Life After Ministry

Some churches find their bylaws only after a pastor announces a departure. Then they discover the documents haven’t been reviewed in decades.Sheila Bennett would rather help a board ask those questions earlier. With more than twenty years in church finance and operations, she sees governance as part of caring for the people doing ministry.Sheila joins us to discuss why churches need structures that serve the organization beyond its current leader. We talk about choosing board members for more than proximity, understanding a congregation’s relationships, and making sure someone owns the work happening behind the scenes.There’s also an honest exchange about why pastors avoid this material. We would prefer Leviticus to business paperwork. Sheila explains why she finds purpose in the details we’d gladly hand to someone else.Key TakeawaysReview governing documents before a crisis or leadership change makes the questions urgent.Build structures that can serve the church beyond a beloved pastor or founding team.Choose board members for character and useful perspectives, rather than familiarity alone.Church operations require an understanding of relationships as well as practical skills.Give capable people responsibility for the work behind the scenes so pastors aren’t carrying every concern.Chapter Markers00:00 – The work that helps a church outlast its leader05:43 – How Sheila found her calling in church operations10:52 – Why church business takes more than business skills19:42 – Bylaws, board selection, and practical oversight28:20 – Staying hopeful and helping churches get organizedResourcesExplore Sheila’s coauthored book, Church, Inc.: Systematic Surgery for Modern Ministry.Check out Sheila’s ministry at ministrymanager.orgPreparing for a leadership change? Start a confidential conversation at ministrytransitions.com.

Who gets to lead when the founder is still in the room? For David and Jonathan Shibley, that question came with another relationship to protect: father and son.On Life After Ministry, I talk with them about the succession at Global Advance and the choices that helped it work.Jonathan served for ten years before becoming president, giving the board time to observe him and ministry partners time to know him. David continued serving while publicly supporting Jonathan's leadership.We also discuss the pressure of comparison, the weight of becoming responsible for other people's livelihoods, and what their wives experienced along the way.For a board preparing its own leadership handoff, this conversation gives an honest look at the preparation and personal care that a healthy succession requires.Key TakeawaysGive the board time to assess readiness. Jonathan's last name came with expectations. Years of service gave the board an opportunity to observe his work before appointing him president.Prepare people for the relationship as well as the announcement. Staff and ministry partners had opportunities to see David and Jonathan work together before the presidency changed hands.Give the successor room to lead differently. David affirmed Jonathan publicly and kept their disagreements between them, helping people understand whose leadership to follow.Ask what the family will carry. Travel demands and conversations at home affected their wives differently. Each family needed room to name what worked for them.Plan for meaningful life after the role. The board and Jonathan addressed David and Naomi's financial future, and David continued serving through writing and other ministry work.Chapter Markers00:00 A father-son succession worth learning from01:21 How the possibility of succession began06:22 Serving without a promised title08:38 The three envelopes story11:13 Preparing stakeholders and releasing authority16:31 Giving a successor opportunities to learn19:08 Following a father everyone knows21:06 The weight of becoming president27:07 Holding a ministry and an identity with humility31:17 What their wives and families carried36:10 When the founder remains involved38:56 Meaningful ministry after the presidency44:07 The work of Global AdvanceGlobal Advance:https://globaladvance.org/Global Advance podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/global-advance-podcasts/id6445826567Ministry Transitions:https://ministrytransitions.com/Music licensed through Soundstripe.Code: VYIFKMHAUOEXDSYY, 7CAPUD6JEYLZ3YBI

The church has a plan for who’s preaching next Sunday. Who’s checking on the pastor’s family on Monday?For episode 100, our team at Ministry Transitions - Bill Tom, Matt Davis, Noe Rivera, and Ron Henry - talk about what has surprised us, what still breaks our hearts, and why we keep hearing, “I wish we’d found you sooner.”Today, we get to talk with people who are asking “What now?” and “What’s next?” We also help the boards and leaders making hard decisions that will affect a family long after the announcement is over.We talk about caring for spouses and kids, the humility to ask for help, and the moments when somebody begins to see a future again. After 100 episodes, we believe more strongly than ever that the church should know how to say goodbye without destroying people.Key TakeawaysA leader’s transition affects their spouse, children, and the wider community. Care for the family needs to be part of the plan.Boards need clear responsibilities and preparation before a difficult decision puts those gaps on display.Humility and coachability give leaders room to receive help and consider what comes next.Losing a ministry role can shake your identity. Relationships, meaningful work, and simple moments of joy can help you see beyond that loss.Old wounds deserve care, too. You can ask for help even when the transition happened years ago.Chapter Markers00:00 – The hole jumper and why we started10:34 – What surprised us about this work22:34 – Humility, hope, and life beyond a role30:08 – What boards and families need during transition43:34 – Hard goodbyes, old wounds, and a way forwardResourcesFacing a transition or helping someone through one? Visit ministrytransitions.com to start a confidential conversation.To help provide care for a ministry leader who can’t afford it or lacks support, visit the website to make a donation.Music licensed through Soundstripe.Code: 2X6MMWEBTOGAQHGO, 3QGZO2HS60LMBN9B

Why is it so hard to let go of a ministry you love before something forces the decision? Robin Fuller knows firsthand. After more than 23 years in pregnancy center ministry, she burned out and heard that only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well.She decided to be part of that 10 percent. Robin lifted the mantle off her shoulders in front of her board and walked through a four-year succession plan that started with a simple "Things I Do" document.Matt and Robin talk about why founders struggle most, how a poverty mindset keeps leaders in the seat too long, and why outgoing leaders need to step away for at least six months. Robin also shares her new book, Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love.Key Takeaways1. Succession starts long before you leave. Robin spent four years working with her board so the ministry could continue without a blip.2. Write down what you actually do. A simple "Things I Do" list shows what to release, what to delegate, and what the next leader will need.3. Know what will be missing when you are gone. Robin knew finances were not her gift, so she looked for a successor who was strong where she was not.4. Pay and plan for your people. Fair pay and retirement planning keep leaders from staying too long just because they cannot afford to leave.5. Give your successor room. Robin now encourages every outgoing leader to stay away for at least six months and to hand pride back to the Lord.Chapter Markers00:00 - Why Letting Go Is So HardRobin's story, burnout, and why only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well.06:58 - The "Things I Do" DocumentThe simple list that showed Robin what to release and how to restructure her role.12:10 - Why Leaders Stay Too LongFounders, the poverty mindset, and building a healthy compensation philosophy.20:19 - Stepping Away WellThe six-month rule, keeping staff through the handoff, and wrestling with pride.27:30 - Finish Well: The BookTwelve practical steps for ministry leaders and boards, plus Robin's masterminds.ResourcesIf you are navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation.Get Robin Fuller's book Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love and learn about her coaching and succession planning mastermind groups at robinfuller.coach. The book is also available on Amazon.Connect with Robin on Facebook and LinkedIn.Music licensed through Soundstripe.Code: XR91I6DXHFKRNMGI, UJMZ6VRYI26GYGRX

Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one.That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland.Cancer later clarified the shift. Anthony sold his company, entered seminary, and now coaches Christian entrepreneurs through Convene.In this conversation he shares frameworks for pausing and pivoting, caring for people as image-bearers, and looking for God's providence in disruption.6. KEY TAKEAWAYS1. A gift and a legacy aren't the same thing. Anthony's trajectory changed when he began thinking about what his family could build together for God rather than simply what he could someday leave behind.2. God can use disruption to clarify calling. Anthony describes cancer as brutal, but also as a season that brought unusual clarity about where his life needed to go next.3. You cannot pivot well if you never pause. Healthy leaders and organizations stop long enough to evaluate what is happening before they change direction.4. People are not resources. Christian leadership should see people as individuals made in the image of God, not simply inputs for organizational productivity.5. Providence may be the most important P. In business, ministry, transition, and suffering, Anthony keeps returning to one question: Where is God's providence in all that we do?7. CHAPTER MARKERS00:00 - Welcome Anthony BartonMatt introduces Anthony and begins with the major turning point in 2013.00:47 - Gift or Legacy?A trust attorney asks Anthony a question that changes how he thinks about what he will leave his family.07:59 - The Next Disruption: CancerA cancer diagnosis reshapes Anthony's understanding of life, calling, and what he wants to build.13:15 - Protect, Pause, and PivotAnthony shares leadership priorities beyond profit and productivity, including pause and pivot.23:17 - The Eight F's DiagnosticAnthony introduces a simple framework for understanding the people you lead beyond what they produce.8. RESOURCESIf you’re navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation.To learn more about Anthony Barton and his work with Christian business leaders, visit Anthony Barton at Convene.You can also explore Convene.Resources:Ministry TransitionsAnthony Barton at ConveneConvene