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Description
Unpacking lessons for the public service, starting with the Robodebt Royal Commission.
In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate.
In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate.
Ultimately the Australian Government was forced to pay $1.8bn back to more than 470,000 Australians.
In this podcast we dive deep into public policy failures like Robodebt and the British Post Office scandal - how they start, why they're hard to stop, and the public service lessons we shouldn't forget.
73 Episodes
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It’s March 1996 and the UK Government announces that mad cow disease has been linked to human cases. Within days beef consumption falls by half, public confidence is non-existent, and ministers begin meeting in chaotic quasi-cabinet groups sometimes twice a day. In this episode we discuss: How to brief best in the chaos of things changing by the hour Whether policy should change when the risk hasn't changed, but risk perception has. The policy process where decisions are not weighed...
Few people come to policy officer positions with specific policy training. They might be teachers, lawyers, front-line workers or subject-matter experts. Who teaches us how to do policy work, and what policy actually is? Enter Salli Cohen’s brilliant new book, 'Rollercoaster: How to be a bloody good policy officer.' In this episode we catch up with Salli about: Her one-word definition of policy.What it takes to be a genuinely good policy officer, beyond technical competence.The difference bet...
Part 2 of 4 on Mad Cow Disease: In this episode, the cracks in enforcement are showing, panic is slowly boiling, and the science is catching up. What we cover: The panic spike when BSE appears in domestic catsThe danger of stopping at the legislation, without interrogating whether industry is complying and how you would know.The reassurance cycle – shock, anxiety, reassurance, repeat, and whether the Government could or should have said more. The political landsc...
We kick off a new series on 'Mad Cow Disease', or Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE), and what it teaches us about governing when the science is uncertain, the consequences are enormous, but the risks are very remote. Why BSE became a lasting symbol of government failure and secrecy, even though major inquiries later found decisions were largely science led. Where to draw the line for regulatory settings with big market consequences. Who really decides when portfolios collide, ...
We want to make lasting and meaningful change, but how do we get there? In this special episode Caroline interviews Frances Foster-Thorpe and Jason Tabarias about their insights into the skills and frameworks needed to tackle large, complex and ambitious reform. We cover: Biting off what you can chew by picking two of three factors: volume, cost, qualityExamples of big Australian reforms that did and didn't hit the markLining up stakeholder expectations, the authorising environment, and...
Buy a sports car or start a podcast. It all could have gone the way of a new hobby, with audio kit languishing in a drawer. Instead, this podcast has become a study and celebration of the tricky craft of public service, and it's a source of pure joy for us. Reflecting on three years of TWT: Humble and haphazard beginningsWhat’s changed since the Robodebt Royal Commission Our favourite interviews, scandals, episodesLifting the veil on moments of chaosOur favourite moments with...
In this Christmas special, Caroline, Alison and Danielle unwrap the public service’s most gear-grinding buzzwords, what they’re supposed to mean and what they have now quietly become. With words crowdsourced from the fine listeners of TWT, we talk: Big serious words and how their technical meanings have driftedThe corporate visitors who arrived and never leftWords that hide fear or indecision How co-design can be a handbrake, and why government struggles to set boundaries on what is genu...
Your shiny new promotion turns out to be more than you bargained for. In this scenario-based "Imagine if..." episode, Caroline and Danielle assume the role of a newly promoted manager who steps into a team they didn’t choose and some character-building challenges. ⚠️ Mild trigger warning for the depiction of toxic colleagues - we've all had one! We cover: Walking the floor and gathering intelHow to give the boss response to a credibility challengeClarifying the authorising e...
When politics meets process, what’s a conscientious public servant to do? This “Imagine if…” episode puts Alison and Danielle in the shoes of a project manager caught between legality, leadership and media heat — and explores what good judgment looks like when everyone’s waiting to be told what’s important. The first in an “Imagine if…” series as requested by listeners — exploring the messy, real-world dilemmas of public administration. We cover: · Managing up and whether ...
Demos has released a fascinating paper, The Human Handbrake, on the five human habits that stall public sector reform. In this episode we pick through each of them - fear, heroics, tribes, tidiness, and tempo - and test practical fixes from risk stratification to outcome-focused equity. Topics covered include: fear-driven risk culture and how to stratify risksafe-to-fail spaces vs non-negotiable protectionspolicy hero incentives vs long-term stewardshiprecruitment, merit, and better reference...
In our second change management episode, Danielle pulls apart the myth of the “minor” restructure and lay out a practical way to change without breaking the work. From function mapping and ministerial comms to union engagement and the “fourth trimester”, we consider how to make change stick with clarity and care. why six to nine months is realistic for restructuresfunction before form and mapping real workaligning vision to delivery using bottom‑up designministers and boards as informed stake...
Danielle takes us on a romp through change management, starting, as with all good contrarians, with a challenge to the idea of ‘change management’ itself. Some of the ideas covered: Change is happening all the time in government, not just during formal "change management" periodsMost people dislike uncertainty rather than change itselfMission and values-driven staff struggle most with macro changes that shift agency directionMedium-level changes (like new systems) are often underestimat...
Our first live show at the wildly successful ANZSOG NRCOP Conference in Brisbane August 2025. The conversation tackles head-on the structural disconnections between our regulatory and policy systems, particularly in federated models like early childhood education. How do we reconcile a Commonwealth pouring billions into subsidies while state-based quality regulators remain chronically underfunded? What happens when funding accessibility doesn't come with proportionate strengthening of quality...
What makes someone qualified to be a minister? In this candid conversation with Tom Koutsantonis, South Australia's longest-serving current parliamentarian, Danielle explores the fascinating intersection where political leadership meets public administration. Drawing on his remarkable career spanning multiple portfolios including Treasury, Energy, and Transport, Koutsantonis takes us behind the curtain of ministerial decision-making. He dispels the myth that ministers need specialised experti...
In this episode, Danielle, Caroline and Alison look at ANOTHER big ICT transformation project, with enormous human impacts and a long and expensive clean up. The Queensland Health payroll system failure ranks as one of Australia's worst public administration disasters, costing taxpayers $1.2 billion and leaving 78,000 healthcare workers without proper pay. What began as a $98 million routine upgrade became a case study in governance failure, mismanaged procurement, and the dangers...
In this episode, we dive into Danielle’s favourite topic - work place flexibility. Public servants working from home has become a visible fault line in Australian politics and media, revealing deeper questions about productivity, surveillance, and trust in our workplaces. The convenience culture debate exposes how work design impacts everything from gender equity to regional development. Danielle, Alison and Caroline unpack the following: That COVID forced rapid technology deployment and show...
What if the real problem in public service reform isn't what we're trying to do, but how we're trying to do it? Caroline, Danielle, and Alison dive deep into a revolutionary approach to government change by examining The Radical How – a framework published by UK innovation foundation Nesta. The conversation unpacks three core principles that could transform public service: start small and test assumptions early rather than pretending to know all answers upfront;build genuinely multidisciplina...
Tom Loosemore of Public Digital was instrumental in the capital R Reset of Universal Credit. In this interview, he tells Caroline there were no beanbags, but a lot of multi-D. This interview adds nuance and richness to the picture sketched in our previous Universal Credit episodes. Some of the key insights include: Fundamental problem of the original approach was thinking of Universal Credit as a technology challenge rather than a complex policy, operational, and design challengeThe first pha...
In this second episode on Universal Credit, we talk about how the team transitioned from catastrophic failure to remarkable success. We cover: The barriers to test and learn - from the need for certainty by leaders, to Treasury requirements for business cases, to the need to support MinistersThe lessons learnt by the 10 year in role SRO Neil Couling [sorry CCB called you Neil Coulson!!] - including ‘avoid the tyranny of the timetable’Whether test and learn will be something younger generation...
In the shadow of worries about the NDIS, do we even believe that big system reform in Australia is do-able any more? Is the juice worth the squeeze? In this first of a two part series, we explore the example of Universal Credit, a 15 year long reform agenda in the UK to combine 6 benefits into one, and, more importantly, seeking to transform the relationship of the citizen to work and welfare. In this episode we unpick how it goes from an idea that is incorporated into the UK Coalition ...
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