The Wobbly Middle: Women's Careers In Midlife

Comedy as a midlife career move — and why humour is one of the most powerful tools for change.What if the thing that makes you funny is the same thing that makes you powerful? Journalist, author and activist, Lynn Harris, has spent three decades using comedy to drive cultural change. From co-creating the cult 1990s superhero Breakup Girl, Lynn has now founded Gold Comedy, an online comedy school where women in their 40s and 50s are bringing the most fire.In this conversation, Lynn and Patsy talk about the gender gap in comedy; who gets to talk and who has to listen; why "exposure" doesn't pay the bills, and how your transferable skills are the Candyland board that will take you places.Lynn's message: if you're curious about developing your sense of humor, you don't have to change who you are in order to be funny… Don't wait for yourself to turn into someone else, which you won't. You already have everything it takes.SummaryLynn Harris is a comedian, journalist, author, and activist who has spent her career proving that humour is a serious force for change. From co-creating the cult superhero Breakup Girl in the 1990s to founding Gold Comedy — a fully online comedy school and professional network for women and non-binary creators — Lynn has built a patchwork career that she describes as a "Candyland board": different-coloured squares, all on the same path. In this episode, she and Patsy explore why comedy is such a powerful vehicle for midlife reinvention, why women deserve to get paid properly for creative work, and why the gender gap in comedy has never been about talent.About Lynn HarrisLynn Harris is a comedian, journalist, author, activist, and founder of Gold Comedy, an online comedy school, professional network, and content studio for women and non-binary creators. She co-created the cult character Breakup Girl with illustrator Chris Kalb, which first appeared in her 1996 book He Loved Me, He Loves Me Not and became one of the first multiplatform internet success stories. Lynn has written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, Glamour, and Salon, and served as VP of Communications at Breakthrough, a global human rights organisation using pop culture and media to address gender-based violence. She is based in New York — and Gold Comedy is fully online, so her community spans continents.Key TopicsComedy as a vehicle for cultural change — humour as a "delivery system" for shifting norms and assumptionsThe Candyland board career — transferring skills across a patchwork freelance life, where writing, comedy, activism, and campaigning are all different-coloured squares on the same pathThe gender gap in comedy — not about talent, but about who gets the stage, the mic, the writers' room, and the power to decide what's funnyWomen getting paid for creative work — the Cindy Gallop advice: "Say the largest amount you can without actually bursting into laughter"Gold Comedy's Build and Pitch programme — taught by Ryan Cunningham, where women in their 40s and 50s consistently bring the biggest fire"You don't have to change who you are to succeed" — or to be funny. Your unique perspective is all the raw material you need.LinksGold Comedy: https://goldcomedy.comBreakup Girl: https://www.breakupgirl.netLynn Harris: https://www.lynnharris.netThe Wobbly Middle on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-wobbly-middle/id1767850643The Wobbly Middle on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YhwsBch8Q9vAOUBBfusIvSubscribe to the newsletter: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep25-lynn-harrisFind out more about The Wobbly Middle: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep25-lynn-harrisWhere to Follow LynnInstagram: @goldcomedyTwitter/X: @GOLDcomedyLynn on Instagram: @lynnharrisLynn on Twitter/X: @harrislynnLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynnharris1---If You Enjoyed This EpisodeYou might also love Episode 24: From Teacher's Desk to Therapist's Couch with Carri Simmons. Where Lynn describes the "Candyland board" of a patchwork career — transferring skills in unexpected directions — Carri tells the deeply personal story of leaving teaching and retraining as a psychologist in midlife.---Help Us GrowIf this episode resonated with you, here are two ways you can make a real difference:Leave a review here — it only takes a moment, and it's one of the best ways to help new listeners find the show. Every review counts.Share this episode with a friend — if you know someone who might be in their own wobbly middle, send them this one. Sometimes knowing you're not alone is all it takes.Want more from Patsy between episodes? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's where the conversation continues: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep25-lynn-harrisNew to The Wobbly Middle? Find out what we're all about: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep25-lynn-harrisThank you for listening and for supporting independent podcasts.---

A career pivot story about retraining as a psychologist after a career break — for women starting over in midlife.What happens when you realise the career you built isn't the life you want? Carri Simmons spent years as a drama teacher until the toll of staying in the wrong role became impossible to ignore. "I had to leave because I wasn't able to be open to the world because I was in fight or flight. I was in a trauma mode."In this episode, Patsy talks to her long-distance bestie about walking away from teaching, going back to university as a mother of three, and retraining as a psychologist in South Africa. It's about believing that there IS something more for you.If you've ever wondered whether it's too late to start again, this one's for you.SummaryCarri Simmons was a drama teacher who loved her subject but found herself stuck in fight-or-flight mode, unable to grow in a role that no longer fitted. In her wobbly middle, she made the bold decision to return to university as a mature student and mother of three, retraining as a psychologist. Now practising in South Africa, Carri's story is proof that the most uncertain-feeling decisions can lead to the most rewarding outcomes.About CarriCarri Simmons is a practising psychologist based in South Africa. A former drama teacher and mother of three, she returned to university in midlife to retrain — earning her psychology qualification and building a new career from scratch. She and Patsy are long-distance friends who share a belief that it's never too late to change direction.Key TopicsThe emotional and physical toll of staying in the wrong careerRecognising fight-or-flight mode as a signal that something needs to changeGoing back to university as a mature student with childrenThe power of incremental steps - trying things out before you leapBeing open to possibilities even when the path isn't clearBuilding a new professional identity in midlifeLinksSubscribe to the newsletter: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep24-carri-simmonsFind out more about The Wobbly Middle: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep24-carri-simmonsThe Wobbly Middle on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-wobbly-middle/id1767850643The Wobbly Middle on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YhwsBch8Q9vAOUBBfusIvWhere to Follow Carrihttps://www.instagram.com/carri_simmons_psychologist/---If You Enjoyed This EpisodeYou might also love Season 3 Episode 3 with Julianne Miles. Where Carri tells the deeply personal story of going back to university and retraining from scratch, Julianne explores the science behind career returns — including neuroplasticity, transferable skills and lighting up the pathways. Together, they're two sides of the same coin: the courage to start again, and the evidence that we are still learning and growing.---Help Us GrowIf this episode resonated with you, there are two simple ways you can make a real difference:Leave a review here — it only takes a moment, and it's one of the best ways to help new listeners find the show. Every review counts.Share this episode with a friend — if you know someone who might be in their own wobbly middle, send them this one. Sometimes knowing you're not alone is all it takes.Want more from Patsy between episodes? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's where the conversation continues: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep24-carri-simmonsNew to The Wobbly Middle? Find out what we're all about: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep24-carri-simmonsThank you for listening and for supporting independent podcasters.---

Returning to work after a career break — the psychology of luck, neuroplasticity, and starting again in midlife.Julianne Miles knows what it takes to return to work because she's done it herself. After stepping away from marketing when her children were small, she spent over a year asking herself "can I really start again?" — a question many of us will recognise. The answer was yes: she retrained as a psychologist and went on to co-found Career Returners, a social enterprise that has changed how employers and policymakers think about career breaks.In this episode, Julianne shares the science behind why it's never too late, including the encouraging research on neuroplasticity, work-family enrichment, and the psychology of luck. Her advice? Stop overthinking and start doing.SummaryJulianne Miles MBE spent a year going in circles — "shall I, shan't I?" — before signing up for an evening psychology course that changed everything. That small step led to a conversion course, a career as an occupational psychologist, and eventually the founding of Career Returners, one of the world's largest return-to-work platforms. In this conversation, she shares the research that underpins her book Return Journey, including neuroplasticity (your brain never stops making new connections), work-family enrichment (the idea that work and family can be allies, not competitors), and the psychology of luck — Richard Wiseman's finding that "lucky" people simply see the world differently. It's a masterclass in why confidence comes from action, not the other way around.About JulianneJulianne Miles MBE is an occupational psychologist and co-founder of Career Returners, a social impact enterprise and community dedicated to making career breaks a valued part of a lifetime career. A former marketer who retrained as a psychologist after her own career break, she has shaped how employers and policymakers think about return-to-work practices. She brought the concept of "returnships" — pioneered by Goldman Sachs — to the UK, and is the author of Return Journey: How to Get Back to Work and Thrive After a Career Break. She was awarded an MBE for services to career returners.Key TopicsThe "shall I, shan't I" phase — and how to break the cycle of indecisionWhy confidence comes from action, not from having the perfect planNeuroplasticity: your brain makes new connections at any age — the science says it's never too lateWork-family enrichment: why going back to work can give you more energy, not lessThe psychology of luck — Richard Wiseman's research on why "lucky" people create their own opportunitiesHow Career Returners grew from kitchen table workshops to a national platformNavigating recruitment bias against career gaps — and what actually worksBuilding your return-to-work support team and the power of communityWhy "every no gets me closer to a yes"LinksJulianne's book Return Journey: https://careerreturners.com/return-journey-book/Career Returners Professional Community (free or pay-if-you-can): https://community.careerreturners.com/The Wobbly Middle on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-wobbly-middle/id1767850643The Wobbly Middle on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YhwsBch8Q9vAOUBBfusIvSubscribe to the newsletter: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep23-julianne-milesFind out more about The Wobbly Middle: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep23-julianne-miles---If You Enjoyed This EpisodeYou might also love our Season 3 Episode with Carri Simmons From Teacher's Desk to Psychologist's Sofa with Carri Simmons. Where Julianne shares the science behind career returns, Carri tells the deeply personal story of walking away from teaching, going back to university as a mother of three, and retraining as a psychologist. Together, they're two sides of the same coin: the evidence that it works, and the courage to try.---Help Us GrowIf this episode resonated with you, there are two simple ways you can make a real difference:Leave a review here — it only takes a moment, and it's one of the best ways to help new listeners find the show. Every review counts.Share this episode with a friend — if you know someone who might be in their own wobbly middle, send them this one. Sometimes knowing you're not alone is all it takes.Want more from Patsy between episodes? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's where the conversation continues: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep23-julianne-milesNew to The Wobbly Middle? Find out what we're all about: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep23-julianne-milesThank you for listening and for supporting independent podcasters.---

The neuroscience behind vision boards and goal-setting — and how to use them at a career crossroads.Do vision boards actually work, or are they just arts and crafts with ambition? In this bonus episode, investigative wellness journalist Rebecca Newman draws on the research of neuroscientist Dr Tara Swart, author of The Source, to explain what's really going on in our brains when we make an action board — and why they might be exactly the tool you need in your wobbly middle.Then theory meets practice as Patsy and Rebecca head to the craft room, where scissors and glue meet cork board, to make their own. It turns out a vision board isn't about magical thinking — it's a daily point of orientation, keeping you facing forward.SummaryThis episode takes a dive into the science of goal-setting through the lens of vision boards. Rebecca Newman, a journalist who has written for the Financial Times, The Guardian, and GQ, unpacks the neuroscience research of Dr Tara Swart to show why visual goal-setting can sharpen your sight line through the wobbly middle. Far from being a fluffy exercise, action boards work by keeping your goals front and centre — something you live with every day. Patsy and Rebecca then roll up their sleeves and make their own boards.Key Topics- The neuroscience behind vision boards — what happens in your brain when you visualise your goals- Dr Tara Swart's research in The Source on selective attention and goal prioritisation- How action boards differ from wish lists — making goals tangible and visible- Using vision boards as a practical tool for navigating a career crossroads in midlife- The power of keeping your goals front and centre as a daily point of orientation- Why getting hands-on with scissors and glue can unlock clarity you weren't expectingLinks- The Source by Dr Tara Swart: https://uk.bookshop.org/a/16913/9781785042003- The Wobbly Middle on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-wobbly-middle/id1767850643- The Wobbly Middle on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YhwsBch8Q9vAOUBBfusIv- Subscribe to the newsletter: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep22-rebecca-newman- Find out more about The Wobbly Middle: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep22-rebecca-newmanIf You Enjoyed This EpisodeYou might also love our Q&A with Patsy Day and Susannah de Jager, where they opened the mailbag to tackle listeners' questions about navigating the midlife career odyssey. If the vision board episode got you thinking about what's next, the Q&A offers practical encouragement for when you're ready to take the next step.---Help Us GrowIf this episode resonated with you, there are two simple things that make a real difference:- Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it only takes a moment, and it's one of the best ways to help new listeners find the show. Every review counts.- Share this episode with a friend — if you know someone who might be in their own wobbly middle, send them this one. Sometimes knowing you're not alone is all it takes.Want more from Patsy between episodes? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's where the conversation continues: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep22-rebecca-newmanNew to The Wobbly Middle? Find out what we're all about: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep22-rebecca-newmanThank you for listening and for supporting independent podcasting.---

A career pivot story about rebuilding after redundancy — from risk consultant to magistrate and PhD researcher.When a long-term relationship ended in her twenties, Pip Symington chose adventure. She landed a job in Asia and spent twenty years working across Hong Kong, Shanghai, Singapore, and Japan as a risk consultant and loving every minute of it. She said yes to everything, until one day it was gone.Made redundant and reeling Pip turned to friends and a bit of therapy before redesigning the shape of her working life. She no longer wanted one all-consuming thing. Today, it's family, study, and service that brings fulfilment.SummaryPip Symington spent two decades as a risk consultant across Asia before being made redundant — a pain she describes as like "being dumped for the first time." In her wobbly middle, she rebuilt through therapy, a happiness bowl exercise, and the support of friends who helped her see redundancy as an opportunity. Now back in Oxford, Pip has built a portfolio career that balances her PHD research, teaching music, and volunteering as a magistrate. Her story is proof that a career crossroads can lead to more adventures.Key Topics- The emotional toll of redundancy and losing your professional identity- Using therapy and a "happiness bowl" to rediscover what brings you joy- Building a portfolio career after a career break — balancing study, service, and family- What it's like to volunteer as a magistrate in the UK justice system- Why it's never too late to go back to study — and why midlife is the ideal timeLinks- Interested in volunteering as a magistrate? Find out more: https://magistrates.judiciary.uk/how-to-volunteer/- The Wobbly Middle on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-wobbly-middle/id1767850643- The Wobbly Middle on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YhwsBch8Q9vAOUBBfusIv- Subscribe to the newsletter: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep21-pip-symington- Find out more about The Wobbly Middle: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep21-pip-symington---If You Enjoyed This EpisodeYou might also our Season 1 episode From Lab to Lifeline with Dr Emily Connally. Like Pip, Emily is an Oxford-based woman who channelled her skills into community service — founding a food bank at the school gate that's now reshaping how local networks respond to food waste. Both episodes show how the wobbly middle can lead to something that serves not just you, but the world around you.---Help Us GrowIf this episode resonated with you, there are two simple things that make a real difference:- Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it only takes a moment, and it's one of the best ways to help new listeners find the show. Every review counts.- Share this episode with a friend — if you know someone who might be in their own wobbly middle, send them this one. Sometimes knowing you're not alone is all it takes.Want more from Patsy between episodes? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's where the conversation continues: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep21-pip-symingtonNew to The Wobbly Middle? Find out what we're all about: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep21-pip-symingtonThank you for listening and for supporting independent podcasters.

Season 3 of The Wobbly Middle — real career reinvention stories for women starting over in midlife.The Wobbly Middle is back with a new season launching on Blue Monday, 19 January — that mid-January moment when morale plummets, resolutions flatline, and job searches spike. So we're sending in reinforcements.This season, Patsy talks to women who've forged bold new paths in their 40s and beyond — comedians, psychologists, magistrates, and pathfinders who changed direction because something needed to shift. They talk honestly about what worked and the steps they took, so that you can find your own way forward too.What's Coming in Season 3Season 3 features women who pivoted careers, returned to work after a break, and took their long-neglected ambitions seriously. Guests include:- Pip Symington — risk consultant turned magistrate and PhD researcher, building a portfolio career after redundancy- Rebecca Newman — investigative wellness journalist exploring the neuroscience of goal-setting and vision boards- Julianne Miles MBE — psychologist and founder of Career Returners, one of the world's largest return-to-work platforms- Carri Simmons — drama teacher who returned to university at 38 to retrain as a psychologist in South Africa- Lynn Harris — award-winning journalist, author, activist and founder of GOLD Comedy, a comedy school for women and non-binary people.Links- The Wobbly Middle on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-wobbly-middle/id1767850643- The Wobbly Middle on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4YhwsBch8Q9vAOUBBfusIv- Subscribe to the newsletter: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep20-season-3-trailer- Find out more about The Wobbly Middle: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep20-season-3-trailer---If You Enjoyed This EpisodeIf you're new to The Wobbly Middle, a wonderful place to start is our first episode with super docs Drs Susanne Hooper and Melanie Hacking who are helping women navigate the hormonal highway. You'll get to know us a little and also learn something from these incredible menopause specialists.---Help Us GrowIf this episode resonated with you, there are two simple things you can do to make a real difference:- Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it only takes a moment, and it's one of the best ways to help new listeners find the show. Every review counts.- Share this episode with a friend — if you know someone who might be in their own wobbly middle, send them this one. Sometimes knowing you're not alone is all it takes.Want more from Patsy between episodes? Subscribe to the newsletter — it's where the conversation continues: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep20-season-3-trailerNew to The Wobbly Middle? Find out what we're all about: https://thewobblymiddle.substack.com/about?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=show_notes&utm_campaign=ep20-season-3-trailerThank you for listening and for supporting independent podcasting.---

Actress, writer, podcaster, and mother of three, Salima Saxton joins The Wobbly Middle Season 2 finale to talk about reclaiming yourself. From centre stage to the school gate and back again, Salima shares what it took to reawaken her creative life after years on mute.In this warm, frank conversation, she reflects on the disconnection so many women feel after stepping back from their careers - and how she wrote her way back into her multi-hyphenate roles. Together with hosts Susannah de Jager and Patsy Day, Salima dives into the messy middle of rediscovery, thrills at the power of women’s anger, and throws the idea of “balance” straight overboard.If you’ve ever felt like you left parts of yourself behind, this one’s for you.(00:00) - Welcome to The Wobbly Middle (00:46) - Reflections on Fitting In and Being True to Yourself (02:33) - Introducing Salima Saxton (03:47) - Salima's Early Career and Family Life (07:49) - The Challenges of Motherhood (13:29) - Rediscovering Identity Through Writing (16:25) - The Reality of Success and Failure (20:27) - The Inception of 'Women are Mad' Podcast (27:58) - Estrangement and Family Reflections (31:45) - Final Thoughts THE WOBBLY MIDDLE is a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode.SHARE YOUR STORY: Made a left turn in your career? We’d love to hear about it. Write to us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com—your pivot might just be the nudge someone else needs.SIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.comLEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleABOUT THE HOSTS:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle, a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.

From olympic dreams to a digital sisterhood, Joy Foster traded a career in the City for a quiver of arrows, followed love across borders and then and then, somewhat accidentally, became a digital entrepreneur. Her creation, TechPixies, now serves as both launchpad and lifeline for women looking to pivot, re-enter the workforce, or start from scratch.In this episode, Joy talks about what it means to bloom wherever you’re planted even when the soil is foreign or the sun unreliable. She shares her belief that confidence is a decision, reinforced daily through small acts of doing. From five-minute power moves to three-year plans, Joy’s practical, no-nonsense guidance is both energising and refreshingly doable.If you’re stalled, stuck, or quietly simmering with ideas, this conversation will propel you from inertia to momentum. (00:00) - Welcome to The Wobbly Middle (01:48) - Introducing Joy Foster (03:28) - Joy's Philosophy on Confidence (04:51) - Crafting a Vision for Your Life (09:18) - Joy's Personal Bravery (12:37) - Challenges in Switzerland (15:20) - Resilience and Support Systems (17:14) - Empowering Women Through Tech Pixies (20:14) - Navigating Grants and Funding (24:57) - Reflections and Advice THE WOBBLY MIDDLE is a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode.SHARE YOUR STORY: Made a left turn in your career? We’d love to hear about it. Write to us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com—your pivot might just be the nudge someone else needs.SIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.comLEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleABOUT THE HOSTS:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle, a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.

...and how to build a brand.Liberating and taboo-busting, Rachael Newton (former hedge fund lawyer turned entrepreneur) is part of a new wave of founders, thinkers, and advocates throwing open the bathroom door and reshaping the policies, products, and possibilities of period care. In this episode, Rachael tells us how she designed Nixit, the revolutionary, reusable menstrual disc after she realised her tampon waste took so long to break down it would likely survive the apocalypse alongside the cockroach. Rachael assessed the alternatives in the market and found them wanting. (Hell, there are more gadgets to poach an egg than there are period products). So she started from scratch designing a new type of reusable menstrual disc that could be worn for 12 hours. In doing so, Rachael has not only changed how people manage their periods but also how they relate to their bodies.She also tells us about the moment she put down her law books to become a femtech founder, about the risks and the loneliness along with the pinch-me moment of the pinging of sales. If you’re curious about starting something new, building a brand with purpose, or simply rethinking your period, Rachael’s story is a smart, grounded reminder: you don’t have to go with the flow. Not in your career. And definitely not with your period.To find out more about Nixit: https://nixit.com/pages/menstrual-disc(00:00) - Welcome to The Wobbly Middle (00:17) - Personal Updates and Reflections (00:39) - Discussing Period Stigma (01:54) - Introducing Rachel Newton (03:38) - Rachel's Career Journey (05:14) - Challenges in the Legal Profession (07:55) - Relocating and Career Shift (10:00) - The Birth of Nixit (15:11) - Developing the Product (26:09) - Branding and Marketing (30:51) - Entrepreneurial Insights (33:39) - Final Thoughts and Farewell THE WOBBLY MIDDLE is a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode.SHARE YOUR STORY: Made a left turn in your career? We’d love to hear about it. Write to us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com—your pivot might just be the nudge someone else needs.SIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.comLEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleABOUT THE HOSTS:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle, a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.

Where female investors bring the values—and the returns.Experienced fund manager Leila Kardouche knew that to keep doing what she loved—investing—it had to be on her own terms. So she co-founded Variis Partners, a women-led firm that’s diverse by name (Variis means “diverse” in Latin) and by nature, built on a culture rarely found in traditional finance.In the high-stakes investment world, Leila is confident about what sets the foundation for success: her age, experience, financial stability, and wisdom—along with the complementary strengths of her co-founders. On taking bold steps later in life, she says: “You have a much higher chance of success. We are healthier, we're living longer, we want to be engaged for much longer professionally and therefore doing something like this at 50 is not late at all. It's about the right time.” In this episode, we talk about building a values-led business, choosing the right partners, and busting tired myths about women, risk, and what makes a great investor.(00:00) - Culture Club: Good Karma Only (01:09) - Introducing Leila Kardouche (02:23) - Leila's Career Journey (05:46) - Challenges for Women in Finance (07:25) - Motherhood and Career (10:11) - Founding Variis Capital (12:34) - Building a Diverse Team (19:43) - Balancing Optimism and Pessimism (26:28) - Women and Risk in Investment (31:23) -  What Would You Tell Your 30-Year-Old Self? (33:10) - Final Thoughts and Farewell THE WOBBLY MIDDLE is a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife. JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode. SHARE YOUR STORY: Made a left turn in your career? We’d love to hear about it. Write to us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com—your pivot might just be the nudge someone else needs.SIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.com LEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleABOUT THE HOSTS:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle, a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.

Sophia Champion de Crespigny loved physics. She studied civil engineering for 8 years, fascinated by structure and design. In the workplace, however, she found herself wading through actual sewage in the field - and the more metaphorical kind in the office. Engineering may have been the plan but it turns out it wasn’t the fit. When Sophie finally quit, she left without a grand plan, just with the instinct that there was something else out there for her.(00:00) - Setting Her Own Stones: Building a Life-Shaped Business (00:22) - Balancing Life's Demands (01:01) - Transferable Skills for Lawyers (01:43) - Introducing Sophie Champion de Crespigny (02:49) - Sophie's Journey from Engineering to Jewelry (04:23) - Challenges in a Male-Dominated Industry (08:00) - Leaving Engineering Behind (09:29) - Starting a Kombucha Business (11:53) - Motherhood and Business (18:55) - Launching Sorsa Jewelry (27:23) - Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs (28:24) - The Importance of Authenticity  In this episode, Sophie talks about how she began again - first fermenting a kombucha business in her London flat, and then forging Sorsa, a jewellery brand built around sustainability, beauty, and family life.It is a celebration of women’s businesses of every shape, scale, and intention and the importance of their place and space be it round the kitchen table or the boardroom. THE WOBBLY MIDDLE is a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife. JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode. SHARE YOUR STORY: whether you're in the wobbly middle or have made it through to the other side, we’d love to hear from you — we’re building a library of midlife plot twists! Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.comSIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.com LEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleABOUT THE HOSTSSusannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break—and a podcast producer. She’s worked everywhere from London to Ho Chi Minh City, but these days she lives in Oxford. Patsy is knee-deep into podcast production for SafeHouse Amsterdam (launching 2025) and co-hosting The Wobbly Middle. 

We’ve got mail.Susannah and Patsy open the mailbag and respond to some of your excellent (occasionally panic-tinged) every-woman questions about navigating midlife career change.This means, Patsy, who usually prefers to hide behind the microphone (and strong opinions about editing), has to sit in front of it. Susannah on the other hand is already on her second podcast of the day—just casually interviewing biotech CEOs before breakfast—and brings her usual mix of energy and insight.They discuss:→ How do you find space to even think about change when life keeps getting in the way?→ How do you resist the gravitational pull of the familiar when change is hard?→ And what if tech has run ahead of you… can you still catch up?It’s all a bit looser and a bit more Wobbly than usual. But that’s kind of the point.(00:00) - Bonus Q&A (01:44) - Innovative Career Pivots (03:28) - Listener Questions: Overwhelmed in OX2 (03:53) - Tips for Tackling Overwhelm (05:30) - Focusmate and Task Initiation Tools (06:14) - Listener Questions: Tech Skills for Career Change (07:08) - Upskilling Resources and AI Tools (09:45) - Listener Questions: Staying the Course (10:11) - Aundrea's Empower Framework THE WOBBLY MIDDLE is a podcast about women reinventing their careers in midlife.JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode. SHARE YOUR STORY: whether you're in the wobbly middle or have made it through to the other side, we’d love to hear from you — we’re building a library of midlife plot twists! Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.comSIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.com LEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleAbout the Hosts:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break—and a podcast producer. She’s worked everywhere from London to Ho Chi Minh City, but these days she lives in Oxford. Patsy is knee-deep into podcast production for SafeHouse Amsterdam (launching 2025) and co-hosting The Wobbly Middle. 

When Hannah McCracken returned to advertising after a career break raising her children, she anticipated going back at the same level, with some flexibility. She was met with a “no” — neatly packaged as professional advice: expect less.Less responsibility. Less pay. Less relevance. But for Hannah, time out never meant value lost. She had built her career at some of the world’s top ad agencies. She knew her worth—and wasn’t about to apologise for the years spent mothering. She rejected the tired narrative that stepping away from work somehow erases your talent, ambition or potential.Instead, she came back clearer, sharper, stronger.This is a story about pushing back against other people’s limits. About holding onto your belief when the world tries to shake it loose. And a reminder for women that they have every right to want what they’ve already earned.(00:00) - Break. Return. Rise (01:40) - The Eisenhower Matrix: A Tool for Prioritisation (02:21) - Hannah McCracken's Journey (03:31) - Hannah's Career Beginnings and Advertising Insights (08:08) - Balancing Family and Career (09:01) - The Decision to Step Away from Work (13:11) - Reentering the Workforce: Challenges and Strategies (15:50) - The Importance of Self-Belief and Support Systems (21:14) - Recognising and Valuing Non-Traditional Skills (24:30) - The Role of Flexibility in Career Growth (27:41) - Final Thoughts and Reflections JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode. SHARE YOUR STORY: whether you're in the wobbly middle or have made it through to the other side, we’d love to hear from you — we’re building a library of midlife plot twists! Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.comSIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.com LEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleAbout the Hosts:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break—and a podcast producer. She’s worked everywhere from London to Ho Chi Minh City, but these days she lives in Oxford. Patsy is knee-deep into podcast production for SafeHouse Amsterdam (launching 2025) and co-hosting The Wobbly Middle. 

We get the inside scoop on what it was really like producing a live, chaotic political interview with then-candidate Donald Trump — the pressure, the reputational stakes, and Aundrea’s strategies for the toughest of interviews. This bonus episode is packed with big energy, behind-the-scenes moments plus Aundrea’s “Wobbly Middle” Go-Bag essentials. Listen now! Don’t miss the full conversation with Aundrea Cline-Thomas in our main episode, Lights, Camera...Pivot! Stay up to date with our newsletter. To hear more from Aundrea, listen to her totally energising podcast The NEXT Best Thing. Have you navigated your own midlife career wobble?We want to hear EVERYTHING. The disasters, the triumphs, the moments you thought "I've made a terrible mistake" before realising it was actually GENIUS. Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com. Seriously. Tell us EVERYTHING. We want to hear your story—whether it’s messy, magnificent, or still mid-wobble. Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com and join the conversation.About the Hosts:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break—and a podcast producer. She’s worked everywhere from London to Ho Chi Minh City, but these days she lives in Oxford. Patsy is knee-deep into podcast production for SafeHouse Amsterdam (launching 2025) and co-hosting The Wobbly Middle.

Newsrooms collapsing. Journalism jobs vanishing. Three-time Emmy winner and TV reporter Aundrea Cline-Thomas saw the signs flashing like a breaking news ticker: the industry she loved was falling apart live on air.Stepping behind the camera, Aundrea launched her own production company, Mountain Court Media, as well as the community initiative The Rewrite to help other journalists navigate their own pivots.With the poise of a prime-time pro and the candour of a hot mic, she shares the behind-the-scenes on walking away from a career in front of the camera to build a new career — and how others can identify their hidden strengths and skills to do the same.(00:00) - Lights, Camera... Pivot! (03:38) - Aundrea's Journey into Journalism (05:48) - Challenges and Triumphs in Journalism (10:31) - The Impact of Empathy and Upbringing (11:43) - The Decline of Traditional Media (13:27) - Transitioning from Journalism (17:10) - Empower Framework for Career Transitions (20:37) - Building Confidence and Facing Discomfort (26:33) - The Importance of Community and Networking You can find out more about The Rewrite here. To hear more from Aundrea, listen to her excellent podcast The NEXT Best Thing.  Have you navigated your own midlife career wobble?We want to hear EVERYTHING. The disasters, the triumphs, the moments you thought "I've made a terrible mistake" before realising it was actually GENIUS. Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com. Seriously. Tell us EVERYTHING. We want to hear your story—whether it’s messy, magnificent, or still mid-wobble. Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.com and join the conversation.About the Hosts:Susannah de Jager has just relocated to Abu Dhabi, where she’s podcasting, consulting with start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital. After leaving her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager, she asked the all-important question: what next? Five years later, she’s following her curiosity —The Wobbly Middle is for her and every woman doing the same.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break—and a podcast producer. She’s worked everywhere from London to Ho Chi Minh City, but these days she lives in Oxford. Patsy is knee-deep into podcast production for SafeHouse Amsterdam (launching 2025) and co-hosting The Wobbly Middle. 

Do you feel a pull towards something new but aren’t sure what’s next?So do we! Following a No. 1 ranking on Apple Podcasts GB Careers chart, hosts Susannah de Jager and Patsy Day—who leapt off their own corporate career ladders—return for Season 2 on Wednesday, April 23 with more inspiring conversations about bold career shifts, unexpected opportunities, and the skills we’ve been quietly building all along.This season, they sit down with women who’ve made remarkable career moves, including:An Emmy-winning reporter who stepped behind the camera to launch her own media companyA civil engineer who swapped steel beams for gem stones and built a thriving jewellery coA lawyer who laid down the law to create a game-changing period care empire.Whether you’re making a big leap, a strategic shift, or a slow-burn transition, The Wobbly Middle is here to help you recognise the value of what you already know and use it to build what comes next.This season also brings bonus content—extra interview snippets, behind-the-scenes moments, and practical career advice to help you take your own next step.JOIN THE CONVERSATION: NEW EPISODES drop every second Wednesday. Follow now so you never miss an episode. SHARE YOUR STORY: whether you're in the wobbly middle or have made it through to the other side, we’d love to hear from you! Email us at stories@thewobblymiddle.comSIGN UP TO OUR NEWSLETTER:  thewobblymiddle.substack.com LEARN MORE ON SUBSTACK: thewobblymiddle.substack.comFOLLOW US on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook @thewobblymiddleABOUT THE HOSTS:Susannah de Jager is consulting to start-ups and occasionally advising on scale-up capital having left her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager. She is also host of Oxford+, a podcast exploring the myths and truths of the Oxford investing landscape. Patsy Day is an intellectual property lawyer on a break. She has worked on all things IP from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is producing the podcast SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025). 

Donna was in her 40s when she picked up a camera. A stay-at-home mum in a new country, she poured her passion for food into a blog to fill the long school days. Good photos were essential, so—like every resourceful mother—she taught herself. The result? Drool-worthy, award-winning images that launched a stellar career.Now in her 50s, professional food photographer Donna Crous has cancer. With the same creativity, determination, and heart that shaped her career, she’s using her Diary of a Booby Queen to educate women about secondary breast cancer and to give them the courage to advocate for themselves.(00:00) - Introduction (00:16) - Susannah's Week of Perspective (01:20) - Patsy's Small Steps Approach (02:11) - Introducing Donna Crous (04:57) - Donna's Journey: From Banking to Baking (09:47) - The Leap into Food Photography (22:12) - Facing Cancer: Donna's Story (25:46) - Advocacy and Final Thoughts This is the final episode of Season One. Thank you for your support and encouragement. That the response has so far exceeded our expectations shows that The Wobbly Middle is striking a chord. Women are recognizing themselves in these stories of career reinvention, and they’re feeling seen, heard, and inspired to reimagine the shape of their own careers. We’re committed to continuing this conversation and energizing women to seek purpose, passion, and fulfillment in their midlife chapters.Season 2 is coming soon. In the meantime, you can stay up to date by signing up for our newsletter on Substack. You can also find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @thewobblymiddle.About the hosts:Susannah de Jager has just moved to Abu Dhabi. She is podcasting, consulting to start-ups, and occasionally advising on scale-up capital, having left her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager and asked, "What next?" In the last five years, she has forged a new path following her passions and interests. This podcast is for her and for all those like her.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts, producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025), and co-hosting The Wobbly Middle.

Notebooks at the ready—this is a masterclass in taking ideas to thriving ventures from one of the UK’s most dynamic businesswomen. Debbie Wosskow OBE has built, scaled, and sold multimillion-pound businesses, including Love Home Swap, and now leads the charge for female founded businesses with the £250 million Invest in Women Taskforce and her new venture The Better Menopause. In this candid conversation, Debbie shares the lessons learned from decades of experience: the sunlit uplands as well as the darkness. With a different business for every decade of her life, Debbie’s playbook is packed with insights to inspire your next move.(00:00) - The Wobbly Middle S1 E7 Debbie Wosskow (02:11) - Debbie's Early Career and Success (05:07) - Personal Reinvention and Challenges (15:19) - Building and Leading Female-Focused Businesses (24:46) - Navigating Uncertainty and Personal Growth For additional insights, read The Wobbly Middle on Substack. You can also find us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook @thewobblymiddle.If you are in the wobbly middle of your career, please share your story with us via our socials or email us at thewobblymiddle@gmail.com. We'd love to hear what’s on your mind - and if you're out the other side, please let us know how you got there!About the hosts:Susannah de Jager has just moved to Abu Dhabi. She is podcasting, consulting to start-ups and occasionally advising on scale-up capital having left her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager and asked "what next?”. In the last five years she has forged a new path following her passions and interests. This podcast is for her and for all those like her.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle.

Born in the New Mexico deserts where running water was a luxury, Dr. Emily Connally was an unlikely contender for the ivory towers of Harvard and Oxford — but with grit, brilliance, and a touch of rebellion, she soared. Yet her greatest achievements may not be in the lab...When the pandemic struck, Emily applied the same expertise she used to map the brain’s complex pathways to chart a thriving grassroots network. Starting with a schoolgate foodbank, she built Cherwell Collective which is transforming how local networks tackle food waste and sustainability.From elite academia to community hero, listen to Emily’s warm, uplifting tale of courage, ingenuity, and the power of pivoting when it matters most.(00:00) - (01:37) - Introducing Dr. Emily Connally (02:53) - Emily's Early Life and Education (05:33) - Challenges and Triumphs in Academia (11:37) - Activism and Union Leadership at Arizona (19:30) - The Birth of Cherwell Collective (24:34) - Cherwell Collective's Impact and Future Plans New episodes of The Wobble Middle released fortnightly. For additional insights, read The Wobbly Middle on Substack. You can also find us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook @thewobblymiddle.If you are in the wobbly middle of your career, please share your story with us via our socials or email us at thewobblymiddle@gmail.com. We'd love to hear what’s on your mind - and if you're out the other side, please let us know how you got there!To learn more about Cherwell Collective, visit https://www.cherwellcollective.com/About the hosts:Susannah de Jager has just moved to Abu Dhabi. She is podcasting, consulting to start-ups and occasionally advising on scale-up capital having left her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager and asked "what next?”. In the last five years she has forged a new path following her passions and interests. This podcast is for her and for all those like her.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle.

Sophie was 37 when she was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness. Recovered but with a heavy dose of heartache, she had a choice to make: return to the legal career she had spent years building or follow her passion into the fires of the kitchen.With humour, grit, and inspiring zest, Sophie Archer reveals how her strength grew to fuel her culinary dreams - all the way to MasterChef: The Professionals. This is a story that will ignite your own ambitions and leave you hungry for possibility. New episodes of The Wobble Middle, released fortnightly. For additional insights, read The Wobbly Middle on Substack. You can also find us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook @thewobblymiddle.If you are in the wobbly middle of your career, please share your story with us via our socials or email us at thewobblymiddle@gmail.com. We'd love to hear what’s on your mind - and if you're out the other side, please let us know how you got there!(00:00) - From Courtroom to Chef’s Kitchen: A Feast of Grit and Glory (02:17) - Introducing Sophie Archer (06:26) - The Shift from Law to the Culinary Arts (12:16) - Building a New Career (18:03) - The Kitchen of Dreams (27:43) - Reflections and Future Plans (28:52) - Sophie's MasterChef Experience (30:11) - How to Cook a Gremlin Podcast (31:34) - Conclusion and Farewell About the hosts:Susannah de Jager has just moved to Abu Dhabi. She is podcasting, consulting to start-ups and occasionally advising on scale-up capital having left her role as CEO of a boutique asset manager and asked "what next?”. In the last five years she has forged a new path following her passions and interests. This podcast is for her and for all those like her.Patsy Day is a lawyer on a break. As an intellectual property specialist, she has worked on everything from anti-counterfeiting to publishing and from London to Ho Chi Minh City and back again. Patsy lives in Oxford and is currently immersed in podcasts producing SafeHouse Amsterdam (out 2025) and co-hosting, The Wobbly Middle.