The Upstream Leader Podcast

Matt Granados, CEO of Life Pulse and author of Motivate the Unmotivated, joins Jeremy Clopton on Episode 114 of The Upstream Leader to make his case that most leaders can't motivate their teams for a simple reason: they don't know themselves well enough to know anyone else. His framework centers on identity, specifically the damage done when people tie who they are to what they do, and builds outward from there into a practical system for understanding what actually drives the individuals around you. It's less about management technique and more about honest self-examination as a prerequisite for leading others. Matt covers enough ground to make you feel like the gap between fear-based and love-based motivation is less a philosophical distinction and more, a practical one. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

Most accounting firms claim to put people first, but Shish Cherian knows the difference between a hashtag and actual commitment. Shish talks to Jeremy Clopton on Episode 113 of The Upstream Leader about how as head of people operations at Donovan CPAs, one of the profession's standout firms, he's broken down what separates genuine "people first" culture from marketing speak. The distinction starts with alignment versus agreement—partners must be willing to sacrifice, not just nod along—and from there, it's about challenging directly while caring personally. Cutting through the "we're a family" platitudes plaguing the profession, Shish tackles the hard truths: HR can't manufacture generosity, servant leadership matters more than small talk, and your client base can either support, or undermine, everything you're trying to build. Remote work, clear systems, and clients who respect boundaries aren't perks, they're infrastructure, and this conversation reveals what actually makes people want to build careers at a firm. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

Alexia Pappas moved to Tampa with no job lined up, interviewed at ten firms, and nearly took a waitressing gig before finding the right fit. On Episode 112 of The Upstream Leader, she also tells Jeremy Clopton that she accepted a position in a department she had zero experience and no real interest in because the people felt right. That decision launched a decade-long career at the same firm. Alexia's path wasn't linear, starting in CAS despite wanting tax, discovering she knew "absolutely nothing" about foundational accounting, and spending years proving herself before making the switch. But that detour became her advantage, giving her a particularly deep understanding of her clients' operations. Now, as she eyes partnership, Alexia's focus has shifted from climbing to lifting. She talks about succession planning not as a threat but as freedom, about measuring success by fulfillment rather than just income, and about building a career where showing up excited matters as much as the work itself. Ten years in, she's still at the same firm, and for her, that's exactly the point. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

When Jeremy Jones stepped into the CEO role at Frazier & Deeter, he inherited not just a legacy, but a crossroads. The firm, steeped in tradition and guided by the founders' ongoing presence, faced a pivotal decision: pursue private equity investment or maintain the status quo. He joins Jeremy Clopton on Episode 111 of The Upstream Leader and explains how, alongside his leadership team, he navigated a landscape transformed by industry peers embracing new models. Their journey was marked by candid conversations, cultural soul-searching, and a deliberate shift in governance and compensation in order to prepare the firm for change before committing to it. Ultimately, a partnership emerged not from financial calculus, but from a shared vision for people-first growth. Whether or not your firm is currently or will ever consider going the private equity route, this is information you want to understand as the accounting profession continues into the era of its latest "next big thing." Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

Caught in the endless loop of planning, reflecting, and waiting for the "right moment" to lead? Host Jeremy Clopton challenges the comfort of "becoming" and urges a shift into the discomfort and authenticity of being on Episode 110 of The Upstream Leader. Drawing from personal experience and the struggles of professionals everywhere, he exposes the trap of productive procrastination and the myth that more preparation will finally make us ready. Instead, he champions imperfect action, self-awareness, and the courage to step into the arena before feeling fully equipped. Leadership isn't a future destination but a present choice, forged in the messy, real-time work of showing up and making decisions while trying to learn what you think you need to know on the fly. Jeremy calls on all of us to stop delegating leadership to our future selves and start being the leaders we aspire to become – today. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

When Jason Blumer of Thriveal and Ian Vacin of Karbon set out to write Scale with Purpose, they didn't expect the journey to mirror the unpredictable path of entrepreneurship itself. On Episode 109 of The Upstream Leader, they recount the ups and downs that shaped their leadership philosophies, from early missteps and hard-won lessons to the realization that scaling a service-based firm is as much about self-awareness as it is about strategy. Jeremy probes the content of the book, diving into the messy realities of building teams, the myth of consensus, and the challenge of driving efficiency in a world where people, as Jeremy quotes, "crave the freedom to be inefficient." Importantly, this isn't just a how to manual, and the group reflects on why not every firm should, or even should want to, scale. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

Being lonely at the top is more than a cliché, it's a reality for many leaders. Jeremy Clopton sits down with Mark McFatridge, founder and CEO of Quaid, to explore the hidden challenges of leadership isolation and the power of community on Episode 108 of The Upstream Leader. Mark shares how "like-situated" circles can become a lifeline for CEOs and business owners navigating high-stakes decisions and personal struggles, as sources of trust, vulnerability, and radical candor. Mark goes through how to build authentic connections both inside and outside the workplace no matter your position within it. If your goal is to lead with more humanity and find support while doing so, you'll learn why true community is the antidote to isolation, and how you can redefine what it means to succeed as a leader. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

Jeremy Clopton sits down with Matt Tait, CEO of Decimal, on Episode 107 of The Upstream Leader for a refreshingly honest look at how personal health shapes leadership. Matt recounts the wake-up call that came not from a business crisis, but from his own kids questioning his athletic past, and rather than chasing quick fixes, he describes a slow, intentional shift: waking up earlier, building habits, and crafting a fitness routine that serves as a source of joy for him rather than an obligation. Yes, the reality of balancing work, family, self-care, employees' needs, and putting out fires is messy and unpredictable, but Matt's story is a reminder that leadership isn't about perfection or control. He's shown that it's possible to systematically make space for yourself while simultaneously showing up better for those who count on you. No matter where you are on your own self-care journey, you'll want to hear Matt's insights. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

The billable hour stands as both a fixture and a flashpoint in the accounting profession, shaping careers and firm cultures for generations. But talking about it actually be... enjoyable? On Episode 106 of The Upstream Leader, producer Justin Grant, himself a former lawyer, joins Jeremy to put the billable hour under the microscope—not to rehash old arguments, but to expose the real consequences of treating time as a commodity—and have fun doing it! Tracking every minute can obscure the true value of expertise, penalizing high performers, and this often ultimately reduces client relationships to transactions. But instead of dismissing the billable hour entirely, Jeremy reframes it as a tool for resource management: a way to balance workloads and set fair expectations. Reconsider what you measure and how you measure it, think about why that matters, and listen in for advice on how to set your firm on a path toward a more sustainable, people-focused future. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

"Marketing strategist for an accounting firm" was not on Kenzie Huling's "dream career bingo card," like most people. Raised by a father who built up his community scratch, she learned early on that stories—not numbers—bring people together. Without a marketing degree, Kenzie carved her own path, fueled by creative grit and a knack for seeing the soul behind spreadsheets, and host Jeremy Clopton follows Kenzie's journey from self-made creative to catalyst for connection, revealing the power of authenticity in a numbers-driven world on Episode 105 of The Upstream Leader. When Kenzie joined JHM CPAs, she found a blank canvas and set out to paint it with the real lives of staff and clients. Her approach, marked by listening deeply, celebrating personal moments, and throwing down the gauntlet of vulnerability, has transformed not just the firm's brand, but its culture. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

It's time to rethink the CEO role from the ground up! On Episode 104 of The Upstream Leader, Jeremy sits down with Chip Chaon, CEO of LattaHarris, about his unconventional path from outside the industry to the top seat. Together, they dig into the realities of shifting from a traditional partnership to a corporate governance model, the challenges of unwinding large client books, and the importance of aligning compensation with leadership—not just production. Facing the big challenge of a firm that needed modern ideas, Chip had to build trust among the partners, foster a culture of mentorship in order to keep the leadership pipeline full, and prioritize work-life balance for everyone in the firm. Many firms resist change until desperation hits, but Chip was able to ride the wave between inspiration and desperation to great effect. If you're curious about the future of firm management, this episode offers a rare, honest look behind the scenes. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

Jeremy Clopton welcomes Michael Bannon of CSG Partners for a deep dive into the world of ESOPs and their rising influence in the accounting profession on Episode 103 of The Upstream Leader. Michael unpacks how ESOPs work, why more firms are embracing employee ownership over private equity, and the real impact on firm culture, leadership, and long-term growth. From tax advantages and capital infusion to boosting retention and building a true ownership mentality, this episode explores the practical realities and transformative potential of ESOPs for accounting firms of all sizes. Packed with expert insights, candid stories, and actionable takeaways, it's a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of the profession. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

A very energizing episode 102 of The Upstream Leader sees host Jeremy Clopton sit down with Brett Hoogeveen, the co-founder of BetterCulture, to reveal how organizations can be transformed from the inside out. Brett introduces the "20 Tenets"—a set of straightforward, game-changing behaviors that empower every team member to drive positive change and elevate workplace culture. The most important underlying theme is that building a thriving culture isn't complicated—Brett and Jeremy break down how small, consistent actions can boost morale, foster growth, and make work better for everyone. Tune in for actionable insights and real-world examples that will help you and your team thrive. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

To kick off the second hundred episodes of The Upstream Leader, Jeremy sits down with BJ Lippert, Managing Partner of Donovan CPAs, to explore themes of authenticity and legacy in the profession from a leadership point of view. BJ stepped into a role previously held by a family legacy, and so he has faced unique challenges in making his own mark on Donovan CPAs. In his words, he believes "values matter, systems drive predictable success," and that fun is a core tenet, and all of this informs his decisions and approach. BJ is committed to shaping his firm's future by focusing on positively impacting lives rather than just financial metrics, so tune in for an inspiring discussion on what it means to lead with authenticity and create a meaningful legacy. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

In this milestone 100th episode, host Jeremy Clopton and producer Justin Grant reflect on the journey of The Upstream Leader Podcast—from its early days and evolving format to the stories and guests that have shaped its community. Noting that the show has been a mainstay even as the landscape of the accounting profession has transformed so dramatically in the meantime, they revisit their favorite episodes and discuss just a few of the lessons they've learned along the way. Jeremy and Justin also look ahead to the next hundred episodes, inviting listeners to share their ideas and join in the ongoing conversation and a community. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to the show, this special episode celebrates connection, growth, and the enduring impact of leadership—in accounting and beyond. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com  

How can professionals harness AI while maintaining their ethics and keeping their skills sharp? On Episode 99 of The Upstream Leader, Jeremy Clopton welcomes Emily Primeaux, Writing Manager at Dragonfly Editorial, to discuss AI's role in the workplace. They explore why AI's goal to appease users can be both helpful and risky, the ethical challenges of AI-assisted content, and how to introduce training around AI into your onboarding processes. AI, like any other tool, can be powerful in the right hands and with the right approach, and Emily has a robust approach to ensuring that is exactly how she uses it, through a regularly updated ethical use policy, communication with her clients, and more. You won't want to miss her practical tips on how to balance authenticity and efficiency in this new technological age. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

Jeremy Clopton has an important message about connection on Episode 98 of The Upstream Leader. Connection is something that is easy to confuse with connectedness—something that is at an all-time high thanks to technology. But as he's seen at this year's HeadWaters Conference, at retreats and in lots of other interactions, all this connectedness doesn't have anything to do with the creation of meaningful relationships. So in this episode, Jeremy has sought to offer practical advice on what it means to make a genuine connection, how to make that happen in a natural and organic way, and one simple thing you can focus on to help you do just that: Leading with curiosity. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

Dr. Meg Myers Morgan joins Jeremy Clopton to discuss the importance of self-worth and how it impacts one's career on Episode 97 of The Upstream Leader. They explore how self-worth should not be tied solely to monetary success, but should involve discovering purpose and joy in one's professional life. Meg shares her personal journey of understanding self-worth through raising her daughters and discusses the challenges of pricing oneself, particularly in the accounting profession. They also touch on the psychological aspects of worth, how it influences pricing, and why transparent conversations about value can enhance career growth and professional satisfaction. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

Larissa Bunker, COO and EOS Integrator at Nichols Accounting Group, joins Jeremy on Episode 96 of The Upstream Leader to share her journey to leadership, emphasizing the power of asking questions. They delve into how leaders can create a culture that encourages questions rather than solely providing directives, and the insight, creativity and growth having a question-oriented culture can unlock. This goes hand-in-hand with fostering relationships and engaging team members to create more effective, collaborative environments, and Larissa discusses ways employees, whether they're in the first day with a firm or have been there for decades, can make meaningful impacts within their teams and organizations by being inquisitive and focusing on relationships. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com

Join Jeremy Clopton on this solo Episode 95 of The Upstream Leader as he addresses the vital role of people in the accounting profession's future. Jeremy looks back on the discussions he's had with industry leaders in recent months about the current and future state of accounting, and the recurring theme has been the necessity of developing your people as key differentiators—differentiators that stave off commoditization and make your firm and its services stand out to clients. Jeremy uses the Upstream Growth Triangle, consisting of accountability, adversity, and advocacy, as a framework for fostering personal and professional growth within firms with an eye towards key differentiation. Learn how balancing these elements can help cultivate the next generation of leaders and create a sustainable, high-performing firm. Get the full show notes and more resources at TheUpstreamLeader.com