On Boards Podcast

In this episode of On Boards, hosts Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh speak with Betsy Atkins, a three-time CEO, serial entrepreneur, and one of the most experienced public company directors in the U.S., having served on more than 38 public boards and through 17 IPOs. Betsy explains why a board stuck in an oversight mindset can never be a competitive asset, and what it actually takes for directors to lean into growth and innovation: mentoring the CEO, becoming a thought partner, opening doors, and thinking like an owner. She makes the case that the attributes that matter most in a director today are being active, brave, curious, and decisive – and offers practical questions for finding those qualities in a candidate. The conversation also explores the difference between a high-performing board and a change-adaptive one, drawing on Betsy's experience as lead director when an activist arrived, and closes with a hard look at AI governance – why boards should treat AI agents as an insider threat, tier their risk, and make sure the guardrails are actually being enforced. Key Takeaways A board becomes a competitive advantage by leaning into growth, not just oversight Reviewing last quarter and the annual plan is the minimum; companies thrive or melt depending on whether they stay relevant Directors should push the CEO and leadership team to be change adaptive – what's new, where the market is going, who the unexpected interlopers are In practice this means mentoring the CEO, connecting them with other relevant CEOs, becoming a thought partner on partnering ecosystems, and opening doors at the right level when invited Showing up four times a year is a transaction, not a relationship Reading the board package and attending meetings is table stakes, not the job Directors need to invest in the relationship with the CEO – meeting early, meeting outside the boardroom – before their help will be welcomed The highest standard is thinking like an owner: if I had to solve this, how would I go about it? Hire for resume reality, not resume match Board search can be a loss leader for search firms, which creates an incentive to place candidates who look perfect on paper rather than those who deliver value A functional expert from a large-cap company may not bring the generalist, entrepreneurial perspective a board needs The four attributes to seek: active (100% engaged), brave (courage to have meaningful dialogue), curious (open to new models and tools), and decisive (able to act with incomplete information) To test for courage, ask candidates about the hard things they've done, when they took a principled position against the group, and who they admire as courageous You're hiring for the bad times Everybody looks like a genius on a rising tide; equivocating and stalling are decisions too Duty of care means getting objective outside information, but the board is there to exercise business judgment – often with incomplete information Large-company executives are skilled at moving big organizations incrementally, which is the opposite of the personal decisiveness a board crisis demands A high-performing board is not the same as a change-adaptive board High-performing boards have excellent processes for the status quo; change-adaptive boards can absorb and act on something new At HD Supply, Betsy replaced a board dinner with a learning session on digital transformation, bringing in three outside firms so the board could build shared understanding together That shared learning "wove the fabric" that let the board process an activist event as a cohered team Change adaptiveness is a muscle that is often dormant in senior leaders and has to be deliberately created – or recruited for Engage with activists rather than refuse them Activists are shareholders, and there's a wide continuum between confrontational and constructive ones The initial "refusenik" reaction rarely works; the board should ask whether the activist might have a valuable idea and what it would cost to listen Who got you here is not who's going to get you there – the rate of change and the number of macro trends today are different from a decade ago and board composition needs to change accordingly AI governance is the next big thing boards are not ready for Use the cybersecurity playbook boards already know: zero trust, with AI viewed as an insider threat vulnerability Every agent needs a unique cryptographic identity and a human owner in the operating line who is accountable for its purpose and permissions Boards should ask management to tier agent risk: low (read-only), medium (reversible, bounded actions), high (irreversible or material actions such as payments, deleting databases, or exposing customer data) A policy on paper is not enough – someone has to verify there are logs and that incidents are tracked, algorithms are monitored for drift, and there is a way to disable an agent Technology expertise on the board is now a must-have, not a nice-to-have – broad and conceptual, not narrowly functional Board composition and tenure have to keep pace Boards should review their composition regularly, and duration of service probably has to change Companies are less likely to fail from cooked books than from irrelevance – and the glide path is much shorter than it used to be Quotes "It's very easy for boards to be in an oversight mindset. But companies thrive or they melt if they're relevant." "Coming [attending board meetings] four times a year is a transaction, not really a relationship." "Perfect on paper is not always perfect in reality. Perfect on paper is the difference between resume and reality." "You're hiring for the bad times. Everybody goes up with the rising tide." "You have to be decisive because equivocating is a decision. Stalling is a decision. Time is not your friend if there's something really wrong." "Who got you here is not who's gonna get you there." "AI should be viewed as an insider threat vulnerability. Every single agent needs to have a cryptographic, unique identity, and a human owner who's responsible for what is its purpose." "Blockbuster had a decade before Netflix took it out. I don't think you have two years anymore." Links betsyatkins.com Be Board Ready: The Secrets to Landing a Board Seat and Being a Great Director Behind Boardroom Doors: Lessons of a Corporate Director Guest Bio Betsy Atkins is a three-time CEO and serial entrepreneur who has co-founded enterprise software companies in the energy, healthcare, and software industries. She has scaled companies through hypergrowth, helped shape the future of digitization, and led companies to successful IPOs and acquisitions. Since 1994 she has been CEO of Baja Corporation, an independent venture capital firm focused on technology, renewable energy, and life sciences. Betsy has served on more than 38 public company boards and has been through 17 IPOs, with board experience spanning technology, financial services, healthcare, retail, automotive, manufacturing, and logistics. She was a co-founder of Ascend Communications, acquired by Lucent, and CEO of Clear Standards, acquired by SAP. She is a frequent corporate governance commentator and the author of two books, Be Board Ready and Behind Boardroom Doors.  

In this episode of On Boards, Jonathan Foster joins hosts Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh to discuss what makes a board effective in today's evolving governance landscape. Jonathan is the founder and managing partner of Current Capitals Partners.  Drawing from his experience serving on more than 50 boards, Jonathan's book, On Board: The Modern Playbook for Corporate Governance, shares lessons on board evaluations, activist thinking, shareholder accountability, and why the best directors listen first.  The conversation also explores how boards should approach CEO activism, director offboarding, and the growing influence of AI. Foster argues that directors must actively educate themselves on emerging technologies while maintaining focus on thoughtful decision-making and long-term value creation. Key takeaways Effective directors prioritize listening Strong directors listen before speaking in order to understand the dynamics of the boardroom. Asking thoughtful questions is  more effective than dominating a discussion Credibility is built through observation, preparation, and collaboration – but saying what you think.  Governance history shapes modern board responsibilities Landmark governance cases provide the foundation for today's fiduciary standards Understanding the origins of duty of care and duty of loyalty helps directors make better decisions  Governance principles become more meaningful when directors understand the stories behind them Honest evaluations are critical to strong boards Boards should directly address underperformance rather than avoid difficult conversations Annual evaluations are more valuable than arbitrary term limits If a director is not improving, there should be a respectful and honest process to offboard them  Boards should proactively think like activists Directors should regularly evaluate the company from an outside shareholder perspective Boards can identify strategic weaknesses earlier by considering activist viewpoints internally Jonathan emphasizes balancing short-term pressure with long-term shareholder value creation AI oversight begins with education Directors must actively learn about AI before they can effectively oversee it AI should support board preparation, not replace board judgment and be used in discussions Boards should focus on AI strategy, ethics, governance, and implementation questions Quotes " If you think you're the smartest person in the room, you're probably wrong. But even if you are, every director has just one vote, so you need to develop a consensus to get things done.  " My objective is to not say anything for the first two meetings. I'm just listening; you learn a lot and gain  credibility by just listening first." " I try to make every decision I make as a director, as if my family had 100% of its money in that one company's stock." " I don't want AI in the boardroom — yet. A boardroom is a  place to consider and have conversations and make decisions, not be overwhelmed by data." Links On Board: The Modern Playbook for Corporate Governance jonathanffoster.com Guest Bio Jonathan F. Foster is the founder and a managing director of Current Capital Partners LLC, a mergers and acquisitions advisory, corporate management services and private equity investing firm. Jon spent a decade at Lazard, primarily focused on mergers and acquisitions advisory work, ultimately as a managing director. He has been on more than 50 boards, including Fortune 500 companies, private companies and companies involved in restructurings. Foster has served as chair, lead director and on the three major board committees as well as special, transaction and CEO succession committees. He has been chair of two Fortune 500 Audit committees. He has also been an expert witness in corporate litigation for some 60 cases. With decades of experience, Foster has written, spoken and been quoted frequently about governance and finance topics and has guest lectured at various universities. Jon lives in New York City with his wife and goldendoodle; he has two adult children.    

In this episode, Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh welcome Mark Hamill, CEO of The Naked Headhunter and co-founder of the Virtual Advisory Board (VAB).  Mark shares the origin story of VAB from its start during the COVID-19 pandemic and how it scaled into a global network of over 1,300 members spanning 4,000 boards. The conversation dives into the power of peer-to-peer networks, the mechanics of building effective boards, and the tangible ROI that strong boards can deliver. They also unpack the realities of board recruitment, what it takes to land a first board seat, and why clarity of expertise and network strength are more important than ever. Mark offers a grounded perspective on the future of board service, emphasizing experience, diversity of thought, and the growing demand for board members who have "walked the walk." Key takeaways Boards deliver outsized ROI when done right Board investment is relatively small compared to impact Experienced board members accelerate growth, decision making and access A small, structured board can shift a company's trajectory by turning big picture ambitions into executable strategy Your first board seat is almost always the hardest to secure Most board roles come through networks, not formal channels Once you secure your first board seat, credibility compounds quickly and future opportunities will tend to follow Mark highlights the importance of understanding yourself and your unique leadership experiences before connecting with networks Community and peer learning drive board success The Virtual Advisory Board thrives on member led engagement and shared experiences The group creates a trustworthy environment for honest conversions where leaders can discuss difficult and high pressure decisions  Members bring live challenges and get immediate input from peers who've faced similar situations Board composition is about complementary experience Strong boards blend industry expertise, scaling experience, and global perspective Diversity of experience leads to better outcomes The most effective boards are intentionally built around the company's specific stage and challenges, rather than prestige or status Quotes: "The strength of your network really becomes 80% of the reason how your next role will be sourced." "We're (VAB) not going to tell you what to do, but we can certainly share experiences of how other people have dealt with it." " Where you are in your board journey, there'll be different tracks internally that you can kind of take depending on where you are in your voyage." Links The Naked Headhunter Virtual Advisory Board Bio Mark is the CEO and founder of Naked Headhunter and has been involved in executive search since 1999. During his career he has placed over 500 executives and he works across all practice groups. Mark began his career at Heineken; serving the company in a variety of commercial roles both in Ireland and in Central Europe. In 1999, he himself was "headhunted" for a job in the executive search sector and has never looked back.    

In this episode of On Boards, hosts Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh speak with Rod Adkins, board chairman, former IBM executive, and author of Curiosity Redefines the Limits. Rod shares insights from nearly 25 years of board experience, focusing on how directors can effectively oversee risk in an era of rapid technological disruption. The conversation explores how boards are evolving their governance structures to address increasingly complex risks tied to technology, cybersecurity, and artificial intelligence.  Rod explains why traditional audit committees are often no longer sufficient on their own and, as a result, many organizations are forming dedicated risk and technology committees to better manage forward-looking challenges. A major focus of the discussion is AI as a transformative opportunity and a significant threat. Rod frames the present day as a new innovation cycle, emphasizing that boards must strike a careful balance between leveraging AI for competitive advantage and defending against AI-enabled risks.  Key Takeaways Governance must always adapt to technology and rises Boards are moving beyond audit committees toward dedicated risk oversight teams to better address cybersecurity, infrastructure and innovation. Effective governance requires a forward mindset and close alignment with management on navigating change AI requires a balance of opportunity and protection AI can drive efficiency, innovation, and competitive advantage, but also introduces risks like cyber threats and trust challenges Boards must ensure organizations are both leveraging AI and protecting against its misuse "AI vs. AI" As threats become more sophisticated, companies must use AI-powered defenses to protect systems and data Maintaining trust and security will be a core board-level responsibility Curiosity drives better leadership  The best directors ask thoughtful, strategic questions, curiosity helps leaders anticipate change, challenge assumptions, and improve decision-making Quotes  "We're just at the beginning, and we're almost out of breath already in terms of how fast [AI] is moving and how much we see in terms of capabilities and disruption."  "People that adapt to unknown situations and who productively challenge the status quo, have a curiosity or a competitive advantage for them in life and in their careers" "You don't always have to have the answer, but you need to figure out how to ask the right set of questions." Links https://rodneyadkins.com/book/ Curiosity Redefines the Limits: Advantages Gained from Life, the Workplace, and the Boardroom Forbes articles Guest Bio Rodney Adkins (Rod) has been Chairman of Avnet, Inc., one of the world's largest distributors of electronic components and technology solutions, since 2018. He is also the author of Curiosity Redefines the Limits, a leadership book that explores how curiosity can serve as a powerful competitive advantage in driving innovation, leadership effectiveness, and career growth.  In addition, he is a Partner at 3RAM Group LLC, a privately held company specializing in capital investments, business consulting, and property management. Previously, Mr. Adkins was Senior Vice President of IBM, serving in that position from 2007 until 2014. Over his 33-year career with IBM, Mr. Adkins has held several operational and executive management roles spanning strategy, technology, systems, and supply chain. Mr. Adkins' work has spanned the world of technology and computing. He has been a leading innovator in solutions ranging from mobile devices to the world's largest supercomputers. His significant contributions include helping to advance the Personal Computer industry, leading IBM's POWER business to become the market leader in the UNIX market, and pioneering what became IBM's portfolio of Internet of Things (IoT) solutions. Mr. Adkins was inducted into the National Academy of Engineering (NAE) in 2005, one of the highest honors in the engineering profession. His life story is archived in Wikipedia and The History Makers. He was inducted into the Miami Jackson High School Hall of Fame in 2018, the Miami Dade County Public Schools Alumni Hall of Fame in 2022, and the Georgia Tech Engineering Hall of Fame in 2024. The Wall Street Journal named Mr. Adkins among the top 100 most influential and effective corporate directors in 2025. He has been awarded honorary doctoral degrees from Georgia Tech and the University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC). Mr. Adkins serves on the board of directors for United Parcel Service (UPS), WW Grainger, and Avnet. He is a member of the Executive Leadership Council (ELC) and a trustee of the Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech) and Rollins College. Mr. Adkins also serves on the Adrienne Arsht Center Trust Board, the Overtown Youth Center (OYC) Board, and the Community-Police Relations Foundation Board.   

In this episode of On Boards, hosts Joe Ayoub and Raza Shaikh speak with Tina Larsson, a former Wall Street analyst, co-founder of The Folsom Group, and author of Living The High Life. Tina works with co-op, condo, and other HOA boards to improve governance to reduce costs, manage major building projects and oversee their shared residence effectively.   Tina shares how she and her husband became involved in board governance after discovering that their New York City co-op board was poorly managed and incurring significant unnecessary expenses. After organizing their co-op neighbors and electing a new board majority, they introduced stronger governance practices to their board and saved their building substantial money in very short order. The conversation explores the governance challenges faced by residential boards, which are usually run by volunteers responsible for complex decisions. Tina shares how boards can improve oversight, manage projects more effectively and shift from reactive decision-making to a more proactive approach to governing their communities. Key takeaways Residential boards face complex governance responsibilities Volunteer board members are responsible for major operational decisions involving buildings, infrastructure, vendors, and regulation Many board members take on these responsibilities without formal training or governance guidance  Financial oversight can reveal significant opportunities for savings Benchmarking operating expenses against comparable buildings can uncover areas of overspending Strategic vendor negotiations and cost reviews can reduce operating expenses by 5–10% in many buildings Effective governance requires proactive decision-making Boards that operate reactively often wait until problems become emergencies before acting Long-term planning helps communities address repairs, projects and maintenance before they become crises Establish clear roles and leveraging community engagement Governance improves when boards focus on oversight and strategy rather than trying to manage every operational detail  Residents who want change must often participate directly by joining the board Building relationships with neighbors and encouraging qualified owners to run for board positions improves decision-making "Living the High Life" Tina's book is a guide and blueprint on how to get involved in the governance of your co-op, and condos or HOA board and how to be an effective board member Quotes " The only way that you can get a say in your community is by running for the board and it talks about skills; good skills, best skills, the elevator skills, and what you are passionate about." "[An HOA, co-op, or condo board] is acting as a miniature government. They are governing the community." "If you are on the board of a residential building… you have to try to manage being on the board and at the same time, you have to handle all shareholders' or owners' concerns." " The only effective way to have a say in your living community is by being on the board." Links The Folson Group Living the High Life: How Smart Co-op and Condo Owners Protect Themselves and Their Investment Guest Bio Tina Larsson and her husband helped her own co-op save substantial money through good governance, after which they formed The Folson Group. They support NYC co-op and condo boards with strategic advice, project management, cost reduction, and help them find a property manager that fits their needs. She is the author of Living the High Life, frequent podcast guest and speaker, and holds a LEED Green Associate designation. Tina is on a mission to educate and support NYC condo and co-op boards to help optimize their living community.