Buy the Numbers

If you’ve ever thought, “I’ll sell when I’m ready”—you’re already behind. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with three powerhouse advisors from CLA—Erin Mickels (owner transition expert), Mike Britten (tax wizard), and Mike Pohl (wealth whisperer)—to unpack what it really takes to set yourself up for a successful exit from your manufacturing business. We talk through the overlooked planning window between “someday I’ll sell” and “it’s time to list.” Whether you're ten years out or just three, this conversation will help you shift your mindset from just growing revenue to building transferable value. Because a higher top line doesn't always mean a bigger payday—and once you understand the levers that actually impact valuation, you can start pulling them now. We also hit some real talk about what happens after the wire hits your account. What are your personal goals? How much do you actually need to retire, launch your next thing, or leave a legacy? And how can you avoid giving too much to the IRS—or your kids, if that’s your preference? Bottom line: The best exits aren’t lucky. They’re engineered. And if you want to stack the odds in your favor, this episode will show you where to start.  You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:12) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA (1:20) Meet the guests: CLA’s experts in wealth, tax, and transition (4:03) Start with the end in mind: How much do you really need to walk away? (8:10) Why personal financial clarity should come before valuation (11:37) Bridging the gap between what your business is worth and what you need (14:10) Growing value ≠ growing revenue—what actually drives multiples (15:32) The buyer’s perspective: asset sales, stock sales, and tax surprises (17:44) Market timing matters: Don't let ego miss the window (19:37) Check out Verdant Commercial Capital to get a true partner in your corner (20:17) Why it's normal to feel overwhelmed—and how to build the right team (22:30) The critical three-year window: Your numbers matter more than ever (27:00) From handwritten notes to a valuation nightmare (28:10) Here's why you need quality audited/reviewed financials (31:25) Quality of earnings reports: Not just validation, but storytelling (32:43) Building buyer confidence with customer profiles and payment history (35:24) Don’t ignore risk: succession, estate planning, and key-person exposure (38:10) Tax landmines: personal expenses, nexus issues, and employee bonuses (41:42) Top Shops 2025 preview—join us in Charlotte! Resources & People Mentioned Grow your top and bottom line with CLA Check out Verdant Commercial Capital to get a true partner in your corner Top Shops 2025 preview—join us in Charlotte! Connect with CLA Connect with Erin Mickels, CPA Connect with Mike Britten Connect with Michael Pohl, CPA, CFP® Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify

When I first heard about the “One Big Beautiful Bill,” I knew we had to break it down for the MakingChips audience. This isn’t just another tax update—it’s a massive, 900-page piece of legislation with real implications for manufacturers like us. Whether you're thinking about buying equipment, expanding your facility, hiring more people, or selling your business down the road, the OBBB touches nearly every part of the decision-making process. That’s why I called up my friends at CLA—Susan Roberts and Steve Combs—two tax pros who spend every day helping manufacturers figure out what’s changing, what’s staying the same, and what you need to do now. In this episode, we sort through what’s “informational” and what’s “actionable”—so you can stop guessing and start planning. We talk about everything from the return of 100% bonus depreciation, to how you can now expense R&D costs again (finally), to smart moves around entity selection and estate planning. There’s even a little salt cap drama in there. If you want to get ahead before year-end—or avoid getting caught off guard—this episode’s for you. Let’s get into it and talk about how this “big, beautiful” bill can work for you… not against you. Segments (0:18) Grow your top and bottom-line with CLA (1:33) Learn more about Susan Roberts and Steve Combs (4:05) What’s “informational” vs. “actionable” in the bill (7:42) Bonus depreciation is back—100% write-offs retroactive to Jan 19, 2025 (10:01) How cost segregation studies unlock more depreciation for recent building purchases (12:20) Why you shouldn’t buy machines just for the deduction (13:45) QBI deduction (20%) made permanent (and what that means) (17:48) Entity selection: Is it time to consider a C Corp? (19:30) R&D can now be fully expensed—unlocking credits, cash flow, and retroactive deductions for everyday shop work (27:37) Why you should listen to Buy the Numbers (30:17) Interest expense deductions get easier for manufacturers in 2025 (32:00) Limitations on capitalizing interest into inventory coming in 2026 (33:21) Individual tax deductions: SALT cap increased from $10K to $40K (with phaseout) (38:02) Why PTET (pass-through entity tax) strategies still matter (40:39) Advanced manufacturing credit for semiconductors increased from 20% to 35% (42:09) Clarifying that buying tax credits is still an option for large C Corps (46:55) Estate exemption increased to $15M and indexed for inflation (48:02) Opportunity Zone deferral extended—now with rolling 10-year plan (50:10) Low-hanging fruit for 2025: R&D recapture, bonus depreciation, cost seg studies (53:40) The risk of unintended consequences without a tax advisor (55:01) Final verdict: Is the One Big Beautiful Bill actually beautiful for manufacturing? (1:01:16) Don’t get burned by recruiters who don’t understand manufacturing Resources mentioned on this episode CLA’s Website Susan Roberts - Susan.Roberts@CLAConnect.com Steve Combs - Steve.Combs@CLAConnect.com Tax Cuts and Jobs Act Manufacturing Grants Made Simple Hire MFG Leaders Connect With MakingChips www.MakingChips.com On Facebook On LinkedIn On Instagram On Twitter On YouTube

I’m halfway through the year and, like many of you, I feel as if it’s still February. Orders are steady but not spectacular, and every headline seems designed to keep shop owners awake at night. That’s why I invited my friend and financing partner Ty Willis back on Buy the Numbers—because cautious optimism only works if your cash flow can keep up with your ambitions. Ty funds machine tools every day, from three-spindle startups to $40 million fab shops, so he sees the real score behind the press releases. In this conversation we pull the veil off equipment financing: when to borrow, when to walk away, and how to keep your banker, your line of credit, and your future robots playing nicely together. We also unpack why a “slow-and-steady foundation” beats any shiny new five-axis—unless that five-axis comes with the cash-flow runway to feed it. You’ll hear Ty’s three phases of lending wisdom, my own war stories of growing Hill Manufacturing (including a 24-spindle acquisition we’re closing in two weeks), and a practical playbook for calling your shot six months before you sign a PO. We even run a lightning round on interest rates, Section 179, and whether the latest “no payments for six months” gimmick is really a deal. If you’re tired of financing offers that treat every shop the same—or tired of hearing “rates are too high, maybe next year”—this episode gives you the numbers, questions, and mindset to finance growth without betting the farm.  You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Ty’s “run lean first” mantra and why slow & steady wins the race (0:25) Check out Verdant Commercial Capital to gain a partner in your corner (1:30) Ty’s path from tech to ten years in independent equipment finance (4:53) Job shops are softer, DOD/aerospace is humming, and diversification is critical (10:09) Using cash flow as the real growth lever; the 24-spindle acquisition example (11:49) Ty’s three phases of lending maturity (valuing consultative restraint over volume) (17:36) Case study: consolidating eight lenders into one partner to free a CFO’s week (22:33) Automation financing myths—why cobots and AGVs often outlive spindles and deserve funding (26:40) Sign up for updates about Modern Machine Shop’s Top Shops 2025 (27:04) Breathing new life into 15-year-old machines with robots, bar feeders, better workholding (29:52) Pre-qualification and “calling your shot” before IMTS or FABTECH (33:27) South-Dakota-to-Florida move: financing a $500K 5-axis and hidden relocation costs (37:41) Chicago fab/machine shop’s methodical growth with bargain used five-axis machines (41:42) Ty’s four-step engagement playbook: 20-minute call, one-page soft-pull app, roadmap, relationship (44:19) Lightning round: rates, imperfect books, Section 179 reality, deferred-payment traps (55:28) Why you need to listen to the Lights Out podcast Resources & People Mentioned Smart Money Moves: Equipment Financing Tips with Ty Willis, Ep #5 The Cashflow Advantage: Why the Right Banker Makes All the Difference, Ep #6 Banking Secrets for Manufacturers: How to Secure the Cash You Need, Ep #12 Sign up for updates about Modern Machine Shop’s Top Shops 2025 Why we leverage the expertise of CliftonLarsonAllen Connect with Ty Willis Check out Verdant Commercial Capital to gain a partner in your corner Verdant Commercial Capital on LinkedIn Connect with Ty on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

What happens when a former MLB.com writer ends up leading marketing for one of the most complex machine tool portfolios in the country? You get a masterclass in translating business goals into real marketing ROI.  In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Jon Star—Director of Marketing at Methods Machine Tools—joins us for a conversation about data-driven marketing, building trust with job shops, and how to actually prove your impact in manufacturing. Jon shares his winding path from sports journalism to enterprise tech to metalworking, revealing how his background in internal communications and executive messaging taught him the metrics that matter.  He explains how marketing can (and should) directly support sales by understanding how the company makes money, building content around that mission, and tracking revenue—not just leads. We also dive into the real challenges job shops face when trying to diversify into new industries, and how methods like CRM implementation, service-first messaging, and persona-driven marketing help shops target the right customers with confidence.  Whether you're a machine tool distributor, job shop owner, or marketer trying to earn your seat at the executive table, this episode is packed with practical insights.  You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Welcome to Buy the Numbers—Nick finally makes his co-host debut (0:46) Stay tuned to learn more about Top Shops 2025! (1:54) Jon Star’s unexpected journey from baseball writing to industrial marketing (8:34) Knowing how your company makes money is the foundation of great marketing (12:04) Branded house vs. house of brands explained (14:22) Selling to small job shops vs. large enterprises (15:50) Why shop owners need to market differently based on business goals (17:05) Hill’s strategy for diversifying into new industries (19:04) How Methods supports diversification through engineering and service (22:25) Measuring marketing success and hitting the right customer pain points (27:51) Why a focus on service is the best sales strategy (29:25) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA (30:03) What we’ve learned from building empathy into our marketing (31:37) Jon’s first six months: Listening, shadowing, and learning from the field (35:05) Internal dashboards vs. “sicko spreadsheets”: Jon’s tracking habits (37:41) Mike’s CRM journey—when it’s finally time to scale (39:00) MQL vs. SQL: What they mean and why they matter (46:18) Attribution doesn’t have to be perfect—but it has to be useful (47:47) Sales, marketing, and product must operate as one flywheel (51:45) Why you need to talk to your long-standing customers (and team) (56:05) Don’t be afraid to start with something basic (1:05:35) How ProShop can help you achieve on-time delivery Resources & People Mentioned Marketing that Attracts Work Meaghan Ziemba on MakingSparks Connect with Guest Name Connect with Jon on LinkedIn JStart@MethodsMachine.com Methods Machine Methods on Instagram How ProShop can help you achieve on-time delivery Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

What if I told you that your accounting function could be your greatest weapon in the fight for better margins, smarter decisions, and stronger growth? Too often, we treat accounting like a chore—just another box to check, another invoice to send. But if you're serious about building a resilient, efficient, and scalable manufacturing business, then it's time to look at accounting as a strategic function. In this episode, I’m joined by three experts from CLA—Phil Hanke, Mary Strand, and David Mauch—who live and breathe operational accounting for manufacturers. We dig into how small to midsize shops can build better systems, forecast more effectively, and make real-time decisions rooted in good data (not gut feelings). We’re not talking about spreadsheets for the sake of spreadsheets. We’re talking about boots-on-the-floor insight, setting up your ERP and accounting tools the right way, and actually using the information you collect to improve margins, reduce waste, and grow confidently. From budgeting basics to cash cycle calculations, this episode is packed with practical takeaways. If your current financial reporting feels like a black box—or if your books are still being run by a well-meaning family member without formal training—you’ll want to lean in. Because accounting isn’t just about reconciling the past; it’s about owning your future.  You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Mike shares a personal success story about ROI from investing in ProShop ERP (0:20) Why I believe you need to invest in ProShop ERP (2:25) Introducing guests from CLA and why their work matters to manufacturers (5:04) The labor gap isn’t just on the floor—it’s in accounting and admin roles too (8:26) Mary defines “operational accounting” and why it starts on the shop floor (12:54) Steel toes and inventory flows: how to diagnose inefficiency at ground level (14:53) Budgeting isn’t optional—Mary breaks down how to start simple and get real (19:11) Why budgeting should be a living, breathing document (20:46) Phil walks through how to turn planning into performance KPIs (24:32) Gross margin, product-line profitability, and how to use your income statement (27:43) Working capital and cash cycles—don’t let your AR terms bury your business (29:55) Pricing strategy that accounts for your cost of capital (33:00) Stay tuned for more information about Top Shops 2025 (33:25) Frequency of financial monitoring—daily vs. monthly vs. quarterly (34:47) Predictive vs. lagging indicators and building a metrics dashboard (38:38) David explains how to collect actionable data without fancy tools (43:48) Connecting floor-level data to pricing, burden rates, and margins (47:22) How 5S and competition drive operator engagement in performance metrics (53:03) The danger of underutilizing your ERP or treating QuickBooks like a checkbook (56:00) Why financial statements should align with what’s happening on your floor (58:16) Low-hanging fruit you should focus on now (1:01:47) Check out the Machine Shop Mastery podcast Resources & People Mentioned Stay tuned for more information about Top Shops 2025 Machine Shop Mastery Connect with Mary, Phil, and David with CLA Mary Strand Phil Hanke David Mauch Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Most golfers obsess over their gear—but almost none of them build it. Jared Doerfler did. After playing college golf and spending years in sales, he found himself pulled back into the game he loved—but this time, through the lens of product creation. With zero machining experience, he quit his job, bought a beginner CNC mill, and decided to manufacture putters himself, from his garage. In this episode, we dive into how Jared taught himself CAD/CAM, figured out the physics behind great putter design, and slowly carved out a niche in a crowded marketplace. This wasn’t a white-label brand with flashy headcovers—it was a soul-first, steel-cut, full-stack operation. You’ll hear how golf gave Jared the idea, how family gave him the work ethic, and how sheer persistence turned that idea into a functioning business. From naming each model after towns tied to his grandfather to prototyping for months just to get the sound right, Jared’s approach to design and manufacturing is anything but casual. Whether you’re a golfer, a builder, or someone with a product idea burning in your brain, this episode is a masterclass in starting from zero—with nothing but curiosity, grit, and a love for the game. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:15) Stay tuned: Top Shops 2025 registration coming soon! (1:09) Jared explains how he transitioned from sales into self-taught CNC work (2:52) Jared’s family history in manufacturing and how that shaped his path (6:34) Discovering a niche product to design and manufacture himself (10:05) The decision to make the product in-house vs. outsourcing production (12:00) How MAESTRO can simplify inspection in automated processes (17:21) Jared explains why he started with a Tormach and how he upgraded (19:12) Teaching himself CAD/CAM, the CAM learning curve, and iterative machining (24:40) Jared’s first putter design and how aesthetics vs. precision played out (26:54) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (28:32) Naming each putter after towns tied to his grandfather (30:53) Going to market: Balancing performance with style (35:46) Manufacturing breakdown: 4 ops, soft jaws, materials, and finish choices (39:14) Challenges with scale, inventory vs. make-to-order, and a growing scrap pile (41:30) Diving into the finishing and the post-machining process (44:45) Entrepreneurship talk: bootstrapping, debt vs. investors, and capital priorities (46:37) Pricing strategy differences between product businesses and job shops (48:35) Advice for aspiring founders and a nod to the massive challenge of job shops (54:34) Why you need to subscribe to the Lights Out podcast Resources & People Mentioned Stay tuned: Top Shops 2025 registration coming soon! Grow your top and bottom line with CLA Toolpath CloudNC Connect with Jared Doerfler Hanna Golf Connect on LinkedIn Jared@HannaGolf.com Follow on Instagram and Twitter Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Most of us shop owners tend to keep compensation pretty simple: pay ourselves what the business can afford, pay our team what feels fair, and hope that keeps everyone happy. But I’ve learned over the years that this approach can quietly hurt the very business we’re trying to grow.  In this episode, I sit down with John Jones from Scissortail Executive Advisors to dig into how owner and executive compensation really works—and how getting strategic about it can lead to better retention, stronger tax positioning, and a more valuable business overall. John and I talk through why it’s critical to separate your roles as owner and operator, especially when setting your own salary. We also cover how small shops—yes, even with 10 or 12 employees—can make use of tools like 401(k)s and non-qualified retirement plans. These aren't just for big corporations. There’s a ton of flexibility and strategy available here that most folks just don’t realize. I’ve met a lot of great shop owners who take the bare minimum they need to survive and put everything else back into the business. That’s noble, but it’s not always the most efficient or rewarding way to structure things. John shares ways to keep your team happy, secure your own financial future, and still make sure the business has what it needs to grow. If you’ve never given much thought to how you compensate yourself—or how to build real retention plans for your team—this episode will open your eyes. You’ll walk away with practical tools, smarter strategies, and maybe even a little peace of mind. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Cold open on non-qualified plan flexibility (humorous examples) (0:26) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA (1:34) How Mike and John first connected over foster dogs (3:09) What John’s firm does and who they serve (5:21) Splitting owner vs. executive compensation (and why it matters) (11:28) Intro to 401(k)s and non-qualified plans as supplemental tools (13:27) Deep dive into non-qualified plans: flexibility, vesting, tax savings (18:44) Structuring benefits for a 12-person machine shop (23:40) Get ready for Top Shops 2025 in Charlotte, NC (24:05) Tax advantages of these plans for both owner and business (26:43) Discretionary contributions and plan flexibility year-to-year (33:09) Risks of non-qualified plans in the event of business failure (36:56) Costs and scalability of both 401(k) and non-qualified plans (39:40) Other areas owners should consider for employee retention (42:48 Phantom stock vs. profit sharing for retention and motivation (47:10) Final takeaways: tax planning, recruiting, and valuing employees  (52:54) Head on over and listen to the Machine Shop Mastery podcast  Resources & People Mentioned ERISA Guidelines Connect with John Jones Scissortail Executive Advisors Connect on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Most of us would never machine a part without checking the tolerances first — so why do so many shop owners sign off on financing agreements without understanding the performance “tolerances” our banks are quietly measuring us against?  In this episode of Buy the Numbers, commercial banker Danny O’Keefe returns to break down two terms that sound like dry legal jargon but carry real operational consequences: loan covenants and personal guarantees. If your shop relies on bank financing to grow, these aren't just details — they’re the guardrails shaping what we can do, and what could get us in trouble. Loan covenants aren’t just something we sign and forget. They’re the metrics banks use to judge whether our business is still a safe bet. From debt service coverage to balance sheet leverage and owner distributions, these numbers can quietly restrict how we grow, how we pay ourselves, and how much flexibility we have in tough times. If we’re not checking them ourselves when we close the books, we could be tripping violations without even knowing — and that’s a problem our lender won’t ignore. Then there’s the personal guarantee — something a lot of us sign with a shrug, not realizing what it really means. We dig into how it works, when it’s enforced, and why it's not usually about losing your house — it’s about staying accountable and engaged if the business hits rough waters. With real-world examples, Danny explains how guarantees play out in practice, how banks try to resolve issues, and why going dark is the worst move you can make. The biggest surprise for many: almost everything about your loan is negotiable — including the covenants and guarantees. But only if you understand your balance sheet, your bank’s priorities, and how to advocate for yourself. Whether you’re taking out your first note or renegotiating a renewal, this episode gives you the tools to treat your financing like a partnership, not a one-and-done transaction. By the end, you’ll walk away with a clearer view of your bank relationship — not just as a source of capital, but as a strategic tool. One that, when managed well, can protect you and your shop… and when ignored, can quietly start to chip away at your freedom to operate. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) What personal guarantees really mean—and why banks don’t want your keys (0:29) Achieve on-time delivery with ProShop ERP (1:58) Guest reintroduction: Danny’s background in commercial lending for shops (4:48) Defining the "big scary words": Loan covenants and personal guarantees (8:12) How banks evaluate owner distributions and when limits apply (9:50) Balance sheet leverage: Why your assets vs. liabilities matter (12:53) UCC filings: What they are and why they get overlooked (14:37) Proactive vs. reactive reporting: How to stay on your bank’s good side (23:44) Types of personal guarantees and what really triggers enforcement (26:46) Learn how to grow your top and bottom-line with CLA (30:24) What happens in worst-case scenarios—and how communication can save you (34:14) How outside consultants and investors can step in when banks get nervous (40:57) What a strong balance sheet might mean for guarantees (46:43) Negotiating your covenants: Why the whole loan is a conversation (52:54) The most important things to pay attention to at closing (56:35) Why you need to listen to the MakingSparks podcast Resources & People Mentioned Achieve on-time delivery with ProShop ERP Banking Secrets for Manufacturers: How to Secure the Cash You Need, Ep #12 Connect with Dan O’Keefe Busey Bank Connect on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Tariffs aren’t just a line item buried in your supply chain—they’re a fast-moving, often misunderstood force that could have a massive impact on your profitability, pricing, and even your global strategy. In this eye-opening episode of Buy the Numbers, Jennifer Clement and Leslie Boyd from CLA join me for a masterclass in tariff mitigation strategies. As volatility re-emerges on the global trade front, Jennifer and Leslie offer clarity, practical steps, and a proactive roadmap that manufacturers of all sizes can follow. Jennifer and Leslie break down the reality that waiting for the rules to settle is no longer a viable plan. Instead, they introduce a three-bucket framework that helps businesses act now, in six months, and long-term—everything from basic “tariff hygiene” and invoice scrubbing to more advanced strategies like tariff engineering, duty drawback, and setting up foreign trade zones. The conversation also dives into how manufacturers can hold their vendors accountable, optimize their pricing inputs, and think creatively about global operations in a world where tariffs can change mid-shipment. Whether you’re sourcing machines from overseas or fielding questions from customers about cost projections, this episode equips you to speak the language of tariffs fluently—and use that fluency to your financial advantage. Rounding out the discussion is a preview of CLA’s upcoming webinar series, a free, multi-part educational deep dive for manufacturers who want to master cost control in a tariff-heavy environment. This isn’t just about playing defense—it’s about making moves that could shield your margins, even amid economic uncertainty. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Understanding why tariffs are urgent now and how they impact manufacturers (0:14) Learning how CLA helps manufacturers grow their top and bottom line (1:35) Getting to know Leslie Boyd and Jennifer Clemente from CLA (4:38) Discovering why a proactive strategy is essential despite tariff volatility (6:13) Clarifying common misconceptions about tariffs and pricing strategies (10:17) Exploring Bucket #1: “Good tariff hygiene” and how invoice scrubbing can save you (17:30) Learning additional compliance strategies like transfer pricing and duty drawback (18:38) Hearing about the Lights Out podcast and automation trends in manufacturing (20:21) Understanding how currency hedging can protect against cost fluctuations (22:16) Breaking down the first sale rule and how it reduces tariff costs (24:55) Exploring Bucket #2: Using bonded warehouses and free trade zones to defer tariffs (28:19) Learning how tariff engineering can reduce exposure by rethinking product design (30:44) Exploring Bucket #3: Re-imagining supply chains and reshoring for long-term gains (33:51) Understanding the process and odds of getting tariff relief through exclusions (36:10) Getting an overview of CLA’s upcoming webinar series on tariff mitigation strategies (40:24) Completing the Top Shops survey to benchmark your shop against the industry Resources & People Mentioned CLA Tackling Tariffs webinar series Tackling Tariffs (Deck to accompany episode) Complete the Top Shops survey and let the numbers tell the story Connect with Jennifer Clement and Leslie Boyd CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) Connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn Connect with Leslie on LinkedIn  Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Most small manufacturers don’t realize they’re being quietly supported by one of the most impactful public-private partnerships in the country. The Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) has long been the hidden backbone behind training programs, grant facilitation, process improvements, and critical tech upgrades for shops across the U.S. But recent Federal decisions to defund these programs—without clear communication or reasoning—have sparked confusion and alarm among industry insiders. In this episode, a passionate roundtable of manufacturers and advocates reveals just how deeply the MEPs have shaped their businesses, supported workforce development, and opened doors to opportunity they couldn’t have accessed alone. From AR-integrated quoting tools to automation investment guidance, these stories show a clear economic impact that extends far beyond individual shops—right into the health of local communities and the national manufacturing strategy. If you're just hearing about MEPs now, you're not alone—but you are at risk. This conversation lays out what’s at stake, why it matters, and what you can do right now to help save a resource that quietly powers tens of thousands of manufacturers nationwide. YouTube: https://youtu.be/WNjevmTNUu4 VideoAsk: https://www.videoask.com/fiyvfkcdd

If you're still thinking of culture in your manufacturing shop as a side dish instead of the main course, you're already behind. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down with Jim Mayer to unpack what shop culture really looks like on the floor—and why we need to start talking about it differently. This isn't about breakroom ping-pong tables or slogans on the wall. Those things are fine, but they don’t build lasting culture. We're talking about turnover, pride, accountability, and results that actually move the needle. Jim’s got a fascinating story—he went from falling off roofs to falling in love with manufacturing, and now he’s one of the leading voices on what modern shop leadership needs to look like. He shared how a misstep early in his consulting work (calling himself a “culture consultant”) forced him to reframe his approach completely. What he landed on—hands-on workshops and real-time cultural diagnostics—has quietly transformed how a lot of shops build trust and accountability. What I loved about this conversation is how tactical it got. We talked about the death of command-and-control leadership, the rise of reverse mentorship, and why the youngest people on your team might actually be the cultural glue. We also dove into what I’ve seen firsthand here at Hill—how we went from a stark divide between the office and the shop floor to a culture that’s collaborative, human, and proud. One thing Jim said really stuck with me: “Culture is individual.” That hit hard. It’s not about copying someone else’s approach; it’s about aligning your team to your own values and leading accordingly. We got into the metrics too—how to actually measure culture, and why asking your team if they’re proud of where they work might be the highest-leverage question you can ask this year. If culture feels like a fuzzy concept in your shop, this episode will give you the clarity (and the tools) you’ve been missing. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Culture is individual: what works for one shop may be toxic to another (1:50) Jim’s path from contractor to manufacturing leadership (and the problem with “consultant”) (06:25) Why shop owners resist cultural evaluations—and what works better (9:35) The generational shift in manufacturing and the death of command-and-control leadership (11:51) Reverse mentorship and how under-35s are leading the cultural charge (16:12) Hill Manufacturing’s office-floor divide and the cultural shift toward collaboration (20:35) What happens to employees when leadership and values change? (22:38) Measuring culture: red-yellow-green vs. specific engagement questions (24:03) Why you should listen to the Machine Shop Mastery podcast  (29:27) The power of asking “Are you proud of where you work?” (38:18) Jim’s 2-day process for diagnosing culture with qualitative and quantitative data (42:42) Top five strengths and weaknesses in manufacturing shop cultures (48:08) Learn about Mike’s business, podcasts, and upcoming workshops (54:08) Why you need to take the Modern Machine Shop Top Shops Survey Resources & People Mentioned Take the Modern Machine Shop Top Shops Survey Connect with Jim Mayer Connect on LinkedIn The Manufacturing Connector The Manufacturing Connector Podcast The Manufacturing Culture Podcast Work, But Make it Human Jim’s “Lead the Change” workshops Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

This conversation will transform how you think about machine tool investments. Keith Granno, a seasoned expert with over three decades of experience in the machine tool industry, offers invaluable insights on the delicate balance between machine selection and long-term profitability. From choosing the right machines to understanding when it's time to upgrade, Keith dives into the critical factors manufacturers often overlook when purchasing new equipment. You'll hear practical advice on how to evaluate your shop's real needs, focusing on the hidden costs that impact your bottom line, such as tooling, automation, and machine maintenance. Keith emphasizes the importance of buying with an eye on the future, knowing when to act, and what to consider before pulling the trigger on a purchase. With Keith’s guidance, you'll gain a clearer understanding of not just how to acquire equipment but how to make sure that equipment serves your growing business for years to come. This episode is more than just a discussion on what to buy—it's about how to make smarter, data-driven decisions that will pay off in the long run. Whether you’re considering a new machine, evaluating the performance of your current assets, or trying to optimize your workflow with automation, you’ll walk away with actionable strategies that can elevate your operations and profits.  You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Introducing Keith Granno and his background in the machine tool industry (5:37) The blend of art and science in the manufacturing industry (7:45) The various brands Keith is familiar with and has sold (10:10) Key indicators that signal it's time to invest in a new machine (14:57) The impact of automation on efficiency and machine performance (19:32) Discussing the total cost of ownership and considering hidden costs (23:40) Why you should listen to Machine Shop Mastery! (26:52) How to determine if a machine is the right solution for your needs (32:27) The pros and cons of financing versus paying cash for equipment (34:05) The importance of being proactive and investing during slower periods (37:36) Mistakes to avoid when purchasing new or used machines (47:25) Why you need the right work for the spindle that you’re buying (52:13) Take The Modern Machine Shop Top Shops Survey Resources & People Mentioned Why you should listen to Machine Shop Mastery! Take The Modern Machine Shop Top Shops Survey Connect with Keith Granno Connect on LinkedIn TITANS of CNC Keith@TitansofCNC.com Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

In today’s episode of Buy the Numbers, we’re diving into the key metrics that help a company scale successfully. Growth can be both exhilarating and overwhelming, especially when you’re managing multiple locations and divisions.  How do you ensure that each part of your business is operating smoothly while also keeping a strong grip on the culture and values that made your company successful in the first place? Our guest, Matthew Nix, shares how his company navigated these challenges and the data-driven strategies they’ve implemented to manage growth effectively. Matthew Nix, the fifth-generation CEO of Nix Companies, discusses the importance of establishing clear metrics and systems for tracking daily operations. From staffing levels to production capacity and morale, Matthew highlights how small, consistent data points can give a real-time snapshot of a business's health. He also shares the shift from tracking data merely for analysis to using it as a tool for action and decision-making. One of the major themes in this episode is how to balance growth with maintaining a positive culture. Matthew explains how they’ve used feedback loops and regular check-ins to keep track of their employees' engagement and morale. He also shares insight into how they've systematized their operations to manage multiple business units under one umbrella, making it easier to identify issues early on and take corrective actions before they become larger problems. Whether you're running a small shop or a multi-location operation, this episode will give you practical takeaways on how to implement simple, yet effective data-driven systems that help you manage growth while maintaining a focus on your culture and values. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Introduction to the episode and Matthew Nix (3:46) Overview of Matthew's company, podcast, and book (10:49) The role of data in managing business growth (14:52) The data used for daily decision-making (20:44) How morale impacts company culture (and tracking the data) (25:06) Weekly metrics: The strategic priority for each business unit (28:28) Why you need to listen to the Lights Out Podcast (32:40) How to operationalize strategic goals and tie them to KPIs (36:58) KPIs for HR: Recruiting and turnover metrics (41:08) Using volume and efficiency metrics in business development (46:57) Why lead and lag indicators are important for long-term success (51:45) Encouraging employee participation in data tracking (54:25) Pro Fab Alliance and how they help other businesses (59:06) Why you need to take the Modern Machine Shop Top Shops Survey Resources & People Mentioned Married to Each Other and the Business (Part 1) Married to Each Other and the Business (Part 2) Josh McKain’s Data-Driven Framework to Align Goals and Accountability, Ep #7 The 4 Disciplines of Execution  Halftime Hire MFG Leaders The Modern Machine Shop Top Shops Survey Connect with Matthew Nix Forging Ahead ProFab Alliance The MakingSparks Podcast Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

How do you secure the cash you need to run your manufacturing business?  In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Dan O'Keefe, Senior Vice President at Busey Bank, to explore the crucial steps in securing a line of credit for your business. If you’re a manufacturer looking for financing, this episode is packed with essential advice on how to prepare. We walk through the specific financial documents you need to have in order when applying for a line of credit, from profit and loss statements to accounts receivable aging reports. Dan explains what banks are looking for and why these documents are key to getting approved. Beyond just having the right documents, we discuss how to make your business more attractive to banks. Dan shares insights into what banks want to see in your financials, such as strong cash flow, solid inventory management, and the ability to manage receivables. We also dive into the importance of building a strong relationship with your banker. A solid connection can help smooth the process, ensuring that your banker understands your business and your specific needs for credit. Whether you're applying for your first line of credit or expanding an existing one, this episode will give you the tools you need to successfully navigate the application process and secure the capital to grow your business. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Learn about Dan O'Keefe, Senior Vice President at Busey Bank (6:21) How to build a strong, positive connection with a bank (7:38) What information does a bank need from you? (11:29) What is a borrowing base?  (12:35) The impact of customer payment terms (17:58) What does it mean to “underwrite” a customer?  (20:06) How a bank calculates the amount of credit available (22:01) The impact of customer concentration on credit lines (25:03) Red flags that banks look out for  (27:44) How banks look at inventory (raw materials, WIP, and finished goods) (32:11) Using a line of credit as a backup for payroll (36:43) How to prepare for a line of credit request  Connect with Dan O’Keefe Busey Bank Connect on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple + Spotify Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

What if you could save thousands on your taxes with a few strategic changes to your business? In this episode, Nick Romanelli and Dylan Valentyn from Clifton Larson Allen share key tax strategies that many manufacturers overlook. We dive into the R&D tax credit, showing how manufacturers—whether small job shops or larger factories—can qualify by innovating in ways they may not have considered, such as improving products, developing new processes, or creating prototypes. By documenting these activities and tracking time and materials, manufacturers can unlock valuable credits that could significantly boost their bottom line. We also explore the impact of the Section 174 rules, which now require manufacturers to capitalize and amortize research expenses over several years rather than expensing them immediately. While this change can affect cash flow, the R&D tax credit offers relief by providing a dollar-for-dollar reduction in tax liability. Nick and Dylan explain how to navigate these changes and ensure manufacturers are maximizing their R&D claims. Next, we discuss the critical decision of entity selection—LLC, S Corp, or C Corp. Nick and Dylan break down the advantages and disadvantages of each structure, and how making the right choice can lower your tax burden, attract investment, and set up your business for long-term success. Finally, we introduce the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC), a valuable but often overlooked tax benefit for manufacturers who hire employees from groups facing employment barriers, such as veterans or long-term unemployed individuals. Tune in to discover how these tax strategies can save you money and help your manufacturing business thrive, plus a look at what tax changes to watch for in 2025. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... (0:00) Introduction to the episode and the guests (0:59) Depreciation strategies for IT and power infrastructure (02:25) The overlooked opportunity of R&D tax credits (04:34) Tracking R&D activities for tax credit qualification (10:32) The process for claiming R&D credits (13:51) The impact of the 174 rules on research expenses (17:10) Tax strategy for manufacturers considering entity selection (21:16) Exploring the Work Opportunity Credit (24:18) Tax changes to watch for in 2025 Resources & People Mentioned CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) Glossary of Terms Connect with Dylan Valentyn and Nick Romanelli Connect with Dylan on LinkedIn Connect with Nick on LinkedIn Connect With Buy the Numbers Follow on LinkedIn Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn Subscribe to Buy the Numbers Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK