Second Wind by AKA

By almost every measure advertising has for keeping score, Aaron Starkman and Rethink are on top of the world.As Global Chief Creative Officer & Partner at Rethink, Aaron has helped build one of the most acclaimed independent agencies in advertising, behind famous work for Heinz, IKEA, Coors and more.Rethink has been named Independent Agency of the Year at nearly every major international award show, including Cannes Lions, The One Show, The Clios, London International Awards and The ANDYs.In 2024, Rethink was named Cannes Lions Independent Agency and Network of the Year, and holds the #1 spot on WARC’s Global Independent Agency ranking and The Drum World Creative Rankings.So about 45 minutes into this conversation, Kerrie asks Aaron a fascinating question:Has all that success finally satisfied his need for validation?His answer goes all the way back to the beginning of his career.“I was fired three times as a junior and it f*cked with me.”Aaron talks candidly about getting fired early in his career, the anxiety it created, and how the fear of it happening again became fuel. He opens up about therapy, medication, losing his mother, and the extraordinary dream after she died that finally pushed him to deal with what was taking up so much space in his head.But this is also a fascinating look inside how Rethink consistently makes great creative work.Aaron breaks down CRAFTS and Go Then Grow, why constraints make creativity better, how Rethink beta-tests creative ideas in the real world, why they don’t use the word “client,” and the Relationship Accelerator they use to build trust between agencies and brands.We also get into AI and the future of advertising.While much of the industry is focused on using AI to make advertising faster and cheaper, Rethink is going the other way: doubling down on human creativity and working toward having 50% of the company made up of creatives.Aaron’s take:“Average feels like AI.”A remarkably candid conversation about creativity, ambition, anxiety, advertising, AI, leadership, client relationships, mental health — and what happens when achieving everything you thought you wanted doesn’t necessarily make the noise disappear.Aaron Starkman is Global Chief Creative Officer & Partner at Rethink.Second Wind is hosted by Kerrie Finch, Jake Neske, and Gully Flowers, and made by AKA.

Nico Poalillo spent years being told he needed to pick one thing.Director. Producer. Photographer. Creative. Experiential.Instead, he kept doing all of it.Now he’s bringing that multidisciplinary career to General Motors, joining GM as Director of Global Design Visualization and Environments.On this episode of Second Wind, Nico joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about the unlikely path from growing up in Southern California to moving to Detroit, living in a $150-a-month closet, shooting bands, working across agencies and production, directing for brands including Cadillac, Acura, Apple and Nike, and helping create live experiences for artists including Bad Bunny and Bad Omens.He also opens up about the cancer diagnosis that forced him to reassess his relationship with work, why it ultimately changed the way he leads, and what returning to Detroit to join one of the world’s most storied automotive design organizations means to him.We get into:• Why young creatives shouldn’t be afraid to do more than one thing• How Detroit shaped Nico’s career and creative philosophy• The rise of multidisciplinary creative careers• Why experiential and IRL experiences are having a moment• Building cultural experiences with Bad Bunny and Bad Omens• What cancer taught him about ambition, work and leadership• Why creatives are increasingly moving upstream inside brands• The opportunity — and responsibility — of joining General Motors• How Nico thinks about GM’s century of design heritage• Why the next generation of creatives should build their own “creative ecosystem”Nico’s advice is simple: go make the other thing.Shoot something. Design something. Make the zine. Take the photos. Help your friend’s band.The things that don’t fit neatly into your job title might eventually become the reason someone hires you.Second Wind is a podcast about what happens next in creative careers, advertising, design, production, marketing and culture.Hosted by Gully Flowers, Kerrie Finch and Jake Neske.

Consumer psychologist and Thinkerbell founder Adam Ferrier thinks advertising has a bigger problem than AI: the industry is still too focused on making ads.In this episode of Second Wind, Adam joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to unpack what advertising and marketing look like when you start with human behavior rather than the 30-second script.Adam explains why the traditional creative model is breaking down, why advertising creatives need a better understanding of how people actually make decisions, and why some of the biggest creative opportunities are hiding in places the industry routinely ignores.We also get into artificial intelligence and creativity: Adam’s idea of AI as “System 3,” the difference between cognitive offloading and cognitive surrender, and why he believes AI should enhance human creativity rather than simply make agencies more efficient.Adam Ferrier is a consumer psychologist, author and founder of Thinkerbell. Before Thinkerbell, he co-founded Naked Communications in Australia and worked at Saatchi & Saatchi. His career spans behavioral science, brand strategy, creativity and advertising effectiveness.In this episode:* Why advertising needs to think beyond ads* AI, creativity and the rise of “System 3”* System 1, System 2 and how AI changes human thinking* Cognitive offloading vs. cognitive surrender* Brand building, future demand and category entry points* Why the 30-second script still dominates advertising* What’s wrong with the traditional copywriter/art director model* Why creative people need to understand behavioral science* How AI is changing advertising production* Why email, CRM and customer experience are overlooked creative opportunities* Creativity, craft and the future of advertising agenciesAbout Adam FerrierAdam Ferrier is the founder and Chief Thinker at Thinkerbell and one of Australia’s best-known consumer psychologists. He is the author of The Advertising Effect and Stop Listening to the Customer, and has worked across behavioral psychology, brand strategy and creativity.Second Wind is a podcast about what happens next in advertising, creativity, marketing and the people reshaping the industry.Subscribe for more conversations with the people changing advertising and creativity.

Pancho Cassis is Global CCO and Partner at DAVID and one of the creative leaders behind Burger King’s Moldy Whopper, Stevenage Challenge and some of the most awarded advertising of the last decade.His starting point for every brief is brutally simple: people will do anything to avoid advertising.On this episode of Second Wind, Pancho joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about what it takes to make work people actually want to see — and why spending $50 million doesn’t mean anyone will care.We get into what he learned judging the Cannes Lions Titanium category; why famous campaigns have an advantage at award shows; what makes an idea travel across countries and cultures; and whether the advertising industry has simply created too many awards.Pancho also explains why he doesn’t believe creative culture can be built entirely on Zoom, how DAVID gives junior creatives the chance to shape big ideas, and the lesson his father taught him about persuading clients to buy work that scares them: patience.Plus, we break down DAVID’s Clash of Clans work with Erling Haaland and Pancho’s philosophy of “milking the stone” — don’t stop when you’ve found a good idea; keep pushing until you’ve extracted everything from it.Pancho Cassis has won 192 Cannes Lions, including eight Grand Prix and three Titanium Lions, as well as a D&AD Black Pencil and dozens of Effies. His work spans Burger King, Supercell, Coca-Cola, Magnum and some of the most recognized creative campaigns in the world.Second Wind is a podcast about the people, ideas and forces shaping advertising, creativity and marketing.

Cannes Lions has spent decades defining what great creativity looks like. Effie has done the same for effectiveness.Paul Kemp-Robertson sits inside both.As Chief Content Officer of LIONS, Paul has a rare vantage point on the forces shaping the global advertising industry. LIONS brings together Cannes Lions, Effie, WARC and Contagious — institutions that influence what gets celebrated, what gets studied, what gets put on stage and, ultimately, what the industry believes great work looks like.Paul has also watched the industry change from almost every angle. He started at Shots in the early 1990s, when the world’s best advertising arrived on VHS tapes and call-for-entries went out by fax. He went on to Leo Burnett and co-founded Contagious before becoming Chief Content Officer at LIONS.So we wanted to ask him a bigger question:What wins now?Because advertising is at another strange inflection point.AI has made the tools of creativity available to almost everyone. ChatGPT, Claude and the other major AI platforms are rapidly changing how people search, work, make things and consume media. Yet some of the companies building that future are now turning to advertising agencies, brand-building and very human creative work to differentiate themselves.Paul thinks that’s telling.We get into Mother’s work for Claude and its attack on ChatGPT; why an industry flooded with frictionless AI content could put a new premium on human creativity; why craft is ultimately a form of respect for the audience; and whether we’re heading towards a world where “100% human made” becomes something worth signalling.We also go inside the institutions that have spent decades setting the bar for the industry.What is Cannes Lions actually for now? Do awards still influence the direction of advertising? What separates work that wins awards from work that actually works? Why might the client be the bravest person on an award-winning team? And is safe, generic “wallpaper” advertising actually the biggest risk a brand can take?Paul takes us inside AXA’s “Three Words,” one of the standout ideas from Cannes Lions, and the difficult boardroom conversations behind adding domestic violence coverage to its insurance policies. It’s a fascinating example of creativity moving beyond communications and into the business itself.That leads us somewhere even more interesting: what happens when creative people stop being handed a media plan and start getting closer to the product, the organization and the problem?We talk Oatly’s Department of Mind Control, why some of advertising’s greatest ideas came from creatives wandering around factory floors, the Bitcoin investment Paul wishes he’d made, why curiosity still matters, and what the next generation should know coming into the business.And after a career spent thinking about some of the world’s most celebrated advertising, Paul tells us what he’d put on his LinkedIn tombstone: “It’s only advertising.”Paul Kemp-Robertson is Chief Content Officer at LIONS. He co-founded Contagious and previously worked at Shots and Leo Burnett.Second Wind is a podcast about the people, ideas and forces reshaping advertising, creativity and marketing.Hosted by Kerrie Finch and Gully Flowers.A Second Wind podcast by AKA.