The ThoughtStretchers Podcast

Drew Perkins hosts a live conversation at the Festival of Education with Lianne Cottrell of the Jack Miller Center, Ronnie London of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) and Rachel Humphries of the Bill of Rights Institute on restoring Enlightenment civics. The panel asks how much the American founding rests on Enlightenment liberalism, why free speech is the engine of pluralism and social change, how students' and teachers' First Amendment rights differ between K-12 and higher education, and what society might look like if civic education were treated as the formation of humble, reasoning citizens. Links & Resources If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at [email protected]. Intro/outro voice credit: David O'Hara, Professor of Philosophy, Classics & Environmental Studies, Augustana University. Key takeaways The founding rests on Enlightenment ideals, but which Enlightenment? Lianne notes that the Scottish and French Enlightenments color how we read life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Rachel argues most classrooms give the philosophy only a surface-level "this is what Locke said" gloss. Persuasion or force: Ronnie argues there are only two ways to get people to do what you want, convince them or coerce them. Free speech keeps us on the side of persuasion, lets us see the world as it is, and has powered every major social movement. Censorship is a position of weakness: Silencing someone signals you can't answer them. Students should learn early to hear others out and test their own thinking against them, as in Mill's On Liberty. K-12 and higher ed are different legal worlds: College students and faculty have broad First Amendment protection. K-12 students keep their rights at the schoolhouse gate within the limits of Tinker, while K-12 teachers' classroom speech is largely governed by curriculum and school authorities. Civic education is formation: The panel calls for teaching reasoning over feeling, building trust before hard conversations, supporting teachers to lead Socratic discussion, and aiming for citizens who are humble, connected and quick to find their own errors. Episode highlights and timecodes 00:00 – Welcome & Introductions: Lianne, Ronnie and Rachel introduce themselves and their organizations. 01:54 – Enlightenment Liberalism and the Founding: Drew asks how far our founding ideals rest on Enlightenment liberalism, and the panel weighs Scottish vs. French Enlightenments and the "history and tradition" lens. 06:50 – Traditional vs. Inquiry: Each panelist reflects on their own K-12 experience of civics and history. 12:51 – From Sputnik to A Nation at Risk: How accountability, fear and the STEM push changed the purpose of education. 19:34 – Why Free Speech Matters: Persuasion vs. force, "rhetoric is lawful magic," and why censorship is a position of weakness. 27:37 – K-12 vs. Higher Ed: Supporting teachers, the 1619 Project question, and how First Amendment rights differ for students and teachers. 33:35 – Imagining the Ideal: Humility, thick bonds and a literal American exceptionalism. 38:20 – Book Recommendations: From On Liberty to the Nicomachean Ethics. 42:34 – Closing: Jonathan Rauch's fallibilist and empirical rules.

Drew Perkins hosts a live panel at the Festival of Education with Elise Stephenson, Patrice Bain and Valentina Devid on the so-called pedagogy wars between explicit instruction and inquiry. Recorded in front of an audience, the conversation asks what role knowledge plays in critical thinking, where each panelist sits on the instructional continuum, and how formative assessment and making thinking visible help teachers meet students where they are. The panel's answer to "either-or?" is a firm "yes-and." Links & Resources If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at [email protected]. Intro/outro voice credit: David O'Hara, Professor of Philosophy, Classics & Environmental Studies, Augustana University. Key takeaways It's yes-and, not either-or: All three panelists place themselves on a continuum between direct instruction and inquiry. They move along it depending on what students already know and what the learning goal demands. Knowledge is a starting point, not the finish line: Knowledge makes critical thinking possible and better, but the aim is to "play the game," not just learn the vocabulary of it. Students also arrive with more knowledge and thinking than test scores suggest. Thinking can be grown: Research from Project Zero shows students in classrooms that name and value thinking moves get better at using thinking strategies at every age. Modeling, think-alouds and self-regulation are key. Formative action and visible thinking are two names for the same idea: Constantly and purposefully checking what students understand challenges teachers' assumptions. It replaces rigid "novice or expert" labels with a picture of each learner. Watch for lethal mutations on every side: Retrieval practice done as a box to tick, and thinking routines done as one-off activities, both miss the point. Teachers need tools, skills and mindsets, plus a healthy skepticism of anyone selling "the one right way." Episode highlights and timecodes 00:00 – Welcome & Introductions: Drew introduces the panel and frames the pedagogy wars as a "yes-and" rather than an "either-or." 05:25 – Knowledge & Critical Thinking: Can students think critically with little domain knowledge? Valentina, Elise and Patrice push back on Drew's pushback. 10:08 – Can Thinking Be Trained?: Elise shares Ron Ritchhart's research on students' concept maps of thinking, and Patrice describes teaching students how to learn. 15:33 – The Pedagogy Spectrum: From drill-and-kill to free school, each panelist places their own practice on the continuum. 21:20 – Formative Action & Visible Thinking: The expertise reversal effect, checking for agreement vs. checking for understanding, and why teachers need tools, skills and mindsets. 28:54 – Lethal Mutations: How the science of learning, and inquiry approaches, can be reduced to box-ticking. 34:12 – Beyond the Tribalism: Curiosity, humility and healthy skepticism as the way forward. Frequently asked questions What are the "pedagogy wars"? The polarized debate between explicit or direct instruction and inquiry-based approaches. The panel rejects the either-or framing and argues that good teaching moves along a continuum between them. Can students think critically without knowledge? The panel agrees that knowledge strongly supports critical thinking. Valentina argues it's a prerequisite. Elise cautions that students always bring knowledge and ways of thinking, even when test scores don't show it. Drew argues some critical thinking is possible with little domain knowledge. Can critical thinking be taught? Project Zero research described by Elise suggests thinking strategies can be learned and improved. Students in classrooms that name and value thinking moves grow in their ability to name and apply them. Valentina adds that teaching self-regulation, through modeling and think-alouds, has a large impact. Where do the panelists sit on the instruction-to-inquiry spectrum? All three say they are "on the continuum." Patrice uses heavy direct instruction to build a foundation and scaffolds toward deep learning. Valentina adapts to where students are, aiming for independence. Elise braids required skills with students' own generative questions. What is the expertise reversal effect? A finding from cognitive load theory: techniques that help novices can hinder experts, and vice versa. The panel cautions against labeling whole students as novices or experts. Students can be ahead and behind at the same time, which is why ongoing formative assessment matters. What's the difference between checking for agreement and checking for understanding? Tools like cold calling and mini whiteboards can confirm a correct answer, which Drew calls agreement. Understanding requires seeing how students make sense of ideas. Valentina's formative action model adds dialogue and sense-making after the check. What is a "lethal mutation"? A practice that loses its purpose as it spreads. Examples include retrieval practice done just to tick a box, or a See-Think-Wonder routine used as a one-off activity. Teachers who understand the "why" behind a practice can adapt it well. How do we move beyond the tribalism? Ask "How do my students learn?" (Patrice). Model curiosity, open-mindedness and willingness to be wrong (Valentina). Bring healthy skepticism to anyone claiming one best way (Elise). Drew calls this an inquiry mindset.

Drew Perkins talks with Sean Morrisey to discuss the pedagogical philosophy and curriculum design behind the Word Mapping Project. Discover how this innovative approach interweaves spelling, vocabulary, morphology, and fluency into a single manageable daily lesson for upper elementary and middle school students. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at [email protected]. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. *intro/outro voice credit: David O'Hara, Professor of Philosophy, Classics & Environmental Studies; Director of Environmental Studies & Sustainability at Augustana University  Key Takeaways: Comprehensive Literacy Integration: The Word Mapping Project interweaves spelling, vocabulary, morphology, and fluency into a single, manageable daily lesson tailored for upper elementary and middle school students. Efficient Vocabulary Acquisition: Rather than relying on bloated commercial reading programs or basic vocabulary lists, students learn 750 sophisticated words per year through explicit instruction and anchored word pairs. Cognitive Load Reduction: Morphology instruction utilizes word sums and matrices, embedding spelling within morphology and spelling ladders to significantly reduce cognitive load, especially benefiting dyslexic students. Balanced Curriculum Structure: The approach pairs structured word study and brief daily inquiry periods with rich novel studies (such as Number the Stars alongside related historical non-fiction). Responsive Support: Creator Sean Morrisey emphasizes strong educator support, offering teacher email response times within 24 hours while noting that communication occasionally filters into spam folders. Episode Highlights & Timecodes: 00:00 - Introduction & Pedagogical Philosophy: Sean Morrisey shares his 30 years of education experience as a school psychologist and classroom teacher, introducing the foundational philosophy behind the Word Mapping Project. 12:15 - Curriculum Design & Vocabulary Acquisition: A breakdown of how upper elementary and middle school students tackle 750 words a year by targeting sound, spelling, and meaning simultaneously via the lexical quality hypothesis. 28:40 - Supporting Dyslexic Students through Morphology: How word sums, matrices, and spelling ladders lower cognitive barriers and leverage language strengths for struggling readers. 42:10 - Novel Studies vs. Commercial Programs: Exploring why prioritizing structured word study and authentic texts like Number the Stars creates a more powerful literacy framework than traditional reading programs. 52:00 - Implementation & Next Steps: Practical advice for interventionists, self-contained elementary classrooms, oral language development, and connecting with the curriculum.

Drew Perkins sits down with Heather Peske, President of the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ) to examine critical strategies for teacher compensation, fiscal constraints, and strategic school funding. As school districts nationwide confront a looming fiscal crisis driven by declining student enrollment, rising operational costs, and the September 2025 expiration of federal ESSER funds, baseline teacher compensation has emerged as a crucial retention lever, accounting for approximately 80% of district budgets. Heather Peske shares research-backed policy solutions, highlighting how targeted salary supplements, performance-based pay models, and credential reforms can help districts recruit and retain effective educators in hard-to-staff subjects and high-need schools. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at [email protected]. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. *intro/outro voice credit: David O'Hara, Professor of Philosophy, Classics & Environmental Studies; Director of Environmental Studies & Sustainability at Augustana University  Key Takeaways: Fiscal Pressures & Staffing Costs: Teacher compensation accounts for roughly 80% of district operating budgets, making pay structure a central lever in managing enrollment declines and post-ESSER budget deficits. Targeted Incentives Work: Only 13 states offer differentiated pay for hard-to-staff schools. Minimum supplements of $5,000 (or 7.5%) are essential for attracting top talent, as demonstrated by model policies in Alabama, Hawaii, Texas, and Utah. Rewarding Instructional Effectiveness: Valid, transparent evaluation systems linking student outcomes and classroom observations—such as Washington D.C.'s DC Impact program—successfully tie compensation to performance. Strategic Credential Reform: Reallocating automatic master's degree pay increases toward specialized interventionists and team-teaching roles maximizes budget impact without compromising instructional quality. Proactive Right-Sizing: In lieu of blunt seniority-based layoffs, district leaders must use data-driven evaluations to align workforce size with long-term revenue realities. NCTQ Policy Tools: Educational leaders can leverage NCTQ's District Policy Pathfinder database and the Compass AI Chatbot to navigate complex policy dilemmas. Episode Highlights & Timecodes: 00:00 - Introduction & Overview: Strategic Teacher Compensation with Heather Peske 08:15 - Fiscal Crisis & Operational Pressures: Managing 80% Budget Allocation 17:30 - Differentiated Pay & Incentives for Hard-to-Staff Schools and Subjects 28:45 - Performance Pay & Effectiveness: The DC Impact Evaluation Model 39:10 - Credential Reform & Eliminating Unproductive Master's Degree Premiums 48:20 - Post-ESSER Funding Expiration, Budget Shortfalls, and Strategic Workforce Right-Sizing 55:30 - NCTQ Resources: District Policy Pathfinder & Compass AI Policy Chatbot

Drew Perkins is joined by Neal McCluskey to discuss his new book, Fighting for the Freedom to Learn. We move beyond the common narrative that school choice is a modern, free-market invention of the 1950s, instead tracing the historical roots of educational pluralism back to the colonial era. Links & Resources Mentioned In This Episode Have some feedback you'd like to share? You can email me at [email protected]. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it and please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. *intro/outro voice credit: David O'Hara, Professor of Philosophy, Classics & Environmental Studies; Director of Environmental Studies & Sustainability at Augustana University  Key Takeaways: School Choice Has Deep Roots: The desire for educational pluralism predates 20th-century market-based theories; it is a fundamental human response to the imposition of centralized values that dates back to the colonial period. The "Common School" Conflict: The centralized, government-controlled education system introduced by reformers like Horace Mann historically marginalized minority and religious groups, leading to immediate pushback that still echoes in today's disputes over curriculum and religious content. Pluralism as a Solution: Educational choice is not just an economic policy; it is a social one. It allows diverse communities to embrace their own values—whether religious, philosophical, or pedagogical—without needing to impose those values on everyone else. Accountability vs. Content: A robust pluralistic system can prioritize parental choice while still maintaining accountability, ensuring students learn essential skills (reading, writing, math) without forcing a uniform, state-mandated worldview. Why Culture Wars Persist: Universal school choice programs are currently expanding across the U.S. not just as a reaction to COVID-19, but as a legislative strategy to resolve long-standing disputes over which values and histories are taught in public classrooms. Episode Highlights & Timecodes: [00:08:49] – Intro: Neal McCluskey on Fighting for the Freedom to Learn. [00:13:20] – Challenging the "1950s" narrative: The true historical roots of school choice. [00:18:15] – The Horace Mann legacy: How common schooling fueled early cultural conflict. [00:23:50] – Civil rights and minority perspectives on controlling education. [00:34:56] – What does a "baseline" education look like? Balancing civic skills with parental rights. [00:41:35] – Why public schools struggle to teach controversial content (e.g., evolution vs. creationism). [00:46:11] – Redefining the "Public Good": Is pluralism the ultimate goal of educational policy? [00:56:02] – The modern surge: Why states are embracing universal school choice today.