Ending Human Trafficking

Dr. Kari Johnstone joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they discuss how traffickers adapt fast, moving money, victims, and exploitation through digital systems most of us interact with every day, examining whether our institutions are adapting fast enough to protect victims without them risking everything to testify.Dr. Kari JohnstoneDr. Kari Johnstone is the OSCE Special Representative and Co-ordinator for Combating Trafficking in Human Beings, representing the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe at the political level on human trafficking issues and coordinating anti-trafficking efforts across the OSCE region. Before joining the OSCE, Dr. Johnstone spent nearly a decade (2014-2023) as Senior Official, Acting Director, and Principal Deputy Director of the U.S. Department of State's Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons (J/TIP), where she advised senior leadership on global trafficking policy and programming and oversaw the annual Trafficking in Persons Report. Her extensive U.S. government service also includes senior roles in the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor. Dr. Johnstone holds a B.A. from the University of Michigan and a Ph.D. in Political Science from the University of California, Berkeley.Key PointsThe OSCE survey revealed a 17-fold increase in forced criminality cases over five years across the 57 member states, making it the fastest growing form of human trafficking globally.Forced scamming, which originated in Southeast Asia, is now being exported to other regions as criminals adopt this lucrative business model that exploits victims with brutal tactics to defraud others.Technology and artificial intelligence present both challenges and opportunities in combating trafficking, allowing law enforcement to process data more quickly to find victims and perpetrators while also being misused by traffickers for recruitment and exploitation.Financial intelligence and following the money can supplement or even replace victim testimony in prosecutions, reducing the burden on survivors and providing effective pathways to convict traffickers.The non-punishment principle remains woefully inadequate in practice worldwide, with victims often arrested, prosecuted, and convicted for crimes directly related to their trafficking experience, creating lifelong consequences that prevent access to housing, employment, and stability.The United States leads globally on criminal record relief for trafficking survivors, with 48-49 states having vacature or expungement laws and new federal legislation (Trafficking Survivor Relief Act) awaiting presidential signature, though much work remains worldwide.Victim assistance must be unlinked from the criminal justice process, allowing survivors to receive care and services first before deciding whether to cooperate with law enforcement, which actually increases the likelihood they will come forward and participate.The demographics of trafficking victims are shifting beyond stereotypes, with forced scamming targeting educated individuals with IT and language skills, while forced criminality increasingly exploits younger children, including those under age 10, for drug-related crimes and violence.ResourcesOrganization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE)OSCE Office of the Special Representative and Co-ordinator for Combating Trafficking in Human BeingsProtocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons (UN Palermo Protocol)UN Global Plan of Action to Combat Trafficking in PersonsU.S. State Department Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in PersonsTrafficking in Persons ReportTrafficking Survivors Relief ActEnding Human Trafficking PodcastTranscriptTranscript will be here when available.

Matthew Friedman joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore how pig butchering scams work, why they're so effective, and how they're tied to forced labor and human trafficking, while explaining what prevention can look like from personal red flags to safeguards in financial systems.Matthew FriedmanMatthew Friedman is the Founder and CEO of The Mekong Club, a pioneering organization that mobilizes the private sector to fight modern slavery across Asia. A globally recognized expert on human trafficking, Friedman has spent over three decades working at the intersection of business, government, and humanitarian action to combat exploitation and promote ethical leadership. Before founding The Mekong Club, Friedman served as Regional Project Manager for the United Nations International Project on Human Trafficking (UNIAP/UNDP), overseeing a six-country initiative spanning China, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam, and Thailand. He also served as Deputy Director for the USAID Office of Public Health (Asia Region), managing a $100 million annual portfolio. Friedman holds a Master's degree in Health Education from New York University and is a renowned keynote speaker who has delivered more than 900 presentations in 20 countries, inspiring individuals and organizations to take a stand in the fight against modern slavery.Key PointsPig butchering scams are sophisticated romance scams where criminals build trust over weeks before convincing victims to invest life savings in fake cryptocurrency schemes, with the metaphor referring to "fattening the pig before the slaughter."An estimated 300,000 to 400,000 young professionals have been trafficked into scam centers across Southeast Asia, where they are forced under extreme violence and coercion to run online scams targeting victims in wealthy nations.The Prince Group sanctions marked one of the most significant global crackdowns on forced-labor scam centers, with the UK freezing real estate assets and the US freezing $15 billion in cryptocurrency, signaling increased international cooperation.Financial institutions can help prevent pig butchering by monitoring unusual withdrawal patterns, such as when customers who haven't touched their accounts for 30 years suddenly liquidate everything, and by contacting clients before large transfers are completed.Victims in scam centers face brutal violence including being tasered, beaten, and in some cases tortured to death with videos sold as "hardcore" content, creating a level of violence unprecedented in modern slavery according to Friedman's 35 years of experience.Only 0.2% of the 50 million people in modern slavery receive assistance globally, not because counter-trafficking organizations don't care, but because the $236 billion generated by criminals vastly outweighs the $400 million available to fight it.Public education and awareness are critical for prevention, as people in North America remain largely unaware of pig butchering scams while Asian communities have become more informed through widespread media coverage and victim testimonies.The Mekong Club has developed multilingual e-learning tools including a three-and-a-half-minute video to help raise awareness about both human trafficking into scam centers and the scams themselves, emphasizing that prevention must be widespread.ResourcesThe Mekong ClubThe Mekong Club - Tools & ResourcesValid8 FinancialEnding Human Trafficking Podcast - Episode 269Matthew Friedman on LinkedInContact Matthew FriedmanEnding Human Trafficking Website

Brenton Fessler joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore why teenagers aren't hiding their digital lives because they're rebellious—they're hiding because they don't feel safe talking, and what trusted adults do next can change everything.Brenton FesslerBrenton Fessler is the Lead Pastor of Refuge OC Church in Orange County, California, where he provides vision and leadership for a growing faith community with a strong emphasis on family, discipleship, and community responsibility. With a background in youth ministry and ministry education, Brenton brings deep experience working with adolescents, parents, and church leaders navigating the complexities of formation, trust, and safety in a digital age. In addition to his pastoral leadership, Brenton has taught ministry-related courses and mentored emerging youth pastors, equipping them to build relationally healthy, developmentally appropriate, and ethically grounded ministry environments. As a parent of teenagers himself, he offers a practical, lived perspective on the challenges families face around technology, online identity formation, and risk exposure. Brenton's work reflects a prevention-first, relational approach rooted in grace, accountability, and collaboration between parents, churches, and broader community systems.Key PointsYouth pastors hold a unique position of trust with teenagers, making them critical partners in digital safety conversations, as students often confide in them before approaching parents about risky online behavior.The scaffolding metaphor illustrates healthy digital boundaries—parents and church leaders provide temporary support structures that can be removed as young people demonstrate increasing responsibility, rather than permanent fences.When a 14-year-old discloses risky online behavior, youth pastors should offer to walk alongside them in conversations with parents rather than protecting confidentiality at all costs, because these young people need adult guidance to navigate complex situations safely.Youth ministry should focus on spiritual formation and relationship building rather than behavior modification, creating environments where students feel safe to make mistakes and receive grace while learning to live righteously.Churches need to update child protection policies to include digital and virtual environments with the same rigor as physical spaces, including background checks that examine volunteers' online presence and social media activity.Youth pastors serve as cultural missionaries within church staffs, helping senior pastors understand emerging technologies, social media platforms, and the realities of youth culture that shape the next generation's spiritual development.The "talk tech every day" initiative from Ensure Justice emphasizes that digital safety conversations must be ongoing and integrated into daily family life, not reactive responses to scary news articles.Building cross-generational trust requires two-way mentoring where students teach adults about technology while adults provide wisdom and boundaries, creating healthy churches where both generations learn from each other.ResourcesInfluence Magazine Winter 2025 IssueEpisode 354: Love Bombs and Long Cons: Understanding Pig Butchering ScamsEnsure Justice ConferenceRoyal Family Kids CampRefuge OC ChurchTranscript[00:00:00] Brenton Fessler: The youth pastor decided that the best way forward was to actually call her up on stage and have her publicly announce her pregnancy so he could shame her as if behavior modification was gonna be the true path to her healing.[00:00:15] But[00:00:15] Delaney: Teenagers aren't hiding their digital lives because they're rebellious. They're hiding because they don't feel safe talking. What trusted adults do next can change everything. In this episode, you'll hear why talk tech every day matters. How to set guardrails without shame and what to do when a teen says, I can't tell my parents.[00:00:35] Hi, I'm Delaney. I'm a student here at Vanguard University and I help produce this show. Today, Sandie Talks with Dr. Brenton Fessler. He's the lead pastor of Refuge OC in Orange County with years of youth ministry experience and mentoring youth leaders focused on digital safety and trust building with teens.[00:00:54] Now here's their conversation.[00:00:57][00:01:03] Sandie Morgan: Reverend Dr. Brenton Fessler, welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast.[00:01:10] Brenton Fessler: Thank you, Sandie. It is so good to be with you and I'm delighted. I hope I can add to the conversation, but I'm really honored to be here.[00:01:18] Sandie Morgan: This isn't the way I usually do this, Brenton. But you read the article that they published in Influence Magazine under the youth pastor column, and the concern is digital safety for our kids.[00:01:35] So when you read that, did you have a question? Wow. If I could talk to Dr. Sandie Morgan. This is what I'd ask her.[00:01:45] Brenton Fessler: Ooh, that's a good point. No, I was captivated by the research right off the bat, mainly because in addition to being a pastor that obviously oversees a youth team that interacts with students in junior high and high school. I've got three teenagers in my house. One is about to turn 20 in just a few months.[00:02:02] But I care about this issue deeply because my wife, Rachel, and I are always thinking about where are they being exposed? And you said, so I just highlighted a few things from the article about how they're forming their identity in this online atmosphere in ways that parents don't fully understand or grasp the impact of that.[00:02:23] And I was blown away.[00:02:25] Sandie Morgan: It's difficult for parents to really, truly comprehend because we're not living in that context and we're all in the same house. Yet our challenges are very different. So, and for listeners, I'm gonna put a link to the article in the winter issue of Influence Magazine. So you'll be able to read this and maybe it'll raise some questions and.[00:02:57] I would recommend is you don't necessarily ask me because this is a foreign language for me as well. but talk to your teenagers. We've got to have daily, a couple years ago at Ensure Justice, what everybody was saying by the end of Saturday is talk tech. Every day. Not once a week, not when somebody reads a scary article, but talk tech every day.[00:03:29] Kids, you need to make sure your parents understand. You need to make sure your grandparents, wow, Brenton. If you wanna be concerned, go back and listen to the podcast I did about pig butchering, which is how AI is being used to fraudulently steal from your grandmother[00:03:56] and so grandkids you can have a trade-off day where grandkids, teach grandparents how to be safe online.[00:04:06] Brenton Fessler: Right. Oh, so true. So true. It's a scary world. And even as a parent, I think about the moments where we first dropped our kids off at school when they were in preschool, and we trusted them to this world that we no longer controlled. And it's the same way, even as teenagers, we give them these devices and in a lot of ways, they ...

Chris Simonsen joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore how communities can close the gap that makes young people vulnerable to trafficking—not with rescue mentalities, but with trauma-informed care, consistent relationships, and spaces where young people feel safe enough to stay. Chris Simonsen Chris Simonsen is the Chief Executive Officer of Orangewood Foundation, one of Orange County’s leading organizations serving youth who have experienced abuse, neglect, homelessness, and exploitation. With more than fifteen years at the helm and over three decades of executive leadership experience, Simonsen oversees a comprehensive continuum of care that includes housing, education, transitional support, wellness services, and specialized programs for youth who have been exploited or trafficked. Under his leadership, Orangewood has expanded its focus on intervention for children and Transitional Age Youth (TAY), emphasizing strategies that prevent revictimization, stabilize immediate crises, and strengthen long-term resilience. Simonsen’s leadership is shaped by a commitment to relationship-based, trauma-informed care and a theory of change rooted in the belief that consistent adult support, safe environments, and practical resources dramatically alter a young person’s trajectory. Key Points Orangewood Foundation made a strategic decision ten years ago to remove all labeling criteria for their programs, allowing them to serve any teen or young adult in need regardless of foster care status or county of residence, which caused the organization to grow from 40 to 250 employees. The number one priority when working with vulnerable youth is building a trusting relationship and creating a safe environment where they feel comfortable, which can take weeks or months before meaningful goal-setting work can begin. Young people without support structures are highly vulnerable to traffickers, and their trauma is so much more complex that Orangewood created dedicated programming including the Lighthouse transitional housing program and Project Choice drop-in center specifically for survivors and at-risk youth. Prevention work must address the developmental realities of youth who haven’t had long-term stability or supportive infrastructure, including implementing social-emotional support in schools through programs like advisory groups that stay together for four years. The role of loneliness and connection is critical—young people need to build their own communities and peer support networks, not just rely on organizational staff, to develop healthy relationships and long-term resilience. For those wanting to help, the most effective approach is to support existing trauma-informed organizations through volunteering, donations, or collaboration rather than starting new nonprofits, and to get educated on what human trafficking really is before attempting direct intervention. Schools need to dedicate more resources to the social-emotional aspects of teenagers’ lives, not just academics, and provide direct education to students about trafficking prevention at appropriate age levels without parental pushback. The Ending Human Trafficking Collaborative led by the Samueli Foundation exemplifies how community education and cross-sector partnerships can strengthen prevention efforts by bringing together experts and philanthropists to direct resources where they’re most needed. Resources Orangewood Foundation Samueli Academy Project Choice (Orangewood Foundation) Lighthouse Transitional Housing Program (Orangewood Foundation) Ending Human Trafficking Podcast Global Center for Women and Justice – Vanguard University Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force Samueli Foundation Transcript [00:00:00] Chris Simonsen: The number one thing we have to do initially with any of our young people is build a trusting relationship with them. [00:00:07] Make them feel comfortable. [00:00:09] Delaney: When young adults don’t have safe housing, trusted adults, or a sense of belonging, prevention fails and traffickers step in to fill that gap. This episode explores how communities can close the gap, not with rescue mentalities, but with trauma-informed care, consistent relationships and spaces where young people feel safe enough to stay. [00:00:30] You’ll hear why prevention often starts long before exploitation is visible, and how schools, nonprofits, and everyday adults can be a part of the solution. Hi, I’m Delaney. I’m a student here at Vanguard University and I help produce this show. Today, Sandie talks with Chris Simonsen, CEO of Orangewood Foundation about how supporting transitional age youth and building community-based responses can reduce vulnerability to trafficking. [00:00:57] And now here’s their conversation. [00:01:06] Sandie Morgan: Chris, I am so grateful to have you on the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. Welcome. [00:01:12] Chris Simonsen: Happy to join you, Sandie. It’s nice to be here. [00:01:16] Sandie Morgan: We have known each other a pretty long time, and I think one of the highlights in my career was when Orangewood and you in particular, gave me the Crystal Vision Award and I just want to do a thankful shout out for what that meant. So many of us have worked in this space for a long time, and we often do not stop to reflect on our achievements. [00:01:50] I have the feeling we need to find a way to give you that award. [00:01:56] Chris Simonsen: Well, who knows? Maybe that’ll happen someday after I’m retired. [00:02:00] Sandie Morgan: Oh, okay. Well we can’t let that happen too soon. So, let’s provide some context because we know each other well, but for our listeners here, what is the mission of Orangewood? [00:02:16] Chris Simonsen: Yeah, so Orangewood Foundation has been around actually 45 years, this year. And it started out with just one project, which was to collaborate with the county of Orange to build an emergency shelter for foster youth. At the time they had a facility, but it intermingled foster youth that were there on an emergency basis with probation youth. [00:02:41] And so it was quite confusing for these young children that were removed from their homes on a temporary basis to be mixed in with these other children that had committed crimes. So the director at the time, Bill Steiner, went to the county and said I’d like to create a separate facility to house these children that have been removed from their homes until we can find them a suitable placement. [00:03:07] So the county had a piece of land, but they didn’t have any funds to build the facility, so that’s when General William Lyon, who founded our organization, got involved and rallied the community to raise $8 million. And five years later they opened up the Orangewood Children’s Home and turned that over to the county to operate and run. [00:03:30] And they’ve been doing that ever since for the last 40 years. So then our board asked themselves, well, what more could we do? We’ve got all this momentum in the community and awareness around the challenges of foster care and child abuse that’s going on in the county. So they decided to start creating other programs. [00:03:52] And so we’ve been doing that over the last 4...

Priscilla Ward joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore how true healing happens not through fixing or rescuing, but by learning to sit in discomfort, lead with curiosity, and create consistent communities where survivors can feel safe enough to begin their journey at their own pace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFWfVaeCALg   Priscilla Ward Priscilla Ward, LCSW, is the Founder and Clinical Director of Compass Rose Psychotherapy in Fullerton, California. With over 18 years in the helping profession and 15 years of clinical experience, she has dedicated her career to supporting youth, young adults, and families through trauma, anxiety, substance use, and grief. A graduate of the University of Southern California with a Master’s in Social Work, Priscilla brings extensive experience from nonprofit agencies, community mental health clinics, correctional facilities, and school-based programs. She has led mental health teams for the Orange County Department of Education, developing trauma-responsive programs and training professionals in high-stress environments. Her bilingual Spanish fluency and cultural responsiveness make her a trusted ally across diverse communities. Beyond direct practice, Priscilla serves as a consultant and trainer, equipping educators, faith leaders, law enforcement personnel, and mental health professionals with trauma-informed, harm reduction, and motivational interviewing frameworks. Key Points People heal in community and relationship, not in isolation, and this healing process is rarely linear—it’s complex and messy, especially for those who have experienced trauma. The shift from “what’s wrong with this person” to “what happened to this person” is foundational to trauma-informed care and creates space for dignity and compassion over judgment. Harm reduction is a philosophy grounded in meeting people where they are, honoring their dignity even when they aren’t ready to stop certain behaviors, and recognizing that small steps matter because keeping people alive and safe creates opportunities for future healing. Faith communities can love people well by learning to sit in discomfort and resist the urge to fix or rescue, instead focusing on building belonging without requiring behavioral compliance as a prerequisite. Understanding the stages of change (pre-contemplation, contemplation, preparation, action, maintenance, and sometimes relapse) helps helpers meet survivors appropriately at each stage rather than imposing expectations they’re not ready for. Secondary trauma and burnout are real costs of caring, and taking care of our own wellness is critically important because we need to be healthy people in the room to truly serve others without reinforcing harm. Trust is the bridge for change, and consistency creates safety that literally rewires the brain—centering connection over correction leads to systemic change in how we support survivors. Listening to voices of lived experience is essential; helpers should ask “what do you need” rather than assuming they know what survivors need. Resources Compass Rose Psychotherapy Transcript [00:00:00] Priscilla Ward: what harm reduction looks like in my community might be very different than yours, but the spirit of harm reduction can be applied anywhere and everywhere. [00:00:11] Delaney: You know that uncomfortable space where things aren’t neat or solved, what if that’s where the real healing starts? Today’s conversation leans into that gray area. The space where our instinct to fix meets the deeper need to simply be present. [00:00:25] When we let go of control and step into curiosity, we make room for safety, dignity, and real connection. That kind of community can change everything. Hi, I’m Delaney Mininger. I’m a student here at Vanguard University and I help produce this show. Today, Sandy talks with Priscilla Ward, a licensed clinical social worker who trains faith leaders and community teams in trauma-informed care and harm reduction. [00:00:51] And now here’s their conversation. [00:00:53] [00:00:59] Sandie Morgan: Priscilla Ward, I am so excited to have you here at the ending Human Trafficking Podcast. Welcome. [00:01:08] Priscilla Ward: Thank you. I am very excited to be here. [00:01:11] Sandie Morgan: Well, you and I have served together on the Faith-Based Action Committee for our Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force for a very long time, and we’ve been having this conversation offline and decided it was time to bring it to the podcast. So let’s dive in. [00:01:34] Priscilla, you’ve spent nearly two decades helping individuals and families navigate trauma, anxiety, and loss. What have you learned about people and what they need most in their healing journey? [00:01:50] Priscilla Ward: Great, great and loaded question. I think probably the top thing that I have really taken away from all of the work that I’ve done is that people heal in community. We heal in relationship. Connection is a critical part of the process of the journey, but connection and relationship have a lot of complex elements that are required to really happen. And sometimes it doesn’t look linear. In fact, most of the time it’s not linear at all. It’s very complex. It’s very complicated, especially when we are truly serving those that have been through and are actively going through really challenging, traumatic, tragic things. [00:02:46] Sandie Morgan: So when you talk about healing happens in community, particularly in the faith-based community, we want to welcome in survivors of any kind of abuse. But we’re talking especially about human trafficking today and sometimes our faith communities have a lot of rules really that make the belonging piece a little challenging. [00:03:21] We have the belief piece in place. We all trust God, but the behavior to follow what the community sees as very standard and what is acceptable behavior. And so that kind of a community context for someone who is just starting to engage in a healing journey can be a very challenging circumstance for the survivor, the victim, and for those of us who have really good intentions. [00:04:11] So how can trauma informed practices move beyond therapy rooms and begin shaping our systems, our faith communities? Our schools, our correctional s...

Diana Mao joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore how economic empowerment serves as a frontline defense against human trafficking, revealing why desperation—not just deception—drives vulnerable families into exploitation. https://youtu.be/NLM4TP2d_lQ   Diana Mao Diana Mao is a dynamic leader at the forefront of the fight against human trafficking and workforce development. As the President and Co-Founder of Nomi Network, she’s helped raise and mobilize over 30 million dollars to create economic opportunities for survivors and women at risk. Her work has brought together corporate leaders, government agencies, and social impact partners to build pathways to freedom and stability. She’s a Presidential Leadership Scholar and a New York Academy of Medicine Fellow, and her innovative approach has earned her awards like the NYU Alumni Changemaker Award and the Texas Women’s Foundation Young Leader Award. She’s advised Congress on key policy issues, and her voice is regularly heard on some of the world’s biggest stages, including the United Nations, the Bush Presidential Center, and the Clinton Presidential Center. With degrees in Business Economics and Chinese from UC Santa Barbara and a Master’s in Public Administration from NYU Wagner, Diana blends academic rigor with hands-on leadership. Key Points Economic vulnerability drives trafficking more than deception alone—when families face starvation and earn less than 75 cents a day, they may knowingly take dangerous jobs because desperation outweighs risk assessment. Nomi Network operates 42 training sites across India, Cambodia, and the United States, providing trauma-informed workforce training, job placement, and micro-enterprise support that creates sustainable alternatives to exploitative labor. Building capacity within existing community organizations—rather than disqualifying partners who don’t meet predetermined standards—creates more sustainable and culturally contextualized anti-trafficking interventions. Living immersively in the communities being served allows organizations to co-design programs with survivors and understand the daily realities that shape vulnerability, from gathering water at 5 AM to facing harassment after 6 PM. Successful prevention requires creating bridges between vulnerable communities and the private sector, as demonstrated by Nomi Network’s partnerships with major employers like India’s largest manufacturers and Toyota subsidiaries that provide direct job pipelines. Youth in Dallas County’s detention system who complete Nomi Network’s apprenticeship programs secure jobs earning $18 per hour—more than double the minimum wage—fundamentally changing their economic trajectories and reducing trafficking vulnerability. The anti-trafficking movement is increasingly leveraging technology and AI as tools for prevention and intervention, recognizing that criminal networks are already using these technologies at exponential rates to target vulnerable populations. Self-care practices including morning exercise routines, faith-based reflection, and intentional rest enable sustained leadership in emotionally demanding anti-trafficking work, helping leaders operate from inspiration rather than obligation. Resources Nomi Network Invisible Children World Vision International Justice Mission (IJM) Hagar International Vanguard University Ending Human Trafficking Podcast Transcript [00:00:00] Diana Mao: And at the end of the survey he offered my male colleague, his youngest daughter, you like her, you take her. And as I looked into his eyes, I could see desperation and I didn’t even know what, if he knew what he was doing. [00:00:11] Delaney: When your children sleep on bare ground and you earn 75 cents a day, risk management isn’t just about losing your car. It’s about facing the decision to take a job that might cost you everything or watching your family starve. Today’s conversation is about why economic empowerment isn’t just a nice idea, but it’s a frontline of prevention. [00:00:32] Hi, I’m Delaney and I’m a student here at Vanguard University. I help produce this show. Today, Dr. Morgan talks with Diana Mao, president and co-founder of Nomi Network. Diana has mobilized over $30 million to create workforce pathways for survivors and at-risk women across 42 training sites in India, Cambodia, and the us. [00:00:53] And now here’s their conversation. [00:01:00] Sandie Morgan: I am so happy to be with you, Diana Mao Kelly for the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. Welcome. [00:01:10] Diana Mao: Thank you. It’s such a pleasure to be here this morning. [00:01:13] Sandie Morgan: I met you through the Public Private Partnership Advisory Council to end human trafficking. We were both presidential appointees and we served for two years. And part of that was during the pandemic, so we haven’t ever had a lot of in-person time, but I feel like I know you so well because of your very strategic contributions to the team during that season. [00:01:49] And I learned a little about your history during that time as I tried to get to know everybody on the council, and I was really struck by your heritage and how that impacted your personal mission formation. Can you talk a little bit about your family history? [00:02:14] Diana Mao: Yeah absolutely. I didn’t really discover family history really until after the fight against human trafficking. I started Nomi Network in 2009 and so over the course of time I learned more and more about some of the intergenerational trauma that my father faced. He was actually in labor camp. [00:02:36] so really all I knew was growing up in Southern California. Cause my parents had met and gotten married there, but he definitely has a lot of trauma and PTSD from that. And so more and more, as I researched labor camp, connected the dots with the issue I was fighting against human trafficking and what are some of the lingering effects of someone that is in slavery. [00:03:02] Sandie Morgan: And when did you learn about human trafficking? [00:03:07] Diana Mao: I learned about it actually in college. I know Sandie, you work with really bright and brilliant college students. so in college I learned about the issue of child soldiers in Northern Uganda through Invisible Children. And so as a young person, I was touched by their film and I started raising funds for Invisible Children and for World Vision. [00:03:36] At the time, they had children’s villages in some of these volatile areas, and so that’s when I first became aware of the issue of human trafficking. [00:03:45] Sandie Morgan: And you led, or you were part of a research trip in Cambodia. [00:03:51] Diana Mao: Yeah, so fast forward when I was in graduate school, getting my master’s, I learned more intensely the issue on the front lines. I was there working for a microfinance bank and during that time I was charged with meeting with microfinance clients, some of whom lived in very remote areas, where it would take an SUV, [00:04:16] a moped and walking through leech infested muck to get to the village. [00:04:22] Sandie Morgan: Ooh. [00:04:23] Diana Mao: The community was getting microfinance loa...

Michael Dominguez joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore how the hospitality industry can move beyond discomfort to become a powerful force in preventing human trafficking through intentional cultural change and staff empowerment. https://youtu.be/2kniCIaa21g   Michael Dominguez Michael Dominguez is the President and CEO of Associated Luxury Hotels International (ALHI), where he leads a global sales organization of nearly 80 professionals across 26 offices worldwide, serving as a trusted partner for meeting and event professionals seeking the best independent luxury properties and experiences. With over 30 years of experience in luxury meetings and events, Michael holds the Certified Hospitality Sales Executive (CHSE) credential and has earned multiple accolades for his leadership. He is an active and influential member of several industry associations, including serving as Past Chairman of Meeting Professionals International’s (MPI) International Board and co-chairing Meetings Mean Business. Michael has been recognized among the “Top 25 Most Influential People in the Meetings Industry” and “50 Most Influential Hispanics in the U.S.” In 2025, he received the ASAE Global Association Visionary Award. Under his leadership, ALHI has become a leader in anti-trafficking efforts within the hospitality industry, earning the Freedom Award for their commitment to this cause. Key Points The hospitality industry lost critical ground during the pandemic when hotels shifted to mobile check-in and bypassed front desks, which had been a primary checkpoint for identifying potential trafficking situations. Training hotel staff to recognize trafficking signs includes looking for unusual requests like multiple room keys, excessive towels and linens, extended “do not disturb” signs beyond 24 hours, and implementing wellness checks within that timeframe. Major hotel brands and management companies are now required to participate in American Hotel Lodging Association’s accredited training programs, though franchise owners and smaller independent properties remain gaps in universal coverage. Making people “uncomfortable for 10 minutes” at every opportunity is essential because the hospitality industry naturally avoids discussing difficult topics, yet this intentional discomfort drives cultural change and awareness. Personal storytelling that puts a human face to trafficking—such as sharing survivor Faith Ramos’s story—creates deeper impact than statistics alone and motivates 80% of people to ask how they can help. The “pounding the rock” philosophy from the San Antonio Spurs—asking daily “are we better today than yesterday?”—provides a framework for sustained, incremental progress in anti-trafficking efforts across the industry. Collaboration is expanding beyond hotels to include clients, electrical companies adding hotline information to service trucks, and organizations like the Aruna Project that employ survivors, demonstrating how every sector can play a position in the broader movement. AI technology offers hope for identifying trafficking patterns by analyzing unusual service requests and alerting staff to abnormal frequency of activities that might otherwise go unnoticed in large hotels. Resources Episode 352 – Empowering Change: Holding Hotels Accountable for Trafficking Spurs Video – “A Beautiful Game” Transcript [00:00:00] Michael Dominguez: One thing I promised is, I promise you I’m gonna make people uncomfortable, at least for 10 minutes at every opportunity I can. [00:00:06] Delaney Mininger: Every hotel is either part of the prevention network or a gap that traffickers exploit. And the signs are there, multiple room keys, extra towels, privacy signs that are up for days. And when COVID removed their front desk check-in, they lost their most important checkpoint. [00:00:22] Leaders like Michael are showing us how to rebuild it and make it stronger. Hi, I’m Delaney Mininger, a student here at Vanguard University and I help produce the show. Our guest today is Michael Dominguez and he will be speaking with Sandra Morgan. Michael is the president and CEO of Associated Luxury Hotels International, the Freedom Award recipient, and he’s leading his industry’s fight against trafficking with intentional cultural change, and now here’s their conversation. [00:00:56] Sandie Morgan: I am here with Michael Dominguez, president and CEO of Associated Luxury Hotels International. Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. [00:01:09] Michael Dominguez: Thank you so much, and thank you for the invite. It’s excited to be here. [00:01:13] Sandie Morgan: Well, and people usually expect my experts to be from law enforcement, aftercare, prevention, but you are very unique. And the first time I met you, was on Zoom. We haven’t met in person, but we’re looking forward to making that happen. I saw the Spurs jersey in the background in your office, and can you tell me why that’s there? Cause it made so much sense to so much of what we’re doing. [00:01:50] Michael Dominguez: Without a doubt. And, I’ve mentioned that, you know, first and foremost I was born and raised in San Antonio. So there’s the connection to the Spurs. But, the Spurs have been an organization that has been literally featured and studied around their culture. And the reason that matters is it’s, yeah, the basketball and what they’ve done on the court and their wins and their championships and the most winning franchise over a 30 year window. [00:02:15] Yeah, all that matters. But the important part is their culture and their culture and how it’s built and how it’s maintained. You know, it’s amazing that they’ve been in the league over 50 years and they’ve only missed the playoffs nine times. Ever. [00:02:30] Sandie Morgan: Wow. [00:02:31] Michael Dominguez: And it’s that kind of measure of success that they’ll tell you the culture is special. They’re a small market team. You know, they’re not LA, they’re not New York, it’s San Antonio. And, and yet they’re so successful and their culture is all built around respect and people. You know, there’s a book that everybody that comes into our organization gets a book called, Culture Code by Daniel Coyle. [00:02:55] And it’s in a, it’s a study of organizations that do culture really well and that are really unique and, you know, Navy Seal Team Six is in there, as well as about 30 pages dedicated to the San Antonio Spurs. And, and it talks about their culture and how it’s put together and how thoughtful everything is. [00:03:15] Everybody who comes into our organization, they actually get a rock. And this rock has a story on it and it’s kind of our mantra and very much Sandie kind of applies to the work that is being done around trafficking. And the mantra is very simple and, I had the privilege of being able to go see their locker room. [00:03:33] It’s the only thing in the Spurs locker room. The mantra is a story by a 1920s immigrant rights activist named Jacob Reese. The story simply says, when all hope fails, I think of a stone cutter hammering away at a stone more than a hundred times with no success. And on the hundred first strike, the stone splits, and I know it’s a hundred strikes before that split the stone. [00:03:55] and the mantra of the Spurs is we’re just pounding the rock. The rock is our mantra here at ALHI and pounding the rock is a very simple way to live. Where are we better today than we are yesterday? And if we are, we hit another, we’ve hit the rock one ...

Clayton Cranford joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they discuss how children need trusted adults who explicitly tell them that if something goes wrong online, it’s going to be okay—because what predators exploit most is a child’s fear of reaching out for help. https://youtu.be/1t42r59-nIE   Clayton Cranford Clayton Cranford is a former Orange County Sheriff’s Department Sergeant, school resource officer, and juvenile investigator with specialized expertise in behavioral threat assessment and online safety. He is the founder of Cyber Safety Cop, a program dedicated to educating parents, schools, and communities about how digital platforms can expose children to exploitation, grooming, and trafficking risks. With over 20 years in law enforcement and years working directly with youth and families, Cranford has trained tens of thousands of parents and educators nationwide on digital parenting strategies, social media risks, and emerging threats such as sextortion, encrypted apps, and AI-generated content. He is the author of Parenting in a Digital World and a recognized speaker at major school safety and cybersecurity conferences. His work aligns closely with prevention-first strategies and community collaboration, making him a valuable voice in the intersection of technology, youth safety, and anti-trafficking efforts. Key Points Boys are disproportionately targeted for financial sextortion schemes where predators impersonate young girls, quickly establish relationships through unsolicited images, and then extort victims for thousands of dollars, sometimes leading to tragic outcomes within hours. Online predators use sophisticated grooming tactics on girls over weeks and months, often employing multiple fake personas to build trust before exploiting victims through threats of exposing images to friends and family, creating a cycle of exploitation that can last for years. Parents must explicitly tell their children that no matter how embarrassed they are or how serious the situation seems, nothing will stop their love and support—because what children know intellectually about online safety often doesn’t align with their emotional responses in the moment. AI companion apps have become widely adopted by teens, with nearly three-quarters having tried them and half using them regularly, yet these apps lack regulation, age verification, and safeguards against encouraging self-harm or creating unhealthy parasocial relationships. School resource officers serve as crucial intervention points not for enforcement but for building trusted relationships where students feel comfortable reporting concerns about peers or seeking help before situations escalate to emergencies. The rapid adoption of smartphones from less than 20% to over 80% of teens in just three years created a gap where parents handed their children powerful devices without understanding the risks of platforms like Snapchat and Discord that facilitate anonymous contact and exploitation. Prevention requires parents to understand how apps work, implement age-appropriate monitoring tools, ensure notification requirements for app downloads, and have concrete plans with their children about who to contact if something goes wrong online. Legislative action is urgently needed to require age verification, transparency about AI safeguards, and regulation of technologies being rapidly deployed to children without adequate study of downstream mental health and safety impacts. Resources Cyber Safety Cop website and resources Transcript [00:00:00] Clayton Cranford: parents had no idea what they were, what they were kind of getting themselves into when they handed their kid a phone. [00:00:06] Sandie Morgan: She calls her tattoo sleeves “armor,” covering years of scars from predators who convinced her they were her friends, when what she really needed was one trusted adult. And that’s what your kids need too. Someone who says explicitly, if this happens, it’s going to be okay. [00:00:31] I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan with Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice. And my guest today is Clayton Cranford. He’s a former school resource officer, juvenile investigator, father of two, and founder of Cyber Safety Cop teaching parents and students how to stay safe online. Now here’s our conversation. [00:01:05] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast, Clay. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen you. I still remember when your mother introduced me to you. [00:01:17] Clayton Cranford: That must have been a while. Yeah, that was a while ago. [00:01:19] Sandie Morgan: at that point, I, I just promoted out of, I was a school resource officer, just promoted to the school threat assessment team. [00:01:27] Clayton Cranford: and a lot is, you know, a lot’s happened since then. [00:01:29] Sandie Morgan: Well, and your book is like the fourth edition now. [00:01:34] Clayton Cranford: Yeah, I just updated the, this summer and it was actually a complete rewrite. It was, I, I really considered just calling it a new book, but I’m like, you know what? I like, I like the name of my book. And it is, parenting in the digital world, and I’ve read a lot. I mean, I collect all the books that people are writing on this, on this topic, helping parents, parent their child to digital world. and I just felt like, I think parents need a little deeper insight of what, what actually is going on. Talking about things like ai, some new emerging things, and, more importantly, you know, parents, if they want to dig in really deep, I, I really kind of. [00:02:14] Get way under, like what’s actually happening. Like what is the, the title forces, behind this technology and, and, and how it’s changing our kids, but also then making it very simple and saying, Hey, these are the, these are the conversations you need to have, and these are the things you should start doing. [00:02:31] And so before we started the show, we were reminiscing. And you mentioned you started off when we were at the iPhone four. [00:02:45] Sandie Morgan: So do a a capsule time capsule for us. How old were your kids? What have you experienced as a parent going from a flip phone to where we are today? [00:03:00] Clayton Cranford: Yeah. So, original iPhone comes out in 2007, the iPhone four in 2010, which had the first forward facing camera on an iPhone. And at that time, less than 20% of teens had smartphones. They all had the flip phone, they had like the razor phone, stuff like that. and then over the course of like two or three years, and this is when I was working as a school resource officer in retro center Margarita, I had 14,000 students, nine schools in that city. [00:03:28] We went from less than 20% having smartphones. In about three years, we had more than 80%. So it was this huge uptake. And parents had no idea what they were, what they were kind of getting themselves into when they handed their kid a phone. Dealing with all the issues and everything from, you know, just being hurtful things happening, which, is to be expected, I guess, when kids are on these screens. [00:03:51] But a lot of other things like sexting, sextortion, sexual exploitation, threats. When I was on the threat assessment team, most of our, most of our threats at schools were happening online. and it’s, figuring out, so we, I talked to BMI instructors. We talked to students K through 12 at schools all over the United States, but mostly here in Southern California. [00:04:12] Although kids know like what is safe and not safe, but then at the same time to make bad choices online, really kind of understanding why this,...

Dr. Douglas Gilmer joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they explore how 30 years of carrying the memory of arresting a child who needed help, not handcuffs, drove his commitment to building true collaboration in anti-trafficking work. https://youtu.be/rAcXKRUkS68   Dr. Douglas Gilmer Dr. Douglas Gilmer is a 35-year law enforcement veteran and proud military veteran who retired from the Department of Homeland Security and Homeland Security Investigations in August 2024 after 25 years of federal service. In his final role, he served as Senior Law Enforcement Advisor at the DHS Center for Countering Human Trafficking in Washington, DC. His journey in this field began in 1993 when, as a Charlotte police officer, he encountered a 14-year-old girl being sold for sex. Throughout his federal career, Doug worked and supervised numerous human trafficking cases involving both sex and labor trafficking, domestic and international victims, and adults and minors. He also served as Chief of the Human Rights Violators and War Crimes Center. After retiring, Doug founded Resolved Strategies LLC, a global justice solutions group dedicated to building collaborations and developing solutions to counter human trafficking. He holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership, with research focused on multidisciplinary collaboration in anti-trafficking work. In January 2025, Doug received the William Wilberforce Lifetime Achievement Award. Key Points Dr. Gilmer’s research on multidisciplinary teams revealed that the MDT construct is being widely adopted because the old ways of responding to trafficking simply didn’t work, and both law enforcement and service providers report more positive attitudes toward each other than commonly assumed. Many social workers are taught in school and by veteran colleagues not to trust law enforcement, creating initial skepticism that dissolves once they experience collaborative work and realize officers genuinely care about victims and wouldn’t stay in this demanding field otherwise. The distinction between cooperation and collaboration is critical: cooperation involves helping someone achieve their goal with selfish motivation (“I” or “me”), while true collaboration means working together toward shared goals where your mission becomes mine and mine becomes yours (“we”). Law enforcement agencies are shifting their metrics of success, with HSI agents now receiving the same recognition for identifying and recovering a victim as they do for making an arrest, reflecting a genuinely victim-centered approach. Human trafficking should be approached as a “crime of crimes” with multiple prosecution pathways including money laundering, child sexual abuse material, and other charges that can achieve justice while protecting victims from the retraumatization of testifying. After 30 years of carrying guilt over arresting a 14-year-old trafficking victim in 1993, Dr. Gilmer found closure when a survivor told him at a conference: “You have to learn to forgive yourself for the things you did before you knew better.” The current funding and grant process for anti-trafficking work fosters competition between organizations rather than collaboration, creating a system where groups work against each other instead of for each other despite shared goals. Years later, a 16-year-old victim told Dr. Gilmer that after being trafficked since age 13, his response was “the first time law enforcement has ever tried to help me,” illustrating how far the field has progressed in adopting trauma-informed, victim-centered approaches. Resources Resolve Strategies Transcript [00:00:00] Douglas Gilmer: I can remember handcuffing her, putting her in the back of my patrol car, thinking to myself, if this is the best we can do, why are we doing this? [00:00:15] Sandie Morgan: Our guest today was driven by 30 years of carrying the memory of arresting a child who needed help, not handcuffs. I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan with Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice, and our guest today is Dr. Doug Gilmer. He’s a 35 year law enforcement veteran, recently retired from Homeland Security Investigations and now leads Resolved Strategies. [00:00:51] His focus is on building true collaboration in anti-trafficking work. Now, here’s our conversation. [00:01:06] Alright, Dr. Doug Gilmer, thank you so much for joining us on the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. [00:01:15] Douglas Gilmer: Thank you so much. [00:01:17] Sandie Morgan: I’m excited because when I first met you, you were in HSI, but you wanted to have side conversations, and we started talking about the research you wanted to do as you were pursuing your PhD. And so let’s start there. Why did you wanna interview me? [00:01:41] Douglas Gilmer: Well, I had, I had long been a fan [00:01:47] Sandie Morgan: Okay. I can have fans. [00:01:50] Douglas Gilmer: of Dr. Morgan and was very aware of the work that you had done, and I knew that collaboration was very important to you. It was, it was evident in your work and it was evident in the work that the task force did, you know, that you helped to lead. And so you were, you were really kind of a natural fit for this project. I figured if, considering your experience and really your tenure in this field, I just knew that you would be a great, a great resource and really an expert. [00:02:25] Sandie Morgan: I’m gonna borrow that language instead of presenting myself as old an old timer in this field. I now have tenure in this field. That’s much better. So just really quickly, the highlights of your findings in that research. Can you give us a synopsis? [00:02:47] Douglas Gilmer: Yeah, so really the research focused, it was qualitative research, focused on the outcomes of multidisciplinary collaboration between law enforcement and service providers encountering human trafficking. What we learned through the research is that the multidisciplinary team construct, the MDT construct, works, that people were adopting the MDT construct because the old way of doing things didn’t work, and it was proving to be more effective. We learned that contrary to what we sometimes hear, law enforcement generally has a very positive attitude towards service providers, and that service providers actually have a positive attitude or a positive opinion of law enforcement. [00:03:42] Sandie Morgan: Well hold up there because I wanna know why the myths still exists, that they’re opposing forces sometimes. [00:03:53] Douglas Gilmer: Well, I think law enforcement comes from a slightly different mindset. We’re very skeptical [00:04:02] Sandie Morgan: Mm-hmm. [00:04:02] Douglas Gilmer: early on until we get to know somebody, until we learn to trust people. And then there was a theme that developed when talking to service providers, especially those who had degrees in social work that were, you know, licensed clinical social work workers, LMSW, that kind of thing. And what they shared was that they were really kind of taught from the beginning not to trust law enforcement when they were in school. They were told, don’t trust law enforcement. You can’t trust law enforcement. They don’t care about you. They don’t care about your clients. All they care about is making a case. And then when they got out and they went to work and they were being trained, the veterans were telling them, you can’t trust law enforcement. Don’t trust law enforcement. They don’t care about you. They don’t care about your clien...

Carissa Phelps joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they discuss an unprecedented opportunity for trafficking survivors to access $215 million in remission funds from the Backpage settlement, with a critical February 2026 deadline that could finally put survivors ahead of their traffickers for the first time in movement history. https://youtu.be/5XfS9sZG7-8   Carissa Phelps Carissa Phelps is a licensed attorney, author, and survivor advocate who founded Runaway Girl, Inc., a social purpose corporation providing survivor-led experiential trainings nationwide. She earned both a Juris Doctor and MBA from UCLA in 2007 and holds a B.A. in Mathematics from California State University, Fresno. As a pioneer in survivor-led advocacy, Carissa has spent nearly two decades empowering communities and amplifying survivor voices through innovative strategies. She is the author of the acclaimed memoir “Runaway Girl: Escaping Life on the Streets, One Helping Hand at a Time” and co-producer of the award-winning documentary “Carissa,” both powerful tools used worldwide for education and training on child exploitation and trafficking. Key Points The Backpage remission fund represents $215 million available to trafficking survivors who were exploited on Backpage.com (2004-2018) and CityXGuide.com (2018-2020), marking the largest victim compensation fund in trafficking history. Unlike previous restitution processes that required court appearances, this remission process uses a third-party administrator, removing the traumatic requirement for survivors to face their traffickers in court. The February 2, 2026 deadline creates urgency for outreach, as many survivors remain unaware of this opportunity and the application process requires documentation of trafficking and economic losses. Survivors First community was formed as a working group under Love Never Fails Us to conduct weekly webinars, provide step-by-step guidance, and connect survivors with pro bono legal assistance and medical providers. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) has partnered with over 15 major law firms to provide free, trauma-informed legal representation to help survivors navigate the application process. Economic losses are calculated at federal minimum wage for a 40-hour work week during the trafficking period, though survivors can request higher amounts with proper documentation of different wages or hours. This funding opportunity represents a chance for the anti-trafficking movement to get ahead of traffickers for the first time, particularly as new technologies like Web3 and blockchain create new frontiers for both exploitation and prevention. Resources 19 – Runaway Girl Survivor’s First Community Backpage Survivor Remission Network Transcript [00:00:00] Carissa Phelps: For the first time, for the first time in the history of this movement, we have an opportunity to get ahead of traffickers. [00:00:08] Sandie Morgan: Right now, $215 million is waiting for trafficking survivors. This is money that most survivors don’t even know exists. The deadline is February 2nd, 2026. The legal system is finally learned from mistakes. There’s no court required here. Victims don’t have to face their traffickers to apply for this funding. It’s a pathway to justice. [00:00:45] I am Dr. Sandie Morgan from the Global Center for Women and Justice at Vanguard University. And my guest is Carissa Phelps. [00:00:57] She’s an attorney, a survivor advocate, founder of Runaway Girl Inc. And she is leading the charge to connect survivors with the Backpage remission fund. Let’s join our conversation. [00:01:16] [00:01:22] Sandie Morgan: Okay, so Carissa Phelps, welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. I have looked back at our history, and the last time you were here was 14 years ago. [00:01:37] Carissa Phelps: Oh my goodness. [00:01:38] Sandie Morgan: Wow. Listeners, if you wanna hear that interview, it’s number 19. So welcome Carissa. [00:01:46] Carissa Phelps: Thank you. Thank you, Sandie. Thanks for [00:01:48] Sandie Morgan: having me on. [00:01:49] So what have you been doing since we talked last? [00:01:53] Carissa Phelps: So, catching up, I guess. I mean that’s over a decade of work, but we built Runaway Girl as a flexible purpose corporation, so a social purpose corporation. We went out with full force. We had. Prop 35 in that timeframe to come out with a historic support for, more penalties for trafficking that saw increased prosecutions for sex trafficking, especially of minors. [00:02:18] And we’ve been in a uphill battle in terms of getting survivors into leadership positions. But that’s happening now more and more. It’s expected for survivors to not just be at the table or in the room or subject of the conversation, but to be part of the conversation in developing services and reaching victims where they’re at, and survivors where they’re at. [00:02:43] And so this has been, it’s been an exciting decade and a half. [00:02:47] Sandie Morgan: Wow. And I just am happy to report to you that the very first human trafficking victim rescued in Orange County, Shyima Hall, who was an Egyptian child, made in an upscale neighborhood, is now serving on the Global Center for Women in Justice Advisory Board. [00:03:11] Yeah, so we’re trying to practice what you are teaching us as a leading survivor advocate. So I got really excited a couple weeks ago when I saw your post about NCMEC remission, and when we’re talking about survivor-centered justice, why is that important? And for listeners just joining this conversation, NCMEC is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. [00:03:45] Carissa Phelps: So I did, I posted, my friends at NCMEC National Center for Missing Exploited Children are doing something similar to what we’ll talk about with survivors first, but we are all trying to respond to this Backpage remission, which is an historic amount of funds [00:04:01] available for survivors of trafficking that were trafficked over 20 years ago, some of them, from 2004 when Backpage was prominent, to 2018, 2004 to 2018, when backpage.com existed and served traffickers really and served buyers and. [00:04:22] Was a means of exploiting victims, rampantly all over our country, all over the world, really all over the globe. And so there were so many victims out of that website. It was finally shut down, with the help of Maggie Krell, who was at the Attorney General’s office in California and others in US Attorney in Arizona, Kevin Rapp, and like there, there were so many people that stepped up to the plate to say this was wrong. [00:04:46] this went even beyond maybe what Craigslist was doing in terms of, just, uh, catering to traffickers in, in what they were posting. So they were, assets were seized in that effort and those assets are now available to victims of trafficking. There was a settlement reached in 2024 with the company, and so some of the funds did go back to the company owners and so that that can be resolved in civil suits and other ways. [00:05:15] But this 215 million has been made available in a victim restitution fund. For victims to come forward to show that they have losses, economic losses, so lost wages, lost time that they could have been working or doing something else when they were being trafficked. And also medical costs and o...

Erin West joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they uncover why that random text asking “Can you come for ribs?” might be the opening move in a $5 billion crime operation targeting vulnerable people through sophisticated romance and investment scams known as pig butchering. Erin West Erin West is a globally recognized expert in transnational organized crime and the founder and president of Operation Shamrock, a nonprofit uniting law enforcement, industry, and everyday citizens to disrupt pig butchering scams—the world’s fastest-growing form of transnational organized crime. After 26 years as a prosecutor, including eight years on the REACT High-Tech Task Force where she became known for her relentless pursuit of cryptocurrency-enabled criminals, Erin retired to launch this cross-border fight to expose the scam economy and protect both victims and the trafficked workers forced to run these schemes. She is also the host of “Stolen,” a podcast that takes listeners inside the darkest corners of the scamdemic, where love is weaponized and billions are laundered. As a sought-after international speaker and educator, Erin continues to equip audiences worldwide to use their skills and platforms to fight back against these sophisticated criminal enterprises. Key Points Pig butchering scams are long cons that can last up to four months, involving four hours of daily texting to build the relationship victims have always wanted before stealing their life savings. Chinese organized criminals created this crime model by repurposing casino towers in Southeast Asia during COVID, literally translating “pig butchering” as fattening up victims with love bombing before cutting their throats financially. The scams begin with seemingly innocent outreach through wrong number texts, LinkedIn connections, or social media befriending, then quickly move to encrypted platforms like WhatsApp to conduct criminal activity without oversight. Hundreds of thousands of people from Africa, Bangladesh, and Pakistan are being trafficked to Southeast Asia under false job promises, then forced to work 16 hours a day running these scams under threat of violence. Victims of forced criminality face arrest and detention when compounds are raided because they’re treated as criminals rather than trafficking victims, creating a massive repatriation crisis. The scale of this crime is unprecedented, with victims reporting losses of $4.9 billion in 2024 alone, representing a generation’s worth of stolen wealth from retirement and college savings accounts. End-to-end encryption, while protective for legitimate users, is weaponized by criminals to conduct relationships and transactions away from law enforcement visibility. Effective response requires unprecedented cross-sector collaboration between banking, law enforcement, cryptocurrency platforms, diplomacy, victim assistance, and NGOs working together rather than in silos. Resources 351 – Hidden Crimes: Fraud and its Impact on Vulnerable Communities Operation Shamrock Stolen Podcast Transcript [00:00:00] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast here at Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan, and this is the show where we empower you to study the issue, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. [00:00:23] Today, we’ll discover why that random text asking “Can you come for ribs?” might be the opening move in a $5 billion crime operation [00:00:36] I’m joined today by Erin West, founder and president of Operation Shamrock, and former prosecutor who spent 26 and a half years. Fighting high tech crimes. And now here’s our interview. [00:00:53] [00:00:54] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the podcast Erin West. I am so delighted to meet you. [00:01:02] Erin West: Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I’m delighted to be here. [00:01:05] Sandie Morgan: It was really interesting. [00:01:07] Debbie Deem, who was on episode 351, mentioned you and she mentioned you in her context talking about pig butchering, and she had my full attention right away. And then she talked about your nonprofit. So, at the top of this interview, I wanna frame everything with what you are doing with Operation Shamrock. [00:01:37] Somehow my imagination took me to Ireland, so, tell us what that is. [00:01:44] Erin West: Sure. So I was a prosecutor for 26 and a half years, and the last three years of my career I was deluged with victims of a certain type of crime known as pig butchering. It’s a long con, it is a romance slash investment scam. And what I was seeing was that we had never seen anything like this before, we’d never seen a scale like this, and ultimately, my passion for trying to do something about it made me realize that I needed to leave my career, retire from being a prosecutor and open a nonprofit. [00:02:26] At Operation Shamrock, our mission is to educate about, mobilize against and disrupt transnational organized crime. The, the Chinese organized criminals that are, that are running this horrible crime. And so that’s what we do. [00:02:41] Sandie Morgan: So what is a long con? [00:02:44] Erin West: Yeah. You know, I think that, and a good example of a short con would be those calls that you get where you are led to believe that, your, your grandchild is in custody somewhere and you need to go put money in an ATM real quick. That’s a, that’s a deceptive trick. [00:03:01] Sandie Morgan: oh, I got a text, I got a text yesterday that said, mom, I lost my phone. Text me at this number. [00:03:12] Erin West: Yeah, [00:03:13] Sandie Morgan: like, ah, [00:03:15] Erin West: Ugh. That’s, and the fact that that happened to you yesterday shows how ubiquitous these crimes are. So, so when you ask about a long con, a long con is something where, oh my gosh. And I just got a text right now. That says hello. I’m Sophia from the Indeed Human Resources Team. We recently came across your outstanding resume. [00:03:39] That’s a job scam and it’s happening. That’s, that’s how frequently this is happening. So the long con is, is when you get one of those texts that says, Hey, I’m making ribs tonight. Can you come over and you say, oh, I think you have the wrong number. And then you start a, what can be up to four months of a relationship with someone that you met in a very random way on the internet. [00:04:03] These bad actors have tried and true techniques that they use to lure you into believing that you are in a legitimate relationship and it’s the kind of relationship that you’ve always wanted. [00:04:16] Sandie Morgan: Hmm. So I’ve done so much work in the youth prevention field, and we always call that like the Romeo Pimp, the Romance Con, those kinds of things. [00:04:31] And so those kids don’t have any big money. So why is this happening? [00:04:37] Erin West: I’ll say that the enemy is so sophisticated that they are attacking every, every demographic. And so they have, we’ve recently found out that sextortion is coming out of the very same compounds that are doing these long cons, and the enemy is willing to do anything to make, to make money. So the short amount of time it takes to get some money out ...

Dr. Beth Lorance joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as they discover how a high school coach gave one of his players expensive gifts, things her mother had refused to buy, with the mom posting online asking what to do, not realizing she was witnessing grooming behavior that creates the same vulnerabilities traffickers exploit in trusted spaces throughout our communities. Dr. Beth Lorance Dr. Beth Lorance is an adjunct professor at Vanguard University, where she teaches Family Violence and has also taught Introduction to Psychology and Psychology of the Family. She earned her PsyD in Clinical Psychology and previously served as the director of Vanguard’s counseling center. In addition to her academic background, Beth is a licensed minister with the Assemblies of God, which allows her to bring both psychological expertise and theological insight into conversations about abuse, trauma, and healing. Her passion is deeply personal, rooted in her own family history of child sexual abuse, and she is committed to equipping others to use their voices to prevent abuse, protect the vulnerable, and walk alongside survivors. Beth also works to bring awareness into the church, encouraging faith communities to reflect Jesus’ response to victims and to take seriously the call to protect those who are most vulnerable. Key Points Family violence creates deep vulnerabilities by teaching children harmful lessons that love is transactional, they’re not enough, and there’s something wrong with them that they can’t overcome – wounds that become embedded in their brain chemistry when trauma happens at a young age. Traffickers don’t create vulnerabilities but rather exploit existing wounds from family abuse, stepping into unmet needs and exploiting lessons already learned about intimacy being tied to exploitation. Statistics reveal that 90% of abusers are known to their victims with only 10% being strangers, and 31% of traffickers are actually family members of the victim, making “stranger danger” education insufficient. Grooming is a process of control and manipulation that builds trust, chips away boundaries, and creates dependency so victims willingly comply when lines are crossed into inappropriate behavior because they’ve been normalized to the perpetrator’s actions. Training is essential for leaders, staff, pastors, volunteers, and teachers to recognize grooming signs like expensive gift-giving, requests for secrecy, and isolating language such as “your parents don’t understand you, but I do.” Clear boundaries and policies are crucial, including no one-on-one supervision between adults and children, with swift consequences when policies aren’t followed to prevent grooming opportunities. Children need to be empowered to say no even to trusted adults, with parents and leaders respecting their boundaries and teaching them about “tricky people” rather than just strangers. Trauma-informed communities must stop asking “what’s wrong with you?” and instead listen without judgment, sitting with broken people without requiring them to change or behave in prescribed ways to receive care. Parents should be vigilant about adults in their children’s lives, knowing what interactions look like and requiring that any adult who wants to be friends with their child must be friends with the parent first. Breaking the cycle requires communities that believe victims, provide someone to stand up for those who can’t yet stand up for themselves, and create new family structures when biological families fail to protect. Resources 204 – Is Your Organization Trauma Informed and Why Should It Be? 124 – Prevention: Trauma Informed and Transformational Schools Transcript [00:00:00] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast here at Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan, and this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Today I’m joined by Dr. [00:00:22] Beth Lorance. She’s an adjunct professor at Vanguard and former director of Vanguard’s Counseling Center. Beth earned her PsyD in clinical psychology and is also a licensed minister. Today we’ll discover how a high school coach gave one of his players expensive gifts, things her mother had refused to buy. [00:00:49] The mom posted online asking what to do, not realizing she was witnessing grooming behavior. This same pattern creates vulnerabilities that traffickers exploit, and it’s happening in trusted spaces throughout your community. Now here’s our interview. [00:01:11] Well, Dr. Beth Lorance, I am so excited to have you on the Ending Human Trafficking podcast today. [00:01:20] Beth Lorance: I am excited to be here. [00:01:21] Sandie Morgan: We were just chatting before I hit the record button, and we have known each other for two decades. [00:01:28] Beth Lorance: It’s been a long time. [00:01:30] Sandie Morgan: and what a deep friendship and collegiality, as I was pursuing my PhD and you were pursuing your PsyD and clinical psychology [00:01:44] and, changing off, I taught family violence. Now you teach family violence and I’m a guest in your class, and [00:01:54] Beth Lorance: I know. It’s wonderful. [00:01:56] Sandie Morgan: love it, the collegiality and just tossing things back and forth as we work together to make things better for our kids. [00:02:07] So we’re gonna talk today about the link between family violence and human trafficking. [00:02:14] And I know in my world that many of the victims of human trafficking that we’ve served right here in Orange County, California started with some kind of childhood trauma, [00:02:31] and that often happened in a family context, [00:02:35] so I would like to start with talking about how you help your students unpack the complex dynamics of abuse and how that might contribute to fostering vulnerabilities that then traffickers exploit. [00:02:59] Beth Lorance: Yeah. really when we look at family violence, what we see is that it creates all of these vulnerabilities in a person’s life. And if they don’t find healing from those vulnerabilities, if they don’t come to recognize them, if they don’t come to get over them, get over is not the right terminology, but to, um, move beyond them, [00:03:21] then they can be exploited later on in life. And we do that in my class as we talk about what family violence does for an individual. And we look at things like, the lessons that abuse teaches a person. And when a person faces trauma or abuse at a young age, they learn these lessons that they’re not enough, [00:03:42] that love is transactional, that there’s something wrong with them that they can’t overcome. And, no matter what the type of abuse is, if it’s sexual abuse or emotional abuse, neglect or physical abuse, they begin to learn these lessons. And it’s more than just a, like a lesson you would learn in school. [00:04:03] If the trauma happens at a young age, it begins to rewire your brain chemistry and it really becomes embedded in how you see the world and how you, interact with people around you. How you experience, love. You begin to confuse danger with love or attention. it will impair a person’s decision making. [00:04:25] It will increase their fear response. And all of that is because of this trauma that they experienced in their family at a young age or even at a middle age, like a adoles...

Patrick McDonough joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to discuss his groundbreaking $40 million jury verdict against a hotel for enabling child sex trafficking and how this landmark case is changing accountability standards across the hospitality industry. Patrick McDonough Patrick J. McDonough is a nationally recognized attorney and advocate who leads the Sex Trafficking Division at Andersen, Tate & Carr. With a legal career marked by justice-driven leadership and deep community engagement, Pat has dedicated his life to representing survivors of sex trafficking and fighting systemic injustice. Before joining Andersen, Tate & Carr, Pat made history as the youngest District Attorney in the state of Georgia, where he pioneered the development of child advocacy centers, providing trauma-informed care and legal support to child victims of sexual abuse. In his legal practice, Pat has built a comprehensive, survivor-centered approach to litigation, assembling a national network of professionals to support clients from first contact through final judgment. His efforts have earned widespread recognition, being featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Sports Illustrated, Forbes, and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Outside the courtroom, Pat has raised over $1 million to support unhoused individuals and founded HomeFirst Gwinnett and the Gwinnett Reentry Intervention Program (GRIP). Key Points McDonough won a historic $40 million jury verdict in July 2025 against United Inn & Suites in Decatur, Georgia, marking one of the first TVPRA cases against a hotel to reach trial and verdict. The case involved a 16-year-old victim who was trafficked over 200 times in just 40 days, with hotel staff selling her condoms and ignoring obvious signs of trafficking. The verdict included $10 million in compensatory damages to make the victim whole and $30 million in punitive damages designed to send a message to the entire hospitality industry. Hotels cannot claim ignorance when red flags are obvious—if staff see what appears to be prostitution, they should call law enforcement regardless of whether they can definitively identify it as trafficking. Clear warning signs include high foot traffic with men going in and out of rooms every 20-30 minutes, scantily clad young women, large numbers of used condoms found during cleaning, and luxury cars visiting budget hotels. Hotel staff empowerment comes from the top—management must train employees and create a culture where staff are encouraged to report suspicious activity rather than just “rent rooms and make money.” Simple staff training on recognizing red flags and proper reporting procedures can prevent hotels from becoming trafficking hotspots and protect them from legal liability. McDonough has settled over 80 similar cases, but this verdict was particularly significant because the hotel refused reasonable settlement offers and chose to go to trial. Community members play a vital role in prevention by reporting unusual traffic patterns and suspicious activity to law enforcement, as it truly “takes a village” to combat trafficking. Resources Patrick McDonough at Andersen, Tate & Carr EHT187 – Why Is Labor Trafficking So Hard To Find? Transcript [00:00:00] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast here at Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandy Morgan, and this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Today I’m joined by attorney Patrick McDonough, partner at Anderson, Tate and Carr, and he leads their sex trafficking division. [00:00:35] Pat just won a $40 million jury verdict that sending shockwaves through the hotel industry. His 16-year-old client had been trafficked over 200 times in just 40 days while staff sold her condoms and ignored obvious signs. This case changes the rules for every hotel in America and reveals red flags that could be happening in your own community. And now here’s our interview. [00:01:13] Sandie Morgan: Patrick McDonough, I am thrilled to have you on the ending Human Trafficking Podcast. Welcome. [00:01:20] Patrick McDonough: Thank you so much. I’m, I’m thrilled to be here. [00:01:23] Sandie Morgan: I was so excited when I saw the headline that there was a $40 million judgment in a trafficking case. Tell me how you ended up in the courtroom where you were able to achieve that kind of result for a victim of human trafficking. [00:01:50] Patrick McDonough: Well, I met our survivor, probably five years ago, so it’s been a long journey, on a road to getting into trial, and I’ve probably settled a little north of 80 cases, and typically when you get really close to trial, that’s when they finally decide that they’re going to provide some type of compensation and you often are able to, to resolve the case. [00:02:13] But for whatever reason, this, hotel and kind of insurance company decided that they wanted to take us to task and, and, and really never offered anything that we would’ve even considered. So it gave us a great opportunity. There wasn’t a hard decision to make, like, you know, should we take the money or should we go to trial? [00:02:30] So we were able to just really go forward and try the case. And really, the most profound thing for me, I’ve been doing these cases now for six years, is, you know, we believe how to prove these cases and we believe our survivors and, and we believe we know how to prove the case. And, and obviously we’ve convinced a number of people to settle, but it, it’s really meaningful when we were able to talk to the jurors after the case, and like all the things that we had kind of believed over these years, they, they validated, and in fact, the defense attorneys would ask questions and things I think that they might’ve even believed. [00:03:04] They, you know, they, they did not believe, the jury didn’t believe. So it was very, very validating. [00:03:09] Sandie Morgan: Give me a couple of examples of, of what the jurors believed. [00:03:15] Patrick McDonough: So one of the big, kind of themes on the defense approach is they try to make it like a legal class, and they try to argue that one of the elements in this federal lawsuit is what they call participation in a venture. And so they would try to explain that as well to have. The trafficker participate in a venture with the hotel. [00:03:33] They almost make it sound like it has to be a party to a crime. Like the trafficker walks into the front of the hotel and like says, Hey, I’m gonna be in this back room trafficking somebody. And that’s not really what the law says. The law really says if the hotel knows this is going on or should know this is going on then and they’re taking money on it, they should be held liable or, or responsible. [00:03:54] But it’s been a constant fight with multiple defense attorneys really throughout the country. And it was just very nice when they, the defense attorney asked the jurors like, you know, what was it that proved participation in a venture? And all the jurors said, you know, it wasn’t one thing, it, it was the whole case. [00:04:09] It was the three different victims that we put up. It was the two police officers that said they had a bad reputation. It was the expert in how she explained it. So it, it was just one of those things that was very heart heartwarming that the case we put together, you know, the jury really u...

Debbie Deem joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to discuss how transnational fraud predators are stealing billions from older adults and the intersection between financial crimes and human trafficking. Debbie Deem Debbie Deem is a retired FBI victim specialist with over 40 years of experience serving crime victims. She’s currently an elder justice victim advocate, specializing in transnational fraud crimes and she serves as co-facilitator for the National Adult Protective Services Association Fraud Forum. She helped start the Victim Assistance Programs at the US Attorney’s Office in both San Francisco and Los Angeles, where in the early to mid-1990s she discovered what we now call human trafficking victims and was assisting those victims while also working with financial crime victims. After moving to the FBI in 2003, she began focusing on older victims of lottery, sweepstakes, and romance frauds, gravitating toward the most underserved victims throughout her career. Key Points Financial fraud against older adults is now the most common crime happening around the world, with $4.9 billion reported stolen from Americans 60 and older in 2024 alone, representing a 33% increase from the previous year. The Federal Trade Commission estimates that close to $160 billion per year is stolen from all Americans due to fraud crimes, making this a massive underreported crisis. Language matters when discussing fraud victims – using terms like “defrauded” instead of “scammed” helps maintain victim dignity and reduces blame, similar to how language evolved in human trafficking advocacy. Common fraud types include romance frauds using stolen military or celebrity images, crypto investment frauds starting with innocent text messages, lottery/sweepstakes frauds, tech support impersonations, and phantom hacking where criminals impersonate bank security. Victims experience trauma bonds and love bombing similar to human trafficking victims, making it extremely difficult to recognize they’re being manipulated even when red flags are present. The neuroscience behind financial fraud shows that brain chemistry and excitement responses make these relationships feel authentic to victims, requiring neuropsychologists and medical professionals to help explain what’s happening. System failures are widespread – in one case study, a victim lost $380,000 but police didn’t respond, banks didn’t file required Adult Protective Services reports, and victim services provided no meaningful support. Crypto ATMs have become “fraud machines” found in gas stations and small stores, though California now limits transactions to $1,000 per day, causing criminals to evolve to using couriers and other methods. Prevention strategies include not answering unknown phone calls, getting scam warning apps, sharing personal fraud experiences with family members rather than lecturing, and establishing trusted contacts on all financial accounts. Revictimization occurs through recovery scams where criminals impersonate law enforcement agencies claiming they can help recover stolen funds, and through tax obligations on money withdrawn from retirement accounts even when it was stolen. The crime creates long-term devastation including bankruptcy, homelessness, suicide ideation, and forcing elderly victims back into the workforce after losing life savings. This field is where human trafficking advocacy was 20 years ago – needing widespread recognition, proper terminology, victim services, and systemic responses to address the crisis effectively. Resources Debbie deem Neuroscience Behind Financial Scams: A DOJ elder initiative Internet Crime Complaint Center – ic3.gov National Elder Fraud Hotline Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast here at Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandy Morgan, and this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Today’s guest represents a powerful intersection of federal law enforcement expertise and passionate victim advocacy. [00:00:30] Debbie Deem is a retired FBI victim specialist with over 40 years of experience serving crime victims. She’s currently an elder justice victim advocate, specializing. Transnational fraud crimes and she serves as co-facilitator for the National Adult Protective Services Association Fraud Forum. [00:01:01] Today we will discover how financial fraud predators are, stealing billions from older adults, 4.9 billion in 2024 alone. And why these crimes mirror the early days of human trafficking recognition. Debbie shares real case studies, including a devastating story of a $380,000 theft, and she reveals practical strategies that families can use to protect their loved ones from becoming targets. [00:01:37] And now here’s our interview. [00:01:39] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the ending Human Trafficking Podcast, Debbie Deem. [00:01:45] Debbie Deem: Thank you very much. Looking forward to it. [00:01:48] Sandie Morgan: I just love that we are having this conversation. I’ve known you for a couple decades and you’ve been deeply involved in combating human trafficking from the victim side, and today our conversation is going to talk about how transnational scam predators victimize. Our family members and what we can do about that. So I’m excited to have you on our show today, so Debbie, let’s first talk about how your career in the FBI impacted your understanding of victimization. [00:02:37] Debbie Deem: Sandy, thank you again for having me. And I have to say that actually it was my first work, I was a victim specialist for the FBI, and I’ve been retired. I call myself unleashed for about the last six years, but even before that position, I helped start, The Victim Assistance Programs at the US Attorney’s Office, both in San Francisco and in Los Angeles. [00:02:58] And it was actually there in their, actually their early to mid 1990s that I discovered both what we now call human trafficking victims, both in sex trafficking, With a domestic as well as an international trafficking, situation and was assisting those. But I also was required under the victim rights law to start notifying victims of all crimes. [00:03:20] And that included financial crimes and identity theft, when we had cases that were going forward. So when I first became aware, it was actually both groups of victims that had been. Very underserved. Again, not even names for those crimes at that time. But I was obligated to find services that didn’t exist. [00:03:39] I was obligated to inform them about their rights in the criminal justice system. Um, in some cases, with the traffic victims, they didn’t even speak english. So again, the variety of things, that I found in both situations actually started in the early to mid 1990s. And then when I moved to the FBI, in 2003, I was asked by agents to start visiting victims who, older victims who had been often contacted by phone and just the beginning days of the internet, because they had been defrauded. [00:04:11] I, I try to use the word defrauded versus scammed. Because it just seems like it, it focuses more on the seriousness of the crime rather than putting any kind of blame on the victim, which oftentimes the word scam does. So what happened is that I was vis...

Matthew Soerens joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to discuss the intersection of immigration policy and human trafficking, exploring how vulnerable immigration status increases the risk of exploitation and trafficking. Matthew Soerens Matthew Soerens is vice President of Advocacy and Policy at World Relief. He has dedicated his career to responding to the needs of immigrants and refugees through a biblical lens of justice and compassion. He also serves as national coordinator for the Evangelical Immigration table, and he co-authored Seeking Refuge on the shores of the Global Refugee Crisis. Key Points Human trafficking involves people forced to work under fraud or coercion, while smuggling refers to bringing someone across a border unlawfully – these terms are often conflated but represent different crimes that can sometimes overlap. Migrants, refugees, and asylum seekers are particularly vulnerable to trafficking because they’re in unfamiliar cultural settings where they don’t know the rules, their rights, or the laws, making them less likely to report exploitation. Current immigration enforcement approaches that create widespread fear in immigrant communities can inadvertently increase trafficking vulnerability by making people afraid to report crimes or seek help from law enforcement. California Republican legislators recently wrote a letter asking for more discernment in immigration enforcement, focusing on those convicted of violent crimes rather than broad sweeps that detain people who haven’t committed crimes. The U.S. immigration system’s complexity rivals tax law, with at least 18 different visa types, making it difficult for immigrants to understand their legal status, especially when policies change rapidly. Recent policy changes have left many Afghans, Haitians, and Venezuelans without legal status overnight, despite having previously worked lawfully with valid documentation. Employers who fail to file necessary visa extensions can create situations where workers become vulnerable to labor trafficking through coercion and threats of deportation. The lack of immigrant visa pathways for non-highly skilled workers forces many into temporary status or unauthorized situations, creating dependency on employers that can lead to exploitation. Unaccompanied children are among the most vulnerable to human trafficking, and recent legislation may undermine important protections established by the Trafficking Victims Protection Act. Churches and community organizations can play a vital role by building relationships with immigrants, providing practical support, and advocating for policies that recognize human dignity while affirming the rule of law. Biblical principles call for special concern for “the orphan, the widow, and the foreigner” – groups that remain vulnerable to trafficking today both in the U.S. and globally. Effective anti-trafficking work requires understanding the connection between immigration vulnerability and trafficking risk, as many trafficking victims are immigrants who lack legal protections. Resources World Relief 294 – Combatting Exploitative Child Labor in the U.S., with Matthew Soerens Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church by Matthew Soerens Welcoming the Stranger by Matthew Soerens Transcript [00:00:03] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast, brought to you by Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. This is episode number 350. I am Dr. Sandie Morgan, and this is a show where we help you study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. [00:00:29] Today we are joined by Matthew Sorens, vice President of Advocacy and Policy at World Relief. He has dedicated his career to responding to the needs of immigrants and refugees through a. Biblical lens of justice and compassion. He also serves as national coordinator for the Evangelical Immigration table, and he co-authored Seeking Refuge on the shores of the Global Refugee Crisis. [00:01:06] Sandie Morgan: I’m really happy to Welcome back to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. Matthew Sorens, vice President of Advocacy and Policy at World Relief. [00:01:19] Welcome back, Matthew. So glad [00:01:20] Matthew Soerens: Yeah, so glad to be with you again, Sandie [00:01:22] Sandie Morgan: we have a lot to talk about. First of all, tell us,briefly, what does world relief do, [00:01:30] Matthew Soerens: World Relief is a global Christian humanitarian organization that,has existed for about 80 years. Our mission is to boldly engage the world’s greatest crises in partnership with the church. And, and right now as we look at. Crises around the world, we see displacement people being forced to flee from their homes and from their countries. [00:01:48] In many cases, as really near the top of the list of global crises. It’s also a global crisis, of course, that intersects in many situations with challenges of human trafficking. So this is an issue we carry a great deal about both in the United States and around the world. [00:02:03] Sandie Morgan: All right. And from the perspective of human trafficking, this is the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. There are several elements in our discussion today that we wanna clarify. First is the difference between smuggling and trafficking. Can you do that in 25 words? [00:02:25] Matthew Soerens: Sure. I think so. I mean, trafficking under US law is when people are made to work under forced fraud or coercion, whether it’s sex trafficking or labor trafficking. Smuggling is when someone is brought across the border against the law. Now those things can be related. People who are smuggled could also be being trafficked, but they’re not the same thing. [00:02:43] And I think the risk of. Conflating those terms is that we think of trafficking sometimes as something that happens at the border when actually trafficking can happen anywhere in the world, and it can happen to immigrants and sometimes they’re uniquely vulnerable. But it also can happen to American citizens. [00:02:58] It can happen within a country. It can happen with people who are outside of their country. And I do think that distinction sometimes gets conflated in some of the political dialogue in some unhelpful ways. [00:03:07] Sandie Morgan: All right. And,that’s really helpful for our listeners who live along the borders here in the US and beyond. I was in Madrid, in May, in Greece in February, and this issue of smuggling and trafficking being conflated is a. Constant challenge to overcome. Now, you mentioned the issues of fraud and coercion, and people in migrant status often have driving forces that increase their vulnerability. So can you talk abou...

Eleanor Kennelly Gaetan joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to discuss the critical need for legislative reform to combat online sexual exploitation, focusing on Section 230 immunity and emerging laws like the Take It Down Act. Eleanor Kennelly Gaetan Eleanor Kennelly Gaetan is director of public policy at the National Center on Sexual Exploitation in Washington DC. She has been an advocate for stronger laws to fight sexual exploitation and has had a role in passing key anti-trafficking laws like the Justice for Victims of Trafficking Act and SESTA-FOSTA, which changed Section 230 to hold tech platforms more accountable for their role in enabling sex trafficking. Key Points Human trafficking was only identified as a crime in the year 2000 with the passage of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, making it a relatively new field where small movements have achieved significant progress. Eleanor witnessed firsthand in Romania how young women were lured abroad with false promises of legitimate work, only to be trafficked into commercial sexual exploitation, highlighting the critical need for proper victim services rather than detention centers. The Take It Down Act represents a crucial breakthrough by criminalizing the uploading of non-consensual sexually explicit material for the first time and requiring platforms to provide real human help desks for removal requests within 48 hours. Image-based sexual abuse creates ongoing trauma for victims because unlike other trafficking incidents that end, having images online means “you’re being raped and it’s online and you can’t get it down,” creating continuous retraumatization. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996 when the internet was nascent, provides broad immunity to internet service providers and has been interpreted by courts as creating a “wall of immunity” for social media platforms. The case against Twitter involving 13-year-old boys demonstrates how platforms monetize child exploitation material through advertising revenue while claiming Section 230 immunity protects them from liability. California’s Age Appropriate Design Code represents one approach to reform by requiring companies to test products for age appropriateness before launch, using product liability law to sidestep Section 230 immunity issues. Meta tracks children’s negative emotions and targets vulnerable youth with harmful content, including targeting kids who fear being “too fat” with eating disorder material, showing the deliberate exploitation of minors. Bipartisan support exists for reform, with both Democratic and Republican senators preparing to introduce a bill to repeal Section 230, recognizing that tech companies are not policing themselves effectively. The Social Media Victims Law Center currently represents over 4,000 families whose children have been harmed or killed due to social media platform irresponsibility enabled by Section 230 immunity. Congressional education on online harms has accelerated with over 24 briefings since 2019, positioning the current Congress as potentially the most informed ever on these issues. Federal guidance on best practices remains insufficient, with some jurisdictions like San Diego developing excellent collaborative models while others lack functional systems for moving victims into services. Resources Social Media Victims Law Center – Social Media Litigation Lawyers Can’t Look Away: The Case Against Social Media CDA230 Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast, brought to you by Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan, and this is a show where we equip you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in the fight to end human trafficking right where you are. [00:00:23] Today, I’m honored to welcome Dr. Eleanor Gaetan to the show. She’s director of. Public policy at the National Center on Sexual Exploitation that’s in Washington DC. She has been an advocate for stronger laws to fight sexual exploitation and has had a role in passing key anti-trafficking laws. Like the Justice for Victims of Trafficking Act and Cesta Fossa, which changed Section 230 to hold tech platforms more accountable for their role in enabling sex trafficking. [00:01:07] sandie: Eleanor, we have been in the same movement for decades, and it is exciting to see how some of our long held dreams have come to fruition. [00:01:21] And one of mine has been to have you on this podcast. [00:01:24] 349-guest: Oh, professor Morgan, thank you so much. It’s really a delight to join the coast. I’m speaking to you from Washington DC I know you’re there in California, and we together embrace all the advocates in between. [00:01:36] 349-sandie: Well, and for our listeners who have been long time subscribers, my former podcast intern, I Dallas. [00:01:46] she’s working with Dr. Gataen. So I, it was like full circle, the both coasts, all of us hands held together in this work. It is hard work. It takes dedication and long-term determination. Some people might even say we’re a bit stubborn. [00:02:09] Dr. Gaetan: Certainly stubborn have to be persistent and stubborn. But the great thing about the field of human trafficking and the, you know, this was only identified as a crime in the year 2000. So let’s recall that, that, that there wasn’t a name for human trafficking. until 22, the year 2000, and the Trafficking Victims Protection Act. [00:02:27] So it’s a relatively new field and yet the advance, the progress has been as a result of human champions and a few, you know, it’s a small movement that has mountains. [00:02:42] Sandie: and you were instrumental in passing the first Trafficking Victims Protection Act here in the us. Tell me about that. [00:02:51] guest: So I worked for U-S-A-I-D in Romania, and Romania was an example of a country where when the. When communism ended in 1989, 1990, people had been trapped in their countries. People were desperate to travel, and they lost a lot of jobs, and so people really needed work and they were seeking work abroad. [00:03:11] So young women were especially vulnerable to those promises of a babysitting job or a waitressing job, or an elder care job. Around Western Europe and around the world. and so vulnerable to the, the promises of traffickers. So we witnessed in Romania and Moldova entire villages of young women being being lured abroad, and so many of them abused badly in both legal brothels and illegal prostitution around, around the world. [00:03:39] I mean, the US government was supporting a, a trafficking shelter in Romania and Bucharest that I was helping to manage as a democracy officer. And it was shocking to me that it wasn’t, it wasn’t a, a shelter, it was a detention center. So women were being abused in, say, legal brothels in Germany were arrested, repatriated to their home country. [00:04:01] There’s 20 years old, they come back with nothing and then they’re put in virtually like a prison cell and told they’re supposed to stay in this shelter, but it’s a detention center. And of course they ran away. So I was witnessing the lack, complete lack of services to help people who had been traumatized at a young age in the sex trade, in the commercial sex trade around the world. [00:04:23] Sandie: Wow. And I was in Athens, Greece at ...

Andrew Kroeger joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as the two discuss how anyone can find their unique role in fighting human trafficking without changing careers, using the metaphor of grabbing a handle on an ancient Greek pithari jar. Andrew Kroeger Andrew Kroeger is a podcast producer with over a decade of experience and a proud Vanguard alum. Before podcasting, he worked in book publishing as an editor and spent years as a live sound engineer. He’s also passionate about global missions, having spent many summers living in Romania, doing outreach work for the past eight years. Andrew has been the invisible force behind this podcast, editing every episode, managing the website, and ensuring content reaches listeners in over 170 countries. What’s fascinating is how Andrew never set out to work in anti-human trafficking – this opportunity came to him through his existing skills and connections. Key Points Andrew’s journey into anti-trafficking work began as a Vanguard student doing live sound for events, which led to connections that eventually brought him to podcast production work eight years later. The pithari metaphor illustrates how fighting human trafficking requires many people finding their unique “handle” – you don’t need to carry the entire burden alone, just find where your skills fit. Andrew emphasizes that people don’t need to change careers or entire life directions to make a meaningful impact in anti-trafficking work – opportunities often come through existing skills and connections. His global mission experience, particularly in Romania and Egypt’s “Garbage City,” gave him firsthand perspective on trafficking issues that keeps him passionate about the work. Eight years of editing every episode has transformed Andrew from a “tech guy” into a content expert who can now play an editorial role in shaping the podcast’s message. Working consistently with anti-trafficking content can lead to emotional numbing, requiring intentional effort to maintain compassion and avoid becoming cynical about the work. The podcast’s focus on hope and human dignity, rather than just statistics and outcomes, sets it apart from other anti-trafficking content and prevents burnout. Andrew’s favorite episodes are those featuring Romania because they connect to his personal mission experience, and the recent AI episode with David Tyre because it showed how emerging technology can help rather than hinder anti-trafficking efforts. The podcast is transitioning to video format to reach more students and young professionals who prefer visual content and want to share episodes with friends and classmates. Finding your “handle” means recognizing opportunities that come to you naturally rather than forcing your way into anti-trafficking work – partnership is often more effective than starting from scratch. Resources Connect with Andrew 282 – Crisis Prevention of Ukraine Refugee Trafficking, with Ioana Bauer 341 – Following the Money: How Financial Crime Investigations Disrupt Human Trafficking Transcript [00:00:00] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast here at Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women and Justice in Orange County, California. I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan, and this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. [00:00:24] Today I’m flipping the script and putting our producer Andrew Kroeger in front of the microphone. Andrew is a podcast producer with over a decade of experience. And a proud Vanguard alum. Before podcasting, he worked in book publishing as an editor and spent years as a live sound engineer. He’s also passionate about global missions, having spent many summers living in Romania, doing outreach work for the past eight years. [00:01:05] Andrew has been the invisible force behind this podcast. He’s been editing every episode, managing our website, and ensuring our content reaches listeners in over a 170 countries. What’s fascinating is how Andrew never set out to work in anti-human trafficking. This opportunity came to him through his existing skills and connections. [00:01:40] In our conversation, we’ll discuss how he found his handle. Think about the pithari jar, why you don’t need to change careers to make a difference in fighting human trafficking, and we’ll also share some exciting news about the podcast future direction. And now let’s hop to the interview. [00:02:07] One of our favorite stories on the ending Human Trafficking podcast is the story of the pithari. The pithari is a huge jar, a vessel in the King’s pantry of the palace at On the island of Crete. And I still remember the first time I saw it because I thought. I could stand up inside of that. It was so huge and I learned that it was used to bring olive oil, grain, nuts, whatever, into the pantry. [00:02:47] Now the pantry was downstairs in the King’s palace and the stairs were rather narrow and very steep, and I wondered how the people could get it down there. This is 3000 years ago, and then it was explained that the handles that I thought were decorative were instrumental. They were baked on from the top. [00:03:14] Of the jar all the way to the bottom and all the way around. So try to imagine people being able to grab a handle, whether they’re on the top stair or middle or down below, to carry this huge vessel filled with maybe olive oil. You don’t want it to spill, and everyone had to find. Their handle to carry it safely to the bottom,And that is the image I have in my mind when I think about how many people it takes to lead the anti-human trafficking movement. And one of the most important people that you never get to see or meet, and the ending Human Trafficking podcast is our producer. Andrew Kroeger. So I have him today in studio and I am excited to welcome you here. [00:04:16] How does it feel to be on the other end of the microphone? [00:04:21] Andrew Kroeger: It feels absolutely wild, and I’ve never been more nervous. [00:04:24] In my entire life. [00:04:26] Sandie Morgan: Oh my gosh. So let’s do a little bit of our origin story. And when you joined the team, most of our listeners, remember when Dave Stachowiak was on our Global Center for Women I Justice Board and said, let’s start a podcast. [00:04:43] And I’m like, what? We started the podcast. We were co-hosts for years, and that was his handle in how to respond to anti-human trafficking. But today you are the producer. [00:05:01] Andrew Kroeger: I am the producer, so the story actually goes way back, way before this show, and I was actually a student here at Vanguard and a sound...

  Dr. Brenda Navarrete and a group of Vanguard University students join Dr. Sandie Morgan as they reflect on their study abroad trip to Spain, where they partnered with Fiat to learn about trauma-informed care, survivor empowerment, and global anti-trafficking efforts. Dr. Brenda Navarrete and Students Dr. Brenda Navarrete is a professor and research associate at Vanguard University and an expert in trauma-informed survivor care. She teaches in the university’s Online Human Trafficking Certificate program. Her knowledge and cultural insight helped shape a meaningful and immersive learning experience for the Vanguard students during their study abroad program. Key Points The study abroad trip to Madrid gave Vanguard students firsthand experience with global anti-trafficking work through a partnership with Fiat, a nonprofit serving survivors in Spain. Students emphasized learning trauma-informed principles, such as avoiding re-victimization and respecting survivor autonomy. Art therapy and creative expression were highlighted as effective and healing methods used at the safe home, with students witnessing their calming and empowering effects. The cultural value of acomodida—a spirit of humble, proactive service—became a guiding principle for student engagement with survivors. Students learned that trauma-informed care includes mutuality and empowerment, where survivors also offer and give, creating meaningful connection. Activities like cooking, sharing stories, and doing art together fostered authentic relationships and mutual respect. Projects like the Tree of Life and vision boards allowed survivors to express their roots, hopes, and dreams in empowering and therapeutic ways. The behind-the-scenes roles at Fiat, from psychologists to accountants to legal teams, revealed the extensive support system needed to care for survivors effectively. The experience helped students connect their faith, education, and career goals with real-world advocacy and social justice work. Multiple students reflected on how the trip inspired them to pursue their dreams, shift their career direction, and deepen their commitment to anti-trafficking work. Dr. Brenda and Dr. Sandie both emphasized the mutual transformation that occurred during the trip—for both the survivors and the students—through shared humanity and humility. Students left with a renewed sense of purpose, hope, and vision for how they can contribute to justice and healing in their own communities. Resources Trip photos on the GCWJ Facebook page Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. I’m Dr. Sandie Morgan, and this is the show where we equip you to study the issues, be a voice and make a difference. In the Fight to End human trafficking here at the Global Center for Women in Justice at Vanguard University and wherever you are. [00:00:22] In this special episode, we’re joined by a passionate group of Vanguard University students, Bella Luzi, Alba, deiz Alvarado. Itel Monroy, Delaney Menninger, and Ariana Johnson. Along with professor and research associate Dr. Brenda Navarrete. They were all on the recent study abroad trip to Madrid, Spain. During this trip, we partnered with Fiat, an amazing nonprofit dedicated to preventing human trafficking and supporting survivors. [00:01:05] This experience gave our students a firsthand look at the realities of global anti-trafficking efforts, what prevention looks like in real communities, how frontline nonprofits operate, and the importance of collaboration. [00:01:25] Let’s listen in as they reflect on how this journey shaped their learning, their faith, and their future advocacy. [00:01:35] Sandie Morgan: I [00:01:35] have been in Spain for the last 11 days with a Vanguard University Global Center for Women and Justice Study Abroad team. They have been working with the organization called Fiat, here in Madrid, Spain. [00:01:57] and we have spent several days working in the aftercare home and we have spent time. With the staff and professionals at F. So let’s have a conversation from the student’s perspective about their experience and what they learned. Let’s start with you, Bella, and tell us what did you expect? [00:02:30] Guests: Hi, my name’s Bella Luzi. I am a, I just finished up my freshman year at Vanguard University. I am majoring in communications and I have a minor in Women in Justice. coming onto this trip, I really didn’t know what to expect. I took Intro to Women in Justice this year, so I got a brief understanding of, the patriarchy and just kind of dipped my toes into, um, women I justice. [00:02:56]And so, coming onto this trip, I just had, Just open expectations and just was curious to see what I was gonna learn and find out. and I was really pleasantly surprised with, what I, what I ended up acquiring from this trip. [00:03:10] Sandie Morgan: Let’s go to you, Alba. [00:03:13] Guests: Hi, my name is Alba Alvarado. I’m a graduated senior and I’m a sociology major with a minor in criminology. [00:03:21] I didn’t really have an expectation. I was blessed enough to go to Greece last year with Dr. Morgan, and I was trying to see the differences of what we. We’re gonna do and what we did, but I knew we were gonna meet wonderful ladies like Fiona, her daughter, and the women in the safe home. So I was really excited to get to know everybody and learn more from it. [00:03:47] Sandie Morgan: Thank you. [00:03:47] Guests: Hello, my name is Roy. I am a freshman. I am majoring in liberal studies with a minor in criminal justice and overall. I think I had an expectation but didn’t at the same time. I tried to make sure like my expectations were low, so then when I got there, I was just amazingly surprised of like everything we were doing, like all of the, presentations and being able to just be with the women and, and see with sort of their daily life looks like. [00:04:21] Sandie Morgan: Ariana. [00:04:23] Guests: Hi, my name’s Ariana Johnson. I am going to be a sophomore this year. I am majoring in theology and minoring in women’s justice. I. As along with the other ladies, I didn’t have many expectations for the trip. I am currently an intern at, the Global Center and have learned a lot, and I was just excited to meet these women and make relationships and learn a lot. [00:04:51] And I am Delaney Menninger. I am a incoming senior at Vanguard who’s studying sociology with a minor in women’s justice. I also have worked for the center for this past year, so I’ve gotten some good information on what human trafficking kind of looks like. I’ve worked a lot on the preventative side of it, but I was really excited to learn more about victim services and kind of see what that looks like to. [00:05:18] Be in that place of taking care of so...

Derek Marsh joins Dr. Sandie Morgan as the two discuss leveraging financial tools and intelligence as core investigative strategies to disrupt human trafficking operations and improve survivor restitution outcomes. Derek Marsh Derek Marsh is the Associate Director of the Global Center for Women and Justice and a deputy chief with extensive law enforcement experience. He has been a frequent guest on the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast and led a recent roundtable discussion on following the money in human trafficking investigations. His background includes hands-on experience with trafficking investigations and a deep understanding of the collaborative approaches needed to combat these complex crimes. Key Points Financial intelligence serves as a core investigative tool that provides a clearer perspective of criminal organizations than traditional methods relying on confidential informants or victim testimony. Sophisticated money laundering patterns include funnel accounts, structured cash deposits, and geographically patterned movements that help traffickers hide the origin and legitimacy of their funds. Financial investigations can expose connections between what appear to be separate crimes, revealing larger criminal enterprises rather than isolated “mom and pop” operations. Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs) generated by banks when they detect unusual deposit patterns provide valuable intelligence for law enforcement agencies investigating trafficking operations. Advanced software tools like those from Valid8 Financial can visualize complex transaction flows and present financial data in comprehensible formats for courts, making cases stronger and easier to prosecute. Geographic analysis of financial flows reveals high-risk corridors between certain countries that banks monitor for potential criminal activity, such as Nigeria to Italy or Philippines to Europe pathways. Human trafficking investigations require multi-agency collaboration because finances cross jurisdictional boundaries as easily as phone calls or internet connections. Public-private partnerships with banks, corporations, NGOs, and faith-based organizations create interlocking layers of expertise that strengthen investigations globally. Financial tools enable law enforcement to seize assets and freeze accounts tied to trafficking operations, providing funds for survivor restitution that has historically been difficult to collect. Using financial intelligence reduces the burden on survivors to testify in court by providing concrete evidence that doesn’t require victim testimony to prove criminal enterprise operations. The approach transforms financial intelligence into justice by treating human trafficking fundamentally as a financial crime that exploits people for profit. Training law enforcement on financial investigative techniques and providing AI-enhanced tools are essential since most officers lack accounting expertise needed for complex financial analysis. Resources Derek Marsh Valid8 Financial Roundable Notes (coming soon) 341 – Following the Money Transcript [00:00:00] Sandie Morgan: Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast. This is episode number 346, leveraging financial tools to disrupt human trafficking. I am very happy to be joined here in the studio by Global Center for Women and Justice Associate Director, deputy Chief Derek Marsh. [00:00:28] We have been working together for a very long time and he’s been a frequent guest here on the podcast, so I’m not going to include a bio, but you can go back to the website and learn more from his perspective. By just searching our episodes with the name Derek Marsh. So we’re gonna dive right into the financial aspects. [00:00:53] We recently interviewed David Tyree on following the money and we talked to, um, district attorney Ryann Jorban along the same lines. [00:01:05] Today we’re going to look at this from a broader perspective, after having had a round table on following the money here at Vanguard University led by Derek Marsh, and let’s just get some understanding of what the key strategies and insights are. [00:01:26] That we were able to glean from that round table, and that will lead us into some action steps. So welcome Derek. [00:01:45] Derek Marsh: Thanks for having me again, Sandie. [00:01:47] Sandie Morgan: So, who else was at the table? [00:01:50] Derek Marsh: Well, besides you and myself, David Tyree, our expert from the, retired DEA agent, but also working with Valid8 Financial. Now, we also had Ryann Jorban, who’s an A DEA with Los Angeles, District Attorney’s Office, but we were also lucky enough to have a couple professors from here at Vanguard University. [00:02:09] Professor Julius Angbor, who is a marketing and business expert, specifically in international business issues, focusing mostly in Africa and that region of the world. We also had assistant professor, Dr. Thomas Ropel, who was a retired FBI agent, who was able to focus on the collaborative strategies used by the federal agencies to work on human trafficking and exploitation types of investigations. [00:02:35] We were also lucky to have assistant director of the US Department of Labor Wage in our division, Paul Chang, who was one of our favorites we’ve had on before. Uh, and he was able to discuss specifics about labor trafficking, where we’re finding a lot of labor trafficking occurring and how that process occurs. [00:02:53] And we were also able to have, members, from Valid8 Financial actually show up and discuss their software and give us a demonstration to show how all these. incredible amounts of data that would take a regular person, you know, hours if not weeks, to put together their software is able to put together in a matter of minutes. [00:03:12] It was amazing. So, we had a good group of people who we could discuss this with. And, and finally, I don’t wanna lose this out obviously, but we had, Linh Tran, who is our task force administrator, In charge of the Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force has been for years, ever since even I was there. [00:03:30] So that’s like dating myself or dating her, I’m not sure which, and finally we had, of course, John Cotton Richmond, who, was gracious enough to spend some time with us. He was our, previous human trafficking, czar, maybe that’s the wrong word to use, but that’s, you know, our previous human trafficking, director for the United States and the State Department. [00:03:52] And he was also, actively participating in, in the discussion helping us understand, uh, federal perspectives and where we’re moving forward with financial investigations and the financial tools that can be used. [00:04:05] Sandie Morgan: And, and I think this round table demonstrated how broad the element of following the money as across our movement. [00:04:18] We’re looking at law enforcement, we’re looking at prosecutors, but there’s also this sense that the element of restitution is more attainable for better victim outcomes, and that’s what drove me. You all know my background in pediatric nursing, so a lot of this was foreign language for me. So while Derek and I break down an executive summary of what happened at that round table, I’m the one whoDoesn’t understand even what a forensic accountant does. [00:04:54]  So I’m gonna help stop him when it sounds a little too complicated so that I can put it into my normal context....

Ryann Gerber Jorban joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to discuss how labor exploitation functions as a hidden form of modern-day slavery, and how community collaboration, empathy, and survivor-centered strategies are critical in addressing labor trafficking. Ryann Gerber Jorban Ryann Gerber Jorban is a seasoned prosecutor with the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office, where she has served since 1998. With a background in sociology from UC Riverside and a law degree from the University of Michigan, she has devoted her career to seeking justice for vulnerable communities, including children, the elderly, and survivors of abuse and human trafficking. In her role as Deputy in Charge, she leads both the Economic Justice and Labor Justice Units, focusing on wage theft, labor exploitation, and fraud. Ryann is nationally recognized for her survivor-centered approach, combining legal expertise with a deep commitment to collaboration, trust building, and meeting survivors’ foundational needs. She was also a featured speaker at the 2025 Ensure Justice Conference, where she shared her insights on labor trafficking and the exploitation of children. Key Points Ryann Gerber Jorban describes labor exploitation as a spectrum, with wage theft on one end and labor trafficking on the other, highlighting how quickly one can escalate into the other. Her role involves leading efforts to address wage theft and labor fraud, particularly in sectors vulnerable to exploitation such as construction, restaurants, and healthcare. Labor trafficking often relies on coercion rather than force, such as threats of deportation or withholding pay, to control vulnerable workers. She explains that being paid less than minimum wage does not disqualify a situation from being trafficking—it’s about how a person is controlled or coerced. In a case involving garment workers, individuals were found working 55 hours a week for just $5–$6 an hour, illustrating severe labor violations. She emphasizes building legal cases without placing the burden on the victim, allowing survivors time to stabilize before contributing to legal proceedings. Ryann integrates Maslow’s hierarchy of needs into her legal strategy, ensuring victims have basic needs met before asking them to participate in investigations. She highlights the role of community-based organizations in providing culturally competent care and case management for victims. The importance of collaboration across law enforcement, nonprofits, faith communities, and local agencies is key to supporting survivors and combating labor trafficking. Consumers have a role to play by asking ethical questions and avoiding businesses with exploitative labor practices. Disasters create heightened risks for labor exploitation, and vigilance is needed during rebuilding efforts to ensure ethical labor is used. Faith communities are uniquely positioned to help identify signs of exploitation and educate their congregations in simple, practical ways. Resources Ryann Gerber Jorban on LinkedIn Ensure Justice Conference 2025 – Ryann’s Presentation Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking Podcast here at Vanguard University’s Global Center for Women. Justice in Orange County, California. My name is Dr. Sandie Morgan and this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice. Make a difference in ending human trafficking. [00:00:22] Today I am joined by Ryann Gerber Jorban, a seasoned prosecutor with the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s Office. She has served there since 1998. With a background in sociology from uc, Riverside, and a law degree from the University of Michigan, she has devoted her career to seeking justice for vulnerable communities, including children, the elderly survivors of abuse. [00:00:54] Human trafficking victims in her role as deputy in charge. She leads both the economic justice and labor justice units focusing on wage theft. Labor exploitation and fraud. Ryann is nationally recognized for her survivor-centered approach, combining legal expertise with a deep commitment to collaboration, trust building, and meeting survivors foundational needs. We were honored to have Ryann join us as a speaker at this year’s. Ensure Justice Conference 2025. She shared her insight on labor trafficking and the exploitation of children. [00:01:39] Well, welcome to the ending Human Trafficking podcast, Ryann Gerber Jor. What is it like to be deputy in charge? [00:01:49] Ryann Gerber Jorban: it’s basically the same as being a deputy district attorney, but with more work. [00:01:54] Sandie Morgan: More work. Oh, I thought it would be more fun because you’d have more power. I liked the in charge part of your title. [00:02:01] Ryann Gerber Jorban: the in charge part is nice. It’s very funny. In our office, deputy in charge is actually the lowest level of management. I think they give us that in charge part. So, we feel power even though we have very little. But, I. I will say it is the fun always feels bad when you’re talking about, crime and victims, but it is the most fun I have ever had in my career. [00:02:24] it’s fulfilling. It’s exciting. It’s a little crazy, but it’s definitely the best job I’ve had so far in the DA’s office and I’ve loved all 26 years of my life in the DA’s office. So that’s saying a lot. [00:02:37] Sandie Morgan: Oh, I love that. And for our listeners, she is smiling while she’s saying that, and I’ve known Ryann for a while now and her smile is very authentic. And Ryann, your deputy in charge, full title is Economic Justice and Labor Justice Units. So explain why that is such a fun job. Yeah. [00:03:00] Ryann Gerber Jorban: Yeah, so I’m part of, um, so I work for LA County District Attorney’s office, part of our consumer protection Division. It’s the bigger division and we protect consumers from all kinds of levels of fraud. And, back in, 2017, uh. Jackie Lacey, who was the DA at the time, and a wonderful human being. she, started the, what we called at the time, the Notario Fraud Unit, and we now call it the Economic Justice Unit because it’s more expansive in what we cover, but it was basically protecting vulnerable communities from fraud that is. [00:03:38] Pointed at them because of their vulnerabilities. Their vulnerabilities make them, much more likely to be victimized, than other people. And, I got to be the first, da. I had a boss and then it was me. I was the first trial lawyer in there. And it was the, it was amazing.I’ve worked with vulnerable victims as a sex crimes and domestic violence and child abuse prosecutor for most of my career. [00:04:01] And so this was a natural. Shift and no one was really helping these people in the same way that we were, and I was really proud of that. [00:04:08] Sandie Morgan: I love that. So that’s a good way to segue, into where our conversation is gonna go today. [00:04:16] You’ve called labor exploitation, a form of modern day slavery. Can you unpack what that means in your work and why the public should even care? [00:04:29] Ryann Gerber Jorban: So we tend to get, very focused on the word trafficking. And Sandie, you’ve heard me say this, like ad naum, trafficking’s important trafficking. Is a powerful way to move our messaging. But what we have to understand is labor exploitation is a spectrum, and on one end is trafficking. On the first end is not being paid what you’re owed, but it’s, even though it...