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Welcome to The Intangible Brand, where we explore the connection between employee experience and client experience, and the hidden forces that make brands stick. Each episode offers practical insights and inspiration for building a brand people are proud to work for — and eager to work with.
The Intangible Brand is brought to you by Cline and TOKY.
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19 Episodes
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Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Jennifer Sebranek of GBBN to explore what real differentiation looks like in architecture and professional services and why brand extends far beyond logos, taglines, and marketing campaigns. Jennifer shares how firms can create alignment around a clear core message, why consistency across teams matters more than clever positioning, and how marketers can show up as the voice of the client inside...
Watch on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Pamela Slim to explore what it really takes to scale an expert-led firm without diluting the client experience that made it successful in the first place. Pamela shares insights from her work advising founders and professional service leaders who want to grow into larger, more complex markets. As firms expand, positioning gets blurrier, operations get strained, and client expectations evolve. The tension is...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with George Ghneim, a veterinarian, restaurateur, and distiller, to explore what brand and experience look like in businesses where emotions run high and the work is deeply human. George shares lessons from veterinary medicine and hospitality, two fields where trust, empathy, and presence are not optional. We talk about how client experience is inseparable from employee experience, especially when t...
Watch on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Benjamin Sachwald, Senior Vice President of Acoustics, Noise, and Vibration at AKRF, to explore a dimension of employee experience that is often overlooked but deeply felt: sound. Benjamin helps unpack why acoustics is becoming a more visible and strategic part of workplace design, especially as organizations rethink offices, hybrid work, and what it means to create spaces people actually want to use. We ta...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Dr. Will Percy, Executive Vice President at TeamOptix and author of Slaying Zombies: Reimagining Workplace Engagement, about why so many engagement efforts feel busy but ineffective. Will introduces the idea of “engagement zombies” the outdated beliefs, metrics, and programs that continue to walk around organizations long after they have stopped helping anyone. We explore why happiness and engageme...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Susan Baier, founder of Audience Audit, to explore how professional service firms can build stronger brands by understanding what their audiences actually believe, not just who they are on paper. Susan explains why demographics and generic personas often fall short, and how attitudinal research helps firms sharpen their point of view, create more relevant thought leadership, and earn trust over...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode, we talk with Tate Fisher about what it really takes to design service experiences that serve customers, support employees, and work for the business. Tate draws on years of work with multi location and franchise brands to explain why service is always co created and why balance across those three stakeholders matters more than any single tactic. The conversation hits on how to build predictable systems without stripping out humanity, what frontli...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Brandon Coleman Jr., a brand strategist, speaker, and author who has spent five decades helping organizations understand what brand really is and how culture shapes it. Brandon shares the stories and lessons that shaped his philosophy, from early mentors who challenged him to define value, to the rebrand of his own family firm, to his favorite example of culture-powered consistency at Buc-ee’s. His...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and guest host Jill Davis sit down with Eddie Staley, Chief Innovation Officer, and Kristen Herndon, Director of Client Experience at WithersRavenel, an employee-owned engineering and consulting firm built around the idea that when employees think and act like owners, clients feel the difference. Eddie and Kristen share how WithersRavenel connects culture, innovation, and client experience to deliver measurable impac...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Darrell Grant, Chief Experience Officer at Hightower Wealth Advisors, a firm redefining what client experience looks like in the wealth management space. Darrell shares how intentional service design — what he calls a “butler mindset” — transforms everyday client interactions into moments of trust and care. He breaks down how small cues, like a prepared meeting room or a thoughtful follow-up, c...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Steven Gallo, Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency for professional services firms. Steve shares how PR can be more than an external visibility tool — it can also be a powerful driver of internal culture and employee engagement. Drawing on his work with architecture, engineering, and construction firms, Steve explains how to connect internal wins to e...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Eric Anest, Senior Vice President of Marketing and Communications at Salas O’Brien, a rapidly growing engineering and consulting firm. Eric shares his perspective on the connection between employee experience and client experience — and why brand work must start inside the organization. Drawing on his experience leading multiple mergers, a major rebrand, and the ongoing work of unifying thousan...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry welcomes Dave Minifie, a seasoned leader known for bringing clarity to the relationship between purpose, leadership, and organizational culture. Dave shares his perspective on why understanding the “why” (whether in personal life, family, or within an organization) is essential to achieving long-term success. He explores how leaders can create environments that empower people to reach their full potential, while also...
Watch this episode on YouTube Are you measuring client experience (CX) in a way that actually reflects reality, or just relying on outdated metrics? In this episode, Tim Asimos, Head of Growth at Client Savvy, A ClearlyRated Company, explores what professional service firms get wrong about CX and how to build a client-centric culture that actually drives growth. In this Episode How CX is gaining traction across AEC, especially through culture and leadership. (01:00)The difference between CX a...
Watch this episode on YouTube How do you lead a total brand transformation without losing what makes your firm… your firm? In this episode, Jeffrey Taub, FSMPS, CPSM, and SVP of Corporate Marketing at AKRF, shares the inside story of rebranding a legacy company. From internal alignment to messaging strategy, Jeff walks us through the belief systems and processes that enabled a values-driven rebrand. In this Episode Leading a full rebrand of AKRF to unify messaging and identity. (01:00)Using i...
Watch this episode on YouTube What’s the difference between a logo and a brand? In this episode, The Intangible Brand co-host Jerry Gennaria, President of TOKY, unpacks nearly 30 years of helping firms uncover and articulate their true brand identity. In this Episode Jerry’s path from aspiring artist and self-taught designer to brand strategist. (01:00)How brand evolved from visual identity to holistic experience. (05:00)Why “brand is people” across industries and firm types. (09:00)The exper...
Watch this episode on YouTube Welcome to the premiere episode of The Intangible Brand—a podcast exploring how internal culture and employee experience shape the brands people trust, remember, and return to. We’re starting with co-host Carl Winstead, Partner and Chief Experience Officer at Cline Design Associates. With a background in architecture and a passion for experience design, Carl has dedicated his career to shaping not just spaces, but how people experience professional service firms ...
Watch this episode on YouTube In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and guest host Alec Gleason talk with Shayne De La Force, a marketing strategist and author of Strategic Entanglement, a book that borrows principles from quantum physics to rethink how brand and growth operate together. Shayne shares how global brands can close the gap between marketing and delivery, the cultural insights that inform his work, and why marketers must think like connectors — aligning teams, operations...
Watch this episode on YouTube. What happens when a brand refresh becomes a catalyst for cultural alignment, recruiting strength, and leadership clarity? In this episode of The Intangible Brand, hosts Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead speak with Lindsay Wilson, President and Interior Sector Leader at Corgan, and Elizabeth Pierce, Chief Marketing Officer at Corgan. Together, they share how one of the nation’s largest architecture and design firms transformed its brand from a visual update into a...
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