The Caste Pod

This episode features a conversation with Ravikant Kisana, Dean of the School of Liberal Education and Languages at Galgotias University in India, about his book Meet the Savarnas: Indian Millennials Whose Mediocrity Broke Everything. We discussed the term “savarna” and how his personal experiences as a student and professor in liberal institutions led him to write the book, the performativity and insularity of upper castes, the importance of endogamy to caste social reproduction, and how to understand the recent shift from claims to castelessness to overt assertions of caste pride. Guest Ravikant Kisana, Dean, School of Liberal Education and Languages, Galgotias University, India References: B.R. Ambedkar, “Castes in India” Babasaheb: an honorific for B.R. Ambedkar meaning “respected father.” IIMs: Indian Institutes of Management Mayawati: first Dalit woman chief minister of India who served in the state of Uttar Pradesh as the leader of the Bahujan Samaj Party. BSP: Bahujan Samaj Party founded in 1984 and focused on representing the interests of Dalits, Other Backward Classes (OBCs) and religious minorities. OBC parties: see above Veds/Vedas: ancient Sanskrit scriptures Kayasth: scribal and administrative caste originating in Maharashtra, Bengal, and Odisha. Marwari: mercantile caste originating in the Marwar region of Rajasthan. Baniya: mercantile caste originating in the states of Rajasthan and Gujarat. Baniya and Marwari are overlapping categories. Jat: agricultural caste originating in the regions of Sindh and Punjab. Noida: a city in the National Capital Region that falls within the state of Uttar Pradesh Congress: Indian National Congress, one of India’s main national political parties founded in 1885. MGNREGA: The Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee Act of 2005 is an Indian labor law guaranteeing at least 100 days of paid, unskilled manual work per financial year to rural households. Read the transcript here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode features Yashica Dutt, journalist and author of Coming Out as Dalit. We began with a discussion of her choice to write a memoir, the significance of the memoir as a genre of Dalit writing, the politics around passing as upper caste, and what her mother’s role in the life taught her about Dalit feminism as a counter to Brahminical patriarchy. We then moved on to what her work as a journalist in India and the U.S. has revealed about the differences in the operations of caste in the two contexts. Finally, we ended with her coverage of the Zohran Mamdani campaign, both its promises and its failure to address the caste question head-on. Guest: Yashica Dutt is a journalist and author whose writings can be found on her Substack, Featuring Dalits and in New Lines magazine. Mentioned in the episode: Yashica Dutt, Coming Out as Dalit Rohith Vemula: an Indian PhD scholar at the University of Hyderabad whose suicide drew attention to widespread institutional casteism. Kumari Mayawati: first Dalit woman chief minister in India who served in the state of Uttar Pradesh as the leader of the Bahujan Samaj Party. BSP: Bahujan Samaj Party founded in 1984 and focused on representing the interests of Dalits, Other Backward Classes (OBCs) and religious minorities. Origin: 2023 film written and directed by Ava DuVernay based on the life and work of Isabel Wilkerson. ST/SC Act: Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 is a landmark Indian law designed to protect marginalized communities from atrocities, hate crimes, and discrimination. Cargenie Institute study: 2024 Indian American Attitudes Survey conducted by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. DRUM Beats: organization that mobilizes working-class South Asian and Indo-Caribbean communities. Yashica Dutt, “I reported on the Zohran Mamdani Campaign for six months and documented South Asians' rise to power in New York City” Yashica Dutt, “What Zohran Mamdani’s Campaign Says About the Quiet Erasure of Caste in US Politics” Yashica Dutt, “If South Asians are prominent in the New York Mayoral Election, then where is caste?” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode features a conversation with the founding members of the Feminist Critical Hindu Studies Collective, also known as the Auntylectuals. We began with each of them reflecting on their pathway into Hindu Studies and how the questions of caste and gender shaped their approaches to this field. We then discussed their motivations for starting the collective and what interventions they hoped to make through it. This took us deeper into some thorny topics: caste as a form of embodied knowledge that is often accompanied by the denial of its continued social power; the politics of Hinduism in North America where Hindus are both predominantly upper caste and a racial minority; the relationship between Hinduism and Hindutva, or Hindu nationalism; the traffic in language and tactics between Hindutva and Zionism; and the efforts to push back against the movement to make caste a protected category in U.S. anti-discrimination law. Guests: Shreena Gandhi: Professor of Religious Studies, Michigan State University Harshita Kamath: Professor of Telugu Culture, Literature, and History, Emory University Sailaja Krishnamurti: Professor of Gender Studies, Queen’s University Shana Sippy, Professor of Religion, Centre College Mentioned in the episode: Rajiv Malhotra: an ideologue of the Hindu nationalist movement in the U.S. and founder of Infinity Foundation Harshita Kamath, Impersonations: The Artifice of Brahmin Masculinity in South Indian Dance Amar Chitra Katha: an Indian comic book publisher whose comics are hugely popular and widely available in India and the Indian diaspora. Sailaja Krishnamurti, “Learning about Hindu Religion through Comics and Popular Culture,” David Yoo and Khyati Y Joshi eds. Envisioning Religion, Race and Asian Americans, Honolulu: University of Hawai’i Press, 207-226, 2020. Babri Masjid: a 16th century mosque that became the target of Hindu nationalist mobilization and was destroyed by vigilante mobs in December 1992. Marko Geslani, “A Model Minority Religion: The Race of Hindu Studies,” American Religion, forthcoming. Thenmozhi Soundarajan, The Trauma of Caste Sarah Ahmed, Queer Phenomenology: Orientations, Objects, Others Feminist Critical Hindu Studies Collective, “Feminist Critical Hindu Studies in formation” Feminist Critical Hindu Studies Collective, “Hindu fragility and the politics of mimicry in North America” Feminist Critical Hindu Studies Collective, “Hinduphobia is a smokescreen for Hindu nationalists” Shana Sippy and Sailaja Krishnamurti, “Not all Hinduism is Hindutva, but Hindutva is in fact Hinduism” Shana Sippy, “Strange and Storied Alliances: Hindus and Jews, India and Israel,” manuscript in progress Shana Sippy, "Victimization, Supremacism, Solidarity, and the Affective and Emulative Politics of American Hindus" Tomako Masuzawa, The Invention of World Religions, Or How European Universalism Was Preserved in the Language of Pluralism Shreena Gandhi, “Framing Islam as American Religion Despite White Supremacy” Equality Labs is a South Asian Dalit civil rights organization. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TCP’s inaugural episode features Suraj Yengde and Anupama Rao, two scholars whose academic work and activism have helped to set the parameters of the contemporary debate on caste. In our conversation, we addressed the challenge of defining caste, their individual pathways into researching and writing on the caste question, and the virtues and limitations of comparing caste and race as two enduring forms of social stratification. We ended with a discussion of Isabel Wilkerson’s Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents, the runaway bestseller that made caste and its relationship to race a topic of mainstream debate in the United States. Guests: Suraj Milind Yengde: Assistant Professor of History & Africana Studies at the University of Pennsylvania. Anupama Rao: Professor of History and Middle Eastern, South Asian, and African Studies, Columbia University Mentioned in the episode: B.R. Ambedkar, Annihilation of Caste IITs: the Indian Institutes of Technology IIMs: the Indian Institutes of Management Reserved candidates: beneficiaries of India’s system of affirmative action B.R. Ambedkar, “Castes in India” Isabel Wilkerson, Caste: The Origins of Our Discontents Anupama Rao, The Caste Question Suraj Yengde, Caste Matters Suraj Yengde, Caste: A Global Story Shaadi.com: an Indian matrimonial website Phule: Jyotirao Phule was an anti-caste social reformer and writer from Maharashtra. Periyar: E.V. Ramasamy Naicker, commonly known as Periyar, was a writer, social revolutionary, and politician who was one of the principal ideologues of the Self-Respect Movement. Begumpura, or “city without sorrow” expresses the notion of a casteless, classless utopia and was first formulated by Sant Ravidas (c. 1450-1520). Dalit Panthers was a revolutionary, anti-caste organization founded in 1972. It was based in Maharashtra and drew inspiration from the American Black Panther Party. Oliver Cox, Caste, Class, and Race: A Study in Social Dynamics (1948) Divya Cherian, Merchants of Virtue Meet the Savarnas: 2025 book by Ravikant Kisana Ramesh Bairy, Being Brahmin, Being Modern Dumont, Homo Hierarchicus Daniel Immerwahr, “Caste of Colony?” Nico Slate, Colored Cosmopolitanism W.E.B. Du Bois, The Souls of Black Folk W.E.B. Du Bois, Black Reconstruction Ajantha Subramanian is Professor of Anthropology at CUNY Graduate Center and host of The Caste Pod. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices