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Welcome to Form & Structure, a podcast exploring the intersection of policy, technology, and financial innovation.
Hosted by Patrick Murck, Founder and CEO of Surus, this series delves into the most pressing issues shaping the future of digital finance. Form & Structure is presented by Surus, an institutional-grade, regulated asset management and custody platform that enables builders and investors to engage in the on-chain economy.
Hosted by Patrick Murck, Founder and CEO of Surus, this series delves into the most pressing issues shaping the future of digital finance. Form & Structure is presented by Surus, an institutional-grade, regulated asset management and custody platform that enables builders and investors to engage in the on-chain economy.
35 Episodes
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Greg Xethalis, Karen Ubell, and Sheila Warren join Patrick Murck to debate the Clarity Act blowup, crypto market structure legislation strategy, and whether there's still a window to pass comprehensive crypto legislation this year or if the industry needs to modularize and pass what it can.
Financial regulation is failing to keep pace with innovation and the results are catastrophic. The UN estimates that less than 1% of financial crime gets caught globally, despite banks spending tens of billions annually on AML compliance. In this episode, Surus CEO Patrick Murck sits down with Jo Ann Barefoot, former Deputy Comptroller of the Currency and CEO of the Alliance for Innovative Regulation, to explore why outdated regulatory technology is the bottleneck preventing both effective crime detection and financial innovation. Featuring Jo Ann Barefoot's decades of experience helping regulators adapt to technological change, from FinTech waves to crypto to AI transformation. Relevant for: Crypto builders, DeFi teams, compliance professionals, RegTech innovators, stablecoin issuers, tokenized asset platforms, financial services leaders, policy experts.
U.S. policymakers continue to wrestle with how to regulate decentralized finance, stablecoins, and the broader crypto ecosystem. But as our guests Rebecca Rettig and Mike Mosier argue, the central challenge has never been "decentralization." Instead, the real regulatory question is who has independent control over other people's value.
In this monthly policy roundtable, Patrick Murck is joined by Greg Xethalis (General Counsel, Multicoin Capital) and Karen Ubell (Partner, Goodwin) to break down the urgent push for crypto market structure legislation before midterms. They discuss Mike Selig's nomination to chair the CFTC and what his crypto expertise means for the agency's expansion into spot markets. They examine whether Congress should rush legislation or take time to get it right, what the Binance listing terms leak reveals about US regulatory arbitrage, and why moving from 54 state licenses to federal oversight matters for competitiveness.
Protocol Labs' Juan Benet (Founder & CEO) and Diana Stern (Deputy General Counsel) join Patrick Murck on this week's episode. They discuss launching the PL 'alignment asset' token as a novel way to share incentives across Protocol Labs' network of over 700 companies.
Patrick Murck hosts David Tse (Co-Founder of Babylon Labs co-founder and Stanford professor) dive into how Babylon attracted nearly $7 billion in Bitcoin staking and explore their new trustless Bitcoin vaults that activate dormant Bitcoin assets for productive use in DeFi.
In this episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck sits down with Pete Rizzo, The Bitcoin Historian and host of the Supply Shock podcast, for a wide-ranging conversation about Bitcoin's evolution and what Pete calls its "new epoch.".
In our Monthly Bitcoin Series episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck sits down with Neha Narula (Director, MIT Digital Currency Initiative) and Ethan Heilman (Research Engineer, Cloudflare) to discuss Roman Storm verdict's impact on privacy tech, Bitcoins fee market breakdown, and the "one sat per vbyte" policy debate.
White House Crypto Council Executive Director Bo Hines joins Patrick Murck to break down the administration's comprehensive strategy to make America the crypto capital of the world. Bo discusses the President's Working Group Digital Assets Report, Bitcoin Strategic Reserve implementation, and the timeline to pass the Clarity Act by October 2025. Then, Dan Spuller (EVP Industry Affairs, Blockchain Association) dives into North Carolina's emergence as a crypto hub, state-level competition for digital asset infrastructure, and how regulatory clarity is driving companies back to the United States.
Patrick Murck and Professor Carla Reyes (SMU Law) discuss how the 2022 UCC amendments created "controllable electronic records" to finally align commercial law with crypto lending practices. They explore whether Bitcoin's UTXO system makes security interests practically impossible to enforce, why Florida's attempt to ban CBDCs through state law doesn't actually work, and how the GENIUS Act might prevent stablecoin issuers from paying bankruptcy costs.
Patrick Murck hosts Greg Xethalis (General Counsel at MultiCoin Capital) and Karen Ubell (Partner at Goodwin) for our monthly Policy & Regulatory Roundtable to discuss the historic signing of the GENIUS Act, what it means for consumer protection, and the path forward for comprehensive market structure reform.
Johnny Reinsch, Executive Director of the Tokenized Asset Coalition, joins Patrick Murck to discuss why TAC is shifting from policy advocacy to solving technical infrastructure challenges, how stablecoins are becoming the gateway to broader tokenization, and why his mantra remains "not everything should be tokenized." The conversation explores Johnny's evolution from Bitcoin maximalist to tokenization realist, offering candid insights on what actually needs fixing in the industry.
As crypto treasury strategies expand beyond Bitcoin, a new wave of companies is emerging to capitalize on this trend. But which ones will survive market cycles? In this episode, host Patrick Murck explores this question with Joseph Onorati and Parker White, co-founders of DeFi Development Corporation, the first publicly traded Solana Treasury Company, who bring multi-cycle crypto experience dating back to 2013.
Host Patrick Murck is joined by Greg Xethalis (General Counsel at Multicoin Capital), Drew Hinkes (Partner at Winston & Strawn, and Adjunct Professor at NYU School of Law & Stern School of Business), and Karen Ubell (Partner at Goodwin Procter) to break down the Senate's 68-30 passage of the GENIUS Act—the first productive crypto legislation heading to a U.S. president's desk—and what it means for stablecoins, institutional adoption, and the future of digital dollars.
In this episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck invites David Taylor (Co-founder & CEO of Etherfuse) on to discuss how Etherfuse is bringing sovereign debt onchain, solving cross-border payment inefficiencies, and why they chose Surus as their custody partner.
In this episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck sits down with three Bitcoin network experts – Neha Narula (Director, MIT Digital Currency Initiative), Ethan Heilman (Research Engineer, Cloudflare), and Tadge Dryja (Bitcoin Core developer and Lightning Network co-inventor) – to discuss recent debates around the Bitcoin network including user activated soft forks, op return transactions, the security budget debate, and the necessity of protocol specialization.
In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Adam Silver, co-founder and CEO of Plural Energy, to discuss how tokenization is transforming renewable energy investment and bridging traditional finance with DeFi innovation. After taking the unconventional path of studying for his Series 7 exam while building his company, Silver shares his vision for creating what he calls the "financial operating system for the base layer of the economy" and why he believes bringing real assets on-chain is key to unlocking capital flows into the energy transition.
In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Kristin Smith, President of the Solana Policy Institute and former CEO of Blockchain Association, to discuss crypto's regulatory evolution and the path forward. After seven years leading industry advocacy efforts, Smith shares insights on how crypto can achieve lasting policy results despite political challenges and shifts.
In this episode, Patrick Murck chats with Nick Ducoff, Head of Institutional Growth at the Solana Foundation. Nick unpacks how the Solana ecosystem scaled from $300 million to over $10 billion in TVL and discusses the influence of the rise of institutional adoption and how tokenized assets, streaming payments, and stablecoins are creating the foundation for the next wave of onchain finance.
In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Punia, Co-Founder of Nashpoint, to explore why today's DeFi ecosystem is dominated by hedge funds and crypto whales —and what it will take to return to crypto's original principals of building open, accessible financial infrastructure. The conversation dives into how DeFi has drifted toward mimicking TradFi, the limitations of current liquidity models, and how sovereign debt tokens and diversified capital bases could help reshape the onchain economy for broader participation.
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