Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing the scale of what has quietly become one of the fastest-growing corners of the credit market. In roughly 18 months, high yield and unrated AI infrastructure issuers have raised more than $107 billion, and the top seven players alone may need another $400 billion to $450 billion over the next four years to hit their stated capacity targets. She then hands off to Seth Brumby, Deputy Managing Editor at Octus, who sits down with Anton Gorbounov Senior Credit Analyst on the Octus credit research team.Brumby and Gorbunov walk through what a data center actually is and why the industry splits into powered shells and neoclouds (03:26), the backstories of the operators, from former crypto miners to an "Airbnb for chips" (08:56). They pressure test the macro and micro risks, including contract economics, counterparty exposure and GPU residual value (11:02), before turning to the widening gap between how equity and credit markets are pricing the same names (15:46). The conversation closes on what to watch next, including the Anthropic and OpenAI S-1s (18:08).A credit-first read on the sector everyone is watching and few fully understand.----more----Hosted by Julie MiecampGuest Interviewer: Seth Brumby, Deputy Managing Editor OctusGuest: Anton Gorbounov, Senior Credit Analyst, OctusProduced and Edited by Tanya HubbardA Production of The Octus Podcast Network

Associate Editor Armie Lee sits down with Tyler Gately, Head of North America Private Credit at Barings, for a candid read on the state of direct lending in 2026. Recorded as Q1 was wrapping up, the conversation cuts through the noise. Tyler opens with a reality check on the private credit headlines (00:00:36), then walks through what is actually driving volume, why add-on activity is accounting for 60 to 70 percent of dollars going out the door (00:01:13), and the fastest market repricing since COVID, with spreads gapping out 50 to 100 basis points as the retail BDC dollar pulls back (00:03:02). He covers the Q2 pipeline and the long-predicted M&A bounce-back question (00:04:45), and explains what this dislocation means for institutional platforms that deploy their own capital (00:08:18). The second half digs into AI and software risk in private credit, why Tyler thinks the macro fear is overblown (00:10:13), and the new questions Barings is asking software borrowers today (00:12:55). He breaks down the Barings platform and how it has reconstructed the banking landscape for sponsors (00:16:27), the tale of two markets between retail and institutional LPs (00:18:01), and what actually separates a platform worth committing to from one that just looks good on paper (00:21:12). The conversation closes with Tyler's 2026 outlook (00:24:49), what starting his career in the 2008 financial crisis taught him about discipline (00:28:08), and a rapid fire round on mindset shifts, market trends, and what young credit professionals still get wrong (00:32:48). ----more---- Hosted by Armie Lee Guest: Tyler Gately (Head of North America Private Credit, Barings) Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:00) - Armie Lee open’s the episode (01:21) - Tyler Gately Joins the show (03:02) - The fastest repricing since COVID (08:18) - What the BDC retail pullback means for institutional platforms (10:13) - AI and software: why the macro fear is overblown (16:27) - Inside the Barings platform and the full-stack sponsor solution (21:12) - What separates a real platform from one that looks good on paper (28:08) - Starting a career in the 2008 financial crisis

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode (00:00) by framing the growing legal scrutiny around creditor cooperation agreements and why two recent antitrust lawsuits have put common restructuring tools under a brighter spotlight. As liability management transactions become more aggressive and creditor groups organize earlier in the process, Julie explains why the line between coordination and collusion now matters more than ever. She then introduces Kevin Eckhardt, Senior Director of Legal Analysis at Octus, who leads a detailed conversation with Doug Mintz, Co-Chair of the Financial Restructuring Group at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP, and Brian Wallach, Co-Chair of the firm’s Antitrust Practice. The discussion begins with a practical breakdown of what creditor cooperation agreements are and how they evolved post-2020 (03:40), before turning to the Optimum lawsuit and the borrower’s claim that a creditor group functioned as a “market-blocking cartel” (07:10). From there, the conversation explores the legal theories at play, including per se versus rule-of-reason antitrust analysis (10:05), the challenges of defining the relevant market (14:20), and what discovery could mean if these cases survive early motions to dismiss (18:45). The episode then shifts to the Selecta litigation (26:10), examining creditor-on-creditor conflict and how courts may distinguish between competitive harm and ordinary restructuring behavior. The group closes by considering how these cases could reshape documentation, coordination strategy, and lender risk management going forward (34:30), offering a grounded look at how legal pressure may influence the next phase of private credit. (00:00) - Julie Miecamp Opens – Why Creditor Coordination Is Under Legal Scrutiny (01:05) - Episode Context & Motion to Dismiss Note (02:00) - What Is a Creditor Cooperation Agreement? (05:00) - Post-2020 LMEs and the Rise of Modern Co-Ops (07:00) - The Optimum Lawsuit – “Market-Blocking Cartel” Allegations (10:00) - Per Se vs. Rule of Reason – Breaking Down the Antitrust Framework (14:30) - Defining the Relevant Market – LevFin vs. Company-Specific Debt (18:30) - Motions to Dismiss, Discovery, and What Happens Next (23:30) - Kirkland Conflict Fallout – What It Signals (26:30) - The Selecta Case – Creditor-on-Creditor Warfare (30:00) - Competition vs. Competitors – Key Antitrust Distinction (33:30) - Bankruptcy Court vs. District Court Analysis (36:00) - Market Implications for Creditor Coordination (41:00) - Settlement Risk and Broader Precedent Concerns (44:00) - Culture Close – The Replacements, Alt Rock & Career Self-Sabotage (47:00) - Final Reflections with Doug & Brian (48:00) - Julie’s Closing Remarks

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing a European private credit market bracing for a software reset, a refinancing wall building toward 2028, and a higher-for-longer rate environment that's quietly rewritten the playbook. The real risk, she notes, isn't the one everyone's arguing about. She then hands off to Lucia Camblor, Deputy Head of Private Credit and Deal Origination at Octus, in conversation with Mathew Cestar, President at Arini.Two decades into building leverage finance at Credit Suisse and advising ICG's leadership, Cestar walks through why Arini exited software lending 18 to 24 months ago, well ahead of the reset now forcing the industry to explain itself (04:19), why the nearer-term threat to tech-heavy portfolios is cost of capital rather than AI disruption (08:49), and why years of pent-up restructuring in private markets are still working their way through the system (14:43). He pushes back on the assumption that scale equals safety in large-cap direct lending (17:10), makes the case for pan-European diversification over single-country concentration (19:04), and closes with why sponsorless lending, ABF, real estate credit, and infrastructure are the next legs of European debanking (27:04).A conversation with a practitioner who has spent the full cycle inside European credit and isn't interested in the panel version of the story.Closing Credits----more----Hosted by Julie Miecamp.Guest Interviewer: Lucia Camblor, Deputy Head of Private Credit and Deal Origination, EMEA, Octus.Guest: Mathew Cestar, President, Arini.Produced by Tanya Hubbard.A Production of The Octus Podcast Network (00:00) - Introduction from Julie Miecamp (02:33) - Lucia Camblor introduces Mathew Cestar (03:08) - The state of European private credit after the GFC (04:19) - Software concentration, the SaaS reset, and why Arini exited early (08:49) - Rate environment, refinancing wall, and the energy overhang (14:43) - Default rates, the public-private feedback loop, and pent-up stress (17:10) - Where the risk sits: lenders versus sponsors (19:04) - LP rebalancing away from US concentration into Europe (23:17) - Banks versus private credit as a symbiotic ecosystem (24:44) - Sponsorless lending and the Lazard partnership (27:04) - Capital rotation into infrastructure and the debanking theme (30:33) - Secondaries, continuation funds, and market maturation (32:06) - Rapid-fire and wrap

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing a CLO market that has changed almost beyond recognition: past $1 trillion in size, more than 160 managers issuing in the US alone, and the economics of CLO equity shifting under everyone's feet (00:06). She then hands off to Sid Punjabi, CLO Reporter at Octus, who caught Vince Pompliano, Managing Director and Co-Head of the US CLO Platform at Benefit Street Partners, at a real milestone: BSP just priced its 50th new issue CLO (02:19). Vince opens with the big picture, arguing the number one lesson of the past decade is that the structure works, with the waterfall, OC tests, and portfolio quality tests doing exactly what they were built to do (02:53). He pushes back on the negative headlines around Iran and the AI software scare, pointing to positive GDP growth, contained inflation, and borrowers still growing revenue and EBITDA (04:03), and lays out his base case for sustained gross issuance into 2026, helped by refis, resets, and short dated paper giving every investor an entry point (05:48). With the field this crowded, Vince argues return dispersion between managers is only going to widen, which makes the name on the deal matter more, not less (06:58), and walks through BSP's philosophy of building lower risk, more conservative portfolios that still deliver median or better equity distributions (07:45). He reflects on CLO 50 and the platform's growth from roughly $5 billion in AUM when he joined in 2014 to more than $30 billion globally today (08:41), before getting into consolidation, why access to capital and performance will separate the winners, and what actually earns a platform tier one status (13:43). The conversation then goes global: Japan's deepening bid and the rise of regional bank capital (17:51), how Korea, Hong Kong, and Singapore differ in risk appetite down the stack (19:18), and the untapped mezzanine and equity capital sitting in the Middle East (20:33). Vince gets philosophical on dislocation, explaining why diversification has to be built before volatility shows up, why BSP caps positions at 30 to 50 basis points, and why some of the best CLOs ever done were created in the worst moments (25:05). On the captive equity debate, he resets day one arb expectations around the familiar 12 to 15 percent target and makes the case that captive funds and ETFs are net positives for the market over time (33:21). He closes on reinvestment optionality as the critical driver of equity value (39:25), the role of CLO equity as a cash flowing complement to private equity in a portfolio (41:47), and the career lessons from his trading days, starting with the fact that this is still a relationship business (44:31). In the rapid fire, Sid gets the one misconception Vince would happily kill off, and the answer is three words: we are not CDOs (45:20).----more----  Hosted by Julie Miecamp Guest Interviewer: Sid Punjabi, CLO Reporter, Octus. Guest: Vince Pompliano, Managing Director and Co-Head of US CLO Business, Benefit Street Partners. Produced and Final Edited by Tanya Hubbard A Production of The Octus Podcast Network----more----Chapter 00:00:00 Introduction from Julie Miecamp 00:02:19 Sid Punjabi introduces Vince Pompliano 00:02:53 State of the CLO market and why the structure works 00:04:53 Loan market health and 2026 issuance outlook 00:07:53 BSP portfolio philosophy and lower risk construction 00:13:56 Manager differentiation and coming consolidation 00:17:39 Global investor base: Japan, Asia, Middle East 00:24:43 Playing offense during dislocation 00:32:47 CLO equity, captive funds, and resetting arb expectations 00:41:36 The role of CLO equity in a portfolio today 00:44:16 Career lessons and rapid-fire wrap Closing CreditsFROM BSP - Important Disclosure: This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any security or investment product or to adopt any investment strategy. The views and opinions expressed are those of the speakers as of the recording date and are subject to change without notice. Statements regarding market conditions, industry trends, portfolio characteristics, expected returns, economic conditions or future events are forward-looking statements based on current assumptions and expectations and are not guarantees of future results. Any references to specific asset classes, investment strategies, securities or transactions are provided for illustrative purposes only and should not be construed as investment recommendations. References to Benefit Street Partners' investment process, portfolio construction, or risk management reflect the team's current approach, which may change over time and may not be successful in all market environments. There can be no assurance that any investment objectives, return expectations, or risk management strategies discussed will be achieved. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investments involve risk, including the possible loss of principal.