The Hidden Third

Go to http://factormeals.com/hiddenthird50off and use code hiddenthird50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. What happens when one of the most powerful corporations in the world –  Amazon – decides your family is a threat? Amy Nelson, attorney, mother of four, and founder of The Riveter,  found out the hard way: frozen bank accounts, FBI raids, federal subpoenas, and the full weight of the Department of Justice deployed against her family without a single charge being filed. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Amy sits down with Mariana to break down exactly how a company so powerful that it could weaponize the federal government against a single family used civil asset forfeiture and its relationship with federal law enforcement to try to force a guilty plea from an innocent man — and how her family refused to break. This is a David vs Goliath story that reveals who actually controls the machinery of American justice. It's about what it costs — financially, emotionally, and personally — to stand up to a trillion-dollar company. And it's about what it means to win when the system is stacked against you. If you've ever wondered whether ordinary people can fight back against extraordinary power, Amy Nelson is your answer. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to secure your online data and get up to four extra months. At 14, Christian Picciolini was a lonely kid from an Italian immigrant family in Chicago when he was recruited into the Chicago Area Skinheads — one of America's first neo-Nazi skinhead groups. By 16, he was leading it. He fronted white power punk bands, helped merge his group with the violent Hammerskin Nation, opened a record store selling hate music, and toured Europe playing to thousands. For years, he recruited young men into a movement built on violence and fear. Then something broke. In 1996, he walked away. Today, Christian is one of the most important voices in the fight against extremism. He's the author of “White American Youth” and “Breaking Hate”, and has spent decades helping people leave hate groups — doing the painstaking, one-on-one work of deradicalization. In this episode of THE HIDDEN THIRD, Christian joins me to unpack how radicalization actually works: the loneliness, the emotional hooks, the sense of belonging, the slow normalization of hate — and the personal unraveling that comes when your entire identity is built around an ideology designed to destroy. We talk about what pulled him in, what finally pushed him out, what extremism looks like today — and why, in the right conditions, almost anyone can be recruited into something they never imagined. Subscribe for more conversations from the underworld. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzellerInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On The Hidden Third, we explore the underground worlds and shadowy figures that drive much of the global economy—so today I’m excited to share an excerpt from a new audiobook about one of our culture’s most taboo, most-watched, and least-understood industries: porn. It’s the most watched business in the world. And the least understood. Streamed by millions every day, porn is everywhere. It shapes our culture, our relationships, and even technology. Yet, nobody seems to know who really controls the business. The power brokers tend to lurk in the shadows, while their performers remain quite literally exposed. In the new audiobook The Kink Machine: The Hidden Business of Adult Entertainment, from Pushkin Industries and the Financial Times, Financial Times journalists Patricia Nilsson and Alex Barker start digging into the porn industry and following where the money flows. Their reporting uncovers a shadowy power structure that includes billionaires, tech geniuses, and the most powerful finance companies in the world. A gripping exposé of how power operates behind the most taboo corner of the internet, Nilsson and Barker unravel a story about control, influence, and an industry with staggering cultural reach that no one really wants to talk about—until now. Here’s a preview of The Kink Machine. If you like what you hear, get The Kink Machine on Audible, Spotify, Pushkin.fm, or wherever you get audiobooks.  https://bio.to/KMHidden Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://selectquote.com/mariana to save more than 50% on term life insurance. Kari Ferrell became known as “The Hipster Grifter” after her cons went viral. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Kari joins me to talk about how her scams worked — from bad checks to stealing from friends and lying about being a cancer survivor — and how things escalated after she moved from Salt Lake City to New York City, where she landed a job at VICE. We dig into what was driving her at the time, how easy it can be to manipulate trust, and what it’s like to become a public villain on the early internet. Kari walks us through the consequences, the fallout, and what accountability and rebuilding look like when your name becomes synonymous with a grift. Subscribe for more conversations from the underworld. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Balliet spent 25 years with the Department of Homeland Security - first with the CBP and then with ICE - arresting dozens of human traffickers, smugglers, and child predators. He led the wiretap strategy that resulted in the arrest of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzmán—not once, but twice—and was named Federal Law Enforcement Association's Agent of the Year. In this episode, we dive deep into: - His time as a border patrol agent  - His investigation into violent militia groups operating on the U.S.- Mexico border - The wiretap operations targeting the Sinaloa Cartel that led to El Chapo's arrest – twice - What it's really like hunting the world's most dangerous criminals - His warnings about Trump's immigration raids and excessive use of force by ICE - Why a massive ICE hiring surge has put untrained and unqualified agents on America's streets - How resources are being diverted from real homeland security threats  - Why he decided to speak out and how that has impacted his life This is a rare inside look at federal law enforcement from someone who isn't afraid to tell the truth about what's gone wrong. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://selectquote.com/mariana to save more than 50% on term life insurance. Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. In this episode, I sit down with MS NOW correspondent and bestselling author Jacob Soboroff for a candid conversation about what it takes to report on the stories that shape our country, and the personal cost that comes with it. Jacob shares why he became a journalist, the biggest lessons he's learned in the field, the toll his work has had on his family, and even some secrets he's never divulged publicly. We talk about his groundbreaking reporting on the Trump administration's family separation policy – what he saw firsthand inside migrant child detention facilities and what went into writing his book Separated. Jacob reveals what has stayed with him long after the headlines moved on, and warns that families are being separated at an even bigger scale during the current immigration raids. Then we dive into his latest bestseller Firestorm, his firsthand account of the devastating January 2025 Los Angeles wildfires. Jacob reported live as his childhood home in the Pacific Palisades burned to the ground. He describes these fires as "the fire of the future" – not an isolated tragedy but a harbinger of America's new age of disaster driven by climate change, failing infrastructure, and political dysfunction. If you care about journalism, immigration, climate disasters, and the human stories behind the headlines, this conversation goes deep. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ MARIANA: ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Arman, an underground hacker involved in the infamous Xbox Underground case -- an alleged conspiracy federal investigators said targeted Microsoft and its partners and was valued by the FBI at more than $100 million. Arman says he’s been hacking since he could type. Diagnosed with ADD, he found an early obsession and talent in computer programming, spending months in grade school learning how to break into systems most people didn’t even know existed. What started as a game quickly escalated: by fifth grade, he was hacking into his school’s mainframe, and soon after he claims he’d built a sprawling network of bots, giving him the power to control and monetize massive amounts of computing resources. As a teenager, Arman describes earning tens of thousands of dollars, funding his own operation, and even consulting at 14 or 15 years old. But the underground doesn’t just come with money and status. It comes with consequences. He recounts being swatted three times as a teen by rivals and enemies targeting him, and how the paranoia and cat-and-mouse dynamics of that world can follow you long after the hacks stop. (Yes, he even admits to doing things like cutting a teacher’s internet when he didn’t want to turn in homework.) Arman also tells Mariana about cooperating with the government as an informant, and what it’s like to move from “black hat” life into ethical hacking. This interview is for reporting and education. We do not encourage or provide instructions for hacking. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ⁠YouTube⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠ MARIANA: ⁠TikTok⁠ ⁠Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on The Hidden Third, I sit down with Owen Hanson, known as “O-Dog” — a former USC athlete whose hunger to win at all costs spiraled into a criminal operation spanning sports betting, drug trafficking, and money laundering. Hanson’s story was recently featured in Mark Wahlberg’s docu-series Cocaine Quarterback. But this conversation goes deeper than the headlines. He tells me how it started with his own performance-enhancing drug use — and how, in his early twenties, it escalated into a high-stakes enterprise with international routes and ties to a major Mexican cartel. For a while, the operation felt untouchable. He lived in luxury, operated at the highest stakes, and wielded real power — until it all came crashing down. I wanted to understand how a decorated student-athlete became a drug kingpin, and what it’s like to rebuild after losing everything. In one of the most intense conversations I’ve had on the show, Hanson opens up about his upbringing, the illegal enterprise he built, his trips into Mexico’s cartel territory, life inside federal prison, and what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube Instagram Apple Podcasts Spotify MARIANA: TikTok Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. This week on The Hidden Third, I speak to Anna Sorokin, better known as “Anna Delvey”, the infamous “fake heiress” whose real-life story was later dramatized in Netflix’s “Inventing Anna”. Anna posed as a wealthy German socialite, worked her way into New York’s elite circles, and used deception and manipulation to get banks, luxury hotels, and even friends to bankroll her lifestyle – a modern case study in scams, grifting, and image. She was convicted of theft of services and grand larceny and served time in prison, becoming one of the most recognizable names in high-society con artistry. Today, her notoriety has morphed into a new kind of power: Anna has become an influencer with a massive social media following, taking on paid promotional partnerships and selling some of the illustrations she made in prison for tens of thousands of dollars. I wanted to understand who she is - behind the con artist. But Anna rarely opens up about her past and often comes across as unrepentant and dismissive about the harm she caused. That guardedness made this one of the hardest interviews I’ve ever done. There were several moments I thought she would walk out. But in the end, through a game of cat-and-mouse, she shares some of her past thinking and strategies for conning people, what life was like in prison, the friends she made there, the marriage proposals she received, and her plans for what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. The Hidden Third Show Sponsors Go to ⁠http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird⁠ to reach your financial goals faster. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram ⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠ Apple Podcasts⁠ MARIANA: ⁠⁠YouTube TikTok ⁠Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Justin Paperny is a former stockbroker turned convicted felon. In this episode, he takes Mariana from the schemes that landed him in federal prison to how he now coaches white-collar criminals on surviving incarceration and rebuilding their lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Todd Thomas’s daughter was 12 when he discovered she was being groomed by a child predator. What he did next changed the course of his life. Mariana talks to Todd about the moment he found out, the choices he made, the failures that let this happen, and how he’s turned pain into purpose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to find out how you can get up to four extra months. At 21, Lisa Phillips was assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein, an ordeal that marked the start of years of grooming and manipulation. In this conversation with Mariana, she opens up about the trauma she endured, the system that enabled it, and her ongoing fight for justice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Aliia Roza says she was trained by Russian intelligence in “sexpionage” and later defected after falling in love with one of her targets. She shares her straight-out-of-Hollywood story with Mariana. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rob Archuleta takes Mariana from his meth-fueled days in Las Vegas to the grueling yet rewarding crucible of Ironman, tracing why he quit drugs and how the scrappy running club he founded, Addict2Athlete, is transforming lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. At 23, Sequoyah Thiessen moved to L.A., believing the “Rehab Riviera” would help her kick opioids. Instead, she was pulled into the shadow economy of fraudulent rehab programs, where people in crisis are bought and sold on a multi-billion-dollar black market. She sits down with Mariana to talk about how this dangerous underworld works, who profits, and the way she turned her life around. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Days before reporting to prison, Mathew Bowyer, the bookie at the center of the Shohei Ohtani gambling scandal, sits down with Mariana to walk her through his illegal betting operation, why it collapsed, and what he believes Ohtani knew. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Go to http://topodesigns.com and use code TOPOHIDDENTHIRD for 10% off your order. When Michael Santos was sentenced to 45 years in federal prison for cocaine trafficking, he turned a cell into a classroom, earning degrees, writing books, and, inspired by Frederick Douglass, becoming a leading voice for reform. He tells Mariana how the transformation happened, and what freedom looked like after decades behind bars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

FBI veteran Kurt McKenzie joins Mariana for the inside story of Operation Oxy Alley- the takedown of what’s widely described as the largest pill-mill trafficking operation in U.S. history. Mariana recounts her own investigation and how it led to her being chased down I-95 by the brothers at the center of the case, and how it wasn’t the last McKenzie investigation she got pulled into. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pro skater and actor Fabian Alomar takes Mariana from L.A.’s skate scene to years in a high-security prison, where survival meant being ready for anything - even stashing blades where the sun doesn’t shine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. Launching October 15th! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices