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Liberated Learning

Author: Early Childhood Nerdwork

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Liberated Learning is a podcast that believes play is the space where children claim freedom, rehearse democracy, and exercise agency.  To stand for play is to stand against control. To guard children's right to play is to declare that their liberation matters, even in a world that insists otherwise. Each week, Kisa Marx and Mike Huber have a casual but passionate conversation about how they put these ideas into action with young children. They're talking about a revolution but it sounds like a whisper.

11 Episodes
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Liberating yourself starts with dreaming of what you want in the world. It’s not about ignoring the challenges but imagining a way through them. Kisa tells Mike about her writing process working on her new book, "We Are the Ones We’re Waiting For." Kisa and Mike both find that writing is less about coming up with new ideas and more about connecting the threads of the ideas that keep popping up.    Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
LL010 Small Is All

LL010 Small Is All

2026-03-0923:20

The first 1,800 days of life remind us that the micro shapes the macro. The smallest moments—how we respond, how we care, how we show up—matter more than we often realize.    On today’s episode, Mike (also known as Mildly Helpful Mike) and I talk about small steps toward the liberation of self and others, and what might be possible if we chose to show up in mildly helpful ways a little more often.  Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
LL009 Care and Cooperation  When we focus on our community of children and educators rather than each child as an isolated individual, we find an infinite number of ways children show up as a helper, speaking up for themselves and speaking up for others. Too often, the culture of early childhood education tries to foster “self-help skills” with the goal of independence. But most children show their “self-help” skills more readily when they use them to help others. In addition, when we foster care and cooperation in our early childhood communities, we foster cohesion as a group and a sense of agency and belonging in individuals.  What if we dared to make caring for one another visible by viewing our grand gestures through the lens of humanity?    On today’s episode, Mike and I unpack care and cooperation. We talk about avoiding performative acts of service — and why you should never be afraid to do good for others, even if it’s misunderstood.   Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
Liberated Educator Job # 1: Make it normal for each child to appreciate every other child. Create a space where everybody understands that everybody is different. Even in a homogenous space, everyone brings a different cultural context because culture is multi-faceted.  What if every child in a room that looks the same still saw their unique culture, identity, and experience as something to be celebrated — not just tolerated?    Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
LL007 Boys II Men

LL007 Boys II Men

2026-02-1619:59

What if we've been moralizing play in ways that quietly shape who gets to hold power later? What if we let children play the way they want to play? What if let each child learn about themselves by trying out multiple ways to play and ultimately, multiple ways to be in the world?    Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
LL006 Play is Play

LL006 Play is Play

2026-02-0924:37

There are so many neurotypical assumptions in the field of early childhood that cause many of us to see neurodivergent children through a deficit lens. Kisa and Mike wonder what would happen if we viewed these same children with a lens of curiosity and celebration. Some children may play differently than most children, but play is play.  Mike references the article Including Autism: Confronting Inequitable Practices in a Toddler Classroom by Emmanuelle N. Fincham and Amanda R. Fellner   https://educate.bankstreet.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1307&context=occasional-paper-series  You can hear Mike and Heather Bernt-Santy talk to the authors of the article on That Early Childhood Nerd, episode 221    Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
People of the global majority have to work twice as hard to be twice as good. Kisa shares how she can face people questioning her expertise and --to no surprise—Mike shares that he hasn’t been questioned in the same way even when someone disagrees with him. Kisa and Mike dig deep into cultural curiosity, expertise, and what it feels like to navigate learning spaces where your humanity is always up for debate. Tune in—and when you’re done, talk about it with your people.   *Mike references Playing with Nature: Supporting Preschoolers’ Creativity in Natural Outdoor Classrooms by Christine Kiewra and Ellen Veselack  chromeextension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1120194.pdf  Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
Having all the answers is a Eurocentric idea that is woven into the educational system. But we are better served with curiosity. When children play, they actively construct their knowledge. We should bring that same curiosity when working with children. Another shortcoming of the idea of having all the answers is that each of us sees the world through are unique cultural lens. Just because you have an answer doesn’t mean it is the same answer as someone else.  In the spirit of curiosity, Mike and Kisa share some of their own cultural identities and experiences that shape the way they look at the world. They end up with more questions than answers.  Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
LL003 What Has Value?

LL003 What Has Value?

2026-01-1923:57

Kisa and Mike reflect on the view of educators as people who bestow skills and knowledge on children and find it to be a dehumanizing practice. This practice creates a barrier to authentic relationships between everyone in the learning community, children and adults. This is especially true for the flibbertigibbets of the world who can be seen as a problem to solve rather than person to celebrate.  Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
Kisa starts with a story about a child bringing a big stick back from the park, but the conversation quickly pivots to the nature of freedom and exercising power over, for and with others. Later, Kisa says that she prefers taking the back roads rather than the highway. This conversation is proof.  Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/  Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness 
Kisa and Mike like to talk. In this first episode, you can listen in as they reflect on their journeys with young children. Unsurprisingly, the conversation starts with a reflection on words because changing the words you use, changes how you think about things and even, what you do.  Kisa can be found at The Playlab Foundation and Mike at Inclusion Includes Us, on Instagram and Facebook. Their books are available at https://www.redleafpress.org/ Theme music by John's Black Dirt https://johnsblackdirt.bandcamp.com/album/horrible-moments-of-upness  
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