The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast

 I had the opportunity to interview Ann Russo, LCSW — a licensed clinical social worker and theologian — to discuss her ground-breaking work in treating religious trauma. Russo has developed the Religious Trauma Treatment Model (RTTM), the first clinical framework designed to help therapists identify and treat religious harm and trauma in their clients.   With her book Treating Religious Trauma: An Integrative Framework for Clinicians forthcoming in 2027, Ann shares how her unique perspective — growing up outside the church and later immersing herself in evangelical Christianity out of curiosity — shaped her understanding of how rigid, high-control religious systems impact people across all faiths and backgrounds.  The conversation covers the nature of religious trauma as sustained, repeated harm rather than a single traumatic event, drawing on my own experiences with rapture anxiety and childhood indoctrination. Ann outlines her RECAPS model (Regulate, Educate, Clarify, Align, Practice, Sustain), emphasizing nervous system regulation as foundational work, and explains how her approach meets clients wherever they are — whether they choose to stay in their faith, shift it, or walk away entirely.    We also explore the overlap between high-control religion and cult psychology, the importance of psychoeducation in recovery, and how triggers can serve as valuable information rather than mere setbacks, offering a path toward reclaiming autonomy and finding new forms of meaning after religious harm.  Find Ann at her website here: Home - Ann Russo Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

In this week's episode, I speak with Dr. Tina Schermer-Sellers about the damage caused by evangelical purity culture and religious sexual shame. Dr. Tina traces how her own body-positive upbringing contrasted with what she saw in her therapy students' stories — a dramatic shift around 2000 toward deep self-hatred and shame, driven by abstinence-only education and authoritarian religious parenting. She explains how these movements taught children to fear their bodies and desires, damaging their ability to give and receive love. The conversation then covers paths to healing. Dr. Tina outlines her "MESS" model (Frame, Name, Claim, Aim) for erasing sexual shame, highlights sex-positive traditions within Jewish scripture that were never brought into Christianity, and discusses the added trauma of conversion therapy for LGBTQ+ individuals. She closes by advocating for MDMA-assisted therapy as a powerful trauma-healing tool — when done within proper therapeutic and integrative contexts. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

In this episode, I interviewed Chelsea Kim Long about her forthcoming book, Faithfully Dissident Daughters: Reclaiming Christian Womanhood Beyond Patriarchy. The conversation opens with a discussion of the Southern Baptist denomination's recent ruling restricting women from pastoral roles and the broader rise of Christian nationalism in the United States. Chelsea shares her personal story of growing up in non-denominational evangelicalism in the Midwest, where she was steeped in conservative patriarchal theology that framed gender hierarchies as benevolent.   She describes how her faith began to crack during college, first through questions about LGBTQ inclusion and social justice, and then more profoundly after becoming a mother — when pregnancy, a traumatic birth, postpartum depression, and infertility collided with a theology that had no framework for her embodied suffering. She recounts being told by church communities not to seek mental health medication, enduring years of shame and silence, and finally starting medication in 2020, which she describes as life changing.  Chelsea frames her deconstruction as an "hourglass" experience — everything she knew passed through a narrow, painful filter of grief and self-reckoning, but emerged into a more expansive, authentic faith. She now identifies as post-evangelical but remains a committed Christian, serving as a lay pastor and theologian in an intentional house church community.    Her book argues for a Christianity shaped by women's wisdom and embodied spiritual practice, pushing back against male-dominated theology and calling for spaces where women's bodies, voices, and leadership are fully affirmed. The episode closes with Chelsea describing the book's practical elements — journaling prompts, meditative coloring pages, a discussion guide, and chapters on embodied spiritual practices — and sharing where listeners can pre-order the book and connect with her online.  Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

Author Meg Calvin joins me on the podcast to share her journey from preaching at age 13 in the Methodist church to leaving full-time ministry in 2018. She reflects on how people-pleasing and unhealed childhood wounds drove her pastoral work, and we commiserate about the dysfunctional dynamics of church leadership—pedestals, underpayment, and unqualified boards blocking vision. After leaving ministry, Meg spent eight years exploring mysticism and intuitive development, which culminated in a profound encounter with Jesus that led her back to church—this time integrating her mystical gifts alongside her faith. She now coaches spiritual leaders in writing their books and has just released her debut novel entitled There, He Holds Her. Find a copy of Meg's book here on Amazon! Become a part of The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community Email: [email protected]

In this week's episode, I welcome back a returning guest and good friend, Canadian author and former fundamentalist Christian, Janice Selbie. We discuss her upcoming book, The Guru Gene: From Blind Faith to Clear Thinking in an Age of Influence, dropping at the end of August.   We explore why intelligent, educated people are just as susceptible to cults, cons, and high-control groups as anyone else. To explain this, we touch on cognitive biases like pareidolia and apophenia, the role of certainty over accuracy, echo chambers, and cult dynamics evident in religion, politics (including MAGA and Trump-worship), and beyond.   Drawing on our personal deconversion experiences, we also discuss the destabilizing nature of deconstruction, the importance of community both within and after leaving high-demand groups, and practical tools—like Socratic questioning, intellectual humility, and tolerating uncertainty—for resisting manipulation and helping others find their way out. For those who have left a cult or high-control religious group, this conversation will empower you both to discover and rebuild your authentic self.  Religious Trauma Syndrome Coaching, Workshop & Support Group | Divorcing Religion  Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community at this link! Email: [email protected]