The Government Fix

Government touches nearly every part of our lives—but too often, it feels confusing, slow, or outdated. In this episode of The Government Fix, Amanda Renteria talks with former Stockton Mayor Michael Tubbs about what it really takes to build a government that just works. Tubbs shares how leading a city through bankruptcy, violence, and outdated technology shaped his vision for simpler, more human-centered systems. He walks through the creation of Stockton’s guaranteed income pilot, what the data revealed, and why trust and dignity matter as much as efficiency. Together, they explore the role of young people, the promise of AI, and the importance of updating the “unsexy” systems that keep government running. This conversation is a roadmap for anyone who believes better government is possible.ABOUT THE GUEST:Michael Tubbs rose from poverty in South Stockton to become a national leader in economic mobility and public innovation. Elected at 26 as Stockton’s first African-American mayor—and the youngest mayor of a major US city—he launched transformative initiatives including Stockton Scholars and the nation’s first mayor-led guaranteed income pilot. He now serves as Special Advisor to California Governor Gavin Newsom and founded both Mayors for a Guaranteed Income and End Poverty in California. Michael is currently running for California lieutenant governor.LEARN MORE: https://www.stocktondemonstration.org/https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_tubbs_the_political_power_of_being_a_good_neighborABOUT THE GOVERNMENT FIX:The Government Fix is a podcast by Code for America, the country’s leading civic tech nonprofit for over 15 years. Hosted by CEO Amanda Renteria, we explore what it looks like when government works well for everyone. Explore all episodes and learn more: codeforamerica.org/thegovernmentfixWatch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@codeforamerica/podcasts  Transcript:[00:00:00] Michael Tubbs: I remember the big joke when I became mayor was that the only thing I was older than was our legacy system, but only by a year. We were using technology from 1990 in 2016 in Stockton. We had our payroll department, wasn't a department. It was a woman with like-- It wasn't even a spreadsheet, it's something I've never seen before in my life. It was like a black screen with freaking green.[00:00:26] Amanda Renteria: [laughs] Yes.[00:00:29] Michael: I was like, "Wait, this is how we're getting paid?"[Theme music fades in][00:00:32] Amanda: Although we might not realize it, we interact with government every single day. Maybe it's while brushing our teeth, dropping our kids off at school, or taking out the trash. We're almost always interacting with government systems. You hear a lot about how these systems fail, whether it's potholes making your work commute a little bumpier or long wait times at the unemployment office. There's plenty to complain about.[Music plays][00:01:09] Amanda: Welcome to The Government Fix. I'm your host, Amanda Renteria. I've worked on Capitol Hill, in the classroom, on Wall Street, and now I'm the CEO of Code for America, an organization focused on using tech to improve public services and make government work well for everyone.I know that a government that works for us can feel far away. It can be confusing, intimidating, and downright discouraging to find a way to just get by. But here at Code for America, we like to operate from a place of hope and informed optimism. We are looking to bridge the gap between the government we have and the government we need. We talk to the folks who are shaking things up from the inside and outside governments with big ideas and boots on the ground.For our first episode, we're focusing on the government fix for a government that just works. How do we simplify? How do we update old systems? How do we incorporate new research and rapid developments in the realm of AI? Are the young folks on TikTok holding a golden nugget of wisdom coming to save us all? Today's guest is no stranger to these questions. Michael Tubbs was elected mayor of his native Stockton, California, at just 26 years old, making him one of the youngest mayors of a major American city.For those who don't know, Stockton wasn't just any American city. Tubbs inherited a city with historically high rates of crime, poverty, and a newly declared citywide bankruptcy. He came in with a vision to remedy this. In 2019, Michael Tubbs launched SEED. That's the Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration. The concept was simple. Give residents who are living at or below the city's median income level a one-time $500 cash infusion. This is what some call universal basic income. No questions, no confusing paperwork, no strings attached.After a year, researchers found that full-time employment actually increased among participants. Their physical and emotional health improved. The success of the program suggested that when you give people a little bit of a safety net, they don't just stay afloat or stop working. They thrive. SEED sparked a global conversation about universal basic income, and since then, Tubbs has gone on to work at the state level in California, serving as a special advisor to Governor Gavin Newsom on economic mobility.Michael understands that interacting with government can feel overwhelming. Whether it's filing your taxes, applying for benefits, or navigating a complicated form, the process often leaves people wondering, "Did I even do this right?" He also knows what's possible when government is designed with empathy, clarity, and efficiency at the center. When it feels less like a maze and more like a public service. Let's talk about what it takes to believe in a government that just works.[Music transition][00:04:17] Amanda: I'm excited to have this conversation because when I think of innovative folks thinking about government in a different kind of way, you really started out innovative and really taking the lived experience, being there, understanding. What people really needed on the front lines. I want to take you back to that. If you could remember what sparked the, "I got to do something about this. I got to fix government."[00:04:43] Michael: It was being in government, particularly in Stockton. I ran for city council in Stockton. I just graduated from Stanford, had spent a summer at Google. I was used to iteration and move fast and break things and put it back together and problem-solving. Given the immense need in the city of Stockton, from the high poverty rates to we had just declared bankruptcy, staff capacity issues, et cetera, I just expected there would be an opportunity to make government work. Because it had to work. Because we had to do more than the government of Beverly Hills, for example, or the government of Palo Alto. We just can't do the regular government stuff.Being from Stockton, there was such immense need, and folks were looking for leadership, and government had to deliver services. Government had to work. The fact that it wasn't working, we had just declared bankruptcy, we had the highest per capita motorway in the country. We had the lowest staff police force in the country, had very little staff capacity to do even the basics, just created a perfect storm, or an imperfect storm, if you will, of opportunity and need to figure, "How do we make this thing work to deliver for the folks who are counting on us?"[00:05:52] Amanda: Listen, you're young, you're coming out. What was it that sparked you to say, "I'm going to now do it. I see it, and I'm now going to run. I'm going to put my hat in the ring, and I'm going to do this, and I think I can win." That moment when you're like, "No, this is real now. I'm going to put myself on the line."[00:06:14] Michael: It was literally Halloween 2010. I was interning in the White House. I had spent my last years of high school as the Youth Advisory Commission Chair, so I was familiar with local government. Now I was at Intergovernmental Affairs for the White House, and then my cousin in Stockton ended up being a victim of a homicide. It was really that juxtaposition between being at the seat of power, literally at the White House, and then feeling very powerless. It wasn't enough to protect my family.That made me think about, "Well, maybe my purpose isn't just to be successful for me. Maybe it's not just about me getting all the accolades and making a lot of money. Maybe I should probably go back to Stockton and see if this was the best government could do."Then, the next year, the city declared bankruptcy. I remember going home for Christmas, and the mayor at the time had said she had an anti-crime strategy that she was going to reveal at the end of the year. It was the end of the year, a reporter just asked her like, "Hey, any update on the anti-crime strategy?" There was so much stuff going on, she had no idea what the reporter was referring to. It was this big announcement that was made eight months ago, that this strategy was coming.I took that very personal and I realized that maybe part of the issue is that if the job of government leaders are to set priorities, their priorities are set by their proximity and the fact that the murders and the homicides were proximate. Those weren't the people at the country club, those weren't the people at the state of the city, those weren't the people even showed up to council meetings.I said, "Look, I could just complain about it, or I could run," but I really ran, Amanda, not even with this intent that I had to win, it was more of, "I have to run." For me, it felt like there was something in the journey of running that was going to be important.[00:07:59] Amanda: I'm curious now, you're still young, but as you think about that next generation and how they are living in their world, AI-enabled, you do AI work. Just in general, looking back on yourself and saying, what was it that you trusted, what was it that you knew? Or is it that you just don't think about and

The Government Fix is a podcast about bridging the gap between the government we have and the one we need. In each episode, Code for America CEO Amanda Renteria sits down with innovators, doers, and leaders—from inside and outside government—to hear how they tackle big challenges, upend the status quo, and deliver results. This isn’t about tearing down bureaucracy—it’s about building up what works. Smarter systems. Better tools. Less stress. Because when government works well, it works for everyone.ABOUT THE HOST:Amanda Renteria leads Code for America as CEO, steering a transformative organization that sits at the forefront of civic technology and digital government innovation. Under her leadership, Code for America has emerged as a crucial partner to governments and community organizations nationwide, working to realize the vision of “a government by the people, for the people in the digital age.”Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, and watch full episodes on YouTube.Learn more and explore all episodes: codeforamerica.org/thegovernmentfix Transcript:[Theme music fades in][00:00:02] Amanda Renteria: Think about what you did today. Maybe you brushed your teeth, dropped your kids off at school, commuted to work and shopped for groceries. Did you realize that you were interacting with government at every single step? Government isn’t just in the White House, or city hall, or at the polls. It’s all around us. Welcome to The Government Fix, a new podcast about bridging the gap between the government we have and the government we need. I’m your host Amanda Renteria, CEO of Code for America, an organization focused on using tech to improve public services and make government work well for everyone. In each episode, I sit down with innovators, doers, and leaders from inside and outside government to hear how they tackle big challenges:[00:00:44] Billy Shore: I think when it comes to hunger in particular, and especially childhood hunger in the United States, that that's a solvable problem.  [00:00:51] Amanda: Upend the status quo[00:00:53] Linda Garcia: I was a teen mom. I stopped living with my parents at 12. grew up with a lot of trauma and decided I want to be wealthy one day. I don't wanna be like my parents. I don't wanna have to work four jobs just to put food on the table.[00:01:09] Amanda: and deliver results[00:01:11] Michael Tubbs: LA County. Which now has the largest guaranteed income program in the country, named their program, LA County Breathe. 'cause they read the report in Stockton and it was like, oh my gosh.People said they could breathe. That's, that's, that's, that's such a big deal. Um, and that it had comparable results to clinical trials of Prozac in terms of impacts on depression and anxiety. [00:01:29] Amanda: This isn’t a show about tearing down bureaucracy—it’s about building up what works. Smarter systems. Better tools. Less stress. Episodes drop every other week. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts [Theme music fades out] The Government Fix is a podcast from Code for America, the country’s leading civic tech nonprofit. Learn more about our work at codeforamerica.org.