replace you. It replicates your thinking so your people can lead without fear.”
Takeaways
Flip the leadership pyramid: serve your team so they can serve your customers.
Document everything. Systems free people to lead with humanity.
Delegate outcomes, not tasks, and always explain the purpose.
Build a “Co-CEO” AI system to preserve your company’s institutional knowledge.
Timestamps:
[00:00] Welcome and intro to Kyle Ewing
[03:00] From Olympic trials to business rebirth
[06:00] The origin of TerraSlate and waterproof paper
[10:00] Redefining leadership through service and empathy
[14:50] The four values driving TerraSlate’s success
[21:30] The art of delegation and owning the outcome
[26:30] Time hacking and the buyback rate
[29:30] Building a “Co-CEO” using AI
[33:00] Speed round: lessons, decompression, and legacy
[35:00] How to lead with love and practical kindness
[37:50] Why true networking happens in service, not events
[39:10] Closing: scaling business with heart
Links/Resources:
Website: kyleewing.com
TerraSlate: terraslate.com
Instagram: @kyleewingofficial
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kyleewing
Episode recap:
In this episode, Marcel sits down with Wes Adams and Tamara Myles, co-authors of A Meaningful Work, to explore what truly makes work meaningful in the age of AI. Drawing from positive psychology and organizational research, they unpack how leaders can move beyond removing obstacles and instead foster environments of high well-being, challenge, contribution, and connection. They highlight the role of positive, timely feedback in reinforcing meaningful contributions and show how challenge, paired with strong support, creates a “zone of possibility” where people thrive. Together, they make the case that meaningful work is a business imperative. Listeners will walk away with actionable ways to spark purpose and connection in their own workplaces.
Guest Bio:
Wes Adams, CEO of SV Consulting Group, partners with Fortune 500s and growing companies to develop leaders and create effective structures for high-performing teams. He researches positive psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, focusing on leadership practices that help employees thrive.
Tamara Myles is a speaker, author, professor, and entrepreneur focused on human flourishing at work. She helps leaders and organizations like Microsoft, KPMG, and MassMutual unlock meaningful work to boost performance, innovation, and resilience. As faculty at Boston College and at the University of Pennsylvania, her work shows that meaningful work leads to thriving teams and lasting impact.
Quotes
“Leaders are responsible for almost half of each individual’s experience of meaning at work.”
“Community says, I matter here.”
Takeaways
Leaders must intentionally foster community, contribution, and challenge to create meaningful work.
Simple practices—like synchronized breaks, positive feedback, and development conversations—can transform team culture.
Timestamps
[00:00] Marcel’s introduction: why meaningful work matters in today’s world
[04:19] Tamara’s personal story: what makes work meaningful (or not)
[06:26] Wes’s journey: purpose-driven work isn’t always meaningful
[09:33] Defining meaningful work and debunking misconceptions
[12:41] Has the meaning of work changed post-pandemic?
[23:43] Research on social connection and productivity
[28:22] The “friendship effect” and overcoming challenges together
[28:31] Contribution—understanding impact and purpose at work
[52:21] The power of saying “thank you” and recognizing others
Conclusion
Wes Adams and Tamara Myles make it clear: meaningful work is not about what you do, but how you experience it—and leaders play a pivotal role in shaping that experience. By focusing on community, contribution, and challenge, and by practicing care, feedback, and support, leaders can ignite passion and performance in every employee. The call to action is simple: start today, with small steps, to make work more meaningful for your team and yourself. The ripple effects can transform not just organizations, but lives.
Links Mentioned
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Meaningful-Work-Passion-Performance-Employee/dp/1541704533
Website: https://www.makeworkmeaningful.com/
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Episode recap:
Marcel sits down with Kimberly Davis, actor-turned-leadership coach and author of Brave Leadership. They explore her journey from the stage to coaching leaders worldwide, redefining what bravery means at work, and why authenticity and vulnerability matter more than ever. Kimberly shares strategies for courageous conversations, lessons from her TED talk, and her vision of helping 1 million people uncover their “super objective.” Along the way, you’ll learn how to focus on impact and bring more courage into your leadership.
Guest Bio:
Kimberly Davis is the founder and author of Brave Leadership, where she champions emerging leaders and senior managers navigating today’s workplace. She shares her inspirational message of personal power, responsibility, and impact with organizations across the country and teaches leadership programs worldwide. Kimberly is Adjunct Faculty for Southern Methodist University’s Cox School of Business’ Executive Education Program. She’s also a TEDx speaker, and her book, Brave Leadership, named among Inc. Magazine's most impactful books, became an Amazon bestseller in Business Leadership and Motivation, and received the Benjamin Franklin Silver Award for Business and Career.
Quotes:
"Bravery is not the absence of fear—it’s the choice to move forward in spite of it."
"Authenticity isn’t about oversharing; it’s about aligning your actions with who you truly are."
"The leaders who will thrive in this new world are those who dare to connect, even when it feels uncomfortable."
Takeaways:
Stop trying to be the “perfect” leader—focus instead on being present and authentic.
Bravery is a practice: small, consistent choices to act with clarity and courage.
Connection is leadership currency—without it, influence falls flat.
Fear is natural, but it doesn’t have to run the show.
Leading bravely isn’t about heroics; it’s about showing up as your best, real self.
Timestamps:
[00:00] Welcome and introduction
[01:07] Introducing Kimberly Davis and Brave Leadership
[03:11] Kimberly's Journey from Acting to Leadership Training
[07:19] From Onstage Leadership to Brave Leadership
[12:36] Defining Brave Leadership in Today's World
[17:36] Special Launch Announcement
[22:21] Collaborative Leadership and Global Change
[25:17] Authenticity in Leadership
[26:32] Defining Authenticity in Leadership
[27:53] The Role of Vulnerability in Leadership
[29:02] Navigating Personal Vulnerability
[30:38] Impact of Vulnerability on Leadership
[44:07] Creating a Culture of Courage
[46:23] Speed Round and Final Thoughts
Conclusion:
Leadership today isn’t about following old scripts—it’s about writing a new one rooted in bravery and authenticity. Kimberly Davis reminds us that the leaders who will thrive in uncertain times are those who show up with courage, presence, and connection. By practicing bravery in small, intentional ways, we not only inspire others but also unlock our own potential to lead with impact.
Links:
Now Be Brave - https://nowbebrave.com/
Website - https://brave-leadership.com/
Book: https://www.amazon.com/Brave-Leadership-Confident-Powerful-Authentic-ebook/dp/B077ZH91TG?ref_=ast_author_dp
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlydavisonst
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liked! Difficult Times The most learning happens during difficult times.