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The Jay & Tony Show Show - Vertically Challenged
Two partners. One podcast. Zero patience for stale TV.
Hollywood talks a big game about "disruption," but the real shift is happening overseas, where short-form dramas, aka Verticals, aka Micro Dramas, are pulling in billions of eyeballs. These snack-sized soap operas are addictive, unstoppable, and reshaping how stories are told.
We're digging into why Verticals are both Hollywood's blind spot and its golden ticket, what creators and execs need to understand fast, and why the next generation of creators is building a whole new playbook.
Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss
TikTok: @vertically_challe5
YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss
The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Two partners. One podcast. Zero patience for stale TV.
Hollywood talks a big game about "disruption," but the real shift is happening overseas, where short-form dramas, aka Verticals, aka Micro Dramas, are pulling in billions of eyeballs. These snack-sized soap operas are addictive, unstoppable, and reshaping how stories are told.
We're digging into why Verticals are both Hollywood's blind spot and its golden ticket, what creators and execs need to understand fast, and why the next generation of creators is building a whole new playbook.
Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss
TikTok: @vertically_challe5
YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss
The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
27 Episodes
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In this episode, Jay and Tony explore the secret sauce behind vertical micro-drama paywalls. They break down the "open loop" itch, the perfectly timed wait, WHAT?, and why people will happily unlock more episodes just to get their nervous system back under warranty. If you've ever said, "I'm not paying" and then immediately paid, then this is surely an episode for you. The guys dive deep into the psychology, and a little of the neuroscience, of why unresolved tension feels weirdly personal, how dopamine and anticipation do most of the heavy lifting, and why emotional resolution is basically the most profitable product on the internet right now. Watch one cliffhanger after this and you'll start seeing the strings being pulled… and laughing at how good the puppet show is. Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Jay and Tony go to City Hall… and accidentally catch democracy doing its weird little job. They break down what exactly the LA City Council just passed and how it could help vertical micro-dramas with tax rebates, easier permits, and fewer hoops for indie creators. So yeah, this matters. Then the episode digs into the pool-camera circus, the latest vertical hype, why "making it cinematic" might be the fastest way to lose an audience, and the real debate over exploitation vs idealism. If you're making verticals, selling verticas, or hate-watching verticals, hit play. Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Part 2 of Jay & Tony's chat with Isabel Drean gets brutally honest as she explains why so many award-winning writers faceplant in vertical while newcomers run laps around them. They break down the real mechanics of how cliffhangers actually work, why slow-burns collapse in this format, and how ego, elitism, and quiet contempt for female-driven audiences keep the industry stuck. Then it gets real, as they break down vertical money, survival, contracts, burnout, and why speed is now a creative skill. They tackle AI head-on too. Not as a boogeyman, but as a tool. Because refusing to adapt might be the fastest exit ramp out of the business. Website: https://isabeldrean.com Courses & resources for vertical training: https://21dayscreenplay.com Book: How to Write a Vertical Series in 10 Days https://books2read.com/verticals Social media (all platforms): @isabeldrean Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Jay and Tony sit down with screenwriter and vertical-storytelling juggernaut, Isabel Drean, to trace her weirdly perfect path from acting to entrepreneurship to writing hit scripts at record speed. Isabel breaks down why "tight boxes" (Christmas movies, vertical dramas, all of it) don't crush creativity, they force it to show up. They get into why tropes aren't the villain, how the first five seconds decide your fate, and why the smallest constraints demand the biggest swings. This one's about craft, discipline, and the uncomfortable truth that great storytelling doesn't just come from freedom. It comes from focus. Website: https://isabeldrean.com Courses & resources for vertical training: https://21dayscreenplay.com Book: How to Write a Vertical Series in 10 Days https://books2read.com/verticals Social media (all platforms): @isabeldrean Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In this episode, Jay and Tony tear into their inbox and answer listener questions, from whether Quibi would still faceplant in 2026 to exactly how many vertical dramas they've actually watched for research. They argue about AI replacing actors, the real downside of the vertical gold rush, and whether filming your breakup in portrait mode counts as "content" or just a cry for help. Along the way the get into what people consistently misunderstand about this format, why the same taboos keep printing money, and the very real ways this whole ecosystem could still go up in flames. Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In the second part of their conversation with Kasey Esser, Jay and Tony shift from origin story to industry reality. Kasey breaks down how careers actually move forward in the vertical space, from agents and leverage to boundaries, sustainability, and long-term strategy. They talk candidly about what creators get wrong once momentum hits and how visibility can become a liability. Protect your hours, your values, and your leverage… or the next "win" becomes your slowest leak. This episode is a blunt, inside look at what it really takes to build something that lasts. Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Breaking into vertical content isn't about talent, it's about understanding the game you're playing. In this conversation, Jay and Tony sit down with Kasey Esser to unpack what it really takes to survive and succeed in today's vertical game. Kasey shares hard-earned lessons from inside the industry, the misconceptions that derail creators early, and why so many smart people still get it wrong. From career paths to platform realities, this episode pulls back the curtain on how vertical storytelling actually works and not how people think it works. Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
AI is detonating, censorship is closing in, and creators are in the blast radius, like it or not. Jay and Tony get into the AI backlash and the freak-out over "fake." When it comes to AI is the U.S. is jogging while other countries are sprinting? They break down how censorship actually functions, which stories vanish without a sound, and which taboos travel. Who really holds the leash on creativity, and how much longer the vertical content Wild West stays wild? Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In Part 2, Wayne spills what actually happens when old-school writers crash into vertical-native creators, and why most of them trip over page one. He calls out the "false rules" platforms still worship, the toxic mindsets that kneecap newcomers, and the POV he swears is the only way to survive. Wayne also pulls stories from shooting in real disaster zones and how that chaos rewired the way he makes films and vertical series now. It's a must-listen for anyone who wants to break into this space without getting fed into the algorithm woodchipper Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
A project canceled the night before shooting? AI threatening everything? Wayne Ren reveals the chaos nobody else will talk about. In Part 1, Wayne takes Jay and Tony through his journey from YouTube kid to Hollywood filmmaker to head of content at Alta TV. He unpacks the strange, rule-changing world of Chinese censorship, the rise of vertical storytelling, and why American creators are already behind. Wayne also breaks down how GenAI is about to disrupt everything we think we know about short-form drama — creatively and financially. This is the episode that pulls back the curtain on where the industry is really heading. Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In this episode of Vertically Challenged, the guys sink their teeth into an Ankler article, "The Art of Hooking Audiences," featuring the execs behind micro-drama behemoth Drama Box. Jay and Tony dissect their four supposed commandments of vertical success, as only two emotionally stunted veterans of unscripted television can. From there, they give their hot takes on uncomfortable questions like… is the industry just cranking out emotional junk food with zero long-term worldbuilding? Will vertical dramas follow the trajectory of reality TV? And is "elevating the genre" actually just code for missing the point? Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Who the F&*k is watching these things? – Vertical micro drama Fan expert Jen Cooper spills the tea. Interview Part 2 Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Who the F&*k is watching these things? – Vertical micro drama Fan expert Jen Cooper spills the tea. Interview Part 1 Contact: jay@jayandtonyshow.com Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In this episode of The Jay & Tony Show, we poke at the breaking points of vertical micro-drama, where "innovation" tips into "exploitation." We cut through the hype to ask who's winning, who's paying, and where the ethics go when the algorithm wants tears on a deadline. It's candid, fast, a little unruly, and just provocative enough to change how you look at this multi-billion-dollar machine. Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Join Jay and Tony as they dig into the bizarre, booming ecosystem that's grown around vertical micro-dramas. Be prepared for a world where AI analytics, prop vending machines, and "emotion factories" somehow coexist. From micro-drama service hubs to algorithmic script doctors, they unpack the chaos, the innovation, and the sheer audacity of an industry inventing itself in real time. Tune in for a fast, funny, and occasionally terrifying look at the business of making stories one swipe at a time. Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In this episode of The Jay and Tony Show: Vertically Challenged, we break down the week's biggest buzz in the wild world of vertical micro dramas. We dig into he hits, the hype, and the new words we're all pretending we understand. From the rise of "romantasies" to the latest jargon infecting creative meetings ("Heat Farming" anyone?), Jay and Tony decode the shifting language of a business that reinvents itself every time says, "gold rush." It's a fast, funny tour through the headlines, hot takes, and hidden absurdities shaping the next phase of digital storytelling. It's part insider briefing, part group therapy for two creators trying to keep up. Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
This week, Jay and Tony unpack the chaos of hands-on, vertical micro-drama production. Sure, we all know its champagne ideas and tap-water budgets, but we torch bad pre-production, preach the gospel of shot lists, and explain why casting and wardrobe can save (or sink) your day. Expect war stories about crafty that actually matter, safety protocols that keep you shooting, and the weird little family that forms at 2 a.m. over stale granola bars. Let's dive into the unglam truth of vertical production. The fast, the scrappy, the collaborative… and of course, the addictive. Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
In Part 2, Jay and Tony are back with Timothy Oh, the unstoppable force behind Asia's vertical drama revolution. This round goes deeper, from the emotional storytelling that bridges tech, gaming, and music to the cultural codes shaping how global audiences connect. Tim breaks down what it really takes to make fast-paced content that still hits deep and why meaning matters just as much as metrics. They'll also tackle the rise of AI in creative industries, what's hype versus what's actually helping, and how creators can stay human in an algorithmic world. It's a sharp, funny, and insightful conversation that proves the future of entertainment isn't just faster, it's smarter. Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
Join Jay and Tony as they dive into the fast-rising world of vertical micro-dramas with Timothy Oh, the sharp-witted General Manager for Southeast Asia at Cole Group, and one of the few people who's actually turning short-form storytelling into serious business. Tim takes us inside the boom of micro-dramas across Asia, the art of making every second count, and what Western creators still don't get about the format. From his early days crafting documentaries to leading gaming teams and navigating a wild brush with the mafia in Taiwan, Tim's journey is proof that innovation usually starts where comfort ends. It's part masterclass, part war story, and all about the people shaping how we'll watch, feel, and monetize the next generation of stories. Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
We tackle America's cultural ADD, the false promises of AI storytelling, and why people always confuse trend-chasing with innovating. America loves turning guilty pleasures into art forms (comic books, reality TV) now maybe it's time for the rise of vertical micro-dramas. We break down how we got here, what AI has to do with it, and why Hollywood still can't admit it secretly loves trash. Vertical micro-dramas are being hyped as the next frontier, but they're already abused by AI, and soon to be under Hollywood's sweaty grip. We dig deeper into whether American producers can actually add value, or if creativity gets tossed out the window the minute someone mentions 'synergy.' Instagram: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss TikTok: @vertically_challe5 YouTube: @vertically_challenged_pod_jtss The Jay and Tony Show: www.jayandtonyshow.com
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