The Kirkpatrick Podcast

For decades, many organizations have believed they were "doing Kirkpatrick." In reality, they were completing forms. In this episode, we challenge one of the most persistent misconceptions in learning and performance: that the Kirkpatrick Model is a linear, post-training evaluation checklist. That version of the model may be familiar, but it was never the intent. And more importantly, it limits the impact learning can have on real performance. The Kirkpatrick Model was designed to help organizations understand what is changing, what is not, and why. It was meant to guide inquiry, conversation, and decision-making—not validate activity after the fact. Yet over time, in the name of scalability and efficiency, the model was oversimplified. Levels became boxes. Questions became surveys. Evaluation became something we completed, not something we used. When that happens, learning teams shift from improving performance to defending programs. We measure satisfaction instead of capability. We report outputs instead of outcomes. And we miss the very insights that would allow us to design better solutions in the first place. In this episode, we explore what the Kirkpatrick Model was never meant to be—and how reclaiming its original intent can fundamentally change how we approach learning, leadership, and performance. Takeaways: Stop treating evaluation as a post-event requirement and start using it as a performance diagnostic. Replace standardized tools with intentional questions tied to real business decisions. Shift from validating effort to understanding behavior, environment, and results. Recognize that discomfort in evaluation often signals where the most valuable insights live. Use the Kirkpatrick Model as a tool for influence, not just reporting. If you've ever felt constrained by how the Kirkpatrick Model is typically taught, this conversation will feel both clarifying and freeing. 🎧 Listen now and subscribe to the Kirkpatrick Podcast for deeper conversations on evaluation, leadership, and organizational performance. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.     #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel  

Pressure doesn't create failure. It reveals it. In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, we explore a leadership truth many organizations avoid: when performance breaks down under pressure, the root cause is almost never motivation or intent—it's preparation, practice, and the absence of meaningful evaluation. Our conversation with Ray Resendez, Senior VP of Government Solutions at ELB Learning and a former Army officer, forces a reckoning with how leaders are developed—both in high-stakes environments and in modern organizations. From combat decision-making to business leadership, the throughline is clear: when leaders haven't practiced the behaviors required under pressure, instincts fail and emotions take over. We talk candidly about why most leadership training doesn't translate into performance, how organizations confuse activity with readiness, and why data—not gut instinct—is the missing link in leadership decision-making. We also challenge the assumption that learning automatically equals capability, especially in an era where AI and tools can mask skill gaps rather than close them. This episode matters because organizations today are operating in constant pressure—market volatility, talent shortages, remote work, and rapid change. Leaders are expected to perform flawlessly, yet few are evaluated on the behaviors that actually drive results. Takeaways: Stop assuming leaders will "figure it out" under pressure—unpracticed behaviors collapse when stakes are high. Training without rehearsal and feedback does not create readiness. Emotions and ego are the biggest performance risks when decisions aren't grounded in data. Behavior (Level 3) is the most overlooked—and most powerful—leading indicator of results. Performance dashboards should guide conversations, not punish people. Evaluation is not about proving success; it's about preventing failure. If you're responsible for developing leaders, improving performance, or making decisions that impact others, this conversation reframes what readiness really means. 🎧 Listen to the full episode and subscribe to The Kirkpatrick Podcast for grounded, performance-focused leadership conversations. Pressure doesn't create failure. It reveals it. In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, we explore a leadership truth many organizations avoid: when performance breaks down under pressure, the root cause is almost never motivation or intent—it's preparation, practice, and the absence of meaningful evaluation. Our conversation with Ray Resendez, Senior VP of Government Solutions at ELB Learning and a former Army officer, forces a reckoning with how leaders are developed—both in high-stakes environments and in modern organizations. From combat decision-making to business leadership, the throughline is clear: when leaders haven't practiced the behaviors required under pressure, instincts fail and emotions take over. We talk candidly about why most leadership training doesn't translate into performance, how organizations confuse activity with readiness, and why data—not gut instinct—is the missing link in leadership decision-making. We also challenge the assumption that learning automatically equals capability, especially in an era where AI and tools can mask skill gaps rather than close them. This episode matters because organizations today are operating in constant pressure—market volatility, talent shortages, remote work, and rapid change. Leaders are expected to perform flawlessly, yet few are evaluated on the behaviors that actually drive results. Takeaways: Stop assuming leaders will "figure it out" under pressure—unpracticed behaviors collapse when stakes are high. Training without rehearsal and feedback does not create readiness. Emotions and ego are the biggest performance risks when decisions aren't grounded in data. Behavior (Level 3) is the most overlooked—and most powerful—leading indicator of results. Performance dashboards should guide conversations, not punish people. Evaluation is not about proving success; it's about preventing failure. If you're responsible for developing leaders, improving performance, or making decisions that impact others, this conversation reframes what readiness really means. 🎧 Listen to the full episode and subscribe to The Kirkpatrick Podcast for grounded, performance-focused leadership conversations.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.     #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel          

Financial ROI has long been the gold standard of proving learning impact—but what if the most meaningful results can't be captured in a spreadsheet? In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa Alzate and Dr. Amy Heaton explore how to move beyond traditional ROI calculations to measure what truly matters: the human, behavioral, and cultural outcomes that shape real performance. Most ROI frameworks rely on self-reported productivity gains or financial return. But as they explain, the true impact of learning lives in stories, not just statistics. Through an integrated return model, the Kirkpatrick approach combines qualitative and quantitative research—surveys, interviews, focus groups, and behavioral observations—to uncover the full picture of learning effectiveness. From the boardroom to the battlefield, not every success can—or should—be measured in dollars. For organizations like the military, healthcare, and government, success means readiness, safety, and human outcomes. When you blend data with dialogue, you find truth in both numbers and narratives. You'll learn: Why ROI alone gives an incomplete view of learning impact. How to combine quantitative data with qualitative insight. What "triangulating truth" looks like in evaluation. Why behavior, culture, and performance tell a fuller story. How to apply this mindset in your own evaluation strategy. 🎯 Key Takeaway: ROI shows return. Evaluation shows reality. Listen now to learn how to measure what really matters—and prove your impact in the language both people and performance understand. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.     #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #PerformanceImprovement #TrainingEvaluation #CultureOfEvaluation #KirkpatrickModel

Most organizations can tell you exactly how many people attended training, how many completed it, and how satisfied they felt afterward. What they can't tell you—at least not with confidence—is whether any of it actually changed performance. And that's not a data problem. It's a leadership problem. In this episode, I challenge one of the most deeply embedded habits in learning and development: measuring what's convenient instead of what's useful. Attendance, completions, and engagement metrics feel objective. They're easy to collect, easy to defend, and easy to explain in a single slide. Over time, they've become the default—not because they answer meaningful business questions, but because they make us feel safe. The danger isn't that we measure activity. It's that we stop there. Activity metrics tell us what happened, not whether it mattered. They can inform design decisions and identify friction in the learning experience—but they can't tell leaders whether people can perform under real conditions, whether work became easier or harder, or whether systems and policies are actually enabling success. When pressure increases—tight timelines, rising risk, slipping performance—leaders don't want reassurance. They want insight. They want to know where performance is breaking down and what to do next. And activity data simply isn't built to answer those questions. In this conversation, I unpack why our reliance on convenience metrics is eroding trust in evaluation—and how the Kirkpatrick Model was never meant to validate activity, but to guide better decisions. Takeaways: Stop reporting data that comforts you but confuses leaders Treat Level 1 and 2 data as design inputs—not proof of success Ask whether interventions made work easier or harder Use evaluation to test assumptions, not confirm habits Shift from volume of data to clarity of insight 🎧 Listen to the full episode to rethink how evidence should actually support performance—and why this shift matters now more than ever. Subscribe to the Kirkpatrick Podcast to continue the conversation.   👉 Join the Kirkpatrick Collective to connect with leaders shaping the future of evaluation. Explore the Kirkpatrick Collective at https://www.kirkpatrickcollective.com/  Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.    

Welcome to Season 5 of The Kirkpatrick Podcast! In this episode, Vanessa Alzate opens 2026 with a bold truth: We're not suffering from a lack of data—we're suffering from a lack of sense-making. We've never had more dashboards, analytics, and reports than we do today. Yet many organizations are less confident than ever about what's really driving performance. Vanessa unpacks why more measurement doesn't automatically equal better performance, and what learning leaders must do differently this year. From personal missteps to organizational breakthroughs, Vanessa reveals how the Kirkpatrick team used reflection, tough data questions, and real conversations with customers to chart a new direction. This episode challenges listeners to move beyond vanity metrics and rediscover the true purpose of evaluation: to learn what's working, what's not, and why. Key Takeaways: We're not missing data—we're missing meaning. Most metrics track activity, not performance impact. Data without context creates paralysis, not clarity. Sense-making requires reflection, conversation, and courage. Evaluation is a learning tool, not just a reporting function. 2026 will disrupt L&D—and that's a good thing. 🎧 Listen now, subscribe to the Kirkpatrick Podcast, and join the movement redefining learning measurement. 👉 Join the Kirkpatrick Collective to connect with leaders shaping the future of evaluation. Explore the Kirkpatrick Collective at https://www.kirkpatrickcollective.com/  Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.      

What do you do when disruption shakes your organization — restructuring, new tech, shifting leadership — and the stakeholders you've relied on are suddenly gone? In this episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, I (Vanessa Alzate) reflect on lessons from the Training Officers Consortium and my own journey of building community in a new state. Disruption is inevitable, but the way we respond — especially in how we engage stakeholders — determines whether we survive or thrive.Stakeholder engagement isn't just a task on your to-do list. It's about community. In times of disruption, rebuilding relationships is harder, but it's also where resilience, alignment, and performance live. What You'll Learn: Why disruption isn't just economic — and how to spot it in your own organization. How stakeholder engagement mirrors building community in your personal life. The role of empathy and listening in strengthening fractured relationships. Why managers often resist training reinforcement (and what to do about it). Practical steps to proactively build and sustain stakeholder trust. How celebrating small wins can strengthen ownership and alignment. If you've felt frustrated by losing relationships, overwhelmed by disruption, or stuck in rebuilding mode, this episode is for you. ➡️ Listen now to learn how to turn disruption into opportunity. ➡️ Watch the video on YouTube ➡️ Subscribe for weekly insights on evaluation, leadership, and organizational performance. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

Some leadership years don't look successful on LinkedIn. They don't come with celebratory posts, impressive metrics, or obvious wins. But those are often the years that matter most. In this reflective, end-of-season episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa Alzate shares why 2025 was intentionally a catalyst year for Kirkpatrick Partners — a year focused on preparation, alignment, and invisible leadership work that set the stage for what comes next. Rather than chasing visible success, 2025 was about slowing down, challenging legacy thinking, and reexamining what learning and evaluation must become in a rapidly changing business landscape. Vanessa candidly reflects on leadership uncertainty, imposter syndrome, and the pressure leaders feel to perform confidence even when clarity is still forming. This episode also explores why L&D can no longer operate in isolation. As organizations face continued disruption, learning must evolve beyond training programs and into a framework for enterprise decision-making, culture, and performance. The Kirkpatrick Model, long known as the standard for evaluating training effectiveness, is being reimagined as a broader operating lens — one that supports how organizations actually make decisions. In this episode, you'll learn: Why some leadership years are meant to prepare, not perform How "invisible work" creates long-term transformation The danger of measuring leadership success only by visible wins Why L&D strategy must move beyond training alone How catalyst years set the stage for disruption As Season 4 comes to a close, Vanessa also shares why Disrupt is the word for 2026 — not as chaos, but as intentional redesign. This conversation is for leaders who feel the tension between what looks successful and what actually builds sustainable impact. 🎧 Listen now, subscribe to the Kirkpatrick Podcast, and join us as we step into 2026 with clarity, courage, and conviction. Explore the Kirkpatrick Collective at https://www.kirkpatrickcollective.com/  Join the movement. Redefine learning. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

What does it really look like to buy a legacy brand, reinvent it, and lead it boldly into the future—without being born into the name? In this deeply honest episode, I (Vanessa) hand the hosting mic over to Dr. Amy Heaton and open up about the real story behind stepping into the Kirkpatrick legacy—imposter syndrome, missteps, reinvention, and the evolution of who we are becoming as Kirkpatrick Partners. We go behind the scenes of what it means to honor a globally trusted evaluation model while innovating it for a rapidly changing world. From leadership philosophy to enterprise technology, you'll hear how our team thinks about belonging, authenticity, performance, and the next chapter of the Kirkpatrick Model. This conversation also reveals the vision behind our expanding ecosystem: Trevato, Kaddie, Knowly, and KirkpatrickAI, and how each tool connects to our shift beyond L&D into enterprise performance intelligence. Along the way, you'll hear truths about leadership, community-building, women in business, doing more with fewer resources, and designing learning that actually works. What You'll Learn: Why imposter syndrome shows up even for successful CEOs—and how to lead through it. The challenges and responsibilities of stewarding a legacy brand like Kirkpatrick Partners. How the future of evaluation goes far beyond Levels 1–4 and into enterprise-wide decision-making. The leadership behaviors that build trust, belonging, and a high-performing culture. Why simplifying tools, processes, and learning experiences matters more than "bells and whistles." How Trevato, Kaddie, Knowly, and KirkpatrickAI will work together to transform evaluation and performance. If you want more conversations like this—on leadership, performance, evaluation, and the future of L&D—make sure you're subscribed.    Explore the Kirkpatrick Collective at https://www.kirkpatrickcollective.com/  Join the movement. Redefine learning. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

As the year winds down, most learning leaders are rushing to wrap up programs and close out projects — but Vanessa Alzate challenges you to do something different: pause and evaluate your department. In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa explores how L&D teams can move beyond program-level evaluation and start auditing their entire department to show measurable impact on culture, retention, and organizational performance. Too often, we measure courses instead of influence. We report completions instead of stories. But the real value of learning isn't in attendance—it's in transformation. Vanessa shares how to connect the dots between L&D initiatives and business results, uncover the stories that prove your department's worth, and position learning as a strategic driver of performance and engagement. You'll Learn: Why auditing your L&D department matters more than evaluating individual programs. How to define "value" in business terms leaders care about. Ways to connect learning outcomes to retention and culture metrics. How to balance data with stories that demonstrate real impact. The year-end steps every L&D team should take to prove their worth. 🎯 Key Takeaway: Your leaders don't just want to know what you taught—they want to know what changed because of you. Listen now to learn how to make your department's impact visible, measurable, and undeniable. 👉 Subscribe to The Kirkpatrick Podcast and explore more on how to measure what matters in learning and performance. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast. #KirkpatrickPodcast #LearningImpact #CultureOfEvaluation #OrganizationalPerformance #KirkpatrickModel

In this episode, Vanessa Kirkpatrick sits down with facilitators Dr. Amy Heaton and Jordan Rawlinson to reflect on the 2025 Kirkpatrick Summit: a bold, hands-on event where learning and performance leaders reimagined how evaluation drives organizational value. They share behind-the-scenes stories of: The high-energy, experimental atmosphere combining hackathons, improv, and design workshops The "aha" moments when participants shifted from thinking about training to thinking about performance The unveiling of the new Kirkpatrick Model and Vanessa's upcoming book, Building a Culture of Evaluation: The New Kirkpatrick Model for Performance and Innovation Real examples of Level 3 performance support in action What's next: the Kirkpatrick Workshops coming to cities across the U.S. and abroad 🎧 Tune in to hear how evaluation can transform from a compliance exercise to a strategic performance driver, and how your organization can join the movement.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

"Level 3 evaluation is just too much work." How many times have you heard that? Or maybe even thought it yourself? In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, I'm breaking down the myth that Level 3 (behavior change) evaluation has to be complicated, overwhelming, or resource-draining. Spoiler alert: it doesn't. I share a recent conversation I had with someone new to instructional design who was convinced that Level 3 sounded impossible. But the reality is that with the right mindset, partnerships, and tools, you can automate and streamline much of the process—while still collecting powerful data that drives business results. At Kirkpatrick Partners, we've been experimenting with tech partners like trevato and Knowly that make evaluation feel more like a "set it and forget it" crockpot than a never-ending manual task list. These tools can send surveys automatically, nudge managers to support learners, and even provide predictive insights about what your programs need next. And the best part? You don't have to start big. Even a simple, bootstrapped pilot can give you data to prove ROI and make the case for investment in smarter solutions. Because here's the truth: Level 3 evaluation isn't just about measuring behavior change. It's about: Staying connected with learners long after a program ends Building trust with business leaders through proactive insights Spotting pain points in your content and fixing them before they become problems Using data to shift from order-taker to strategic business partner Freeing up time and energy so you can focus on impact, not admin work You don't need a perfect system or a giant platform to get started. What you need is the willingness to take one small step—then build from there. If you've ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or skeptical about Level 3 evaluation, this episode will give you practical ideas (and maybe a little confidence boost) to try something new. 🎧 Tune in now—and let's start working smarter, not harder. 👉 Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and check out our Kirkpatrick certification programs if you're ready to deepen your evaluation expertise.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

AI is everywhere in our work right now—from hiring to performance management to evaluation. But what happens when the very tools we're relying on to make decisions are quietly reinforcing bias and producing dirty data? In this episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, I dive into the growing conversation around AI ethics and accountability, sparked by the recent Workday lawsuit over discriminatory hiring practices. While it may feel like a "tech" problem, the truth is: this affects every one of us in L&D, HR, and leadership. I share real-world examples from my own evaluation projects where unchecked AI outputs could have changed the strategic direction of an entire organization—based on only three voices out of 2,400 responses. That's the danger of handing over too much decision-making power to tools without proper oversight. At the end of the day, AI is just a tool. We are accountable for how it's used. And if we don't build in the right checks and balances, we risk creating biased rubrics, flawed evaluations, and ultimately, harmful business decisions. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the Workday lawsuit is just the beginning of AI accountability in business. How AI bias creeps into evaluation and performance data. A real-world story of how AI almost misled a global membership organization. Why human oversight—not another AI—is the only real safeguard. Practical steps to keep your data clean, your evaluations fair, and your organization protected. The skills L&D leaders must develop to thrive in an AI-driven workplace. This is not about being anti-AI—I love AI and the efficiencies it creates. But if we don't use it responsibly, we risk undermining the very outcomes we're trying to achieve. 👉 Listen now to learn how you can lead responsibly in this new AI era. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

Too often, L&D leaders say that Level 3 and Level 4 evaluations are "too hard" to measure. But the truth is, it's not the metrics or the methods holding us back—it's culture. In this episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa Alzate dives deep into the real barrier to higher-level evaluation: organizations that haven't built the culture needed to support it. Drawing on research and lived experience, Vanessa unpacks why leaders hesitate to own data, why accountability around values is often missing, and why evaluation isn't just a technical skillset issue—it's a cultural one. This is a conversation every L&D leader, executive, and business partner needs to hear. If your organization says it values integrity, performance, or innovation, then Level 3 and Level 4 evaluations aren't optional—they're essential. You'll learn: Why organizations fail at Level 3 and 4 evaluation (hint: it's not the surveys or the tools). The cultural roadblocks that stop managers and leaders from supporting evaluation. How integrity and accountability tie directly to evaluation practices. Why a "fail-safe" culture makes higher-level evaluation possible. Practical ways to start small with pilots and build proof that shifts culture. The mindset L&D professionals need to lead culture change, even in massive organizations. Vanessa also shares powerful reminders: you don't need a "silver bullet" tool to measure training impact—you need the right culture to support it. And while L&D can't change culture alone, it can spark momentum by starting small, showcasing results, and helping leaders see evaluation as a shared responsibility. If you've ever struggled with implementing Levels 3 and 4, this episode will challenge your assumptions and equip you to take the next step toward building a true culture of evaluation in your organization. 🎧 Listen now and join the movement to make evaluation not just an event, but a way of organizational life.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

Managers are the force multipliers of learning. Yet most are overwhelmed, misaligned, or unprepared to support training. If managers don't model, coach, and reinforce new behaviors, learning stalls. So how do you get them on board? In this episode, Vanessa Alzate dives into why managers make or break training success — and what L&D leaders can do to gain their buy-in. Drawing from Gartner research and her experience with organizations worldwide, Vanessa shares strategies for partnering with managers who may not see learning as their priority. You'll learn how to speak their language, reduce friction, and help them build the confidence to coach without demanding perfection. This is a must-listen for anyone who has ever struggled with disengaged managers, overloaded supervisors, or leaders who simply "don't want to manage people." What you'll learn: Why frontline managers matter more than executives in training impact. The top obstacles managers face when supporting L&D. How to speak their language and align training with their goals. Ways to reduce friction with coaching guides and support tools. The importance of building confidence over perfection. When and how to escalate cultural obstacles to senior leadership. 👉 Listen now and learn how to unlock manager support for your programs. 📌 Subscribe to the Kirkpatrick Podcast and join us at the Kirkpatrick Summit for hands-on strategies to bridge the L&D–manager gap. Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

Every organization pays taxes — but are you paying an Ignorance Tax you don't even know exists?In this episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa Alzate uncovers the silent cost organizations pay when they don't evaluate their learning and development initiatives. From wasted instructional design hours to disengaged employees and misaligned strategies, the Ignorance Tax compounds year after year until it erodes both credibility and budgets. Vanessa challenges L&D leaders to stop relying on "thoughts and feelings" and start bringing data-driven evaluation to the boardroom. CEOs don't make decisions without facts, and neither should we. With research from Rob Brinkerhoff showing that 70% of training fails to transfer into workplace behavior, the urgency has never been greater. Takeaways: Why the Ignorance Tax is more costly than the act of measuring impact. The hidden drains on L&D budgets: misalignment, wasted time, and credibility erosion. Why evaluation is not optional — it's the foundation for being seen as a strategic partner. How to shift from vanity metrics to what really matters: performance impact. The importance of feedback loops and annual audits in reducing waste. A practical analogy from Ted Lasso on how teamwork (and evaluation) drives performance. Don't let your department get buried under the Ignorance Tax. Listen now, share with your leadership team, and join us at the Kirkpatrick Summit to learn how to implement evaluation that drives measurable business results.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

What's really "mission critical" in your organization? Spoiler alert—it's not just sales. In this episode, Vanessa Alzate, CEO of Kirkpatrick Partners, challenges one of the most dangerous assumptions in business: that learning and training are expendable when times get tough. Drawing from real-world examples across industries—government, healthcare, military, and corporate—Vanessa makes the case that investing in people isn't optional; it's the only way to sustain performance through disruption. Too often, organizations cut back on training during downturns, only to scramble later when rebuilding. The cycle is reactive, shortsighted, and ultimately costly. Vanessa reframes the conversation: training is not about content; it's about performance. And performance is what's truly mission critical. Key Takeaways: Why learning is the first budget cut—and why that's a mistake. The hidden cost of layoffs and rehiring without workforce capability-building. Real-world examples of mission critical training that saves lives. How organizations that invest in people weather crises better. Why Gen Alpha's expectations will disrupt traditional workplace structures. The difference between optional learning vs. essential performance-focused training. 👉 Don't miss this one if you're leading through disruption, advocating for L&D, or preparing for the future of work. Subscribe to the Kirkpatrick Podcast, share this episode with your network, and join us at the upcoming event to go deeper into performance-driven learning.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

More dashboards don't mean more insights. In fact, they might be what's holding your organization back. In this episode of The Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa Alzate challenges the way executives and L&D leaders approach data. If you've ever sat in front of a sea of dashboards and still couldn't answer the simple question — "What's actually changed?" — this conversation is for you. Here's what we cover: Why too many dashboards create information overload instead of clarity. The hidden danger of relying on vanity metrics like completion rates and survey scores. How disconnected KPIs undermine your ability to prove impact. The shift from data collection to actionable insights that drive decisions. Why alignment, behavior change, and transparency are the real levers of learning impact. Three critical questions every executive should ask before approving another training investment. Executives don't need more numbers. They need better data, sharper alignment with strategy, and evidence of behavior change. This episode will help you move away from clutter and toward clarity so that your L&D investments actually influence business results. Listen now, and if you're ready to move beyond vanity metrics and into data that drives impact, schedule a discovery call with Kirkpatrick Partners. It's budget justification season — if you're only looking at 2025, you're already behind. Let's set you up for 2026 and beyond.

Budget season is here — and for many L&D professionals, that means stress, scrutiny, and the dreaded question: "What are we really getting from all this training spend?" In this episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast, Vanessa Alzate walks you through three essential questions to ensure your learning budgets are justified, strategic, and defensible. Too often, training programs get funded without critical evaluation — draining resources, frustrating teams, and weakening the credibility of L&D. Vanessa shows how to flip the script by using the Kirkpatrick Model as a decision-making lens, ensuring every dollar spent ties directly to organizational goals and measurable results. You'll learn: The #1 mistake L&D leaders make during budget justification. How to tie programs to specific business goals and KPIs (instead of "training for training's sake"). Why behavior change (Level 3) is the bridge between learning and results — and how to prove it. How to separate vanity metrics from true impact metrics executives care about. A practical framework to evaluate vendors, tools, and programs for real business value. If you've ever worried about cuts to your budget — or struggled to prove the ROI of your programs — this episode gives you the language, mindset, and tools to position L&D as a true business partner. 🎧 Listen now and take the first step toward stronger budget justifications, smarter investments, and greater organizational impact. 👉 Don't miss the upcoming Kirkpatrick Summit, where we'll dive even deeper into proving impact and building a high-performance learning culture.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

We've all been guilty of celebrating the wrong data—hours of training delivered, high NPS scores, without asking if it actually changed anything. In this episode, Vanessa Alzate takes a hard look at how organizations define success, why L&D can't do it alone, and why executive sponsorship is critical to lasting change. You'll hear: The "green smoothie" problem with vanity metrics Why culture change must start at the top (and bottom) How middle management can derail your evaluation efforts What L&D pros must ask themselves about their role in the future It's time to move from learning to performance—and stop pretending the status quo is good enough.   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.

Season 4 kicks off with a candid solo from Vanessa Alzate as she reflects on the last two years since acquiring Kirkpatrick Partners. Hear the behind-the-scenes story of building a company through personal sacrifice, the release of her new book Building a Culture of Evaluation: The New Kirkpatrick Model for Performance and Innovation, and why this isn't just another year—it's the catalyst. From designing a new kind of summit experience to launching next-gen tools like Bigfoot and trevato, Vanessa lays out the vision for transforming how organizations evaluate, learn, and lead. In this episode: A raw look at what it takes to reimagine an iconic brand Why most training fails—and what we're doing about it The story behind the book and the upcoming Kirkpatrick Summit Sneak peeks at upcoming tech tools and brand refreshes A call to senior leaders: it's time to stop cleaning the fish   Learn more about the Kirkpatrick Model Watch the Show on YouTube! Submit your Questions/Stories: Do you have a question you would like us to answer on the Kirkpatrick Podcast? Have a story about how the Kirkpatrick Podcast or other Kirkpatrick events/programs have positively impacted your career? We would love to hear from you! Follow this link to submit your questions and/or stories, and we may just share them on the next episode of the Kirkpatrick Podcast.