Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney sits down with Travis Lenkner, Chief Operating Officer at Burford Capital, to discuss the changing economics of law firms, the growing role of external investment, and why traditional partnership structures may need to evolve to remain competitive. They explore how legal finance has expanded beyond funding individual cases, why private equity and other investors are increasingly interested in the legal sector, and how access to capital could help firms invest in talent, technology, and long-term growth.Travis reflects on his career journey from practising litigation at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher and serving as in-house counsel at Boeing to founding a litigation finance business, launching a law firm, and ultimately returning to Burford Capital. Drawing on his experience as both a lawyer and an investor, he explains why successful legal leadership requires more than technical expertise, how outside capital can help firms overcome the limitations of traditional partnership models, and what distinguishes Burford's long-term investment approach from conventional private equity. He also discusses Burford's investment in Kindleworth, the opportunities AI presents for legal finance, and why he believes external investment in major law firms is becoming increasingly likely.Expect to Learn:Why being an excellent lawyer does not necessarily prepare someone to lead a successful law firm.How litigation finance has evolved from funding individual cases to providing broader financial solutions for law firms and businesses.Why major law firms have been slower than other professional services businesses to embrace external investment.How Burford Capital's minority investment approach differs from traditional private equity ownership.Why investing in talent and technology is becoming essential for law firms seeking to remain competitive.How traditional partnership structures can discourage long-term investment and create competing priorities between senior and junior partners.How Burford's investment in Kindleworth supports the growth of boutique law firms and legal entrepreneurs.How AI and proprietary litigation data can improve investment analysis while still requiring human judgement.Why Travis believes a Silver Circle law firm is likely to accept external equity investment within the next two years.Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:[00:00] – Episode Highlights and Introduction to Travis Lenkner[05:34] – What Makes a Successful Law Firm Partner and Leader?[11:54] – How Burford Capital Has Evolved Beyond Litigation Funding[18:27] – Why External Investment in Major Law Firms Is Gaining Attention[22:56] – How Burford's Investment Strategy Differs from Private Equity[28:30] – Why Law Firms Need Capital to Invest in Talent and Technology[37:08] – Burford's Investment in Kindleworth and the Rise of Boutique Law Firms[56:16] – Closing Remarks and ThanksConnect with Travis Lenkner:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travislenkner/Company's Website: https://www.burfordcapital.com/Company's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/burford-capital/Connect with Stephen Rodney:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/Company's Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/Company's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Connect with IntoGreat Coaching:Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Listening Links:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney sits down with Will Normand, Head of Asset Management and Funds Partner at Travers Smith, to discuss what makes a successful law firm partner, how legal leadership has evolved, and the challenges facing firms in an increasingly competitive and AI-driven market. They explore the importance of adapting to change, building strong teams, developing future partners, and balancing short-term financial performance with long-term growth.Will reflects on his journey from training at Herbert Smith to becoming a partner at Travers Smith, where he has spent more than a decade developing his practice and taking on wider leadership responsibilities. Drawing on his experience of growing teams, supporting lateral hires, and navigating changes in the legal market, he explains why authenticity, perspective, trust, and clear communication are essential to effective leadership. He also shares his views on AI's potential to improve legal services, the risks it presents for junior lawyer development, and why a partner's lasting legacy should be measured by the people they help succeed rather than the deals they complete.Expect to Learn:Why successful law firm partners must continually evolve their practices to respond to changing markets and opportunities.How authenticity, perspective, and clear communication help partners become more effective leaders.Why trusting and empowering team members creates stronger practices and opportunities for long-term growth.How increasing competition and short-term profit pressures can affect law firms' ability to invest in future success.How AI could transform legal service delivery while creating challenges for training and developing junior lawyers.Why transparency, cultural fit, and realistic expectations are essential for successful lateral partner recruitment and integration.How focusing on people's development, career progression, and personal fulfilment can create a meaningful leadership legacy.Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:[00:00] – Teaser[01:04] – Introduction to Will Normand & His Legal Career[02:35] – Why Successful Partners Must Evolve with the Market[04:02] – What Makes a Successful Partner: Authenticity and Perspective[07:15] – Leadership Lessons: Building Strong Teams and Trust[11:58] – How Competition and Profit Pressures Have Changed Law Firms[17:25] – AI’s Impact on Law Firms, Efficiency, and Junior Lawyer Development[27:40] – Lateral Partner Recruitment: Cultural Fit and Integration[41:12] – Building a Lasting Legacy Through People and Their Success[46:32] – Closing Remarks and ThanksConnect with Will Normand:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-normand-b4684b56/?isSelfProfile=false Company's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/travers-smith/Company's Website: https://www.traverssmith.com/ Connect with Stephen Rodney:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/Company's Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/Company's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ Connect with IntoGreat Coaching:Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Listening Links:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney sits down with Kath Roberts, Chair of Eversheds Sutherland (International) LLP and co-chair of the firm’s Global Board, about leading a large law firm through change. They examine the client and people skills behind successful partnership, the governance role of a chair, AI’s effect on legal training, and how firms can support lateral hires.Kath traces her journey from professional negligence litigation to managing financial services work, leading the Cardiff office and becoming chair after 30 years with the firm. Her experience of changing practice direction, managing teams and working across a global firm informs her view that adaptable careers, thoughtful supervision and empowered teams are essential to sustainable legal leadership.Expect to Learn:How embracing an unexpected career change can reveal strengths that a linear career path may not.Why strong client relationships and strong people skills are equally fundamental to successful partnership.How firms can use AI while continuing to invest in supervision, feedback and the development of future experts.The role of cultural alignment, shared strategy and ongoing effort in making a global firm relationship work.How a clear business case, focused early plan and sustained support can help lateral hires succeed.Why empowerment requires both playing to your strengths and enabling others to contribute theirs.Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:[00:00] – Teaser[01:13] – Welcome & Introduction to Beyond Billables with Kath Roberts[05:30] – The Contested Chair Election: Five Candidates and Hustings[08:44] – What Makes a Successful Partner: Clients, People, and People Skills[13:40] – Constant Change: From No Computers to AI Transformation[19:36] – Why Accountants Took PE and Lawyers Haven't (Yet)[24:55] – When Plans Change: Client Contacts Move, and New Opportunities Emerge[31:54] – Best Moments: 25-Year Client Relationship and Watching People Grow[35:45] – Career Longevity: Why People Want to Stay and Why It's Overstated[39:29] – Future Factors: Geopolitics, AI, and Responding with Resilience[41:35] – Three Non-Negotiables: Over-Deliver, Empathy, and Enjoy the Journey[43:43] – Closing Remarks and Thanks Connect with Kath Roberts:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-roberts-3404253/Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/eversheds-sutherland/home/Company’s Website: https://www.eversheds-sutherland.com/en/globalConnect with Stephen Rodney:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/Company’s Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Connect with IntoGreat Coaching:Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Listening Links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney sits down with Reena SenGupta, who leads RSGI, about how AI is reshaping legal services. They examine AI’s shift from adoption to infrastructure, the changing relationship between law firms and in-house teams, pricing, knowledge management, and the capabilities lawyers need to develop.Reena draws on more than 30 years in the legal sector, beginning with Chambers & Partners before establishing her own company in 2001. As the creator of the ranking methodology used by Chambers & Partners and the FT Innovative Lawyers programme, she brings a research-led perspective on how firms, legal teams and individual lawyers are responding to technological change.Expect to Learn:How to assess AI by the commercial and legal outcomes it produces rather than the number of prompts used.Why AI efficiency may expand legal work and create new tasks rather than lead directly to lower headcount.The capabilities lawyers need to develop, including contextual advice, leadership, boldness and the ability to connect disciplines.How accessible institutional knowledge can help firms develop lawyers more quickly and deliver more contextualised advice.Why value-based billing requires law firms and in-house teams to work together to define the value of legal work.How leaders can encourage AI empowerment by reducing fear and helping lawyers see how technology can improve their professional capability.Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:[00:00] – Teaser[01:33] – Welcome & Introduction to Beyond Billables with Reena SenGupta[06:01] – Major AI Studies: Harvey, Deloitte, Pursuit, and the FT[11:33] – The Jevons Paradox: Why AI Is Expanding Legal Work[19:02] – Multidisciplinary Teams: AI as an Enabler of Institutional Knowledge[26:11] – The Indian Partner with 20 Agents: Productivity Exploding[31:33] – Mind the Gap: Clients and Law Firms Discussing Value[38:11] – The Frozen Middle: Enabled but Not Empowered[45:13] – Success Beyond Billables: The 75% Associate Walkout Example[48:56] – Norm Law and Private Equity: Conflicts and Structure[49:33] – Closing Remarks and Thanks Connect with Reena SenGupta:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reena-sengupta-0719bb4/Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rsgi-co/Company’s Website: https://www.rsgi.co/Connect with Stephen Rodney:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/Company’s Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Connect with IntoGreat Coaching:Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Listening Links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney sits down with Helen Drayton, CEO of Penningtons Manches Cooper LLP, about leading a growing law firm, developing successful partners, and integrating lateral hires. Helen explains why engagement, authenticity and accountability matter in a partnership, how firms can equip partners for business development, and how AI and private equity are reshaping the legal sector.Helen traces her route from studying law at A-level and qualifying as a corporate lawyer to becoming a partner, divisional head and CEO. Her experience of law firm mergers, cross-office collaboration and leadership succession informs her practical perspective on building a culture where partners contribute beyond financial performance and use technology without losing the human element of client service.Expect to Learn:How open conversations about a firm's culture, platform, and expectations can improve the prospects of a lateral hire succeeding.Why a partner's engagement and contribution to the wider firm matter alongside financial performance.The value of supporting partners with business development training that changes behaviours rather than personalities.How AI can improve efficiency while lawyers retain responsibility for trusted, commercially rounded advice.Why experienced judgement and the ability to identify what is missing remain essential alongside AI capability.The importance of focusing leadership energy on the factors a firm can influence, particularly its people and culture.Episode Breakdown with Timestamps:00:00 – Teaser01:17 – Helen Drayton joins Beyond Billables01:23 – Finding a route into law and securing a training contract06:30 – Qualifying into corporate law and becoming a partner08:30 – Growth through mergers and cross-office collaboration14:19 – Planning the transition to the CEO role20:45 – The behaviours of a successful law firm partner23:16 – Using AI as a tool while keeping people at the centre37:00 – Making lateral hires work through transparency and integrationConnect with Helen Drayton:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helendrayton/Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/penningtons-solicitors-llp/Company’s Website: https://www.penningtonslaw.com/Connect with Stephen Rodney:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/Company’s Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Connect with IntoGreat Coaching:Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/Listening Links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l