The Gravity Well with Jenny Yeremiy

In this the first episode of third season of The Gravity Well, Jenny provides updates on her activism in Alberta, including her work on recall campaigns and efforts to address provincial concerns. She shares her background as a geophysicist and liability expert, highlighting her transition from the oil and gas industry to focus on restoration efforts in Alberta, British Columbia, and Saskatchewan. Jenny discusses her passion for environmental restoration and her wanting to be working within the fossil fuel industry to achieve these goals.The podcast also covers various recall campaigns across Alberta, with Jenny expressing gratitude for the contributions of numerous volunteers and canvassers. She highlights the importance of community involvement and encourages participation in citizen assemblies to address public issues such as public school funding, coal mining, and public health.Jenny addresses the challenges faced by teachers in Alberta, including the impact of the Back to School Act, which restricted teachers’ rights to strike, negotiate, and work in safe conditions. She emphasizes the need for public engagement and action to address these issues.The podcast concludes with a call to action for listeners to get involved in recall campaigns through operationtotalrecall.ca to uphold democratic values. And to focus on water through the Eastern Slope Watershed Protection Assemblies to begin with to safeguard and reclaim public interests in Alberta and beyond. Here’s that great action you can take, feel free to edit and send to any UCP Caucus & Alberta MLA you see fit!Write to Assistant-Minister of Multiculturalism & MLA for Calgary-North, Hon. Muhammad Yaseen via: Calgary.North@assembly.ab.ca Dear Hon. Muhammad Yaseen–Assistant Minister of Multiculturalism and MLA for Calgary-North,I am writing to you as an (add if applicable: Calgary-North constituent or) Albertan who is genuinely frightened.I am watching what is happening in the United States, studying the steps that brought them to their current reality, and increasingly recognizing those same steps being taken here in Alberta. What we are witnessing south of the border is not sudden—it is the outcome of years of political decisions made when party loyalty was placed above the common good.I wrote to you or your leader asking that you protect minority groups—specifically trans youth—who already face disproportionately high rates of suicide, discrimination, and violence. I asked you not to support legislation that would strip them of their rights. I asked, directly, who the next target of the Notwithstanding Clause would be if it was used so readily against a vulnerable minority.You did not respond. Instead, you voted in favour of using the Notwithstanding Clause against teachers in Bill 2: the Back to School Act (Oct 27, 2025), which imposed terms on striking teachers: ordered them back to work into unsafe conditions without arbitration. Then on December 10, 2025, you voted in favour of that legislation I wrote you about — the Protecting Alberta’s Children Statutes Amendment Act (Bill 9, on Dec 10, 2025) — which invoked the notwithstanding clause to shield multiple anti-trans laws from Charter challenge.This is not an abstract concern. It is recognizing a pattern.We are watching law enforcement in the United States become increasingly militarized and brutalized against civilians. Alberta itself has a troubling history of law enforcement struggling under strained services and a lack of preventative support. Yet you voted in support of creating an additional provincial police force rather than strengthening support and accountability within our existing systems — through legislation such as the Public Safety and Emergency Services Statutes Amendment Act (Bill 4, 2025) and prior clauses enabling an independent provincial police service.We are witnessing the murder of protesters, the abduction of children, and the detention and deportation of legal citizens in the United States. And yet, when separatists in Alberta openly praised joining the United States as a “51st state” and called for legislative changes to allow an otherwise unconstitutional separatist petition to proceed, you voted in favour of Bill 14: Justice Statutes Amendment Act (2025), which amended the Citizen Initiative Act and the provincial referendum framework to remove the safeguards that had prevented such petitions from moving forward.At each of these moments, through your privileged position of power, you have voted in ways that bring Alberta closer to the political conditions we are watching unfold in the United States—and further from the safety, freedom, and democratic stability we cherish in Canada.You cannot undo the votes you have already cast.But you can still show Albertans that you are unwilling to let the UCP lead this province further down that path. Demonstrate your lack of support for separation and the above by stepping aside from the UCP caucus and party. You can use your voice to state clearly that you support conservatism rooted in democratic restraint and respect for rights—not separatism, authoritarianism, or governance by override. Not the pollution of our drinking water, not an Alberta Police Force. Not the stripping of our Canadian Pension Plans. Reinstate the rights of municipalities and restore their funding. Redirect fossil fuel funding towards public schools and hospitals.You can resign in honour, sending a message to your party that these are not the values you—or your Calgary-North constituents—stand for.I am asking you, sincerely and urgently, to stand up for us so that Alberta does not become the 51st state, by name or by nature. Look to the state of Puerto Rico to know what this will look like for Alberta and Canada by extension.Truly,Jenny Yeremiy, P. Geoph and Calgary-Bow, Alberta, Canada resident and citizen.Adapted from Julietta Sorensen Kass’s letter issued to you. Cc Premier of Alberta | UCP Leader Smith Premier@gov.ab.ca Cc MLA for | NDP Leader Nenshi edmonton.strathcona@assembly.ab.ca & Nenshi@albertandp.ca Cc MLA for Airdrie-West | APTP Leader Guthrie airdrie.cochrane@assembly.ab.ca & info@albertaparty.ca Cc Your MLA for Calgary-Bow | Education Minister Nicolaides Calgary.Bow@assembly.ab.ca This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thegravitywell.net/subscribe

This episode about the future, is the last of the 2025 mini-series on Water in Southern Alberta. It features experts J. Bruce Smedley, a 50-year engineer, and Kennedy Halverson, a conservation expert with the Alberta Wilderness Association. We discuss topics such as irrigation, resource extraction, and water security. The conversation highlights the over-allocation of water resources, the need for comprehensive water management, and the importance of biodiversity conservation. The podcast advocates for a dedicated water preservation agency to address these challenges and emphasizes the role of public pressure in driving much-needed change. A wonderful conversation!Introduction of Kennedy Halvorson and a Re-Introduction of J. Bruce SmedleyWelcome to The Gravity Well Podcast with me Jenny Yeremiy. I host The Gravity Well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty 7 and Metis districts 5 and 6. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples were created to honour the laws of the land maintained balance with nature and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide The Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts, and openness to different perspectives. This is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of The Gravity Well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The Gravity Well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see in here, remember to like and subscribe.Good afternoon, Bob. Thank you so much for being here again with me. How are you doing today?Bob:I’m doing okay. Fine, have a cold.Jenny:Try to get around that. Yeah. Thank you so much, Bob. Good afternoon everyone. I’m rejoined here with Bob for what is potentially our last water in Southern Alberta podcast, potentially of the well likely of the year, and potentially there may be more in the new year. Let’s see. We’re hoping to potentially have a conversation with Bob Sanford, but we’re going to bring in some of his thoughts into this conversation from Cop 30. Stay tuned for any of those details. This is episode 12 in this mini series. On this episode is on the future of water in Southern Alberta. We’ll be chatting with Bruce Smedley, who participated last year in episodes 18 and 22, and Bob and I are thrilled to welcome Kennedy Halverson of the Alberta Wilderness Association as well. We’ll get to them in a moment. Reminding folks, we have covered irrigation, resource extraction, the Water Act and licence transfer system, water modelling watershed and lake stewardship, dry land irrigated and ranch farming insurance. And then after a summer break, we returned to meet with Dr. Brad Sta Fox to learn about land use limits. Dr. David Sauchyn on climate change, Dr. David Swan and Jason Unger on water security, and Dr. Judy Stewart and Cheryl Bradley about Aquatic and health. Sorry, aquatic and riparian health. It’s been quite a learning experience. I’m so appreciative of you, Bob, for your leadership through this. This wouldn’t have been possible without you, and I’m super grateful for all the work you’ve done and for everyone that you have brought forward. And for all I’ve learned, this has just been remarkable.Bob:Well, back at you, Jenny, for all your organizational skills. Speak to this is totally disorganized on most days.Jenny:Yes, you’re very humble. You have done so much work in this and you have kept us all on track to do this. Like I said, this has been an incredible experience and I’m just so grateful for it. Okay, let’s welcome first Bruce Smedley back to the studio. Thank you so much, Bruce for being here again with us.J. Bruce:Well welcome to be here. I do appreciate it and I appreciate the work you’ve done so far in the podcast to date and I urge people to watch them. There’s a lot of information there.Jenny:Thank you, Bruce. Bruce has a master’s in, excuse me, and bachelor’s in chemical engineering. He studied in both British Columbia and Alberta. He has over 50 years of industry, government and global bank experience, which is a trifecta. It’s quite incredible in both the public and private sectors. Bob and I know Bruce from the 4C group, so that’s our Calgary Citizens on Climate Change group. We meet Thursday mornings to help each other learn and attempt different strategies to help inform people about these critically important issues and how to move ideas forward together. He also last year during episode 22, which I do encourage you to watch as well in the context of this work, he brought forward the idea of an integrated water resource preservation and restoration agency. So I’m sure we’ll discuss that. Welcome back, Bruce. Thank you for being here. Okay, so Kennedy, thank you so much, Kennedy for joining us.Kennedy Halverson is currently with the Alberta Wilderness Association. She has a BSc in chemistry. She did a stint of honeybee research that convinced her to be that work at climate controlled laboratory bench. It led her to work with the climate controlled laboratory bench. Fast forward through a graduate degree in environmental studies focused on native plants and pollinator conservation. Kennedy has worked in research and projects on food policy for Canada, finding flowers at York University. Before joining the Alberta Wilderness Association, she helped develop a bumblebee pathogen sampling protocol for environment and climate change. Canada, it’s just wonderful to have you here, Kennedy. I was saying before we went live that I get the opportunity to see you in such a different space. You spoke so well at the coal hearings in Southern Alberta and you’ve just been such a big voice for conservation in the province. It’s just such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you.Kennedy:Thanks for having me. Yeah, no, hearing the cast of people who’ve been on the episodes preceding me, they’re all people I really look up to in this field, it feels a little big shoes to fill to be here to talk. I don’t know if I’ll say anything new that they haven’t already set, but we’ll see.Jenny:Funny enough, you came up actually several times, Kennedy, with your expertise, I appreciate your humility, but you are very, very on equal footing in this conversation, so thank you. Why, before we dive in, we forgot to mention, I would love to just hear a little bit about how you came into this work. Kennedy, it sounds like you started having interest in bees and that’s what led you into the work that you do now. Is that right?Kennedy:Yeah, yeah. I definitely started at a biochemistry bench and realized I did not want to stay in a lab my whole life working on proteins. I needed to work on something a little bit bigger and then I was with honeybees and salmon and then I got an interest in our native species and that led me into conservation. And I wasn’t able to do a master’s in biology because the prof that I wanted to work with, she didn’t have any spaces left for that. But she said take a master’s of environmental studies. And I said, sure, I’ll do that. I’ll do it on native plants and pollinators. And it ended up being a really happy accident because I think it gave me the opportunity to work in a lot of different disciplines that now inform my conservation work today. And water is one of those things that pops up everywhere. When I was working in food policy, water is a really important input to agriculture. It’s an important for health anyways. It pops up everywhere. I just keep finding it. And then when I joined AWA as a conservation specialist, I was given the waterfowl to work on and have been immersed in water policy ever since.Jenny:Fantastic. Same for you, Bruce. What brought you into this climate work? Initially IJ. Bruce:Fishing. I do a lot of fishing around the province and I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time. I’ve fallen out of a canoe several times and thought that I should maybe go to a row boat and float down the Bow river south of Calgary. And I just have a great appreciation for a lot of the water systems. I used to ski on the glaciers, I’ve watched their progress over the years. I have that history from a technical point of view. I started out in wastewater treatment systems for meat packing plants, actually in British Columbia. I worked on that for a while. I worked on the pulp and paper industry. I worked in the cattle industry. I worked on a lot of oil and gas projects over the years. And at some point in my life I got asked to go to Thailand and give a talk. And since then I’ve travelled the world on behalf of the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank to look specifically at the interface between people and the projects that they were funding and the consequences on the community and on the culture and that as they relate to these projects. I’ve had a lot of interesting projects to look at in and in a lot of industries as well.Jenny:Yeah, you bring such a broad perspective to this dialogue, Bruce. I’m much appreciated. Okay, Bob, I will let you lead off the questions, please. Thank you.What is working in water management, use, and protection?Bob (00:09:45):Okay. I’ll start with a pretty basic question. In terms of the future, what are the strengths and weaknesses in our system of managing water, using water, protecting water here in southern Alberta? Just basically what are the good things that we’ve got that we want to make sure we strengthen, at least keep? And what are those things that we really want to improve upon? I’ll start with

This episode features Professor Mark Jacobson of Stanford University, who has focused his career on understanding air pollution and climate problems and developing renewable energy solutions. Jacobson criticizes carbon capture technology, arguing it increases CO2 emissions and air pollution, and is primarily used to justify continued fossil fuel development. He advocates for a transition to 100% renewable energy, which could reduce world energy demand by 54% and eliminate a significant number of air pollution-related deaths.Jacobson highlights the inefficiency and high costs of carbon capture compared to renewable energy solutions, which offer greater health, environmental, and economic benefits. He also addresses concerns about the mining required for renewable technologies, noting that it is significantly less than that for fossil fuels. The transition to renewables is feasible and beneficial, particularly in resource-rich countries like Canada. Jenny adds that ecological services need to be restored to genuinely reduce carbon emissions and address water and land contamination and degradation, with renewable and battery technology deployment. Want this, fellow Canadian, as the alternative is clearly a lie.Introduction to Stanford University Professor Mark JacobsonJenny (00:05):Welcome to The Gravity Well Podcast with me, Jenny Yeremiy. I host The Gravity Well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty 7 and Metis districts 5 and 6. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples are created to honour the laws of the land, maintain balance with nature, and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide The Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts, and openness to different perspectives. This is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of The Gravity Well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The Gravity Well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see and hear, remember to like and subscribe.Good afternoon, everyone. Today’s interview is very meaningful to me. I’ve mentioned on several occasions now that I worked as a geophysicist and liability expert in the oil and gas industry in Alberta for over 20 years. I worked in the office next to the individual who is credited with the birth of the Pathways Alliance. The Pathways Alliance is a project intended to offer mitigation for CO2 emissions to justify future fossil fuel development in Canada. It’s the biggest project of its kind in terms of concept and justifies things like LNG and Oil Sands development plans. On that note, I am thrilled to be having a discussion with Professor Mark Jacobson today of Stanford University. Welcome to the stage, Mark.Mark (02:12):Hi, Jenny. Thanks for having me on.Jenny (02:14):Yeah, thank you so much. As I was saying off stage, I have to go through an extensive introduction of Mark, bear with me, Mark as I do so. Mark Jacobson has been a professor at Stanford University since 1994. His research has crossed two fields, atmospheric science and energy. Mark’s career has focused on better understanding air pollution and climate problems, and developing large scale clean renewable energy solutions to them. He’s developed and applied three computer models: atmosphere, biosphere and ocean, and has used their simulations to understand air pollution, weather, climate, and renewable energy systems. He’s developed roadmap maps to transitions in countries, states, and cities towards a hundred percent clean renewable energy. Mark has also published 191 peer reviewed journals and articles. He’s given over 800 talks. He founded and has directed the Atmospheric Energy Program at Stanford. He’s published seven books. Four of those are related to atmospheric work, and the last three are related to his energy work. And based on all of this, Mark is ranked as number six in terms of publication since 1980. Wow. Thank you so much, Mark, for taking the time to be with me today.Mark (03:32):Yeah, thanks for having me on.Jenny (03:34):Yeah, if you don’t mind, actually, I didn’t mention off stage, but I’d love to hear a little bit of what brought you into this work. What’s been your journey to this? A lot of people will say it’s just a love of nature or whatever. What brought you into the climate field? Can you say?Mark (03:50):Well, when I was a kid, when I was playing tennis, I travelled to Los Angeles and San Diego, and especially in San Diego, the air pollution was so bad. I thought, why should people live like this? I wanted to solve that problem ever since then. And I focused my studies and my research on doing that. For the last 36 years as a scientist, I’ve been trying to understand and solve large scale air pollution and climate problems through clean renewable energy. Part of my work has been to understand the problems. That’s where computer model development came in. And then overlapping the last 25 years now, I’ve been trying to solve the problems. When you’re looking at solutions, I mean, I first look at carbon capture back in 2008, and nothing’s really changed since then except it’s been implemented. Trying the policies, trying to implement it have been expanded a bit, but no actual benefit because as I’ll talk about, carbon capture only increases carbon dioxide. It should be called carbon release, not carbon capture. No kidding.Jenny (05:01):Yeah. I was saying to you, I also have had exposure since that time about, actually, I worked two fields in Canada that doing what we called CO2 flooding at the time. That’s what we would call carbon capture utilization and storage, I suppose. But we would see breakthrough, what we would call breakthrough from one well to another instantly, almost within a week. To me, the idea of capturing this carbon and sequestering it long-term is not a practical solution. Rather, the site cleanup and storage or cleanup and closure of sites would do both things. Well, actually three things, as you were mentioning with the water system, the land system, and the air pollution all in one. Anyway, that’s how I came into this work as well, Mark. Let’s start with why are we talking about carbon capture and storage? If you can just remind people what was the intention of this technology to do in terms of justifying new fossil fuel development, let’s say?The Justification for Carbon Capture and Storage (Hint: there isn’t one)Mark (06:04):Well, the justification was that, well, really it’s fossil fuel companies wanted to keep their fuels moving, being sold. And because of all the policies that were being put in place, they had to come up with a way to keep doing that and also pretend to keep selling fossil fuels, but then pretend as if they’re actually helping to solve the problem. They came up with this idea carbon capture, where you add equipment to, let’s say a coal plant to where the carbon dioxide emitted from the coal plant gets absorbed and then basically captured as a gas, and then that CO2 is compressed and put in a pipeline and then piped somewhere. In theory, they were saying most of it would be piped for storage and be put underground and stored forever. In reality, 82% of all their carbon captured worldwide to date has been used to just drill for more oil through what’s called enhanced oil recovery, where the carbon dioxide is piped to a nearby oil field. The CO2 is then mixed with the oil, it bonds with the oil, makes the oil less dense, more of it floats to the surface faster. And for every ton of carbon dioxide, you get a couple more barrels of oil.Even if you’re just that process alone, by the way, 30 to 40% of the CO2 captured during this enhanced oil recovery process is released right back to the air during the enhanced oil recovery process. And then the additional barrels of oil you get, depending on whether they replace existing oil or their new oil, there’s 20 to 80% more of the CO2 gets released to the air by burning this oil. You end up with 50 to 130% of the CO2 captured just going back to the air just from enhanced oil recovery, which I, again, 82% of all the CO2, that’s what happens to it. Right there, you’re having no benefit. And that’s not even the worst part of it, which we’ll probably talk about later. I’m just saying right off the get go, it’s a useless technology that is only designed to keep the fossil fuel industry going. There’s no benefit whatsoever to humankind.Jenny (08:33):Right. Thank you so much. Yeah, we would call that tertiary production. That’s what we refer to it in the industry is when you’ve got, you can do just regular primary production and then you can do water flood production, which is what we’d call secondary enhanced and then enhanced, sorry, being the third that CO2 injection, whether you’re doing natural gas flooding or CO2 flooding or Yeah, that’s basically the two that I’ve been involved in. But yeah, and like I said, in all of those cases, you’re right, I’ve only been involved in where we’re using it to produce more production. We’re not actually using it to store it and be able to know that that’s being stored long-term. And the other thing, if we can, since we have a little time, I want to talk a bit about the impacts of CO2 and other, let’s call it contaminants in the natural gas system, which causes actual risks to pipelines, et cetera, from erosion. And there needs to be, or yeah, corrosion I should be saying in those pipelines based on these additives,

The Water in Southern Alberta podcast miniseries covers topics such as irrigation, resource extraction, water security, and climate change, featuring experts like Dr. Brad Stelfox and Dr. David Swann. The series seeks feedback to provide summaries and recommendations for legislative change.This episode features Cheryl Bradley, Judy Stewart, and David Barrett who bring diverse expertise in environmental management, law, and aquatic health. Cheryl Bradley has been involved in water management planning in southern Alberta for decades, focusing on river conservation. Judy Stewart, a retired lawyer and poet, emphasizes the importance of water management in municipal planning. David Barrett, a researcher at the University of Calgary, studies aquatic ecosystems and advocates for water protection.The podcast discusses complex water management issues, including the impact of irrigation on river health, the role of municipalities in land use planning, and the need for comprehensive data collection to monitor water quality and flow. Concerns are raised about recent amendments to the Water Act, which may increase director discretion and affect water conservation efforts.Introductions to Cheryl Bradley and Dr. Judy Stewart, and a Re-introduction of David BarrettWelcome to The Gravity Well Podcast with me, Jenny Yeremiy. I host the gravity well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty 7 and Metis districts 5 and 6. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples who are created to honour the laws of the land, maintain balance with nature, and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide the Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts, and openness to different perspectives. This is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of the gravity well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The Gravity Well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see and hear, remember to like and subscribe.Good afternoon, Bob. How are you today?Bob:Pretty good. And you, Jenny?Jenny:I’m well, thank you. Yes, I’m excited. This just keeps getting better. We’ve been through the first half of this In May, we did seven episodes. We spoke about irrigation, the history of irrigation, resource extraction, the water act and licence transfer system, water modelling, watershed and lake stewardship, dry land, irrigated, ranch, land, farming and insurance. And then we returned just this month to talk with Dr. Brad Stel Fox. We spoke about land use limits, Dr. David Soin. We discussed coping with climate change. Yesterday we met with David Swan and Jason Unger to talk about water security. Encourage everyone to listen to each of those podcasts. We are looking for feedback and input for all that we want to do with this work. At the end of the day, we want to provide a summary, a written summary, and some recommendations to people that are focused in these areas and have the power to potentially make enact change in legislation. Was that a good summary of what we’re up to, Bob?Bob:That’s great, Jenny.Jenny:Wonderful. Okay. Just a reminder to everyone, please like and subscribe to The Gravity Well so that the time and effort that people put into this is worthwhile. It does matter you paying intention and engaging and sharing this with your community. Thank you for that. Alright, let’s get going here today. I am super excited to invite first off, Cheryl Bradley to the stage. Thank you so much for being with us, Cheryl.Cheryl:Thank you very much for having me. Jenny and Bob, this is a very important topic in southern Alberta.Jenny:Thank you. Cheryl has represented environmental interest in numerous water and watershed management planning processes in southern Alberta for four decades. She has also engaged in regulatory processes regarding water allocation decisions. She began her career as a professional biologist studying cottonwood forests along the rivers in southern Alberta, and has facilitated the development and strategy for their conservation. Cheryl lives in Lethbridge now, and I’m proud to say I had your husband on the show last year to speak about water and restoration in Alberta. It’s just such a pleasure to meet you both and to have the opportunity to speak with you. Thank you for being here.Cheryl:Thank you.Jenny:Can you offer a little bit more of your background? What brought you into this work before we bring the others through?Cheryl:It’s a love of rivers. I love to paddle rivers and I have paddled a lot of rivers in southern Alberta and I enjoy healthy wild places. I really spend a fair bit of time in the eastern slopes, which is the headwaters, which is where 80% of the flow in our rivers comes from. And I just love to think about the connections of rivers flows and the life that’s in them and along them because they’re intimately connected and I enjoy trying to understand that.Jenny:Wonderful, wonderful. Okay, I’m going to go ahead and bring on our next guest. We welcome Dr. Judy Stewart to the stage now. Thank you for being here, Judy. I’m just going to switch the settings here. We’ve got Whoops. No, I want to do this one. That’s what it was. Excellent. I’ll bring myself here. Okay. Thank you Judy for being here. Judy was a research fellow at the Canadian Institute of Resource Law and is now the chair of the Policy and Legislative Committee for the Bow River Basin Watershed Council. She’s a retired lawyer and is now a poet and lives in Cochrane. Welcome to the studio. Judy, would you please elaborate a little bit on what brought you into this work for us, please?Judy:I guess I spent most of my life as a child in water. I’ve been immersed in water my entire life. As you say, I live in Cochrane and the beautiful bow river flows by who could not want to be involved in water management activities. I’ve been very, very blessed my entire life with having connections to water and the watersheds that I live in. And I see this as an opportunity to give back something of the way I’ve lived my entire life to society and especially to my community. It’s something I live with every day and I enjoy. I am not a paddler, I’m not a swimmer, but I certainly spent a lot of time in water getting thrown in there and playing in it. We didn’t have lakes where I grew up. What we had was some rivers and creeks and ponds, dump ponds and woodlands and swamps. I grew up in Quebec where there’s lots of swamps, and it’s a different immersion than what Cheryl’s talking about. I guess that’s what you could say. I’ve had to defend water bodies my entire career as a lawyer. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to find mechanisms and legal platforms to protect the water bodies in my community and elsewhere. I think that’s a launching pad for everything else I have to say today.Jenny:Incredible. I’ve had the opportunity to see you, Judy, at work in the Bow River Basin Council meeting. You held a meeting, I believe it was in May of last year when we were very concerned about water shortages and it was very well run. It was probably one of the best meetings I’ve been to in that. Thank you for everybody who keeps in this work as you retire so vital for the knowledge to be ongoing, and I appreciate you learning as we go. Thank you so much. Okay, lastly, I’m happy to welcome David Barrett to the stage. Thank you so much for being here, David. David actually participated, this is a return of David to the stage here. He participated in the series I did with the Calgary Environmental Roundtable for the municipal election. Unfortunately, David did not get into a position, but obviously he’s doing very important work at the U of C, I’m really excited to talk about that.David is a researcher who’s focused on the aquatic health. He manages the aquatic ecology lab where they undertake a wide range of research, including looking at the impacts of municipal wastewater on the Basil food web of the Beau River. And he has a number of different projects. He’s done a number of different projects, excuse me, in the Athabasca oil sands region and other cold lake aquatic research. I’m sure you and I need to go for lunch and talk about that. But instead, can you please elaborate a little more on what brought you into this work, David, and yeah, just anything else you’d like to add.David:Absolutely. Yeah, similar to Judy and Cheryl, I’ve long been immersed or around water. I’ve worked in rivers, lakes, ponds, wetlands, the whole gamut. I’ve been really privileged that I’ve had the opportunity to work in the Arctic in southern Alberta, in BC, all around. And it’s just so important. Water is life and if we do not protect that, if we are not advocating for water, there’s so many just different knock on effects that happen after that. I’m really excited. I said to you, Jenny, I think my expertise is dwarfed by that of Judy and Cheryl. I am excited to also be taking in a lot. I’ve also been involved with the Bow River Basin Council on state of the watershed reporting and a few other things. I’m also deeply immersed in this world.Jenny:Wonderful. Yes, I love how humble everybody is in this work too. It’s impressive. Okay, I’m going to let Bob take over here. Bob, you can lead us off with our first questions, please.What are the water conservation objectives?Bob (00:10:01):Okay. Let me get down to a basic acronym problem. Cheryl, can you tell me the difference between WCO’s, IF’s, all the other acronyms that are out t

This is episode 10 of a miniseries on Water in Southern Alberta with co-host Bob Morrison, discussing topics such as water security, irrigation history, resource extraction impacts, and climate change. Guests include Dr. David Swann, a retired medical doctor and former politician and founder of the Fish Creek Watershed Association (FCWA), who emphasizes the importance of water quality and quantity, and Jason Unger, executive director of the Environmental Law Centre, who discusses legal frameworks and environmental accountability. The conversation highlights challenges in water management, including the need for better monitoring, compliance, and public engagement to ensure sustainable water use and protect aquatic ecosystems. This conversation underscores the urgency of addressing water issues in the face of climate change and the importance of community involvement in water policy decisions.Reintroductions to Dr. David Swann and Jason UngerJenny (00:00:05):Welcome to The Gravity Well Podcast with me Jenny Yeremiy. I host The Gravity Well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty 7 and Metis districts 5 and 6. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples are created to honour the laws of the land, maintain balance with nature, and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide The Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts and openness to different perspectives. And this is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of The Gravity Well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The Gravity Well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see and hear, remember to like and subscribe.Hello Bob, how are you doing today?Bob:Pretty good. How are you, Jenny?Jenny:Good, thank you. We were always trying to get through so much. I forgot to just slow down and say hello. Yes, thank you so much. This has been a great start to the second half of the water, sorry, water in Southern Alberta’s miniseries. How do you think it’s going? Bob, are you pleased so far?Bob:We’ve learned even more than we didn’t know, and we’re starting to get down to the tough questions about water security. What about the aquatic environment and what does the future hold? I’m looking forward to thisJenny:Very much so. Yes, and we have some incredible people who’ve already participated and I’m super excited about hearing from the people we have today and ongoing super good turnout and great dialogue so far. We went through the history of irrigation, the impacts of resource extraction on water, the water act and licence transfer system, the water cycle and modelling watershed and lake stewardship, dry land, irrigated and ranch, land farming and the impacts of climate change on water with respect to insurance. That was the first half of the program. We then met with Brad Stelfox to speak about land use limits and Dr. Dave Sauchyn to discuss how we cope with Climate Change in Southern Alberta. I encourage everyone to listen to each of those and this one of course. I’m going to start with Dr. David Swann to welcome Dr. David Swann back to the studio. Hi David, how are you today?David:All good, thanks Jenny. Great to be with you.Jenny:Great. Firstly, Dr. David Swann is a friend and collaborator of, and Bob and me. David is a retired medical doctor who focused on preventative medicine and he became a politician. He was the leader of the Alberta Liberal Party and the leader of the opposition in Alberta legislature from December, 2008 until September, 2011. He returned as an interim leader of the Alberta Liberal Party on February 1st, 2015. That’s very specific and resigned, sorry, led the party through the 2015 provincial election and actually David is the last liberal elected official in the Alberta legislature, that’s something to think of. It’s very interesting. And he was also a guest on the show with Brad Stel Fox and Dr. Norm Campbell to discuss the harms of coal mining as well. Well, thank you so much for being here, David. Any other things you’d like to add in terms of your introduction today, please?David:Well, as a public health officer, I was certainly very concerned about water quality, water quantity in the context of this podcast, and part of our responsibility, of course was to monitor water quality as far as potable water was concerned and enforce regulations when we found any risks to the water supply that people were drinking. As a politician, I was involved in a number of issues as the environment critic in association with both air quality and water quality concerns around oil and gas activity and inter basin transfers for example, which I hope to say a few words about. And in the last five years, I kicked off a watershed stewardship group called the Fish Creek Watershed Association, in which we have really endeavored to get a clear handle on one of the tributaries of the Bow River outside of Calgary up to the Kananaskis Park, how significant they are in the terms of the question of water security. And I guess I want to ask at the outset, security for whom, because this government seems to prefer and prioritize water security for irrigation and commercial interests over the instream flow needs, and that’s a serious concern for those of us who recognize that the environment has only the advocates as citizens that decide to step up. The fish don’t speak, the biodiversity doesn’t speak, we have to recognize limits if we’re going to protect the instream flow needs and healthy biodiversity related to that.Jenny:Wonderfully said. David, thank you so much for being here. I’m really excited to get into this conversation with you, but before we do that, let’s make sure we re-welcome Jason Unger back to the stage. Thank you so much for joining us, Jason. Jason was also on the podcast in this miniseries. I poked him in September when I saw him in person and said, we’re going to be flagging you again, and here he is. I’m really pleased that you’re back with us Jason. Just a reminder that Jason is the executive director and general counsel of the Environmental Law Centre and Alberta based charity focused on legal education and environmental natural resource law reform. The ELC’s mission is to educate and champion for strong environmental law so that all Albertans can enjoy clean water, clean air, and a healthy environment. Jason worked in the private practice before this in both Edmonton and Calgary and he’s worked for Alberta’s Court of Queen Bench as well. Jason also sits on the Alberta Water Council, which is a multi-stakeholder organization that provides advice and input on provincial water policy. Very pleased to know that we didn’t quite catch that the first time we interviewed you, this is wonderful to have you. Jason, thank you so much for participating again.Jason:Thanks very much for having me. It’s a great and very timely, I guess water’s always timely but extra timely as there’s changes to the water laws and policy as ongoing issues that we see on the landscape and the water.Jenny:Yes, in so many ways it’s becoming more urgent. Both the discussion and the changes and the proposed ways of managing those changes are very urgent. They require urgent attention. Thank you so much for acknowledging that. And before we get into it, Jason, do you mind just giving a little bit of background like we offer David, just how you came into this work and a little bit about what you’re doing in these roles? Thank you.Jason:Sure. Yeah, I’ve been a lawyer for quite a while back to the early two thousands and since the beginning I’ve always had a very keen interest in environmental law and how we manage our natural resources and for the protection of the environment. It’s why I went into law school in the first place, and I’ve really focused on the long-term, looking at things around water loss specifically. It’s always been an interest of mine, everything from federal fisheries, law impact assessment, species at risk, all of which touch Alberta’s waterways as well as how we manage the natural resources on the landscape itself because they have direct implications for aquatic health, whether we’re talking about diversions in water quantity or the water quality. What we’re putting in the water from our wastewater streams, both industrial and municipal and otherwise, both from point sources and non-point sources.I’ve had a long history. I have been on part of the Water Council, which is a consensus-based decision-making organization that was struck as a result of the Water for Life strategy, which dates back a couple of decades now, which has the typical three pillars around social, economic and environmental outcomes. Although they’re phrased in a bit different manner, but I’ve been a long [time] advocate for accountability for environmental outcomes and that goes for water law as well as water policy, whether it’s around our wetlands or our rivers or our lakes. There’s a whole host of law and policy that applied to them and I’ve been active in that area for a long time, advocating for water laws that ensure accountability on the environmental outputs or outcomes that we all want to see.Jenny:Incredible. Thank you so much, Jason. This is great. This has just been a wonderful experience, I have to say, to meet all the people working in this space. Okay, we’re going to let Bob lead off the questions today. I’ll just offer some comments as we go. Thank you so much. B

Episode 9 of a podcast mini-series focused on Water and Southern Alberta, co-host Bob Morrison joins Jenny to discuss topics such as irrigation history, resource extraction impacts, water legislation, and climate change effects on insurance. The series features experts like Dr. David Sauchyn, who studies climate and hydrology in Canada’s Western interior, contributing to future climate and water supply scenarios. Dr. Sauchyn has served as an expert witness on climate change in Canadian legislative bodies.This conversation highlights the incremental nature of global climate change, emphasizing regional climate phenomena over global statistics. Southern Alberta faces unique challenges, with drought identified as a significant risk due to its creeping nature and potential for long-term impacts. The discussion underscores the importance of local adaptation within regulatory frameworks, with provincial governments playing a key role in water allocation.This episode also addresses the need for transformational adaptation strategies, focusing on reducing water demand and enhancing soil and land water retention. The conversation concludes with reflections on the emotional response to climate issues and the challenge of reducing consumption to mitigate climate impacts.Introduction to Dr. David Sauchyn and his Climate WorkJenny (00:00:06):Welcome to the Gravity Well Podcast with me, Jenny Ami. I host the gravity well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty seven and Metis districts five and six. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples were created to honour the laws of the land, maintain balance with nature, and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide the Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts, and openness to different perspectives. This is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of the gravity well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The gravity well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see and hear, remember to like and subscribe.Good afternoon, Bob. Thank you so much for joining me again. Just a reminder for everyone. This is Bob Morrison. He’s my co-host through the Water and Southern Alberta mini series that we’ve been working on. Bob has been hard at work over the last few months, regrouping us for the second half of this series. We started this series off learning about The History of Irrigation from Professor Shannon Stunden Bower and Jordan Christianson. We talked about The Impacts of Resource Extraction on water from David Mayhood, Dr. Younis Alila, and David Unger. We talked about The Water Act and Licence Transfer System with Professor Arlene Kwasniak and Davin Macintosh. We discussed The Water Cycle and Modelling with Dr. Tricia Stadnyk of the U of C. We discussed Watershed and Lake Stewardship with Mike Murray, Susan Ellis and Tim Romanow. And then we discussed Dryland, Irrigated, and Ranchland Farming with Dwight Popowich, Julian Vandenberg and John Smith, and Markham Hislop met with me and Derek Connick to talk about The Impacts of Climate Change on Insurance.Then on Monday we met with Brad Stelfox to talk about The Impacts of Land Use on Water. And today we are thrilled to welcome Dr. David Sauchyn to the studio. David is a professor of Geography and Environmental Studies at the University of Regina. His research focuses on climate and hydrology of the past millennia in Canada’s Western interior and how this knowledge can inform future climate and water supply scenarios. He’s been involved in various roles at the Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative over the past 25 years, including a director since 2017. Dr. Soin has been invited as an expert witness on climate change in the Canadian Senate and House of Commons, and at forums hosted by provincial premiers and environmental ministers. Welcome to the studio, David. It’s a pleasure to have you here.David:Thanks for having me. Hi, Jenny. Hi, Bob.Jenny:Yes. We’d love for you to just start and offer your background. How did you come into this work and how your focus came to be, what it is today, please. Thank you.David:How I came into studying climate and climate change? Well, I grew up east in Edmonton and I actually don’t remember a whole lot about living at Edmonton because when I wasn’t in school, my father took us hunting and fishing in the foothills and in the summertime we spent a lot of it on our grandparents’ farm near Hardesty, Alberta. I guess growing up I spent a lot of time and I had to walk to school, I spent a lot of time outside and just developed an interest in the natural world. Went to the University of Alberta as an engineering student, decided I didn’t want to be an engineer. And I looked at the course calendar and discovered, wow, you can actually take courses in rivers, glaciers, weather, climate. I didn’t know that because in the Alberta public school system at the time, they didn’t teach those things in high school. I switched from engineering to science, just loved it. And I went to graduate school in Colorado so I could ski. And I lived in a log cabin up in the mountains for two years and one month, no plumbing, no heat. It was fantastic.And then for a PhD, I went to the University of Waterloo because there was a professor who was from Calgary and did his research in Kananaskis. I spent three years living with my wife in a tent in summertime in Canon ascus before it was developed and did research. My graduate research was on natural hazards, so snow avalanches, rock slides, mud flows, and the kind of weather that triggered these things. There you go.Jenny:That’s incredible. It’s it’s been in you from such a long time to just, yeah, and it’s funny, I actually did a similar exercise at the U of A myself. I started as a chem student and then decided to go into geophysics. Same thing, looked at what programs were offered and that’s how I selected it. That’s really interesting. Wow, that’s so cool that you’ve lived on the landscape like that as well. Very neat, David. Okay, Bob, you can go ahead and lead us off with the first question, please.What does the future hold for Southern Alberta?Bob (00:06:12):Well, we hear a lot about what the future is going to hold in terms of climate and how it’s going to affect water. We’re talking about bigger floods, more drought, hailstorms that are going to be more severe, various things like that. From what you’ve found, what does the future hold for us, particularly in Southern Alberta, but maybe globally?David:Well, globally, I think everybody knows, I mean, if you’re ever online or if you read any kind of media, you’re aware of the fact that the temperature of the entire world has been changing incrementally, a few factions of a degree warmer every year. And that’s the result of a change in the global energy balance where there is less energy escaping back into space because it’s being trapped near the surface of the earth. We’ve changed the chemistry of the atmosphere. We’ve released certain gases. The concentration of certain gases has been increasing, trapping more heat. Globally it’s well documented that the average temperature of the whole world has been going up. Unfortunately, people translate that into heat waves and extreme heat, but the climate isn’t changing all the time and everywhere it’s changing more rapidly at certain places than others, in particular the Arctic. But also that concept of global warm is kind of misleading because the temperature of the whole world doesn’t exist.It’s a statistic, it’s a statistical concept. You can’t find it on the weather app on your phone. We have to think in terms of how the human modification of the atmosphere, how this change in the amount of heat is affecting the climate where you live. Because after all, climate is a regional phenomenon. There is no climate of the whole world. There’s only climate in certain places. At our research center, we focus on the climate of the prairies and how that’s changing and it’s actually changing quite a bit differently than other parts of the world. That’s the danger in extrapolating from the concept of global warming and applying it to a place like the Canadian prairies. You have to know the prairies and study the prairies to realize that the trajectory of climate change is somewhat or quite a bit different than the rest of the world.Bob:How is it going to be different in the future for us, whether it’s compared to somebody else or compared to our past?David:Well, to begin with, like I said, we seem to be fixated on this idea that there is extreme heat. And certainly in certain parts of the world there have been record high temperatures. Parts of Europe, for example, Mediterranean, they have had record high temperatures, but not here. The highest temperatures ever recorded on the Canadian prairies were in the 1930s and that we’re not exceeding 40 degrees as often as we did in the 1940s, the 1980s. And the warmest summers we’ve had have been the driest years. 1961, 1988, 2001, when the soil is so dry that not much of the energy goes towards evaporation, a lot of the energy goes towards hitting the air. As you probably know, water has a cooling effect. And therefore in the driest summers are the warmest, our driest summer on record, 1937. Despite what people think and people tell me, boy, it’s getting so hot. Well, that’s not what the weather records show.Jenny:I’m curious, w

Bob Morrison is welcomed back to discuss the second half of the series on Water in Southern Alberta. The series began with discussions on irrigation history, resource extraction impacts, and water management, featuring experts like Professor Shannon Stunden Bower, David Mayhood, and Dr. Trisha Stadnik. This episode features Dr. Brad Stelfox, a scientist and thought leader, who groundbreaking work has influenced land management across Alberta and beyond, ensuring a balance between development and ecological integrity. Brad was also a guest on The Gravity Well podcast, Season 2, Episode 2 where we discussed The Harms of Coal Mining in Southern, Alberta.Brad highlights the challenges of linking social, economic, and environmental models, emphasizing the need to understand trade-offs and prioritize sustainable land use. He discussed the degradation of natural capital in Alberta, particularly in the eastern lowlands and the foothills, due to excessive land use and the failure to account for environmental liabilities. The conversation also touched on the importance of the Eastern Slopes for water quality and quantity, advocating for careful land use management to preserve these critical areas.The podcast concluded with a call for a shift in economic models to prioritize natural capital to ensure a sustainable future for Alberta’s landscapes.Re-Introductions to Dr. Brad Stelfox and the Water in Southern Alberta PodcastJenny (00:00:05):Welcome to the Gravity Well Podcast with me, Jenny Ami. I host the gravity well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty seven and Metis districts five and six. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples are created to honour the laws of the land, maintain balance with nature, and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide the Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts, and openness to different perspectives. This is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of the gravity well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The Gravity Well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see and hear, remember to like and subscribe.Good morning folks. I am very pleased to be welcoming back Bob Morrison to the studio. Bob has been working hard over the last few months to generate the second half of our series water in Southern Alberta. Much gratitude to you, Bob. Without you, this second half would not be happening. First of all, thank you for that.Bob:You’re welcome.Jenny:Yeah, I’m just going to quickly, we’ll run through where we’re at. We started this series in May of this year. We started with Professor Shannon Stunden Bower and special areas expert Jordan Christiansen. They discussed the history of irrigation with us. Then we discussed the impacts of resource extraction on water with limnologist, David Mayhood, Dr. Younes Alila, who’s a forestry expert and engineer and environmental law expert, expert Dave Unger. We learned about the Water Act and the water licence transfer system from Professor Arlene Kwasniak, a law professor, and Davin McIntosh, who’s a water transfer expert. We discussed the water cycle and modelling with Dr. Trisha Stadnik of the University of Calgary. We engaged with Watershed and Lake Stewardship current and former leaders, Mike Murray, Susan Ellis and Tim Romanow. We listened to Dryland, Irrigated, and Ranch land farmers, Dwight Popowich, Julian Vandenberg, and John Smith about the changes they’re seeing on the farming landscape.And then finally, I was joined by Markham Hislop to have a conversation with Derek Connick about the impacts of climate change or water on insurance. We have come a long way, and now we’re in the second half where we’re helping to help unwind all of what we learned and take it forward. I’m very pleased to, and I recommend you please have a look at those seven episodes as we dive into these next ones. Now I’m pleased to invite to the stage Dr. Brad Stelfox, who I’ll lead with. Brad has for more than 35 years, Brad has been a driving force in reshaping how Albertans and the world understand cumulative effects of land use. A scientist, educator, and thought leader, Dr. Stelfox, has dedicated his career to helping policy makers, industry leaders, and communities make informed decisions about environmental sustainability. His groundbreaking work has influenced land management across Alberta and beyond ensuring a balance between development and ecological integrity. Brad was also a guest on The Gravity Well podcast for episode two this year where we discussed the harms of coal mining in Southern Alberta. Welcome back, Brad.Brad:Thank you very much, and thanks for the invitation. Good to talk to both of you, Bob and Jenny.Jenny:Great, it’s greatly appreciated, Brad, your episode has been very popular. People really resonated with the thought about being somebody who’s been working in water and land use for decades and suffering the consequences of the average person not paying attention to these vital things that we do. Thank you very much. I’m really pleased to hear more from you today. And with that, I’m going to let Bob lead us off with some questions for you. Thank you.Bob:Great. Thanks, Jenny. No, we were hoping to hear from Brad first in terms of his experiences.Jenny:Oh, yeah, go ahead. Bob would like you to lead us off with some of your experiences, please.Brad:Okay. Well, I’m Albertan, born in Edmonton, but grew up west of Edmonton on a small ranch northwest of Stony Plain. Yeah, my university background is primarily as a zoologist at U of A. And I had an opportunity after my undergrad to go to East Africa and look at land use, particularly livestock and wildlife in Kenya where I lived for several years, and also set up a university campus and taught there and then came back to Canada and where my wife and I raised a family, had an opportunity to go down to Jackson Hole and work at the Teton Science School in Grand Teton National Park, looking at environmental relationships dynamics, primarily environmental education where I taught from basically six year old’s to 96 year old’s. That was thoroughly enjoyable. We moved back to Canada and that’s where I started working with the provincial government for a few years, heading up the Wildlife Ecology Program, then what was called the Alberta Environmental Centre, and then branched out on my own, starting to build some of the early cumulative effects models which tried to look at how a collection of overlapping land uses were reshaping the landscape of Alberta and other provinces.And that of course, led to some opportunities with my colleagues who really helped build some wonderful software to look at these relationships in countries like United States and Australia, parts of Europe, southeast Asia. That’s kept me busy over most of my career. Bob is looking at the interface between humans and their landscapes primarily through all the land uses that makes humans human, I guess.Jenny:Yeah, that’s wonderful. I’ll just offer that I saw you speak in Bragg Creek where you were showing just that how you would put road use and agriculture use and oil and gas and et cetera, et cetera, into these models to help us see how they add together and how they can cause what I would call deconstructive interference on the landscape.Brad:Right? Yeah, that’s a good way of describing it. Yeah, there’s a lot going on and Albert’s a very busy placeJenny:For sure. Okay, go for it, Bob.What are the gaps between different types of models generated?Bob (00:07:24):Okay, well let’s start off with modelling because you’ve done quite extensive mound of that. And there are economic models, there are water management models out there, there’s some, I gather environmental models in terms of what’s the impact of one thing or the other. We’re not doing well in some cases on political models in terms of how decisions should be made. Where are the gaps in terms of making all those models work together that you see?Brad:That’s a good question. I mean, I just say there’s just so many models out there and I think we as society, struggle with scale and how we relate these models together. There’s thousands of models that just deal with how water moves for the landscape or how wildlife walk through habitat or how people select the homes they live in or how our climate may change, whether it’s the next forecast or the next 12 hours or two weeks or next 18 decades. There’s an abundance of models out there. I think one of the historical problems that we as modellers have had is in linking effectively social, economic and environmental models together. And our particular focus with the work that I’ve done and with the colleagues that I’ve worked with is trying to help people understand at a strategic scale that humans and their land uses all create benefits. They create social benefits. It could be, okay if we have a commercial logging operation area, what does this mean to royalties and rents in that area that might help fund all sorts of infrastructure that’s critical to the community or just build a community of people that are making adequate money so that they can live together and have community. Those are examples very roughly of social benefits. Other people for any given area want to know how land uses create economic benefits. Again, the jobs, the royalties, the rents, how does this contribute to GDP?And those things are critic

The Gravity Well Podcast, hosted by Jenny Yeremiy, delves into the implications of legislative changes in Alberta, specifically Bill 40, which affects professional governance. The episode features a discussion with Zac Trolley, a professional engineer and member of The Professional Association of Engineers and Geoscientists of Alberta (APEGA), about how the bill shifts authority from professional bodies to political entities, impacting engineers, geoscientists, and 21 other professions. Key concerns include the potential for political discretion, specifically the Minister of Advanced Education, and MLA for Calgary-Fish Creek, Myles McDougall (formerly Rajan Sawhney after Demetrios Nicolaides) to override professional standards, the inability of associations to act as bargaining agents (aka the teachers & staff), and the threat to public safety and professional integrity. The conversation highlights the importance of solidarity among professional organizations and the need for collective action to protect constitutional rights and maintain professional standards. The episode calls for awareness and action against these legislative changes, emphasizing the broader implications for all working-class individuals in Alberta.JennyWelcome to the Gravity Well Podcast with me, Jenny Yeremiy. I host The Gravity Well to celebrate and share the stories of people looking to empower others with the knowledge and skills required to reestablish stability in our communities. My mission is to work through heavy issues in conversation and process in order to lighten the load. I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territories of Treaty seven and Metis districts five and six. The treaties and self-governance agreements established by indigenous peoples are created to honour the laws of the land, maintain balance with nature, and give back to uphold reciprocal relationships. This knowledge and intention are what guide the Gravity Well conversations. I ask for genuine dialogue, real hearts, and openness to different perspectives. This is your invitation to find common ground with me. Positions taken by participants either individually or collectively do not necessarily represent those of the gravity well. This podcast is dedicated to the natural world, our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The Gravity Well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what you see and hear, remember to like and subscribe.Jenny:Good morning, Zac. Sorry, a little bit fumbly there. It’s been a while since. How are you doing today?Zac:I’m doing pretty good. All things considered.Jenny:Awesome. Thank you so much for being with me. Welcome back to The Gravity. Well everyone, I’m done with the Calgary Environmental Roundtable (CERT) efforts that I did over the municipal election, and glad to be just slipping in one podcast in between the Water podcast series that’s going to come up here. But we needed to talk about something that is very relevant in the news right now and very much related to something you have been helping me understand over the last few months here around APEGA and what’s been happening to our delegated authority. I’m really glad to be walking through that with you today, Zac. Let me just give a little bit of background on Zac. Zac is a professional engineer. He’s a father and a space enthusiast. He has a diploma from SAIT and dual degrees in engineering and professional ethics from Lakehead University. He’s worked across industries and has worked on the shop floor in coal mines, oil, sand sites, and even more on movie sets. What a tremendous range you have in your background, Zac.Zac:I’ve been, I like to say I’ve taken a long way around in my experience. I’ve done a lot of things, worn a lot of hats.Jenny:Yeah, I think you and I are very similar this way. I think this is why we work together so well. Thank you for that. Okay, today Zac and I are going to unpack the legislative changes that were made with Bill 40 beginning in March of this year with respect to professional governance in Alberta. His analysis is that it’s apparent that these changes transfer authority from professionals to politicians. Zac will be outlining the impacts of these changes to our professional body. Both Zac and I are members of the Association of Professionals for Engineers and Geoscientists for Alberta, APEGA for short. We want to compare this to what’s happening right now with teachers and the notwithstanding clause. There are two main concerns we want to cover. Firstly, Bill 40 allows for political discretion to override professional obligations, and secondly, it bans our association from acting on our behalf as a bargaining agent. This ultimately impacts our ability to uphold and defend public safety standards as APEGA members. And in the case of teachers, it means their ability to defend quality public education.Lastly, we’re going to touch on the importance of being in solidarity with other professional organizations when their professions are in direct threat. Is that a good outline of what we’re going to cover today, Zac?Zac:Yeah, let’s hit all those points and see where we end up. There’s a lot going on at the moment.What did “self-governance” look like before Bill 40?Jenny (04:01):Yeah, thank you so much. Okay, let’s start from the beginning. Can you back up and explain for people what did self-governance look like for APEGA members before Bill 40 was put in place? Thank you.Zac:Absolutely. The idea of self-governance is that the technical authorities are in charge of the rules and ruling for those professions. For APEGA, engineers are looking at engineering rules. Geoscientists know their own craft and they propose the rules to operate for the rest of their profession. Think of it like it’s like an apprenticeship, right? You learn how to become an electrician from other electricians and APEGA worked the same way. Across Canada, all the universities need to be accredited, meaning whether you go to school in Victoria, Calgary, Toronto, you’re all getting basically the same course material and then once you graduate, you’re able to become an EIT engineer in training. Then it’s another four years of work under an engineer in order to become your full professional engineering status and APEGA managed all that. Oh, well, engineers Canada was above it. APEGA is obviously the Albertan branch, but what that means is for engineers, when you stamp something, when you sign something, that stamp and signature is backed by the association that has accredited you, that reviews you, that makes sure you’re up to date on the standards. And what Bill 40 does is shift that from APEGA to the Minister of Advanced Education, which is a huge change in how this used to work.Who Holds the Power to Use Bill 40?Jenny (05:42):Yeah, that’s wild. Sorry. The Minister of Advanced Education?Zac:That’s the minister that’s overseeing this, and the startling thing is it’s not just APEGA. There are 21 other associations in this bill. You have engineers, geoscientists, accountants, veterinarians, land surveyors, a wide, wide array of technical fields that all falls under a single minister.Jenny:That’s wild. This is why I hear people talking about the notwithstanding clause and thinking that this is just an issue in education. No, this bill impacts all of us, and this is just the first public view of how we can be stripped from our ability to both defend the public in the case of engineers and geoscientists, but also be able to defend our professional obligations from any organization.Zac:Absolutely. Back in March when this bill had its first reading, it was brought out as a way to modernize the professions because a lot of these professions had their own act and their own laws. We did as well. It was E 11 that was our own law that we were lawfully allowed to operate as engineers and it brought them all under one. There was a bit of red tape reduction in that manner. It did do that. However, there were lots of sections that were added in that were not in the engineering regulations and I can’t find them anywhere else. These are things that were put in a 200 page document that was rushed through the legislation in two months. I don’t think anybody ever really sat down and read through it and digested what it really means.Jenny:Just to back up, for people who aren’t APEGA members, our main objective as APEGA members under Act 11, which was the original governing documents for us is public safety. Public safety and health for the environment are of primary obligation. And that means it was over and above our obligation to our companies. Correct?Zac:Correct. It was in law that our code of ethics were to be followed, meaning that if we had an employer and they were deciding between two options, A and B, and A was expensive and safe, and B was cheap and very risky, we as engineers had a legal obligation to point them towards option A to say, this is safer and although B saves you money, it goes below the bar of public safety that we’re allowed to stamp and verify. And then that project needed to bring himself back up to those safety standards before he can get built. We had the authority to say this is unsafe and we cannot build it.Jenny:Right. Yeah. Okay. First step was, I understand there were three stages of this bill. This has happened over several months where it was rolled out in March of this year, and there have been changes made to it all the way through to June of this year, I believe. It started with stage one, which I understand to be minister, can you speak a little, you’ve just sort of explained this, you had the ability to uphold these safety standards. What can the minister do?Zac:There are three stages of power that the minister has increasing in severity. And again, we’re talking about APEGA here, but this applies to all the associations. What they can do is APEGA’s code of conduct and rules and standards o

Updates to Episodes 7, 14, 21 & 28: Removed(Oct 28)The Gravity Well issued a Public Statement on October 11, 2024. We re-recorded Episode 28, replaced Episode 7, and deleted Episodes 14 and 21 due to inadequate vetting of the original guest. We aim to host authentic conversations with members of the communities or concerned groups discussed. We apologise for unintentionally offending the Blackfoot Confederacy. Our vetting process has been updated to ensure we have appropriate community representation and support on a topic before we proceed.It was recommended that we dedicate an episode to discussing our mistake and better understanding the risks of misrepresentation. This conversation occurred on Tuesday, October 22nd, 2024. Please email info@thegravitywell.net for further information. We are extremely grateful to the Blackfoot Confederacy for allowing us to work through this issue together. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thegravitywell.net/subscribe

Updates to Episodes 7, 14, 21 & 28: Removed(Oct 28)The Gravity Well issued a Public Statement on October 11, 2024. We re-recorded Episode 28, replaced Episode 7, and deleted Episodes 14 and 21 due to inadequate vetting of the original guest. We aim to host authentic conversations with members of the communities or concerned groups discussed. We apologise for unintentionally offending the Blackfoot Confederacy. Our vetting process has been updated to ensure we have appropriate community representation and support on a topic before we proceed.It was recommended that we dedicate an episode to discussing our mistake and better understanding the risks of misrepresentation. This conversation occurred on Tuesday, October 22nd, 2024. Please email info@thegravitywell.net for further information. We are extremely grateful to the Blackfoot Confederacy for allowing us to work through this issue together. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thegravitywell.net/subscribe