Life After Ministry

Leadership transitions often expose something many leaders spend years trying to hide: the fear that they are not enough for the role they carry.  Whether it is a pastor navigating succession, a nonprofit executive facing organizational change, or a CEO realizing old leadership methods no longer work, the pressure to appear confident and certain can quietly isolate leaders from the people they serve.  In this conversation, Jim Brown shares why healthy leadership begins when leaders stop trying to be the hero of the organization and start building collaborative cultures where people feel valued, empowered, and trusted. Together, we explore the emotional realities underneath leadership transitions, difficult staffing decisions, and organizational change.  They discuss why so many leaders stay too long, how fear often disguises itself as faithfulness, and why humility and vulnerability are becoming essential leadership qualities in today’s world.  The conversation offers practical wisdom for ministry leaders who want to navigate transition seasons with greater clarity, courage, and care. Key Takeaways Healthy leadership creates space for others to contribute instead of positioning the leader as the hero. Vulnerability from leaders gives teams permission to be honest, collaborative, and engaged. Most organizational problems are people and culture problems before they become strategy problems. Transition conversations are rarely perfect, but avoiding them often causes greater harm. Fear keeps many leaders in roles long after their season has changed. Chapter Markers 00:00 Welcome and introducing Jim Brown 01:40 Why leadership perfection is impossible 04:00 How leadership expectations have changed 06:50 Why today’s leaders need humility and flexibility 08:30 Building collaborative cultures that empower people 12:30 Vulnerability, mistakes, and healthier leadership 13:40 The framework behind The Imperfect CEO 19:30 Helping leaders overcome imposter syndrome 20:50 Why transitions are never perfectly executed 24:00 Difficult staffing conversations and leadership courage 26:40 Why some ministry leaders stay too long 28:00 Resources for churches and healthy leadership Resources & Links Start a conversation with the Ministry Transitions team: https://ministrytransitions.com Explore free leadership transition resources: https://ministrytransitions.com/resources The Imperfect CEO – Jim Brown’s upcoming book releasing May 19: Order your copy immediately at https://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/1637749023 For the best deals, order bulk at https://imperfectceobook.com/ Connect with Jim Brown: LinkedIn: @authorjimbrown Instagram: @orghealthteam Facebook: OrgHealth

What happens when trust breaks inside a church, nonprofit, or leadership team?Dr. Rob McKenna explains why trust is more than a feeling, how leaders can rebuild it after failure, and why succession is really the transfer of trust.This conversation explores emotional maturity, candor, vulnerability, blind spots, competence, reliability, and the three questions every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?Key TakeawaysTrust has identifiable drivers, including candor, competence, reliability, emotional maturity, and concern for others.Nearly half of employees experience their workplace as a “jungle of trust.”Competence matters, but competence alone does not make someone a trusted leader.Rebuilding trust requires responsibility, self-awareness, grace, and continual repair.Succession is more than transferring a role; it is transferring trust into a team and organizational culture.Leaders must create conditions where people can tell the truth and receive difficult feedback.Every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?Chapter Markers00:00 – Succession as the transfer of trust01:23 – Introducing Dr. Rob McKenna02:15 – Why trust is difficult in ministry and nonprofit organizations06:04 – The State of Trust at Work08:34 – Signs that trust is missing10:25 – Why competence alone is not enough14:19 – What it means to be a whole leader18:00 – Handling difficult conversations during transition20:00 – Succession and the transfer of trust24:51 – How leaders rebuild trust after failure28:34 – Blind spots and meaningful change32:44 – What individuals can do in a jungle of trust35:57 – How organizations can begin rebuilding trust39:00 – Closing thoughts and resourcesVisit MinistryTransitions.com if a leadership transition is exposing cracks in trust. To learn more about Dr. Rob McKenna’s work, Whole Leaders, Wild Trust, and WiLD Leaders’ tools, visit wildleaders.org.

Most ministry leaders expect to decide when they step away. Dennis Atwood never had that opportunity.After serving churches for nearly three decades, Dennis was diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson's disease. He quietly carried the diagnosis for years before the progression of the disease forced him to step away from the pastorate he loved. In this deeply honest conversation, Dennis reflects on grief, identity, suffering, and why choosing gratitude isn't about denying pain but discovering God's faithfulness in the middle of it.Key TakeawaysUnexpected health challenges can reshape both ministry and identity.Grief is a natural part of leaving a calling you deeply love.Gratitude isn't the absence of suffering but a response to God's faithfulness within it.Ministry leaders need purpose beyond the title they hold.God often brings deep spiritual formation through seasons we would never choose.Chapter Markers00:00 Dennis' pastoral journey and ministry background01:45 An early Parkinson's diagnosis changes everything03:30 Why Dennis kept his diagnosis private for years07:45 Telling the church and preparing for transition11:00 Missing ministry more than expected13:15 Becoming a caregiver and navigating family transition14:30 Holy discontent and living with purpose16:20 Choosing gratitude through suffering20:00 The dark night of the soul and spiritual formation25:30 Encouragement for leaders whose ministry ended unexpectedlyIf you're facing a ministry transition or unexpected life change, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Dennis and his book Choosing Gratitude at Market Square Books.

Missionaries spend years preparing to go to the field, but few are prepared for what it feels like to come home.After serving six years in Germany, Nate and Brittany Bruns share the unexpected challenges of returning to the United States, navigating reverse culture shock, raising third-culture kids, and rebuilding community.Ultimately, they discovered God was calling them to live as missionaries in their own country. Their story offers practical encouragement for missionaries, churches, and anyone walking through an unexpected ministry transition.Key TakeawaysReverse culture shock can be more difficult than moving overseas.Missionary transitions affect spouses, children, and the entire family.God often prepares leaders for future seasons long before they understand why.Returning missionaries bring valuable wisdom that can strengthen the local church.Waiting on God is an active posture of trust, not passive inactivity.Chapter Markers00:00 Job loss, the desert season, and God's unexpected call to Germany04:30 Reaching a post-Christian culture through relationships07:15 When God said it was time to come home11:15 Reverse culture shock and becoming strangers in your own country16:00 Helping third-culture kids navigate transition20:15 How churches can better care for returning missionaries23:30 What America can learn from post-Christian Europe26:45 Financial transitions and rebuilding support30:00 Waiting on God and discerning what's next34:00 The Bruns Tribe and engaging the spiritually disengaged36:30 Encouragement for missionaries in transitionIf you're navigating a ministry transition, we'd love to help. Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Nate and Brittany's ministry at The Bruns Tribe.

Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity. In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral ministry, processing the loss of a role he loved, recovering from work addiction, and discovering a new calling shepherding high-capacity leaders.  Along the way, he offers wisdom about identity, friendship, reconciliation, and trusting God when the future feels uncertain. Key Takeaways Ministry transitions often bring grief and relief at the same time. Work addiction can quietly shape a leader's identity and relationships. Healthy transitions begin with embracing who you are apart from your role. Every leader needs authentic friendships, not just professional relationships. The gospel calls us to love across differences, especially when it's difficult. Chapter Markers 00:00 Scott's ministry journey and pastoral background 02:20 An unexpected transition from pastoral ministry 05:00 Grief, relief, and leaving a church you love 07:00 Confronting work addiction through recovery 09:30 Is Scott still a pastor? 11:00 The birth of the Sycamore Community 16:30 Shepherding leaders outside the local church 18:30 The impact of ministry transitions on spouses and families 21:00 Loving across the lines of difference 27:00 The Mercy King and God's relentless love If you're navigating a ministry transition, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Scott's work at Scott Sauls.