Extrapolate with Rob Hof

Transhumanist pioneer and designer Dr. Natasha Vita-More explains why the AI "doomsday" narrative is a myth, why we need to stop using the flippant term "anti-aging," and how we must fundamentally redesign the infrastructure of human life for a 200-year lifespan.Dr. Natasha Vita-More is an award-winning innovator, academic, and a foundational figure in the transhumanist movement. She wrote the Transhumanist Manifesto in the early 1980s (which flew to Saturn aboard the Cassini-Huygens spacecraft), designed the first conceptual future whole-body prosthetic, and has spent over 40 years researching healthy longevity, neuroplasticity, and human enhancement.In this episode, you get a profound and original perspective on where humanity and technology are heading. Natasha challenges the academic critiques of transhumanism and offers a practical, architectural view of our future—arguing that longevity isn't just a medical treatment, but a complete restructuring of how we experience time, society, and consciousness.She explains, among other things: ◼️ Why the current fear-based narrative around AGI is trapped in false metaphors like the "paperclip maximizer" and how we should actually view it ◼️ Why true AI consciousness must be original and "seminal," rather than just a massive system parroting human data ◼️ Why technology is not alien to us, but a "simpatico" system that co-evolves with humanity, much like mitochondria in our cells ◼️ The concept of the "Human Infrastructure": why our bodies are an architectural project that requires constant maintenance and "utility" upgrades ◼️ The three pillars of the growing longevity industry: scientific research, entrepreneurial business, and the lifestyle advocacy movement ◼️ Why "anti-aging" is a flippant term, the critical difference between lifespan and healthspan, and why gaining years should fundamentally mean gaining wisdom ◼️ How living to be 200 years old will force us to completely rethink the human timeline—from our education and 40-year careers to our relationship with time itself ◼️ Why we must push past "virtue signaling" in academia and embrace the technologies that can end the tragedy of involuntary death and diseaseExplore Natasha Vita-More’s work ◼️ Books (selection): The Transhumanist Reader ◼️ Talks, essays & projects on longevity, AI, and design: https://natashavitamore.comConnect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

MIT engineer and longevity expert Jose Cordeiro explains why we are between the last mortal generation and the first immortal generation, how AI is accelerating the cure for aging, and why he believes humans will achieve biological immortality by 2030.Jose Luis Cordeiro, PhD, is an MIT-trained engineer, transhumanist, and world-renowned advocate for life extension. He is the co-author of the international bestseller The Death of Death and the lead organizer of the International Longevity Summit in Madrid. He has spent decades working alongside pioneers like Ray Kurzweil and Aubrey de Grey to reframe aging not as an inevitable fact of life, but as a curable medical condition.In this episode, you get a front-row seat to the most optimistic and radical predictions about the future of humanity—from the rapidly dropping costs of gene therapy and the $101 million XPRIZE for rejuvenation, to the realities of cryopreservation and why our biological brains will soon be radically upgraded by artificial intelligence.He explains, among other things: ◼️ Why he believes we will reach "Longevity Escape Velocity" by 2030—and why the cure for aging will eventually be essentially free ◼️ The "Dirty Water Bag" theory: why manufacturing human rejuvenation therapies will ultimately cost less than a cup of coffee ◼️ How AI and breakthroughs like AlphaFold are speeding up the discovery of cellular reprogramming and the "Yamanaka genes" ◼️ Why Europe's heavy regulations are pushing longevity research to places like Japan and the "free city" of Prospera in Honduras ◼️ Why he predicts we will have AI "robot politicians" running governments by 2035, leading to more rational decisions and a world without war ◼️ Cryonics as "Plan B": The actual science behind cryopreservation, the use of cryoprotectants, and his timeline for reanimating frozen brains ◼️ His personal encounters with sci-fi legends like Sir Arthur C. Clarke, and why religion and mythology will fundamentally change when we colonize Mars ◼️ The three pillars of transhumanism: super longevity, super intelligence, and super happinessExplore Jose Cordeiro’s work ◼️ Books: The Death of Death: The Scientific Possibility of Physical Immortality and its Moral Defense ◼️ More of Jose's talks, interviews, and work on transhumanism: https://cordeiro.org/ ◼️ The International Longevity Summit (Madrid): https://longevitysummit.madrid/Connect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

Biomedical gerontologist Aubrey de Grey breaks down why aging is a solvable engineering problem, not an inevitable destiny — and why he believes we are closer than ever to "Longevity Escape Velocity."Aubrey de Grey is an English author and biomedical gerontologist, best known for devising the SENS platform (Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence). He is currently the President of the LEV (Longevity Escape Velocity) Foundation. For decades, he has been the provocative face of the anti-aging movement, arguing that the human body is a machine with moving parts that can be repaired, and famously claiming that the first human to live to 1,000 is likely already alive.In this episode, you get a deep dive into the mechanics of aging and the roadmap to defeating it. Aubrey moves past the hype to discuss the specific biological hurdles remaining, his current focus on "Robust Mouse Rejuvenation," and the psychological barriers that stop humanity from treating aging with the urgency of a pandemic.He explains, among other things: ◼️ His definition of aging: why it’s simply the accumulation of damage from metabolism — like rust on a car — and why we don't need to understand metabolism perfectly to fix the damage ◼️ Robust Mouse Rejuvenation: his current mission to double the remaining lifespan of middle-aged mice, and why this specific milestone will trigger a "war on aging" ◼️ The timeline to immortality: why he estimates we are ~15 years away from "Longevity Escape Velocity" for humans, provided funding catches up ◼️ The "Pro-Aging Trance": why people rationalize aging as a "blessing" or "natural" simply to protect themselves from the fear of getting their hopes up ◼️ Why billionaires don't invest enough: the paradox where older billionaires think they are too old to benefit, and younger ones think they have plenty of time ◼️ The limits of AI in biology: why he believes we still need "wet labs" and why simulations alone (even of single cells) can be misleading without new physical data ◼️ Why overpopulation is a myth: his argument that the Earth has plenty of space, and why pollution (not population) is the actual engineering challenge to solve ◼️ His take on Calorie Restriction: why it works for mice but is largely a "dead end" for humans seeking radical life extension ◼️ Cryonics and the future: why the field is criminally underfunded and what needs to happen to make revival a realityChapters 00:00 The Definition of Aging 03:50 Robust Mouse Rejuvenation 08:38 Timelines for Human Longevity 10:44 Challenges in Funding Research 15:53 The Role of AI in Biotech 22:46 The Psychology of Life Extension 29:32 Regulatory Barriers 33:12 Why Aubrey Left AI for Biology 39:32 Addressing Overpopulation Concerns 43:43 Financing, Cryonics, and the FutureMore of Aubrey:◼️ Organization: LEV Foundation (levf.org)◼️ Book: Ending Aging: The Rejuvenation Breakthroughs That Could Reverse Human Aging in Our Lifetime ◼️ Research: Search for "SENS Research Foundation" or "Robust Mouse Rejuvenation"Connect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

Transhumanist author and political candidate Zoltan Istvan argues that AI and humanoid robots won’t just change the economy, they’ll replace most human work faster than governments can respond, and without a safety floor, society risks chaos. His solution is straightforward: Universal Basic Income as the minimum stability layer before the job apocalypse hits.Zoltan Istvan is a futurist, writer, and longtime voice in the transhumanist movement. He’s the author of The Transhumanist Wager, a former National Geographic journalist who traveled through conflict zones, and a public figure known for running political campaigns built around radical tech-driven ideas — from longevity and human enhancement to automation policy. In this episode, he explains why he’s now running for Governor of California (2026) and why AI has pushed him away from old “pre-AI” economic thinking.In this conversation, you’ll hear what it’s like to think like a Futurist: Choosing UBI because it’s the only way to prevent mass instability when millions of people get priced out of the labor market.He explains, among other things:◼️ Why he believes robots will be smarter, stronger, cheaper — and why companies will choose them (they don’t get sick, don’t sue, and don’t stop working)◼️ Why Universal Basic Income isn’t a left vs right idea — and why even people like Milton Friedman supported versions of it◼️ Why governments will likely implement UBI too late — after layoffs, unrest, and “pitchfork moments” have already started◼️ What he calls an “automated abundance economy”: UBI + household robots + a new definition of the “American Dream”◼️ The most visceral sign that this is already happening: his story of walking through San Francisco and seeing driverless cars everywhere◼️ Why “retraining” won’t save most workers if AI improves every few months◼️ The uncomfortable geopolitics: why the US, China, and Europe are effectively in an AI arms race — and why collaboration only happens after catastrophe◼️ His fears about superintelligence — and why racing toward it could be even more dangerous than traditional war◼️ His long-term transhumanist vision: merging with AI, brain–computer interfaces, and a “Star Trek” future — but only if society survives the transition◼️ How his views have evolved since writing The Transhumanist Wager in a pre-AI era, and why he’d write a very different book todayChapters00:00 UBI for the AI Age 03:55 Will We Act Too Late? 05:05 Why Zoltan is Running as a Democrat 08:44 How Fast Jobs Disappear 11:23 Robot for Every Home 15:35 AI Safety & the USA vs China Race 19:41 What Trump Might Do on AI 26:00 Star Trek Future & Meaning 30:53 How Zoltan Became a Transhumanist 35:28 Writing The Transhumanist Wager 39:40 Quantum Archaeology 50:35 Why Primitivism Feels Attractive 56:41 Final Message: Prepare NowExplore Zoltan Istvan’s work◼️ Website: https://www.zoltanistvan.com ◼️ Campaign (California 2026): https://zoltanistvan2026.com ◼️ More interviews & talks: search “Zoltan Istvan” on YouTube / podcastsConnect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

Political economist Nick Srnicek breaks down how AI is reshaping capitalism, work, and global power — and why the real story isn’t “robots taking all our jobs”, but who owns the systems and how states choose to deploy them.Nick Srnicek is a Canadian writer and academic, and a lecturer in Digital Economy at King’s College London. He’s best known for his books Platform Capitalism, Inventing the Future: Postcapitalism and a World Without Work (with Alex Williams), and After Work: The Fight for Free Time (with Helen Hester). He’s also closely associated with debates around accelerationism, post-work politics and the digital economy.In this episode you get an insider’s view of how AI, platforms and states interact — from Washington and Beijing’s different strategies to Europe’s struggle for “digital sovereignty”, and what all of this really means for ordinary workers over the next decade.He explains, among other things: ◼️ Why today’s AI boom sits on top of decades of digital capitalism — and how platforms like Google, Amazon and Nvidia turn data, chips and models into monopoly power ◼️ The crucial difference between the US and China’s AI strategies: chasing “the best model” vs. deeply integrating AI into industry, logistics and state capacity ◼️ How beliefs about fast vs slow AGI “takeoff” are quietly shaping export controls, chip policy and national security decisions in Washington ◼️ Why Europe risks becoming a mere “rule-taker” between US and Chinese AI stacks — and what it would take to become a genuine third pole ◼️ What a realistic future of work under AI might look like: not total job loss, but more surveillance, precarity, and intensified exploitation unless politics changesExplore Nick Srnicek’s work ◼️ Platform Capitalism – how digital platforms extract rent and dominate markets ◼️ Inventing the Future: Postcapitalism and a World Without Work (with Alex Williams) – a manifesto for a post-work, high-tech left ◼️ After Work: The Fight for Free Time (with Helen Hester) – why real freedom means transforming work and care, not just adding gadgets(Search “Nick Srnicek Platform Capitalism” or “Nick Srnicek After Work” on your favourite bookstore or platform.)https://x.com/nsrnicekConnect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

Kevin Kelly – co-founder of WIRED and one of the world’s most influential technology thinkers – explains why you shouldn’t try to be “the best”, but “the only”, why your most “wasted” year might become the engine of your future, and why we’re still at day one of AI.Kevin is the founding executive editor of WIRED magazine and now its “Senior Maverick”. For decades he’s been known as a “cool hunter” of the future – predicting trends in technology, culture and work long before they go mainstream. He’s the author of books like What Technology Wants, The Inevitable, Excellent Advice for Living and his new photography book The Colors of Asia, based on 50 years of traveling and shooting across the continent.In this episode, you’ll hear what it’s like to build a life as a project-driven creator rather than a career employee, to help invent internet culture at WIRED, and to spend half a century documenting a disappearing Asia – all while thinking deeply about the future of AI, work and meaning.He explains, among other things:◼️ Why “follow your bliss” is terrible advice for most young people – and why mastering anything first is the real unlock if you don’t know what to do with your life ◼️ How to design a life where you’re the only one who does what you do, instead of competing to be “the best” in a crowded field ◼️ Why time off, “goofing off” and even taking 6–12 months to do something that looks like failure might become the most important period of your life ◼️ How to think in projects and seasons instead of a linear career – the “Hollywood model”, 5-year projects, and moving between the “cave and the commons” ◼️ His honest reflections on WIRED: what they got right, what he regrets, and why he thinks they could have invented Google-style ad auctions ◼️ Why he believes we’re still at day one of AI, what surprised him about large language models, and why intelligence is not a ladder but a “high-dimensional space” ◼️ Why he thinks truly practical AI needs bodies (robots), what’s missing from today’s language-only systems, and how self-driving and embodied AI may really unfold over decades ◼️ The four books that shaped his worldview – from the Bible and Walden to Finite and Infinite Games – and how the idea of “infinite games” changed how he designs his own life ◼️ The deeper message behind The Colors of Asia: how paying close attention to “ignored” things can become a source of joy, creativity and even a careerExplore Kevin Kelly’s work ◼️ Books (selection): What Technology Wants, Out of Control, The Inevitable, Excellent Advice for Living, The Colors of Asia ◼️ More of Kevin’s essays, talks and projects: search for “Kevin Kelly” and “The Technium” or “The Colors of Asia” The Colors of Asia: https://kevin2kelly.myshopify.com/products/colors-of-asia-a-visual-journeyConnect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

Biotech CEO Liz Parrish explains why you’re legally allowed to choose euthanasia in many countries – but not allowed to choose experimental medicine that might extend your life – and why she decided to become “patient zero” for gene therapies targeting aging itself.Liz Parrish is the founder and CEO of BioViva, a US biotech company developing gene therapies for aging and age-related diseases. In 2015 she famously travelled outside the US to receive two experimental gene therapies (telomerase and follistatin), becoming one of the first people in the world to use gene therapy explicitly to treat biological aging. Since then she’s been at the centre of the debates around longevity, regulation and patient rights.In this episode you get an unfiltered look at what it’s like to take massive personal risk to push medicine forward – from watching her son get diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, to starting BioViva, to challenging regulators with her idea of “Best Choice Medicine”: the right to choose high-risk, high-reward treatments when the alternative is slow, guaranteed decline.She explains, among other things:◼️ The personal story behind BioViva: her son’s diagnosis, what she saw in children’s hospitals, and why she concluded that keeping the status quo is not “safety” – it’s guaranteed death ◼️ Why she chose telomerase (TERT) and follistatin as her first gene therapies, what telomeres actually do, and how they’re linked to immune failure, progeria and the diseases of aging ◼️ What it felt like in the weeks after becoming “patient zero”: the fear, the scientific pushback, and why one advisor told her she had “13 days to live” ◼️ The idea of Best Choice Medicine: why you can legally choose euthanasia in places like the Netherlands, but not choose experimental gene therapy even if you fully accept the risk ◼️ How current regulation really works (phase I–III are still experiments), why she thinks we’re overprotecting people from potential harm while guaranteeing they die of aging anyway ◼️ How BioViva operates today: US-based protocol design, international clinics, licensing in places like the Bahamas, Latin America and China, and why she refuses to treat others before treating herself ◼️ Why she believes gene therapy can eventually become affordable at scale – and why the early “super-rich” patients are actually funding the data that will make it cheaper for everyone ◼️ How her team is building a hand-curated database of thousands of gene therapy studies and using AI + genomics to design combinatorial therapies for complex, multi-gene conditions like aging ◼️ What society gets fundamentally wrong about “anti-aging” and why your organs, stem cells and kidneys are aging far worse than your face ◼️ Her philosophical take on life extension: why she believes longer lives could make us more moral and future-oriented, and why she worries more about a world of short, desperate lives than about dictators living longerExplore Liz Parrish’s work ◼️ BioViva and her gene therapy work (search: “Liz Parrish BioViva”) ◼️ Talks, interviews & articles on aging, gene therapy and Best Choice Medicine (search: “Liz Parrish treating aging as a disease”)https://bioviva-science.com/our-teamConnect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com

World-renowned labour economist Guy Standing explains how a new class of people – the precariat – is trapped in insecure work, unstable income and chronic anxiety, and why he believes a universal basic income is now essential if we want to save democracy, freedom and basic human dignity.Guy Standing is a British labour economist and Professorial Research Associate at SOAS University of London. He co-founded and is honorary co-president of the Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN), the leading global organisation advocating an unconditional basic income. He coined the term precariat in his influential book The Precariat: The New Dangerous Class, and has spent decades at the International Labour Organization working on labour markets, social protection, and economic security.In this episode, you get a rare inside look at what it’s like to spend your life on the front line of the fight against economic insecurity – advising governments, designing basic-income pilots, and warning about the political risks of leaving millions of people in permanent precarity.He explains, among other things:◼️ What the precariat actually is – and why so many young graduates, migrants and formerly “secure” workers suddenly find themselves in it ◼️ How today’s “rentier capitalism” lets owners of assets thrive while wages stagnate, even as people work harder than ever ◼️ Why he believes an unconditional basic income is no longer a utopian idea but a practical necessity for a stable, innovative society ◼️ What we can learn from basic-income experiments in places like India and other countries, and what happens to people’s health, motivation and agency when their income is secure  ◼️ The reforms he believes are needed to move from a fearful, divided precariat towards a more democratic, fair and sustainable economyExplore Guy Standing’s work ◼️ Books (selection): The Precariat: The New Dangerous Class, A Precariat Charter: From Denizens to Citizens, Basic Income: And How We Can Make It Happen, The Corruption of Capitalism, The Blue Commons. ◼️ Talks & interviews on precarity, basic income and the future of work: https://www.guystanding.com/Connect with Robin / more episodes ◼️ All my work, newsletter & socials: https://robinduijvelshoff.com