This Old Marketing - News Podcast Weekly with Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose

In this special episode, Joe and Robert answer all the questions from the This Old Marketing audience.  How do backlink strategies (SEO) and citations (AEO) work together, and what unified content strategy can help brands earn both? In the age of GEO, how should membership organizations decide what content to keep free versus behind a paywall, especially when balancing search visibility with exclusive expert value? As AI takes over more execution, will small businesses and solopreneurs still need and pay for human marketing strategy, and how can independent consultants differentiate and stay relevant in an AI-first world? Did the Netflix series about the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders measurably impact the team's brand or game viewership, and is it a model for how entertainment content can elevate a sports franchise's marketing? Should marketers clearly separate "content marketing" (audience-building) from "sales enablement content" (purchase support), and does lumping them together lead to bad strategy and wrong KPIs? If you were starting from zero today, with AI flooding every channel, what would you build first to create real audience trust and attention over the next five years, and what would you completely ignore that most marketers are still chasing? Thanks to all of you for your questions and support. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.  ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert unpack a trio of headlines that perfectly capture the optimism and overconfidence of the AI era. First, Apple and Google announce a multi-year partnership on AI. Two of the most powerful companies on the planet, joining forces to shape the future of intelligence. What could possibly go wrong? Then OpenAI confirms that advertising is coming to ChatGPT later this year. The honeymoon phase of AI is officially over, and the business model phase has arrived. Joe and Robert explore what ads inside conversational interfaces really mean for brands, creators, and trust. Finally, Salesforce steps up to answer MrBeast's call for the "most amazing Super Bowl ad ever" for Super Bowl 2026. When enterprise software meets YouTube spectacle, expectations get set very high. And history suggests that rarely ends quietly. Marketing Winners: Dos Equis, for proving that great brand storytelling and humor still cut through, even in an AI-flooded content world. Breeze Airways, for smart positioning and customer-centric marketing in an industry that desperately needs both. Rants and Raves: The continued rise of AI-generated music hitting the charts, raising uncomfortable questions about creativity, authorship, and what "human" even means in popular culture. A rave for Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, and why its lessons about purpose, suffering, and responsibility feel more relevant now than ever in a world optimized for convenience and automation. As always, the episode ends where This Old Marketing lives best, at the intersection of technology, media, and the timeless human need for meaning, trust, and something real to hold onto. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.  ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork  

In this special episode of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert tackle one of marketing's favorite habits: declaring things dead. Every year, marketers rush to pronounce entire channels, strategies, and ideas obsolete. But many of the things we keep writing off are not only alive, they're quietly doing the hard work of building trust, relevance, and long-term value. Joe and Robert break down what marketers think is dying (but isn't), why these fundamentals continue to matter, and what actually deserves to be put out of its misery. Things Marketers Think Are Dead (But Aren't) The Website Why the website is still the center of gravity for trust, clarity, and audience ownership, especially as platforms become more volatile and AI-driven. Traditional PR and Communications How earned media, relationships, and credibility haven't disappeared, they've become harder to fake and more valuable as synthetic content explodes. Purpose-Driven Marketing Why purpose didn't die. Performative purpose did. Authentic values still matter, but only when they're proven through action over time. In-Person Events The enduring power of physical connection, shared experiences, and real community in a world dominated by digital noise. Things That Probably Should Be Dead Safe Marketing Why playing it safe is the fastest way to be ignored, and how clarity, conviction, and point of view beat neutrality every time. The Myth of Personalization After 25 years of trying to get personalization right, most marketing still confuses data with relevance. True one-to-one personalization at scale remains elusive, often resulting in content that feels generic, invasive, or hollow. The real opportunity isn't more personalization, it's better positioning and messages that resonate deeply without pretending to speak to everyone individually. Coming Soon: Listener Questions Episode In a few weeks, Joe and Robert will be recording a special listener Q&A episode, and they want to hear from you. Have a marketing question you want answered on the show? Submit your question in text or audio form at: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.  ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork  

This week, Joe and Robert break down the latest signals in the economy, media, and marketing, from stabilizing job data and corporate tax incentives to AI's growing influence on content, platforms, and creative work. They also dig into where responsibility lies in an AI-saturated world and which organizations are adapting well…or getting it wrong. Key Topics Discussed Economic Update: Jobs and Stability Joe and Robert open the show with a look at recent U.S. economic data. After months of uncertainty, layoffs appear to have slowed, and job numbers are showing signs of stabilization. While not a return to boom times, the data suggests the labor market may be finding its footing heading into 2026. Corporate Tax Incentives and 2026 Profits The conversation turns to tax policy and its impact on business. Joe and Robert discuss how the permanent reduction of the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%, along with other incentives, is setting mid-sized and enterprise companies up for significantly higher profits in 2026. They explore what this means for cash flow, reinvestment, and corporate behavior moving forward. Instagram, AI, and the Burden on Creators Next up, Joe and Robert analyze comments from Adam Mosseri and Instagram around AI-generated content. Mosseri makes it clear that Instagram does not intend to fully police AI content, instead emphasizing the importance of human creativity and authenticity. Joe and Robert question whether platforms are abdicating responsibility and placing the full burden on brands and creators to stand out in an increasingly cluttered, AI-driven feed. Final News: Uber's Co-Creation Ad Strategy In final news, the guys highlight Uber and its growing advertising business. Uber's co-creation media tactics are viewed as a smart, forward-thinking approach to revenue generation. Joe and Robert agree that too many enterprises still underestimate marketing's role as a direct revenue driver, not just a cost center. Marketing Winners and Losers Marketing Winner (Robert) Equinox Robert praises Equinox for its ad campaign that pokes fun at AI-generated content, using humor and human insight to cut through the noise and reinforce brand identity. Marketing Loser (Joe) Nebula Awards Joe calls out the Nebula Awards for their new rules banning any use of generative AI in the creative process. While intended to protect writers, Joe argues the decision is short-sighted, unenforceable, and misunderstands how creative tools evolve. Rants and Raves Robert's Rant: Robert takes aim at Digiday and what he sees as an overly cozy fascination with Accenture, questioning the value and objectivity of that coverage. Joe's Commentary: Joe closes with thoughts on the Corporation for Public Broadcasting winding down operations. He clarifies that PBS itself is not shutting down, but explains how the loss of federal funding disproportionately impacts rural and small-market stations, potentially reshaping public media into a more urban-centric system. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.  ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose kick off this week's episode by unpacking the TikTok "sale" and what actually happened behind the headlines. Was it really a sale? Why was a true divestiture nearly impossible? And what does the outcome tell us about platform risk, regulation, and the future of rented audiences. From there, Joe and Robert shift into what they believe will be the most important marketing, content, and AI stories of 2026. Not predictions, but the conversations marketers will be having once the year is underway. They dig into whether the long-awaited AI bubble ever actually bursts in marketing, how AI changes headcount and team structures, and what happens to the brand website when search and discovery are increasingly mediated by AI systems instead of humans. The episode wraps with rants and raves. Robert rants about marketers' obsession with declaring everything dead, while Joe rants about Denmark's decision to shut down its postal service and what that signals for the future of physical letters and communication. In this episode, you'll learn: What really happened with the TikTok deal and why it was never a traditional sale Why the AI "bubble" may never pop in marketing the way people expect How AI could lead to fewer marketing jobs, or more leverage for the right roles Why the role of the website is changing for brands and creators What Denmark ending postal service delivery says about the future of letters Rants and raves: Robert's rant: Marketers love predicting the death of everything Joe's rant: Denmark shuts down postal service delivery and the slow disappearance of letters Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.  ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert kick off their annual predictions episode by grading last year's forecasts using ChatGPT. They revisit what hit, what missed, and why context often ruins otherwise solid predictions. Along the way, they discuss AI's uneven progress, platform power shifts, crypto hype, nostalgia marketing, podcast attrition, and the growing tension between tech optimism and cultural fatigue. The episode closes with fresh predictions spanning marketing, media, sports, and culture. Key Topics and Takeaways 2025 Predictions Reviewed (with AI grading) BlueSky stalls while X stabilizes and improves monetization TikTok avoids a ban and continues to grow despite regulatory pressure AI image tools (including early Sora) underwhelm initially Bitcoin fails to hit $200K despite strong institutional momentum Generative AI stumbles, but without a single catastrophic "AI Chernobyl" Online sports gambling faces increased scrutiny and structural pullbacks Podcast attrition accelerates quietly ("pod fading") Major brands lean hard into nostalgia as a hedge against AI sameness One major political prediction completely misses 2026 Prediction Overview Joe goes deep into the importance of email as an indication of humanity and states that the reply rate will be the key KPI for email moving forward. In addition, he makes big bets on: - Famous creators stopping their channels - Elon Musk's net worth at the end of the year - Apple buying Disney Robert believes that AI strategy will no longer be in vogue, and marketers will stop using it altogether because AI will be integrated into everything. Robert also discusses "the Mamdani effect" and how it will take over the election process. Tune in to the episode to get all the predictions right up to the very last minute.  Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing.  ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week on This Old Marketing, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose unpack two seemingly separate Wall Street Journal stories that are actually deeply connected. First, they dig into the WSJ article declaring that companies are now "desperately seeking storytellers." The irony is not lost on Joe and Robert. Storytelling in business is nothing new. Brands have been building audiences, publishing content, and creating narratives for decades. So is this really a new trend, or is the Wall Street Journal simply waking up to what marketers and creators have known all along? They explore why the term "storyteller" is suddenly everywhere on LinkedIn, what companies really mean when they use it, and whether this shift represents real change or just a shiny new label for old work. Next, the conversation turns to another WSJ piece highlighting the growing anxiety among white-collar workers. Layoffs, AI fears, fewer job openings, and slower hiring cycles are reshaping how knowledge workers feel about stability and career growth. Joe and Robert break down the data and argue that the real risk is not losing a job, but tying your identity to a single role or employer. Flexibility, curiosity, and the ability to adapt are becoming the most valuable skills in the modern economy. In news, the co-founder of DraftKings launches a creator-led systems company designed to capitalize on the window of opportunity before AI-generated content floods the market. Joe and Robert discuss why productizing creators and building owned systems may be the smartest move right now in the creator economy. Winners, Losers, Rants, and Raves Marketing Loser: In-N-Out, for taking "Order 67" off the menu rotation and confusing loyal fans everywhere. Joe's Winner: Tom Scott, for building a smart, thoughtful web presence that directly addresses AI scrapers and the future of content ownership. Joe's Rant: The growing push to integrate prediction markets into the mainstream financial system and why this could have serious unintended consequences. Robert's Rave: A tradition unlike any other. Robert closes the show with his annual holiday poem. As always, Joe and Robert bring perspective, skepticism, and a little holiday spirit to wrap up the year. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Joe and Robert open the episode with major breaking news: Disney is reportedly finalizing a $1 billion investment in OpenAI along with a licensing deal that would allow creators to use select Disney IP inside OpenAI tools. The boys unpack what this actually means— Why Disney is making this move now How this could transform creator workflows What Disney gets strategically vs. what OpenAI gains Whether this is the first domino in a wave of entertainment–AI partnerships The $100 Billion Battle for Warner Bros. Discovery Next, Joe and Robert dig into the increasingly chaotic race for Warner Bros., as Paramount, Skydance, and Netflix position themselves for what could be a $100B mega-deal. They discuss: Who really has the leverage Which bidder makes the most strategic sense Potential antitrust concerns Who stands to win (and who almost certainly loses) if this deal happens Australia Moves to Ban Social Media for Kids Under 16 The conversation shifts to Australia's new legislation banning social media access for children under 16. Joe and Robert debate: Will it work? How would it even be enforced? Are governments finally becoming serious—or is this political theater? What responsibility platforms have in the mental-health crisis Special Segment: Robert's AI Music Persona, Lyla Rae Hightower A highlight of the episode, Robert takes listeners behind the scenes of creating his AI-powered music persona. He details: The creative spark behind the character Tools and workflows he used to bring the music to life Unexpected challenges in the process How he's distributing and promoting the project Why this experiment signals a new frontier for creators Spotify https://open.spotify.com/artist/09m7OjGKcL1aOKKqyhZjui   Apple Music https://music.apple.com/us/artist/lyla-rae-hightower/1857062007   YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDwdVLXGCWaO-SMOLuhSE8Q   Website https://lylahightower.com/ Winners & Losers Marketing Loser of the Week: Salesforce — Joe walks through the company's confusing decision to consider a name change and what it signals about the brand's broader struggles. Rants & Raves: Joe ends with commentary on Kara Swisher's reporting around Apple possibly buying Disney—and whether such a deal is even remotely plausible. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

The boys kick things off with a Black Friday breakdown and what it tells us about the K-shaped economy we now live in. Joe and Robert dig into spending trends, why some consumers are thriving while others are cutting back, and what this split means for marketers heading into 2026. They look at whether this year's patterns are temporary or structural, and what smart brands should prepare for next. From there, they turn to YouTube. Advertisers continue to shift budgets to the platform, and the data shows that YouTube is both the present and the future of television. Joe and Robert talk about how ultra-niche creators might be the biggest hidden opportunity for small and mid-sized brands looking to win in the influencer economy. The final story covers X and the platform's new "About Your Account" settings. Is it meaningful, helpful, or even newsworthy? The boys debate whether this is a real improvement or just another attempt to show activity without fixing the core issues. Winners and Losers Winner: Time Joe highlights Time as an example of a legacy brand doing things right, with a renewed focus on email subscribers and a strong commitment to in-person events. A modern media model built on direct relationships, not algorithms. Loser: Omnicom and the PR industry Robert takes the gloves off with a critique of Omnicom and the state of PR. He questions whether the industry is adapting fast enough to the shifts in trust, media fragmentation, and brand storytelling. Rants and Raves Robert's Rant Robert digs into a recent IPG study and why he believes it misses the mark. He breaks down the assumptions behind the research and what marketers should actually pay attention to. Joe's Rave Joe shares new research on gratitude and why it matters far more than most marketers realize. A positive scientific reminder that appreciation is a performance advantage, not just a personal virtue. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

Google's release of Gemini 3 may be the biggest shift in search and content discovery since Google launched. In this episode, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose break down what Gemini means for marketers, creators, and anyone relying on organic reach. Will Gemini end organic discovery as we know it? Will synthetic creators become the majority of all content online? And is there still a path forward for human creators? Joe and Robert go deep into: Google's move from traditional search to a full AI-model Why this shift could make Google even more dominant What happens to creators when platforms auto-generate the content The new ad model emerging behind AI search The long-term implications for independent writers, podcasters, and entrepreneurs Winners & Losers: Joe spotlights Allegiant Stadium as a branding masterclass Robert unveils a conspiracy theory surrounding Jeffrey Katzenberg's new AI marketing startup Rants & Raves: Joe reacts to a Washington Post survey about people reading ChatGPT-created posts — and why he's concerned it could impact birth rates Robert shares the creative friction behind building an AI-generated country music artist If you're a marketer, creator, or business owner trying to understand what's coming next, this is a must-listen episode. News we didn't get to: Meta 'buried' more evidence Creator Economy ad spend up again Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this special Thanksgiving edition of This Old Marketing, Joe and Robert dive into the future of AI and what it really means for marketers, creators, and anyone trying to build an audience in the next few years. The boys explore how long traditional marketing roles will remain intact and why we may be much closer to a tipping point than most people want to believe. The Window Is Closing Joe and Robert revisit a theme they've both been writing about lately: the shrinking window of time before AI reshapes content, distribution, and discoverability. They break down what creators and marketers can still do right now to secure their position before the landscape shifts for good. Their take: you have a few years. Maybe less. And waiting is not a strategy. The Real Job of the Future In a world where AI generates nearly everything instantly, Joe and Robert ask the big question: what will the actual marketing job look like five or ten years from now? The answer isn't another technical role. It isn't prompt engineering. It isn't "AI operations." The position of the future is rooted in skills AI can't replicate: Being known personally by real people Building in-person trust Hosting gatherings, leading communities, and showing up in the real world Connecting human beings to human beings If AI floods the world with infinite content, the new scarcity becomes physical presence. What Creators Must Do Next The boys outline the shift every marketer and content entrepreneur must make: from chasing reach to cultivating real connections. From relying on platforms to building owned audiences. From algorithmic exposure to human relationships that cannot be automated. This special episode is a wake-up call and a roadmap rolled into one. Why This Matters Right Now Thanksgiving is a time for reflection, and the episode closes with Joe and Robert reminding listeners that the next few years are arguably the most important years in the history of marketing. AI will change everything. But it won't replace the marketers who understand what actually makes people move, trust, and gather. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

The episode kicks off with a pointed look at Meta, which seems to be earning a fortune from fraudulent and scam ads. Joe and Robert trace the pattern back more than a decade…from election misinformation to repeated scandals. The question emerges: Is Meta the least ethical major player in the industry today? This conversation naturally leads into a look at the growing AI bubble and Michael Burry's bet against The Magnificent Ten. While his prediction may eventually play out, the boys debate why we're likely still two years away from any real correction. Top Stories Meta's Long History of Trouble Joe and Robert walk through Meta's pattern of behavior, including the current windfall from scam ads, reminders of past election interference issues, and the repeated failure to effectively police the platform. The bigger question: if this is systemic, where does it go from here? The AI Bubble and Michael Burry's Bet The legendary investor who foretold the mortgage crisis is now shorting the biggest tech companies. The boys give context on why he might be early, what signals they're watching, and what marketers should learn from speculative hype cycles. Disney Spends Up…But Not Where You Think Disney is increasing content spending, but the bulk is shifting toward live sports and in-person experiences. Joe and Robert discuss what this means for marketers and why "experiential" continues to be a long-term bet. Coke's AI Holiday Ad Maker Responds The studio responsible for Coca-Cola's AI holiday ad gives its defense. Is this just another evolution of creative tools, or are creators right to be irritated? The boys break down the nuance. Winners and Losers Joe's Winner: Netflix House Smart expansion into experiential entertainment. A real signal of where media companies are headed. Robert's Loser: The end of the Farmer's Almanac A long-running institution finally fades. Robert shares why this one stings and what it says about legacy content. Rants and Raves Robert's Rant: Microsoft's sales content Robert has feelings…big ones. And he shares them. Joe's Commentary: Chatbot JesusWhat could go wrong? Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week, Joe and Robert cover three major AI stories shaping the creative and marketing landscape. First, the guys break down the debut of Xania Monet, the first AI-powered artist to land on a Billboard chart. Is this the start of a new music era...or the beginning of the end for human creativity? Next, they unwrap Coca-Cola's second annual holiday AI ad. But this year, it's not just Coke. Expect a wave of AI-generated holiday campaigns across brands. Joe and Robert debate what this means for creative differentiation and audience connection. Finally, they analyze Bloomberry's massive study of 180 million jobs, revealing how AI is reshaping the global workplace faster than anyone imagined. Who's safe, who's not, and what can marketers learn from the data? Winners and Losers: Robert's Winner: Gannett's bold rebrand to USA Today—a move that simplifies identity and aligns with its strongest brand equity. Joe's Winner: Print media. Joe points out the surprising long-term resilience of print and why physical media might be the next big comeback. Rants and Raves: A new journalism collective forms to sell sponsorships - Robert shares his take on why collaboration is an important way forward for small creators. More college students are choosing double majors - Joe digs into what that says about the next generation of marketers. Subscribe and Follow: Follow Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose on LinkedIn for insights, hot takes, and weekly updates from the world of content and marketing. This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

It's another wild week in the world of marketing, media, and tech. First up: Amazon announced yet another round of layoffs, and Joe and Robert dive into the growing trend among the Magnificent 10 companies. Are these just normal business cycles? The result of AI-driven productivity? Or signs of something deeper happening in the global economy? Then: OpenAI is restructuring to look more like a traditional for-profit company. With Microsoft now owning 27%, the boys debate what this means for control, innovation, and the company's future. Could OpenAI become the world's first trillion-dollar IPO? Next: Morning Brew acquires a YouTube show about the news — and Joe explains why this is another major example of individual creators getting their work acquired and then integrating themselves into larger organizations. In Marketing Winners & Losers, Robert dives into K-Pop Demon Hunters, while Joe highlights Elon Musk's Grokipedia. And in Rants & Raves, Joe shares how email newsletters can literally get you hired, while Robert takes aim at the new WPP–Google AI partnership. Listen to the full episode for all the analysis, tangents, and laughs you expect from Joe and Robert on This Old Marketing. This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

This week's episode of This Old Marketing dives deep into the evolving world of AI, automation, and creator opportunities. 1. OpenAI's ChatGPT Atlas: A Google Killer? OpenAI's latest product, ChatGPT Atlas, has some wondering if this is a direct strike at Google's dominance in search. We break down what Atlas is, how it changes the discovery landscape, and what it means for marketers and creators. 2. AI and Robots Taking Jobs A New York Times article reports that Amazon plans to replace over half a million jobs with robots. But the twist? The AI industry itself is facing layoffs. Meta has cut significant staff from its AI operations, according to Axios. We explore what this says about the current state — and future — of the AI economy. 3. ChatGPT to Allow Adult Erotica (for Verified Users) OpenAI will soon allow adult-themed content for verified adults. Is this a necessary step toward realism and maturity online, or is it a PR nightmare waiting to happen? We debate whether the Internet needs true age-gating — or if this will end up being a "nothing burger," as Robert might say. 4. Creators Take Flight — Literally Marketing Brew reports that YouTube creators are getting their content featured on Delta Airlines flights. It's a great marketing move — but does it signal that YouTube is becoming television? We discuss what this means for creators' reach and brand positioning. Marketing Winners of the Week Ann Handley's new website: A masterclass in simplicity and conversion, with a sharp focus on driving newsletter subscriptions. Kim Kardashian's Skims.com launch: A weirdly nostalgic move that has everyone talking. Raves of the Week Joe's Rave: The CRIT Framework from Geoff Woods — a practical model for using AI strategically through Context, Role, Interview, and Task. And get a month of Wispr Flow (dictation platform) for free here. Robert's Rave: Spotify's new personalized playlists that take algorithmic curation to the next level. Listen to the full episode for all the analysis, tangents, and laughs you expect from Joe and Robert on This Old Marketing. This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

In this episode, Joe and Robert break down the latest moves in the ongoing battle between lawmakers and social media giants. California is leading the charge with new AI and social media legislation — plus, Instagram is testing a "rating system" for content. Is this meaningful progress or just more political theater? The guys also cover how OpenAI and Anthropic are stepping into the marketing world. OpenAI's first ad sparks debate (is it a miss?), while Anthropic's experiential push might have us all saying "Oh Claude." Winners and Losers: Winner: Buc-ee's - proving that a gas station can be a brand powerhouse. Loser: Deloitte Australia - struggling to recover from credibility issues. Rants and Raves: Rant: The rise of rage bait - how outrage is driving engagement for all the wrong reasons. Rave: Personal videos on LinkedIn - authentic storytelling that actually connects. Tune in for another week of marketing madness, strategic insights, and questionable football takes. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork

After celebrating 500 weeks of podcasting, Joe and Robert are back to regular programming. And this week… things get weird. OpenAI and Meta both dropped major updates to their AI apps—releases that could either spark the next great social network or bring about the end of the internet as we know it. The guys break down what these announcements mean for creators, advertisers, and the future of "artificial content." In other news, Anthropic settles a $1.5 billion lawsuit that could mean payouts for authors everywhere (and a big precedent for copyright in AI). Plus, Call Her Daddy's Alex Cooper launches a new marketing agency that might just be the new business model for content entrepreneurs. And YouTube rolls out auto dubbing for creators and marketers. Joe and Robert debate whether that's a blessing or a curse. This week's winner: CMI's new B2B Research Report. This week's loser: China's growing propaganda machine. Rants and Raves: A look at ABBA Voyage and MrBeast, two very different but equally fascinating examples of what happens when creativity, technology, and obsession collide. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork  

It's here...the 500th episode of This Old Marketing! In this very special show, Joe Pulizzi and Robert Rose take a walk down memory lane, sharing stories, clips, and predictions from across the past twelve years of the podcast. Along the way, they're joined by some surprise guests and special videos from friends of the show. Highlights from the Episode The Beginning (Episode 1 – November 20, 2013): Joe and Robert recall the car ride that sparked the idea and how they launched the first episode in less than two weeks. Hear the original introduction, plus proof that football talk has always been part of the show's DNA. Episode 100 (October 12, 2015): Reflections on content marketing trends a decade ago, from the rise of content brands to the great terminology debate. Joe predicts the rise of the walled gardens, Robert envisions marketing's shift toward experiences, and both make some bold (and hilarious) calls about Apple, Disney, and Twitter. Episode 200 (September 11, 2017): A nostalgic milestone filled with clips, insights on audience building, and predictions around Facebook's billion-dollar content push. Highlights include Robert's reflections on the value of audience and the duo's "can't believe we made it this far" moment. Episode 211 (December 11, 2017): The original "finale" - Joe and Robert answer listener questions, quiz each other, and close out what they thought was the end of the journey. Episode 212 (July 15, 2019): The "Genesis Planet" comeback episode after 577 days away. Joe and Robert return in full stride, proving the magic never left. Episode 300 (December 3, 2021): The first video podcast, featuring a special musical intro from Gary Busey. Predictions fly about Web 3.0, tokenization, the metaverse, and the future of "rented land." Plus, cocktails, personal reflections, and football banter. Episode 400 (November 3, 2023): "AI & the Melting of Truth" marks another milestone with big conversations around AI, search, and Disney's media moves. A clip on Google's AI results shows just how much the world has shifted. Special Surprises A video greeting from filmmaker Kevin Smith A montage of messages from listeners and friends of the show. Thank you to A. Lee Judge, Bert Van Loon, Brian Piper, Cathy & Bridget McPhillips, Fernando Labastida, JK Kalinowski, Katie Brinkley, Maliha Khan, Paul Roetzer and Ruth Carter. A heartfelt video from author and speaker Andrew Davis Rants & Raves Yes, even in this celebratory episode, Joe and Robert can't resist a few choice rants and raves. (You'll just have to listen in!) Thank you for being part of 500 weeks of This Old Marketing. We couldn't have done it without you. Here's to the next chapter! ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork  

In the final show before the big 500 extravaganza, Joe and Robert discuss why individual creators are slowly taking over Hollywood — and whether there are opportunities for brands in this shift. The creator takeover: Ad Age: Why creators, not studios, will lead production by 2030 Sports meets streaming: New Heights integration with Amazon Prime — Travis and Jason Kelce's New Heights podcast will now stream on Amazon Prime. Buying media properties: Why a marketing consultant bought the largest real estate trade magazine in Canada (link). Winners and Losers: Winner: Kit launches location-based creators. Loser: Unilever gives up on Ben & Jerry's after its co-founder claims the company silenced activism. Rants and Raves: Joe rants about job hugging. Robert rants about AI workslop. And don't miss our special #500 episode next week. ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork  

No, TikTok does not stop. Maybe the fourth time is the charm, as Robert and Joe run through the latest with the TikTok "staying or going" drama. Get all the latest on the changes, although it might be a big nothing burger. Link to more: U.S.-China Deal to Avert TikTok Ban May be Close, Trump Official Says - The New York Times YouTube makes a strong case that they are integral to the US economy. With $100 billion going to creators, new and improved creation features, and an all-in-one create and distribute scenario, it seems like everything we want. Or is it? Links to more: YouTube AI likeness detection and creator tools - The Wrap Made on YouTube 2025 - Official Blog Albania has become the first country in the world to appoint an AI minister. Joe contends this is just the beginning. Link to more: Albania appoints world's first AI-made minister – POLITICO Special thanks to Jared Luttjeboer for his question on video vs. audio podcasting. Learn more about Jared's work here: The Church History Project Podcast Marketing winners and losers include: Local TV has lost more than half of its share of media spending since 2017 – TV Technology The Friend Show – Truman Show-Inspired Campaign by Creator's Friend Rants and raves include: Alden's bid for DallasNews – Axios GenAI college marketing: positioning as academic friends, not foes ------- This week's sponsor: Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out. Point is, you miss a lot. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts.  All that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. Visit https://www.hubspot.com/ to hear how HubSpot can help you grow better. ------- Get all the show notes: https://www.thisoldmarketing.com/ Get Joe's new book, Burn the Playbook, at http://www.joepulizzi.com/books/burn-the-playbook/ Subscribe to Joe's Newsletter at https://www.joepulizzi.com/signup/. Get Robert Rose's new book, Valuable Friction, at https://robertrose.net/valuable-friction/  Subscribe to Robert's Newsletter at https://seventhbearlens.substack.com/ ------- This Old Marketing is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network: https://www.hubspot.com/podcastnetwork