Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
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Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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We know where some of those pro bono payola hours are going.
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Be prepared to be on the clock a lot longer at King & Spalding, where the firm has introduced a 2400 hour “productive” time target. In other words, attorneys will have to figure out how to describe 2400 hours worth of work to the firm’s billing software every year. This seems to follow the overarching retreat from the work from home era, which also made news this week with a firm announcing a new office mandate… but just for some associates. Justice Jackson drew upon a generational touchstone to succinctly describe the Supreme Court majority’s jurisprudence. And a pair of the spineless firms are providing free legal services to the Commerce Department.
Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter.
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The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney. He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they preparing to batten down the hatches for a recession? Supreme Court begins moving the pieces into place to tear down Obergefell.
Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses, ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in.
There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is.
Biglaw partner lateral moves are all the rage, with some major moves this summer. But not everyone is benefitting from the hotness of the lateral market -- all because of a little thing called due diligence.
And Coldplay and pierogis.
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A woman went into cardiac arrest during the New York bar exam. Thankfully, the administrators responded swiftly. JUST KIDDING! They yelled at other examinees to be quiet and keep working on the test while they deliberated about calling for emergency assistance, according to multiple witnesses. The woman survived, but the bar exam's unwillingness to admit its mistakes expose the rotten incentives of this stupid, unnecessary test. The Coldplay jumbotron affair sparks litigation rumors... which might be the only idea worse than taking your affair to a concert. And Alan Dershowitz is very angry that no one will sell him a pierogi.
Get it together, people!
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It was a very bad week for lawyers and hallucinations. A federal judge had to withdraw an opinion with fake cites. One Biglaw firm fired a partner over an invented case, while another firm got tossed off a case over AI shenanigans. And the scribe of Ashurbanipal got mercilessly trolled by a judge pointing out that his fake AI cite apology included... another fake cite. Why does it seem like this is all getting worse? A Biglaw firm pushes its start date leaving incoming associates in the lurch and Alina Habba might be the U.S. Attorney for New Jersey. Or maybe not. Or maybe yes.
Lots to chew on this week.
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Biglaw summer associate let go after biting upwards of 15 people at the firm. Now that sounds crazy, but that's because it is. We also discuss a lawyer's biting response to a demand letter. A lot of the professional decorum advocates objected to the tone, but at a certain point how does the profession pushback against aggressive and unfounded demands without public shaming? There's not another readily accessible disincentive. Finally, we address the gnashing of teeth in conservative media ecosphere over Superman being an immigrant and the knots they're willing to tie themselves into in order to avoid the obvious.
Law firm mergers and John Roberts brags for the crowd.
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Has the era of the mid-sized firm come to an end? Probably not, but with increasing nationalization and the financial pressures that go along with it, mid-sized firms are consolidating and a valuable segment (and price point!) may be lost. Lawyers have faced a steady stream of sanctions for citing fake cases generated by AI, but now a judge officially blessed an order based on AI-hallucinated cases as a critical firewall in the war against machine slop is breached. While AI holds out promise for access to justice, the risk of a lawless free-for-all looms. Speaking of lawless free-for-alls, the Chief Justice explains that he doesn't care about substantive criticism of the Court because he has votes and the critics don't.
The Term ended with a whole lot of nonsense.
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Taking a sledgehammer where a chisel -- or better yet nothing -- would do, the Supreme Court nixed injunctions it didn't like by striking down the power to issue universal injunctions totally and addressed schools teaching that gay people exist by expanding strict scrutiny to parents lodging religious complaints. But at least they whined and took swipes at each other over it! Meanwhile, Justice Sonia Sotomayor figured out that if the majority wants to hide their rulings, the dissent can characterize them on their own. Also, the University of Florida Law School gave a top prize to a paper advocating a Whites-Only Constitution. The professor? Trump-appointed federal judge. The school's effort to explain itself left a lot to be desired.
And the Supreme Court has a wild one.
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Except those judges aren't going to like it when you catch them. Like the poor lawyer here who called a judge "honey" during oral argument and entered a spiral of no return. We also had a dramatic week at the Supreme Court, with Justice Gorsuch trying to start something with Justice Jackson and Justice Jackson shutting it right down, and Sam Alito using his concurrence to complain that the transgender care ban is an act of discrimination... and the he wants the Court to be more proud of it. And Vault put out its law firm prestige rankings. Hopefully nothing went down immediately after their survey that radically changed how people perceive the firms!
Also, the role of bar associations in 2025.
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According to a new survey, lawyers think their law firms are really tolerant of jerks. Are they right about that, or just overly sensitive? The DC Bar election ended in a blowout, but why? For all the complaining about some wild theories on social media, the simpler reason is that leading a bar association in 2025 means standing up to the administration and Pam Bondi's brother never convinced the members that he'd be able to do that. In fact, the right-wing fear of strong bar associations has gotten so serious that the Florida supreme court actively kneecapped their state bar. And we talk about attending David Lat's Original Jurisdiction party, which you should also be reading.
Caving law firms experience exodus.
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Paul Weiss fancied itself clever when it offered Trump pro bono payola in exchange for dropping an illegal executive order. Instead it keeps hemorrhaging senior lawyers with more departing to join the recent rainmaker spinoff and associates reportedly high on the new firm's wish list. While litigators are largely driving defections from surrender firms, at what point does a hollowed out litigation department start to impact the firm as a whole? Harvard Law Review found itself harassed by the government and it looks like the reason might be a snitch burrowed into the White House. And the one-track partnership model took more hits with Ropes & Gray and Debevoise agreeing to add non-equity tiers.
Quite the combination of words.
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Lawsuit against former Texas SG alleges bizarre cosmic sex fetish. The administration made two significant changes to the judicial nomination process, firing the ABA from its neutral evaluator role and kicking the Federalist Society to the curb. The latter move came with an epic rant declaring Leonard Leo a sleazebag. Broken clocks and all. And Kash Patel lays out the FBI's priorities and child predators and terrorists are now lower on the most wanted list than, "your neighbor who posted an 8647 joke."
From the administrative state to voting rights, they're just sort of winging it trying to reverse engineer results.
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As Supreme Court season hits fever pitch, we're joined by Professor Leah Litman, author of Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes, to discuss the nightmare we're facing. Elena Kagan took the opportunity to humiliate her colleagues last week calling out an arbitrary carve out created to protect their investments. Kagan's frustration seems to be growing down the stretch, having just eviscerated the government in the birthright citizenship case. Meanwhile, Kristi Noem failed introductory constitutional law in front of the Senate, flailing as she tried to define habeas corpus.
Seashellgate meets Surrendergate.
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Since we're cursed to act as keepers of the flame to remind the legal community that several large law firms really did willingly sell out to the Trump administration, this week we discuss our columnist Vivia Chen's exploration of the unique impact of these moves on young lawyers learning early that Biglaw is more than happy to throw them under the bus.
We also discuss how James Comey's Instagram pic triggered a tragicomic meltdown of some of the most deranged people on the internet ranting about seashells as a subliminal assassination threat worthy of John Wilkes Squarepants. Unfortunately, some of those internet denizens are also running federal law enforcement. And we conduct a lightning round of quirky Am Law 100 financial facts that will make you appreciate that you took some time off last year.
What if we just act like nothing happened?
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Biglaw firms who gave in to Trump suffered a scathing 60 Minutes piece and key talent defections, so they've decided upon a new tactic: pretending they never made a deal at all! It does not appear to be working. Meanwhile, Justice David Souter died reminding everyone of an era when the federal judiciary cared more about the right answer than appeasing political patrons. Unfortunately, Souter's nomination inadvertently triggered that change. And we have a Biglaw merging in the offing that hopes to create a new $2B firm.
It was a bad week to compromise your values.
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Perkins Coie secured a permanent injunction against the Trump administration's retaliatory executive order. Meanwhile, firms that balked at putting up a fight against the illegal attacks have seen the White House drag them into police brutality cases and law schools start openly talking about students taking their talents elsewhere. And then the harshest cut of all -- a deep pocketed client bailed on a collaborator firm to give business to a firm standing up to Trump. Who could've predicted except anyone who ever watched Star Wars. Also we talk about California's latest bar exam debacle and the White House's threat against Amal Clooney.
The arrest of Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan is straight outta dystopian fiction. But at least retired Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer still has faith in the system, which makes one of us. Speaking of the High Court, Justice Sam Alito's dissent would be laughable if he weren't so powerful.
And the world continues to melt.
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We've got key financial data from the top law firms and the takeaway is that it's good to be a big firm. The Am Law 100 this year revealed that more and more firms have joined the super rich and things look bright for Biglaw. Unless someone triggers a global depression or something. We also discuss what it means to be "bipartisan" in an environment where the intellectual stars of the conservative legal movement are ALSO lining up to call out the Trump administration as a threat to the rule of law. Finally, we flag a troubling law school story about scholarships getting cut when admissions gets blindsided by applications.
US News and World Report released its most recent law school rankings with a side of chaos, but the big takeaway is the scrambling and erosion of the "T14" as an organizing concept. Is it time to dismiss the rankings as arbitrary? At least until law schools agree to cooperate again. Also, Surrendergate continues and the "we'll do some pro bono for veterans" deal has turned dramatically, with the White House now claiming the authority to "assign" Biglaw firms to work on administration projects. Sound familiar? Along the way, firms are starting to lose senior lawyers fulfilling critical firm roles while the most recent defectors alienate the overwhelming majority of their team. Finally, the Supreme Court has issued some unanimous rebukes in defense of due process and the administration does not seem to care.
And now we have a tracker for that!
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After a few weeks of watching some law firms stand up to facially illegal demands from the Trump administration... and more law firms rapidly cave to those same demands, we put together a helpful tracker to keep clients, potential laterals, and law students fully aware of where firms currently stand. But we depend on you out there to keep us up-to-date! Meanwhile, more associates have taken a stand against their surrendering firms and some law students have already told the firm recruiting events that they aren't interested in firms that can't stand up for themselves. Also the February bar exam numbers were terrible.
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A very low-density podcast. Is that what it's like to think like a lawyer? Pass.
You may choose to major in subjects that are considered to be traditional preparation for law school, such as history, English, philosophy, political science, economics or business, or you may focus your undergraduate studies in areas as diverse as art, music, science and mathematics, computer science, engineering, https://legalfav.com/
@19:31: The obligatory invocation of "diversity issues" here was pretty flippantly made, given the seriousness of the accusation. As good lawyers, you avoided making a precise claim, but the implied accusation was clear: that bias exists in the tests. However, this undercuts other claims that the bias exists in society (such that it should be accurately reflected in a test). Moreover, neither of those competing claims addresses why such biases largely disappear when we control for socio-economic status. Never mind all of that, though; you have successfully virtue-signalled.
Another Awesome Podcast and Security is your first priority and everything is not always straight forward. Thanks so much for sharing Deb .👍✌
Excellent Podcast and no one has to be stuck with one place and can move on to some where else later in time.Things change Quickly. Thanks so much for sharing Deb 😉✌
haha trump bad orange fans stoopid
Very insightful generally. As a non-American though it can be somewhat opaque due to jargon and a requirement of assumed knowledge re popular American personalities. Still love it though even though it isn't Law in Action
This podcast is outstanding. I am not a lawyer, yet this is funny, insightful, educational, and wonderfully irreverent!