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The Ad Navseam podcast, where Classical gourmands everywhere can finally get their fill. Join hosts Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle for a lively discussion of Greco-Roman civilization stretching from the Minoans and Mycenaeans, through the Renaissance, and right down to the present.
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This week the guys wrap up their look at Richard's trenchant book with his final chapter on the classics and American slavery. Richard teases out how both pro-slavery factions (John C. Calhoun, Thomas Dew, George Fitzhugh) and abolitionists (William Lloyd Garrison, Frederick Douglass) marshaled Greco-Roman thinkers to support their respective causes. The South argued that the flourishing of the arts and thought in Athens was a result of the elite classes being freed from work by the slave population, while the North saw slavery as Athens’ biggest flaw. What do Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero have to say about it all? Did they believe that some swaths of humanity were naturally servile? And, what does “natural law” suggest? Tune in and find out. There's plenty of room here for all of us to learn, even the Twainees.
Dave and Jeff this week tackle two fascinating articles in a portmanteau of Classical learning (Sahoney-Mahouter). First up, it's the 1911 article by famed philologist and New Testament scholar Alexander Souter. Examining the evidence, and building a cumulative argument, Souter argues that the Apostle Paul in all probability could speak the language of Rome's seven hills. But how strong is his case, and where might it be vulnerable to pushback? Then after halftime, Anne Mahoney (Tufts Univ.) leads the show back on to the gridiron for some computer-aided analysis of what Greek and Latin forms are indispensable as to frequency, and which are more of a purple unicorn that can safely be shelved until the third or fourth semester. For language gurus, you won't want to miss the surprises here: vocative outranks dative? Present and perfect tense verbs constitute almost 75% of all Latin verb forms? Quid rei est? And, be sure to send in your own audio clips for episode 200 to join the fun.
All you Marrou fans out there may have been wondering, "Where did that fabulous Frenchmen go"? After all, this little podcast has not covered H.I.'s theme since April 1 of the current year. Fitting date? Don't be fooled, Jeff and Dave have not given up on all things ancient education, and this week the guys return to Part II, Chapter IX. In this portion of the larger section, Classical Education in the Hellenistic Age, Marrou is dealing with what he entitles "Lesser Forms". How was the ephebia structured, and how did the architectural forms change to match this? What did the typical syllabus contain, and what of the formation of a canon? What is the connection between thinking great thoughts and walking? Should you look out for roving hygienists in your neighborhood, and can you earn a certificate or award for φιλοπονία (love of industry)? The disscussion next moves on to the "birdcage" center of ancient learning, the Museum (Alexandria, et alia), where MacArthur Fellowship recipients complained about the sluggish wifi and were feted by the Ptolemies. But we digress. Stick around for the closing bit on medicine and vo. tech, and think about sending us your own reflections for episode 200!
The guys are back to Ovid this week for another pair of vignettes. First up it’s the tragic, would-be love affair between little-known Trojan prince Aesacus and his would be wooed Hesperia. Like Eurydice, Hesperia forgets her little galoshes, and is struck down by a deadly snake in the grass before Aesacus can catch her. Aesacus can’t handle it and goes full Greg Louganis, until the gods turn him into a diving bird. What is Ovid saying here about fate and love's destructive power? Then its on to Pomona who turns down every “prom-posal” till Vertumnus, the sylvan Cicero, gives it a go. Even then it’s no picnic…he’s forced to become his own “wing man”…er, woman? What’s the message? Stop chasing, fellas, and up your disguise and persuasion game? Tune in and find out. Also, don't miss the on-air drawing for the Plato prize.
What hath Athens to do with Jerusalem, Corinth with Philadelphia, or Ephesus with Ft. Lauderdale? Perennial questions these, no doubt, and it doesn't take a Tertullian to ask or answer them. Charles Sumner, Nathaniel "Crimson Digit" Hawthorne, James Fenimore Cooper, or Charles Francis Adams will do. Join the guys this week for the penultimate look at Carl Richard's taut, thrilling, barn-burner, as we peel back the layers on the relationship between Christianity and Classical culture at the apogee of the latter's popularity in those British castoffs, the former colonies. Does pagan morality dovetail nicely with the Christian faith, or is it sharply at odds? What of the antithesis between Christ's "love your enemies and pray for those who hate you", and the Homeric honor code of strict vengeance? Is this conflict real or imagined? And, just how much nudity is acceptable in statuary and painting, whether a Venus di Urbino, or George Washington, who, says Hawthorne, had so much gravitas that he was born clothed? All this and more, plus the usual servings of bad puns (not all Dave's, as it turns out). Don't miss this!
Check this one out! This episode is long overdue! All will be fine(s). Don't get all Dewey-eyed (and other book-borrowing puns)! This week the guys delve into the history (and some stubborn myths regarding it) of the Library of Alexandria. Most people have heard of its “burning”, but do the generally accepted versions of it hold water? Once you get past the cover it seems like things are a bit more complicated: it didn’t all burn down at once; it probably wasn’t the devastating, permanent loss of knowledge as it’s sometimes portrayed, and the whole pagan vs. Christian finger pointing doesn’t help. Join Jeff "Jamie Franklin Hyneman" Winkle and Dave "Adam Savage" Noe as they look at the ancient sources and the archaeology (or lack thereof), and attempt to get down to the nittus-grittus.
This week, Jeff and Dave wrap up the third installment in their brief series on Plato's Apology. So what exactly is Socrates' daimon? Is it like conscience, sometimes accusing, sometimes excusing? Is it similar to what the apostle Paul describes in Romans 2.14-15? If so, how come Socrates' inner voice never motivates him toward action, but only seeks to drive him away from something? And, is Socrates really being honest when he says he is no threat to traditional Athenian religion, seeing how his definition of the divine is anything but Homeric, but rather consists in a newly strict ethical conception, wherein the gods must -- gasp -- behave at least as well as their worshippers? And finally, what's Dave got against Shawshank? Is there any way to redeem this episode? O Chalupa, just tune in to find out!
Sorry (not sorry), it’s back to Plato’s Apology this week for round two. This time the guys tackle the nature of the elenchus—the method of question and answer that Socrates uses to get closer to the ‘truth’ and refute arguments of his interlocturos. How does it show up in the Apology itself? Is the elenchtic method a useful ‘truth-finding’ tool orjust a manipulative tactic not that far from what the Sophists peddled? Where does Socrates end and Plato begin? And how might this affect your opinion of the chalupa? We also turn to the great Gregory Vlastos for help as well as examining Socrates’ beef with the craftsmen. Be sure to listen for the magic word for the great Hackett giveaway.
At long last, Jeff and Dave get around to talking about the great granddaddy of all Western philosophy: Socrates. In this episode, the guys lay the groundwork for a look at Socrates' defense speech, the Apology. What were the social and political factors that contributed to putting the pug-nosed wonder on trial? How did the reign of the 30 tyrants, and Plato's aristocratic background, as well as Socrates'connections to great men like Pericles influence the content of the speech? This episode also examines the role of the elenchus, Socrates' system of question-and-answer refutation, in the development of ethical and moral teaching in the 5th century. Tune in for the instruction, the laughs, and a chance to win your copy of C.D.C. Reeve's A Plato Reader, from Hackett.
This week the guys finish up their look at Wycherley’s How the Greeks Built Cities. We pick up the text with a consideration of the “agora,” a term (as Wycherley emphasizes) that encompasses much more than the translation “marketplace” gets at. Yes, it was a center of business, but also politics, athletics, entertainment, philosophy, and education, while also giving rise to particular architectural features like the stoa. From there we delve into other key features that nearly every Greek polis had—religious shrines, gymnasia, stadiums. Where did the Greeks tend to place these things in their cities? We employ very similar structures and practices today, but do we use or understand them in the same way? After all that we cap it off with a look at residential life, and the form and function of a typical Greek house.
Jeff and Dave are back at the classical goodness this week, with a two-parter from R.E. Wycherly's slim yet substantive volume, How the Greeks Built Cities (1962). Did you ever wonder why today's cities are laid out in a grid pattern? Why here in the U.S. you can count eight blocks per mile? Why most contemporary cities have NE, SE, NW, and SW quadrants? Could this, too, be credited to the Greeks? Or is it just another crazy, Toula Portokalos figment? Spoiler alert: the Greeks strike again. The whole thing was the ingenious innovation of Hippodamus of Miletus, apparently a long-haired rascal, (Hippie-Damus?), who single-handedly revolutionized the design of cities in Attica, Italy, and Rhodes. His ideas (let's keep it all perpindicular, folks) caught on like wildfire. In this episode, we tackle the Preface and Chs. I-III. Chapter I: Growth of the Greek City; Chapter II: Greek Town-planning; Chapter III: Fortifications. And, be sure to tune in for the Herculean opening!
This week Jeff and Dave are wrapping up the Attic portion of their whirlwind tour through beginning Greek textbooks. On the menu today is the text of Donald Mastronarde, as well as Athenaze. After some introductory comments, i.e., a fine anecdote from Halik Kochanski's magisterial Resistance, the nit and the grit of Mastronarde's very thorough presentation is then duly engaged, with a discussion of the presentation of the verb εἰμί, types of the genitive and dative, and a close look at the exempla provided. Then, it's on to Athenaze, a handsome, readings-based text presented obviously with the neophyte student in mind, with engaging stories, clear presentations, excellent vocab. lists, and more. Finally, the guys wrap up with a tour through MossMethod, the 1893 public domain text that Dave has adapted (and tirelessly peddled) to a wordlwide audience. Don't worry, Adnavserinos, we will later cover New Testament (Koine) textbooks (Mounce, Wallace, Decker, Machen, etc.) as promised. Tune in for more gooey, listening goodness.
This one is a Thoreau-back! After a brief hiatus the boys are back in town following sojourns in Greece (Jeff) and South Africa (Dave). It’s also time for our annual “4th of July”(ish) episode—so we return to Carl Richard’s masterpiece, The Golden Age of Classics in America. This time the guys take a look at the era of Romanticism and the place the Classics held amongst America’s romantics and transcendentalists. Here we see a shift away from the empiricism of Aristotle toward the inner “mysticism” of Plato and a view that the ancients should not be models to be slavishly copied, but rather taken as representative of a spirit or nature to imitate, or by which to be inspired. So get down to the lake, get in that cabin, light that lantern and get your contemplation on.
The guys are back at it this week, with round two of the deep dive into textbooks for Attic Greek. After some opening shenanigans, a corrigendum, a choice quote from Basil of Caesarea, and a trip to Burrito Chime®, Jeff and Dave review some salient differences between Attic and Koine dialects, courtesy of P.V. Nunn (1920). Six, six total! Then it's off to textbooks by Hansen and Quinn and Keller and Russell. How robust should one's grammar-translation method be? How many omega-verbs do you need, and what's the right quotient of exercise sentences in a given chapter? All this and more is in store, so don't miss the usual depth and dippy drollery!
Attic? Koine? Both? Groten and Finn? Anne Groton's Alpha to Omega? Donald Mastronarde? Hansen and Quinn? This week Jeff and Dave start a short series on how to choose a Greek textbook. After a few moments strolling down memory lane (γε!), the guys get down to business with a brief discussion of the merits of studying the Attic vs. Koine dialects (more on that in the next episode). Then they walk through the first two books in the series, pointing out the standard structure for an introductory textbook and some strategies for getting your feet wet in the language. Episdoe 185 will go deeper into the standard college texts, before pivoting (everything's basketball) to the Koine books by Mounce, Wallace, and co. Oh, and MossMethod may come up at some point! If you've studied Greek, are teaching Greek, or are thinking about taking it up, then this episode could be a great entry point for your interests!
This week we head back to Carl Richard's masterpiece from 2009, and the guys are taking a careful look at Chapter IV: Nationalism. We start out with a nice definition and perspective from one of Dave's long list of overrated authors (does he like anybody?): C.S. Lewis. Clive explains to us from The Four Loves that every country has a dreary past of some shameful and shabby doings, but it's natural and good to love her nonetheless, within reason. Then we dive into the antebellum adulation of one George Washington. Is he Demosthenes, Cicero, Hannibal, Severus, Cincinnatus, Camillus? Or is he actually all of them rolled into one? Tune in for insights from Edward Everett, Calhoun, Walt Whitman, Daniel Webster, Frederick Porcher, and more, on everything from neoclassical revival to the vast American superiority over those doddering ancients. Along the way, you'll enjoy reminiscences of the celery fields of Jenison and rural Ionia County, Michigan, as well as one of Jeff's all-time best puns. And in the end, Marathon is Always Great Again.
So, is there a Homeric influence on the New Testament? Or, more specifically (per MacDonald), did Luke deliberately pattern and structure elements in Acts of the Apostles on episodes from Iliad 2? In this episode, the guys consider the case that MacDonald lays out, namely that Luke pairs the visions of Cornelius and Peter (in Acts 10 and 11) in a way that tags the Zeus-sent dream to Agamemnon and Odysseus’ recollection of the portent of the serpent and the sparrow. Does it hold up? Would a first century audience have recognized it as such? Are the linguistic parallels convincing? And perhaps the biggest question of all: why tag Homer in the first place?
In 2003, Dennis R. MacDonald published an important monograph with Yale University Press entitled: Does the New Testament Imitate Homer? Four Cases from the Acts of the Apostles. In the provocative opening salvo, MacDonald explains: ‘"'Who would claim that the writing of prose is not reliant on the Homeric poems?' This rhetorical question by a teacher of rhetoric requires a negative answer: no ancient intellectual would have doubted that the Iliad and the Odyssey informed the composition of prose, including potentially the stories of the New Testament." Come along this week as Jeff and Dave tackle the big questions about the form-criticism take on the New Testament vs. imitation (μίμησις). MacDonald lays out his six criteria, and we get into the nit and grit of some first century compositional realities. Is MacDonald's thesis ultimately persuaive? Did Luke in Acts imitate Vergil, Homer, neither, or something else altogether? It's a complicated topic, for sure, with a long and thus far intractable history.
Neoteric poetry is on the menu this week, as the guys take a close look at what Dave considers the most beautiful and moving poem from antiquity: Catullus 101. This is the famous threnody that Gaius Valerius Catullus (87-55 B.C.) addressed to his brother's ashes in Bithynia around 57 BC. The haunting lines of elegiac couplet compress a world of sorrow and sadness into 10 short verses. Along the way, Jeff explains how Catullus might have been a beat poet, and there's much discussion of what was driving the art and culture of the time. The one gentleman of Verona, the place that was a kind of Roman Hocking Hills, made his way to the capital city at the age of 22 and quickly put his name in lights with his brilliant and racy poetry addressed to cow-eyed Lesbia. Listeners will want to tune in for the new music, a brand-new sponsor (dellachelpka.art), and the usual, though moderated - given the weighty subject matter - hijinks. Check out A.S. Kline's translation of the poem here:
https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/Catullus.php#anchor_Toc531846828
It's time to blind you with some science! Jeff and Dave follow Marrou's masterful tome (Part II, Chapter VIII) back through the centuries to see what place the other, non-literary side of the education coin held in antiquity. In contrast to present-day obsessions with STEM, we learn that while branches of mathematics were held up as an ideal, they never really took pride of place in the general education of Greeks and Romans. Instead, despite Plato's and Isocrates' best efforts, much like today math was left to the experts. In fact, when the ancients did get their math, geometry, music, and astronomy on, they preferred them with a heaping dose of myth, magic, and mysticism (we're looking at you, Pythagoras). Come along for maybe the worst ever opening gag, some Mike Rowe inspired musings, a quick look at the Greek terror of infinity, and much more. Plus: the long-awaited drawing for the Ratio 4. Who will win?
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I'm a new listener and chose this episode as one that might interest my children. We did enjoy it, but must add there are indeed moose in Michigan....upper Michigan. As Packer fans in Wisconsin we love Dr. Noe's suggestion for MI - The Lions Always Lose. 😄