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Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher.
Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
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In this conversation, Rich and Tim and Mark Hopfenbeck explore the concept of Open Dialogue, its origins, and its application in mental health and social work. They discuss the importance of community involvement, the need for continuity in care, and the training required to develop relational skills. Mark emphasizes the significance of peer support and the challenges faced in implementing Open Dialogue in various settings. The conversation also touches on the role of evidence in validating O...
In this episode, we speak with Dr Mina Fazel, a British psychiatrist who is Professor and Chair of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Oxford. Her research considers the mental health of children and young people, and how to design effective mental health interventions. We talk to her about a recent paper: Adolescent consent and Generation Alpha: bridging policy, practice and empirical evidence in healthcare, you can download it here: h...
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
This week, we speak to Seana, a social worker in a Child in Care Team. We explore what her role involves, how she builds relationships with young people, carers, and families, and the challenges she faces—as well as what helps her keep going. We’re really grateful to Seana for taking the time to talk with us, especially given how busy the role is. We hope you enjoy her passion, child‑centred practice, and commitment to the work as much as we did. Relational Activism: https://www.r...
In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fear, guilt, and compassion, into leadership and workplace culture, challenging the “hero narrative”...
In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fear, guilt, and compassion, into leadership and workplace culture, challenging the “hero narrative”...
Rich and Tim are back in the studio of the Messy Social Work Podcast, shaking off the holiday cobwebs and diving straight into the age-old tradition of New Year’s resolutions. Tim’s on a mission to set some firm boundaries, while Rich is dreaming of carving out a little breathing space—because who doesn’t need that in social work? But that’s not all. We’ve got our roving news correspondent and Community Care editor, Mithran Samuels, joining us to give the lowdown on what’s changing across chi...
Rich and Tim are joined by Andrew Turnell to reflect on 2025. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, we sit down with Professor Donald Forrester, researcher and social worker. We talk about why he thinks social workers are a bit like Nanny McPhee, why social work isn’t really about “helping,” and why conflict sits at the heart of the work we do. Donald shares the stories behind some of his most memorable anecdotes—from the baseball bat incident to the £20 haircut—and what they taught him about dignity, power, and human connection....
Rich and Tim sit down with Charlotte Clark, a practising frontline child protection social worker, to explore what it means to build trust in contexts where distrust runs deep. From navigating statutory power dynamics to managing conflict under intense pressure, Charlotte shares insights from her early career journey, reporting from the frontline and reflects on the relational skills that matter most. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection...
Full research and report found here https://kinship.org.uk/our-work-and-impact/research/raised-by-relatives/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma. We explore McGarvey’s core argument that trauma has become a kind of cultural currency, often stripped of nuance and turned into content. We talk about the emotional labour placed on lived-experience workers, the myths of the “hero’s journey,” and the three layers of victimhood: victimhoo...
In this Connecting Research episode, we speak to a lecturer and researcher at University College London, Dr Patrizia Pezzoli, about an article she co-authored, titled: Lived-experience perspectives on the psychological factors linking childhood maltreatment to later intimate partner violence victimization. See paper here which is available OPEN ACCESS. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-wo...
In this episode, we have a returning guest: social worker and team manager Toni Mayo. Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning. Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for practitioners to stop—and how doing so can radically improve our wellbeing and the quality of our practice. We talk about: The systemic pressures that reward constant “doing”The emotional and professional cost of never stoppingHow rest, reflection, and inner a...
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Context Counts: Improving the analysis of socio-economic context and intersectionality in Local Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews: https://www.techne.ac.uk/research-and-education/departments-and-schools/law-and-criminology/research/our-projects-and-research-impact/context-counts-improving-the-analysis-of-socio-economic-context-and-intersectionality-in-local-child-safeguarding-practice-reviews/ Rich's BASW Child Protect...
Josh MacAlister has said he’d like children to have a choice of where and with whom they live: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/02/children-in-care-should-have-choice-of-where-and-with-whom-they-live-says-macalister/ Applications to register children’s homes are rocketing, such that Ofsted is having to prioritise applications, leaving others having to wait up to 18 months. https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/13/some-childrens-homes-face-waits-of-up-to-18-months-to-register-un...
In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence. Drawing on powerful research and direct testimony from children and young people, Paul shares what they say really matters when professionals make decisions about kinship care, permanence, and support. We explore: Why listening to children is essential in kinship care planningThe emotional and relational compl...
In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who gets to tell them, and what happens when experience becomes currency. This is a conversation about ethics, representation, and the uncomfortable edges of practice. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Prote...
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