It Means What It Means

Eric Harvey discusses his recent work on creation myths, divine service, and the economic implications of ancient religious practices. He explores the differences between Mesopotamian and biblical narratives, particularly in terms of sacrifice and the needs of the divine. The discussion highlights the complexity of ancient texts and the importance of understanding them within their cultural context. Resources included mentioned in this episode include Atrahasis; The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel; God: An Anatomy; scholar Bruce Wells; The Consuming Fire: The Complete Priestly Source, from Creation to the Promised Land; Food in Ancient Judah: Domestic Cooking in the Time of the Hebrew Bible; scholar Roland Bohr; The Bible With and Without Jesus: How Jews and Christians Read the Same Stories Differently; Beautyland: A Novel; A Thursday Murder Club; and Eric’s blog.

Jennie Grillo, an Associate Professor of Theology at the University of Notre Dame, discusses her insights on divine embodiment in the Hebrew Bible, particularly in relation to the work of Benjamin Sommer. The conversation explores the complexities of how God is represented in biblical texts, the significance of embodiment, and the implications of time in understanding these representations. Grillo emphasizes the fluidity of divine embodiment and the distinctions between human and divine experiences of having a body, drawing on examples from the Book of Job and other biblical narratives. Recommendations in this conversation include The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel; historian Caroline Bynum; Mark S Smith; “When Gods Were Men”: The Embodied God in Biblical and Near Eastern Literature; The Prophetic Body: Embodiment and Mediation in Biblical Prophetic Literature; The Betrothed: A Novel; and Call the Midwife: A Memoir of Birth, Joy, and Hard Times.

In this conversation, Brian Walsh and Sylvia Keesmaat (of Russet House Farm) discuss their book Colossians Remixed: Subverting the Empire. In the book they explore the themes of inevitability and possibility through the lens of biblical narratives. They also emphasize the importance of living with hope and the belief that God can make the impossible possible, urging listeners to embrace a future of reconciliation and new beginnings. Recommendations from this conversation can be found in the show notes for this episode at:https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-111-with-148004507?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

David Basher discusses his research on the biblical text of 1 Samuel 16, focusing on the concept of ghosts and evil spirits in the ancient Near East. He explains the story of Saul, who is tormented by an evil spirit after being rejected as king, and explores various interpretations of Saul's condition, including psychological and supernatural explanations. The discussion also touches on the role of music in healing, the historical context of biblical narratives, and the lack of medical texts from ancient Israel. Basher emphasizes the importance of understanding ancient beliefs and practices to interpret biblical texts accurately. Resources recommended in this episode include Judahite Burial Practices and Beliefs about the Dead; Death in the Iron Age II and in First Isaiah; Death and Burial in Iron Age Israel, Aram, and Phoenicia; A History of Death in the Hebrew Bible; God’s Monsters; Disembodied Souls: The Nefesh in Israel and Kindred Spirits in the Ancient Near East, with an Appendix on the Katumuwa Inscription; Unfamiliar Selves in the Hebrew Bible: Possession and Other Spirit Phenomena; Recovering the Monstrous in Revelation; Star Wars Legends; and Murder in the Tidwell Building.

Kirk MacGregor discusses his Journal of Biblical Literature article “The Pro-Choice Biblical Ethic of American Evangelical Scholars before the Religious Right.” MacGregor’s article is focused on understanding the historical context of and changes since the 1968 Protestant Symposium on the Control of Human Reproduction. Resources mentioned or recommended in this episode include MacGregor’s book A Historical and Theological Investigation of John’s Gospel; historian Randall Balmer; Brave New People: Ethical Issues at the Commencement of Life; author Letha Scanzoni; “The ‘Biblical View’ That’s Younger than the Happy Meal”; Thy Kingdom Come: How the religious Right Distorts Faith and Threatens America; Broken Words: The Abuse of Science and Faith in American Politics; Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right; “The Religious Right and the Abortion Myth”; “How Evangelicals Decided that Life Begins at Conception”; and novelist Amy Gentry.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Alexiana Fry discusses her recent article from The Journal of Biblical Literature, “Don’t Feel It, Don’t Heal It: Ezekiel 24:15-27 and Divine Dissociation.” The discussion explores cultural constructs of grief, the role of authority in mourning, and the implications of dissociation as a coping mechanism. Fry emphasizes the importance of acknowledging grief and healing in the context of trauma, while also recommending further reading on these topics. Resources mentioned or recommended in this episode include the television series Severance; The Empire of Trauma: An Inquiry into the Condition of Victimhood; Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza; Male Friendship, Homosociality, and Women in the Hebrew Bible; Dr Kenneth J Doka; Dr Carly L Crouch; Dissociation Made Simple: A Stigma-Free Guide to Embracing Your Dissociative Mind and Navigating Daily Life; No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model; No Bad Parts!; Abingdon Old Testament Commentaries: Ezekiel; Trauma Theory, Trauma Story: A Narration of Biblical Studies and the World of Trauma; The Southern Reach Series; The Poppy War Trilogy; Babel: Or the Necessity of Violence: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators’ Revolution; and author Naomi Novick.

Things are looking good for the podcast in 2026! I have been fortunate enough to record nine interviews before the year has even started!!! Enjoy these previews from: Jonathan Sedlak: Reading Matthew, Trusting Jesus: Christian Tradition and First-Century Fulfillment within Matthew 24-25 Sara Koenig: The Ten Commandments through the Ages Marissa Franks Burt & Kelsey Kramer McGinnis: The Myth of Good Christian Parenting: How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families Eric Harvey: Reding Creation Myths Economically in Ancient Mesopotamia and Israel Jennie Grillo: “On Having a Body: Time and Divine Embodiment” Brian Walsh & Sylvia Keesmaat: Colossians Remixed: Subverting the Empire David Basher: “Saul and the Not-So-Holy Ghost: 1 Samuel 16:14-23 and Ghost-Induced Illness” Kirk MacGregor: “The Pro-Choice Biblical Ethics of American Evangelical Scholars before the Religious Right” Alexiana Fry: “Don’t Feel It, Don’t Heal It: Ezekiel 24:15-27 and Divine Dissociation”

Douglas Campbell discusses his journey through theology, focusing on the interpretation of Paul's letters, particularly Romans. He emphasizes the importance of rereading Romans 1-3 with greater emphasis on the overarching themes of love and grace found in the later chapters. Campbell critiques the traditional interpretations that lean towards a punitive understanding of God and advocates for a view of God as fundamentally loving and inclusive. He also shares his experiences working with prisons and the need for a compassionate approach to those incarcerated, highlighting the emotional and relational aspects of the gospel. This episode is based on one of Campbell’s chapters in the book Beyond Old and New Perspectives on Paul: Reflections on the Work of Douglas Campbell. The conversation concludes with recommendations including Richard Longenecker, Karl Bath, James Torrance, Stanley Hauerwas, Yokefellows, International Prison Chaplains Association, Beyond Justification: Liberating Paul’s Gospel, Apocalypse Here, Campbell’s website, Patrick O’Brian, Mick Herron, Jonathan Haidt, and Thomas Merton.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Peter Altmann and Caio Peres discuss their commentary on the Book of Numbers from the Tyndale Old Testament Commentaries. They explore the significance of biblical commentaries, the diverse perspectives brought by authors from different cultural backgrounds, and the importance of understanding the complexities of biblical texts. The conversation delves into themes such as the relevance of Numbers for contemporary faith communities, the nature of atonement and ritual, and the challenges of interpreting scripture within various cultural contexts. The guests emphasize the need for a nuanced approach to biblical interpretation that acknowledges the richness of the text and its implications for identity and community. Resources mentioned or recommended in this episode include torah.com, Timothy Ashley’s commentary on Numbers, Mitchel Modine’s commentary on Numbers, David Stubbs’ commentary on Numbers, Dennis Olson’s commentary on Numbers, Calvin’s commentaries on the Pentateuch, Rashi, Marilynne Robinson’s Home, the poetry of Wendell Berry, the poetry of Pablo Neruda, and Tooth & Nail Records.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Mark Goodacre discusses his expertise in New Testament studies, focusing on the synoptic gospels and their interrelations. He challenges common misconceptions about the term 'synoptic' and emphasizes the importance of literary production over oral tradition in understanding the gospels. Goodacre argues for Markan priority and explores the unique theological perspectives and literary styles of each gospel writer. He also delves into the chronology of the gospels' production and their dissemination in early Christian communities. The discussion concludes with recommendations for further reading and insights into Goodacre's personal interests. Check out Mark’s book The Fourth Gospel: John’s Knowledge of Matthew, Mark, and Luke! Other resources and recommendations from this episode include Kenneth Bailey, Theodore Weeden, Writing and Rewriting the Gospels: John and the Synoptics, The Gospel of John: A New History, Introduction to the New Testament, Biblical Time Machine, scholar Bart Ehrman, New Testament Review, Apocalypse Here, author W Somerset Maugham, Doctor Who, Star Trek, rock band Wolf Alice, and rock band The Beaches (with their song Did I Say Too Much).

Stacia Deutsch, a children's book author and rabbi, shares her insights on Hanukkah, exploring its history, traditions, and significance in Jewish culture. She discusses the origins of Hanukkah, the miracle of the oil, and how the holiday has evolved into a time of celebration and community. Stacia also highlights the importance of charity during Hanukkah and the various cultural practices associated with the holiday. The conversation delves into the role of Jewish identity and the communal aspects of celebrating Hanukkah, making it a rich and informative discussion for listeners. Stacia’s book is titled Celebrating Hanukkah: History, Traditions, and Activities: A Holiday Book for Kids. Other resources and recommendations from the conversation include Leah’s Perfect Gift, Hanukkah on Rye, A Rugrats Chanukah, and Thursday Murder Club.

Evan Vossman shares insights into the Hebrew Bible and the complexities of biblical interpretation. He also delves into the documentary hypothesis, the role of ideology in biblical texts, and how to engage with scripture in a meaningful way. You can access his zine, Tour of the Torah, here. Other resources mentioned or recommended in this episode include E Theodore Mullen, RN Whybray, The SBL Study Bible, David M Carr, Peter Enns, Yonatan Adler, Yair Furstenburg, Rober Alter, Meier Sternberg, Adele Berlin, Joel Baden, Jeffrey Stackert, John Van Seters, Phillip Davies, Niels Peter Lemche, Diana Edelman, Biblical minimalism (Copenhagen school), David Aaron, Jesus and the Law of Moses, Jesus and the Jewish Law Podcast, Why the Bible Began, and Nature’s God.

Jennifer Houston McNeel sit down with Jared to talk about her book Under Her Wings: Mothers and Motherhood in the New Testament. She explores the use of maternal language, the cultural context of Greco-Roman family values, and the significance of women in biblical genealogies. The discussion also touches on the theological implications of motherhood and the role of Mary in the incarnation, highlighting how these themes resonate with contemporary understandings of motherhood. Resources mentioned or recommended in this episode include Andrew Peterson’s Behold the Lamb of God; Blessed Among Women? Mothers and Motherhood in the New Testament; Women in the Bible; Women Remembered: Jesus’ Female Disciples; What Jesus Learned from Women; Women and the Gender of God; Finding Phoebe: What New Testament Women Were Really Like; Chief Inspector Gamache Series; and Lord of the Rings.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Greg Carey, a New Testament scholar, discusses his book Rereading Revelation: Theology, Ethics, and Resistance. He brings his unique insights on the book of Revelation, its apocalyptic nature, and its implications for understanding Jesus and early Christian communities. He emphasizes the importance of reading Revelation as a Jewish text, the symbolism of the Lamb versus the Lion, and the ethical challenges posed by its violent imagery. Carey also explores the relevance of Revelation in contemporary contexts, particularly regarding issues of loyalty, resistance, and the call for nonviolent action against oppression. Resources mentioned or recommended in this conversation include Comfort and Protest: The Apocalypse of John from a South African Perspective; scholar Anna Bowden, Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America; Revelation for Normal People: A Guide to the Strangest and Most Dangerous Book in the Bible; Discovering Revelation: Content, Interpretation, Reception; Reading Revelation Responsibly: Uncivil Worship and Witness: Following the Lamb into the New Creation; Annette Yoshiko Reed; Breaking the Code: Understanding the Book of Revelation; Can I Get a Witness? Reading Revelation through African American Culture; James Baldwin; Flannery O’Connor; John Kennedy Toole; Kurt Vonnegut; and Demon Copperhead.

William Owens discusses his chapter “Literary Constructions and Stereotypes of Slavery” from the book Ancient Slavery and Its New Testament Contexts. He also discusses his academic journey and insights into the literary constructions of slavery in ancient texts. He emphasizes the importance of reading against the grain to uncover the voices of the enslaved and critiques the stereotypes and power dynamics present in these narratives. The discussion also explores the role of tenant farmers versus enslaved individuals, cultural reflections on slavery in modern media, and the complexities of enslaved characters in literature. Owens concludes with recommendations for further reading including Slavery and Society at Rome, Slave Theater in the Roman Republic: Plautus and Popular Comedy, and the works of author Robert Harris.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Samuel Wells is back to discuss his book Power and Passion: Six Characters in Search of Resurrection! The book in an exploration of the intertwining themes of power, passion, and resurrection through the lens of biblical characters. Wells emphasizes the importance of community engagement and the methodology of Lectio Divina in understanding scripture. The discussion also delves into the political implications of these themes in contemporary society, urging listeners to reflect on their own relationships and responsibilities. Resources mentioned in this episode include The Passion of Political Love, Six Characters in Search of an Author, and support to World Central Kitchen.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Gad Barnea discusses his research on Achaemenid Zoroastrianism and its connections to early Yahwism. He explores the historical context of Zoroastrianism, its cultic practices, and the assimilation of deities in ancient religions. Barnea also highlights significant artifacts, such as ostraca, that provide insights into the religious practices of the time. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding these ancient belief systems and their influence on one another, as well as recommendations for further reading on the subject. Recommendations mentioned in this podcast include Yahwism Under the Achaemenid Empire and The Origins of Judaism.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Ellen De Doncker discusses her PhD dissertation A Human God?: A Comparative Analysis of Anthropomorphisms in the Hebrew and Greek Pentateuch. She outlines her research objectives, including a comparative analysis of anthropomorphic language in both texts, the challenges of defining anthropomorphism, and the role of translators in shaping the meaning of biblical texts. Ellen emphasizes the importance of cultural context and the theological implications of the Septuagint, while also addressing the complexities of qualitative versus quantitative analysis in translation. Resources recommended or mentioned in this episode include Multiple Authorship of the Septuagint Pentateuch: The Original Translators of the Pentateuch; God: An Anatomy; The Ani-Anthropomorphism in the Greek Pentateuch; the work of her doctoral promoter Has Ausloos on anthropomorphism; Toward a Theology of the Septuagint: Stellenbosch Congress on the Septuagint, 2018; Il Barone Rampante; and The Scholomance Series.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Garrick Allen and Kimberly Fowler delve into the fascinating world of biblical manuscripts, focusing on Codex H and its significance in biblical studies. They explore the intricacies of textual criticism, the role of individual manuscripts in understanding early Christianity, and the collaborative process behind their recent article. The conversation highlights the importance of manuscript terminology, the treatment of sacred texts in different cultures, and the rich history of manuscript preservation and restoration. Resources recommended in this episode include The Living Texts of the Gospels; To Cast the First Stone: The Transmission of a Gospel Story; Words Are Not Enough: Paratexts, Manuscripts, and the Real New Testament; and Working with Manuscripts: A Guide for Textual Scholars. Garrick and Kim also recommend Ernest Hemingway and JRR Tolkien for leisure reading. Garrick and Kim’s article is available for free here.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.

Tommy Woodward discusses his Journal of Biblical Literature article “Theorizing Laughter and Ethnicity in Philo’s Embassy to Gaius.” He delves into how Philo uses laughter as a tool for social commentary and critique, particularly against the Egyptian population, while also addressing the complexities of ethnic identity in the ancient world. Tommy shares insights from his academic journey, including his methodology and the creation of a database to track instances of laughter in ancient texts, highlighting the nuanced interpretations of laughter in Hellenistic Judaism. Resources mentioned in this episode include the work of Denise Kimber Buell and Stanley Fish, New World A-Coming: Black Religion and Racial Identity during the Great Migration, Laughter in Ancient Rome: On Joking, Tickling, and Cracking Up, Greek Laughter: A Study of Cultural Psychology from Homer to Early Christianity, Hundreds of Beavers, Moby Dick, Buffalo Hunter Hunter, and Small Gods by Terry Pratchett. Additionally, Jared mentioned a joke form the sitcom 30 Rock.   Follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Amazon/Audible, iHeartRadio, Player FM, Listen Notes, Podchaser, Boomplay. Please reach out with guest suggestions and/or feedback at itmeanswhatitmeans@gmail.com. If you would like to support the podcast financially, you can hear episodes a week early for $5 a month on Patreon. You can also get updates and promotional clips if you follow us on YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, Bluesky, Spoutible, Twitter, Threads, Wordpress, and Tumblr.