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© 2023-26 The 0ther 22 Hours Podcast
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An exploration of the creative life, lived in the in-between.
A sanctuary for the creative spirit in a results-obsessed world.
Moving beyond the highlight reel, hosts and working musicians Aaron Shafer-Haiss and Michaela Anne facilitate intimate, artist-to-artist conversations with renowned musicians, authors, visual artists and actors about the grit required to sustain a life in the arts. From navigating doubt to finding stillness, this is the reality of the work. Unfiltered.
146 Episodes
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What happens to the creative spirit when you have been a professional "lifer" since the age of nine? Derek Trucks, widely considered one of the greatest guitarists of all time and a veteran of the Allman Brothers Band and Eric Clapton’s touring lineup, joins us to discuss longevity and leading a 12-piece musical circus. We explore the gradual shift from student to teacher, the grounding force of a musical marriage, and the essential practice of "turning the crops" to stay inspired.
How does an artist outlast the industry machine to build a career entirely on her own terms? We sit down with GRAMMY-winner, ACM Vocalist of the year, and CMA Horizon Award recipient Suzy Bogguss to explore the evolution of a 40-year career that spans platinum records and her 2026 induction into the Grand Ole Opry. This conversation is an invitation to reconsider what we value, moving away from the noise of the major label machine and toward a philosophy of quality over quantity, independence, and the deep community.
Grammy-nominated songwriter Amathyst Kiah has performed with Moby and Billy Strings, and is a member of the supergroup Our Native Daughters. She joins us for a startlingly honest look at the "farce of surface-level success". After a label debut and a whirlwind of global exposure, she found herself "barely hanging on for dear life" amidst the pressure of a rat race industry. We explore her journey to achieve a detachment from outcomes, writing for sync as a creative recharge, and the ancient wisdom that helped her trade the self-improvement doom loop for a slower, sustainable creative life.
James Victore is an Emmy Award-winning artist and author, whose work is held in the permanent collection of the Louvre and has been on display many times at MoMA (NYC). He has shaped the visual language of institutions from The New York Times to the City of New York. In this conversation, we explore the spiritual gravity of "staying in the pool" when creativity gets hard, discuss the incubation time of the soul, the environmental and creative toll of our want of ease, and the quiet, daily discipline of living consciously in a world designed to keep us asleep.
Singer-songwriter S.G. Goodman has earned critical acclaim, award nominations, and has worked with legends like Tyler Childers, Jason Isbell, and Jim James of My Morning Jacket. In this episode, we discuss the grueling physical and mental requirements of a "making it." From working manual labor while not on the road to stay afloat to navigating the complex realities of running a bonafide business, S.G. opens up about scarcity, OCD, and the hard-won wisdom of learning to drive the lawnmower instead of letting it drive you.
5x Grammy-nominee Hunter Hayes has spent his entire life on a national stage, from performing at the White House at age seven to sharing stadium spotlights with the likes of Stevie Wonder and Taylor Swift. Yet, behind the multi-platinum accolades was a realization that his professional development had far outpaced his personal life. In this episode, we explore the vulnerability of "growing up" in the public eye, the paralyzing fear of not being busy, how a strict routine can actually provide the ultimate freedom to play, and why starting from a place of love is the only viable way to build a career that lasts.
Butch Walker has spent decades at the summit of the music industry, producing multi-platinum records for icons like Pink, Katy Perry, and Green Day while fronting his own high-energy solo tours. Yet, despite reaching that peak, he found himself "climbing the hill" so intently that he had forgotten to look at the view, leading to burnout and a desire to step back. In this conversation, we explore the courage required to dismantle an ego-driven path in favor of a soul-driven one, and finding unbridled joy in the simple act of being a "sponge" for new inspiration.In This Episode:Butch WalkerJohn Legend'The Real Frank Zappa Book'TrainTaylor SwiftBad BunnyKendrick LamarDesmond ChildGo Deeper:Watch: View this entire conversation on YouTube.Explore: Find similar conversations in these themed playlists.Connect: Join the conversation on Instagram.The Hosts: The Other 22 Hours is hosted by Aaron Shafer-Haiss (Producer/Mixer) and Michaela Anne (Songwriter/Creative Coach).More about Aaron's work.More about Michaela Anne's work.Credits: Produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Original music written, performed and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Part of the Bluegrass Situation Podcast Network.
Kathleen Edwards has been releasing records for over 20 years on labels such as Rounder and Dualtone, she is critically acclaimed by NPR, The New York Times, The New Yorker, and Rolling Stone, and has worked with Jason Isbell, Bon Iver, John Doe, Marren Morris. We talk to Kathleen about winning the lottery, quitting as an ego reset, why musicians are the bottom of the food chain, finishing on a positive, and a whole lot more.
UMAW (the United Musicians and Allied Workers) is a labor organization that 'Aims to organize music workers to fight for a more just music industry and to join with other workers in the struggle for a better society.' Their campaigns include Fair Pay at SXSW, #MyMerch (raising awareness of venues taking an unfair cut), Justice at Spotify, and probably most prominently, The Living Wage For Musicians Act sponsored by Rep Rashida Tlaib in the US Congress currently. We talk with a representative from UMAW - Damon Krukowski (a working musician, and a founder of late 80's indie rocker band Galaxie 500) about who UMAW is, what they are fighting for, and how we can all join the fight.
Chely Wright has sold over 1.5 million records with 90s country anthems like "Single White Female" and "Shut Up and Drive," she released her landmark autobiography, "Like Me" in 2010, becoming the first mainstream country star to come out, and forcing open conversations about LGBTQ identity, after a 10 year absence she returned to The Opry in 2019, released another book 'My Moment' in 2022, and has since pivoted to the corporate world where she is now an SVP. We talk with Chely about this pivot and giving ourselves permission to innovate, consulting your 90 year old self, Ellen's brutally honest advice on losing it all when Chely first came out, manifesting vs reality and a whole lot more.
Jim Keller started in the music industry as part of Tommy Tutone, writing the hit '867-5309/Jenny', then the bands career sank and he left performing, landing as an assistant and then manager for Phillip Glass, Nico Muhly, Ravi Shankar, and others, before 'retiring' and returning to making music by hosting jam sessions with members of The Black Crowes, Levon Helm's band, The Beach Boys, The Wallflowers, The Lumineers, and more. We talk to Jim about the realities of 'crashing and burning', the business and creative divide, the power of honesty, knowing your role, showing up, and a whole lot more.
Max Wanger is an LA-based photographer who has shot the likes of Taylor Swift, Mandy Moore, Blake Mills, Glen Hansard, Madison Cunningham and past guests of ours Lucius, The Watson Twins, and The Milk Carton Kids, as well as Conde Nast Traveler, Virgin Records, Vans, Nike and many many more. We talk to Max about listening to the lull, doing jobs that pay the bills while protecting play and soul in the work, imposter syndrome, admitting what you don’t know, and how vulnerability deepens community, the long arc of following what makes you happy, and so much more.
Raye Zaragoza has released 4+ records all independently, toured as Tigerlily in the Broadway touring version of Peter Pan (updated for indigenous representation by Native American playwright Larissa FastHorse), wrote the music for the Netflix series 'Spirit Rangers', and has placed songs in a substantial number of TV shows from Greys Anatomy to Station 19. We talk to Raye about the toxic hustle narrative in music and how to unlearn it, listening to your intuition vs. listening to the industry, decentralizing how you identify as an artist, running a successful and supportive Patreon community, and so much more.
Kris Delmhorst has released 12+ records independently and via Signature Sounds, has written/performed and recorded with Mary Gauthier, Lori McKenna, Grant Lee Phillips, Peter Wolf (lead singer of J. Geils Band), and more, is critically acclaimed by The Boston Globe, LA Times, Pop Matters, and all your favorite songwriters, and has written for tv & film, as well as countless festivals all over the world. We talk with Kris about creative cycles, retreating, and the necessity of disappearing to make real art, trusting your career through slow seasons, motherhood versus touring, sustaining a two-songwriter household, reframing art as a service rather than ego, and so much more.
Will Hoge has released 13+ albums both independently and on major labels (Atlantic), has been nominated for Grammy, ACM, and CMA awards, and has toured with NEEDTOBREATHE, Jason Isbell, Lisa Loeb, Sugarland, Michelle Branch and others. We talk to Will about the emotional and professional fallout of writing politically charged songs, the role of parenting in shaping artistic courage and empathy, the difference between surviving the industry and making meaningful art, burnout, staying human, and a whole lot more.
Malin Pettersen is a Norwegian singer-songwriter and Spellemannprisen winner (Norwegian Grammy), who has released multiple solo records as well as records with her band, Lucky Lips, has toured extensively throughout Europe and America, and has been acclaimed by Rolling Stone, Forbes, No Depression, Paste and even Iris Dement is a fan. We talk with Malin about the illusion of success, cultural duality between Norway and America, the Norwegian government's support for artists, embracing uncertainty, doubt, and struggle, and so much more.
Jillian Jacqueline has released 4+ records/EPs on both major and independent labels, she started performing at 8 years old, had a charting song at 12 (with Billy Dean and Suzie Bogguss), has worked with Vince Gill, Suzy Bogguss, Richard Marx, Keith Urban, and Shane McAnally, played the Grand Ole Opry, and toured all over the world. We talk to Jillian about redefining success, industry expectations, motherhood and artistry, maintaining integrity, building community, challenging your identity, and a whole lot more.
Flyte are the British duo of songwriters Will Taylor and Nicolas Hill, who started creating together in grade school before signing to a major label (Island Records), leaving that for indie labels (Nettwerk), working with producers such as Glyn Johns, and collaborating with the likes of The Staves, Laura Marling, and Madison Cunningham. We talk with them about a lot of the inner workings of their songwriting practice and approach to record making, classic British emotional repression, coping, creative confusion, commodification, and a whole lot more.
Lera Lynn has released 8+ records, written and recorded songs for True Detective (HBO) with T-Bone Burnett and Rosanne Cash (as well as being cast as a character), played Late Night with David Letterman, toured extensively nationally and internationally, and has been praised by NPR, Rolling Stone, Nylon, and other outlets. We go deep with Lera on learning and setting your own boundaries with yourself and with the industry, lived experiences with the impact and bias against women and mothers by the music industry, losing your sense of purpose and finding it again, enjoying yourself, and more.
Yancey Strickler is a writer and entrepreneur that co-founded Kickstarter (and was CEO for 3 years), Metalabel, The Creative Independent, and A-Corp (Artist Corporations). Essentially, each of these ventures exist to equip creative people with capabilities, knowledge, and tools that make them more powerful. We cover the different facets of this at length, especially his concept of, and push to create Artist Corporations, the systemic exploitation of artists, how DSPs trade convenience for meaning and depth, platform boycotts, "winning" in it's purest sense, and a whole lot more.
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