Merging Wisdom

Psychologist, therapist, Enneagram coach, and Big Self School founder Dr. Shelley Prevost joins Joel, Sarina, and Dan for a conversation about artificial intelligence and what it means to be human in this new era. Drawing on her background in therapy, startups, and Enneagram coaching, Shelley shares how she built Emma, an AI tool designed to support personal growth, and why she believes thoughtful people need to help shape this growing technology.From the dizzying pace of AI development to the possibility of a world less defined by work, we explore the hopes, fears, and ethical questions surrounding machines that can do more and more. What happens to meaning and purpose when productivity is no longer our central measure of worth? Who helps determine the values guiding AI? And how do we engage with its possibilities while preserving creativity, community, and real human connection?Plus: Dan admits to arguing with ChatGPT, Claude gets an Enneagram type, and the conversation turns to embracing the "imperfect", staying creative, and why an AI pastor who agrees with everything you believe might not be what you need.IN THIS EPISODE• Shelley’s journey from therapy to startups and AI• Building Emma to assist with Enneagram typing and support clients between sessions• Why exponential growth is difficult to grasp and what Fenway Park has to do with it• AI hallucinations, everyday frustrations, and the question of human values• What we mean by intelligence, pattern recognition, and the next wave of robotics• Falling development costs, job displacement, and the promise of abundance• Universal basic income and the challenge of adapting our social systems• Existential risks, competing predictions, and AI as a psychological Rorschach test• Who should guide AI - and what it means to protect our humanity• Meaning and purpose beyond productivity and work• Super-intelligence, self-regulation, and the need for human oversight• Local communities, churches, and caring for people through change• In-person connection, the arts, and the value of human imperfection• Turning fear into thoughtful participation and purposeful actionMENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION• The Enneagram and its instinctual subtypes• ChatGPT and Anthropic’s Claude• Emma, Shelley’s AI tool• Big Self School• University of Tennessee at Chattanooga• Fenway Park and the doubling-water illustration• Elon Musk and the possibility of an AI-driven abundance• Waymo and autonomous vehicles• Universal basic income (UBI)• Rorschach inkblot tests• Sam Altman• Mo Gawdat and the minimum energy principle• Bill Gates• Suno and AI-generated musicABOUT SHELLEYBig Self School: https://www.bigselfschool.comEmma: https://www.bigselfschool.com/emmaABOUT MERGING WISDOMMerging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. We seek wisdom wherever it’s found - and explore how what we discover can lead to meaningful action, real change, and a life lived well. Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy.Explore more: https://mergingwisdom.com#ShelleyPrevost #ArtificialIntelligence #AI #technology #Meaning #Purpose #BigSelfSchool #MergingWisdom

Emmy-winning comedy writer, producer, and director Brent Forrester joins Dan, Sarina, and Joel for a conversation about the wisdom behind the humor. Drawing on his work on The Simpsons, The Office, The Ben Stiller Show, and King of the Hill, Brent shares stories from the writers’ room and the lessons he's learned about comedy, creativity, conviction, and the contradictions that make us laugh.From a deep dive discussion into the "golden era" of The Simpsons and two enduring Conan O’Brien bits to Michael Scott’s self-image and Rainn Wilson’s approach to Dwight, we explore the mechanics and psychology of what makes us laugh. The conversation also moves into faith, questioning authority, the ethics of humor, and the possibility of seeing ourselves - and each other - with less judgment.Plus: Dan presents his Monty Python thesis, Brent offers a nuanced response, and Jack Handey’s Deep Thoughts gets a mixed reception from the hosts.IN THIS EPISODEFinding a first mentor in Susan HarrisThe Simpsons’ "golden era" and the pressure of its writers’ roomLearning the mechanics of comedy and knowing when to trust your instinctsThe two comedy bits Brent gave ConanWriting “Homer vs. Patty and Selma” and “Lemon of Troy”John Swartzwelder’s distinctive voice and the power of visual humorThe Simpsons, Christianity, and the ethical value of questioning authoritySam Harris, spiritual experience, and common ground across different beliefsWhy comedy can communicate difficult ideas without becoming a lectureMichael Scott, ego, and Brent’s “core comic contradiction”Finding Ben Stiller’s character in Mystery MenWhat Rainn Wilson taught Brent about playing a character without judgmentIs Monty Python funny? Cultural context and subjective vs. objective opinions of humorSurprise and misdirection as a comedic utilityMENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATIONThe Simpsons, The Office, King of the Hill, and The Ben Stiller ShowSusan Harris and The Golden Girls“You Only Move Twice,” “The Springfield Files,” and "Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed Grunt)cious"David Mirkin, David Cross, Janeane Garofalo, Bob Odenkirk, and Judd ApatowConan O’Brien, and Clutch Cargo“Lemon of Troy,” “Homer vs. Patty and Selma,” Shakespeare’s Henry V, and John SwartzwelderSam Simon, James L. Brooks, and George MeyerSam HarrisStephen ColbertGreg Daniels and Mike JudgeMichael Scott and Rainn Wilson as Dwight SchruteAustin Powers, Inspector Clouseau, and Mr. Furious from Mystery MenMonty Python's cheese shop, and parrot sketchesBea Arthur, Rue McClanahan, and Betty White (The Golden Girls)Jack Handey's Deep Thoughts, and George Meyer’s Army ManBrent’s YouTube channel @ProfessorBFo, Historic Freedomburg, and Thank You for SharonABOUT BRENTYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ProfessorBFoWebsite and comedy writing classes: https://www.brentforrester.comABOUT MERGING WISDOMMerging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. We seek wisdom wherever it’s found—and explore how what we discover can lead to meaningful action, real change, and a life lived well.Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy.Follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and join us for conversations where curiosity meets honest reflection. If this episode resonates with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review.Merging Wisdom: https://www.mergingwisdom.com#MergingWisdom #BrentForrester #ProfesorBFo #TheSimpsons #TheOffice #KingOfTheHill #Comedy #Humor #Wisdom

What happens when success starts driving the train and what happens when faith becomes tangled up with politics?Phil Vischer, creator of VeggieTales and co-host of The Holy Post Podcast, joins Joel, Dan, and Sarina for a conversation full of insights and hard-earned wisdom from his life and career. Phil reflects on creating VeggieTales and the pressures of early success, losing the company he built, and discovering the difference between working for God and walking with God.Phil and the hosts discuss how American evangelical Christianity became intertwined with political identity, capitalism, and celebrity culture. Along the way, Phil offers a hopeful invitation: return to the teachings of Jesus, love the people in front of you, and discover the sacred in ordinary life.IN THIS EPISODEBob, Larry, and whether VeggieTales is actually about vegetablesThe dangers of early success without self-awarenessCreativity, calling, and trying to become the next Walt DisneyFamily expectations and the pressure to do “big things for God”Bankruptcy, letting go, and faith without a tidy success storyJoy and the fruit of the Spirit as a different measure of a meaningful lifePhil’s perspective on how evangelical faith became linked to conservative politicsThe Cold War, Christian media, and the formation of a religious voting blocVeggieTales, Left Behind, and the cultural reach of Christian entertainmentDarby, the rapture, and the history behind inherited beliefsWhy Phil describes evangelicalism as a flea market rather than a single institutionReligious freedom, competing platforms, and personality-driven ChristianityReturning to the Sermon on the Mount in an age of fear and outrageCreating small communities of love, justice, and careQuiet faithfulness, everyday responsibilities, and leaving outcomes to GodMENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATIONVeggieTales and The Holy PostAndrew Peterson and Randall GoodgameWalt Disney, Ron Howard, MTV, and Toy StoryLogan Storie and his conversation on Merging WisdomBiola University and GuidepostsWheaton CollegePhyllis Schlafly and Barry GoldwaterBilly Graham and William Randolph HearstJerry Falwell, Howard Phillips, Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, and Focus on the FamilyLeft Behind, The Simpsons, and Saturday Night LiveJohn Nelson Darby, D. L. Moody, and the Scofield Reference BibleJohn Wesley, George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, and Benjamin FranklinPope Leo XIV, Mister Rogers, and Dolly PartonWhat If Jesus Was Serious? by Skye JethaniDallas Willard, Eugene Peterson, and Richard FosterABOUT MERGING WISDOMMerging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. We seek wisdom wherever it’s found—and explore how what we discover can lead to meaningful action, real change, and a life lived well.Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy.Follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, and join us for conversations where curiosity meets honest reflection. If this episode resonates with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review.Merging Wisdom: https://www.mergingwisdom.comHoly Post Website: https://www.holypost.com#MergingWisdom #PhilVischer #VeggieTales #HolyPost #Evangelicalism #FaithAndPolitics #Wisdom #SpiritualGrowth

Logan Storie brings an extraordinary résumé: Division I swimmer at the University of Florida, two-time U.S. Olympic Trials competitor, Team USA modern pentathlete, and U.S. Army officer. In 2015, he set a world record in modern pentathlon’s swimming event. His accomplishments also include an 800-meter freestyle bronze medal at the U.S. Open and back-to-back podium finishes with his teammates at the Best Ranger Competition, second in 2023 and third in 2024.In this conversation, Logan joins Joel Hubbard and Dan Heroy to explore the wisdom behind those achievements: learning to stay calm under pressure, trusting years of preparation, becoming a beginner again, and finding purpose beyond a particular result. From the Olympic Trials to military service, he shares how his understanding of success has shifted from chasing outcomes to valuing the process.We also explore flow state, the ways overthinking can derail performance, and why consistency matters in everyday life. Logan closes with a candid reflection on his own experiences with anxiety and depression, the importance of seeking help, and what keeps him moving forward as an athlete, soldier, husband, and father.IN THIS EPISODE• Growing up in a family of competitive swimmers and developing a drive to improve• What individual competition teaches us about accountability and honest feedback• Shifting from results-driven ambition to enjoying the process• Choosing an environment where you are challenged instead of comfortable• Inside the Olympic Trials: nerves, preparation, and a breakthrough race• Pursuing an Olympic dream and finding a new direction when it doesn’t happen• Modern pentathlon’s military roots and its changing events• Joining the Army’s World Class Athlete Program and learning new disciplines• Why progress isn’t always linear• How discipline and coachability transfer beyond sports• Stoicism, character, and staying balanced under pressure• Flow state, trusting your training, and letting go of the last mistake• Logan’s approach to exercise consistency and fueling demanding training• Setting meaningful goals while learning to enjoy the present• An honest conversation about mental health in elite athleticsMENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION• University of Florida swimming• Team USA and modern pentathlon• U.S. Army and the Best Ranger Competition• U.S. Olympic Swimming Trials in Omaha• Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte• Coach Rick Guenther, Rowdy Gaines, and Erik Vendt• U.S. Olympic Training Center and Army World Class Athlete Program• Ashton Eaton, Bo Jackson, Michael Jordan, and LeBron James• Mantis shooting-training systemABOUT MERGING WISDOMMerging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world.No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. Through curiosity and honest conversation, we explore what different experiences can teach us - and how to put that wisdom into practice.Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations.Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy.Merging Wisdom https://mergingwisdom.comLogan Storie - Team USA: https://www.teamusa.com/profiles/logan-storie#MergingWisdom #LoganStorie #Mindset #Discipline #FlowState #TeamUSA #PersonalGrowth

Jesse Eubanks returns to Merging Wisdom to explore desire through all nine Enneagram types. With Joel and Sarina, he looks at how good desires can become tangled with fear: protection becomes control, peace becomes comfort, and the longing to be valued becomes a need to perform.From perfectionism and people-pleasing to scarcity, self-doubt, and chasing the next experience, this conversation explores what helps us reconnect with our deeper desires and love and understand one another well. No prior Enneagram knowledge is needed.IN THIS EPISODE• Why motivation matters more than labeling someone’s behavior • Type 8: Protection, control, and rediscovering vulnerability • Type 9: Peace versus comfort—and waking up to your own wants • Type 1: Integrity, perfectionism, and making room for grace • Type 2: Being cherished versus being needed; receiving love in solitude • Type 3: Worth beyond achievement; naming shame with compassion • Type 4: Being seen, accepted, and celebrated without having to be different • Type 5: Competence versus collecting knowledge; moving from scarcity to generosity • Type 6: Security through support, learning to trust, and taking calculated risks • Type 7: The hunger for nurture, lasting joy, and being present to pain. MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION• Nadia Bolz-Weber’s interview on The Road Back to You • Mike Cosper and The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill • Genesis 1:1–3: Being present to chaos before trying to fix it • Captain America and Iron Man • How We Relate by Jesse Eubanks • Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes • Tim Keller and Counterfeit Gods • Neil deGrasse Tyson • Full House, This Is Us, Parenthood, and Dan in Real Life ABOUT MERGING WISDOMMerging Wisdom is a podcast exploring faith, psychology, culture, history, politics, and what it means to live wisely in a complex world. The goal is not simply to talk about wisdom, but to practice wisdom. Allowing what we discover to lead to meaningful action, real change, and lives shaped by greater truth, goodness, beauty, and connection.No single field, tradition, or point of view has a monopoly on wisdom. We follow the questions that matter across the boundaries that usually keep our conversations apart. We desire to always be moving towards wisdom.Where disciplines meet, wisdom emerges.Follow or subscribe so you can join future conversations.Hosted by Joel Hubbard, Dan Heroy, and Sarina Heroy.Merging Wisdom: (https://mergingwisdom.com) Jesse’s Enneagram resources: (https://relatebetter.com) The EnneaCast: (https://relatebetter.com/enneacast/) Wonderology: (https://wonderologyshow.com/)#MergingWisdom #JesseEubanks #Enneagram #Desire #Relationships #Faith #PersonalGrowth #Wisdom