The Resilient Recruiter

Why do some recruiters get ignored while others hear, “I never respond to recruiters, but I had to respond to you”? Theresa Nordstrom has spent her career on both sides of the hiring table. Before launching her own search firm, she spent nearly 20 years as an HR leader. In one role, she cut agency spending by over $700,000 by building creative employee referral programs and filling roles in-house. Then she crossed to the agency side. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Theresa explains why most recruiter outreach fails and what actually gets candidates to respond. Her answer isn’t more messages or better templates. It’s storytelling, relevance, and clarity. Theresa shares why job descriptions don’t recruit talent, how she uncovers the real story behind a role, and how video helps her cut through candidate noise without being pushy or salesy. She also breaks down why detailed submittals matter, how she uses AI to save time without sacrificing quality, and when it genuinely makes sense for companies to use external recruiters. Sponsor: Recruiterflow This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an end-to-end, AI-first ATS and CRM built specifically for recruitment agencies and executive search firms. It brings together ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one clean, intuitive platform. Several recruitment leaders in our coaching community use Recruiterflow to execute faster, onboard new hires more easily, and spend more time on what actually matters: conversations with clients and candidates. You can learn more or request a demo at recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow In this episode, you’ll learn: Why candidates respond to stories, not job descriptions How to get candidates to self-select early (and save time on both sides) Why progression examples outperform vague culture claims How video outreach cuts through noise without needing polish What most employee referral programs get wrong Why detailed submittals increase interview ratios How to use AI to elevate quality, not replace judgment Episode highlights: [3:01] Why Theresa left a 20-year HR career to start her own search firm [6:41] The Harley Davidson referral program that saved hundreds of thousands in agency fees [9:22] How to elicit the story behind a role candidates actually care about [12:32] Why proof of progression beats generic culture messaging [23:21] How to partner with HR without getting blocked [44:20] The video outreach approach that makes candidates stop and respond [55:03] Why Theresa spends so much time on submittals [58:34] Mixing retained, exclusive, and selective contingent work strategically Guest bio Theresa Nordstrom is the founder of Talent Company, an executive search firm specializing in accounting, finance, HR, and C-suite roles. Before launching her firm in 2015, Theresa spent nearly 20 years as an HR leader, where she became known for creative employee referral programs that dramatically reduced agency spend. Her approach today centres on storytelling, multi-channel video outreach, and presenting candidates in ways that make interview decisions easy. If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

Why do some recruitment agencies collapse during recessions while others keep growing? Gerard Koolen has watched his business expand through three major crises: the 2008 financial collapse, COVID-19, and the war in Ukraine. Each time, Lugera grew. Not by working harder, but by building the business differently. Gerard is the founder of Lugera, a recruitment agency with 11 offices, over 500 employees, and €243 million in annual revenue. Operating across a region tested by economic downturns and geopolitical instability, his firm has been forced to adapt repeatedly. Instead of relying on a single revenue stream, Gerard built what he calls an “all-seasons service portfolio.” Over time, Lugera developed eight distinct revenue streams. When permanent hiring slowed, outplacement surged. When clients froze recruitment, other services stepped in. One stream compensated for another, keeping the business resilient when markets turned. That approach created a new problem. Managing eight revenue streams manually nearly broke the company. Gerard invested 10 years and €2.2 million in building technology to automate work that once required a team of 30 people. Today, one part-time employee handles what used to take an entire department. In this episode, Gerard breaks down how the model works. He explains how to monetise the 99% of candidates most agencies never place, why traditional ATS systems quietly limit growth, and how outplacement can become a counter-cyclical revenue stream. If you want to build a recruitment business that grows through uncertainty instead of being crushed by it, this conversation will change how you think about revenue, technology, and resilience. What you’ll learn: Why Lugera grew 20% during the 2008 recession What an “all-seasons service portfolio” looks like in practice Why most agencies monetise only 0.2% of their candidate database How eight revenue streams reduce risk and smooth volatility Why your ATS may be capping your growth without you realising How automation replaced 30 staff with one part-time role Why does outplacement generate revenue when hiring stops Episode highlights: [03:30] Growing during the 2008 recession [05:53] The all-seasons service portfolio [08:01] Monetising the 99% of candidates you never place [14:34] The real cost of building the technology [19:42] Why most ATS platforms restrict growth [27:02] Doubling placements without doubling effort [31:33] Turning outplacement into a €1M revenue stream [45:25] Automated outreach that converts job ads into leads Sponsor This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an AI-first ATS and CRM built to help recruitment businesses run and scale more efficiently. It combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one platform. Many leaders in our coaching community rely on Recruiterflow to streamline operations and improve execution. Learn more or request a demo at recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow Guest Bio Gerard Koolen is the founder of Lugera, a recruitment and staffing agency with 11 offices across Eastern Europe, over 500 employees, and €243 million in annual revenue. After investing 10 years and €2.2 million developing proprietary AI matching technology, Gerard created the Recruitment Revenue Platform to help recruitment agencies build multiple revenue streams beyond traditional placement fees. This is Gerard’s third appearance on The Resilient Recruiter. Connect with Gerard LinkedIn: Gerard Koolen Website: lugera.com Recruitment Revenue Platform: recruitmentrevenueplatform.com Special offer: Get 100 free credits plus personal onboarding at recruitmentcoach.com/staa Connect with Mark Free strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: Mark Whitby Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Why do some recruiters stay stuck on contingent work while others shift a large portion of their business to retained without pitching harder or sounding salesy? James Cairns found the answer the hard way. James is a CPA who left a stable corporate finance career to start a boutique search firm with no agency experience, no local network, and just $30,000 in savings. His first year was brutal. Three placements. Borrowed money. Serious doubts about whether he'd made a huge mistake. Then one summer night, sitting on his back porch, James made a decision that changed everything. He eliminated Plan B. From that point on, momentum followed. Today, James runs The CSP Group, a highly respected finance and accounting search firm in St. Louis. He regularly beats national firms, fills senior roles up to CFO level, and now operates with roughly 40% of his work on retained or contained terms. In this episode, James breaks down what actually drove that shift. Not better sales tactics, scripts, or pressure. But commitment, process, and the confidence to walk away from the wrong work. This conversation offers a clear look at what changes when a recruiter stops competing on volume and starts choosing the right work. In this episode, you'll learn: Why eliminating "Plan B" unlocked consistent momentum How James moved from 3 placements to 40% retained work The candidate profiling system that generates a third of his placements Why being local and specialized beats national firms How to position retained search without pitching or pressure Why walkaway power matters more than persuasion Episode highlights: [3:44] Why a CPA with zero agency experience started a search firm [6:31] Quitting with $30K, a pregnant wife, and no local network [8:46] First-year reality: three placements and borrowed money [10:04] The back porch moment that eliminated Plan B [18:41] The candidate process that transformed responsiveness [21:51] Talent profiles and how they drive a third of placements [38:02] Why local specialization beats national firms [43:27] The CFO placement that changed everything [50:04] "This is how we work": James's retained positioning [59:06] Why walkaway power leads to more retained work James's story is proof that retained success isn't about being louder or more persuasive. It's about clarity, commitment, and choosing the right work. Guest Bio: James Cairns is the founder of The CSP Group, a boutique executive search firm specializing in finance and accounting talent in the St. Louis market. James earned his CPA license and began his career at PwC in Big Four audit before moving into corporate finance roles. He started The CSP Group in 2014 with $30,000 in savings, a one-year-old at home, another child on the way, and no local business network. After a difficult first year, James committed fully to making the business work - a decision that changed everything. Today, the CSP Group places senior-level finance professionals up to the CFO level, with approximately 40% of search assignments on retained or contained terms. Connect with James: James on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-cairns-062a5b7/ The CSP Group website - https://thecspgroup.com/ Connect with Mark: Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session Mark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/?originalSubdomain=uk Follow on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow. Recruiterflow is an AI-first ATS and CRM built to help recruitment businesses run and scale more efficiently. With built-in sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents, it’s trusted by many leaders in our coaching community. Learn more or request a demo at https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow

Why do some recruiters post content every week and still struggle to book meetings? While others quietly turn short LinkedIn videos into real sales conversations that actually close. Mike Mello has lived both sides of that question. After 10 years in staffing, Mike had built what most recruiters would call a dream run. Over 1,300 placements. More than $100 million in revenue sold. Nearly 140 contractors are billed as enterprise salespeople. Then he walked away. Not because staffing stopped working. But because buyer behaviour had changed, and most recruiters were still relying on volume instead of context. In this episode, Mike shares how he used LinkedIn video alongside outbound automation to warm up prospects before sales conversations ever happened. The insight that changed everything was simple but powerful: senior decision-makers were watching his videos quietly, building familiarity and trust long before replying to an email or taking a call. Today, Mike is the founder of Simple Side AI, where he helps staffing agencies combine content and outbound in a way that creates better conversations, shorter sales cycles, and higher-quality meetings. This conversation goes well beyond tools. It’s about how buyers actually decide, why pain-point content consistently beats ROI messaging, and why most meaningful meetings don’t happen on email one or two. If you’re posting content but not seeing it turn into a pipeline, this episode will help you know what’s missing. In this episode, you’ll learn: • Why visibility now matters more than outbound volume • How LinkedIn video builds context before the first conversation • Why senior buyers watch content without ever liking or commenting • The difference between pain-point content and ROI content • Why unscripted video outperforms polished AI content • How long do outbound sequences really need to run in staffing • Why Mike’s best meetings happen around email six or seven • Why sales skill still matters more than any tool or platform Episode highlights [05:40] How Mike made 1,300 placements and sold $100M before launching Simple Side AI [09:05] The LinkedIn video that changed everything and grew one account to 50 contractors [10:36] Why fear of judgement stops recruiters from posting video [12:04] The analytics that proved LinkedIn video beats cold calling [13:56] Why your best clients watch your content but never engage publicly [19:02] Why content and outbound must work together [23:11] Pain-point content vs ROI content [26:42] Why imperfect video builds more trust [43:53] The observation–problem–solution–CTA email structure [52:19] Turning video viewers into warm sales calls [56:01] Why reactivating past accounts often beats cold outreach Guest Bio Mike Mello is the founder of Simple Side AI, helping staffing agencies turn LinkedIn content and outbound automation into real sales conversations. Before launching Simple Side AI in 2024, Mike spent 10 years in staffing sales, making over 1,300 placements and selling more than $100 million in revenue. As an enterprise salesperson, he built and managed a book of nearly 140 contractors and ranked as the number two salesperson at his company following the acquisition. Mike is based in New York City. Connect Mike Mello LinkedIn: Mike Mello - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-mello-7884b059/ Website: Simple Side AI - https://simplesideai.com/ Mark Whitby Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mwhitby Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Why do some recruiters command premium fees while others compete on speed and price? It’s not talent or experience. It’s whether they’ve packaged their service as a product. Andrea Hoffer learned this lesson the hard way. Before launching her consulting business, Andrea spent 10 years running a Massage Envy Spa franchise. She led a team of more than 30 employees. Her therapeutic staff stayed. Her front-desk hires didn’t. Turnover was constant. She hired fast, hoped for the best, watched people struggle in a sales-driven role, then repeated the cycle. Eventually, she stopped and asked herself a simple question: “I’ve been trained better than this.” That question changed everything. Andrea rebuilt her hiring approach from scratch and turned it into a branded, repeatable system she now calls the Dream Hire framework. It worked so well that other franchise owners began asking for help. Today, Andrea runs AHA Talent Consulting, where she helps business owners build “hiring machines” that consistently attract the right people. She charges $10,000+ for setup and $3,000+ monthly subscriptions. No placement fees. She’s not selling placements. She’s selling a system. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, we break down how to package your recruitment process as a signature solution, why story-based discovery beats traditional intake calls, and where AI genuinely adds leverage without replacing human judgment. In This Episode, You’ll Learn: Why packaging your process matters more than speed or experience How the Dream Hire framework works and why Define is the most skipped (and costly) stage Why asking for stories reveals more than job descriptions ever will How to assess culture fit without relying on gut feel Where AI creates real value in hiring and where it doesn’t How to use technology to scale insight without losing trust Episode Highlights [4:10] The hiring nightmare that forced Andrea to rebuild her entire process [7:38] Why changing the job posting language repelled the wrong candidates [9:31] The 90-minute group interview where candidates self-select out [12:24] Breaking down the Dream Hire framework: Define, Reach, Engage, Assess, Motivate [13:23] Why most recruiters skip defining and pay for it later [30:20] Assessing culture fit by asking for stories, not descriptions [36:08] The CAR technique for behavioral interviewing [39:58] Where AI creates the most value in hiring [41:02] Using AI chatbots to screen minimum qualifications [52:20] How Andrea uses AI to extend reach without extending hours Guest Bio Andrea Hoffer is the founder of AHA Talent Consulting and creator of the Dream Hire framework. She helps business owners attract, hire, and retain the right people through structured hiring systems and disciplined use of AI. Before consulting, Andrea spent 10 years as the owner and operator of a Massage Envy Spa franchise, where she led a 30+ person team and experienced firsthand the cost of hiring without structure. Today, she works primarily with multi-unit franchisees and small business owners who want predictable hiring outcomes without constant churn. If you’re ready to stop competing on speed and price and start owning your process, your positioning, and your outcomes, this episode is a must-listen.

There’s a lot of noise around AI in recruitment. Some people are selling it as a silver bullet. Others are predicting a job apocalypse for recruiters. Neither is true. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Mark Whitby sits down with Rebecca Hastings to talk about what’s actually happening inside businesses using AI right now and what recruiters are getting wrong. Rebecca advises CEOs, boards, and AI leaders on strategy, governance, and implementation. She’s reviewed hundreds of real-world AI transformation case studies and brings a grounded perspective most recruiters never see. Alongside that, she’s built a retained-only executive search firm focused on senior AI leadership and a sales system that consistently books high-quality meetings without volume-driven hustle. This conversation isn’t about tools or tactics. It’s about judgment, trust, and process. You’ll hear why AI doesn’t make work faster unless human capability is already in place, how weak sales systems are exposed when automation is added, and why recruiters who can explain how they use AI will earn more trust, not less. Rebecca also breaks down how she thinks about sales as a system, from market focus and listening time to multichannel outreach and AI-supported preparation. The result is fewer calls, better conversations, and more consistent meetings. If you want to understand where AI genuinely helps recruiters and where it quietly causes damage, this episode will change how you think about it. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why there won’t be a job apocalypse for recruiters How AI shifts bottlenecks instead of removing them Why trust and psychological safety matter in AI adoption How to build market expertise AI can amplify The sales system Rebecca uses to book more meetings with less effort Episode highlights: [3:42] How Rebecca billed £360,000 in her first year [14:08] Lessons from market downturns [32:17] Why listening time beats talk time [59:37] What actually happens when AI is introduced [1:15:26] The multichannel sales system behind consistent meetings Guest bio: Rebecca Hastings is the founder of Lucent Search, specialising in senior AI leadership appointments globally. She works with CEOs, CTOs, heads of AI, and boards on AI strategy, governance, and transformation, and is an AI and systems coach with Recruitment Coach.

This episode brings together the ten most listened-to conversations of 2025. They weren’t popular by accident. These episodes resonated because they spoke directly to the challenges recruiters were dealing with day to day. Planning your time. Building pipeline. Positioning retained search. Recovering from burnout. Staying relevant as the market and LinkedIn both shifted. If you missed any of these conversations the first time around, consider this your shortlist for heading into 2026 with a clearer plan and stronger focus. In this episode, you’ll hear insights on: How to plan your day so you stay out of reactive work How to build business development into your week without burning out How to position retained search with confidence Why systems create more consistency than chasing placements How relationship-building compounds over time Why LinkedIn's reach dropped and what actually matters now Episode timestamps: 00:01 Introduction 02:30 Allicia Birch – The 15-minute planning system 09:15 Rachel Filby – One BD day per week 14:20 Carol Wenom – Positioning retained search 21:05 Stuart Barnes – The three-bucket BD model 28:40 Jenny Diaz – Writing your plan by hand 34:10 Deedee Doke – Differentiation and innovation 39:45 Jessica Hamilton – Systems over placements 45:30 Brandon Glyck – Relationship compounding 52:00 Karolina Willis – From breakdown to breakthrough 58:15 Richard van der Blom – Why LinkedIn reach dropped If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

Tonya Leadman went nine months without a single placement. Seven searches were put on hold. Two offers fell through. Cash flow tightened. And her accountant called to check if she was okay. Tonya is the owner of Leadman & Associates, a national executive search firm serving the food, beverage, and CPG manufacturing industries. After building her career as a top performer in the MRI Network and later moving in-house as a Fortune 500 talent acquisition leader, she launched her own firm in 2022. Then the market turned — and placements stopped. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Tonya shares what actually keeps a recruitment business alive during a prolonged downturn — without dropping fees, spamming clients with resumes, or compromising standards. She also breaks down the candidate presentation system behind her 92% interview rate, why she only submits the top two or three candidates, and the activity that kept her visible when most recruiters disappeared. This is a real conversation about resilience, discipline, and leadership when placements stop. You’ll learn: What to do when your recruitment business goes months without a placement How Tonya maintained standards during a nine-month drought Why submitting fewer candidates builds more trust with clients The candidate presentation process behind a 92% interview rate How staying visible during a downturn pays off when the market turns Why Tonya fired a client when cash flow was tight How career services helped stabilise revenue without losing focus How fast recruiting can turn around when momentum returns Episode timestamps: 00:00 Nine months without a placement 01:40 Returning from maternity leave to a layoff 03:10 The habits that shaped Tonya’s early success 14:35 The candidate presentation system behind a 92% interview rate 18:19 Why Tonya submits only the top 2–3 candidates 30:33 Launching a firm during a tough market 39:00 Seven searches on hold and the drought begins 43:02 The activity that kept her business alive 44:30 Firing a client during a downturn 49:17 Career services as a stabiliser 51:05 How recruiting can turn around fast Guest: Tonya Leadman Owner, Leadman & Associates If you run a recruitment agency and want to survive market downturns without lowering your standards, this episode is essential listening.

For years, Matt Rooney did what a lot of capable recruiters do. He stayed busy. Took the work that came in. Said yes more often than he should have. Inside private equity, that turned him into what he later called a "utility recruiter". Useful, but reactive. Some years were strong. Others weren't. And it never quite felt like a real partnership with clients. Two decisions changed the direction of his business. Matt narrowed his focus to one role inside private equity: business development and deal origination. Then he made the shift from contingent to retained. Today, Matt is the founder of Coastal Partners. He's gone from closing 3–4 retained searches in his first year as a specialist to being on track for 10 retained searches this year, with the majority of his work now retained. In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Matt breaks down what actually made that transition possible. Not theory. Not scripts. Real decisions, real resistance, and what changed once clients started committing up front. This conversation is especially relevant if you run a recruitment agency, lead a small firm, or feel stuck in feast-or-famine despite working hard. What you'll learn: Why being a "utility recruiter" keeps agencies reactive What changed when Matt stopped taking every job How he handled the "no retained experience" objection Why specialisation built confidence and credibility fast How original market data helped him become a trusted partner Why predictability mattered more than volume Episode timestamps: [00:33] Why does contingent feel reactive [03:02] How Matt fell into recruitment [07:11] Feeling stuck as a utility recruiter [12:44] Resisting the idea of niching down [15:18] Why specialisation changed client relationships [19:03] Making the move to retained [20:39] First retained searches and predictability [27:40] Mapping the market and building authority [34:16] Publishing hiring reports and compensation data [35:25] Launching the Deal Sourcery podcast [50:31] Hosting a live panel at a PE conference [55:56] Why Matt would specialise sooner Guest bio: Matt Rooney is the founder of Coastal Partners and specialises exclusively in business development and deal origination roles within private equity. After nearly a decade recruiting across PE functions, Matt made the decision to focus on one specialty. In his first year as a retained specialist, he closed 3-4 retained searches. This year, he's on track to close 10, with the majority of his business now retained. Matt has become a recognised authority in his niche through original market research, publishing quarterly BD hiring reports and an annual compensation survey. He co-hosts the Deal Sourcery podcast with Dan Her—the only podcast dedicated specifically to business development professionals in private equity. Connect with Matt: LinkedIn: Matt Rooney Coastal Partners: website Deal Sourcery Podcast: website About The Resilient Recruiter: The Resilient Recruiter is a weekly podcast for recruitment agency owners and search firm leaders building sustainable, profitable businesses. Host Mark Whitby interviews industry leaders who share the strategies, systems, and mindsets behind their success—including the mistakes they made along the way. Learn from their experience to avoid the pitfalls and accelerate your results.. Since 2001, Mark has coached over 800 recruitment business owners across 34 countries. The podcast brings you the same frameworks and insights Mark teaches in his coaching programs—free every week. Connect with Mark: Free strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: Mark Whitby Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter for weekly conversations with recruitment leaders who are building businesses that give them freedom, profit, and lasting impact. If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

AI is accelerating at a rate faster than at any point in recruitment history. New tools are emerging monthly. Employers are experimenting without clear guardrails. And agency owners are left wondering which developments will matter - and which are just noise. In this episode, I sit down with Matt Alder, talent acquisition futurist and host of Recruiting Future, to cut through the hype and focus on the realities of AI in recruitment today. With more than 25 years tracking technology's impact on talent acquisition, Matt brings a long-term perspective few others can match. We explore the shift from experimentation to adoption, including real examples of employers using AI to conduct live voice interviews with candidates. Matt breaks down where AI is already delivering value, where it's still falling short, and why trust has become the most important currency in recruitment. He explains the three human skills that will keep recruiters indispensable - networks, relationships, and influence - and why agencies who double down on these strengths will rise above the noise. We also discuss the two competing futures unfolding right now: Recruiting Utopia vs Recruiting Dystopia. Matt closes with a prediction about agentic AI - a future where candidate agents and employer agents negotiate autonomously. It sounds futuristic, but Matt believes it's entirely feasible and may reshape the industry faster than people expect. If you're a recruitment leader looking to stay ahead of technological change, this episode offers clarity, direction, and a practical roadmap for the years ahead. TAKEAWAYS - Why the pace of AI innovation is unlike anything the recruitment industry has seen - How employers are already using AI to conduct voice interviews - Why trust is eroding - and how recruiters can rebuild it - The three human skills that keep recruiters relevant - Why outreach automation isn't effective yet - How candidate-facing AI may disrupt faster than employer tech - The two competing futures: Recruiting Utopia vs Dystopia - What agentic AI could mean for hiring and recruiter influence TIMESTAMPS 4:23 Matt's background and the evolution of TA tech 7:19 What HR/IT convergence reveals about the future 10:29 AI hype vs practical reality 14:18 Where AI is already improving recruitment processes 21:14 Why AI interviews may enhance candidate experience 26:24 Categories of AI tools shaping workflows 32:45 Why automation isn't fixing outreach 40:20 Networks, relationships, influence - the future skillset 47:02 The erosion of trust and how recruiters can differentiate 52:16 Recruiting Utopia vs Recruiting Dystopia 55:04 The agentic AI future 57:48 What agency owners must pay attention to now GUEST BIO Matt Alder is a talent acquisition futurist, international speaker, author, and host of Recruiting Future, the number one podcast in the recruitment industry. Over the past 11 years, he has interviewed hundreds of leaders and innovators across the global TA landscape. Matt advises employers on innovation and technology strategy and has been studying recruitment technology since the late 1990s. GUEST LINKS LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattalder/ Recruiting Future Podcast: http://www.recruitingfuture.com CONNECT WITH MARK WHITBY FREE Strategy Call: https://recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/recruitmentcoach/ Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter: https://plinkhq.com/i/1489513354

For 20 years, Maria Sinclair watched other people get promoted while she stayed stuck in her own head. She questioned whether she belonged, worried about how she was perceived, and doubted nearly every decision she made. Then Covid hit, and everything changed. Cobalt furloughed 45 of its 55 UK staff, leaving only ten people working. Maria picked up multiple desks, supported clients across new specialisms, and kept the operation steady during one of the most challenging periods the industry had ever seen. That moment revealed a capability she had never fully recognised in herself. Today, Maria is the Managing Director of Cobalt, ranked 49th in the UK’s Hot 100 list based on GP per employee. After 23 years with the business, she has worked her way up from recruitment consultant to MD while helping build a culture known for tenure, trust, and consistent performance. In this conversation, Maria explains how she built confidence later in her career, why she focuses on job quality over call volume, how openness about challenges like perimenopause strengthens team culture, and how Cobalt hires for work ethic and trains for market expertise. If you have ever doubted whether you are ready to lead, this episode shows what becomes possible when you start backing yourself. You’ll learn: • How Maria entered recruitment after being rejected eight times • Why confidence took decades to develop • How she navigated the 2009 crash, Brexit, and Covid • Why the COVID-19 crisis became the turning point in her leadership • The cultural principles that support performance • Why job quality matters more than call volume • How Cobalt assesses work ethic and validates billings • The patience required to train recruiters from other sectors • Why expertise beats activity in the built environment Timestamps: [6:00] Breaking into recruitment after eight rejections [18:29] The confidence struggle [24:09] Navigating economic shocks [25:36] The Covid moment [28:49] The promotion that shifted everything [30:44] Being open about perimenopause [36:17] Culture and retention [41:37] KPIs that matter [50:18] Hiring for work ethic [54:29] Training recruiters from other sectors [58:13] Becoming an industry expert [1:01:06] Closing rate problems and what they mean Guest Bio: Maria Sinclair is the Managing Director of Cobalt, operating across the built environment with offices in the UK, Germany, and the US. Cobalt ranks 49th in Recruiter Magazine’s Hot 100 list based on GP per employee. Maria has been with Cobalt for 23 years and was appointed UK MD in January 2024.

What does it take to raise your fees, win better clients, and rebuild your recruiting business from the ground up? In this episode, I speak with Randee Staats, founder of S4 Search Partners, who went from losing everything — $250K in debt and $500 left — to rebuilding a seven-figure desk within the following year. Randee explains the decisions that nearly destroyed his business, the turning point that pushed him to rebuild, and the systems that rebuilt his confidence, his pipeline, and his profitability. He also breaks down the daily discipline, fee structure changes, and point-based productivity system that helped him win better clients and finally charge what he is worth. In This Episode, You'll Learn: How Randee launched his firm from his parents' basement The moment he landed a billion-dollar client The scaling mistake that cost him $250K Why he walked away from a $600K account How he raised his fees to 20 to 25 percent The script he uses to convert email replies into meetings The daily BD rhythm that rebuilt his pipeline The point system that keeps him consistent How he broke seven figures the year after rebuilding Episode Highlights 02:49 Discovering recruiting 05:04 Launching from the basement 09:35 The Jim Carrey check 13:15 Early success and hidden risks 14:18 The scaling mistake 17:16 The turning point 23:10 The weekly client call script 42:00 The wake-up call 44:14 New rules for pricing 46:47 The $30K placement 50:21 Daily planner 51:22 BD rhythm 1:03:09 The point system 1:07:33 Breaking seven figures Guest Bio Randee Staats is the founder of S4 Search Partners, based in New Jersey. He launched the firm in 2015, scaled a major national account to $600K, and later rebuilt his business from $500 and $250K in debt to seven-figure billings using a disciplined daily system and a new fee structure. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randee-staats/ Connect with Mark Whitby Free 30-minute strategy call: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/ Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Why do some recruiters struggle for traction while others build demand engines that bring clients to them? My guest, Tom Froggatt, made that shift after three days of calling 600 people with no results. Tom is the founder of Singular, a biotech search firm and one of Europe's leading specialists. Six months after launching the business, he hit a breaking point that changed everything. Instead of doubling down on cold calls, Tom built a system that creates predictable client demand. Today, a £4,000 campaign can generate £55,000 in revenue, and his business runs on consistent inbound opportunities. In this conversation, Tom explains how he replaced cold outreach with a system, how he uses content and insight reports to convert strangers into six figure clients, and why the volume required for effective marketing is far higher than most recruiters expect. In this episode, you'll discover Why Tom realised he did not have a BD problem but a systems problem How three days of rejection created a turning point How podcasting connected him with senior biotech leaders Why each client is worth £55,000 in 12 months How his insight report converts inbound retained work Why most recruiters underestimate the required volume How thinking like a tech founder beats thinking like a traditional recruiter Episode Highlights [6:44] Starting Singular in a windowless office and the six-month reality check [19:16] Three days, 600 calls, zero results. The moment everything changed [21:22] Launching "Careers in Discovery" and building relationships with senior biotech leaders [22:05] The podcast guest who walked Tom straight to HR and introduced him on the spot [36:44] The mindset shift from "winning clients" to building revenue-generating systems [42:16] Why each client is worth £55,000 in 12 months and what that means for ad spend [49:30] The exact funnel. Free insight reports that convert strangers into six-figure partnerships [54:14] Why Tom gives away £2,500 worth of market data for free and why it works [58:47] How to identify real client pain points without guessing [1:03:09] Why reverse engineering problems to fit your service always fails [1:10:27] The volume truth. Why 200 outreach attempts are not nearly enough If you want to build predictable client demand without relying on cold outreach, this episode will show you how. Guest Bio Tom Froggatt is the founder of Singular, a biotech search and talent company specialising in early drug discovery roles across Europe. Before Singular, Tom spent ten years at S3, where he opened their New York office at age 25. He is also the host of the Careers in Discovery podcast with more than 300 episodes. Connect with Tom LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tom-froggatt Singular: https://book.singular-biotech.com/web Versapia website Connect with Mark Free strategy call: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mwhitby Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Why do some recruitment founders build seven-figure businesses while others plateau despite working just as hard? My guest, Ollie Scott, discovered growth doesn't come from hustle alone. It comes from strategic bets. Ollie is the founder of Unknown, a talent growth consultancy that's worked with over 500 brands including Nike, Apple, and Disney. Six years ago, he started with £13,000 on a credit card and one mission: build the opposite of every recruitment company he'd ever seen. In this episode, Ollie shares his journey from rebellion to revenue. You'll hear why differentiation always beats trying to be the best, how scaling from 8 to 18 people nearly destroyed his business, and the three strategic bets he used to rebuild. You’ll Learn: • Why trying to be the “best” agency is a losing strategy • How Unknown defined a point of view clients cared about • What went wrong scaling from 8 to 18 people • Why profit is the safety net that enables innovation • How to build a productized recruitment offering • Why freelance talent pools are the future of recurring revenue • How recruiters can monetise M&A intelligence • How to price buy-side advisory at six-figure fees Episode Timestamps: [4:05] Selling suits to James Caan’s recruitment firm [10:23] Launching Unknown with £13,000 on a credit card [15:36] Naming strategy and brand distinctiveness [18:26] Writing a breakup letter to recruitment companies [21:44] Why rebellion works early but can’t scale [36:36] Productizing around three ICPs [44:03] Scaling to 18 people destroyed profit margins [48:34] Profit as psychological safety [53:20] Building recurring revenue through freelance talent pools [58:25] Why recruiters have more M&A intelligence than M&A firms Guest Bio: Ollie Scott is the founder of Unknown, a £3 million talent growth consultancy specialising in the global creative industry. Before launching Unknown, Ollie spent six years at Gemini People, joining the board in his early twenties. Unknown now operates across executive search, freelance talent pools, and M&A advisory for creative agencies. Connect with Ollie: LinkedIn: Ollie Scott Website: unknown.media Connect with Mark: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session linkedin.com/in/markwhitby Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Why do some recruitment business leaders triple their revenue while others plateau despite working twice as hard? My guest, Martin Herbst, discovered the answer the hard way. After hitting rock bottom with burnout, he rebuilt his leadership philosophy from the ground up — and within five years, JobAdder tripled its revenue and client base. Martin is the CEO of JobAdder, one of the world’s leading recruitment technology platforms. Under his leadership, the company has achieved record growth while helping recruiters work smarter without losing the human touch. In this episode, Martin opens up about his personal experience with burnout and shares how he transformed that crisis into a leadership breakthrough. You’ll learn how he built a healthier, more effective approach to scaling a recruitment business one that’s rooted in purpose, values, and vision rather than constant hustle. He also breaks down the exact leadership frameworks that helped JobAdder grow sustainably: how to align your team around a clear long-term strategy, why empathy drives innovation, and how to balance big-picture vision with daily execution. Beyond leadership, Martin dives into how technology and AI are reshaping recruitment. He explains where automation genuinely creates value for recruiters, how to avoid the “AI hype trap,” and why human connection will always be the most powerful differentiator in this business. If you’ve ever struggled with overwhelm, exhaustion, or inconsistent growth, this conversation is a must-listen. Martin’s story is proof that scaling your business doesn’t require sacrificing your health or your values. In this episode, you’ll discover: How burnout became the catalyst for a breakthrough The daily habits that keep stress and anxiety in check Why swimming is Martin’s secret weapon for clarity and focus The strategy process behind JobAdder’s 5-year growth story Why most recruitment leaders underinvest in long-term planning How to use vision and values as your ultimate growth levers The fundamental role of AI in recruitment (and where it adds true value) Why the best BD technology is still the telephone Episode highlights: [6:44] The burnout story: high anxiety and insomnia that led to stepping away completely [11:17] Morning and evening borders: the simple habits that prevent burnout from creeping back [19:32] How JobAdder tripled revenue in five years, and why it wasn’t about working harder [23:31] Why most recruitment agency owners underinvest in strategy and long-term vision [32:29] Why recruitment might be the profession most immune to AI disruption [48:36] Why automation has created diminishing returns in outreach [53:59] The #1 business development tool that still outperforms AI Martin’s story is both a cautionary tale and an inspiring roadmap for recruiters who want to build high-performing, values-driven businesses that last. Guest Bio: Martin Herbst is the CEO of JobAdder, a global recruitment software company headquartered in Sydney, Australia. Under his leadership, JobAdder has tripled its revenue and client base in five years. Before joining JobAdder in 2020, Martin spent nearly seven years at eBay running their classifieds business in Australia (Gumtree). He also worked at eBay in San Francisco and at the Wall Street Journal online in digital media strategy. Originally from the United States, Martin now lives in Australia. Connect with Martin: LinkedIn: Martin Herbst on LinkedIn Website: JobAdder.com Connect with Mark: Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session Mark on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/markwhitby Follow on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

How does a professional touring musician go from the recording studio to building a $1.2M recruiting firm without ever making a single cold call? In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Justin Levinson, founder of Coming Up Creative, reveals how he blended creativity, authenticity, and smart systems to grow a seven-figure recruitment business serving the world’s top entertainment and gaming brands. Justin’s story is proof that success in recruitment isn’t about grinding harder - it’s about thinking differently. You’ll hear how he built a global team, automated outreach without losing the human touch, and turned every conversation into an opportunity. Listen to discover: How creative thinking helped Justin scale to $1.2M in billings The “anti-campaign” approach that fills his calendar with warm leads Why branding and design matter more in creative industries How to build trust, credibility, and inbound clients without cold calls The diversification strategy that kept his firm thriving through Hollywood strikes If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s possible to grow a high-performing recruiting business without endless prospecting, this episode is your blueprint. Connect with Justin Levinson LinkedIn: Justin Levinson Website: Coming Up Creative Connect with Mark Whitby FREE strategy session: www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session LinkedIn: Mark Whitby

The hardest part of business development isn't effort, it's consistency. Most recruiters know what to do, but struggle to do it every day while juggling clients, candidates, and placements. You know you should be reaching out to prospects daily, but between managing active searches, candidate interviews, and client meetings, your pipeline suffers. The solution? Build automated systems that generate leads while you focus on conversations that close deals. Giorgio Zanella is a go-to-market engineer who's built hundreds of automation workflows for recruiters and founders. Working out of Clay's New York office, he's spent three years mastering the platform and helping recruitment professionals scale their outbound without losing the personal touch. In this behind-the-scenes episode of The Resilient Recruiter, we break down the exact infrastructure, tools, and strategies you need to automate your outbound without sacrificing personalization or sounding like spam. This isn't theory. Giorgio has analyzed thousands of campaigns and knows exactly what separates automation that works from automation that gets ignored. You'll learn why Clay.com has become the number one platform for scaling outreach, how to choose the right tools for email and LinkedIn automation, what infrastructure you actually need (domains, inboxes, and warming protocols), and how to achieve 3-5% response rates on cold email when most people can't break 1%. We cover the complete tech stack: Clay for workflow automation and data enrichment, Instantly for email sequencing, HeyReach for LinkedIn automation, and how these tools work together to create synchronized multichannel campaigns. You'll discover how Clay's "waterfall enrichment" replaces expensive tools like ZoomInfo (saving you $15K+ per year), why LinkedIn outreach gets higher response rates than email (and its hidden limitations), and how to build email infrastructure that protects your domain reputation while scaling to hundreds of sends per day. Giorgio shares the exact formula for safe, sustainable outreach: 3-4 alternate domains, 2 inboxes per domain, 12-15 emails per inbox per day, and the two-week warming process you can't skip. He explains why most recruiters wreck their deliverability by sending from their main domain, how to set up synchronized campaigns where email, LinkedIn, and phone calls happen in coordinated sequences, and why relevance (right person, right time, right message) beats volume every single time. You'll learn what "good" response rates actually look like (spoiler: they're lower than you think, but the ROI is massive), how to calculate return on investment for cold outreach campaigns, and why even a 1% response rate can generate huge returns when your infrastructure costs are minimal. Giorgio breaks down why personalization and timing are more important than blast volume, how to track real-time signals like job changes and promotions to time your outreach perfectly, and the practical first steps to start automating your business development this month. This episode is part of our new course, Automate Your Outreach: How to Generate Client Leads Daily on Autopilot, a four-week implementation program where Mark and Giorgio guide you step-by-step through building your own automation system. Whether you're a solo recruiter trying to scale or an agency owner looking to systematize business development across your team, this conversation gives you the blueprint. Episode highlights: • [00:50] Introducing Giorgio Zanella and the vision behind the "Automate Your Outreach" program • [03:30] What is Clay and why recruiters are using it to automate lead generation • [07:35] The tech stack you actually need: Clay, Instantly, HeyReach (and what to skip) • [12:20] How to replace expensive data tools like ZoomInfo with Clay's "waterfall enrichment" • [18:40] Email vs. LinkedIn outreach: which gets more replies and why • [23:25] How to run synchronized multichannel campaigns (email + LinkedIn + phone) • [31:30] Why personalization and timing beat volume every time • [40:55] Building a bulletproof email infrastructure (domains, inboxes, warm-up rules) • [52:00] What "good" reply rates look like and how to calculate ROI on outreach • [1:10:00] Practical first steps to start automating your BD this month For more information or to register for the Automate Your Outreach course, visit recruitmentcoach.com/automate Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: http://www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Connect with Giorgio Zanella on LinkedIn Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Why do some recruiters struggle to break $300K while others hit seven figures in their third year? My guest, Tito Caceres, spotted a $160 billion industry that most recruiters have never even thought about. And he built a thriving business there with nothing but a credit card and relentless hustle. Tito grew up in his family's landscaping business and swore he'd never work in that industry. Ironically, that's exactly where he found his million-dollar niche. After building a career in sales and recruitment, he recognized an opportunity that others had completely missed. In 2021, he launched Bloom Talent Solutions and went all-in. First year? $600K in billings working solo with no agency pedigree. This year, he's on pace for $1.6 million. In this episode, you'll hear how Tito scaled fast by going retained-only, building a transparency system that keeps clients loyal, and creating new income sources beyond placement fees. You'll also hear why he fired clients to achieve clarity, how he packages candidates better than any resume ever could, and what it really takes to dominate a niche market. If you've ever wondered how far focus and follow-through can take a solo recruiter, this is your playbook. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: How Tito went from despising the landscaping industry to building a million-dollar recruiting business in it First year billings: $600K working solo with no pedigree Why Tito walked away from contingent work in year two (and never looked back) The transparency system that keeps clients coming back: weekly reports, bi-weekly meetings, and QBRs Performance sheets: the mandatory tool that packages candidates better than any resume How Tito built AI-driven recruiting systems that put him miles ahead of other recruiters The subscription model that turns relationships into reliable income before placement fees even come in Hiring misfires, family challenges, and the painful lessons that led to clarity Revenue share partnerships with industry consultants that generate referrals on autopilot CONNECT WITH TITO CACERES: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tito-caceres/ Bloom Talent Solutions: http://getbloomtalent.com RESOURCES MENTIONED: Clay.com Lemlist Recruitment Coach Live Summit Claire Ackers on LinkedIn CONNECT WITH MARK WHITBY: Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/ Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/ Mark on Twitter: https://twitter.com/markwhitby Mark on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRecruitmentCoach/ Mark on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/recruitmentcoach/ SUBSCRIBE TO THE RESILIENT RECRUITER This episode is a must-listen if you're ready to scale a high-profit, low-overhead search firm.

What if getting fired 20 times wasn’t failure, but the perfect preparation to build something meaningful? In this episode, recorded in London, I talk with James Rowe about what it really takes to build a six-figure solo recruitment practice without office rent, payroll, or management headaches. James shares how experienced recruiters can keep more of what they bill using smart systems, automation tools, and a resilient mindset. If you’ve ever thought about going solo or simplifying your business, you’ll get practical ideas you can apply right away. Timestamps 0:00 Intro 5:14 Getting fired 20+ times and discovering recruitment 13:15 From “terrible employee” to entrepreneur 14:01 The economics of solo recruiting 18:37 Why general recruiters struggle 24:33 Finding balance as a solo recruiter 29:02 Email and automation that work 40:54 Two email tweaks that boosted replies 20% 46:03 Lead magnets that convert at 50% 56:06 Why resilience and community matter most You’ll learn: How to structure your solo desk to scale without overhead The automation tools (Clay, ChatGPT, Phantom Buster) that win clients Why niche specialists thrive while generalists get squeezed The “Sent from my iPhone” follow-up trick that increases replies Why resilience and community matter more than talent The Resilient Recruiter brings you weekly conversations with top agency leaders, solo recruiters, and search-firm owners, hosted by Mark Whitby, coach and founder of RecruitmentCoach.com.

Most recruitment agency owners hit a wall around 10–20 people. The culture that made you successful starts to crack, and the personal touch gets lost. Nicholas Barton didn’t just avoid that wall he redefined what scaling could look like. From packing boxes in a warehouse to leading a 100-person global firm, Nicholas built The Barton Partnership into one of Forbes’ “World’s Best Management Consulting Firms,” with offices in London, New York, and Singapore. He built a platform before headcount, gave away 35% of his business through share options, and kept his early hires for nearly two decades. While competitors chased quick wins, Nicholas played the long game scaling internationally without losing the cohesion that made his business special. In this episode: [03:40] How Nicholas found his niche in strategy consulting [10:50] The “spray and pray” moment that launched his career [13:04] The hires who’ve stayed 18 years — and why [18:33] Why giving away 35% made his firm stronger [29:08] The “airport test” and how to hire for culture [35:20] Build your platform before you scale [1:04:42] Why great service always beats great selling 🎙️ Hosted by Mark Whitby, The Resilient Recruiter Podcast