Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors

In this episode Will talks with Jessie Krebs is a wilderness survival expert, former U.S. Air Force SERE specialist, and the founder of O.W.L.S. Skills (Outdoorsy Women Learning Survival Skills), a program dedicated to helping women and marginalized communities build confidence and safety in the outdoors. In this powerful episode, Jessie shares her remarkable journey—from childhood trauma and military service to discovering deep healing through wilderness therapy and survival training. With over a decade of experience in wilderness therapy and appearances on reality shows like Alone, Jessie brings a rare blend of practical skill, emotional insight, and fierce compassion to her work. Will and Jessie dive into the role of nature in trauma recovery, the impact of wilderness on mental health, and the creation of inclusive spaces in outdoor education. She shares a profound story from her time in wilderness therapy that changed her life, discusses the evolution of her teaching philosophy, and explains how survival skills are a pathway to emotional resilience. Whether you're a seasoned outdoorsperson or someone seeking a deeper connection to nature, Jessie's insights offer inspiration and guidance for finding strength in the wild. To connect with Jessie- https://bookings.owlsskills.com/en/

In this special live episode Will welcomes his longtime friend and world-renowned adventurer Mark Synnott, a veteran big wall climber, elite alpinist, National Geographic writer, and bestselling author of The Impossible Climb and The Third Pole. Mark joins remotely—from a sailboat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean—for a captivating conversation recorded live at the Whitney Community Center in Jackson, New Hampshire. The discussion centers on his newest book, Into the Ice, which chronicles his bold journey through the Northwest Passage and his deep dive into one of history's greatest polar mysteries: the lost Franklin Expedition. Along the way, Mark shares raw reflections on risk, family, storytelling, and why the hardest paths often offer the greatest rewards. This episode is a wide-ranging exploration of what it means to pursue adventure as a way of life. From living in a cave in Yosemite to crossing the Arctic by sail, Mark offers gripping stories of survival, curiosity, and devotion—to his craft, his family, and the wild places that continue to call him. Whether you're drawn to extreme expeditions, compelling historical mysteries, or simply navigating uncertainty with purpose, this conversation will leave you inspired to embrace the unknown and chart your own course. This episode was supported by: White Birch Booksellers- (a great place to buy Mark's new book!) Jackson Public Library Whitney Community Center Mark's previous episodes on Stories from the Field were: Ep. 25: Mark Synnott author of the Impossible Climb Ep. 121 Mark Synnott, Author of The Third Pole

How did an early twentieth-century psychiatric institution help shape what would later become wilderness therapy? In this episode, our host Dr. Will White continues Season 26's exploration of a history of wilderness therapy by examining a little-known moment from 1901 at the New York Hospital for the Insane on Ward's Island. During a tuberculosis outbreak, hospital administrators moved psychiatric patients into tents on the hospital grounds as a public-health measure—an intervention never intended to be therapeutic. What followed surprised staff: patients living outdoors showed notable psychological and physical improvement. Drawing on historical research and overlooked accounts of early "tent therapy," this episode explores why those gains were difficult to sustain once patients returned indoors, and how institutional priorities such as efficiency, scale, and growth often overtook treatment needs. This story raises enduring questions about the environment, systems of care, and the challenge of maintaining change—questions that continue to shape wilderness therapy, outdoor mental health treatment, and institutional models of care today. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

Where did wilderness therapy actually begin—and why is it so hard to define? In the opening episode of Season 26 of Stories from the Field, host Dr. Will White launches a season-long exploration of a history of wilderness therapy. Drawing from decades of experience, doctoral research, and nearly 300 podcast conversations, Will reflects on why the field resists a single origin story or definition. From Boy Scouts to Outward Bound to Brigham Young University and therapeutic camping to psychology, education, and cultural movements, this episode explains why wilderness therapy's roots are complex—and why that complexity matters. The episode then traces the early foundations of wilderness therapy in the United States back to the organized camping movement of the1800s, with an in-depth look at Camp Chocorua, a radical experiment in responsibility, work, and community. Long before wilderness therapy existed as a formal mental health practice, these early camps used outdoor living to shape character and resilience. This season-opening episode sets the historical groundwork for the conversations ahead and invites listeners to approach the field's past—and its future—with curiosity and care. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.

Does wilderness therapy create an altered state similar to psychedelic-assisted therapy? And what can both approaches teach us about trauma, embodiment, and lasting change?In this final episode of Season 25, Will sits down with Dr. Sandy Newes, a psychologist, educator, and longtime experiential practitioner whose career bridges wilderness therapy, trauma-informed care, and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. A 2025 recipient of the Association for Experiential Education Michael Stratton Practitioner Award, Sandy reflects on decades in the field—exploring how experience, embodiment, and nervous system regulation can create meaningful change far beyond insight alone. Together, Will and Sandy examine the surprising parallels between wilderness therapy and psychedelic-assisted therapy, including altered states, ethical use of power, choice and agency, and the importance of strong therapeutic containers. They also reflect on the evolution of wilderness therapy—what has been lost, what still matters, and why outdoor-based mental health treatment remains essential despite controversy and program closures. This conversation serves as a powerful bridge into Season 26 of Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors, which will explore the complex history, ethics, and future of outdoor behavioral healthcare. To connect with Dr. Newes and hear her podcast- check out her website- https://livingmedicineinstitute.com/about/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

What do decades of practice in wilderness therapy reveal about ethics, transport, and change? In this episode, Will talks with Paula Leslie—former Aspen Achievement Academy field guide, therapist, accreditation reviewer, and longtime educational consultant—for a rare and reflective conversation about the evolution of the field. First introduced to many readers through Gary Ferguson's book Shouting at the Sky, Paula looks back on her formative years, the core lessons that still endure, and the ethical blind spots that only became clear with time. From learning to "do hard things" to understanding autonomy, nervous systems, and family dynamics, she offers an insider's perspective on what wilderness therapy was—and what it has become. The conversation goes deep into the most complex and controversial issues facing wilderness therapy today, including transporting young people to treatment, trauma-informed decision-making, accreditation and safety standards, and the growing recognition of neurodiversity and family systems work. Paula speaks candidly about when wilderness therapy can be transformative—and when it can cause harm if misused. For parents, professionals, and former students alike, this episode doesn't offer easy answers—but it does offer hard-earned wisdom, grounded in decades of lived experience and a commitment to doing better. To connect with Paula Leslie please email her at paula@havenfamilysolutions.com This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.  

What is the most controversial program in the history of wilderness therapy? Some might say it's the very program podcast host Will White was compelled to attend as a teenager. In this deeply personal and historical episode, Will shares—for the first time in full—the origin story that shaped his life and ultimately his 35-year career in mental health treatment in outdoor settings. Sent by his parents at fourteen to a "wilderness therapy program" long before the field formally existed, Will describes how the experience built him, challenged him, and exposed him to both mentorship and harm. He also reveals how this same organization later became the center of national protest, legal battles, and cultural upheaval—rhyming in striking ways with the controversies surrounding modern wilderness therapy. This special episode serves as a teaser for Season 26, where Will explores the tangled and surprising origins of wilderness therapy, drawing from his doctoral dissertation Stories from the Elders: Chronicles and Narratives from the Early Years of Wilderness Therapy, his book Stories from the Field: A History of Wilderness Therapy, and conversations from this podcast. If you're curious about the real roots of wilderness therapy—its innovations, its failures, its controversies, and its lasting impact—this episode sets the stage for the most comprehensive historical exploration ever undertaken in the outdoor behavioral health space. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men and facilitated by Will White.

How can parents grow alongside a struggling teen or young adult without getting pulled into their anxiety, shutdown, or refusal? In this episode, Will welcomes back Krissy Pozatek to discuss the updated edition of her influential book, The Parallel Process: Growing Alongside Your Adolescent or Young Adult in Treatment. Krissy explains how the mental health landscape has shifted—more anxiety, school refusal, neurodivergence—and why parents can no longer rely on old models of detachment or over-involvement. She outlines her expanded five principles, including her new emphasis on reframing problems so parents stop trying to fix emotions and instead support teens in taking responsibility. Will and Krissy explore what it truly means to "grow in parallel" with a child in crisis, whether at home, in outpatient care, or after wilderness and residential treatment. They discuss how enmeshment and accommodation show up in everyday family life—tech battles, social media, avoidance—and how "choice-based boundaries" can create structure without power struggles. Krissy also reflects on the evolving world of wilderness and nature-based therapy, and why allowing safe struggle is key to resilience. The updated Parallel Process gives parents a roadmap to stay steadier and more grounded so their teens can use the skills they're learning in treatment. To buy Krissy's book or learn about her coaching practice- https://www.parallel-process.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.

What happens when a wilderness guide, therapist, and seasoned mentor decides that traditional treatment programs no longer fit the needs of young adults? In this episode, Will speaks with Andrew "Chappy" Chapman, an innovator who has blended decades of guiding, wilderness therapy work, and young adult mentoring into something entirely new: Belay Life's one-to-one immersive adventure model. Chappy traces his path from SUWS of Idaho to the early days of True North Wilderness Program and later to New Summit Academy in Costa Rica, each step shaping his understanding of how young adults learn, struggle, and change. When the pandemic disrupted his college mentoring work, a single student invitation to Hawai'i became the catalyst for creating a more individualized, adventure-based alternative. Chappy explains how one of his earliest clients described Belay Life as "the anti-program program," capturing its fully customized structure, privilege-from-day-one design, and emphasis on intentional daily living. Will and Chappy explore who this immersive model is best suited for, how it overlaps with but stands apart from wilderness therapy, and why families and young adults are increasingly seeking personalized, experiential approaches to growth. Belay Life website is https://belaylife.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

What do wilderness therapy outcomes really tell us? In this episode, Will talks with researchers Dr. Joanna Bettmann Schaefer and Dr. Laura Mills, two leading researchers studying outcomes in wilderness therapy and residential outdoor treatment. Drawing on data from thousands of adolescents across multiple programs, they reveal what the evidence shows about who benefits most—and who may not—from outdoor behavioral healthcare. Their conversation explores why family engagement is such a powerful predictor of success, how adopted and neurodiverse adolescents often experience different outcomes, and why a teen's sense of belonging in treatment matters. Joanna and Laura also discuss the importance of transparency, ongoing outcome measurement, and listening to those who felt harmed by treatment. For parents, professionals, and anyone seeking facts over assumptions, this episode brings clarity to what outcome research really shows about wilderness therapy today. To find the research discussed in this episode: Dr. Bettman-Schaefer research page- https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joanna-Bettmann-Schaefer To contact Dr. Bettman-Shaefer- u0046267@utah.edu Dr. Laura Mills research page- https://www.bestnotes.com/our-advisors/laura-mills-ph-d-qm-psych/ To contact Dr. Mills- laura@outcometools.com   This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

Dr. Patricia Hasbach of Northwest Ecotherapy joins Will to explore how clinicians can bring the healing power of nature into their therapeutic work. Drawing from her new book, Prescribing Nature: A Clinician's Guide to Ecotherapy, Patricia shares her journey from traditional therapy settings to incorporating the natural world as an active partner in treatment. She explains the concept of the "ecological self" and how reconnecting clients with nature can reduce anxiety, depression, and stress while deepening connection and meaning. Patricia also offers practical guidance on writing "nature prescriptions," navigating ethical considerations, and developing competence for working outdoors. Through personal stories and research insights, she shows how ecotherapy can transform both therapy and the therapist—helping practitioners step beyond the office and into the living world as part of the healing process. U.S.-based customers can get 20% off and free shipping on Patricia Hasbach's new book when ordering through Norton using this link:  https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324053668?promo=WWHITE20 Dr. Hasbach's website is- https://www.northwestecotherapy.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

Why are so many young people struggling—and are adults partly to blame? Dr. Will Dobud and Dr. Nevin Harper return to Stories from the Field to talk with Will about their bold new book, Kids These Days: Understanding and Supporting Youth Mental Health. Building on their past appearances, they explore why youth mental health keeps declining despite unprecedented access to therapy, medication, and awareness—and what adults can do to change the story. Drawing on decades of research and global experience, they challenge the assumption that kids are the problem, pointing instead to the adult-driven systems shaping their world: safety culture, over-intervention, digital overload, and the pathologizing of normal struggle. This episode invites parents, educators, and clinicians to step back, rethink their roles, and consider how adults can foster real belonging, autonomy, and resilience for the next generation. To buy Kids These Days: Understanding and Supporting Youth Mental Health, visit: https://newsociety.com/book/kids-these-days Previous appearances: Dr. Will Dobud - Episodes 109 and 132 Dr. Nevin Harper - Episode 106 This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure-inspired retreats for men.

Journalist and bestselling author Florence Williams joins Will to explore how time outdoors can transform our minds and bodies. Drawing from her acclaimed book The Nature Fix and her retreats around the world, Florence shares what first inspired her to study the science of nature's impact on mental health — and how awe, quiet, and sunlight can rewire our brains for calm and connection. They discuss the "three-day effect," the power of forest bathing, and simple daily practices anyone can use to bring more nature into life — even in cities. Whether you're a reader of The Nature Fix or simply someone who feels better outside, this conversation will leave you inspired to step outdoors and notice how nature heals. To learn more about Florence Williams, her books, and retreats check out: https://florencewilliams.com/ This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

In this week's episode, Will welcomes experiential educator Greg Hitchcock, who shares the story of The Trade—a paid apprenticeship and next-step program for young adults who feel stuck or unsure of their direction. Based on 2,000 acres in New Hampshire, The Trade helps participants learn by doing and earn while growing through hands-on training in the trades, including forestry, woodworking, construction, automotive, hospitality, and more. Apprentices live together in a supportive, therapeutic-style community, earning wages from day one while building life skills, confidence, and independence through real work in the outdoors.  Learn more about The Trade at TradeForLife.org. This podcast is supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org), offering adventure inspired retreats for men.  

In this episode Will  speaks with Somerville Johnston, co-founder of Bright Shadow, a nonprofit dedicated to helping people navigate grief and loss through nature-based retreats and community support. Somerville shares how her background in Outward Bound, somatic therapy, and adventure programs led to the creation of Bright Shadow, which began with grief retreats for whitewater kayakers and has since expanded to serve a wider community. Together, Will and Somerville explore the power of the outdoors to hold grief, foster connection, and invite healing. They discuss the unique ways Bright Shadow blends ceremony, play, and somatic practices in natural settings to create safe spaces where participants can process loss—whether from the death of loved ones, natural disasters, or changes in cherished outdoor landscapes. This conversation highlights how community, nature, and nonprofit efforts like Bright Shadow can transform the experience of grief into opportunities for renewal, resilience, and deeper connection. We are supported by White Mountain Adventure Institute- wmai.org. which is our hosts coaching and retreat practice.      

In this episode, Will welcomes back Nathan Olsen—winner of the latest season of Alone. Nathan's roots in wilderness survival run deep: his father, Larry Dean Olsen, was a pioneer in the early years of wilderness therapy, and Nathan grew up immersed in the outdoors through helping out at the Anasazi Foundation and other wilderness programs. We explore his journey in South Africa's Great Karoo Desert, how a lifetime of "dirt time" in wilderness therapy shaped his survival skills, and the reflections on family, purpose, and the changing field of wilderness therapy. Nathan also shares how research continues to prove its effectiveness and how his work co-founding BestNotes supports behavioral healthcare providers, underscoring why time in nature remains such a powerful catalyst for resilience, healing, and transformation. Nathan Olsen was previously on episode 9 of Stories from the Field, Nov. 1 2018. You can find that episode here-https://storiesfromthefield.libsyn.com/nathan-olson-ceo-of-bestnotes or any podcast platform.  Learn more at White Mountain Adventure Institute about Will White's coaching practice- wmai.org.  

In this episode, Will reconnects with his friend Chris Robbins, founder of Soul Degree men's retreats and husband of bestselling author Mel Robbins. Chris shares his journey from corporate burnout to creating outdoor retreats where men come together to heal, connect, and reset. Having attended two Soul Degree retreats himself, Will describes the impact of hiking, fire pits, and time in nature—experiences that inspired him to launch his own retreats for men at White Mountain Adventure Institute. The conversation also explores the global success of The Let Them Theory, written by Mel Robbins with their daughter Sawyer, and how its message overlaps with Chris's work. Just as the book encourages readers to release control, Soul Degree reminds men that while people may care, nature doesn't—it simply provides the space for real transformation. Learn more at White Mountain Adventure Institute- wmai.org. Check out Chris's previous conversation with Will- episode 217 of this podcast- Nature's Therapy: Unveiling Soul Degree's Power in Men's Wellness with Chris Robbins  

In this episode, Will speaks with Jason Denham, founder of Awakened Shadow Coaching, about his two decades of work with boys, men and other genders in behavioral healthcare including wilderness therapy, transitional living, and recovery support. Jason shares how outdoor experiences—from simple games in the woods to long days on trail—create unique openings for boys and men to express themselves, build resilience, and form meaningful connections. Drawing on his own recovery journey and his coaching practice rooted in Jungian shadow work and mindful somatic practices, Jason reflects on both the transformative power and the ongoing challenges of outdoor-based behavioral healthcare. Our host Will White's men's coaching and retreats website is wmai.org. Our guest Jason Denham's website is https://awakenedshadow.com/

In this compelling follow-up to Episode 98, Enzo Narciso returns to Stories from the Field to reflect on his transformation since first sharing his journey in 2020. A former wilderness therapy client who overcame addiction and a near-fatal overdose, Enzo now mentors young men transitioning home from treatment through his program, Life Strategies. He speaks candidly about the lasting impact of wilderness therapy—both its challenges and its gifts—including the controversial practice of being transported to treatment. Enzo unpacks how time in nature laid the foundation for his emotional awareness, mindfulness practice, and sense of purpose. Now pursuing a graduate degree in addiction counseling, Enzo shares insights for parents, educators, and professionals supporting boys and young men struggling with confidence, direction, and emotional growth. Whether you're an advocate or a skeptic of wilderness therapy, Enzo's grounded and thoughtful perspective offers a valuable lens into how healing can begin—often in the most unexpected places. Will White's men's coaching and retreats website is wmai.org.  

In this insightful episode Will talks with Dr. Jack Hinman, co-founder and executive director of Engage Transitions, shares his personal path from a chaotic childhood in Memphis to launching a young adult transition program in the red rock and pine-covered terrain of Cedar City, Utah. Engage Transitions supports young adults facing anxiety, depression, executive functioning struggles, and social isolation—many of whom are also neurodivergent. Jack opens up about his own healing journey through friendship, therapy, and the outdoors, and offers a powerful reminder to parents: anxiety is not something to eliminate but a necessary part of growth. He challenges the cultural instinct to remove discomfort, noting how overprotection from the physical world—and underprotection from the online one—may be delaying critical development in young adults. Jack passionately explores how time outside—on a mountain bike trail, in the snow, or simply hiking—can unlock self-confidence, connection, and emotional regulation. He believes that unstructured outdoor play builds resilience and identity, especially for young men struggling with motivation or vulnerability. Movement-based activities create opportunities for co-regulation, mirror therapy modalities like EMDR, and offer a space where conversations can flow more naturally than in a clinical office. Jack emphasizes that mastery of the outdoor environment, whether navigating rocky terrain or managing ski gear in cold weather, helps young people begin to feel mastery over themselves. In a world where many young adults are lost in digital disconnection, nature can be the place they finally begin to grow. Stories from the Field is undwritten by White Mountain Adventure Institute: https://www.wmai.org/