Pastors & Money Podcast

Hello there! I’m Joy Suzanne Hunt, and this is the Pastors and Money Podcast.I wanted to hop on really quick to let you know that we’re taking a short break from the podcast. I’m using this time to pray over and set vision for the new year and for our next podcast season.We’ll be back in April with conversations to help you thrive in your ministry and finances.In the meantime, if you’re looking for content, I’d love for you to go back and listen to any episodes you might have missed. You can find our entire backlist in your favorite podcast app or over at pastorsandmoney.com. You can also follow me on social media @debtfreejoy for financial tips and encouragement.And make sure you’re subscribed so you’ll get notified when the new season drops in April.Thanks for being part of this community. I’m excited about what God has in store for us this year, and I can’t wait to share it with you.Talk to you soon!If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Is it selfish for pastors to focus on their own financial future? What if prioritizing your financial freedom is actually the most biblical thing you can do for your ministry?In this powerful conversation with Dr. Nicholas Michels—financial strategist, bestselling author, and founder of Michels Family Financial—we tackle the guilt and stigma that keep ministry leaders from achieving financial freedom. Dr. Nick shares his personal journey from witnessing financial devastation in his childhood home to helping his own mother rebuild her life, and how his brother’s experience as a pastor opened his eyes to the unique financial challenges ministry families face.Discover why financial stress destroys marriages, how to create a vision statement that transforms your relationship with your spouse, and why “outwardly successful but inwardly stressed” describes so many ministry leaders. Dr. Nick explains the “mastermind effect” in marriage, shares the practical steps to get on the same page financially, and reveals why the Bible is the greatest success money book ever written.This episode will change how you think about money, stewardship, and what it means to serve well in ministry.Read the full transcript.What You’ll LearnWhy pastors shouldn’t feel guilty about prioritizing their finances (and how it strengthens ministry)How childhood money experiences shape your current financial decisionsThe vision statement exercise that saved Dr. Nick’s marriage and transformed his financesWhy being “outwardly successful but inwardly stressed” is so common in ministryHow to get on the same page financially with your spouse (even if one person handles the money)The “mastermind effect” happens when two minds work toward one financial goalWhy financial freedom deepens your relationship with God instead of replacing trustPractical daily activities that lead to financial peace and confidenceHow to use your financial struggles as a powerful ministry testimonyKey Quotes“If you have a church and you’re teaching the good news and all of a sudden your finances go south and you don’t have a church anymore because of that, how are you gonna teach people the good news? So prioritizing finance is absolutely important. It doesn’t make you selfish.” – Dr. Nicholas Michels“You don’t take money with you, but you take the hearts and souls of those you lead to Christ with you.” – Dr. Nicholas Michels (quoting his client Donnie)“When you’re having money problems, money sucks the joy out of every aspect of your life, every category.” – Dr. Nicholas Michels“My happiness wasn’t going up ’cause we weren’t doing it together and that was my fault.” – Dr. Nicholas Michels“I just want to know that we’re in this together.” – Dr. Nick’s wife (the turning point conversation)“Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. If you’re not aligned on where the treasure is, then you’re not aligned in terms of your hearts.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt“It wasn’t like ‘I’m not trusting God ’cause I’m working on this.’ Me and God are working on this together.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt“Happiness is on the other side of resiliency.” – Dr. Nicholas Michels“The Bible’s the greatest success money book ever written. All the great advice out there from Dave Ramsey to Warren Buffett can be found in the Bible.” – Dr. Nicholas MichelsAbout Our GuestDr. Nicholas E. Michels is a financial strategist, bestselling author, and founder of Michels Family Financial. What makes Dr. Nick unique is his personal journey from financial hardship in a broken home to financial freedom and his passion for helping people, including ministry leaders, overcome the guilt and stigma around managing money well. With his brother serving as a pastor, Nick understands the unique financial challenges that ministry families face and believes that being a good steward of your finances isn’t selfish—it’s biblical. His book, “Rich by Choice,” teaches people not just how to become wealthy, but how to be rich in faith, relationships, and life experiences.Resources MentionedRich by Choice (book by Dr. Nicholas Michels)Free Gift: The Power of Compounding Chapter – Get your free chapter at www.richbychoicebook.comMichels Family FinancialThe Vision Statement Exercise (detailed in Rich by Choice)The Rocking Chair Test – Looking back at 110 years old, what makes a great life?John Templeton Sr.’s quote: “Anything you do can be your ministry.”Jeremiah 29:11 – “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord.”Practical TakeawaysThe Vision Statement ExerciseGrab 10 pieces of paper and find a quiet areaTake 45 minutes and write out EVERYTHING you want to accomplish in lifeBe specific – not just “I want to retire” but what does Tuesday afternoon look like when you’re retired?Cover all areas: faith, personal growth, relationships, family, ministry goalsDo this separately with your spouse, then come togetherGo back through and circle what’s REALLY important (not just nice to have)From there, create the exact money strategies to get you thereGetting on the Same Page FinanciallyMake it a date day – get a babysitter and put it on the calendarSchedule financial conversations several times a yearHave one person do the budget rough draft, and the other make adjustmentsBoth should be involved, even if roles are differentAsk about each expense: “Is this getting us where we want to be? Bringing us joy? Bringing us peace?”Daily Activities for Financial PeaceBudgetingAutomationGivingInvestingSavingRegular communication with your spouseConnect with Dr. Nicholas MichelsWebsite: www.richbychoicebook.comGet your free “Power of Compounding” chapter at the website (click “Free Gift” in the header)If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.com Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

What if the money struggles you’re facing today aren’t really about your budget—but about patterns passed down from your parents and grandparents? In this powerful conversation with Andy Yoder, Ramsey Preferred Financial Coach and former youth pastor, we explore how generational money habits shape our financial decisions and, more importantly, how to break free and pass better money habits to the next generation.This post may contain affiliate links. They don’t cost you a penny, but they help provide a source of income for this site. For more information, please see our disclosures.Andy shares his own journey from financial stress and credit card anxiety to peace and purpose, revealing how his transformation didn’t just change his marriage—it became a ministry. From parents who never talked about money to emotional spending that masks loneliness, Andy unpacks the hidden patterns that keep families trapped in unhealthy money cycles.Read the Full Transcript.What You’ll LearnDiscover practical, age-appropriate ways to teach your kids about money, why your children are watching (even when you think they’re not), and how handling money well opens doors for the gospel. Whether your kids are toddlers or adults, it’s never too late to start building better money habits that will echo through generations.How generational money patterns get passed down (and how to recognize them in your own life)Why financial stress affects every area of life—marriage, parenting, and your relationship with GodThe power of testimony: How one mom in her 50s inspired her adult kids to make radical financial changesPractical ways to teach financial literacy in daily life (with real examples you can use today)Why money problems often reveal deeper needs for community, purpose, and connectionHow to include kids in family financial goals without overwhelming themThe surprising connection between faithful money management and gospel witnessWhy pastors and ministry leaders struggle to talk about their own money challengesKey Quotes“I thought it was too late, but they’re watching. And that was the, it’s the power of a testimony. It’s the power of a changed life.” – Andy Yoder“You’re handling money well, that opens up the doors for the gospel to go forth… the way that I’m handling not my money, but God’s money is, could be a direct result of somebody coming to know Jesus for the first time.” – Andy Yoder“They notice you have conversations about money that aren’t arguments. You know, they notice, oh, oh, there’s a budget meeting. They notice those things, and we don’t always think, but kids pick up on stuff.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt“The most important decisions are the small ones. And that’s where you’re making one small decision at a time.” – Andy Yoder’s mentorAbout Our GuestAndy Yoder is a Ramsey Preferred Financial Coach who spent years in youth ministry and as an associate pastor before discovering his calling to help families achieve generational financial transformation. After his own journey from financial anxiety to freedom (beginning in 2016-2017), Andy now specializes in helping individuals and couples—especially those in ministry—break free from generational money patterns and build better money habits. His heart for seeing kids stay connected to their faith naturally connects to his passion for helping parents pass on both spiritual and financial wisdom to the next generation.Resources MentionedDave Ramsey’s “The Total Money Makeover“Financial Peace UniversityThe Baby StepsPractical TakeawaysTeaching Moments to Try This Week:Use junk mail ads to discuss the real cost of financing purchasesGive kids a budget at the fair or store and let them make spending decisionsInclude children in family financial goals with a vision boardDivide allowance into three categories: give, save, spendInvolve kids in Christmas shopping with a set budget per personLet teenagers participate in car shopping discussions (cash only!)For Parents:Track your spending for one week—just observe without judgmentHave one money conversation with your spouse that isn’t an argumentIdentify one money pattern from your childhood you’d like to changeFind one trusted person to talk honestly about your financial challengesIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Looking for the Episode Transcript?Episode DescriptionIs your church building sitting empty most of the week while your bills pile up? In this practical conversation with ministry consultant Loren Richmond, Jr., we explore how churches can transform their facilities from financial burdens into thriving community hubs.Loren brings a unique perspective from his years as a pastor, food pantry director, and public housing coordinator. He shares seven creative strategies churches are using to generate revenue while genuinely serving their communities—from music centers and senior ministry programs to emergency response partnerships with utility companies.Discover why the average church size has dropped from 130 to 65 people, how cultural shifts have changed community outreach, and most importantly—how to balance financial sustainability with your church’s mission of creating followers of Jesus. This episode is packed with practical ideas you can implement without losing sight of what matters most.What You’ll LearnWhy churches need to rethink their building strategy in today’s financial and cultural climateHow to transform your church building into a music center with lessons, recitals, and performancesCreative ways to serve the growing senior adult population while generating sustainable revenueHow to partner with utility companies for emergency response and crisis ministryThe importance of accounting for true costs—even when donating spaceHow to start slow and set proper boundaries to protect your church’s missionFirst steps to take: pray, survey needs, and assess your resourcesKey Quotes“The normative size church is 65, so it’s half of what it was [20-30 years ago]. The giving levels just aren’t what they were… So like practically speaking, like the math just doesn’t work.” – Loren Richmond, Jr.“Don’t lose track of what the main thing is… I believe we’re trying to create followers of Jesus here. That being said, find creative ways to engage with our neighbors and reach them where they’re at.” – Loren Richmond, Jr.“We can’t just assume that even though we’re giving space to the Boys and Girls Club or the scouts, there’s a cost to that… It’s gonna be important for us to account for what that cost might be, whether it’s electricity, plumbing, water, wear and tear.” – Loren Richmond, Jr.“You win when you show up. Sometimes showing up looks like making it to the coaching call even when you didn’t do your homework. Sometimes it looks like sitting down for the budget meeting with your spouse.” – Joy Suzanne HuntAbout Our GuestLoren Richmond, Jr. is a ministry consultant, pastor, chaplain, and nonprofit leader writing and speaking at the intersection of faith, culture, and church renewal. With more than a decade of leadership in churches and community nonprofits, Loren draws from a deep well of lived experience, both pastoral and practical.He holds an M.Div from Phillips Theological Seminary and an MBA with a nonprofit emphasis from Hope International University. Loren has served in diverse roles from founding pastor to food pantry director to public housing coordinator. He is also the host of the Future Christian Podcast, where he interviews ministry leaders, scholars, and change makers to explore how historic faith can speak meaningfully today.The 7 Strategies DiscussedMusic Center Ministry – Offers music lessons, hosts recitals and performances, utilizes existing instruments and skilled musicians on staffSenior Adult Ministry Hub – Create socialization spaces, meal programs, and light assistance with daily tasks for the growing 55+ populationEmergency Response Partnerships – Partner with utility companies to serve as cooling/warming centers or emergency response locations during crisesGrant-Funded Community Programs – Develop food programs and other community services that qualify for government or nonprofit grant fundingYouth Ministry Spaces – Address the mental health crisis by creating safe spaces for young people to connect and build relationshipsBusiness Networking Events – Host lunch-and-learns and professional networking groups that serve as valuable “third spaces.”Multi-Purpose Community Hub – Rent to values-aligned organizations like preschools, scouts, AA groups, and sports teamsResources MentionedLoren’s website: resonatepurpose.orgFuture Christian PodcastThe Church Nerd on SubstackPrevious episode with Ken McQuiller on grant funding for churchesKey TakeawaysStart with Prayer and Assessment:Pray for God’s directionSurvey needs in your church and neighborhoodTake stock of your physical, human, and financial resourcesLook for the overlap between resources, opportunities, and missionAccount for True Costs:Even donated space has costs (utilities, wear and tear, maintenance)Add line items to your budget for space use—even if you’re not chargingWhen necessary, ask organizations to contribute at below-market ratesProtect Your Mission:Don’t let building usage become the highest valueSet clear boundaries (example: no building use on Sunday mornings)Ensure activities align with creating followers of JesusStart slow—work out the kinks with one group at a timeBuild Relationships:Every program creates opportunities for pastoral care and connectionWhen people face crises, they’ll remember the church that was already presentFocus on proximity and relationship, not just transactionsLightning Round AnswersBest leadership habit: Developing consistent habits—Loren sets aside Monday afternoons for writing and shows up even when he doesn’t feel inspiredFavorite verse: “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief” (Mark 9:24)One piece of advice for pastors: “The most important characteristic is the ability to get out of bed on a Monday morning… so many things in life are just doing it and doing it again, and doing it again.”If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Housing Allowances, Reimbursement Plans, and Tax Strategies Every Ministry Leader Needs00:00:00 – Welcome & Introduction00:01:00 – Ministry Spotlight: The Adams Family in Bolivia00:02:00 – Meet Gale Sciascia: Tax Planning Expert00:04:00 – The Dual Tax Status Challenge Pastors Face00:06:00 – Housing Allowances: Your Most Valuable Tax Break00:07:00 – How Your Church Board Should Approve Housing Allowances00:09:00 – How Housing Allowances Show Up on Your W200:11:00 – Should You DIY Your Ministry Taxes?00:13:00 – Accountable Reimbursement Plans: Stop Paying Tax on Money That Isn\’t Income00:16:00 – Handling Your Wedding and Speaking Income the Right Way00:18:00 – One Proactive Step to Reduce Your Tax Anxiety This Week00:19:00 – Building Tax Tracking Into Your Weekly Routine00:22:00 – Why the IRS Cares So Much About Mileage00:23:00 – Lightning Round: Financial Habits That Make a Difference00:30:00 – Thank You for ListeningFor the Full Episode Transcript Click HereMinistry Spotlight: The Adams Family in BoliviaMicah and Karissa Adams serve as missionaries to six indigenous tribal groups in the Amazon jungles of Bolivia, using medical outreach and oral Bible storytelling to share the Gospel with communities that have waited over 2,000 years to hear it. Learn more and find out how to support their ministry at pastorsandmoney.com/spotlight.Show NotesAre you leaving money on the table because you don’t understand how ministry taxes work? In this essential conversation with Gale Sciascia—enrolled agent and co-founder of Sasha Tax and Retirement—we break down the tax strategies every pastor and ministry leader needs to know.Gale explains the unique tax situation pastors face: considered an employee for income taxes but self-employed for Social Security and Medicare. This dual status creates confusion and leads to missed opportunities like underutilizing housing allowances, failing to set up proper reimbursement plans, and not planning for self-employment tax.From understanding how housing allowances work whether you live in a parsonage, own your home, or rent, to setting up accountable reimbursement plans that stop you from paying taxes on money that isn’t really income, this episode gives you clear, actionable steps to reduce your tax burden and protect what you’ve earned. Plus, Gale shares the one proactive step you can take this week to transform tax anxiety into confidence.What You’ll LearnWhy pastors have dual tax status and what that means for your financesHow housing allowances work and why proper documentation is criticalThe difference between housing allowances for parsonages, owned homes, and rentalsWhat an accountable reimbursement plan is and why every church needs oneHow to handle side income from weddings and speaking engagements correctlyThe biggest documentation mistakes that lead to failed auditsWhy mileage tracking is one of the IRS’s biggest red flagsOne proactive step to reduce tax anxiety and set yourself up for successWhether you should DIY your ministry taxes or hire a specialistKey Quotes“Pastors don’t necessarily understand that they have sort of dual status. So they are considered an employee for income taxes, but self-employed for Social Security and Medicare. And so that tends to raise some confusion for them, and it also leads to some missed opportunities.” – Gale Sciascia“The easiest way to fail an audit or have expenses disallowed and bring on other challenges is not having proper documentation.” – Gale Sciascia“We want you to have [an accountable reimbursement plan] so that you can be reimbursed and it not be included in your income, then you’re not paying tax on a dollar amount that is not really income.” – Gale Sciascia“Don’t wait. Claim your salvation, right? Like, don’t wait until tomorrow. Do it today.” – Gale Sciascia (quoting Pastor Robbie)“Finances are a tool to help you sustain what you’re called to do. We need to keep our mission moving with integrity and balance and use the tools available to us.” – Gale SciasciaAbout Our GuestGale Sciascia is a recognized enrolled agent and co-founder of Sasha Tax and Retirement. With over 15 years of experience, Gale helps business owners, professionals, and ministry leaders translate complicated tax code into clear actionable strategies. As a federally licensed tax professional authorized by the United States Department of Treasury, she represents taxpayers before the IRS in all 50 states, handling everything from tax preparation and planning to collections and audits. Her mission is simple: educate, break financial restraints, and transform tax anxiety into wealth-building confidence.Resources MentionedShasha Tax and Retirement: shashatr.comPhone: 615-723-1570Mileage tracking apps, like EverlanceQuickBooks for financial trackingMicrosoft Excel for budgeting (Looking for the perfect business spreadsheet?)Documentation You Need as a PastorChurch board meeting minutes (for housing allowance approval)Pastor’s compensation agreementReceipts for all housing expenses (mortgage/rent, utilities, furniture, repairs, insurance, maintenance)Expense reports for reimbursements (submitted within 30-45 days)Mileage logsImportant Note from Gale: Work with a tax professional who specializes in clergy taxes. Generic tax software or non-specialized preparers may miss important deductions available to pastors.Key Action StepsThis week: Start organizing your tax documentation digitally—receipts, invoices, and proof of payment for all housing and ministry-related expensesCheck with your church board: Ask if you have a housing allowance designation and an accountable reimbursement plan in placeFor next year: Ensure your housing allowance is approved by your church board before the end of the year so it takes effect with your first paycheckDownload a mileage tracking app: Stop guessing at your ministry mileage and start documenting it properlyBuild it into your hiring process: Create templates for housing allowance agreements and reimbursement plans for all ministry staffIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

View the Full Episode TranscriptEpisode DescriptionWhat happens when church leaders are so busy doing ministry that they lose their intimacy with Christ? In this powerful conversation with Mike van Pelt—Christian men’s coach, author, and speaker—we explore the hidden struggles pastors face and why asking for help is one of the most courageous things a leader can do.Mike shares his personal journey from church burnout to discovering true intimacy with Christ at a men’s retreat, and how that breakthrough led him to create True Man Life Coaching. From the pressure to “have it all together” to the dangerous pattern of burying emotions, Mike reveals why so many ministry leaders struggle in silence—and what it costs them, their families, and their churches.Discover why building margin in your life isn’t optional, how ego and pride prevent leaders from getting the help they need, and why the younger generations might actually have something to teach us about vulnerability. This episode offers both challenge and hope for pastors who know they need help but don’t know where to start.What You’ll LearnThe difference between belief in Christ and relationship with Christ—and why pastors can lose intimacy while doing church workWhy men (and male pastors especially) struggle to show emotions and ask for helpHow church leadership becomes a job that crowds out personal worship and spiritual intimacyThe importance of building margin in your life as a ministry leaderWhy “fake it till you make it” is dangerous modeling for your congregationHow to silence the inner voice that says “you’re supposed to have all the answers”Practical first steps for pastors who know they need help but don’t know where to startWhy Gen Z and Millennials are seeking answers from the church—and what that means for ministry leadersKey Quotes“Even though I’d been a Christian all my life, even though I was actively involved in the church, one of the things that was missing, and I didn’t know it at the time, was I did not have an intimate relationship with Christ.” – Mike van Pelt“I just remember staring up at the ceiling in the gym… And what I realized was, I’m going to church on Sunday. I’m not even hearing what the pastor saying, I’m getting nothing outta this.” – Mike van Pelt“In that moment, Christ came to me and said, I want a relationship with you. You’re my beloved son… I had no idea that kind of relationship was available.” – Mike van Pelt“What a pastor’s doing in that moment [when asking for help] is modeling something really important—it’s okay to get help.” – Mike van Pelt“The challenges that pastors face as leaders in the churches is incredibly daunting in this age… There’s just no possible way a single human being could be equipped to deal with all of it.” – Mike van Pelt“I think it demonstrates courage to ask for help… and it also makes it safe for the next person to ask for help.” – Joy Suzanne HuntAbout Our GuestMike van Pelt is a Christian men’s coach, author, and speaker who helps men break free from limiting beliefs, reclaim their identity, and live with boldness and authenticity. Through his signature message—the power of asking for help—drawn from his book True Man, True Ways: A Roadmap of Discovery to the Masculine Heart, Mike equips men to step into God-honoring leadership, build lasting legacies, and live with conviction in every area of life. He hosts the True Man Podcast and leads weekly men’s groups focused on deep, authentic relationships.Resources MentionedTrue Man, True Ways: A Roadmap of Discovery to the Masculine Heart by Mike van PeltTrue Man Life Coaching: truemanlifecoaching.comTrue Man PodcastProverbs 3:5-6 (Mike’s go-to verse for encouragement)1 Timothy 4:12 (Setting an example / becoming an example)Practical Action StepsStart journaling – Get your thoughts and feelings down on paper. Ask yourself: “What am I feeling right now?” Then take it to God: “What do you think about this?”Find 1-2 trusted mentors – Keep your circle small but intentional. Find people who will listen well and ask powerful questions.Attend a men’s retreat – If you’ve never been to a retreat, consider it. These environments create space for breakthrough and deeper relationship with God.Create margin in your schedule – Build in time where you’re not “fixing” or leading—time to just be with God and process life.Practice vulnerability strategically – Choose what to be vulnerable about and with whom. You don’t have to share everything with everyone, but you do need to get help.Connect with Mike van PeltWebsite: truemanlifecoaching.comFacebook: Mark van PeltYouTube: youtube.com/marksent1Mike is also developing speaking engagements for churches and organizations about the power of asking for help, especially as it relates to different generations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.comLeave a comment on the show notes: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God’s mission in our churches and families.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.com Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

View the episode transcript here.Episode DescriptionWhat if retirement isn’t about fishing and golfing for the rest of your life? In this powerful conversation with legacy strategist Kyle Gabhart, we explore a radically different view of pastors retirement, one rooted in biblical examples and kingdom purpose.Kyle uses Moses as a biblical model for understanding retirement, showing how he had two complete 40-year careers before training his successor Joshua. This challenges our cultural assumption that retirement means the end of purposeful work. Instead, Kyle advocates for “retiring to something, not just from something.”Discover why the traditional model of compartmentalizing life—building wealth first, then serving later—is shortsighted and potentially dangerous. Learn the difference between “leaving a legacy” and “living a legacy,” and why waiting until your golden years to pursue ministry and purpose might mean missing the opportunities God has for you today.From King David’s “side hustle” that became his most lasting contribution, to the urgent need for succession planning in ministry, this episode will challenge how you think about the later seasons of life and inspire you to integrate purpose, ministry, and legacy throughout your entire journeyWhat You’ll LearnWhy Moses provides the only biblical example of something resembling retirementThe danger of compartmentalizing life into “career years” and “ministry years”How to shift from “leaving a legacy” to “living a legacy” starting todayWhy the fishing-and-golfing retirement model leaves people feeling hollow and unsatisfiedHow to “date” different ministries and passions before fully committing in later yearsThe critical importance of succession planning and mentoring as part of your job descriptionWhy identity should be rooted in Christ, not your vocation or careerPractical steps for preparing for later years while staying purposeful todayHow King David’s “side hustle” became his greatest ministry contributionThe pastor pipeline crisis and why training the next generation is urgentKey Quotes“It’s absolutely okay to retire from something, but it’s important that you retire to something. The notion that society has filled our minds with of nose to the grindstone, build up a theoretical pool of dollars, and then fish and golf the rest of your life is absurd.” – Kyle Gabhart“If legacy is simply something you leave behind, then what’s really happening is you’re kinda walking out that proverbial door. As you go towards the light, you toss this legacy over your shoulder… If you shift from leaving a legacy to living one, well now that’s something you can roll your sleeves up and actively get involved with today.” – Kyle Gabhart“As long as you’ve got blood pumping through your veins, you’ve got air in your lungs, the Lord’s not done with you. There’s a purpose for you. We’re told that our days are numbered, and so he’s keeping you around for a reason and you need to figure out what that is and get busy.” – Kyle Gabhart“Your assignment will change, your calling won’t change.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt“We unfortunately in our society tend to define identity by vocation… career number one might be a shepherd, but that doesn’t mean that you are a shepherd. It means that for 40 years you shepherded.” – Kyle GabhartAbout Our GuestKyle Gabhart is a seasoned speaker, strategist, and author known for helping people live with greater purpose across faith, family, and finances. Whether guiding business leaders through legacy planning or inspiring audiences from the stage, Kyle’s message is rooted in timeless truth and practical wisdom. He’s also the author of The Canteen, a raw and moving account of his life-changing mission trip to Africa at age 19—a story that challenges us to let go of comfort and control and discover the quiet abundance that comes when we fully depend on God.Resources MentionedThe Canteen by Kyle GabhartWin at Work and Succeed at Life by Michael HyattKyle’s website: kylegabhart.comNext StepsAsk yourself: “What’s next?” – Make this a regular question you bring to the Lord, even during your current seasonStart “dating” different ministries, nonprofits, or passion projects to see what resonates with your valuesMake succession planning and mentoring part of your job description, not just a spare-time activityExamine whether you’re compartmentalizing your life into “career years” and “ministry years” – look for ways to integrate purpose and legacy nowConsider: What “side hustle” or passion project might God be calling you to develop that could become your greatest kingdom contribution?If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

00:00:00 – Introduction to Justin Bennett00:01:00 – Defining Financial Freedom vs. Financial Independence00:02:00 – What Most People Misunderstand About Financial Independence00:03:00 – The Importance of a Strong Financial Foundation00:04:00 – Why Pastors Chase Financial Independence Without Building the Foundation First00:06:00 – What Ministry Leaders Really Want From Financial Independence00:08:00 – How Financial Freedom Opens Up Possibilities That Seemed Impossible00:09:00 – Real-Life Stories of Financial Transformation00:12:00 – When There\’s No Hope, We Won\’t Sacrifice00:14:00 – The Impact of Financial Health on Ministry00:16:00 – Challenges and Solutions for Church Finances00:20:00 – The Broader Implications of Financial Stability00:23:00 – The Importance of Downtime and Hobbies for Pastors00:25:00 – Steps to Achieve Financial Freedom00:27:00 – The Power of Awareness in Financial Management00:29:00 – Tracking Expenses: A Key to Financial Control00:33:00 – The First Step Ministry Leaders Should Take This Week00:36:00 – How Intentional Spending Leads to Better Ministry Choices00:39:00 – Lightning Round: Quick Financial Tips00:42:00 – Why Debt-Free Churches and Congregations Transform Communities00:43:00 – Conclusion and ResourcesEpisode Show Notes – View the Full TranscriptWhat’s the real difference between financial freedom and financial independence—and why does it matter for pastors and ministry leaders? In this conversation with financial coach Justin Bennett, we explore how achieving financial freedom (being debt-free except for your house, having an emergency fund, and living on less than you make) creates a foundation that transforms not just your bank account, but your entire ministry.Justin shares powerful stories of transformation, including clients who discovered hope when they finally saw a clear path out of debt, and explains why that “$1,500-2,000 per month in debt payments” most families are making could be redirected toward generosity, family health, and kingdom impact. We also tackle the hard truths about why church plants fail, how financial stress affects pastor’s kids, and why 100,000 churches may close in the next decade—often due to financial issues that could have been prevented.This isn’t just theory. Justin has coached over 1,000 clients to pay off more than $10 million in combined debt, and he breaks down the practical five-level framework that works for ministry leaders just as well as anyone else.View the full transcript.What You’ll LearnThe critical difference between financial freedom and financial independence (and why confusion between them keeps people stuck)Why the first step isn’t actually budgeting—it’s defining what you’re trying to achieveHow paying off debt creates a “belief system” that makes other impossible goals suddenly seem achievableThe real cost of that $1,500-2,000/month in debt payments most families carryWhy “when there’s no hope, we won’t sacrifice”—and how hope changes everythingHow one pastor’s personal debt freedom prevented his church plant from failingWhy pastors sharing their financial wins with their congregation can save marriages and keep tithers engagedThe five levels to achieve financial freedom: Awareness, Knowledge, Commitment, Momentum, and FreedomWhy manually tracking expenses for just 14 days will shock you into actionHow one client found $500/month in forgotten subscriptions (and half weren’t even being used)Key Quotes“Financial freedom is where you’re not a slave to the lender as Proverbs 22:7 says. Financial independence is where you don’t have to work. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t work, but just means you don’t have to work in order to take care of your family.” – Justin Bennett“When there’s no hope, we’ll never sacrifice. When we have hope we can do it, it’s worth paying the price to see if we can get there.” – Justin Bennett“Hope is the only thing stronger than fear.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt (quoting The Hunger Games)“A lot of church plants fail because of the pastor’s personal finances. Because the church isn’t at a point to be able to support them yet. And the pastor’s personal finances are not in a position to be able to sustain after the fundraising money runs out.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt“If you’re a pastor or a leader and you share what God did financially, how you got out of debt… if just one household from your church gets it, a marriage could be saved.” – Justin Bennett“When you’re neck deep in debt, you’re not worried about the next vision. You’re going, how do I eat?” – Justin Bennett“I can’t fully bring something to God and surrender it to him if I don’t know what I’m bringing to him.” – Joy Suzanne HuntAbout Our GuestJustin Bennett has spent the last two decades coaching over 1,000 clients to gain control of their money and pay off a combined debt total of over $10 million. His debut book, Level Up Your Finances, tackles the core financial issues that hold people back from winning with their money. His straightforward, no-nonsense style helps people move from living paycheck to paycheck to achieving real financial freedom. Justin is passionate about helping ministry leaders and their congregations achieve debt freedom so they can focus on kingdom impact rather than financial survival.Resources MentionedLevel Up Your Finances by Justin Bennett (available in audiobook, hardcover, paperback, and ebook)Level Up Your Finances website: levelupyourfinances.comGenerous Giving ministryThe SALT Network (church planting in college communities)Action StepsFor pastors and ministry leaders ready to start moving toward financial freedom:This week: Begin tracking your expenses manually for 14 days. Don’t use an app—write it down or type it out. You need to see every transaction to understand your spending patterns.Look for: Duplicate subscriptions, unused services, and the total number of transactions (you’ll likely be shocked).Remember: This isn’t about judgment—it’s about awareness. You can’t manage what you don’t measure.Next step: Once you have awareness, move to the knowledge phase—learn how to budget, save, and get out of debt using proven methods.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

00:00:00 – From Pastor’s Kid to Wilderness Wanderer00:02:00 – Growing Up Under the Microscope: A Pastor’s Kid Journey00:04:00 – The Canteen: Where Pastors Find Peace Through Surrender00:06:00 – The Moment of Complete Surrender 00:09:00 – Experiencing True Spiritual Hunger: How Pastors Find Peace in God’s Timing00:13:00 – Lessons from Deuteronomy 8: Finding Peace Through God’s Provision00:17:00 – Breaking Free from Self-Sufficiency: How Pastors Find Peace in God’s Partnership00:19:00 – God’s Invitation to Partnership: From Creation to Today00:22:00 – Practical Ways Churches Can Find Peace in God’s Provision00:23:00 – Creating Sacred Space: When Pastors Find Peace Through Divine Encounters00:26:00 – Connect with Kyle Gabhart View the Episode Transcript here.Episode DescriptionWhat happens when a 19-year-old pastor’s kid from suburban Texas gets dropped into the wilderness of Southern Africa? For Kyle Gabhart, it became a life-changing lesson in surrendering control and discovering God’s provision. In this powerful conversation, Kyle shares the story behind his book “The Canteen” and reveals how a desperate moment on an African mountain taught him the difference between self-sufficiency and true dependence on God.Kyle draws fascinating parallels between his wilderness experience and the Israelites’ journey in Deuteronomy 8, showing how God uses seasons of uncertainty to prepare us for His promises. From experiencing true spiritual hunger in Zimbabwean villages to understanding the balance between faithful stewardship and passive waiting, this episode challenges pastors to examine what they’re gripping onto instead of trusting God completely.Discover practical ways churches can create space for the Holy Spirit while maintaining good stewardship, and learn how to move from Western self-sufficiency to biblical dependence without becoming passive in your calling.What You’ll LearnThe life-changing lesson Kyle learned when he ran out of water on an African mountainHow African believers demonstrated true “hunger and thirst for righteousness”Key lessons from Deuteronomy 8 about God’s provision and the dangers of prosperityThe difference between self-sufficiency and healthy stewardshipHow Jesus’ feeding of the 5,000 illustrates God’s partnership with our effortsPractical ways churches can hold plans loosely while maintaining good stewardshipHow to create sacred spaces for God to work in structured church environmentsWhy God chooses to multiply our “loaves and fishes” rather than work independentlyKey Quotes“My challenge, my encouragement to folks is to figure out what their metaphorical canteen is that they’re gripping onto and to empty it so that they can receive what the Lord has to give them.” – Kyle Gabhart“So that is hungering and thirsting after righteousness. And I thought I knew what it looked like, and then I experienced people that genuinely craved spiritual connection.” – Kyle Gabhart“God is ready, willing, and able to multiply our efforts, but he asks for us to step into and meet him our way in that, and we bring him our proverbial loaves and fishes so that there is something to multiply.” – Kyle Gabhart“It’s so easy for us to fall into the trap of thinking that it’s us, rather than remembering that he’s the source of all of it.” – Kyle GabhartAbout Our GuestKyle Gabhart is a seasoned speaker, strategist, and author known for helping people live with greater purpose across faith, family, and finances. Whether guiding business leaders through legacy planning or inspiring audiences from the stage, Kyle’s message is rooted in timeless truth and practical wisdom. He’s the author of “The Canteen,” a raw and moving account of his life-changing mission trip to Africa at the age of 19 that challenges readers to let go of comfort and control and discover the quiet abundance that comes when we fully depend on God.Resources Mentioned“The Canteen” by Kyle GabhartKyle Gabhart’s website: kylegabhart.comDeuteronomy 8 (Israelites’ wilderness journey)The feeding of the 5,000 (loaves and fishes miracle)Next Steps for PastorsExamine your “canteen” – What are you gripping onto for security instead of trusting God completely?Create sacred space – Consider implementing worship nights, extended prayer times, or other opportunities for your congregation to hunger and thirst for righteousnessHold plans loosely – Review your church planning process to ensure you’re leaving room for the Holy Spirit to directPractice active dependence – Bring your “loaves and fishes” to God and watch Him multiply your faithful effortsIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

00:00:00 – Introduction to the Pastors & Money Podcast00:01:00 – Meet Justin Bennett: Financial Coach Extraordinaire00:02:00 – Justin\’s Journey into Financial Coaching00:04:00 – Common Financial Struggles and Solutions00:07:00 – Unique Ministry Money Problems for Pastors00:09:00 – The Isolation of Pastors and Financial Struggles00:11:30 – The Power of Vulnerability and Accountability00:14:45 – Success Stories and Real-Life Impact00:16:30 – The Importance of Accountability in Finances00:20:15 – Breaking Free from Isolation00:22:00 – How Sharing Breaks the Shame Cycle00:25:00 – The Enemy\’s Tactics Against Ministry Leaders00:27:45 – Final Thoughts and Encouragement00:28:45 – God\’s Ministry, Not Yours00:31:00 – Lightning Round and Conclusion00:31:15 – Connect with Justin Bennett00:32:30 – Take Action TodayEpisode Show NotesWhy do pastors struggle with money despite having biblical knowledge about stewardship? In this eye-opening conversation with financial coach Justin Bennett—who has helped clients pay off over $10 million in debt—we uncover the unique ministry money problems that pastors face in silence.Justin reveals the extra layers of shame and guilt that ministry leaders carry, the isolation that keeps them trapped in financial struggles, and why they often wait until rock bottom before seeking help. From the fear of losing their job if the board discovers their debt, to wondering what congregation members will think if they take on a second job, pastors face challenges that extend beyond simple budgeting.Discover how accountability breaks the cycle of financial isolation, why sharing takes away the shame, and how getting financial help actually makes pastors more effective in ministry. This conversation will challenge you to break free from the lies that keep ministry leaders struggling in the dark.Click here for the full episode transcript.What You’ll LearnWhy pastors and ministry leaders face unique financial challenges beyond typical money problemsThe extra layers of shame and guilt that keep ministry leaders from seeking helpHow financial stress becomes a major distraction from God’s calling on pastors’ livesWhy most people (including pastors) don’t reach out for help until they hit rock bottomThe isolation trap that Satan uses to keep ministry leaders stuck in financial strugglesHow vulnerability and accountability create breakthrough moments for pastorsWhy sharing your struggles takes away their power and opens the door to solutionsPractical steps pastors can take this week to break out of financial isolationHow getting financial help actually makes pastors more effective in their ministryKey Quotes“I am convinced isolation is Satan’s playground. That’s where we listen to lies.” – Justin Bennett“I’ve seen time and time again, whether it’s ministry leaders, pastors, missionaries, they get their finances under control, it’s amazing how much more focus they can be on what God’s called them.” – Justin Bennett“It ain’t your ministry, God’s ministry. And what a humbling opportunity that God says – you get to be a privilege of the process.” – Justin Bennett“I heard somebody say once that sharing takes away the shame, and it’s like letting the air outta the balloon. The balloon is still there, it just doesn’t have any power anymore.” – Joy Suzanne HuntAbout Our GuestJustin Bennett has coached over 1,000 clients in the last two decades to gain control of their money and pay off a combined debt total of over $10 million. In his debut book, “Level Up Your Finances,” Justin tackles the core financial issues that hold people back from winning with their money. His straightforward, no-nonsense style helps people move from living paycheck to paycheck to achieving real financial freedom. His tagline says it all: “Say goodbye to winging it with money.”Books“Level Up Your Finances” by Justin Bennett – Available in hardback, paperback, ebook, and audiobook (read by the author)Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University program – Mentioned as transformative for both Justin and Joy’s financial journeysWebsiteslevelupyourfinances.com – Justin’s book website with direct Amazon link, free resources, and coaching informationpastorsandmoney.com – Joy’s website with episode show notes and resourcesCoaching & Professional ServicesJustin Bennett Financial Coaching – Offers free consultations, available through his websiteRamsey Coaching Community – Network where Joy and Justin connectedPastors & Money Coaching Referrals – Joy maintains a list of coaches with a heart for pastors (contact: joy@pastorsandmoney.com)Bible Verses & ReferencesFirst Timothy 4:12-16 – “Don’t let anyone look down on you because you’re young, but set an example for the believers” (discussed in context of being a work in progress)First Peter 5:10-11 – “After you have suffered a little while, Jesus will personally come to restore you” (Justin’s go-to encouragement verse)Proverbs 13:12 – “Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but desire accomplished is a tree of life” (used in Justin’s client follow-up sessions)Galatians 6 – “Share one another’s burdens” (burden described as like a boulder)Proverbs 18:1 – “He who isolates himself rebels against all wise counsel and sound judgment”Tools & Methods30-day expense tracking – Justin’s first assignment for all clientsMonthly budget creation and living – Justin’s personal best financial habitSpreadsheet budgeting – Justin’s preferred budgeting toolZoom/FaceTime coaching – Remote coaching options for pastors who prefer privacyJustin’s Lightning Round AnswersBest financial habit: Creating and living on a budgetBudgeting tool: SpreadsheetGo-to Bible verse: First Peter 5:10-11 – “After you have suffered a little while, Jesus will personally come to restore you”Next Steps for Pastors Struggling FinanciallyMake the commitment to talk to somebody – whether a trusted friend, coach, or fellow pastor outside your contextReach out to Joy at joy@pastorsandmoney.com for coaching referrals specifically for pastorsVisit levelupyourfinances.com for Justin’s book and free consultationRemember: Getting help isn’t a sign of failure – it’s being a good steward of what God has entrusted to youIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Show NotesFeeling overwhelmed in ministry? You’re not alone. In this powerful conversation, Robert Bass, host of the Healthy Christian Podcast, shares proven strategies for developing healthy habits for pastors that prevent burnout and create sustainable ministry success.Robert brings a unique perspective as a former tennis player, mechanic, and personal trainer turned pastor. He reveals why most ministry leaders struggle with balance and offers practical solutions for physical, mental, and spiritual wellness. For the episode transcript, click here.00:00:00 – Guest Introduction & Welcome00:00:55 – Robert Bass\’s Journey to Ministry00:01:30 – Starting the Healthy Christian Podcast00:02:05 – Defining True Health for Christians00:02:59 – Common Barriers to Health in Ministry00:03:53 – The Impact of Busyness and Balance00:06:03 – Financial Stress and Ministry Effectiveness00:06:54 – The Principle of Tithing and Perspective00:08:13 – Time Management and Prioritizing Relationships00:11:35 – Practical Habits for Ministry Leaders00:13:02 – The \’Ideal Week\’ and Setting Boundaries00:16:57 – Stewarding the Body as a Gift00:19:28 – Integrating Physical, Mental, and Spiritual Health 00:21:34 – Stories of Transformation00:23:29 – Taking the First Step Toward Health00:23:51 – Slowing Down to Catch Up to God00:27:09 – Resources and Closing RemarksWhat You’ll LearnWhy “busy” should be a bad word in ministryThe difference between time WITH God vs. doing things FOR GodHow to implement the “Ideal Week” strategy for better time managementWhy your body is a gift that requires intentional stewardshipThe connection between financial stress and ministry effectivenessOne powerful quote to remember when feeling overwhelmedKey Quote“Slow down to catch up to God” – A transformative principle for overwhelmed ministersGuest BioRobert Bass is the host of the Healthy Christian Podcast and author of the Hidden Fruit Book. His mission is empowering believers to live fulfilled lives by integrating biblical principles with practical wellness steps, particularly helping pastors avoid burnout and lead from wholeness.Resources MentionedBooksHidden Fruit Book by Robert BassFocus: Fruit of the Holy Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience)Free offer: Visit hiddenfruitbook.com and enter code “sample”Concepts/FrameworksThe Ideal Week – Time management strategy for ministry leadersMentioned as being taught by Michael HyattNavy SEALs principle: “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast”Scripture ReferencesWalking in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16) – “Walk in the spirit and you won’t fulfill the desires of the flesh”Body as temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19)Tithing principlesQuotes“Slow down to catch up to God” – Key principle for overwhelmed ministers“Fear is afraid of pen and paper” – Encouragement for dealing with the stress and unknownPractical Tools MentionedCalendar evaluation and planningIntentional meal breaks away from the workspaceExercise schedulingTime tithing practice (36-day fast at beginning of year)Related Concepts for Further StudyPhysical fitness as spiritual disciplineMichael Hyatt’s productivity methodsStewardship principles in ministryWork-life balance for church leadersConnect with Robert BassPodcast: The Healthy Christian PodcastWebsite: hiddenfruitbook.comSocial Media: @Robert A. Bass (Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn)Book offer: Use code “sample” at hiddenfruitbook.com for free copyNext StepsStart small today—take a five-minute walk, schedule time with God, or evaluate your calendar. Remember: something is better than nothing when building healthy habits for sustainable ministry.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.com Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

A Complete Guide with Ken McQuillerShow NotesAre you leaving money on the table? Many churches and ministries could be accessing grant funding but don’t know where to start. In this comprehensive episode, Ken McQuiller—CEO of Nonprofit Missionary and grant writing expert—reveals how faith-based organizations can unlock funding opportunities that complement traditional tithes and offerings.Ken shares his journey from a “lazy urban missionary” who learned grant writing through trial and error to helping organizations secure over $1 million in funding. Discover the three primary sources of grants, practical tools for finding opportunities, and why being faith-based doesn’t disqualify you from funding.From afterschool programs and food pantries to workforce development and senior ministry, learn which church initiatives qualify for grants and how to navigate the application process successfully. Ken addresses common misconceptions, ethical considerations, and shares real success stories of churches transforming their community impact through strategic grant funding.Whether you’re a pastor curious about grants or ready to dive into applications, this episode provides the roadmap you need to explore this underutilized funding source.00:00:00 – Introduction to Ken McQuiller00:01:08 – Ken\’s Journey into Grant Writing00:04:39 – Understanding Grants for Churches00:08:55 – Finding and Applying for Grants00:16:25 – Common Misconceptions and Mistakes00:23:09 – Ethical Considerations and Success Stories00:32:50 – Final Advice and Contact InformationClick here for the Episode 37 Transcript for Funding Your Faith: Grant Writing 101 for Pastors and ChurchesWhat You’ll LearnThe three primary sources of grant funding (foundations, corporate, and government)Practical tools and strategies for finding grant opportunitiesWhy faith-based organizations CAN receive grants despite common misconceptionsWhich church programs and initiatives are most likely to qualify for fundingStep-by-step process for researching and applying for grantsHow to build relationships with funders before applyingCommon mistakes churches make in grant applicationsEthical considerations when evaluating potential fundersWhy grants typically fund 10-20% of program budgets (not 100%)Financial tracking and reporting requirements for grant recipientsKey Quotes“For me, I think that grants is probably one of the most underutilized resources by the church. Every church is doing something in the community… and whatever that might be, there are probably a grant or two available for that.” – Ken McQuiller“We are unapologetically faith-based. And so when foundations are looking us up and they’re looking at our website, that is the first thing that they see and yet they still give to us. So it is possible.” – Ken McQuiller“Don’t give up. What you’re doing is so important to our community, and not just for the community, but for the kingdom of God. And I know it’s hard to find funding, but I know what it looks like on the other side, so keep going.” – Ken McQuillerAbout Our GuestKen McQuiller is the CEO and founder of Nonprofit Missionary, a grant writing business that helps faith-based and community-centered organizations secure funding. Based in Cleveland, Ohio, Ken holds a master’s degree in nonprofit administration and serves as an associate pastor at the Meeting Place Church. Over the past seven years, he has helped six nonprofits secure over $1 million in funding, transforming volunteer-run programs into organizations with paid staff. Ken is a devoted husband to Shelby and proud father of four, with a passion for helping mission-driven leaders turn vision into strategy and strategy into impact.Resources MentionedGrant Research Tools:Instrumental – Paid grant search service with faith-based filterFoundation Center Online (Candid) – “The Google of Grants”Available free at many local librariesFree access with Candid Gold Seal profileCandid Profile – Nonprofit database for building credibilityLocal libraries – Often provide free Foundation Center accessResearch Strategies:Follow similar organizations on social media for funding announcementsConnect with community development corporationsEngage city council and mayors for local funding insightsUse Mission Insight or similar tools to identify community needsGrant Categories Mentioned:Afterschool programsFood pantries/food securitySenior adult ministryDaycare and childcareWorkforce developmentArts programsDisability servicesPractical TipsStart with rejection mindset – Expect initial nos and learn from feedbackRead applications carefully – Small details can make or break applicationsBuild relationships first – Contact funders before applying when possibleFocus on community impact – Make applications about outcomes, not your organizationUse funder language – Research and incorporate foundation buzzwordsTrack everything – Maintain detailed financial records for reportingApply persistently – Reapply unless specifically told not toSeek feedback – Ask funders why applications were rejectedConsider separate 501(c)(3) – May help avoid automatic religious exclusionsDiversify funding – Grants should supplement, not replace, traditional givingNext Steps for ChurchesAssess your community outreach – Identify programs that serve beyond your congregationResearch local needs – Use community data to align programs with funder prioritiesStart small – Begin with local foundations and smaller grant amountsBuild organizational capacity – Ensure financial tracking and reporting systemsConsider training – Attend grant writing workshops or hire experienced helpNetwork locally – Connect with other nonprofits and community leadersEstablish online presence – Create clear websites showing community impactConnect with KenEmail: nonprofitmissionary@gmail.comSocial Media: @nonprofitmissionary (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube)Organization: Nonprofit MissionaryIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Show NotesIn this powerful second part of our conversation with Dr. Ioana Popa, we dive into practical solutions for ministry leaders struggling with financial stress and burnout. Dr. Popa shares her holistic framework for preventing burnout while maintaining healthy money boundaries, revealing how unmet emotional needs sabotage financial decisions and why traditional approaches often fail in ministry contexts.Discover the “beach ball effect” of suppressing financial needs, learn why your wallet and calendar are mirrors of your heart, and get actionable steps for creating sustainable daily rhythms that protect both your ministry effectiveness and family relationships. From the “couch analogy” for managing time and resources to establishing “mini vacations” throughout your day, this episode provides the practical framework ministry leaders need to thrive financially and emotionally.00:01:00 – Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast00:02:00 – Financial Mindsets and Practical Solutions00:03:00 – The Brick Illustration and Healthy Financial Boundaries00:04:00 – Understanding the Connection Between Emotional Needs and Financial Health00:06:00 – The Importance of Healthy Money Boundaries00:07:00 – The Beach Ball Analogy: Managing Emotional and Physical Needs00:08:00 – A Holistic Approach to Healthy Money Boundaries for Pastors00:10:00 – Managing Emotions and Mind for Better Financial Decisions00:12:00 – Physical Health and Financial Boundaries00:15:00 – The Couch Analogy: Managing Time and Financial Resources00:17:00 – Creating Intentional Financial and Time Boundaries00:19:00 – Protecting Family Relationships While Setting Healthy Money Boundaries00:23:00 – Regenerating and Avoiding Burnout00:26:00 – Resources and Closing RemarksWhat You’ll LearnHow suppressed needs (whether financial, relational, physical, etc.) create a “beach ball effect” that eventually explodesWhy your wallet and calendar reveal the true condition of your heartThe connection between unmet emotional needs and poor money decisionsHow to apply a holistic body-mind-heart-soul approach to financial wellnessPractical strategies for setting healthy boundaries around time and moneyThe “couch analogy” for understanding resource allocation and transition timesWhy your family is your first ministry and how to protect those relationshipsA simple 4-times-daily rhythm for preventing burnout while maintaining boundariesHow to create intentional “spontaneous giving” budgets that serve others without sacrificing stabilityKey Quotes“When we don’t take care of some needs, they’re really gonna pop up like a beach ball. How long can we hold it under water? It is just gonna pop even more with vengeance.” – Dr. Ioana Popa“Your wallet and your calendar is kind of like a mirror, right? You can see your priorities, you can see where your heart is. Well, if your heart’s in trouble, it’s gonna show up in your finances.” – Joy Suzanne Hunt“Whatever you say yes to, you actually say no to something else. So think of it as a room, like, if I’m gonna bring two more couches in this already crowded room, where am I gonna move around?” – Dr. Ioana Popa“Time is the only non-renewable resource. You can go make more money… But time is all you got. We all get the same amount.” – Joy Suzanne HuntAbout Our GuestDr. Ioana Popa is a national board-certified life and leadership coach, physician, psychiatrist, and spiritual care provider with a Master’s in Theology. As co-founder of Team for the Soul and host of the Thriving in Christ Podcast, Dr. Ioana helps Christian professionals and ministry leaders prevent burnout and build sustainable habits for kingdom work. Her approach uniquely integrates science, psychology, and Christian faith through programs like Renewal in Action and one-on-one coaching.Resources MentionedTeam for the Soul: teamforthesoul.comEmail: connect@teamforthesoul.comThriving in Christ PodcastRenewal in Action program (6-week bootcamp)Growing in Christ curriculum (2-year monthly program)Executive coaching and life/leadership coaching servicesFollow on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn: Dr. Ioana PopaIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Plus, subtle burnout signs leaders should knowShow NotesWhy do ministry leaders struggle with money decisions even when they know biblical principles about stewardship? In this revealing conversation with Dr. Ioana Popa—psychiatrist, life coach, and ministry burnout expert—we uncover the hidden connections between pastoral stress and financial struggles.Dr. Popa explains how ministry leaders often develop twisted stewardship mindsets that create guilt around basic family needs, vacations, and personal investments. From feeling guilty about buying shoes for their kids to avoiding coaching or professional development, these patterns create a “perfect storm” that leads to both financial stress and ministry burnout.Discover the three phases of stress response that ministry leaders experience, why the “hidden burnout” phase is so dangerous, and how unmet emotional needs drive poor money decisions. This episode reveals why traditional financial advice often fails in ministry contexts and sets up the practical solutions we’ll explore in Part 2.About Our GuestDr. Ioana Popa is a national board-certified life and leadership coach, physician, psychiatrist, and spiritual care provider with a Master’s in Theology. As co-founder of Team for the Soul and host of the Thriving in Christ Podcast, Dr. Ioana helps Christian professionals and ministry leaders prevent burnout and build sustainable habits for kingdom work. Her approach uniquely integrates science, psychology, and Christian faith.What You’ll LearnWhy ministry leaders struggle with money despite having biblical knowledge about stewardshipThe psychological “perfect storm” that creates both financial stress and burnoutHow guilt-based money mindsets develop in ministry familiesThe three phases of stress response and why ministry leaders get stuck in phase 2Why treating your body as “the temple of God” includes financial self-careHow unmet emotional needs sabotage financial decision-makingThe connection between Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and ministry money strugglesKey Quotes“What happens for us Christians, we want to give and we have this… we need to be like Christ and keep giving and giving and giving, and there’s something bad if we don’t. So between that as a dilemma… and the other dilemma is that the better we become, the more people are gonna come and are gonna need your help… And it’s gonna feel like the suffering is never ending.” – Dr. Ioana Popa“It’s like a twisted stewardship mindset where we went from ‘we’re taking care of what God has entrusted to us’ to ‘Oh no, we’re going to feel guilty about taking care of normal needs with these funds.'” – Joy Suzanne HuntResources MentionedTeam for the Soul: teamforthesoul.comThriving in Christ PodcastRenewal in Action program for Christian professionals and servant leaders. The in-depth online holistic self-care program that helps you build resilience and on-the-go sustainable high level habits while giving to others in Christ. “Purpose Driven Life” by Rick WarrenNext EpisodeDon’t miss Part 2 where Dr. Popa shares her holistic framework for preventing ministry burnout while maintaining healthy financial boundaries. We’ll explore practical solutions for the body, mind, heart, and soul—plus specific first steps you can take today.Connecting with Dr. Ioana PopaWebsite: teamforthesoul.comInstagram: @teamforthesoulFacebook: @teamforthesoulLinkedIn: Dr. Ioana PopaEmail: connect@teamforthesoul.comConnect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram: @pastorsandmoneyFacebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.comThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God’s mission in our churches and families.If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.com Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Ministry burnout has reached crisis levels, with many pastors leaving the field due to physical, emotional, and spiritual exhaustion. But what if the solution started with something as simple as a 15-minute workout? In this conversation with fitness coach and pastor Steve McKinney, we explore the powerful connection between physical health and ministry effectiveness. Steve shares his practical “Three W” system that’s helping pastors prevent ministry burnout while staying strong, focused, and resilient in their calling – without adding hours to an already packed schedule.This post may contain affiliate links. They don’t cost you a penny, but they help provide a source of income for this site. For more information, please see our disclosures.About Our GuestSteve McKinney is a bestselling author, fitness coach, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, and church pastor who has made it his mission to help people age strong and live healthier lives. As the owner of Fitness and More Incorporated and author of The Gospel of Fitness, Steve brings a rare combination of faith, practical wisdom, and real-world experience to the conversation about pastoral health. He knows firsthand what it's like to carry the weight of ministry — and he's built a simple, sustainable system to help pastors stay in the fight for the long haul.What You'll LearnWhy your physical health is directly connected to your financial health — and what happens to both when you run on emptyHow Steve's three-W system (weight training, walking, and watching your diet) can fit into even the most packed pastoral scheduleWhy just two 15-minute workouts a week can genuinely transform your health — without the time commitment you're dreadingHow physical movement becomes a practical, everyday way to take every thought captive and reset from ministry stressWhy staying healthy isn't just good for you — it's essential for the people you're called to serveKey Quotes"When people are trying to choke you, you're not thinking about people who are mad at you — you're thinking about surviving. Once again, I'm removing those thoughts from my brain.""Treat your workout like a doctor's appointment — because the more you do, the fewer doctor's appointments you'll need.""I'm right in the center of God's will right now. This is what I signed up for.""It's not always about appearance. The attempt is to make sure you stay healthy.""We need you in the game."Practical TakeawaysStart with a walk. If you only do one thing this week, lace up your shoes and take a 30-minute walk. You don't need a plan — just go. Bonus: try walking within 15 minutes of dinner to support digestion and reduce hunger.Try two 15-minute workouts this week. That's it. Slow, controlled movements that protect your joints and train your muscles. Steve's home workout in The Gospel of Fitness is a great place to start.Schedule your workout like a doctor's appointment. Put it on your calendar and protect it. It's not optional — it's part of staying in ministry.Use movement as a mental reset. When ministry stress hits, let physical activity be your pattern interrupt. Walk with your spouse, play with your grandkid, ride a bike — movement is one of the most practical ways to clear your head and come back stronger.Resources in this Episode:ep033 with Steve McKinneyFitnessandmore.netThe Gospel of Fitness by Steve McKinneyAtomic Habits by James ClearJohn Ridge’s “One Minute Pause” – A brief detachment prayer/meditation that says “Jesus, I give everyone and everything to you”Prayer of Agur (from Proverbs 30:8-9) – “Don’t give me so much that I forget you Lord, or so little that I have to steal from you. Just give me what I need.”Connecting with Steve McKinneyWebsite: FitnessAndMore.netInstagram: @stevemckinneyfitnessFacebook: Steve McKinneyIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

In this episode, Steve McKinney, a bestselling author, fitness coach, Brazilian Jiujitsu black belt, and pastor, shares his journey of integrating his passion for fitness with his faith and how it became a gym ministry. He discusses the importance of aging gracefully, maintaining physical health, and how his unique three W approach to fitness can transform lives. Steve also touches on the challenges of maintaining healthy eating habits in ministry and emphasizes the significance of self-care for effective leadership.This post may contain affiliate links. They don’t cost you a penny, but they help provide a source of income for this site. For more information, please see our disclosures.Steve McKinney is a bestselling author, fitness coach, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, and church pastor who has spent decades helping people take care of their bodies so they can show up fully for their lives and their calling. As the owner of Fitness and More Incorporated and author of The Gospel of Fitness, Steve brings a refreshingly whole-person approach to wellness—one that weaves together the physical, mental, and spiritual in a way that makes total sense for ministry leaders. He gets the unique pressures pastors carry, because he lives them too.What You'll LearnWhy caring for your body is an act of stewardship—not selfishness How to recognize the early warning signs that stress is taking a toll on you physically and emotionally Practical strategies for navigating food-centered ministry culture without derailing your health goals Why allowing yourself to grieve, rest, and be human actually makes you a more effective leader How your physical health directly impacts your financial decision-making and ministry clarityKey Quotes"We have to learn to allow ourselves to be human." "Exercise is medicine for my brain. It keeps me sane." "Taking care of yourself isn't selfish. It's stewardship." "If you lose muscle, you can eat the same amount of food and begin to gain body fat—the decline begins around 35 if we're not doing something." "I would tell pastors: 'I'm trying to feel better so I can serve you better.'"Practical TakeawaysPay attention to your body's alarm bells. Notice what stress does to your sleep, focus, and mood—so when it happens, it's informative rather than frightening. Protect at least one regular physical outlet, whether that's walking, lifting, or a fitness class. Consistency matters more than intensity. Be honest with your community about your health goals. A simple "I'm trying to feel better so I can serve you better" goes a long way at potlucks and fellowship dinners. If you're a pastor, find a regular space where you're around people who aren't believers. It keeps your ministry grounded—and your compassion alive.Resources from this Episode:The Gospel of Fitness by Steve McKinney (available on Amazon) Fitness and More Website Part Two of Steve's InterviewConnecting with Steve McKinneyWebsite: fitnessandmore.net Instagram: @fitnessandmoresst Facebook: Steve McKinneyConnecting with Pastors & MoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com Instagram: @PastorsandMoney Facebook: @PastorsandMoney Email: joy@pastorsandmoney.comIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.com Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

In part two of our conversation with fighter pilot and attention coach Wes Woodhouse, we dive into practical ways ministers can create attention-rich environments that foster deep spiritual disciplines in a distracted world. Learn how to lead by example, establish routines that enhance creativity, and build communities that value presence over distraction. Discover why setting boundaries with technology isn’t just good for you—it’s essential for effective ministry in today’s attention-starved world.This post may contain affiliate links. They don’t cost you a penny, but they help provide a source of income for this site. For more information, please see our disclosures.Wes Woodhouse is a husband, father, marathon runner, and fighter pilot on a mission to build up the next generation of leaders for the attention age. In 2020, he founded Vector Atlas, a leadership development and attention cultivation agency, where he leads a mastermind of committed men grounded in wise counsel, accountability, and purposeful living. As an attention performance coach, Wes helps leaders cut through the noise and focus on what matters most—and in this conversation, he brings those same principles straight into the heart of ministry life.What You'll LearnWhy having a macro routine (the big-picture plan) is what actually makes your daily spiritual habits stickHow routines free up mental energy so you can show up more creatively and fully present in your work and relationshipsWhy pastors don't have to be available to everyone all the time—and how setting boundaries actually makes you a better leaderHow to lead your congregation toward deeper focus by modeling it yourself firstWhat Jesus's own rhythms of outreach and retreat can teach us about sustainable ministryKey Quotes"Your attention is a gift. It's a gift you give to your family, to God, and to the people right in front of you." — Joy Suzanne Hunt"You're not gonna be bringing your best to your ministry if you're not recharging your batteries." — Wes Woodhouse"If you have to choose between the church and your family, choose your family. That is the first ministry God gave you." — Joy Suzanne Hunt"A routine is an enabler. You're not thinking about the process—you're just executing it." — Wes Woodhouse"Even Jesus Christ, who is 100% God, needed to step away and recharge." — Wes WoodhousePractical TakeawaysBe honest with your community about what you're working on. You don't have to have it all figured out. Saying "I'm trying to be more present—can you help keep me accountable?" invites others into the journey and creates a safe space for everyone to grow.Design your macro routine first. Before you can nail a daily quiet time, look at the bigger picture: your bedtime, your wake time, your weekly rhythms. When the big routine is solid, the small habits fall into place naturally.Give yourself quit criteria. When something isn't working, don't just push through or give up entirely. Ask yourself ahead of time: what would tell me this isn't working? That clarity gives you permission to adjust without guilt.Put the phone down on purpose. Whether it's dinner, sermon prep, or a meeting—try one intentional phone-free block this week. Let the people around you know it's because they matter more than the notification.Resources:Part one of Focus Like a Fighter PilotWesWoodhouse.comConnecting with Wes WoodhouseWebsite: weswoodhouse.comLinkedIn: Wes Woodhouse (semi-active)If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Wes Woodhouse is a husband, father, marathon runner, and former fighter pilot who now helps the next generation of leaders cut through the noise of a distraction-filled world. As the founder of Vector Atlas, a leadership development and attention coaching agency, Wes brings hard-won lessons from the cockpit into everyday life — helping people focus on what matters most and lead with clarity and purpose.What You'll LearnWhat the "attention gap" is and why it's quietly undermining your effectiveness as a leader and a pastorWhy your prayer life and spiritual focus are suffering from the same root problem as your productivity — and what to do about itHow a simple fighter pilot technique called "chair flying" can help you make better decisions before the pressure hitsWhy building routines and eliminating notifications creates more freedom, not lessHow to break the shame cycle that keeps stealing your focus and your joyKey Quotes"Attention is the current — the actions going on inside the minutes you'll never get back.""Shame seals your attention. It pops up as a persistent distraction that won't go away.""The more specific and detailed your attention is up front, the more focused and useful it becomes in the future.""Aviate, navigate, communicate — first, make sure you're not headed for the ground.""Pray without ceasing — that's just reps of constantly being in prayer."Practical TakeawaysDo a notification audit this week. Go through your phone and turn off every push notification that isn't truly necessary. Wes's challenge: keep only phone calls for at least a week and see how it changes your mental space.Try "chair flying" your tomorrow. Before you go to sleep tonight, mentally walk through your next day — what you'll do, when, and in what order. Pre-decide even small things like breakfast so your brain isn't wasting energy on choices that don't matter.Pre-decide your next move for one recurring struggle. If you keep falling into the same pattern (ordering out, skipping your quiet time, avoiding the budget), get specific: "The next time X happens, I will do Y." Write it down.Build or revisit your morning routine. You don't have to think about your crosscheck — you just do it. The more automatic your routine becomes, the more mental energy you have for what actually needs your attention.Resources from This EpisodeWes Woodhouse & Vector AtlasFull Focus PlannerPart Two of Focus Like a Fighter PilotConnecting with Wes WoodhouseWebsite: weswoodhouse.comTo learn more about Wes's mastermind and coaching work, visit his website.Don't miss Part 2 of this conversation with Wes, coming in two weeks! We'll dive into practical ways pastors and ministry leaders can help their congregations develop better attentionIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Balancing Faith, Finance, and Fulfillment with Sameer SawaqedIn this episode of the Pastors & Money Podcast, we welcome Phyllis, a ministry worker in East Asia, and Sameer Sawaqed, a financial strategist and mentor. Phyllis shares her experiences in equipping young adults for revival missions through prayer and fasting. Sameer discusses his work at Wealth Thrive, focusing on tax strategy and helping entrepreneurs achieve true fulfillment and what it means to be rich beyond money. He emphasizes the importance of faith, purpose, budgeting, and avoiding debt as key factors in achieving financial and spiritual balance. The episode concludes with practical advice for pastors on guiding their congregations in aligning financial goals with God-given purpose.00:00 Introduction to Pastors & Money Podcast00:36 Ministry Spotlight: Phyllis’s Work in East Asia03:51 Introduction to Financial Strategist Sameer Sawaqed07:19 The Concept of Being Rich Beyond Money14:01 Aligning Financial Goals with God-Given Purpose22:57 Understanding the Perspective Shift23:10 The Role of Gratitude in Financial Freedom23:33 Biblical Principles in Financial Management26:17 Practical Financial Advice for Christians27:58 Avoiding Debt and Its Implications29:22 Automating Savings and Giving30:21 Multiple Streams of Income36:19 Balancing Financial Success and Life39:27 Connecting and Learning MoreAbout Our GuestSameer Sawaqed is a financial strategist and mentor who helps entrepreneurs across America become what he calls "rich beyond money" — building lives where peace, purpose, and generosity matter just as much as the bottom line. As a co-leader at Wealth Thrive and Freedom Family Office, and host of the More We Know podcast, Sameer brings a rare combination of high-level financial expertise and genuine faith-rooted wisdom to every conversation. He's the kind of guest who will challenge the way you think about money — and leave you feeling hopeful about what's actually possible.What You'll LearnWhy having more money doesn't automatically bring more peace — and what actually doesHow to define what "enough" looks like for your family based on vision and values, not just numbersThe three pillars of being rich beyond money: peace over pressure, purpose over paycheck, and generosity over accumulationFour practical steps for building wealth that stays aligned with your faith and your callingWhy talking openly about money — at home and in your church — is one of the most powerful things you can do for the people you leadKey Quotes"Money funds your comfort, but only purpose fuels your fulfillment.""When your bank account grows but your soul shrinks, you feel it. God wired us for impact, not just income.""Budget like it's worship. Every dollar you have should reflect your values.""Silence breeds shame. There's nothing wrong with talking about money — at home and in church.""When wealth isn't anchored in the why, it becomes either a distraction or a burden. Purpose gives the money meaning."Practical TakeawaysDo a vision and values exercise with your family. Before making any financial decisions, get clear on where you want to be in three to five years and what values will guide the decisions along the way. Joy uses a simple worksheet with her coaching clients — it changes everything.Budget like it's worship. Treat your budget with the same non-negotiable commitment you bring to your faith. Every spending decision is an opportunity to reflect what matters most to you.Automate your saving and your giving. Don't leave generosity or financial growth up to how you feel on any given day. Set it up so your good intentions become consistent habits.Track your net worth — but don't let it run your emotions. Know your numbers, but measure your real success by how aligned you feel with your purpose, not by daily market fluctuations.Build a team around you. Whether it's an accountant, a financial coach, a therapist, or a trusted mentor — you need people in your corner who help you stay accountable to what matters most.Resources from this Episode:Wealthrive: Wealthrive empowers high-achieving entrepreneurs to leverage a comprehensive wealth plan using tax strategies as a foundation for true abundance, generational wealth, and a life Rich Beyond Money.Freedom Family Office - Sister business to Wealthrive; a team of financial experts that help entrepreneurs achieve more than just financial success. "The More We Know" PodcastFinancial Peace University - Dave Ramsey's financial education courseConnecting with Sameer SawaqedWebsite: wealththrive.comInstagram: @wealththriveLinkedIn: Search Sameer SawaqedPodcast: The More We Know — search on any podcast platform or YouTubeIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

In this episode of the ‘Pastors & Money Podcast,’ we welcome author and ministry leader Heather M. Day. We discuss the intersection of faith and finances, emphasizing the importance of inviting the Holy Spirit into financial decisions. Heather shares her personal journey with money and how a crisis led her to trust God over financial concerns. She also explores the spiritual battle tied to our relationship with money and offers practical advice for church leaders to support their congregations in financial matters. Heather’s book, ‘Money and Spirit,’ provides additional insights on aligning money management with spiritual values.This post may contain affiliate links. They don’t cost you a penny, but they help provide a source of income for this site. For more information, please see our disclosures.00:00 Introduction to Pastors & Money Podcast00:36 Missionary Spotlight: Kristin Jenson04:16 Interview with Heather M. Day04:57 Heather’s Financial Journey and Insights06:24 Spiritual Transformation in Finances08:42 Practical Financial Wisdom12:16 Navigating Financial Struggles with Faith20:41 The Role of the Church in Financial Education29:33 Inviting the Holy Spirit into Financial Life32:11 Conclusion and ResourcesHeather M. Day is an author, ministry leader, and marketing professional with more than 20 years of experience in nonprofit ministry. She serves as the Director of Marketing for Barnabas Foundation, where she supports over 200 Christian ministries — and she brings both professional wisdom and deeply personal experience to the topic of money and faith. Her book, Money and Spirit: Surrendering Our Finances to the Work of the Holy Spirit, grew out of her own journey of learning to trust God with her finances, and it's the kind of resource that meets people right where they are.What You'll LearnWhy financial struggles are almost always a spiritual issue first — and what to do about itHow to recognize when a money decision is pointing to something deeper going on in your heartWhy fear, pride, and guilt quietly drive so many of our financial choices — and how to break free from themWhat it looks like for a church to finally talk about money in a way that brings hope instead of awkwardnessHow to take a first, simple step toward inviting the Holy Spirit into your financial lifeKey Quotes"Our money decisions follow our passions. They follow our fears. They follow our worries. They follow our sources of comfort. They tell on us.""Without the work of the Holy Spirit and a change of our heart, changing our finances just becomes another list — like a New Year's resolution.""I've found that one of the most freeing things is when I finally bring light to the things that are holding me in the darkness.""You don't have to have all the answers to have the opportunity to minister to others.""What would the church look like if we said, 'I told them Jesus loves them back in 1996 — we're good'? We'd never do that. But we do it with money all the time."Practical TakeawaysStart with prayer. Before anything else, invite God into your financial situation. Even a simple, messy prayer — "God, I've made a mess of this. I need your help." — is the right place to start.Look at what your spending reveals. Pull up your bank statement, your Amazon cart, your Apple Pay history. Ask honestly: What do these decisions say about where my trust actually lives?Bring someone else in. Whether it's your spouse, a trusted mentor, or a close friend, take one step toward not doing this alone. Share where you're at. Sharing takes away the shame.Consider starting a small group or class at your church. You don't have to have it all together to lead one. Discussion questions and community are often more powerful than any curriculum.Resources in this EpisodeMoney and Spirit: Surrendering Our Finances to the Work of the Holy Spirit by Heather M. DayBarnabas Foundation - Helping Christians give more effectively to ministriesChi Alpha Campus MinistriesFinancial Peace University - Financial stewardship and education program for churchesCrown Ministries - Financial stewardship and education program for churchesHeatherday.net - Heather Day's blog and website where she shares resources on faith and leadershipConnecting with Heather DayWebsite & Blog: heatherday.netBarnabas Foundation: barnabasfoundation.orgIf you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.Connect with Pastors & MoneyEmail: joy@pastorsandmoney.comInstagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoneyWebsite: pastorsandmoney.com/podcastThe Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney