Black Oxygen

Jodie Pope leads the Gateway to College program at Madison College, which serves students on the verge of leaving high school, or who already have. This week, Angela sits down with her to talk about what changes when you build an educational space around being seen instead of sorted. The conversation moves from the practical to the profound: why relational trust is the whole game, how our schools became so transactional, and what it means that "half of our players aren't in the game." Jodie is disarmingly honest about her first day running the program, about parenting a teenager, and about the day she interviewed a biracial 17-year-old at her own former high school and found herself talking to a younger version of herself. What she got to tell that student, she says, was life-changing for both of them. This season of Black Oxygen is about community and collective care as resistance — and Jodie is learning, in real time, to receive the community she's spent a lifetime giving to others. #BlackOxygenPodcast #BlackOxygen #BlackInWisconsin #BlackPodcasters #MadisonCollege 

This season of Black Oxygen is about care and collective care — and this conversation is a candid look at what it actually costs, and takes, to lead as a Black person in a city like Madison. Angela sits down with Reverend Dr. Alex Gee, who has raised roughly $70 million over 30 years, built multiple organizations, and is still, in his words, only ever invited onto the "Community Relations" committee — never Finance, never HR, never the chair. Alex traces his leadership back to his mother, Verlene Gee, a single mom and pioneering social worker who taught him to advocate boldly, hold boundaries, and never fear telling the truth. From there, the conversation moves through the specific weight of being labeled a "Black leader" instead of simply a leader, the discipline of "protecting his ears to protect his voice," the unspoken tensions Black leaders navigate in majority-white institutions, and how all of it shaped his vision for the Center for Black Excellence and Culture — a space built from 700 community voices, designed to let Black leaders and residents finally feel at home in Madison. In This Episode 00:00 — Welcome and introduction of Reverend Dr. Alex Gee 00:35 — What brought Alex to Wisconsin and what keeps him here — his mother's 1970 move to Madison and enrollment in UW's brand-new African American Studies Department, the root of the family's roots in the city 07:10 — Leadership lessons from caregiving: becoming his mother's advocate, learning to say "no" to doctors, and the boundaries that let him lead at home and at work 14:30 — What his mother, a pioneering social worker, modeled about community leadership — advocacy, boldness, and going "to the mat" for people with no one else in their corner 20:56 — Finding and keeping his own voice, and the 1983 UW classroom moment when his mother challenged a professor on white privilege in front of his classmates 28:06 — Being a Black leader in Madison, unpacked: raising $70 million and never once being asked to serve on a finance, HR, or budget committee — only "Community Relations"; the decision to call himself "a leader who's Black" instead of a "Black leader" 31:00 — Protecting his ears to protect his voice: on being called a slur by someone in his own community, and choosing not to let outside noise dictate his focus 33:00 — Criticism as a signal, not a setback — why pushback from both Black and white Madisonians is often proof a leader is doing something new 35:00 — The double duty of "super leadership": a decade spent building pathways for non-Black allies through Justified Anger, and why he's now turning his focus toward strengthening the Black community directly 37:00 — Naming the unspoken dynamics — including tensions with white women in leadership — that Madison rarely discusses openly, and why he says it's "killing Black people" 38:07 — The origin story of the Center for Black Excellence and Culture — a childhood dream, 700 community listening-session voices, and building something that isn't a museum or a cultural center but a place to belong 48:13 — Alex's 10-year vision: recruiting and retaining Black professionals as an economic strategy for the whole region, and the question he's asked funders since 2000 that no one has ever been able to answer 59:35 — What's on the Center's playlist (and what's — or isn't — on Alex's) 1:01:45 — Where to learn more and how to get involved Leadership Takeaways Redefine the label before it defines you. Alex chose to describe himself as "a leader who's Black" rather than a "Black leader" — a shift that broadened what rooms and questions he had access to. Protect your ears to protect your voice. He deliberately limits how much criticism and noise he takes in, so it doesn't erode his ability to lead clearly. Treat criticism as a signal. Pushback, in his experience, often means you're doing something new enough to matter — not that you're doing something wrong. Build your own tables. After decades of being kept off finance and budget committees, Alex stopped waiting for a seat and built the Center for Black Excellence and Culture instead. Name what's unspoken. He points directly at dynamics — like tokenism on nonprofit boards, or unresolved tension between Black professionals and white supervisors — that many leaders privately navigate but rarely say out loud.

Content note: police violence, domestic violence, incarceration, and substance use. In the days after Corey Ruiz was killed by Madison police on Williamson Street, Angela sits down with Carmella Glenn, Alder for District 18. Carmella traces her path into criminal justice reform — a family cycled through the correctional system, years spent working inside the walls herself — and makes the case for civilian oversight as the thing our city can't afford to get wrong. She breaks down what the Office of the Independent Police Monitor actually does, why Madison's has struggled to gain traction, and how monitors elsewhere have driven measurable change — in Denver, a monitor-driven use-of-force policy cut incidents 21% over 20 months. She's honest about the trauma carried on every side, officers included, and shares a moment that stopped her cold: on day 25 of her own oversight education campaign, she came face to face with a former detective she'd once testified against. Her throughline — healing won't come from a single leader or a single fix. It comes from a community equipped to hold every level of government accountable, and from the harder work of undoing what we've inherited, not just reforming it.

This episode of Black Oxygen is a recording of Black Oxygen Live featuring Milwaukee-based artist Kierston Ghaznavi.  Born in Arkansas raised in Milwaukee, Kierston has been doing art most of her life. In conversation with Angela, Kierston talks about her history of making paper dolls, going to school for graphic design but realizing she doesn't want to design for other people, and AI and art. Of AI and art Kierston states, "AI focuses on the outcome of the piece as opposed to the process itself."  #BlackOxygenPodcast #BlackPodcasters #WisconsinArtists #BlackArtists#BlackInMadison #BlackInWisconsin #414 #WisconsinWomen For more about Kierston:  https://www.keghaznavi.com/about

Content note: This episode includes discussion of domestic violence and abuse. Please listen with care. If you or someone you know needs support, the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-7233 or thehotline.org. When Keena Atkinson joined Black Oxygen last year, she knew the conversation wasn't finished — and she knew exactly who needed to be part of what came next: her mother. In this episode, Keena returns alongside Gaylene Barber-Sirmons, making her podcast debut at nearly 70 years old, and together they open up a conversation about survival, faith, healing, and the kind of mother-daughter relationship that gets rebuilt, not inherited. Gaylene shares her Wisconsin story — how she came to Madison in the late 1990s while escaping an abusive marriage, working weekdays in IT and driving back to the Quad Cities every weekend to be with her daughters until she could bring them home. She recounts the night she left for good: a prayer in a quiet bedroom, a voice telling her to go now, a hotel clerk who asked no questions, and $500 she didn't know she had — money her own mother had been quietly setting aside because she knew her daughter would need it one day. Keena reflects on witnessing her mother's strength as a child, on leaving her own abusive relationship years later, and on what it took for the two of them to build the honest, unshakeable bond they share today. As she puts it, their relationship wasn't handed to them — they burned it down and rebuilt it, together, more than once. In a season devoted to collective care, this conversation is a living example of it: care that starts at home, shows up consistently, and passes strength between generations in both directions. In this episode: Gaylene's journey from the Quad Cities to Madison, and the year of weekend drives that reunited her family The night she left: faith, obedience, and a path that cleared itself How a credit union, a hotel clerk, a lifelong best friend, and a praying mother formed a web of quiet community care Keena on leadership that begins at home — and a mother whose mind, once set, has never missed Healing after abuse: independence, scripture, and refusing to disappear Rebuilding a mother-daughter relationship from the ground up Decentering men, contentment in singleness, and joy on your own terms Two generations of Black women teaching wellness in Madison — groove, dance fitness, yoga, and "preventing preventable prognoses" On community care, from Gaylene: "Community care is… not that one-time help. It's consistent help, showing up, checking in… You never know when someone is struggling quietly." Connect with the guests: Gaylene teaches Groove classes at MSCR (Thursdays, 12:00 PM) and Princeton Club East (Fridays, 11:10 AM), and is available for private group sessions of five or more. (Times to be confirmed) Keena's classes and annual August wellness retreat: roujiewellness.com (sign up for the monthly newsletter) or follow her on Facebook at Keena StayFly Atkinson and on Instagram