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What should be the trajectory of intelligence beyond humanity?
The Trajectory pull covers realpolitik on artificial general intelligence and the posthuman transition - by asking tech, policy, and AI research leaders the hard questions about what's after man, and how we should define and create a worthy successor (danfaggella.com/worthy). Hosted by Daniel Faggella.
46 Episodes
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This is an interview with Roman V. Yampolskiy, a computer scientist at the University of Louisville and a leading voice in AI safety. Everyone has heard Roman's p(doom) arguments, that isn't the focus of our interview. We instead talk about Roman's "untestability" hypothesis, and the fact that there maybe untold, human-incomprehensible powers already in current LLMs. He discusses how such powers might emerge, and when and how a "treacherous turn" might happen. This is the Third episod...
This is an interview with Joshua Clymer, AI safety researcher at Redwood Research, and former researcher at METR. Joshua has spent years focused on institutional readiness for AGI, especially the kinds of governance bottlenecks that could become breaking points. His thinking is less about far-off futures and more about near-term institutional failure modes - the brittle places that might shatter first. In this episode, Joshua and I discuss where AGI pressure might rupture our systems: intel...
This is an interview with David Duvenaud, Assistant Professor at University of Toronto, co-author of the Gradual Disempowerment paper, and former researcher at Anthropic. This is the first episode in our new “Early Experience of AGI” series - where we explore the early impacts of AGI on our work and personal lives. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Closing the Human Reward Circuit: https://danfaggella.com/reward -- Gradual Disempowerment: http://www.gradu...
This is an interview with Brad Carson, who served as a U.S. Congressman and as Under Secretary of the Army. Later, he served as the Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel & Readiness, and now serves as President of Americans for Responsible Innovation (ARI). You might expect someone with deep roots in national security to see AGI through a purely competitive lens - a technological arms race to be won at any cost. Instead, Brad’s focus is on responsibility, understanding, and res...
This is an interview with Joel Predd, a senior engineer at the RAND Corporation and co-author of RAND’s work on “five hard national security problems from AGI,”. In this conversation, Joel lays out a sober frame for leaders: treat AGI as technically credible but deeply uncertain; assume it will be transformational if it arrives; and recognize that the pace of progress is outstripping our capacity for governance. This is the fourth installment of our "US-China AGI Relations" series - where ...
USMC Colonel Drew Cukor spent 25 years as decades in uniform and helped spearhead early Department of Defense AI efforts, eventually leading project including the Pentagon’s Project Maven. After government service, he’s led AI initiatives in the private sector, first with JP Morgan and now with TWG Global. Drew argues that when it comes to the US-China AGI race, the decisive lever isn’t what we block – it’s what we adopt. The nation that most completely fuses people and machines across daily...
This is an interview with Jeremie and Edouard Harris, Canadian researchers with backgrounds in AI governance and national security consulting, and co-founders of Gladstone AI. In this episode, Jeremie and Edouard explain why trusting China on AGI is dangerous, highlight ongoing espionage in Western labs, explore verification tools like tamper-proof chips, and argue that slowing China’s AI progress may be vital for safe alignment. This the second installment of our "US-China AGI Relations" s...
This is an interview with Jack Shanahan, a three-star General and former Director of the Joint AI Center (JAIC) within the US Department of Defense. This the first installment of our "US-China AGI Relations" series - where we explore pathways to achieving international AGI cooperation while avoiding conflicts and arms races. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- The International Governance of AI – We Unite or We Fight: https://emerj.com/inter...
This is an interview with Yi Zeng, Professor at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, a member of the United Nations High-Level Advisory Body on AI, and leader of the Beijing Institute for AI Safety and Governance (among many other accolades). Over a year ago when I asked Jaan Tallinn "who within the UN advisory group on AI has good ideas about AGI and governance?" he mentioned Yi immediately. Jaan was right. See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/zeng1 W...
This is an interview with Max Tegmark, MIT professor, Founder of the Future of Humanity Institute, and author of Life 3.0. This interview was recorded on-site at AI Safety Connect 2025, a side event from the AI Action Summit in Paris. See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/tegmark1 Listen to the full podcast episode: https://youtu.be/yQ2fDEQ4Ol0 This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Max's A.G.I. Framework / "Keep the Future Human"...
Joining us in our eleventh episode of our series AGI Governance on The Trajectory is Irakli Beridze, Director of the UNICRI Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics under the United Nations mandate. In this conversation, Irakli draws a stark contrast between yesterday’s arms-control templates and tomorrow’s AI. Chemical weapons were narrow, outdated, and ultimately unwanted. By contrast, advanced AI is general-purpose, fast-accelerating, and universally desirable - which makes govern...
Joining us in our tenth episode of our AGI Governance series on The Trajectory is Dean Xue Lan, longtime scholar of public policy and global governance, whose recent work centers on AI safety and international coordination. In this episode, Xue stresses that AGI governance must evolve as an adaptive network. The UN can set frameworks among nations, but companies, safety institutes, and industry associations also play critical roles. Only through combining these overlapping layers can governa...
Joining us in our ninth episode of our AGI Governance series on The Trajectory is Stuart Russell, Professor of Computer Science at UC Berkeley and author of Human Compatible. In this episode, Stuart explores why current AI race dynamics resemble a prisoner’s dilemma, why governments must establish enforceable red lines, and how international coordination might begin with consensus principles before tackling more difficult challenges. This episode referred to the following other resources:...
Joining us in our eighth episode of our AGI Governance series on The Trajectory is Craig Mundie, former Chief Research and Strategy Officer at Microsoft and longtime advisor on the evolution of digital infrastructure, AI, and national security. In this episode, Craig and I explore how bottom-up governance could emerge from commercial pressures and cross-national enterprise collaboration, and how this pragmatic foundation might lead us into a future of symbiotic co-evolution rather than cata...
Joining us in our seventh episode of our series AGI Governance on The Trajectory is Toby Ord, Senior Researcher at Oxford University’s AI Governance Initiative and author of The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity. Toby is one of the world’s most influential thinkers on long-term risk - and one of the clearest voices on how advanced AI could shape, or shatter, the trajectory of human civilization. In this episode, Toby unpacks the evolving technical and economic landscap...
This is an interview with Connor Leahy, the Founder and CEO of Conjecture. This is the fifth installment of our "AGI Governance" series - where we explore the means, objectives, and implementation of of governance structures for artificial general intelligence. Watch this episode on The Trajectory Youtube Channel: https://youtu.be/1j--6JYRLVk See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/leahy1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically...
This is an interview with Andrea Miotti, the Founder and Executive Director of ControlAI. This is the fourth installment of our "AGI Governance" series - where we explore the means, objectives, and implementation of of governance structures for artificial general intelligence. Watch this episode on The Trajectory Youtube Channel: https://youtu.be/LNUl0_v7wzE See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/miotti1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are g...
This is an interview with Stephen Ibaraki, the Founder of the ITU's (part of the United Nations) AI for Good initiative, and Chairman REDDS Capital. This is the third installment of our "AGI Governance" series - where we explore the means, objectives, and implementation of of governance structures for artificial general intelligence. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- The International Governance of AI: https://emerj.com/international-governance-ai/ -- AI ...
This is an interview with Mike Brown, Partner at Shield Capital and the Former Director of the Defense Innovation Unit at the U.S. Department of Defense. This is the second installment of our "AGI Governance" series - where we explore how important AGI governance is, what it should achieve, and how it should be implemented. Watch this episode on The Trajectory YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/yUA4voA97kE This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- The Internatio...
This is an interview with Sebastien Krier, who works in Policy Development and Strategy at Google DeepMind. This is the first installment of our "AGI Governance" series - where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. Watch this episode on The Trajectory YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/SKl7kcZt57A This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- The International Governance of AI: https://emerj.com/inter...
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