DiscoverAbove the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer

Author: Legal Talk Network

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Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.

442 Episodes
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And a shorter summer associate program. ----- While most of us celebrated Thanksgiving, some of Trump's phony U.S. Attorneys were the real turkeys. First, a conservative leaning panel of the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the million dollar sanctions against Donald Trump and the parking garage lawyer he claims to have running the District of New Jersey. Then his Eastern District cosplaying prosecutor managed to lose not one, but two of the high profile revenge cases she brought. In other news, a major firm announced a new look summer associate program as it tries to deal with the law school recruiting free-for-all that everyone hates, yet no one seems able to do anything about.
Bonuses and botched prosecutions. ----- Bonus season is underway, and Biglaw firms are lining up to reward associates for a year's worth of effort. The market scale -- unless some firm breaks rank and crashes the party -- tracks last year, which can be a bit anticlimactic, but with the economy possibly resting on the precipice of recession, this was probably all we could hope for. Also, we discuss Lindsey Halligan's epic fail in the James Comey case -- and we recorded this before the judge tossed the case. Finally, Judge Jerry Smith decided to commit his unhinged conspiracy theories to paper in a massive, doorstop of a dissent in the Texas redistricting case. And we discuss Thanksgiving sides.
But seriously, what would be a good legal dominatrix name? ------ Biglaw recruiting director out after racist rant goes public. A squabble between lawyers and their former firm presents important lessons on document management, but we spend most of the time wondering about the best legally themed dominatrix names. And we talk about Paul Weiss getting heckled at the New York Bar Foundation awards gala, providing one more embarrassing story to a rough year.
And Kirkland tries a little tenderness. FedSoc does not. ----- The news that Kirkland had to teach its lawyers how to stop being mean to the private equity industry is incredibly funny. We're not saying Kirkland is getting a bad rap here, but when did corporate clients become such fragile snowflakes? The Federalist Society's annual meeting brought together the leading minds of the Trump legal movement to call for a "war" to impeach the federal judges -- many of them longtime conservatives themselves -- for not appropriately facilitating the administration. And the DOJ completes its humiliation in the D.C. sandwich thrower case by failing to secure even a misdemeanor conviction.
DOJ punishing lawyers, the future of the billable hour, and dark times for public interest work. ----- We talk about the DOJ lawyers suspended by the White House for calling January 6 a riot in a sentencing memo. and the conversation veers down a rabbit hole about the proper role of pardons. For years, the billable hour seemed like the cockroach of law firm management, but after surviving numerous brushes with death, AI might finally force firms to look into alternative fee structures. And if you're in law school and thinking about serving the public interest, expect it to be a lot more expensive unless your future employer is blessed by the Trump administration.
And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career. ----- Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance in recognizing that Trump might be the natural and logical consequence of their own long championed conservative projects. One attendee who has no illusions over the gravity of the threat though was Judge Michael Luttig who railed against the Supreme Court in the legal equivalent of a rousing halftime locker room speech. Also, Cadwalader seems increasingly at an existential crossroads and looking for a merger partner. And a lawyer loses her job over ballpark rant -- and what's more, her team lost.
Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis. ----- Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word. Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the case. And with Trump inching closer to declaring martial law in America's cities, right-leaning legal analysts have started the process of normalizing abuse of the Insurrection Act by pretending its strict limits are really just open-ended invitations and if anyone's to blame for Donald Trump's authoritarianism, it's really Joe Biden. We manage to talk about AI and Baudrillard in a single episode.
Just in time for the AI slop to take over. ----- Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students. While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partner class? The decision to opt out of its traditional announcement message seems like a move to shield its high-achievers, but there are some other possibilities. And a Senator wants some answers after a pair of federal judges issue opinions with possible (read: likely) AI hallucinations.
One can only hope. ----- For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs. We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking some serious blows in the lateral market. Finally, the Supreme Court is back in session, so we look back at the summer of shadows, when the Court's shadow docket finally crashed into the reality of a president unwilling to play the game and Justice Thomas shed a little light on his decision to bail on teaching his class after Dobbs.
Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted. ----- Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates. The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a flat circle. After learning that Paul Weiss and Kirkland were providing free legal services to the Commerce Department, presumably in an effort to satisfy their pro bono payola obligations, we wondered how this could possibly be legal in light of 31 U.S.C. 1342. Apparently, lawmakers wondered the same thing. And James Comey finds himself indicted after a whirlwind that involved removing the existing top federal prosecutor for refusing to file a sham case and replacing him with an in-over-her-head Florida insurance lawyer.
Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships. ----- Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media. The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury partner received a benchslapping over what the judge considered unchecked entitlement. A Biglaw partner? Entitled? No! Also, a law school responds to the new federal loan caps with guaranteed scholarships to cover the gap. Is this the start of a trend?
Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit. ----- Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started backpedaling. Meanwhile, Sotomayor went on Colbert and bent over backward to give her conservative colleagues the benefit of the doubt, requiring Colbert to step in and remind us of the fire in Sotomayor's dissent. Two very different media hits, but a consistent reminder that the justices just aren't willing to forge a genuine connection with the public over media. Also, Ropes & Gray maintains a single-tier partnership (for now) and Megan Thee Stallion case introduces the world to process servers taking things up a notch.
Law school is more expensive than it used to be... but barely more expensive! ----- Federal judges have had to deal with more and more threats from conservatives whipped into up by the Trump administration rhetoric blasting judges blocking illegal executive orders, only to be unceremoniously overruled by the Supreme Court. Last week, multiple judges called out the Republican justices for issuing unexplained opinions refusing to challenge -- indeed, passively encouraging -- Trump's attacks. So much for Chief Justice Roberts sanctimoniously declaring that the threats are just a product of the public not understanding the opinions. Law school tuition has skyrocketed in real terms for decades, but based on the last 10 years, the fever may finally have broken. Meanwhile, Amy Coney Barrett has some books to sell! And she's going to do it by playing up her image as the tortured, yet principled conservative who strips Americans of long enshrined freedoms, but just because she has no other choice. And, as she made clear in Dobbs, women and choice just don't mix!
The Department of Justice is having a rough time getting those trumped up charges (pun intended) from the fed's takeover of D.C. to stick. Plus lawyer getting slammed for trying to use opposing counsel's premature baby as leverage. And infamous law professor Amy Wax has her legal case against University of Pennsylvania thrown out of court, but it's unlikely to be the end of her antics.
We know where some of those pro bono payola hours are going. ----- Be prepared to be on the clock a lot longer at King & Spalding, where the firm has introduced a 2400 hour “productive” time target. In other words, attorneys will have to figure out how to describe 2400 hours worth of work to the firm’s billing software every year. This seems to follow the overarching retreat from the work from home era, which also made news this week with a firm announcing a new office mandate… but just for some associates. Justice Jackson drew upon a generational touchstone to succinctly describe the Supreme Court majority’s jurisprudence. And a pair of the spineless firms are providing free legal services to the Commerce Department.
Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter. ----- The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney. He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they preparing to batten down the hatches for a recession? Supreme Court begins moving the pieces into place to tear down Obergefell.
Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses, ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in. There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is. Biglaw partner lateral moves are all the rage, with some major moves this summer. But not everyone is benefitting from the hotness of the lateral market -- all because of a little thing called due diligence.
And Coldplay and pierogis. ----- A woman went into cardiac arrest during the New York bar exam. Thankfully, the administrators responded swiftly. JUST KIDDING! They yelled at other examinees to be quiet and keep working on the test while they deliberated about calling for emergency assistance, according to multiple witnesses. The woman survived, but the bar exam's unwillingness to admit its mistakes expose the rotten incentives of this stupid, unnecessary test. The Coldplay jumbotron affair sparks litigation rumors... which might be the only idea worse than taking your affair to a concert. And Alan Dershowitz is very angry that no one will sell him a pierogi.
Get it together, people! ----- It was a very bad week for lawyers and hallucinations. A federal judge had to withdraw an opinion with fake cites. One Biglaw firm fired a partner over an invented case, while another firm got tossed off a case over AI shenanigans. And the scribe of Ashurbanipal got mercilessly trolled by a judge pointing out that his fake AI cite apology included... another fake cite. Why does it seem like this is all getting worse? A Biglaw firm pushes its start date leaving incoming associates in the lurch and Alina Habba might be the U.S. Attorney for New Jersey. Or maybe not. Or maybe yes.
Lots to chew on this week. ----- Biglaw summer associate let go after biting upwards of 15 people at the firm. Now that sounds crazy, but that's because it is. We also discuss a lawyer's biting response to a demand letter. A lot of the professional decorum advocates objected to the tone, but at a certain point how does the profession pushback against aggressive and unfounded demands without public shaming? There's not another readily accessible disincentive. Finally, we address the gnashing of teeth in conservative media ecosphere over Superman being an immigrant and the knots they're willing to tie themselves into in order to avoid the obvious.
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Comments (9)

ncooty

A very low-density podcast. Is that what it's like to think like a lawyer? Pass.

Apr 23rd
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Siiora Surgicals

You may choose to major in subjects that are considered to be traditional preparation for law school, such as history, English, philosophy, political science, economics or business, or you may focus your undergraduate studies in areas as diverse as art, music, science and mathematics, computer science, engineering, https://legalfav.com/

Apr 10th
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ncooty

@19:31: The obligatory invocation of "diversity issues" here was pretty flippantly made, given the seriousness of the accusation. As good lawyers, you avoided making a precise claim, but the implied accusation was clear: that bias exists in the tests. However, this undercuts other claims that the bias exists in society (such that it should be accurately reflected in a test). Moreover, neither of those competing claims addresses why such biases largely disappear when we control for socio-economic status. Never mind all of that, though; you have successfully virtue-signalled.

Dec 4th
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Debra Dukes

Another Awesome Podcast and Security is your first priority and everything is not always straight forward. Thanks so much for sharing Deb .👍✌

Apr 9th
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Debra Dukes

Excellent Podcast and no one has to be stuck with one place and can move on to some where else later in time.Things change Quickly. Thanks so much for sharing Deb 😉✌

Apr 9th
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Derek Odom

haha trump bad orange fans stoopid

Aug 15th
Reply (1)

charles collinson

Very insightful generally. As a non-American though it can be somewhat opaque due to jargon and a requirement of assumed knowledge re popular American personalities. Still love it though even though it isn't Law in Action

Jul 10th
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Jeff Ton

This podcast is outstanding. I am not a lawyer, yet this is funny, insightful, educational, and wonderfully irreverent!

Jan 11th
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