After the Deluge

Ben Lee is a musician from Australia now in LA. We talk about New Wave, having his mind blown on a flight to Australia, trusting Tegan and Sara’s taste, a punk-rock duet, why Ben covered this record, the music industry changes so why resist it, would you take the Hyundai sponsorship, would you open for Maroon 5?, New Wave is a historical document, clunky sentences as catchy choruses, “Be my Baby,” Trent Reznor, Butch Vig, Nic Johns, fan backlash, and viewing your life as an art project. LISTEN TO THE AGAINST ME! SEASON ON P@TREON AND GET A ZINE

Jim-E Stack the producer of Bon Iver’s 2025 record SABLE, fABLE among many other projects. We talk about how they made the record, Justin Vernon’s patient creativity, playing drums in San Francisco, remixing songs in the blogging glory days, the novelty of this record’s EP/LP track listing, working with Lorde, playing with LEGOS, Vernon on the mixing board, whether they discussed this as the last Bon record, and a little bit about the King of the Hill reboot.  CONTACT: delugepodcast@gmail.comPATREON / ZINE: patreon.com/afterthedeluge(Free 7 day trial for you to speed run every ep) --Justin: https://www.instagram.com/routinelayup/Jim-E: https://www.instagram.com/jimestack/

Alex Robert Ross is a writer and editor based in Toronto. He wrote the Pitchfork review for SABLE, fABLE and for many years served as Editorial Director of The FADER. We talk about how most Bon Iver articles start in the cabin, reviewing the new record, Pitchfork and Bon Iver over the years, “the best album Genesis never made,” releasing the Sable EP last fall, S P E Y S I D E, playing with expectations, “January ain’t the whole world,” pressing the bruise, climbing up a tree, Danielle Haim, a Bright Eyes and Bon Iver comparison, authenticity, pedal steel, funk, is this record an end point?, “There’s a Rhythm,” I’ll go put the Paaaaathfinder on waltz, memorable moments on Bon Iver songs, Mk.gee/Dijon, screen time, soccer, baseball, and Sorry—his new magazine about Toronto. INTERVIEW WITH JIM-E STACK: patreon.com/afterthedeluge--Alex: @alexrobertross⁠https://www.alexrobertross.com/⁠⁠https://nocommentary.substack.com/⁠⁠https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/bon-iver-sable-fable/Justin: @routinelayup delugepodcast.com delugepodcast@gmail.com

Chris Messina co-produced the Bon Iver records 22, a Million and I,i, among dozens more by other artists. This is a bonus of sorts before we finish up at SABLE, fABLE. Chris and I casually talk about records made on unconventional instruments, exaggerated narratives around 22, a Million, turning April Base into a proper studio, living in Eau Claire for nine years, using gear incorrectly, adapting these kinds of songs live, big-ass headphones, finishing a record in Texas, a quick pop-punk diversion, and more. https://www.messinachris.com/patreon.com/afterthedelugeinstagram.com/routinelayup

Avery Adams is a producer, musician, and chef, and Kevin W. Smith is a writer and radio host. We talk about Bon Iver’s fourth album, I,i (Jagjaguar), released on August 9, 2019, an 8.8 Best New Music on Pitchfork. Also: Music writing circa 2007, For Emma vinyl sales, Vernon's non-falsetto register, Naeem drums, sliding on cardboard, no click, Texas, Hornsby, Beck, this album's got moments, “Hey, Ma,” bass lines, an Aaron Rogers/Justin Vernon interview circa 2019, The Bee Gees, where this album stands against the discography, Radiohead, Animal Collective, Of Montreal, and indulging creative impulses. FULL EPISODE W/ PRODUCER CHRIS MESSINA ON PATREONAVERY matiakitchen.com instagram.com/rarebirdcommittee/instagram.com/realfreaque/https://www.instagram.com/nautilusenclave/KEVINhttps://kmre.org/island-time/https://keviniswriting.com/

Ian Grant is the host of the Jokermen podcast. We discuss Bon Iver's 2016 record 22, a Million (Jagjaguar). After dipping into the 9.0 Pitchfork review, we talk about a For Emma sunrise show at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery, having his mind blown by this record in impact (and me ignoring it) in 2016, that year's prez election, the OP-1 synth, “It might be over soon,” Kanye briefly, Stevie Nicks singing “Wild Heart," listening Radiohead and Bon Iver while flying, “Staying at the Ace Hotel,” don’t trust Spot*fy lyrics, “the days have no numbers,” saying these song titles out loud, Taylor in C0vid, and Jokermen's Beach Boys journey.THIS SHOW ON PATREONMe:⁠x.com/routinelayup⁠bsky.app/profile/routinelayup.bsky.social⁠Ian:https://bsky.app/profile/ianjgrant.comx.com/JokermenPodcastinstagram.com/jokermenpodcast

Mark Richardson is former Editor in Chief at Pitchfork and current Rock and Pop Critic at the Wall Street Journal. We talk about the 2011 album Bon Iver, Bon Iver, for which Mark wrote the Pitchfork review (9.5). We talk about the anticipation around this record, fusing adult-contemporary and the avant-garde, Animal Collective, Bonnie Raitt, 80s R&B, sincerity vs. irony, is this “sad” music?, a careful use of arrangement and dynamics, Heath Ledger, Shakespearian verse, “Holocene,” the albums’ sequencing, the midwestern-ness of it all, Kanye West, commas in the album titles, Rubber Soul/Revolver, we bow down to “Beth/Rest,” a bit of SABLE, fABLE, and Mark tells a story about how this record could have gotten a 10. Me:⁠x.com/routinelayup⁠bsky.app/profile/routinelayup.bsky.social⁠Mark:x.com/MarkRichardsonbsky.app/profile/markrichardson.bsky.socialhttps://markrichardson.org/

Chris DeVille is Managing Editor at Stereogum and author of the book Such Great Heights, available for preorder now. We talk about the 2007 Bon Iver debut album, For Emma, Forever Ago. Also going cabin-mode in the Wisconsin winter, this album's lore, the indie landscape in '08, Pitchfork kingmaking, The OC, Garden State, Popt*mism, gentrifying indie music, hearing "Skinny Love" at my bad recession-era office job, "Flume" as a thesis, stacking falsetto harmonies, the lyrics, staring out windows at crows, Sable, bass-fishing boats, "Re: Stacks" and final tracks, cooking with minimal ingredients, Blood Bank EP, the pursuit of hipness and the evolution of indie rock. Order Chris's book.Blood Bank EP episode is live now on Patreon: patreon.com/afterthedeluge--Justin: x.com/routinelayup / routinelayup.bsky.socialChris: x.com/chrisdeville / chrisdeville.bsky.social/

Season 4 of After the Deluge will go album by album through the Bon Iver discography with a new guest on each episode, starting in the cabin with For Emma, Forever Ago and going in all kinds of directions from there. Subscribe an tell a friend. Support the show, get a zine. For Emma episode is live now: patreon.com/afterthedeluge--@routinelayup

Steven Hyden is a writer and podcaster whose new book, There Was Nothing You Could Do, is out now. We talk about the Patio Hall of Fame, why he’s a terrible DJ, vinyl is for suckers, music hits different on the patio, Skynyrd vs. Neil Young, Steve picks the most patio-friendly Radiohead and Pearl Jam records, how he writes so damn much, small-town newspapers, a Mr. Miyagi analogy we can all learn from, “liking Nebraska but not Bruce Springsteen” is a whole type of guy (aka me), Jackson Browne (mark your Bingo card), LA vs. NY mindset, are politicians still playing Born in the USA?, early 90s vs late 90s, Shania Twain, heartland rock, and is Sublime good or do they stink? x.com/routinelayup x.com/Steven_Hyden Buy Steven's Book After the Deluge Patreon

Miranda Reinert is a writer, podcaster and zine maker. We talk about making a full-on magazine, Jimmy Montague/Taking Meds, getting ideas out of your head and into the world, The End of Merch?, your double-knee Carhartts are a social signifier, creating something that lasts, tangibility, Grace Robins-Somerville on Hole’s Live Through This, what are you communicating when you post your Last.fm 4x4s and 5x5s?, Miranda’s favorite hockey team, we debut a new segment, The New York Rangers are cringe, The Tampa Bay sports teams can’t fill their stadiums and neither can The Black Keys, we ideate on a Cruise Concert that would kill, and a peek inside of Portable Model, Issue One.  - x.com/routinelayup - x.com/mirandareinert -- - twoflatpress.com/ - aplan.fyi/about/ - x.com/EndlessScroll_

Do artists get worse with age or can they get more interesting? Behold the Jokermen Mindset. Ian and Evan of the Jokermen podcast and I talk about approaching music with an empty head, Dylan’s Philosophy of Modern Song, when artists DO just get shittier with age, Albini & Steely Dan, what song would a group of Canadian bachelor party bros sing together over a cliffside?, “mid TV” and boring art, Hackney Diamonds, Steven Hyden, Fountain of Sorrow, Gawker, and the Jackson Browne/Warren Zevon bond. The current season of Jokermen is about The Beach Boys. It's beautiful, go listen.  patreon.com/afterthedeluge x.com/routinelayup x.com/jokermenpodcast

Laura Jane Grace is the songwriter behind Against Me! We discuss meaningless songs, the 7-hour Beatles documentary, she quit horoscopes, big life changes, Travis Barker on Rick Rubin, Operation Ivy reunion vs. Fugazi reunion, hoarding guitars, “Fit But You Know It” by The Streets, Butch Vig gave Laura homework, Franz Ferdinand-core, bitching about the music industry in song, Laura’s favorite Nirvana album, Steve Albini, Tom Petty, naiveté + inexperience + ambition + hard work = good, morning-pages, Yoga with Adriene, Steak Mtn as a pen-pal, Birds Talk Too, touching grass, George Harrison, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Dysphoria Hoodie, not thinking about gender, Lay’s potato chips and Billy Corgan, shredding her voice, relapsing on coffee, movies stink now, plus the current and future state of Against Me! Laura's new solo record, ⁠Hole in My Head⁠, is out now. Reach me at delugepodcast@gmail.comGET THE FULL AGAINST ME! SEASON ON PATREON + GET A ZINE

This one's not like the others. It's four pals in a room doing an Against Me! song draft while drinking Rainiers and eating junk. It's dumb and wonderful and only on Patreon: AGAINST ME!--Guests: Ryan Page, RJ Myers, Matt Helms, Justin Cox (me)

Jordan Kleeman started Crasshole Records as a teenager and put out several early Against Me! EPs including this legendary self-titled 12” record. We talk about the first version of “Walking is Still Honest,” why this beautiful record sounds like shit, a decade of touring with Against Me!, and holding down that synth-key note on “8 Hours of Full Sleep.” Just a wonderful person and a perfect boomerang back to the beginning of this band’s story. Reach me at delugepodcast@gmail.comGET THE FULL AGAINST ME! SEASON ON P@TREON

GET THIS WHOLE EPISODE AND THE SERIES ON PATREONThanks for supporting the Against Me! series. I'm at delugepodcast@gmail.com--twitter.com/routinelayupinstagram.com/routinelayup

Casey Plett is an author from Canada. We talk about coming out in a Rolling Stone article, dissecting The Ocean, seeing Against Me! In Winnipeg on the Transgender Dysphoria Blues tour, low-key gesturing back to Reinventing Axl Rose w/ those first snare hits, the novel “Nevada” by Imogen Binnie, “Rough surf on the coast, I wish I could have spent the whole day alone,” misinterpreting the message of Fight Club, which of these songs are first-person?, pressure on trans artists to be positive and peppy, dead friends, “Black Me Out,” 10 years ago compared to now, the pre-backlash liminal space that this album was born into, poetic contemplation of mosh pits, Laura looked so happy in Winnipeg, ETC! Reach me at delugepodcast@gmail.comMORE EPISODES AND AN AGAINST ME! ZINECasey Plett's journal

Steak Mtn (Christopher Norris) did the art for several Against Me! records including this one. We talk about the album White Crosses, the revolution being a lie, collaborating on art with Laura, Christopher's not a fan of anarcho-bucket music, getting that Warner Bros. money, this album has sheen but it also has teeth, the iconic Transgender Dysphoria Blues meat-cube album cover, scanning porn magazines and melting them in Photoshop, major-label tinkering, Laura being a teenage anarchist, The Ocean is an Against Me! song from the future, White Crosses is not pop-punk; it’s pop-rock, more Florida talk, Robert McNamara’s son is a farmer and I interviewed him once, Christopher sat on a flight with the manager who was suing the band, writing a book is hard, and he’s not an artist nor is he an author, but he did design this record cover and you can buy his novel, The Holy Day, now. Email the show at delugepodcast@gmail.com LISTEN TO AND SUPPORT THE AGAINST ME! SERIESsteakmtn.comhttps://www.rosebooks.co/

Keegan Bradford (⁠@franziamom⁠) plays in Camp Trash and writes about music online. We talk about Against Me!’s Searching for a Former Clarity, folk-punk being out of fashion, Algernon Cadwallader as a fictional band, hostile fanbases, Florida geography and scene dynamics, the best record ever about arguing on the internet, AM!’s miserable ascent, Laura breaks out the band's financials, Former Clarity is bloated but we struggle to tighten it, Miami, tiny font and Fat Mike, antagonizing the fans, Condoleeeeza, mid-2000s Franz Ferdinand-core, Problems with everything, confessing childhood secrets, the jean-jacket patch version of a Live Laugh Love sign, John K. Samson, Justin's dead, the band sounds exhausted but there is joy in every possibility.  THE AGAINST ME! SERIES IS ON P@TREON AND YOU GET A ZINE IF YOU SUB- x.com/franziamom (Keegan)- https://camptrash.bandcamp.com (Camp Trash) - x.com/routinelayup (Justin)

This week we go to the movies. I'm joined by Dan Bassini and Andrew Valentine of the Run into the Ground podcast to talk about the 2004 Against Me! tour documentary We're Never Going Home, which sees the band getting courted by major labels and fucking with their fellow touring bands. Plus Asbury Park, depressing East Coast beaches, and iconic venue carpets. It's a fun one. [WATCH VIDEO OF THIS EPISODE]FULL AGAINST ME! SERIES ON PATREONWatch the doc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VYHM_4-H2s