Attribution with Bob McKinnon

Richard D. Kahlenberg is an education and housing policy researcher, writer, consultant, and speaker. He is also Director of Housing Policy and Director of the American Identity Project at the Progressive Policy Institute. The author or editor of 19 books, his latest is Class Matters: The Fight to Get Beyond Race Preferences, Reduce Inequality, and Build Real Diversity at America's Colleges. This was a deep and challenging conversation about class, race, higher education, affirmative action and social mobility. Richard Kahlenberg Class Matters Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Adam Chandler is a journalist whose work has appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Esquire, and elsewhere. We talked about his most recent book 99% Perspiration: A New Working History of the American Way of Life. This was a fascinating and myth-busting conversation about the value work plays in our life. Adam Chandler 99% Perspiration Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Jennifer B. Wallace is an award-winning journalist and author of Never Enough: When Achievement Culture Becomes Toxic – and What We Can Do About It. She is also founder of The Mattering Institute, whose mission is to create cultures of mattering in homes, workplaces, and communities. This was a truly eye-opening conversation that I hope you find of value. Jennifer B. Wallace Never Enough Mattering Institute Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Katherine May is an internationally renowned writer, podcaster and speaker whose work touches on nature, spirituality, slow living and neurodivergence. Her hybrid memoir Wintering was a global bestseller, adapted as BBC Radio 4’s Book of the Week, and shortlisted for the Porchlight and Barnes & Noble Book of the Year. Her most recent title, Enchantment became an instant New York Times bestseller. We talked about slowing down, Wintering and her most recent book. Enchantment. It was a conversation filled with wonder. I hope you find it as restorative as I did. Katherine May Wintering Enchantment How We Live Now The Clearing Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

I was thrilled to take part in the launch of the Social Mobility Lab at City College earlier this year. It is an idea that I have been working on for several years and am so grateful to have the opportunity to launch it within the Colin Powell School for Civic and Global Leadership. The purpose of the Lab is to learn what contributes to success in college and beyond and then translate that learning into actionable programs that can improve our students’ chances of a good life. The only reason to study social mobility is to make it a reality for more people. During the launch event, I moderated a panel with three incredible individuals who have “lived the dream.” Their vulnerability and courage in sharing the ups and downs of their climb was so moving and insightful. With their permission, we’re sharing their stories as a bonus episode of Attribution. Social Mobility Lab  Cristina Jimenez Moreta Elvin Garcia Dee Dee Mozeleski Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Rachel Perić is Executive Director of Welcoming America. Inspired by her family’s refugee story and by the worldwide movement of welcomers, Rachel works to create communities where all residents – including immigrants and refugees – can thrive and belong. We talked about her own personal journey, the important work of her organization and how we as a country are doing to live up to our ideals of welcoming. I hope you enjoy it.  Rachel Perić Welcoming America Welcoming Week Welcome Wagon program Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Jason Hehir who is a documentary filmmaker whose subjects have included cultural icons Andre the Giant, Michael Jordan and Elvis Presley among others. We talked about those films and his recent HBO series, Murder in Boston.  It was a far ranging conversation touching on topics ranging from race, reckoning with our past and what makes for a successful life. I hope you enjoy it.  Jason Hehir Andre the Giant The Last Dance Murder in Boston Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Mark R. Rank is recognized as a foremost expert on issues of poverty, inequality and social justice.  To date he has written 10 books on a range of subjects, including an exploration of the American Dream and  a new understanding of poverty and inequality. In this episode, I talk to Mark about his latest book, The Random Factor which looks at the role of luck and chance in shaping the course of our lives.  It was a fascinating discussion, one I was lucky to have. I I hope you enjoy.  Mark R. Rank The Random Factor Poverty Risk Calculator Your American Dream Score Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Brittany Means is author of the critically acclaimed memoir, “Hell if We Don’t Change Our Ways”. Reviews have called it “gut-wrenching and triumphant.” “Readable and rigorous.”  “Brutal and beautiful.’  At its heart, it is a book about family. as Means recounts her complex relationships with her mother, father, brother, and grandparents and eventual guardians. What does it mean when those closest to us hurt us? Is understanding or forgiveness even possible?  How do children make it through it all to find support and love?  This was a particularly moving discussion.  I hope you find it of value.  Links to learn more about:  Brittany Means Hell if We Don’t Change Our Ways Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

In communities across the country, including New York, library budgets and hours are being cut, just at a time when society needs them most. This is in spite of the incredible success that libraries have in bringing people, particularly older adults, together.  Bob McKinnon, host of the podcast, Attribution talks with Eric Klinenberg, NYU sociologist and author of “Palace for the People” which examines the role that third places like libraries play in avoiding isolation. We’ll also hear from four Long Island librarians who are creating innovative programs for older adults that reduce isolation and build belonging. For more information, please visit: Palaces For The People: How Social Infrastructure Can Help Fight Inequality, Polarization, And The Decline Of Civic Life Eric Klinenberg Suffolk Cooperative Library System Brentwood Public Library Middle Country Public Library Riverhead Free Library Patchogue-Medford Library Libraries of Belonging  is a WLIW-FM special program that is part of the “Aging Together in New York” initiative from public media stations focusing on social isolation and loneliness among older adults. This program is funded by the New York State Education Department. HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.  

It is the simplest of tools designed to help us tackle the complexities of life. It helps reduce errors, remember what’s important, assess and reflect on what and how we’re doing. Pilots, astronauts, builders and surgeons use them to save lives. What is this elementary yet powerful tool?  A checklist. Is it possible that a simple checklist could do for the growing issue of social isolation among older adults what previous versions have done for saving lives in surgery? Bob McKinnon, host of the podcast Attribution, talks to Sandy Markwood, CEO of US Aging, a national association representing and supporting the network of Area Agencies on Aging, and the organization behind the Social Isolation Self-Assessment Checklist to discuss the promise of this tool.  At the end of the episode, listeners will have the opportunity to self-assess as we review each of the questions on the checklist. For more information on The Checklist and the resources mentioned in this program, please visit: US Aging Eldercare Locator Social Isolation Self-Assessment Checklist The Checklist is a WLIW-FM special program that is part of the “Aging Together in New York” initiative from public media stations focusing on social isolation and loneliness among older adults. This program is funded by the New York State Education Department. HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Stephanie Land is the New York Times bestselling author of Maid: Hard Work, Low Pay, and a Mother’s Will to Survive which is now the inspiration for the Netflix series of the same name.  Her latest book, Class: A Memoir of Motherhood,  Hunger and Higher Education is out now. During our conversation we talked about the challenges and judgment that she and other single moms have faced simply trying to create a better future for themselves and their children. This was an important conversation that I hope will change the way we see and support single mothers. I hope you enjoy. Links to learn more about:  Stephanie Land Maid: Hard Work, Low Pay, and a Mother’s Will to Survive  Maid Netflix limited series   Class: A Memoir of Motherhood,  Hunger and Higher Education    Subscribe to Moving Up Mondays Substack Newsletter HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Christopher Zara is the News Editor at Fast Company.  His recent memoir, Uneducated, explores his unlikely journey into the newsroom without the credential of a college degree. During our conversation we talked about both his own story but also more broadly about the role of education - higher and otherwise - in creating opportunities to climb the proverbial ladder.  Links to learn more about:  Christopher Zara Uneducated: A Memoir of Flunking Out, Falling Apart and Finding My Worth Fast Company HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Singer/songwriter Joy Oladokun is a master storyteller whose songs have been listened to over forty million times. Her latest album, Proof of Life is being heralded as her breakthrough. We talked about her journey as an artist and her process of making music that “helps myself and others process this world.” Links to learn more about:  Joy Oladokun Proof of Life HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by NPR station, WLIW-FM. You can listen on WLIW.org/radio or on NPR One mobile app as well as other major podcast networks. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.  

Larissa FastHorse is a 2020 MacArthur Fellow, award winning writer/choreographer, and co-founder of Indigenous Direction, the nation’s leading consulting company for Indigenous arts and audiences. With her latest work, The Thanksgiving Play, she became the first native American to have her play on Broadway. We talked about her journey to Broadway and how we connect with our culture and each other. I hope you enjoy.  Links to learn more about:  Larissa FastHorse The Thanksgiving Play Indigenous Direction HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative from PBS flagship station, WNET in New York, reporting on poverty, justice, and economic opportunity in America. You can learn more at pbs.org/chasingthedream. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis.

Dr. Robert Waldinger, is clinical professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and Director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development. He is a practicing psychiatrist and psychoanalyst and also a Zen priest. We discussed his book The Good Life, co-authored with Marc Schulz, the central role of relationships in our life and what can undermine our ability to be socially fit. The conversation will challenge how and with whom you spend your time. I hope you enjoy.  Links to learn more about:  Robert Waldinger The Good Life Harvard Study on Adult Development Find out more: https://movingupusa.com/podcast  HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative from PBS flagship station, WNET in New York, reporting on poverty, justice, and economic opportunity in America. You can learn more at pbs.org/chasingthedream. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

This bonus episode of Attribution, ‘Seeing Erin Hagerty’, was originally broadcast as a WLIW-FM special program and a part of Chasing the Dream: Poverty, Justice and Opportunity in America, a public media reporting initiative from The WNET Group. Erin Hagerty died last year at the age of 62. By most counts she lived an extraordinary life -  simply by doing things many would consider ordinary. This is an examination not of what she did but how she was seen. By strangers, her family and most importantly how she saw herself. “Seeing Erin Hagerty” is a WLIW-FM special program and a part of Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative The WNET Group, reporting on Poverty, Justice and Opportunity in America.  Bob McKinnon, host of the podcast Attribution, talks with Erin’s mother, her four siblings and documentary filmmaker and activist Dan Habib.  Our hope for the next thirty minutes is that you simply see Erin for who she was. Perhaps it will change how you see others too. Links to learn more about: WLIW-FM Dan Habib Find out more: https://movingupusa.com/podcast  HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative from PBS flagship station, WNET in New York, reporting on poverty, justice, and economic opportunity in America. You can learn more at pbs.org/chasingthedream. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Richard Buery is CEO of Robin Hood, one of the nation’s leading anti-poverty organizations. Prior to this role, Rich had worked as Deputy Mayor of New York, where he was the key architect for the city’s Pre-K for All initiative. In our conversation, we talked about the many ways in which his work has attempted to alleviate scarcity by leveraging the abundant resources around us and his own background has informed his approach to service. I hope you enjoy. Links to learn more about:  Richard Buery Robin Hood Foundation iMentor Pre-K for All Find out more: https://movingupusa.com/podcast  HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative from PBS flagship station, WNET in New York, reporting on poverty, justice, and economic opportunity in America. You can learn more at pbs.org/chasingthedream. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

For the last thirty years, Dr. Deepak Chopra  has been at the forefront of the meditation revolution.  His 93rd book, Living in the Light  written with Sarah Platt-Fingerwith. taps into the ancient Indian practice of Royal Yoga and offers an illuminating program for self-realization, bliss, and wholeness. TIME magazine has described Dr. Chopra as “one of their top 100 most influential people.”  In our conversation we talk about this juxtaposition of “being vs. doing”, our journeys to self-realization and what it means to live in the light. While we discussed some heady stuff, it was a free-flowing and down to earth conversation. One I hope you find enlightening. Links to learn more about:  Deepak Chopra Living in the Light Find out more: https://movingupusa.com/podcast  HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative from PBS flagship station, WNET in New York, reporting on poverty, justice, and economic opportunity in America. You can learn more at pbs.org/chasingthedream. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.

Brandon Ogbunu is Assistant Professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology. While his research takes place at the intersection of evolutionary biology, genetics, and epidemiology, it all as he says stems from his own biography.His writing appears not just in academic journals but for Wired, The Atlantic and ESPN among other places. This was a deep and far reaching conversation about the intersection of science, identity and the questions we are driven to explore Links to learn more about:  Brandon Ogbunu The Liberation of RNA - Radio Lab The Hidden Meanings of Gattaca - 25 Years Later Find out more: https://movingupusa.com/podcast  HOST Bob McKinnon is a writer, designer, and teacher who asks us to reconsider the way we see success and the American Dream.  His work has been featured in the New York Times, Boston Globe, Fast Company, NPR, and PBS. His own journey out of poverty was captured in his TEDx talk: How Did I End Up Here. Through his writing and this podcast, he hopes to pay tribute and thanks to all those who have helped him and others move up in life. CREDITS Attribution is distributed in part by Chasing the Dream, a public media initiative from PBS flagship station, WNET in New York, reporting on poverty, justice, and economic opportunity in America. You can learn more at pbs.org/chasingthedream. This show was edited by No Troublemakers Media. Music by Jonnie “Most” Davis. Our final credit goes to you, the listener, and to everyone who helped you get to where you are today. If this show has reminded you of someone in particular, make their day and let them know.