Phoenix and Flame Podcast

First aired September 6, 2026 Dennis Bairos oversees more than 29 fitness locations across Texas, and somewhere between the grand openings and the late-night emails, he noticed a pattern: he was the guy who'd rather miss a flight than admit he needed help, the coach whose sideline energy made his own wife ask if he was okay, and the traveler who'd rather squeeze in one more phone call than let 20 free minutes in a rental car go to waste. That pattern became his book, Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It!, a look at the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, and on the sideline of a kid's game that shape how men actually behave, often without them noticing. We talk about why "I got it" might be the most dangerous phrase a man can say, the difference between healthy work ethic and ego-driven burnout, why men go all-in on a hobby and then abandon it completely, and how his wife became the one voice who could see what he couldn't. Watch this episode https://youtu.be/sRsXcIgmVAo In this episode Why "I got it" might be the most dangerous phrase men say, and the ego hiding underneath it How Dennis's competitive, all-or-nothing wiring showed up coaching his kids' T-ball team, and the moment his wife had to tell him he'd gone overboard The real story behind missing a flight because he couldn't stop multitasking, even for a 20-minute drive to the airport Why work ethic can be a genuine skill and a trap at the same time, and how to tell the difference before it becomes burnout What's actually happening when a man goes all-in on a hobby, buys all the gear, and then drops it completely a year later How framing "asking for help" as the next level of leadership, instead of a weakness, changes the way teams operate Why a leader's pace becomes part of their identity, and the hidden cost that pace puts on everyone who reports to them Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dennis Bairos, author of Wired Like This (00:57) His background in high-growth fitness leadership, and how that pace carried over to parenting (03:51) "Stop half-assing it": the moment Dana's own son called out her push, push, push mentality (05:54) Is "I got it" a male trait, or does Dana see it in women too? (08:38) The fear of slowing down: work ethic, ego, and the competition to be first in, last out (12:06) The missed flight: a real-time example of multitasking costing more than it saves (14:55) Why "I got it" might be the most dangerous thing men say (18:25) Reframing asking for help as the next level of leadership, not a weakness (22:13) What his wife saw in his coaching that he couldn't see in himself (24:52) The T-ball season that revealed his coaching had gone overboard (27:13) Why men go all-in on a hobby, then drop it completely (33:22) The airport conversation that changed how he leads: why a leader's pace becomes their identity (36:53) Where to find Dennis, his book, and his Instagram About Dennis Bairos Dennis Bairos is the author of Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It! A husband and father of three, he oversees more than 29 fitness locations across Texas as a senior leader in high-growth, high-volume organizations. He writes about the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, and on the sideline of a kid's game that shape how men actually behave. Connect with Dennis on Instagram or LinkedIn. His book, Wired Like This, is available exclusively on Amazon. Favorite quotes "I got it" might be the most dangerous thing men say. —Dennis Bairos "When your pace becomes your identity, the people who follow you don't just see the results — they see the costs." —Dennis Bairos "You will be more successful, and looked at as someone that's admired a little bit more, because you took that extra step and showed courage to ask for help." —Dennis Bairos Resources mentioned Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It!: Dennis's book, available exclusively on Amazon Dennis on Instagram: @keep.the.edge Dennis Bairos on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Read the full transcript [Dana] (00:01) Welcome, friends. Whether you're out on a walk, running errands, or relaxing at home, it's wonderful to connect with you. Joining us today is Dennis Bairos. Dennis is the author of Wired Like This: Why Men Push Too Far and Still Say, I Got It! He's a husband, a father of three, with a background in senior leadership. He writes about the small, everyday decisions at home, at work, on the sideline of a kid's game, that shape how men actually behave. Dennis, welcome to Phoenix and Flame. [Dennis] (00:47) Yeah, thanks for having me. Guilty — yeah, all of that's correct. I did write that book. Happy to be here, and looking forward to the conversation. [Dana] (00:57) This is fantastic. First of all, I'm interested in a bit of your background. You said you were in senior leadership — since I do a lot of work in the corporate space, helping people with burnout, that was one of the things that drew me to you: the masculine, the male mindset that could possibly trip somebody up at work. I work with high performers, and they say the things that are in your book. So I want to create some space for you to share — what experiences have you had in senior leadership, what have you noticed there, and also with your family, and how these things helped you arrive at writing a book? [Dennis] (01:47) Yeah, so I've been in the fitness industry for quite some time — practically my entire career. Most of the organizations I've been with, including the current one, have been really high-volume, high-growth companies. I currently oversee over 29 locations here in Texas, big-box fitness spaces, so really rampant growth. Most of my career, I've had to move pretty fast — it's nonstop. I've had to work a lot, and most of it is self-induced, just me trying to keep up and trying to be a high performer myself. I think that's natural for me — I'm a natural leader, so I'm always taking probably more ownership than the average person. And that's carried over to my family and my children. I noticed early on that I brought that over to my kids as well. Once they started getting into youth sports, that drive, that push, the long practices, the long hours — it's funny, on a podcast last week I was asked, "do you feel like you're bringing over your own competitiveness from your past as a child competing in sports?" And I thought about it for a second — I don't think so. I don't have this unsettled, failed athletic career I'm trying to settle through my children. I think it's just natural for me to push, to teach kids that if you want to get better at something, you've got to keep practicing, keep moving. I'm kind of an all-or-nothing person. I don't watch many sports, but the ones I do, I'm all in, a diehard fan. That's really how I run my life — it's very much natural. [Dana] (03:51) I love this description. I'm taking notes as you're talking, because I don't want to interrupt you. I'd like to be able to say the same — no, I'm a very competitive person. I get bruises playing musical chairs, and that's not hyperbole — I literally had bruises from my shoulders to my ankles playing musical chairs one year at a fall festival at my church. So I'm thinking of the phrase, "if you're not bleeding, you're not playing." I have three kids as well, and my husband is also a very competitive person. And my youngest son confronted me, appropriately so, one time — I'd said to him one too many times, "stop half-assing it," and he called me on it. I feel like it was appropriate, because I was so in my own head about push, push, push, push, and he'd had it — I'd gone too far. I think that's a lot of what you're talking about in your book, and I want to hear more. Your book is focused on men, and I want to ask — if your experience has been, not necessarily with your daughter, but with coworkers, friends — do you feel like this can be a personality style? Have you run into men who didn't have this "I got it, I'm not going to use GPS, I'm going to figure this out" kind of drive? How much of that do you feel is a male trait, which I think a lot of people would agree with, and have you seen these traits in some of the women you've interacted with as well? [Dennis] (05:54) Certainly. From a female perspective — my wife and I, the dynamic between us — my wife works incredibly hard, works remote, homeschools all three of our children, works out every day, but she's got this self-regulation in her that I don't seem to have, or at least mine doesn't work the same way. She'll come up with reasons to sleep and the need for sleeping, and I come up with reasons not to sleep. Even though I have a fitness-minded background and know the importance of it, for whatever reason, I can't seem to sleep past 6 a.m. on a Saturday. So I see similarities across the board. What's interesting is when I released the book, I started getting calls and texts, or I'd run into people — men who I'd think have completely different personalities from mine. Guys who don't have children, don't participate in sports, aren't ultra-competitive — they'd read my book and tell me, "we're a lot alike." I found that interesting. There are so many patterns and similarities, whatever it may

First aired September 6, 2026 Dr. Charleanea Arellano has spent over 30 years as a clinical psychologist and leadership coach, but the framework she's best known for now, the Embodied Narrative Framework, didn't come from a textbook. It came from putting away laundry five years ago and noticing her own body bracing for impact, for no reason at all, at age 55, after decades of actually being safe. Dr. Arellano built her career studying how high-achieving women lead while carrying nervous systems shaped by trauma, and by the added weight of managing how their race, sexuality, or gender is perceived in the room. As a queer Latina psychologist who didn't come out publicly until 2024, and who spent years often being the only person of color at the table, she's lived the pattern she now helps her clients unwind. We talk about what a chronically activated nervous system actually feels like in the body, the subtle and not-so-subtle ways bias shows up in a room, why "just get a massage" isn't a real fix for high achievers, and the simple, several-times-a-day nervous system reset she teaches instead. Watch this epsiode on Youtube | Subscribe  In this episode Why Dr. Arellano's own healing journey, not her doctorate, is what actually led her to the nervous system work she's known for today What it felt like to be the only person of color in the room for decades, and the subtle versus overt ways bias and microaggressions actually show up How to tell when your nervous system is activated, from bracing for impact to chronic anxiety, and why it starts in the body, not the mind The physical toll of years of unresolved activation: TMJ, chronic headaches, fatigue, digestive issues, and more Why women and men are socialized to handle stress so differently, and what that means for high-achieving women specifically The several-times-a-day nervous system reset Dr. Arellano teaches her clients, and why it only takes seconds Balancing connection and protection with family members who caused real harm, and what it looks like to set a boundary without needing them to understand it Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet psychologist and Embodied Narrative Framework founder Dr. Charleanea Arellano (03:07) Her path into psychology: curiosity about human behavior, a high school class, and a PhD by 29 (05:26) "We are a version of our perfect client": how her own experience as a high achiever managing perceptions shaped her work (07:52) The subtle and overt ways bias shows up in a room, from stopped conversations to backhanded compliments (11:49) Stepping away from the professional world in 2003 after years of navigating belonging and credibility (13:24) What it actually feels like when your nervous system is activated: bracing, anxiety, and the body's fight-or-run response (20:35) The chronic physical toll: TMJ, headaches, fatigue, digestive issues, and chronic pain (24:30) Why women carry stress differently than men, and what that means for high-achieving women (25:57) The several-times-a-day nervous system reset, and why "just get a massage" doesn't work for high achievers (33:36) Her books: the memoir Terrible Gifts and The Last Dance, on intergenerational trauma with her father (37:01) Balancing connection and protection: boundaries with family members who caused real harm (40:06) Where to find Dr. Arellano and her work About Dr. Charleanea Arellano Dr. Charleanea Arellano is a licensed psychologist and Board Certified Life Coach with over 30 years of clinical and leadership experience, and the founder of the Embodied Narrative Framework. A queer Latina psychologist, she helps high-achieving women understand how nervous system patterns, trauma-adapted achievement, and the added stress of managing how their race, sexuality, or gender is perceived shape the way they decide, lead, and relate to success. Her own healing journey, including decades of navigating rooms where she was often the only person of color, informs her work today. She's the author of the forthcoming memoir Terrible Gifts: Finding the Light in the Darkest of Places, and The Last Dance, which explores intergenerational trauma through her relationship with her father. Learn more at Dr. Charleanea's website, or connect with her on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "We are a version of our perfect client." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano "It starts with the nervous system. The nervous system is online before we have any conscious thought about it. It's running the show." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano "This is hygiene. This is another form of hygiene — nervous system hygiene that you do throughout the day." —Dr. Charleanea Arellano, on why a 30-second reset matters as much as brushing your teeth Resources mentioned Dr. Charleanea's website: home to her coaching practice and more on the Embodied Narrative Framework Terrible Gifts: Finding the Light in the Darkest of Places: Dr. Arellano's forthcoming memoir, currently in the publication process The Last Dance: her book on intergenerational trauma, told through her relationship with her father Dr. Charleanea Arellano on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard. (These are affiliate links — Dana may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.) Take the free Work Boundaries Quiz

First aired August 23, 2026 Annette Mullin spent 24 years with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, nine of them as a crisis negotiator, eventually leading one of the busiest negotiation teams in the country â€" averaging over 100 call-outs a year. She worked patrol, sexual assault, internal affairs, and homicide, becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, before spending her final years as the department's director of employee wellness in the aftermath of the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting, the largest mass shooting in U.S. history. Now a negotiation instructor and coach at the Black Swan Group, founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss, Annette translates those high-stakes lessons into practical tools for leaders, teams, and individuals navigating pressure, conflict, and growth. We talk about the universal need she discovered in every person she ever negotiated with, why the crime itself is almost always a secondary issue, what "tactical empathy" actually looks like in practice, and why most of us were never actually taught how to listen. Watch this episode Youtube episode link here In this episode How the O.J. Simpson case and a criminalistics program in LA sparked Annette's path into crime scene investigation, and why she chose Las Vegas over LAPD Joining LVMPD's crisis negotiation team, and what made Las Vegas's team one of the busiest in the country Becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, and the advice that helped her navigate a male-dominated field without making it about gender Why removing assumptions, and getting curious instead of judgmental, changed how she worked with people in crisis The universal need Annette discovered every person in crisis shares, no matter how different the circumstances Why the crime itself is almost always a secondary issue, and what's usually driving it underneath How Chris Voss's "tactical empathy" model, from Never Split the Difference, turns negotiation into collaboration instead of a tug-of-war The five levels of listening Black Swan teaches, and why most of us are trained to listen to respond instead of to understand Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet retired LVMPD crisis negotiator Annette Mullin (02:23) From the East Coast to Las Vegas: the O.J. Simpson case and her path into crime scene investigation (04:42) Joining the crisis negotiation team, and Las Vegas's brutal call-out numbers (06:36) Retiring after serving as director of employee wellness following the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting (08:15) What drew her to law enforcement as a kid, from Nancy Drew to Quincy, M.E. (10:10) Navigating gender in a male-dominated field, and becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant (14:00) Removing assumptions: why curiosity beats judgment when someone has "a chip on their shoulder" (16:52) The universal need every person in crisis shares, and why that surprised her most (20:05) Why the crime is almost always the secondary issue (24:28) From hostage negotiation to the boardroom: Chris Voss, Black Swan Group, and tactical empathy (28:43) The biggest obstacle to listening, and the five levels of listening Black Swan teaches (31:50) The number one struggle business leaders bring to her, and why practicing in "low stakes" moments matters (34:12) Where to find Annette, Black Swan Group, and the new book Fight Less, Win More About Annette Mullin Annette Mullin is a retired Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department leader with 24 years of law enforcement experience, including nine years as a crisis negotiator and eventual leader of LVMPD's crisis negotiation team, one of the busiest in the country. Over her career she worked patrol, community policing, sexual assault, internal affairs, and homicide, becoming LVMPD's first female homicide sergeant, before serving as the department's director of employee wellness in the aftermath of the October 1 Mandalay Bay shooting. Now a negotiation instructor and coach at the Black Swan Group, founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss, Annette teaches the principles behind Never Split the Difference, including tactical empathy, to leaders, teams, and individuals navigating pressure and conflict in business and life. Learn more at the Black Swan Group, or connect with Annette on LinkedIn. Favorite quotes "There is a universal need for every person to be heard, to be seen, and to be understood."  "Not everybody is like you. Removing assumptions was really key, let them show you or tell you."  "If I read a book about working out every week but never lift a weight, I can't expect to see anything different."  Resources mentioned Black Swan Group: negotiation training founded by former FBI lead hostage negotiator Chris Voss Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss: the book that brings hostage-negotiation principles like tactical empathy into business and everyday life Fight Less, Win More: Chris Voss's newest book, adapting those same skills for personal relationships Annette Mullin on LinkedIn Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show. Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here. Ready to find your own voice on stage? Dana's a big fan of Mic Drop Academy, a public speaking and group coaching program built for women. Watch the free webinar, join a workshop, or dive into the bootcamp to build the confidence to speak up and be heard.

First aired August 16, 2026 For over a decade, Dave Mowry couldn't get out of bed, couldn't shower, and couldn't walk to his own mailbox without waiting until dark so a neighbor wouldn't catch the look in his eyes. In 1994, a psychotic break sent the successful businessman and family man into a depression so deep it cost him his house, his career, and 14 years he calls his "lost years." He slept in his clothes for months at a time. At parties, he'd stand against the wall and pray no one came over to talk to him. Then, at his wife's urging, he walked into a stand-up comedy class for people living with mental illness, and by the second session, something shifted: he started looking for the joke inside the pain. Dave is now a bestselling author, a blogger with over a million reads, a peer support specialist, and, in his own words, "a comic who shatters stigma one joke at a time." We get into what clinical depression actually feels like from the inside, why his wife is the true hero of his story, how a ten-week comedy class became group therapy in disguise, the gentle suicide joke that helped save a young man's life, and why people in the mental health field need to stop trying to "protect" the very people they're meant to be supporting. Watch this episode In this episode Why a 1994 psychotic break sent a successful businessman into 14 "lost years" of homelessness and depression What clinical depression actually feels like: the showers he couldn't take, the mailbox trips timed for after dark, and the panic attacks that came out of nowhere Why "just do something small," like sitting in a different chair, was enough to keep Dave from getting stuck in hopelessness What family members need to understand about mental illness, and how Dave's wife became "the hero of his story" How a NAMI stand-up comedy class turned Dave's pain into laugh-out-loud jokes, and eventually a sold-out show at Helium Comedy Club Dave's gentle suicide joke, why it works, and the night it helped save a young man's life Why people in the helping professions need to stop trying to "save" people with mental illness and start supporting them instead Timestamps (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet comic and mental health advocate Dave Mowry (01:16) The 1994 psychotic break, and the 14 "lost years" that followed (03:56) What clinical depression actually feels like: showers, blending into the wall, panic attacks (07:10) The exhausting weight of "just getting out of bed" (08:41) Don't get stuck: the small, deliberate choices that kept hope alive (10:15) What family members need to understand: it's not a moral failing (11:26) Dave's wife, the true hero of his story (14:34) Finding NAMI's stand-up comedy class, and the moment humor clicked (17:59) Selling out Helium Comedy Club, and becoming "a thing" (19:51) Blogging, "OMG, that's me," and shattering stigma one joke at a time (25:32) Teaching comedy: the setup, the punchline, and getting students to open up (26:10) Dave's gentle suicide joke, and the night it helped save a life (32:42) Boundaries, mania, and giving himself permission to say no (37:25) Where to find Dave, his books, and how to reach him About Dave Mowry Dave Mowry is a bestselling author, blogger, and stand-up comic who shatters stigma one joke at a time. After a 1994 psychotic break led to 14 "lost years" of severe depression, homelessness, and hospitalization, Dave found his way back through NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and a stand-up comedy class for people living with mental illness. He went on to sell out Portland's Helium Comedy Club, teach comedy classes to people living with mental illness, and become a peer support specialist. He's the author of OMG, That's Me! and Healing with Humor, and his blog for bphope.com has been read over a million times. Learn more and get in touch at Dave's website, or reach him directly at [email protected]. Favorite quotes "It's not a moral failing. It's a medical condition." —Dave Mowry "Afterwards, I called my wife for help. She said, 'There are more pills under the sink.'" —Dave Mowry, on the gentle suicide joke that's helped save lives "We don't need to be saved. Support us and all that, but don't try to save us. We don't need it." —Dave Mowry Resources mentioned Dave's website: home to his books and a contact form OMG, That's Me!: Dave's bestselling book on what it's really like to live with a mental illness, available on Amazon and Kindle Healing with Humor: Dave's newest book, telling the story of six comedy-class students and their transformation NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness): the organization that connected Dave to the comedy class that changed his life Helium Comedy Club (Portland): where Dave's class sold out a 185-seat show Subscribe & connect If this episode gave you something to sit with,

In this episode, Dana is joined by Kurt Bush, a trauma-informed coach who helps leaders move from imposter syndrome to authentic confidence. Kurt shares his own journey with imposter syndrome, from feeling like a fraud in corporate leadership meetings to realizing his true calling. He explains that to make a change, the pain of staying the same must become greater than the pain of changing, a threshold many of us fear crossing. Kurt introduces the ERT (Encounter + Reflection = Transformation) framework, a practical approach to help you get unstuck. He reveals why the first step to moving forward is often learning to "start stopping" the things that drain your energy, allowing you to create a life that is truly aligned with who you are.  Kurt's Website Kurt's Linkedin ------------- Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here: Book Dana for your next speaking event or workshop