CMA Connect

Marketers have a lot to lose. With complaints surging, mistakes can lead to hefty fines while playing it safe can limit innovation and creativity. So what can they do? CMA CEO Alison Simpson sits down with Steven Harroun, Vice President, Compliance and Enforcement at the CRTC to see where the complaints are coming from, and share the strategies marketers use to stay both competitive and compliant. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:28:05 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:28:07 - 00:01:00:20 Alison It's my pleasure to welcome Steven Harroun, a regulatory leader whose expertise sits at the critical intersection of marketing compliance and consumer protection in Canada's digital landscape. As a Vice President, Compliance and Enforcement at the CRTC, Steven oversees the enforcement of laws and regulations that directly impact how Canadian marketers operate, including CASL, Canada Anti-Spam Legislation and the Unsolicited Telecommunication Rules, including the National Do Not Call list, which both shape the daily practices of marketing professionals in Canada. 00:01:00:22 - 00:01:34:13 Alison While Steven's primary role focuses on regulatory enforcement, his unique position makes him an invaluable voice for marketers navigating Canada's complex compliance landscape. Steven and his team are highly valuable partners to the CMA. He has written articles for us addressing the practical challenges that marketers face when contacting Canadian consumers, while ensuring they're staying compliant with federal regulations. Steven's recent article "From CASL to unsolicited calls: Insights for marketers", really demonstrates his commitment to helping marketing professionals understand and adapt to evolving regulatory requirements. 00:01:34:15 - 00:01:59:06 Alison Steven brings over two decades of experience in telecommunications policy and regulation, having joined the CRTC in 2002 after working at the Canada Revenue Agency and in the private sector. Through his work, Steven has developed international partnerships with regulators worldwide, creating memoranda of Understanding that help enforce Canadian marketing laws across borders, which is a critical capability in today's global digital marketing environment. 00:01:59:08 - 00:02:05:03 Alison Steven, thanks so much for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to an engaging and insightful conversation. 00:02:05:05 - 00:02:21:22 Steven Thank you Alison. That's probably too kind of an introduction, but I appreciate it. And I truly appreciate the invitation. Like, engagements like this are like one of the favourite parts of my role in the organization. And, if I could do one of these every day, I would. So, no, I look forward to the discussion. 00:02:21:23 - 00:02:42:23 Alison Thank you. Now, Steven, the CMA and the CRTC have a long- standing, very collaborative relationship, from coauthoring thought leadership to working on key consumer choice initiatives. Building on that foundation of shared understanding, what do you see as the most important evolution in the dialog between regulators and the marketing community over the past few years? 00:02:43:01 - 00:03:14:12 Steven Yeah, I, let me start with something probably your members already know. But the CRTC, you know, we're an independent quasi judicial administrative tribunal, right? So we regulate communications in Canada in the public interest. We hold public consultations on like telecommunications and broadcasting matters, and we make decisions based on a public record. Now, if you turn to my role at the CRTC, which is a little bit unique, and it is unique to kind of have an enforcement arm embedded within the communications regulator, and I was gonna  say perhaps I'll get to tell you later about the advantages of that. 00:03:14:14 - 00:03:33:17 Steven But, you know, I am responsible and accountable for promoting compliance, as you said, with Canada's anti=spam  legislation in which we affectionately call CASL. And if you actually went to look at the real name of that legislation it's about 42 words long, so CASL works really well, as well as the unsolicited telecommunications roles, which includes our national Do Not Call list. 00:03:33:17 - 00:03:50:09 Steven Right. So that's which is kind of probably a key piece, you know, for your members here. I'm super proud, and I, you know, I started this by saying, I appreciate the invitation, but I'm, I'm super proud of kind of the relationship that we have with industry and specifically the CMA, because I feel like it's very longstanding for me, which is great. 00:03:50:09 - 00:04:09:16 Steven I think one of my first engagements when I stepped into this chair a few years ago was with the CMA. So I'm glad we've been able to continue this discussion, because educating on compliance, ensuring that marketers understand their obligations, take that bigger, just ensuring that all kind of legitimate companies in Canada understand the rules of the road, if you will. 00:04:09:18 - 00:04:34:05 Steven That's key to the success rate. Compliance is key to my success. So at the end of the day, if the more and more outreach activities like this that we do and you're right, we've done vlogs, we're doing this, you know, maybe next year I'll get to do some in-person thing with you guys, perhaps something that's, on the radar. But it's actually these collaborations and these unique opportunities where I get to kind of, you know, talk about, well, this is the world as I see it today. 00:04:34:10 - 00:04:57:18 Steven You know, and kind of the premise of your question was exactly that, like today. So I look back and I look back and, you know, I look back ten years and go, the things that we were seeing then and the complaints that we were seeing then from Canadians and the environment in which we're operating, we're very much focused on telemarketing and people getting calls and people, you know, I was going to say deciding whether or not they wanted to get calls right?  00:04:57:19 - 00:05:20:06 Steven Now, ironically, you know, it's ten years since CASL came into force this year, just in July. So that dialog has changed, right? Even over, even with your organization over the past decade, that dialog has changed. We are now talking about not just about calls. We are now talking about emails, and we're talking about SMS and we're talking about other digital platforms, perhaps that we hadn't even contemplated the early days of CASL. 00:05:20:11 - 00:05:41:00 Steven Right? We were talking about will you agree to get my email that's exploded kind of exponentially, even just from that, from that side of the house. So I think that's interesting to me, and I think that's fascinating as far as a landscape perspective goes, the legislation on the telemarketing side is 20 years old. You know, the even on CASL now, it's actually hard to believe for me to say that that's ten years old. 00:05:41:02 - 00:06:01:11 Steven But the environment in which we, you know, we ensure compliance within those regimes has just changed dramatically. And I look at, from my organization and if I look at kind of how we're trying to approach that. We, and I'm sure and I'm sure we'll get into this discussion, like your members have had to totally change things up completely. Like we, in the last ten years 00:06:01:11 - 00:06:17:17 Steven I built up a technical forensics team, you know, and I, you know, and I have a whole group of people now who, who slice and dice all the intelligence that we receive. But, you know, then we also have to look at when we're doing major investigations, we have to look at people's devices. And we have to understand, I was going to say, I'm no engineer, right? 00:06:17:17 - 00:06:35:02 Steven I'm really lucky, or a techie engineer. I'm really lucky that I get to lead a really great team of really cool, really technical people. But they can look at all this coding and they can look, you know, behind the screen and they can tell me like, oh, this is happening and this is where this is and this, which, which fascinates me. 00:06:35:02 - 00:06:53:18 Steven And if you told me ten years ago I'd lead a team of forensics experts, I would have, I would have said, I must be changing jobs, but I'm not, because that's just how much the environment has changed which I think it's really cool. But then I, you know, if I go to where your members are sitting and the things that they need to do, it isn't just calling Canadians about something, right? 00:06:53:18 - 00:07:09:19 Steven It's how are we reaching Canadians on so many different levels in so many different platforms? And most importantly for me, because I go back to my compliance roots, is how are we respecting Canadians' choices? Like how are we respect, like this is how I want to be engaged, and this is how often I want to be engaged. And you know what? 00:07:09:22 - 00:07:26:11 Steven I don't want to be engaged anymore. Right? Like that's the other side of that. So I, you know, it's easy for me to sit here as, you know, the Vice President of Compliance and Enforcement and say, do this, do this, do this and respect this, respect this, respect this. But I also, I understand, I was gonna say I worked in private sector at the early start in my career. 00:07:26:11 - 00:07:45:16 Steven Actually, I understand the other side of that where it's like, okay, but we want to push all the levers we can, obviously, to get our message out. So that, to me, that the technological space and how much things have evolved in our conversations over the ten years is really fascinating to me. And I'll be honest, what keeps my team up at night is actually the more nefarious actors in this space, right? 00:07:45:16 - 00:08:08:06 Steven

What does it take to rise from your first marketing role to CEO of a major communications company? In today's episode, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, sits down with Richard Kellam, who transformed his career from marketer to President & CEO of DATA Communications Management Corp. (DCM). Richard reveals how he leveraged transferable skills to make the jump to CPG, secured international opportunities, and how he evolved from Chief Customer Officer to CEO. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:28:10 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:28:12 - 00:01:00:08 Alison In today's episode, it's my pleasure to welcome Richard Kellam, who represents one of marketing's most desirable success stories. A CMO who successfully transitioned to global and national president and CEO roles. This is still far too much of a rarity in our profession. Richard is president and CEO of Data Communications Management Corp., commonly known as DCM. His journey from brand manager to chief executive spans three decades, eight different countries and leading marketing, sales and ultimately the top job for tier one brands. 00:01:00:10 - 00:01:26:12 Alison Richard's career progression through marketing leadership roles at Molson, Wrigley, Mars and Goodyear, combined with strategic moves into sales and general management positions, provides a really wonderful blueprint for ambitious marketing professionals seeking to expand their influence beyond the marketing role. At DCM, Richard is proving that marketing-trained CEOs bring truly unique advantages to leadership roles, particularly in today's customer-centric, digitally driven business environment. 00:01:26:14 - 00:02:00:05 Alison He's leading DCM's transformation from a traditional print company to a tech enabled marketing solutions provider, demonstrating how his marketing background provides crucial insights into customer needs as well as market trends and brand positioning. His career offers inspiration and practical guidance for many talented CMOs who aspire to CEO roles, but often find the path unclear. Richard's proved that with the right experiences, mindset shifts and strategic career moves, the transition from CMO to CEO is not only possible, but can be a very natural evolution for marketing leaders. 00:02:00:07 - 00:02:03:13 Alison Richard, it's an absolute pleasure to welcome you today. 00:02:03:15 - 00:02:05:15 Richard Thanks for having me, Alison. Appreciate it. 00:02:05:17 - 00:02:18:15 Alison And Richard and I first met very early in our careers. He was at Molson and I was the VP at McLaren. McCann overseeing the Molson account. So it's been a long journey together. And Richard, it's been really amazing to watch your path. 00:02:18:17 - 00:02:21:10 Richard Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, it was a lot of fun working together many years ago. 00:02:21:12 - 00:02:30:16 Alison So I'd love you to take us to your first job in marketing and how you thought about your career. In those early days, did you ever consider the possibility of becoming a CEO? 00:02:30:18 - 00:02:54:23 Richard I'm not sure I even knew what CEO meant back then. So I guess the answer to your question is no. I never really thought it was, it was possible. My actually first job at university was in sales for a company called Playtex. Actually, I applied for the job, but I"m really gonna date myself here. But it was in a classified ad in the Globe and Mail, right? 00:02:55:02 - 00:03:13:18 Richard Who remembers that? And I applied for the job, went in and interviewed for it and successfully got the role. They actually had two divisions. They had a they called it a family products mission. They had an intimate apparel division, and I was hired for the intimate apparel division. So I'm sure people know the Playtex products in that division and started in sales. Had a combination of, key accounts. 00:03:13:18 - 00:03:33:16 Richard A lot of the accounts aren't even in the market anymore. Simpson's, Eaton's, Sears. Of course, none of those are around. Kmart, Woolworths, which Walmart acquired. And then I had a bunch of independent accounts in downtown Toronto as well. So I did that for the for the first year and thankfully ended up being quite successful. I actually won rookie of the year, which is quite fun. 00:03:33:16 - 00:03:43:16 Richard And then after one year I was moved into marketing and I was an assistant brand manager on a few brands in Playtex. So that was my start in my marketing journey, you know, quite a while ago in the mid 80s. 00:03:43:18 - 00:04:05:01 Alison I definitely remember the days of classified ads and all of the retailers you mentioned. So we're certainly of the same vintage. I also worked in sales earlier in my career, and I think it's such a powerful view to have, especially early in your career, and can really shape your approach to marketing. So building on that, what experience or skills did you gain in that first sales and marketing role that have served you well throughout your career? 00:04:05:03 - 00:04:31:12 Richard So the biggest skill I gained on the marketing side was the importance of data analytics in business intelligence, on the sales side as well. And this was a days where computers were just being introduced to business and nobody had their own personal computer. Back to my point where I won this, this rookie of the year sales award. Actually, I got a trip to Jamaica, so my wife and I went to Jamaica, and on that trip I read a book on how to use Excel. 00:04:31:14 - 00:04:44:23 Richard So I learned Excel from a from a book because I didn't have a computer. So I was sitting on a beach for the week, just reading about how to use Excel. And when I got back to the office, they had a computer room. So you didn't have a computer at your desk. You had a computer room. And I started to apply that 00:04:44:23 - 00:05:05:08 Richard learning to learn how to use Excel, because I knew that data analytics and business intelligence was extremely important in marketing or important in business. So I, I've been kind of a numbers guy or a data guy or an analyst guy or business intelligence guy, kind of for my whole career, using data and insights to create value for a business. 00:05:05:08 - 00:05:27:10 Richard So that was really defining, I'd say, point for me in my career, and it's certainly been kind of central to my skill and capability as I've progressed. And I'd say the other key competency or attribute, I'm, my archetype is an explorer. So I like to learn new things and see new things and discover new things. So I'm a very curious business leader as well. 00:05:27:10 - 00:05:39:14 Richard So curiosity, while I was in that sales role or in that early stage entry level marketing role, was an important competency and that really contributed to my success as well. In addition to the data analytics and business intelligence. 00:05:39:16 - 00:06:00:19 Alison Curiosity and the constantly learning is such a mission critical skill and mindset for anyone in marketing. I think it's always been the case, but given how the pace of change is accelerated around us, it is absolute mission critical. So following Playtex, you moved into the first of many marketing roles in the CPG industry, starting with Robin Hood Foods and then later Wrigley. 00:06:00:21 - 00:06:03:11 Alison What made that move possible for you? 00:06:03:13 - 00:06:23:07 Richard I actually worked for a guy who came out of, Procter and Gamble. So that was my first boss at Playtex, and he talked a lot about, you know, kind of the CPG space and the learning and the development and the skill and capability that they build. And so I thought, you know, I had this opportunity come by for Robin Hood Multifoods was a recruiter, headhunter that was calling me and talk to me about this role. 00:06:23:07 - 00:06:41:22 Richard So that was kind of an interesting role and, and a good opportunity for me to kind of expand my horizon into a new category. Interesting thing about Robin Hood, again, that was kind of my entry into CPG. But if you think about it, I was the brand manager on Robin Hood Flour. So you can't get a more commoditized business, right? 00:06:41:22 - 00:07:02:12 Richard Salt, sugar, flour those are all commodities. So to really understand the category and how to create value in a highly commoditized category was huge learning for me. And, and it was a lot of fun, actually, at the same time. And we had a really good run on Robin Hood Flour. The brand had a great success and proven that marketing does, you know, deliver value, especially in a highly commoditized category like that. 00:07:02:12 - 00:07:07:11 Richard Right. Brand is everything. So learned a lot there. And then obviously applied that learning as I progressed. 00:07:07:13 - 00:07:14:09 Alison And you went on to spend the bulk of your career in CPG. So what were the keys to your advancement and success? 00:07:14:11 - 00:07:35:11 Richard Yeah. Coming back to what I said earlier, you know, my curiosity, my explorer archetype, really kind of wanted to understand and discover new opportunities to build value in a business or value in a brand. Those, I'd say, would be my key success factors as I move through my career. Also, I was known as the "just do it" guy. 00:07:35:13 - 00:07:57:06 Richard In other words, I wasn't afraid to to do things and try things and not afraid to make mistakes. I always had a strong bias to action. Thankfully, I did more things right than wrong so that, that contributed to my success as well, but clearly made a lot of mistakes in my career as well and learned from those mistakes and then applied that learning to new, you know, to new activity moving forward. 00:07:57:08 - 00:08:13:05 Alison The "just do it" guy

What does it take to transform how an entire country thinks about sleep? In this episode, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, sits down with Nuno Bamberg, Senior Vice President, Brand and Marketing at Sleep Country Canada. Nuno is the Brazilian-born, Canadian-made marketing leader behind Sleep Country Canada's cultural transformation. From his family's creative agency roots in Brazil to building brand portfolios that balance legacy with bold innovation, Nuno shares why curiosity beats caution, how to fail fast and iterate faster, and what Sleep Country's acquisition of UK's Simba Sleep reveals about scaling values across borders. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:08 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:43:06 Alison In today's episode, we're diving into a story that in many ways embodies the modern Canadian dream. From a 16-year old Brazilian exchange student in small town Ontario to the marketing executive who's transforming one of Canada's most beloved brands. I'm thrilled to welcome Nuno Bamberg, Senior Vice President of Brand and Marketing at Sleep Country Canada, to our podcast today. 00:00:43:08 - 00:01:07:22 Alison Nuno oversees marketing strategies for Sleep Country, Dormez-Vous, Bloom, Endy, Hush, Casper and Silk and Snow, as well as the new retail store, the rest. His Canadian story began at age 16 as an exchange student in Bracebridge, Ontario, an experience that planted the seeds for his eventual emigration to Canada with his family as an adult. This was driven by his belief in both Canadian values as well as the opportunities our country represents. 00:01:08:00 - 00:01:37:06 Alison Like me, Nuno started his career at agencies before moving to the brand side. Before he joined Sleep Country Canada and spent nine years as the SVP, Chief Content and Production Officer at Publicis Group Canada, where he helped nearly double the agency's size while working with iconic brands like The Home Depot, Rogers and Canadian Tire. Since making the move to Sleep Country in 2023, Nuno has been transforming how Canadians think about sleep, elevating it well beyond a commodity purchase to a critical component of our health and wellness. 00:01:37:08 - 00:02:06:20 Alison Today, we'll explore how Nuno is driving this cultural shift around sleep and wellness, and redefining what it means to honour legacy while embracing bold innovations in today's dynamic and, at times, very challenging retail landscape. This week, his team launched their latest innovation, and Nuno will share a bit about what led to the bold new approach. So whether you're interested in the agency to client career transition, or how an established Canadian brand can innovate while honouring their legacy, today's conversation promises to both be inspiring and actionable. 00:02:06:22 - 00:02:09:01 Alison Without further ado, welcome, Nuno. 00:02:09:03 - 00:02:18:01 Nuno Thank you. And for the CMA and CMA Connect team for having me today. I'm excited to be here sharing a little bit about myself, my journey to Canada, and my professional experience in Canada. 00:02:18:03 - 00:02:25:20 Alison So, you know, I would love to start by having you share what brought you from Brazil to Canada originally, and why you chose Canada over so many other countries. 00:02:25:22 - 00:02:53:15 Nuno The first time I came to Canada, as you mentioned, it was when I was 16 years of age. And frankly, at that time, I was really focused on going somewhere where I didn't know anyone. I know it was a little weird, but that's really what I wanted. I wanted to go somewhere where I had no family, no friends, no safety net, and that would force me just to get out of my comfort zone and quite frankly, immerse myself fully into a new culture, a new language, daily habits, daily rituals, and an entire new way of life, if you will. 00:02:53:16 - 00:03:10:14 Nuno And I've always been that way. I always been incredibly curious about people in general. Like I always, as a kid, saw myself observing someone down the street and kind of pictured in my brain, what do they come from? What do they do? What's their background? And so I want to live that myself, because I had family in the U.S., that ruled out the U.S. all together. 00:03:10:16 - 00:03:33:22 Nuno I really wanted us, you know, clean slate, not a soft landing. And so I didn't want to fall back into the Portuguese, nor, because I didn't know English all that well, I wanted to fall back into my comfort zone. And so Canada became an obvious choice because it allowed me to grow, to expand, find a new version of myself if that makes sense, while also being able to encounter a new culture, which was something fairly new to me. 00:03:34:00 - 00:03:54:08 Nuno And what quickly stood out to me was the Canadian people. As a 16 year old going to Bracebridge at that time, there was no Google, there was no bing, there was Ask Jeeves. I knew nothing about Bracebridge, nor Canada, and within the week I knew everyone. And so the incredible kindness and open-mindedness with which Canadians received me at that time kind of stuck with me. 00:03:54:08 - 00:04:10:16 Nuno And so the second time I thought about leaving Brazil, fast forward to 2015, we had just had our second child a year before, and when my wife and I were in the decision of do we want to raise a family outside of Brazil, we have family in the U.S., so that felt like a natural place to go to. And my wife had never been to Canada before. 00:04:10:16 - 00:04:27:12 Nuno So I said to her, let me talk to you about Canada a little bit and the experience of what it is to go to a country where you know no one and no one knows you, but you are incredibly welcome and well-received, despite of your background and your own walk of life. And so we made the decision to come to Canada together. 00:04:27:12 - 00:04:50:06 Nuno I've been here now for ten years, and there's something about Canada kind of stays with you and has stayed with me since I was 16. And most importantly, quite frankly it molded me in many, many ways. So I always say that I was Brazilian-born and Canadian-made is because in many ways, the parts got assembled in Canada and made me a better human and I would say a better marketer, hopefully from all my experiences in Canada. 00:04:50:08 - 00:05:09:00 Alison That's an incredibly brave move as an adult. At 16, it's one of those pivotal times where we're all sort of figuring ourselves out. So for you to pick up and leave everything you knew and transplant yourself deliberately in small town Canada was very brave and certainly speaks to, I suspect, part of what has made you such a successful marketer as well. 00:05:09:01 - 00:05:23:03 Alison And then when you moved with your family to Toronto, I grew up in small town Ontario, so I like to think that we're the most welcoming part of Canada, Toronto isn't always as welcoming, but I'd love to hear what your experience and your family's experience was coming to Toronto. 00:05:23:05 - 00:05:45:10 Nuno That's an incredible observation. Yes, I think moving to a small town, Bracebridge, at 16, was a lot easier in many ways than it was moving to Canada with an entire family and different pressures too, because when I came, my wife didn't speak the language. She was leaving behind a pretty successful career in advertising in Brazil. There were a lot more baggages and pressures that came with the move itself. 00:05:45:12 - 00:06:09:00 Nuno What made it unique to being Toronto versus that small town Canada, to your point, was while it was, everything was very foreign to my wife and family at the same time, everything was very accessible. So having access to different cultures and most importantly, actually a little piece of Brazil already existed in Canada. There's a part of Toronto where it's a lot of Portuguese bakeries, Portuguese grocery shops, Brazilian grocery shops, Brazilian bakeries and restaurants. 00:06:09:02 - 00:06:30:18 Nuno So that helped her get acclimated to Canada a lot easier than not. But certainly, to your point, took a lot longer to get accustomed to the life in Canada at a big city where you don't have that neighbour just down the street, you can knock on the door of. It made it a little harder for us. But still, what I can say remain the same was the open-mindedness that Canadians have. 00:06:30:20 - 00:06:49:00 Nuno And I think that's because of the very diverse cultural background that we all have in Canada remain the same. People were still very welcoming to the fact that she was learning the language, my kids were learning the language. We're all acclimated to the culture. The open-mindedness was still the same. The access to people was a bit more far removed because it was a bigger city. 00:06:49:02 - 00:06:57:03 Nuno But people's innate open-mindedness and kindness were still pretty much the same as it were many, many years ago when I was in small town Bracebridge. 00:06:57:05 - 00:07:17:12 Alison So as Canadians, we'd like to pride ourselves on being open-minded, welcoming and being a cultural mosaic. So for me, as a longstanding Canadian, it's really rewarding to hear that you, as someone newer to our country, found that both in your teen years, but also bringing your your family back to Canada ten years ago, so... happy 10th anniversary, by the way. 00:07:17:16 - 00:07:19:23 Nuno Thank you. Thank you. I'm very proud to be here. 00:07:20:01 - 00:07:30:01 Alison When we first met, you had mentioned that you were born into the creative agency world with family that worked in the business in Brazil. How do you think that foundation really influenced your career path? 00:07:30:03 - 00:07:55:10 Nuno Well great question. Yeah, creativity and creative in general ran deep int

On this episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, speaks with Canadians Zoë Boudreau, Associate Creative Director of Design, and Jesse Shaw, Senior Motion Designer, both from Rethink, about winning Canada's first Young Lions Design Competition gold at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. They reveal how a challenging 24-hour brief on Indian comic book history—completely outside their expertise—pushed them to implement integrated speech bubbles and motion systems that no other team explored. Hear how their complementary skills, iterative approach, and ability to maintain humour under extreme pressure turned unfamiliar constraints into gold-winning creativity. See their Young Lion gold-winning work here. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:01 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:03 - 00:00:48:05 Alison Welcome back to CMA Connect. Today we're bringing you a truly special conversation straight from the heart of the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. Every year, the Young Lions competition challenges the brightest emerging talent from around the world, really pushing them to innovate under incredible pressure. This year, on the last day of what was already a very inspiring week, Canada truly shone on that global stage. 00:00:48:07 - 00:01:09:03 Alison So I am thrilled to be joined today by the talented young Canadian creative team, Zoe Boudreau, an associate Creative Director of Design, and Jesse Shaw, a senior motion designer who not only competed but brought home the coveted Gold Lion for design. So I don't normally do a standing ovation in the beginning of a podcast, but guys, you totally deserve a standing ovation. 00:01:09:03 - 00:01:12:07 Alison So super well done. 00:01:12:09 - 00:01:13:11 Jesse Thank you so much. 00:01:13:13 - 00:01:14:07 Zoe Thank you. 00:01:14:12 - 00:01:35:11 Alison Now this incredible achievement really is a testament to your vision, certainly a testament to your hard work. It also highlights the important role of The Globe and Mail, a Canadian Marketing Association member, who champion and lead the Canadian Young Lions competition here in Canada and are really playing an important role for helping foster the next generation of creative leaders right here at home. 00:01:35:17 - 00:01:46:08 Alison So to all our listeners, get ready to be inspired as we hear directly from Canada's winning team about their journey to gold. Zoe and Jesse. Huge welcome to the CMA Connect podcast.  Zoe Thank you. 00:01:46:12 - 00:01:47:17 Jesse Thank you so much. 00:01:47:19 - 00:01:56:15 Alison The first question I'm going to ask is, who was the first person you reached out to back home once you found out you'd want? Zoe, do you want to go first? 00:01:56:17 - 00:02:10:19 Zoe Ooh. Honestly, I think it was probably my boyfriend. I think was the first one, but he was dead asleep, so he did not find out until the morning. But that was definitely the first person I texted. that night. 00:02:10:19 - 00:02:15:11 Alison That nine hour time zone wouldn't have worked to your advantage on that one, coming from Kelowna. And Jesse, what about you? 00:02:15:16 - 00:02:41:05 Jesse Yeah. It was. I mean, I'd like to say it was my wife, but, no, it was my mom because she texted me, like, five minutes after we won. Like, trying to act really  casual like she hadn't been awake all night. Saying, like, oh, have you heard anything? So I FaceTimed or just with the, with the award, and it was fun watching her, like, recognize in real time what she was reading, because I think it was exactly, it was like one in the morning or something. 00:02:41:05 - 00:02:45:21 Alison So I think your wife is can understand that.  00:02:45:23 - 00:02:52:18 Jesse Yeah, she, she, she woke up to the message and she seemed pretty excited when, when she found out. But yeah. 00:02:52:20 - 00:03:17:13 Alison That is very cool. Well, needless to say, taking home a Gold Lion in design at Cannes is a monumental achievement, especially in the Young Lions competition, which has a very intense 24-hour brief. So huge congratulations, and I'd love you to walk me through the initial moments when you first saw the brief through to coming up with the award winning idea and executing it under such an incredibly tight time constraints. 00:03:17:14 - 00:03:19:11 Alison So who wants to kick it off? 00:03:19:12 - 00:03:40:08 Zoe Yeah, I can kick off like the brief aspect. We were in the this area. We were like eating, because we knew that was something we needed to do before getting into the competition. And we got briefed at 4:00, but we got the briefs sent to us, I think it was at 3:30. Yeah. And we forgot about that, that it was going to be sent to us. 00:03:40:08 - 00:04:07:14 Zoe So as we were eating, it got sent through our email and we're like, the brief! We should probably read this. And we really were like, honestly, I was kind of like surprised or like, really like, scared of the brief. The brief was really tricky. And I think that Jesse and I were just talking about it, and my face was like, oh no, this is like a really hard brief. 00:04:07:14 - 00:04:29:00 Zoe But we got some really good advice from one of our other Canadian Young Lions saying that if it's a hard breathe, it's actually a huge opportunity because everyone's going to see it as a hard brief. So you can just like go hard. If that's the case. So that was pretty intense at the the up front because we were like, oh, this is actually going to be like an all-nighter. 00:04:29:01 - 00:04:49:01 Jesse Yeah I think yeah. So I think it's called the solarium, like the cafe, and you know, really the memory is just having, you know, the, the hot sun just beating down on us and really thinking like, okay, this is, yeah. This isn't going to be fun. This is, this is not going to be a cakewalk. 00:04:49:03 - 00:05:11:20 Jesse And I think kind of recognizing like in that moment. Yeah. That, you know, we got in here representing Canada and that it wasn't going to get to trust that we were here on our own merit. But, you know, you see something like a brief as maybe outside of our boundaries as it was. And yeah, kind of recognizing that we're going to need to dig deep. 00:05:11:22 - 00:05:31:22 Jesse You know, it's it's fun talking about it now, but I was definitely texting a few people, right when we got it. You can definitely see that the decline in like, sanity and just the stress really flow out. So I just want to, I just want to say I appreciate it. Everyone that had to listen to me freak out online. 00:05:32:00 - 00:05:44:02 Alison Well, and the, being in the solarium, something like 32 degree heat, sunshine takes the whole concept of pressure cooker to a whole other level. Now what was it about the brief that made it so tricky and challenging? 00:05:44:04 - 00:06:21:20 Zoe I'd have to say that, well, the brief was making an exhibition in India on Indian comic books. But not just that. It's like the history of storytelling or visual storytelling that leads to comic books. So there were so many layers as part of the brief. And on top of that, we had to name it. And I think the naming part was the thing that we were really freaked out about because we're not copywriters by trade, but now we like to pretend that we are because we we, 00:06:21:22 - 00:06:26:14 Zoe I think we came up with a pretty sick name. Yeah. Go ahead. Jesse. 00:06:26:16 - 00:06:27:00 Jesse Oh, no, no. 00:06:27:03 - 00:06:54:11 Jesse No, I mean, it's it's exactly that I think in the Canadian for the Canadian portion of the Young Lions competition, the brief was around a biking event. That was something like a lot of, you know, experience with attending bike events. It was a space that I was really comfortable and interested in. So we kind of felt, you know, leading into that, that maybe we got lucky or that, you know, the things just sort of aligned for us to really hit the ground running there. 00:06:54:13 - 00:07:23:06 Jesse And that just wasn't the case. You know, unfortunately, just recognizing our own paths that just didn't have a ton of cultural touch points to the history of sequential storytelling in India, so that this wasn't going to be something that we just luck into. It was going to be a lot of work. But definitely, you know, on the other side of that, realizing that it was, you know, a super cool and just feel super fortunate for having that opportunity to learn about the space because that was something that we had no idea about going into it. 00:07:23:06 - 00:07:31:16 Jesse And on the other side now, it's something that I think during the presentation portion, we were like genuinely enthusiastic about championing it because it's incredible. 00:07:31:22 - 00:07:46:18 Alison Well, that's such a great testament to the profession, because there are times, I've been agency side, I've been brand side, and there are times where you get a client, or you get a brief. It's like, oh, perfect. I have a passion for this. I have an interest for this. But most of the time it's like, okay, that's fascinating. 00:07:46:18 - 00:08:04:07 Alison I don't know much about the market. I don't know much about the brand. I don't know much about the consumer and how you have to dig in and learn, and the fact that you dug in and learned in a very, very compressed time period and emerge with gold, that has to be even more gratifying. So huge, huge congratulations. 00:08:04:13 - 00:08:05:10 Jesse Appreciate that. 00:08:05:12 - 00:08:18:17 Alison So you've shared a bit about the significant creative hurdle that you were encountering with the brief. I'd love to hear, how did you leverage each other's strengths or challenge each

Broadcasting live from Cannes Lions 2025, CMA CEO Alison Simpson discusses Bob Park's (Chief Brand Officer for GE, Cafe, Monogram and Haier Appliances in Canada) bold decision to increase sponsorship of Canada Soccer amid multiple scandals. The condition? Complete equality for the women's soccer program. This purpose-driven stance delivered social change (equal pay for women's soccer) and business results (75% website traffic increase), taking GE's "good things for life" mantra further as "good things for everyone." 00:00:00:01 - 00:00:10:18 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast with your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:10:20 - 00:00:13:19 Video We are announcing that we are building a women's professional soccer league in Canada. GE Appliances to supporting women's soccer, it's phenomenal. It changes women's and girls' lives. 00:00:31:15 - 00:01:01:10 Bob  Um, It still chokes me up. That thing, where we were faced with a real dilemma at GE. A number of the corporate partners of Canada Soccer, our governing, national soccer organization, had pulled out of sponsorship because of these, scandals and issues that were affecting the organization. But, and I had about a week to think about it. 00:01:01:12 - 00:01:25:02 Bob And obviously, from a corporate standpoint, it would make the most sense to just simply, pull our funding. We always have clauses in our contract, that say, if this happens, you can pull out. But I thought about it and I thought, about, back to our purpose. And our purpose is really, as GE Appliances, we want to support the community. 00:01:25:02 - 00:01:49:13 Bob We, our motto is "good things for life", and that means good things for everyone. How can we support Canada Soccer, which, soccer in Canada, the beautiful game in Canada and then pull out of backing financially the number one organization in the country. No matter how small it is, no matter what it is that you're doing, bring the change that you want to see in the world. 00:01:49:15 - 00:01:56:10 Bob And after that, great things happen. Thank you very much. You. 00:01:56:12 - 00:02:26:23 Alison In today's episode, we're diving into a story that is literally minutes ago, fresh on the stage from the prestigious Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity. We're exploring how innovative brand partnerships are reshaping the landscape for brands and sport marketing in Canada, and also really driving social change and important differences in our community and in equity in this case. So I'm thrilled to be joined by Bob Park, Chief Brand Officer for GE, Cafe, Monogram and Haier Appliances in Canada. 00:02:27:01 - 00:02:49:00 Alison Bob is in Cannes, where he presented as part of the Changemakers series, which has been a very inspiring session where marketers around the world that are renowned for driving important societal change and building brands and businesses have been invited to speak. And Bob, you did a phenomenal job. So thank you for representing Canada so well.  Bob Thank you.  Alison And now we're going to dive into some questions. 00:02:49:00 - 00:03:10:13 Alison And he's going to share, what he shared in Cannes and answer some of our questions around it. So Bob, it's an absolute a pleasure to have you with me today. Why don't you start, by talking a bit about GE Appliances Canada entered into a multi-year partnership with Canada Soccer in 2022. Now you were surprised by a big, unexpected press issue. 00:03:10:13 - 00:03:35:14 Alison And anytime you enter into a sponsorship, there's always potential that things will go awry. Yet when things went awry, you stayed through it and absolutely continue to have a partnership and evolved your approach. So it's a very inspiring story. The audience at Cannes were riveted, so I'd love you to share with our CMA Connect audience a bit about the sponsorship, what happened and why you continue to support Canada Soccer. 00:03:35:15 - 00:04:02:11 Bob I think the first thing I have to do is, go back to, our thinking process or our thought process around, sponsoring soccer in the beginning. And really what it came down to is soccer is the most participated sport in the country. And the reason for that is the barriers to entry for sports like hockey, as an example, are, are it's very expensive to send, if you have any children in hockey. 00:04:02:13 - 00:04:29:03 Bob It's an extreme, expense. Soccer is the one sport that, despite whatever your family's economic condition is, almost any family can afford to participate in. And a large percentage of of the kids and families participating in soccer are GE consumers either now or down the road. So that made a lot of sense. The other thing that we really liked about soccer is it's a very diverse sport.  00:04:29:03 - 00:04:50:11 Bob Worldwide, it is also the most participated sport in the world, and it's phenomenal how accepted it is. No matter what country you go, we're in France now, and, and it's called football here. And I was just talking to a couple of people getting off the stage of how much they loved the game. So Canada, believe it or not, the fastest growing sport is soccer. 00:04:50:11 - 00:05:11:01 Bob More people are playing soccer than ever before. Our major league teams are getting much more attention, and our national team. So it was a kind of a no-brainer knowing that World Cup is coming next year in 2026. You know, we had decided in 2019, how do we, how do we leverage that? How do we how do we approach our consumer? 00:05:11:01 - 00:05:45:09 Bob And it was to get involved with major league teams in Canada, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and finally, really the crown jewel was Canada Soccer because we wanted to support our national teams, both, men and women. And of course, all the all the, grassroots programs across the country. Unfortunately, what had happened was, a number of different scandals, of which, a lot of the sponsors for Canada Soccer, in fact, had pulled out and and found it to be, untenable to maintain a relationship. 00:05:45:09 - 00:06:15:20 Bob And that was, you know, due to a few different, things that had happened. But probably the most prominent was, the women's soccer team going on strike, because of really unfair agreements or conditions as compared to the men's team. So an example of that was, they were having the 2023 Women's World Cup in Australia, and many of the women's players had to pay for their own plane tickets to go to the World Cup. 00:06:15:22 - 00:06:25:09 Bob That's entirely unheard of for virtually any country, much less Canada, where obviously the men's team were fully funded. 00:06:25:11 - 00:06:27:03 Alison And which team was performing significantly better? 00:06:27:05 - 00:06:50:12 Bob Yeah, the the women's team was challenging. They'd won a gold medal. Definitely one of the top teams in the world. So it really didn't make a lot of sense. And, the women rightfully, protested it. They kept playing their games but they donned purple shirts and really made it public. So as a brand that damaged our brand significantly. 00:06:50:18 - 00:07:14:14 Bob And any brand associated with Canada Soccer, because if you don't stand for that, it's going to do damage and you get social media inquiries and all, all types of questions around, why are you sponsoring this? Why is GE a part of, this terrible thing that is happening over at Canada Soccer? So I had about a week and I really thought about it. 00:07:14:14 - 00:07:51:06 Bob And I had the opportunity because it is a clause in most, sponsorship contracts to actually withdraw. And big names had already withdrawn their support of Canada Soccer, which is, predominantly financial and significant amounts of support. We are one of the largest sponsors of Canada Soccer. So it was really a crossroads. And the one thing that really ran through my mind was that, if I withdraw support, I'm actually truly withdrawing support from both the men's, women's and grassroots programs. 00:07:51:08 - 00:08:15:20 Bob And essentially what that does is, although I'm doing it in, I guess, protest of how they were treating the women's team, I'm, I'm completely dropping the funding as well. So that actually wasn't a winning situation for anybody. I thought and I thought about it. And finally we came up with the idea to write an open letter. 00:08:15:21 - 00:08:39:06 Bob So we wrote an open letter, and we distributed that  across all, media, online, etc. and it got picked up by a number of different publications - sports, Globe and Mail, TSN, etc. and what the letter had said was the letter was, was from me. And what it said was, I'm actually going to, give more money to Canada Soccer, which was kind of odd. 00:08:39:06 - 00:09:04:02 Bob I was going in the reverse direction. However, it came with a caveat, and the caveat was that that money was to go to specific programs that we agreed to and outlined, for example, trainers for the women's team, flights being paid for, etc., etc. It was all earmarked for the women's soccer program. That got me some calls. 00:09:04:02 - 00:09:29:12 Bob It actually got me some calls from the CEO and Headquarters and they were wondering, what I was doing and, I explained it to them that, that this is what our brand stands for, and this is the only way to maintain our commitment and our purpose, but still show that GE does not accept inequity. 00:09:29:14 - 00:09:50:17 Bob Our brand is not meant that way. And this is not acceptable to us, but we don't want to pull support of our hugely successful men's and women's programs. So a little bit of touchy, touchiness there, bit touch and go. But then finally, it actually paid off. Fast forward, months later, the women received an equal program. 00:09:50:17 - 00:10:24:09 Bob They received equal pay. They are now on equal terms with, with the men's team. And and you could see now, it spiraled into Women's League, just, Women's Northern Super League just started in Canada. The game is changing just

Broadcasting live from the 2025 Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity, CMA CEO Alison Simpson speaks with Susan Irving (CMO, Kruger Products) and Bryan Kane (CEO, FCB Canada) to discuss FCB Canada's Gold Lion win with SickKids Foundation and why Susan and Bryan keep returning to the festival. From Susan's three C's of Cannes and Bryan identifying areas to lean into, discover the insights shaping the future of marketing, creativity and accountability. 00:00:00:01 - 00:00:10:23 Announcer Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast with your host CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:11:01 - 00:00:32:16 Alison Simpson Welcome to the CMA Connect podcast. I'm Alison Simpson, and I am thrilled to be joined today by Susan Irving, the chief marketing officer for Kruger Products, and Bryan Kane, the CEO for FCB Canada. And Bryan, we'll start with a huge congratulations. You brought home Canada's first of hopefully many Gold Lions for your work with Sick Kids yesterday. How does it feel to be leading the charge? 00:00:32:18 - 00:00:50:22 Bryan Kane Well, it was a thrill for the team and everybody back home. There's an interesting thing with Cannes, where there's just a few of us that are here really representing the entire team, but getting the texts flooding in from clients and the rest of the agency was awesome to be able to share that with everybody. 00:00:51:00 - 00:01:02:18 Alison Simpson And, Susan, I know you've been here in past years. In fact, you judged, I think, two years ago. So how does it feel to be back and have a bit more flexibility in your schedule so you can actually take advantage of the programming? 00:01:02:20 - 00:01:27:17 Susan Irving It's always great to be here. It's my third year. And I think every year you're really just trying to get used to the craziness. I always say, if you've ever been to Vegas, it's Vegas times 100 for the marketer and creative individual. But it is nice this year not to be locked in a room for three days and being able to take advantage, of all the content. 00:01:28:06 - 00:01:42:03 Susan Irving If you've been here before, you know that it's just not the content here at the Palais. But then there's all the duelling beaches. So, it's always a struggle. I always tell people, register for everything, and then on the day, decide where you're going to go. 00:01:42:05 - 00:02:01:12 Alison Simpson So this is my first time back since I was agency side 15 years ago. And how much it has changed the volume of opportunities and calibre of speakers is unbelievable. So Susan, that is really, really good advice. So I'd love to hear from both of you. You've both been here multiple times. What keeps bringing you back? And Bryan, why don't you start? 00:02:01:14 - 00:02:31:15 Bryan Kane Sure. I think, Cannes does an incredible job of really looking at where the industry is going. So it's an opportunity to come together, as you mentioned, with, like, world class speakers. The content's incredible. But it's very forward-looking. So it's really a week where you can take a step back, reflect. And at the end of the day, it's also an opportunity to sharpen your tools where you get to take a step out of the business and really focus on learning and identifying those things that you need to to really lean into. 00:02:31:16 - 00:02:38:02 Bryan Kane So when you come home, you've got a really clear focus on what the keys are that you need to be looking at. 00:02:38:04 - 00:02:59:00 Susan Irving Yeah. Well said Bryan, if for me, you know, as a marketer, you think about the four P's, I think about it as the three C's of Cannes. Being the creative, the content and the connections that you make here. And, as Bryan said, it really is the time to to listen and get different perspectives on different businesses. 00:02:59:03 - 00:03:19:21 Susan Irving Listen to where the industry's going. And sit back and figure out what is then applicable to that, to your business. It just gives you so much hope and optimism and inspiration to see so much creativity across the board. And again, how do you bring it home to inspire your own teams and your own agencies? To get to great work. 00:03:19:23 - 00:03:21:16 Bryan Kane With. 00:03:21:18 - 00:03:39:14 Alison Simpson Very well said. And being live in Cannes means you're going to hear lots of background noise too. So that's just indicative of the level of energy that we're all surrounded by. So we're only on a couple of days into the festival, so it's still early, but I'd love to hear a particular key takeaway that you have or a presentation that really resonated with you. 00:03:39:14 - 00:03:41:10 Alison Simpson Susan, do you want to start? 00:03:41:12 - 00:04:16:18 Susan Irving Cannes was kicked off with some marketer of the year, which was Apple. And, you know, they're just a phenomenal organization. When you look at creativity and, you know, really thinking about hope and optimism and the fact that AI is is a big trend yet again. But really talking about, human emotion. And I can't deliver human connectivity and emotion and the way that Apple is just innovating and stepping forward, that constantly solving, a human problem or driving a human emotion. 00:04:16:20 - 00:04:54:17 Susan Irving The second one, we were at Salesforce speech, yesterday. And again, it was Scott Galloway, who always says it like it is, he's quite blunt and straightforward, but the biggest message I got from him was stop thinking about AI as, as a tool and start thinking about it as a collaborator, because when, human detail, and human thought combined with power of AI, your accuracy will be that much higher when you think about it as a collaborator versus a tool. 00:04:55:00 - 00:05:17:03 Bryan Kane I think from an actual sort of time spent in my first day, there's an opportunity in Cannes, in the basement, where they post all the shortlists in the press for it, so you can really dive into the work. And I just felt my tank getting filled, looking at all this incredible work from around the world and really benchmarking ourselves against the absolute best. 00:05:17:03 - 00:05:37:17 Bryan Kane Not in a category, not in a country, but just world class work. So the time spent in the basement is something that I cherish and try and make sure I squeeze some some time away as a guilty pleasure, just to sort of soak in the work for sure. I think also like in the context of some of the AI conversations, it's a theme of pretty much every talk. 00:05:38:07 - 00:06:12:04 Bryan Kane But what I've noticed, the difference between last year and this year is it's really stripped out. AI is being the idea, and it's really how did I help the idea? And really what is the role of AI? And so seeing the progression just in the 12 months since we were here last, has been really interesting. And I think that that continual evolution of us understanding how to harness the power of AI as opposed to it's a checkbox, that we need to integrate within our creative process so that that was sort of a takeaway, but it wasn't one talk, it just the theme, this sort of emerging. 00:06:12:06 - 00:06:30:12 Susan Irving What just to build on that point was interesting to think about three years ago, the conversations were what is AI and how do I even use it? And even last year it was here's some tools. Here's how you can use it safely. But you're right. This year it's how did you use AI as a tool, to make your creative process better. 00:06:30:12 - 00:06:34:20 Susan Irving So you're right, it was quite interesting. 00:06:34:21 - 00:06:49:16 Alison Simpson So you both are clearly immersing yourself in the festival and all the benefits that it brings with it. So I'd love to hear what unexpected insight or new learning that you think will shift either the future of creativity or marketing. 00:06:49:18 - 00:07:08:05 Bryan Kane I think, one thing that's emerged is the need for optimism in the world. It's come up a couple of different times. It was a theme through the show last night when they were recognizing all the Gold and Grand Prix winners, but as I was sitting with that thought, it was the important role that brands play in our lives. 00:07:08:05 - 00:07:31:01 Bryan Kane And brands have never been more important to give meaning and cultural context in a world that you know is increasingly chaotic. But that brands can be that anchor point for consumers and the need for optimism within brands, and to find ways to bring joy to people's lives, to help them, save time with something Scott Galloway was talking about. 00:07:31:06 - 00:07:41:16 Bryan Kane But the role that brands play and the importance was one where, you know, early in the week, but that was a reflection. And I think I'll sit with that through the rest of the week and build out that thought. 00:07:42:19 - 00:08:14:15 Susan Irving For me, it's also innovation. There seems to be a lot more of a trend, this year on innovation. One of the difference that, the schedule has done, they've now kind of shown you paths, that you can take that I think distills, the schedule a little bit more. But last night at the awards, just even after Bryan Ncbi won gold, they showed, a competition that they have where brands needed to solve, an innovation problem and come up with a solution for the world. 00:08:14:17 - 00:08:25:21 Susan Irving So again, what's exciting is, is leveraging creativity to come up with future innovation to solve world problems. 00:08:25:23 - 00:08:50:04 Alison Simpson And so both great insights and Bryan, building on euros, we had CMA's event case for Canada last week. And Kantar shared that only Canadians only think 13% of brands currently understand what their lives are about and the challenges they face, which is a huge opportunity to bring more positivity and purpose and have brands take a more of a leadership role in helping Canadians get to a better place in their lives. 00:08:50:04 - 00:09:04:07 Alison Simpson So nice to see the parallels. Absolut

How can marketers harness data-driven insights while navigating privacy and emerging technologies? CMA CEO Alison Simpson welcomes Jan Kestle, founder and President of Environics Analytics, to discuss why data strategies must be enterprise-led, moving from "so what?" insights to "now what?" outcomes. Their conversation covers privacy-compliant collaboration platforms that reveal which advertising works, how privacy compliance enables effective marketing, and AI's role in enhancing data interpretation. 00;00;01;23 - 00;00;06;09 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00;00;22;17 - 00;00;49;16 Alison Welcome to CMA Connect, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of marketing with industry leaders and innovators. Today, I am absolutely thrilled to welcome a true pioneer in the realms of data, statistics and marketing, Jan Nestle. Jan is the founder and president of Environics Analytics. With over five decades of experience, Jan has been at the forefront of using data and analytics to solve complex business problems and help shape the marketing landscape in Canada and beyond. 00;00;49;18 - 00;01;17;08 Alison Jan's journey is nothing short of inspirational. From her early days at the Ontario Statistical Centre to founding Environics Analytics in 2003, she is consistently pushed the boundaries of what's possible with data-driven insights. Her contributions to the industry are massive and include developing the Prism Segmentation system and the Envision Business Intelligent platform, tools that have revolutionized how marketers understand and can reach their audiences. 00;01;17;10 - 00;01;42;08 Alison In recognition of her groundbreaking work. Jan was honoured with the Canadian Marketing Association's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2022, truly cementing her status as a trailblazer in our field. In today's episode, we'll explore Jan's really fascinating career path and discuss a range of topics that are reshaping the marketing landscape. From the evolving role of data and predictive analytics, to solving business problems to navigating data privacy complexities, 00;01;42;10 - 00;02;01;23 Alison we plan to delve into the future of data-driven marketing. We're also going to touch on AI, enhanced customer journey mapping, ethical considerations and hyper-personalized marketing, and the importance of data sharing and driving business success. There is no shortage of great topics that Jan can speak to, and it is an absolute pleasure, Jan, to welcome you to CMA Connect today. 00;02;01;26 - 00;02;20;00 Jan Well, thank you very much and thank you for having me. I love working with the CMA. I think the CMA in the past few years has done an incredible job of having conversations that are very important to marketers and to the whole business community in Canada. So it's my pleasure to be with you here today, Alison. 00;02;20;02 - 00;02;40;21 Alison And well, thank you so much. Jan, I don't use the term pioneer lightly. You've been a pioneer in data statistics in the marketing professions. The fact that you've been a leading innovator in all three is also a sign that you didn't really take a traditional path to your career. You also succeeded as a woman at a time that was, very sadly, very rare. 00;02;40;24 - 00;02;52;23 Alison And I really find your story inspiring, both from a professional perspective and also from a personal perspective. I know many of our listeners would as well. So I'd love to start by having you share a little bit about your journey. 00;02;52;25 - 00;03;22;06 Jan Sure. Thank you. Well, sometimes when I think about my long career, which I guess part of what makes me a pioneer is it goes so far back, is I think about three aspects to my career. First of all, as you mentioned, I worked as a government statistician, and then I worked as a sales and product development person and eventually a leader in a company that was well-established and owned by various players in the information business. 00;03;22;08 - 00;03;41;01 Alison And then finally, in the latter part of my career, actually started a business and built that. And for some people, it's kind of like, well, how did you decide to go from a government job to leading and working in the private sector and then running a pretty interesting business in the private sector? Why did you decide to start your own business? 00;03;41;01 - 00;04;03;13 Jan And always gives me pause when I think about it that way, because to me, it's been a continuum of figuring out how data and mathematics can really help simulate realities and help people solve problems, whether it's for business or social services or, you know, how we make Canada run better? I've always been excited about being able to use information to do that. 00;04;03;18 - 00;04;32;24 Jan The truth is, I, I have a degree in applied math, which is kind of like a combination of math and physics, and I graduated in a class of four women out of 140 classmates. And it was difficult, even being, you know, a good student and high in the rankings of my class. It was difficult to to get jobs for women in those scientific, and honestly, in any business in that day and age. 00;04;32;24 - 00;05;04;18 Alison So I was very excited to take on my first job as a survey statistician and editor in the provincial government. And that was when we didn't even have computers, never mind AI. We put data on spreadsheets that was actual pieces of paper. We edited questionnaires with red pencils. We shared our work with our partner across the table to do QA, and then we added up rows and columns in order to create data that went into large statistical outputs. 00;05;04;18 - 00;05;31;18 JAn I always say I got really good training on thinking about what the data are telling you and what's missing and what makes sense by being right down in the trenches. Eventually, in that particular role, I moved on to doing a lot of negotiating for the priorities for Ontario and the federal provincial context. But eventually I was leading that organization, and I, I enjoyed very much the work that I got to do in the policy side. 00;05;31;20 - 00;06;03;28 Jan But my choices for a new challenge were to leave the statistics and the data part of of the work and move into more of a government policy job. But I had the opportunity to go and work for the first company in Canada that took data and demographics and created customized versions of that that businesses could use. Compusearch was the pioneering company in that field, and they'd been around for about 15 years and mainly working for retailers. 00;06;04;00 - 00;06;27;07 Jan But they started to branch out and they recruited someone who really understood packaged goods, and they understood someone who worked in the financial sector. And they came and recruited me as someone who worked with governments and not-for-profits. And I joined, actually only took me like five days to make a decision to leave my pension and all that government work and take this opportunity. 00;06;27;07 - 00;07;02;23 Jan And I went into sales and I'd never been in sales. I'd done a lot of business and relationships, but my first job there was selling the data that they had produced back to the government sector, and that was exciting. And led me to an opportunity to work on the product side, is how do we take data and turn it into information, because many organizations can't really invest in building data and doing the work from the ground up. You actually have to turn data into a product or a service that can be actionable, that can make a difference to a community or to a business. 00;07;02;23 - 00;07;26;00 Jan So I went from being the statistician to being the sales person and understanding my customer's needs, and then going into product, and then eventually to president of that organization during its largest period of growth, which was the time period when people got computers on their desks, desktop computers, we went into desktop mapping. It was just the very beginning. 00;07;26;02 - 00;07;52;06 Jan It wasn't even the CRM era. It was what we call database marketing. When we were starting to mine data and combine the kind of data that brands had about their customers, quite limited, with the data that we had about postal codes. So I always think, you know, all these parts of this journey really enabled me to think about how to make data help people make good decisions. 00;07;52;08 - 00;08;21;26 Jan And eventually Compusearch was sold a few times and, and, you know, kind of went the route of what often happens with little businesses when they become successful. They they kind of became a part of selling software. And you know, a more bundled solution. And a few of us had a lot of feedback from our former customers to say, we really want people who focus on the data and the customized solutions or implementing the standard solutions in a customized way. 00;08;21;26 - 00;08;52;21 Jan And so, you know, the story is pretty well known. I decided to start a new business basically replicating building the data, but also helping people understand how to use the data. And that's what we started Environics Analytics. Our funding came from the traditional market research company, Environics Research, that had built a niche for itself, not only measuring political polling and consumer research, but measuring people's values and psychographics. 00;08;52;21 - 00;09;25;26 Jan And so they had this idea of bringing those two worlds together. And so Environics and ourselves are a little team of former geo demographers started Environics Analytics. Twenty years, 300 people, you know, a thousand customers and lots of databases and lots of data development. I still feel like we're continui

How are tariff disputes and economic uncertainty reshaping Canadian consumer behaviour? In this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes Scott Megginson, President of Kantar Canada and Sean Martin, General Manager at Numerator. Their conversation explores the nuances of the "Buy Canadian" sentiment, its impact on domestic and international brands, and provides strategic advice for marketers navigating this complex landscape. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:19 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:21 - 00:00:46:03 Alison In today's episode, we're tackling a topic that's been dominating headlines and boardroom discussions alike. The shifting landscape of Canadian consumer behaviour in the wake of recent tariff disputes, and the global political and economic uncertainty. Joining me today are two of Canada's top insights and analytics leaders. Scott Megginson, president of Kantar Canada, is a veteran with over 30 years of market research. 00:00:46:05 - 00:01:14:17 Alison He's held significant roles at Angus Reid Group, Warner Lambert Canada, PepsiCo Canada and has led Kantar Canada for the past 15 years. Scott, also a regular industry speaker, the past Chair of Queen's University Dean's Council of Arts and Science and the founding president of the Canadian Advisory Council for the Insights Association. Joining Scott and me today is Sean Martin, general manager at Numerator, and a trusted advisor to many of the largest companies across North America. 00:01:14:19 - 00:01:35:09 Alison Sean also started his career working for leading brands and held senior roles at Mars, GSK and Procter Gamble before taking the lead role at Numerator, where he's led the Canadian business for five years. Scott can be sharing key insights from what Kantar is seeing about Canadians perspective and planned behaviours, and how they're changing as a result of the chaos that's emerging from south of the border. 00:01:35:11 - 00:02:01:23 Alison He's also covering important considerations for brands. Sean will complement this by highlighting the actual ways that Canadians' behaviours have changed when it comes to their purchase decisions and actions. Together, the three of us are diving into how Canadian consumers are responding to the call to buy Canadian, as well as the risks and opportunities for both domestic and international brands, and the very delicate balance between patriotic messaging and authentic brand positioning. 00:02:02:01 - 00:02:16:01 Alison From the pitfalls of maple washing to the surprising resilience of shopping habits, our guests will share their latest research and offer valuable advice for marketers navigating through these turbulent waters. Welcome Scott and Sean, it is an absolute pleasure to have you here today. 00:02:16:02 - 00:02:17:02 Scott Thank you Alison. 00:02:17:04 - 00:02:19:09 Sean Thank you Alison. Wonderful to be here. 00:02:19:11 - 00:02:28:17 Alison Now, I'd love to have you both answer my first question. Can you each share what your organizations are doing to track Canadian consumer behaviour? And, Scott, why don't you kick things off? 00:02:28:22 - 00:02:29:15 Sean We've been looking 00:02:29:15 - 00:02:59:14 Scott at different ways to to really understand what Canadian consumers are feeling, because there's just there's so much out there and there's so much in chat and social and everywhere else. And that's one of the first things that we started looking at, was, using our, we call it DX analytics, but really, analyzing search and social signals to get a good understanding of how Canadian consumers are seeing brands. 00:02:59:15 - 00:03:28:15 Scott I mean, do they see them as Canadian or not Canadian? With all the confusion of being in Canada and product of Canada and such, but also the sentiment, and that's been giving us some useful insights, both for Canadian brands and for multinationals. Secondly, there's a lot of polling and a lot of attitudinal data floating around out there, but we wanted to go a little bit deeper, and we've been engaging our Canada Monitor team to really look at the trends and how the values have shifted underneath that. 00:03:28:17 - 00:03:46:21 Scott And we've just launched a global study. We call it Barometer. And we did this during Covid as well. But it's a global study that we're going to have results for pretty soon and we'll be sharing them out with people and how consumers in different markets are really seeing tariffs and and what their responses are and with some of their shopping habits. 00:03:46:23 - 00:04:10:19 Scott And the third piece I think is important. It's been going back what we've learned. I mean, we've been through different crises before. I mentioned Covid. We've gone through different financial crises in the past as well. And we have a lot of learnings for brands and for advertising that we've gone back to look at and pull the dust off a bit, but also try to see which are relevant to bring back to the market for consideration. 00:04:10:20 - 00:04:13:23 Scott So those are your three areas for us basically. 00:04:14:01 - 00:04:27:01 Alison That's great. Scott. It will be fascinating to see how the global study around how countries around the world are reacting to tariffs. That will be very valuable insights for our listeners and certainly for Canadian brands and businesses. And Sean, what about you? 00:04:27:02 - 00:04:56:07 Sean Yeah. Thanks, Alison. For for those that you don't know Numerator we are the largest single source data lake in Canada. And so in a nutshell we collect 12 million receipts from 165,000 Canadians, including Amazon purchases, Walmart purchases as well as hundreds of demographics. And we put it all into our data lake. And with that, we seek to understand what people are actually doing with their purchases and how their opinions are changing, how their sentiment changes, and how it's impacting purchases. 00:04:56:09 - 00:05:29:15 Sean As it specifically relates to this, this Buy Canadian and tariff phenomenon, we've gone ahead and segmented our panel based on shoppers; claimed sentiment around their intentionality. Therefore, we now have segments for people that claim to buy Canadian, who want to avoid U.S. retailers or avoid U.S. brands. And so we're working with our clients to not only understand how their consumers are thinking about it, where they sit in this range, but also tracking their actual purchases and seeing if the sentiments they claim are results in real actions at the store. 00:05:29:17 - 00:05:54:10 Alison And that's a really powerful part of the conversation we can have today. It's one thing to understand how Canadians across the country are feeling and planning to behave, but to actually be able to back that up with actual change in behaviour will make for a very fascinating conversation. So thank you both for being here today. Now, Scott, what is your research showing when it comes to Canadian sentiment towards Canadian brands versus American brands versus international brands? 00:05:54:12 - 00:06:20:22 Scott This is an interesting one, Alison. And we're just starting to get into it. I'll share an example from coffee. What's more Canadian than coffee, right? But we're now digging into, ten different categories and different brands across this. And the first learning was that it's not that black and white, and it's not a clear correlation between how consumers see brands. 00:06:20:22 - 00:06:38:20 Scott So let's call it provenance or how Canadian a brand is, or created a Canadian index, you know, from 0 to 100 of how Canadian your brand is seen. And then we looked at sentiment as well. So positive or negative. So what's associated with that? And we're getting this from search and social like I mentioned before. And it was really interesting. 00:06:38:21 - 00:06:58:12 Scott Let's take a case of a few different brands here. And you have a brand like Second Cup. And if you look at it, Second Cup has become even more Canadian in association recently. I think a lot of that had to do with This Hour Has 22 Minutes. They have that viral thing and that's one of the brands that they called out. 00:06:58:14 - 00:07:24:08 Scott And, but we saw that their sentiment hadn't changed versus a year ago. Now meanwhile, it has, because back in the end of last year, their sentiment took a nosedive due to some, let's just say, political statements of one of their franchisee's owners. And it was, it made the news and it took a dive. But what's happened to Second Cup is they have, shot right back up to where they were. 00:07:24:08 - 00:07:50:10 Scott So they've recovered their sentiment and been seen as more Canadian. Then you have the big brands like Tim Hortons, which is, with all the scrutiny, is being seen as a little less Canadian as people look into ownership. But their sentiment hasn't changed that much. People love their Timmie's. And there's almost the same from McDonald's. I mean, McDonald's was never considered a Canadian brand, but their sentiment hasn't changed much, meaning, 00:07:50:11 - 00:08:21:09 Scott or you could interpret, that it's not just about being Canadian. And that's what we're seeing with the maple washing. It's a lot more than that for a brand. The last example of that is Starbucks. And Starbucks, clearly not a Canadian brand. I mean, what could be more Seattle, than Starbucks? But their sentiment has really, really improved. So this tells us that there's, just using a microcosm here of coffee, that there's room for all brands to improve their relationships with consumers, whether they're Canadian or not. 00:08:21:09 - 00:08:26:12 Scott And it's about getting the messaging right and the servicing right and delivering great

How are successful Canadian brands adapting to today's rapidly changing market? In this episode of CMA Connect, CMA CEO Alison Simpson sits down with Steven Allmen, Executive Vice President of Strategy and Partnerships at CAA National. They explore strategies for staying relevant and growing in Canada, from successful pivots to cautionary tales like Hudson's Bay. Discover the evolving role of trust in brand loyalty, what it truly means to be a Canadian brand today, and how companies respond to shifting consumer behaviours in the face of economic pressures. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:21:19 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:21:21 - 00:00:44:22 Alison In today's episode, we are exploring how one of Canada's oldest brands has evolved to stay relevant and grow for over 100 years. Clearly, that's not an easy feat, especially when you think about how much the world and Canadians have changed over that period. I am absolutely delighted to welcome Steve Allmen, the Executive Vice-President of strategy and partnerships with Canadian Automobile Association, who is joining me today. 00:00:45:00 - 00:01:15:02 Alison Before joining the CAA National, Steve held senior leadership roles in loyalty, retail, telecom and financial services, working for great businesses like Amia, Aeroplan and HBC, to name a few. With expertise in strategic alliances, program design and business development, Steve focuses on driving value through partnerships, data driven insights and loyalty marketing. His diverse background really reflects a passion for delivering growth and transformative results, and this work in the CAA is the latest example. 00:01:15:06 - 00:01:36:01 Alison Today, Steve and I are going to dig into what it takes to stay relevant and grow as a business and brand in Canada. Whether your brand has been around for decades or is in more nascent stages, there is absolutely lots of valuable learning that you can benefit from in our conversation. We'll also cover when you should pivot and futureproof your business by changing what's working well for your company in the past, and that's never an easy decision. 00:01:36:03 - 00:01:52:05 Alison We'll talk about the crucial role trust plays and what it means to be a Canadian brand, amidst the current political and economic upheaval. The CAA also has a unique lens into how Canadians are changing their behaviours across the country, which is valuable for all the marketers who have tuned in today. Welcome, Steve. 00:01:52:07 - 00:01:54:03 Steve Thanks, Alison. Great to be here. 00:01:54:05 - 00:02:10:04 Alison So, Steve, let's start with what's going on today and the recent resurgence of Canadian patriotism. I'd love you to share how CAA has seen Canadians adopting their behaviours in the face of tariffs and the increased loyalty to our country. And also, are you seeing any regional differences? 00:02:10:06 - 00:02:30:05 Steve Yeah. Thanks, Alison. It's a, it's a great topic. It's sort of an unfortunate topic that we have to cover today. But the reality is we're all living it. So one of the things that we've seen at CAA, I think as much as anybody else is we're very happy that we've got Canadian in our name, because it makes it very easy for people to understand who we are. 00:02:30:07 - 00:02:57:23 Steve We're we're a diverse group of clubs across Canada. We represent about 7.4 million Canadian members. We call them members, not as much consumers, but members of our program. We're very proud of the fact that we are coast to coast with offices from BC to Atlantic Canada. What we're seeing as much as anything else, is a lot of clarity around travel, a lot of clarity around, you know, the importance of being Canadian and a lot of pride. 00:02:58:01 - 00:03:26:12 Steve I can't quote all the numbers for you right now because we're still learning them as we go along. We are certainly seeing a dip in U.S. travel. We're certainly seeing an uptick in European, Caribbean, Mexico travel. So CAA is not just a roadside business. We're also a travel business. And so we have a pretty good sense as to what's going on from what our members are researching, what our travel agents are hearing from their consumers, and how we're promoting the business. 00:03:26:14 - 00:03:51:15 Steve It doesn't mean we're not promoting U.S. partners, but we're very aware of the fact that Canadians have changed their travel behaviour. One of the things I'm going to be most interested to see is because CAA is part of a North America wide alliance with Triple-A, which is very much the same business as CAA, we get a lot of trans-border traffic, so we get Americans coming up to Canada, we get Canadians going down to the United States. 00:03:51:17 - 00:04:12:19 Steve And in essence, if you break down as a CAA member in the middle of Tennessee and you phone CAA, a nice Triple A truck will show up. If you break down in the middle of Ontario and you're a Triple-A member, the same happens. So with summer travel coming up, it's going to be really interesting to see what impact that has on our business. 00:04:13:02 - 00:04:42:01 Steve Wha,t what impact that has on our call rates and what impact that has just on our forecasting for the future. We don't know yet. We're still learning. The only other thing I'd say is we've got some great partners, many of whom are Canadian businesses. And so we're very much promoting them. Again, we're not doing anything to stop people from coming to our partners, but we're very proud of some of our Canadian partners and promoting them as we go through the motions of whatever is next going to come out of the United States and the government. 00:04:42:03 - 00:04:52:16 Alison Now you highlighted some of the non-U.S. destinations that Canadians are now choosing Caribbean and others. Are we seeing them also booking more vacations in Canada? 00:04:52:18 - 00:05:16:14 Steve Yeah, it's a great it's a great question. I think we're going to start to see a lot more road tripping, where we're hearing a lot more about it. We still do a lot of regional partners, very much regional partners that have the flavour of B.C. or the flavour of Atlantic Canada. Again, I don't have final numbers yet. It might be an interesting thing to revisit it in a year, and then we can measure against it. 00:05:16:15 - 00:05:38:10 Steve But we certainly are having members asking about, what can I do in Niagara Falls? What can I do in beautiful Victoria? Where can I go in P.E.I.? And again, some of those are self-serving events versus using a travel agent. But I think we're going to see a real uptick in consumers either renting a car, we've got RV partners, 00:05:38:10 - 00:05:56:16 Steve We've got hotel partners, we've got dining partners. Regional events, regional fairs and all those other things that are really built for our members. So I'm very confident we're going to see an uptick in those. Just everything you're reading in the press, it makes sense. And our consumers are very representative of the Canadian population. 00:05:56:18 - 00:06:12:16 Alison Now, we're obviously seeing a huge Buy Canadian movement from your perspective with living, working with a brand that's been a part of Canada for 112 years. What does it mean to be a Canadian brand and how has that evolved during the current political and economic upheaval? 00:06:12:18 - 00:06:35:00 Steve Yeah, it's it's a really interesting time for us. You know, CAA is built on a couple of things. We're built on our very traditional roadside business. We're also very much built on advocacy and safety and trust. And I'll give you a couple of examples. You know, we recently did, for example, for those of you who are EV drivers, I'm not, 00:06:35:00 - 00:06:59:18 Steve But for those of you who are EV drivers, your biggest thing that you're worried about is range. So we did a very Canadian thing. We tested cars in the winter. That might seem unusual, but a lot of the EV cars that are out there have their ranges calculated based on California. We're not California. So in February, we actually did a test drive with using 14 EVs from beautiful Ottawa to even more beautiful Mont Tremblant. 00:06:59:20 - 00:07:22:03 Steve We actually drove the cars until they were empty of electrical charge and fuel and wanted to see how long would they take? What was the charging time to reboot them? How did we need to kind of get all those little nuances working so that people are comfortable? And we did it with a lot of Canadian pride. We had people from all over Canada driving these vehicles up into Mont Tremblant. 00:07:22:04 - 00:07:40:01 Steve It was fantastic. So the press that comes out of it is very much about CAA is trustworthy. And here's a Canadian view of EVs. So Canadian pride comes up. And again we are the Canadian Automobile Association, so we're reminded of it every day. 00:07:40:03 - 00:08:01:00 Alison So now let's take a step back. Thriving is a business. For 112 years it was to state the obvious very, very rare. And it absolutely has to provide valuable learning for marketers, and the company at any stage. So can you share how the CAA has evolved? And we'll narrow the timeframe down to the last decade, relevance and driving growth. 00:08:01:02 - 00:08:40:06 Steve Yeah. It's you know, we are 100 and I think we're 110 plus years old. And we started in a time of horse and carriage and bicycles and cars that were a little bit rickety. So we have evolved. I think the biggest thing that we've looked at is really the importance of trust around the data that we gather on our members and how we communicate with our members as we've migrated from very much a direct mail house - all of our clubs were very big on direct mail, either for acquisitio

In this live episode of CMA Connect for CMA Marketing Week 2025, Alison Simpson the CEO of the CMA welcomes Neil Patel, New York Times bestselling author, and the Founder of NP Digital. Their conversation covers various topics from the impact of AI on marketing, and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation, to the changing nature of brand control and exposing the myth of controlling narratives. Listen in as Alison and Neil discuss the evolving landscape of the marketing profession in Canada and decide for yourself if brands still matter.  00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:05 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shift that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:07 - 00:00:45:09 Alison So it's an absolute pleasure to welcome everyone in the room today, as well as the hundreds of Canadians that are joining us from across the country to this live version of CMA connect. As we've heard throughout the morning, marketing isn't just changing. It is absolutely being redefined in real time. And it's so important to take time to reflect and digest and make sure that our pivoting makes sense. 00:00:45:11 - 00:01:07:03 Alison It's absolutely, very much a period of test and learn as well. And the most recent panel did a phenomenal job of sharing how that's working for them as well. And they both panels today have really given us a lot to reflect on. So building on that theme, I'm thrilled to be joined by Neil Patel and Years time bestselling author and also the founder of NP digital. 00:01:07:05 - 00:01:32:16 Alison He's going to be joining me on stage momentarily, but while he's coming up, I will share a little bit about Neil. Neil's full service digital marketing agency has helped industry giants like Microsoft and Google, just to name a couple, grow through revolutionary marketing strategies. He also has a marketing school podcast that attracts over 1 million listeners monthly. The United Nations recognized Neil as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs under the age of 35. 00:01:32:18 - 00:01:49:15 Alison Oh, and The Wall Street Journal cited him as a top influencer on the web, just around things out. He made Forbes list of the top ten marketers. You know what? I thought my career was going pretty well until I started to learn a little bit more about Neil. So, you know, I've had the pleasure of meeting and doing a CME session with him last year. 00:01:49:15 - 00:01:52:18 Alison So it's great to welcome you back to Canada. 00:01:52:20 - 00:01:56:02 Neil Thank you. Thank you. 00:01:56:04 - 00:02:03:23 Alison So we're going to jump right in. What are the biggest rules you've seen rewritten. And then how are you going to rate us on our ability to adapt to those rules. 00:02:04:01 - 00:02:25:02 Neil Yeah. So when you're thinking about the rules of marketing, people just used to assume marketing wasn't very black and white. I'm not talking about from the creative aspect, but in marketing, in general, people are like, okay, you spend money on clicks and you get traffic to your website, you generate sales, you rank on Google, you get clicks, you generate sales. 00:02:25:02 - 00:02:48:06 Neil And one of the biggest rules has been changed in marketing is platforms now are trying to optimize keeping people on their own platform, their own site, instead of sending people off to your website. Marcus believe that you would have to have people coming to your website to drive revenue and sales. You can now purchase on Instagram or TikTok without ever leaving that platform. 00:02:48:09 - 00:03:13:04 Neil The business generates revenue and Instagram and TikTok, so have the user. They sell them more products, more services. So I would say the biggest rule that I'm seeing being rewritten right now is traditional form of marketing. Of sending them to a business to generate revenue is no longer the case. A business can make money on multiple platforms, and it's no longer about getting people over to your brand, your website. 00:03:13:10 - 00:03:22:14 Neil It's more so capturing their attention on whatever platform they are on and then selling them right then and there on that platform natively. 00:03:22:16 - 00:03:26:17 Alison And how are you writing marketers overall in our ability to adapt to that? 00:03:26:19 - 00:03:53:09 Neil Marketers have been adapting really well. What we typically see is the marketers who work for SMEs tend to adapt first, and then the marketers who work at large corporations typically adapt second, because it just takes time and energy. And when you're a big corporation, you know, that's publicly traded, that it has $100 billion market cap. It takes time to make adjustments versus when you're a five person start. 00:03:53:11 - 00:04:00:23 Alison Now you also work with a lot of big tech organizations. So are they a bit more agile or they're still suffering from the same? 00:04:01:01 - 00:04:04:23 Neil They're still suffering from the same thing that all the other corporations are. 00:04:05:01 - 00:04:16:14 Alison So, Neil, as we look to the future, there are some experts out there that are starting to question will brands continue to be relevant? So in your opinion, will Rand still matter in an age of algorithms and hyper personalization? 00:04:16:16 - 00:04:39:00 Neil AI brands, I think, matter more than ever before. Think of AI overviews. You do a search you may get mentioned in a overviews you don't necessarily always get a click back to your website. You do a search on ChatGPT. You may see a brand or a product or service recommended. You may end up purchasing later on. You may not purchase at all, but it's very rare that you're actually clicking over to the website. 00:04:39:06 - 00:04:57:07 Neil You see a real on Instagram or video. Whatever you want and calling it short form. See a product or service mention you don't go and buy right away. In most cases. That brand recognition, though, is what eventually leads to a sale. In marketing, they call something the rule of seven. Or there's this thing called the Rule of seven. 00:04:57:07 - 00:05:24:03 Neil When someone sees or interacts with your brand seven times, they're much more likely to engage, become a customer, evangelize. And we started looking at price points in both B2C and B2B. Of course, the cheaper the price point, the less interaction someone needed with the brand before they purchase. But when we looked at price points across the whole board for both B2B and B2C, the average number of interactions someone has with the brand when we did a study was around 11. 00:05:24:08 - 00:05:34:22 Neil So branding is more important than ever, because if you're not touching people multiple times and you're not saying top of mind, you're less likely to drive that sale when they're ready to make that decision. 00:05:35:00 - 00:05:56:14 Alison Now, awareness and trust in a brand is obviously yes. We heard the panel talk about the emotional part of a brand. It's there's always going to be product features and benefits. But as humans we react emotionally. And we also heard a lot about authenticity. What else would you add to what makes a brand as important or even more important today? 00:05:56:16 - 00:06:12:05 Neil So if you want your brand to be super important, I would say you got to figure out an angle. You know, trust, authenticity. These are all a lot of things that markers talk about. And it's been there for a very long time. But what are you doing that's different? So I'll give you a great example of this right. 00:06:12:07 - 00:06:37:01 Neil I'm listening in. I'm from the States. I'm not familiar with as many Canadian brands as you guys may be. So one of the panelists before me was from Farm Girl. Never heard of it. I have kids, don't give them cereal in the morning. Why? It's terrible for you in most cases, right? The advantage you guys have here in Canada is you guys typically have cleaner ingredients. 00:06:37:03 - 00:07:01:00 Neil Our box of FrootLoops is much worse, at least from what we see on Instagram Reels when they compare versus what the Canadian version of FrootLoops is. All right, so when I saw Farm Girl, the first thing I did, even if there's a tariff for me, I tried to purchase it on Amazon, I think was like 20 something dollars, USD per package. 00:07:01:00 - 00:07:17:01 Neil I added three to a cart, and then I was like, I'm like, wait, I'm here for extra like few hours. Can I just go to the grocery store and pick some up? Because my suitcase is half empty? I'm literally here for a day, right? Like I should just go to the grocery store and just see if I can shove a ton in. 00:07:17:03 - 00:07:54:05 Neil I don't know what's going to happen at the customs or I'm Global Entry, so hopefully I don't get any beef, but that was a unique angle, solving a problem that people have. When I grew up, I eat cereal and my parents didn't know any better. Immigrants from India, you know, they look at it as like, anything's great. We're not living on the street, you know, give your kid whatever is on sale, affordable cut coupons, etc. at this point in time, we're much more educated as parents then I would say that the previous generations were, and it has nothing to do with intellect. 00:07:54:05 - 00:08:17:21 Neil I think a lot of it has to do with the data and the social platforms pushing out so much information that we're able to consume it and learn more. But going back to it, that brand stood out to me. She's booming. Great growth. I'm happy for her. But as a consumer, her success of her generating tons of revenue and growing fast is why I would buy the product. 00:08:18:02 - 00:08:38:10 Neil I'm buying the product. You know, either it's going to be Amazon or in-store if I can find it, but I'm buying the product for one simple reason a unique value p

Where do you stand on Trump and the tariffs? CMA CEO Alison Simpson welcomes Gregory Jack, SVP of Public Affairs, Strategic Communication & Market Research, and Naumi Haque, SVP of Research – Market Strategy & Understanding, both from Ipsos. Their timely discussion highlights an Ipsos member survey quantifying Canadians' sentiments about today's economic and political climate. Learn how Canadians unite to defend the country's economy and sovereignty and discover how you can stand with your fellow Canadians. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:21 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:23 - 00:00:58:00 Alison We are certainly living in interesting times with tariffs and the 51st state nonsense creating uncertainty, we're seeing Canadians come together to defend our economy and also our sovereignty. In today's episode, we are sharing new research that quantifies how Canadians are reacting to Trump, tariffs and the turmoil that they're both creating. The ongoing study by CMA member Ipsos is tracking Canadians' sentiment and how it's quickly evolving on many key measures, including buying Canadian and how Canadian consumers are balancing their desire to support local brands with concerns about rising costs and affordability. 00:00:58:01 - 00:01:24:21 Alison Joining me today are Naumi Haque, Senior Vice President of Market Strategy and Understanding, and Greg Jack, Senior Vice President of Public Affairs, Strategic Communication Market Research, both from Ipsos. Naumi is an Insights Leader with over two decades of experience in the research and advisory industries across several great companies, including Google. In his current role, Naumi is managing customer research projects for companies in a variety of sectors including retail, cannabis and tech. 00:01:24:23 - 00:01:45:07 Alison He was at the forefront of global research that tracked the impact of Covid 19 on citizens and consumers, and is now leading a tracking study on how Canadians are responding to Trump and tariffs. Greg leads the Ottawa Public Affairs practice for Ipsos. He's also a Boomerang member of their team, having first worked there as a VP in their Calgary office in 2019 to 2023. 00:01:45:08 - 00:02:06:05 Alison Greg's held a variety of roles in the federal government and also worked for Suncor and the Government of Alberta early in his career. He brings extensive experience in both market research and helping brands and governments get their message out. Today, Greg, Naomi and I are digging into the research findings to discuss the impact that the economic and political uncertainty are having on Canadians. 00:02:06:07 - 00:02:27:02 Alison We'll discuss intriguing generational differences and also how Canadian consumers' attitudes towards US-based companies that are operating in Canada are changing. We'll highlight the opportunities and challenges that the rise of Canadian patriotism and the shifting sentiment and marketplace can represent for marketers. Welcome, Greg and Naumi, it's a pleasure to have you both with us today. 00:02:27:04 - 00:02:27:21 Gregory Thank you. 00:02:27:23 - 00:02:29:08 Naumi Thanks for having us. 00:02:29:10 - 00:02:39:15 Alison So Naumi, I'd love you to kick things off. How has the "Buy Canadian" sentiment evolved since the start of the US Canada trade tensions? And what implications does this have for marketers? 00:02:39:17 - 00:03:03:07 Naumi For sure. I mean, it's been, it's been a crazy month. So there's definitely the "Buy Canadian sentiment", is going strong. There's actually, you know, we see two things happening, right? There's patriotic purchasing, so people trying to buy Canadian or avoid American. And there's another shift happening with consumers, which is that we see just general conservatism. People are pulling back a little bit on spending because of all the uncertainty that's happening around the tariffs and the impact on prices. 00:03:03:08 - 00:03:23:13 Naumi So in terms of how it's evolving, we're definitely seeing the sentiment grow. So it's not just Buy Canadian, it's avoid American. And right now we're looking at the two thirds of Canadians that say they're making an effort to buy Canadian. And that's gone up from just over half of Canadians about a month ago. And on the boycotting American side, we're also seeing growth in that number. 00:03:23:14 - 00:03:46:07 Naumi So it's 58% of Canadians, right now are saying they're avoiding American products. And that's up from 47% a month ago. And then there's also, you know, about a third of Canadians that are stopping traveling from the US. So there's just right now a lot of, I think, angst with Canadians in terms of the US. And then there's the other part that I mentioned, the sort of being a little bit more conservative. 00:03:46:09 - 00:04:16:18 Naumi We see Canadians generally pulling back on spending. So about a third of them right now are telling us that in the past, two weeks, they've pulled back on spending or more tightly budgeted their money because of everything that's happening with tariffs and uncertainty. So it's definitely, you know, a strong sentiment amongst Canadians. It's growing. And I think the implication for marketers is there's there's obviously a risk if you're an American company, there's an opportunity if you're a Canadian company and can sort of communicate your Canadian credentials. 00:04:16:20 - 00:04:39:02 Naumi And then there's also this focus on value. But to to capture some of those people that are pulling back on spending. But ultimately, the bottom line I think for marketers is that, you know, like I said, the last month had been crazy. It's been crazy for us as market researchers, but it's been crazy for consumers. And the most important thing to remember is that right now, all of those brand decisions that consumers are making, they're they're sort of up in the air, right. 00:04:39:03 - 00:04:59:20 Naumi Like we we as marketers, we spend a lot of time thinking about, oh, how do we how do we break through? Right. How do we get our message to resonate with Canadians? And, you know, in some categories we see that it's really tough to break through. Right. Like in CPG categories, it can be 60, 70% of people are on autopilot. Well, right now that inertia around brands is broken. 00:05:00:00 - 00:05:07:03 Naumi And so it's an opportunity. And I mean, we're expecting to be very busy as market researchers in the next little bit. Let's put it that way. 00:05:07:05 - 00:05:18:04 Alison It's amazing. And it's moving at such warp speed. It's incredible. I'd love to hear if you're seeing any regional differences, because typically in Canada we would see regional differences. But I don't know that that's applying in the situation. 00:05:18:06 - 00:05:37:09 Naumi I mean, the sentiment is across the country, but we definitely do see regional differences. What's interesting is, you know, even in places where do you think, oh, well, you know, them a little bit holding back like in Quebec. Right. It's even people in Quebec now rallying around Canada and sort of that national pride. So it really is coast to coast. 00:05:37:11 - 00:05:54:06 Gregory You know, I think Naumi really hit the nail on the head in. What we're seeing in Quebec is fascinating because all of a sudden, Québecers are rallying around the Canadian flag, and we are seeing that in some of the voting intentions during the federal election in our polls. And we're also seeing it anecdotally in stories that you see in the media and in our numbers. 00:05:54:08 - 00:06:06:02 Gregory The real difference, as we're going to discuss, I think, is not regional but generational. But Canadians from coast to coast have really signed up to this Buy Canadian, Avoid American movement that we're seeing emerging. 00:06:06:04 - 00:06:18:14 Alison That's a great shout out, Greg, and I'd love you to drill down on that and really help our listeners understand the generational differences that we are seeing based on the current economic situation and how this is also impacting marketing strategies. 00:06:18:16 - 00:06:40:01 Gregory Right. And Naomi and I wrote a while ago paper called "Nuanced Nationalism", and the paper talked about how the nationalist movement or the Buy Canadian, Avoid American movement has significant generational differences. And what we're finding is that it's the Baby Boomers who are leading the charge here. Younger Canadians are more likely to put price over patriotism. Now, that's not to say that younger Canadians aren't behind this. 00:06:40:01 - 00:06:58:15 Gregory They are. And these numbers are, are still showing majorities in most groups. All age groups, in fact, have been saying that they've been changing their behaviour and they've been paying attention. But there are some generational differences. Right now, for example, 66% of Baby Boomers say that we can never again trust the Americans the same way. And that's just 45% of Gen Z. 00:06:58:17 - 00:07:15:00 Gregory We see 80% of Boomers saying that despite the current dispute with the U.S. is going to bring Canadians together, which we've been saying it's been doing, j  ust 63% of Gen Z are saying that. And so these are these are, you know, big differences that do suggest there's there's some nuanced nationalism happening. And we see this in purchasing, too. 00:07:15:01 - 00:07:45:19 Gregory While 7 in 10 Canadians say that we should stand up to Trump with retaliatory tariffs, even if that means Canadians have to pay more, that number goes up to eight in ten among Boomers, and it's just five in ten among Gen Z. So Naumi alluded earlier to how Canadians are pulling back their spending. And really the group that is most affected by this, who may have the most to lose

Why should Canadian marketers care about AI today? Join CMA CEO Alison Simpson as she sits down with Steve Mast, Co-Founder and Partner at Twenty44, to uncover fresh research on how ready (or not) Canada's marketing community is for AI. Discover practical examples of AI in action, learn how to tackle governance and training gaps, and get a glimpse into the future of AI-driven marketing. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:08 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:10 - 00:00:50:02 Alison In today's episode, we will share a new research on how the Canadian marketing community is preparing for and embracing AI. It's definitely one of the hottest topics in our profession, and we have new Canadian insights and data on how ready or not marketers are. We also have valuable learning on how they're activating the opportunities that AI represents. Joining me today is Steve Mast, the co-founder and partner of Twenty44, the company who led the research with the CMA. 00:00:50:04 - 00:01:12:09 Alison Steve is a marketing leader and entrepreneur who built his career and a number of very successful businesses by focusing on innovation and helping transform organizations'  business models so that they can meet the needs and demands of today's economy. Steve didn't follow a traditional path. He was educated as an architect and began his career as a video game designer before joining Delvinia, 00:01:12:09 - 00:01:36:14 Alison a market research and data collection company. Over the next 20 years, Steve built their digital marketing and product teams, launching three innovative new businesses before selling the businesses in 2021. Throughout his career, Steve has consistently given back to our profession, including serving on the CMA board for eight years, two as chair. So, Steve, thank you very much for all you do to give back to our profession as well. 00:01:36:16 - 00:01:56:21 Alison Today, Steve and I are digging into the research findings to discuss how ready Canadian marketers are for AI. We'll share key learning from the study and talk about the AI adoption curve. We're also going to discuss the massive opportunity that AI represents for smart marketers to leverage, to lead, and to own AI in a bigger way across organizations. 00:01:56:23 - 00:01:58:08 Alison Welcome, Steve. 00:01:58:10 - 00:02:04:04 Steve Thank you, Alison, and thank you for that lovely introduction as well. And it is always a pleasure to spend time with you. 00:02:04:06 - 00:02:10:19 Alison The feeling is very mutual. So we're going to start by having you share who participated in the study. 00:02:10:21 - 00:02:29:20 Steve I think before we get into maybe the Who, maybe start a little bit with the how we did it, just to make sure everybody's clear in terms of the approach we took. So one of the things we really wanted to do was not only collect the data and get the sort of the statistical side of things, but also get a little sense of how people were really feeling. 00:02:29:20 - 00:02:45:23 Steve So we really wanted to combine a bit of a quantitative and qualitative approach to this as well. The other thing we wanted to do too, because this is a subject around AI, we were like, well, let's use some of these fantastic AI-based tools to be able to collect the information and conduct the research as well. 00:02:46:00 - 00:03:11:21 Steve And I'm proud to say it's a Canadian company called Nexxt and their platform, Inca, which we ended up using to actually collect the data as well. So the CMA marketing community, as normally did not disappoint in terms of providing us with some fantastic results and ideas as well. The good thing was we really aimed to get obviously a broad cross-section of the community, and we absolutely did that. 00:03:11:21 - 00:03:40:09 Steve So there was kind of like about a 50/50 split between brands and service company, agencies as well. Really good representation across sort of companies. Size almost 50% were kind of that 1 to 250 employees, but a quarter of them that participated  worked at organizations that had 5000 plus employees. So really good representation. I'd also say things like age, job function, those kinds of things. 00:03:40:09 - 00:03:50:19 Steve So surprisingly enough, too, we had very, very senior people, even some CMOs participated, as well as right down to kind of the manager level as well. So really good cross-section of people. 00:03:51:00 - 00:03:59:12 Alison So I'd love to hear what were the top insights from the study and which ones did you expect and what were you really surprised by? 00:03:59:13 - 00:04:22:22 Steve There was really kind of a couple things sort of jumped out and maybe they weren't necessarily surprises. They were probably more we kind of expected it. But there is one thing that I thought was quite interesting. And then another thing that I think is really important for us to be mindful of. So I think from an expectation perspective, marketers have always tended to be very early adopters to new technology. 00:04:22:22 - 00:04:45:15 Steve I don't think that's any sort of surprise. You think of sort of the history of things like e-commerce or social media or mobile. Typically, marketers were sort of on the forefront of experimenting with those various different new technologies. In fact, about three quarters of the participants cited that they're using AI or generative AI on a weekly basis for business purposes. 00:04:45:17 - 00:05:13:13 Steve But the one sort of caveat I would say about this is, of that three quarters of people, about 80% of them said they're using personal AI account, so they're not using the ones that are really provided to them by the organizations. But when we kind of dug a little bit deeper and we looked at factors like; how knowledgeable they are with generative AI, or do they understand the limitations or even how to apply it in the business, like apply it to specific areas within marketing? 00:05:13:15 - 00:05:33:22 Steve Or I think even the most important thing, which I just touched on a little bit, is the ethical piece of it, the risks associated to it. I would say, surprisingly, it's a really average. The sort of, the community is, is quite sort of kind of below what I would have expected sort of knowledge workers to be. Now again, could be just we're very early days with this as well, and that could be part of it. 00:05:33:22 - 00:05:56:14 Steve And there's still a steep learning curve. I'm not. Which leads me to my second point, which again, something that is not a big surprise and kind of expected. And marketers say over and over again, they are super time-strapped. They've got more channels, more different types of consumer groups to deal with, more types of technology to leverage. They're pushing out more content than ever before. 00:05:56:16 - 00:06:19:23 Steve And by the way, the organization is also asking them to do more with less. So budgets are really strapped as well. So all of those things are putting pressure on them. So they're they're really looking for can AI be an unlock for them to really find those time saving opportunities? Overwhelmingly, even though they're using it a lot, they're really not seeing the benefit of this as of yet. 00:06:19:23 - 00:06:48:10 Steve And and by the way, I wouldn't sort of take that, sort of paint that brush across everybody. I think it just depends on what you're doing. But I would say just as an overall, they're not really finding the benefits. And I think this really comes down to really two fundamental foundational issues that are really going on. So one - almost half, like 44% of the members, really did not know or were not clear what the organization's policy was. 00:06:48:11 - 00:07:11:02 Steve So this is a governance challenge, right. And they're asking the questions around, the policy is vague and doesn't really specify on what restrictions, how do I use it. So it tends to be kind of again, sort of a sort of a one size fits all. And marketers have very unique needs. So there's a real challenge around sort of policy and governance with that as well. 00:07:11:04 - 00:07:31:06 Steve The second thing, which I think is leading to this thing where they're really not seeing the benefits from it, is, again, a little more than half, about 56%, said they either not getting training or was really ineffective. And again, when they say that, it's not that they're not being maybe taught some prompt engineering or some basic elements around, 00:07:31:06 - 00:07:55:00 Steve and by the way, CMA provides all kinds of great training around this, but they're not necessarily seeing the benefits of the training or they're not getting specific training around the areas that matter to them. So they're not really understanding the proficiency around how to use generative AI. They want to see results, right? They feel like this is a great mechanism or vehicle or new technology, but they're not seeing the benefits yet. 00:07:55:02 - 00:08:16:10 Alison That's definitely fascinating, and I am very surprised that more of them are not seeing the benefits yet. And when you talked about the 44% that don't know what their company's guidelines and rules around leveraging it, obviously that's a huge gap that needs to be closed. But is it also contributing to why so many marketers are using their personal accounts instead of business accounts? 00:08:16:12 - 00:08:44:15 Steve Yeah, this this really comes back to the the risk piece that I brought up before. So what's happening is organizations, like most new technologies, there tends to be either someone in the organization, there's either like a CEO, like a centre of excellence that's created around this, or there's a group that's been tasked with th

Is direct mail outdated? In this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes Danielle Doiron, General Manager of Marketing at Canada Post and Marc Cooper, President of Junction 59. Their discussion explores how direct mail has evolved and is thriving in today's digital-dominated marketing landscape. They provide insights on leveraging direct mail and share career advice for aspiring marketing professionals, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and deep business understanding. 00:00:01:18 - 00:00:24:15 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:24:17 - 00:00:48:06 Alison Welcome to today's episode of CMA Connect, where we will be diving into the evolving world of direct mail and modern marketing and brand building. In a world where digital platforms are continually expanding, you may be a bit surprised to learn that direct mail isn't just surviving, it's actually thriving. This episode will explore how direct mail complements digital strategies to deliver impactful results and strengthen brand connections. 00:00:48:08 - 00:01:10:12 Alison Joining me today are two marketing leaders representing both the marketer and the agency perspectives. First, I'm very happy to welcome Danielle Doiron, the General Manager of Marketing at Canada Post. Over the last 22 years, Danielle's excelled at putting customers first, innovating and leading marketing and business initiatives that deliver really strong results. Joining us today is also Marc Cooper, the President of Junction 59. 00:01:10:14 - 00:01:32:22 Alison Marc has extensive experience in creating award-winning campaigns for sectors that are as diverse as financial services, telco and a wide range of small businesses. As a leader at Junction 59, Marc has guided digital transformations and mentored emerging talent focused on delivering the best outcome for clients. So together, we're going to discuss how direct mail can enhance both branding and sales efforts. 00:01:33:00 - 00:01:40:20 Alison We're going to share some successful case studies, and we're also going to do a little bit of myth-busting around traditional marketing channels. So welcome, Danielle and Marc. 00:01:40:22 - 00:01:43:12 Danielle Hi Alison. March Thank you for having us. 00:01:43:14 - 00:01:52:15 Alison So I'd love to kick off our conversation by asking the question, why should brand and performance marketers reconsider direct mail in the digital age? 00:01:52:17 - 00:02:16:10 Danielle Well, DM has been around for a long time. I think we're, we're all aware of that. And as new media opportunities are continually introduced, sometimes we can forget how the power and the impact that that direct mail can, can have. Direct mail just engages differently. And there's, there's a lot of proof that it doesn't just grab attention, it actually sticks with people. 00:02:16:12 - 00:02:48:05 Danielle DM and the physical aspect of direct mail allows a brand to engage with, you know, a consumer or a customer in a pretty intimate way. But its power doesn't stop there, it it actually, its power also lies in its, in its ability to drive action or drive response to a call to action. If you think about a beautifully designed catalogue that's made its way into the home, it's sitting on a coffee table and think about how it, you know, it helps the brand tell a compelling story. 00:02:48:05 - 00:03:09:09 Danielle Perhaps it helps to introduce, you know, a collection or a product. You know, it tempts the consumer to spend a bit of time, maybe flip through. And I also think it does a really strong job of, of inspiring someone to take action or maybe engage in, in the shopping experience. It's got staying power. It drives brand awareness. 00:03:09:09 - 00:03:36:14 Danielle And if done right and embedded with the right response mechanisms, it can even encourage that shopping experience to continue into a digital environment or a store environment. We spend a lot of time studying the impact of direct mail, and we know that neuroscience tells us that the brain processes direct mail 20% faster than, digital advertising, and it also retains it, which means it gives, 00:03:36:14 - 00:04:11:19 Danielle you know, direct mail has a competitive advantage as it relates to driving emotional engagement and recall. And it gives marketers a competitive advantage and an ability to stand out in what can be a really cluttered marketing landscape sometimes. A great example of that would be actually J.Crew. So they had reintroduced their iconic catalog and engaged, you know, their, their customers and consumers in sort of that nostalgic experience and, and flipping through the pages of that J.Crew catalog and having a brand experience with it. 00:04:11:21 - 00:04:35:10 Danielle But what they did, which is really brilliant, is they, they did embed some of those response mechanisms. You know, they drove to, they used QR codes, you know, to drive to a digital environment. They had personalized, interactive, you know, elements to that catalogue. And it succeeded in helping to drive, you know, engagement from the catalogue or the or the the DM experience into the store or the digital experience. 00:04:35:10 - 00:05:02:20 Danielle And I have to tell you from a personal standpoint, as a deep lover of J.Crew, who is still mourning the loss of of our retail stores in Canada, that brand catalogue has become a brand lifeline, actually for me. It is, you know, it's the closest thing to the, you know, the J.Crew experience shopping experience, you know, that I have now and it has maintained my brand affinity and connection to that, to that particular brand. 00:05:02:21 - 00:05:11:12 Danielle So any time I'm traveling anywhere or I'm in close proximity to a J.Crew location, it inspires me to make sure that it is part of my stop. 00:05:11:14 - 00:05:44:00 Marc And you know, what's really interesting is that as much as we love that physical connection and feeling it and having that emotional connection to DM, direct mail also delivers to the bottom line. It delivers as much as a 29% ROI on average, which is comparable, I think, to paid search and actually outperforms online display ads. So when you integrate that direct mail with digital campaigns, you actually can even boost the response rate higher, by as much as 63%. 00:05:44:02 - 00:05:55:03 Marc So pairing direct mail with digital tools creates that seamless journey from the mailbox to online experiences, really amplifying the impact across all the channels that you touch. 00:05:55:05 - 00:06:31:20 Alison I love the stats, and I really love the case study, as well as the memory glue of direct mail over digital is incredibly powerful. All of us are in the roles we're in to drive business results, so a 29% ROI absolutely gets my attention. And I know we'll get our listeners attention as well. And then building on your J.Crew story, when I was the CMO at Holt Renfrew, the catalog that we did each year to our most top customers, we were able to create such a luxurious experience for them that absolutely resonated and drove both online and in-store business and allowed them to dream. 00:06:31:20 - 00:06:54:23 Alison So absolutely can relate personally and in previous roles to the power of direct mail. So I'll take us a little bit in a different direction. Marketers really need to build their brands, and they also need to be driving very strong business outcomes. And let's be honest, that's not easy. So I'd love to hear how direct mail can effectively build a brand while also driving performance marketing outcomes. 00:06:55:01 - 00:07:16:09 Danielle Direct mail is actually unique because it doesn't, it doesn't require you to choose between, you know, leveraging it to build brand or leveraging it to drive performance and business outcome. It actually can do both, and it can do both within the same piece. And the other thing that makes a direct mail particularly interesting is its versatility across industries as well. 00:07:16:09 - 00:07:42:12 Danielle So we already talked about retail, talked about the example of catalogue. You raise such a good point, Alison. And we can't be the only ones that took note of what was happening in retail last year as it relates to catalogue. Catalogue had a resurgence. Think about all the brands that had incorporated, either revisited, incorporated for the first time, or those that where it's just really a tried and true investment in their overall media mix. 00:07:42:14 - 00:08:07:00 Danielle You know, Amazon, Sephora, Mastermind, Costco, Canadian Tire, like the list goes on and on. But it seemed to have grown last year. And that's because it doesn't, it doesn't just allow an individual to have an experience with a brand, it actually kicks off the selling process itself and catalogue's such a great vehicle to inspire. Whether that's how could I tackle a redesign of a room styling, a, you know, an outfit, you know? 00:08:07:02 - 00:08:32:00 Danielle It also delivers tangible product information that helps to remove barriers to purchase; descriptions, sizes, facts . And then when you incorporate things like QR codes, it does you know, it does allow for a movement quickly into the into the shopping experience itself. It's inspiration and it's action really coming together. It doesn't even have to be anything that, quite that sophisticated as a catalogue. 00:08:32:00 - 00:09:00:05 Danielle It can be a postcard, you know, and that's really more performance, a more performance-driven DM piece, you know, where it's reflecting, you know, reflective of brand. Maybe it's highlighting a high-demand product or a new product launch. You know, integrating an offer in there can have a really strong impact on on c

What opportunities can women's professional sports create? In this episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson, the CEO of the CMA, welcomes Allison Sandmeyer-Graves, the CEO of Canadian Women & Sport. They discuss how the momentum of women's professional sports can dismantle barriers women and girls face in society, including issues related to politics, representation on corporate boards, gender-based violence, and pay equality. They highlight the rise of professional women's sports in Canada and their impact on physical and mental health. They also cover the growing investment in women's sports leagues and teams, and the role marketers and brands play in supporting them. Allison also encourages anyone with CEO ambitions to invest in the relationships they build. 00:00:00:05 - 00:00:12:19 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast with your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:12:21 - 00:00:36:10 Alison Women in professional sport are finally getting their moment, which is outstanding news for girls and women at all levels of sport. Now, while this is certainly an important and exciting progress, it's also a starting point. We have a long way to go to get to the finish line and to truly achieve equity. In today's episode, we will explore what led to the long overdue rise of professional women's sport and why it's so important. 00:00:36:12 - 00:00:57:18 Alison We'll discuss why it's about so much more than sport, and talk about the broader societal impact that it represents. We're also speaking to the rebalancing that's underway, the opportunity the opportunity that represents for savvy brands, and how marketers can help accelerate the great momentum we currently have. Joining me today is Allison Sandmeyer-Graves, who is the CEO of Canadian Women in Sport. 00:00:57:20 - 00:01:22:12 Alison Allison's an experienced social impact professional, who's motivated by the potential for systemic change. She also believes that we achieve the greatest outcomes when we can harness the resources of diverse sectors. Allison loves the challenge of building collaborative platforms that will drive innovative solutions, create shared value and help empower communities. That's why she's such a terrific fit for and has thrived in her current role for nine years. 00:01:22:14 - 00:01:48:05 Alison Canadian Women in Sport, the organization that Allison leads, is dedicated to creating an equitable and inclusive Canadian sport and physical activity system that empowers girls and women as active participants and as leaders. And that's within and through sport, with a focus on systemic change, Canadian Women in Sport partners with organizations, governments and leaders to challenge the status quo and build better sport through gender equity. 00:01:48:07 - 00:01:54:08 Alison It's a mission very close to my heart, and it's a true pleasure to welcome my namesake, Allison, to the podcast today. 00:01:54:10 - 00:01:58:09 Allison Hello. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation. 00:01:58:09 - 00:02:03:21 Alison I would love to start by having you share a bit about your organization and the very important impact that you're having. 00:02:03:23 - 00:02:24:11 Allison I love talking about Canadian women in sport. I think for many people who are tuning in, who have experienced the power of sport in their lives, I mean, that is what our organization is truly about. Taking a sport system that for decades has done things in a certain way and frankly, served some people better than others. 00:02:24:13 - 00:02:52:11 Allison And making it more inclusive and more equitable so that as many girls and women as possible, can access the tremendous benefits of sport. And we do this work because we believe that sport is a platform for broad social change. When you think about the individual benefits that sport brings to people's lives and how that makes them stronger in their abilities and in the opportunities afforded to them. 00:02:52:13 - 00:03:34:05 Allison When you think about sport as a platform for leadership and the need for more women in all forms of leadership in our society, that is what really motivates us. That's what gets us excited. The idea of using sport as a vehicle for for bigger change for women and girls, and we do that by working within the system itself. Making the sport system more inclusive, more equitable, not fixing the girls, not fixing the women, but really looking at how can we take the way that sport is delivered, the way it's governed, the policies, the practices, the culture, and create more fairness so that girls and women are welcomed in, are supported and engaged to be part 00:03:34:05 - 00:03:42:06 Allison of this and are able to thrive, as we say, in sport, but also well beyond through sport. 00:03:42:07 - 00:04:10:02 Alison It's such an important mandate and I know from our earlier conversations, we both have personally benefited from being involved in sport early in our lives and it led to so many great professional and personal experiences that really made us the leaders we are today. So I am so passionate about the mission of your organization and the important role that you're playing for future generations, as well as helping to nurture truly professional athletes. 00:04:10:02 - 00:04:13:10 Allison Not a role that I ever aspired to, but without sport 00:04:13:10 - 00:04:22:12 Alison I truly wouldn't be the person or the leader that I am today. So I want more of Canadians and Canadian women and girls in particular, to be able to benefit from that. 00:04:22:14 - 00:04:53:03 Allison Absolutely. You know, I have the great privilege of encountering so many Olympians and Paralympians. And so I always feel, like I need to say, I'm a very average athlete. But, but I think what's great about sport is that you can you can take it as far as your interests and your abilities can take you. And in Canada, that increasingly means to a livelihood, to a professional livelihood, as an athlete. 00:04:53:05 - 00:05:13:07 Allison But you you don't need to aspire to that. And you don't need to achieve at those levels to get all of these benefits, to get the physical health benefits, the mental health benefits, the resiliency, the, the ability to set goals and strive towards them, to work as a team. There's, you know, so much that can come from sport. 00:05:13:09 - 00:05:36:20 Allison There's so much at stake, I would say, for women and girls, in our society to access these sorts of things and, I, I want the whole, the whole pyramid, if you will, all the way from professional right down to the grassroots. But it's really about getting as many Canadian women and girls playing and experiencing this as possible. 00:05:36:20 - 00:05:40:06 Allison And the whole ecosystem has to work together to create that. 00:05:40:08 - 00:05:49:05 Alison Absolutely. Now, building on that, what led you to join the organization nine years ago, I think it was 35 years old at the time, and how has it evolved under your leadership? 00:05:49:07 - 00:06:18:10 Allison I was, so intrigued by by the mission, by the mandate. You know, we've already spoken about, you know, my personal experiences of the power of sport. I'm a social impact person. So my career has been in the nonprofit space. I really like being part of contributing to big movements that help to, this is going to sound so corny, but, like, make a better world, right? 00:06:18:10 - 00:06:52:15 Allison I want to contribute to communities and societies and the sort of change that, I want to see and the sort of the society that I want to live in. So that's what really motivates me. I think at the time it was known as CAWS, some people who are tuning in may know it as that, now Canadian Women in Sport, you know, had been around for three and a half decades and it had such, such a wonderful reputation for really credible work, for strong advocacy, 00:06:52:17 - 00:07:24:23 Allison great, just was, was a wonderful resource within the sport system for those who wanted to be part of making a better sports system and unlocking the potential therein. At the same time, big mandate, you know, all sport, physical activity, all of Canada, all levels, very little capacity. And so, it was a wonderful challenge to step into as a leader to say, okay, there's something really great here. 00:07:24:23 - 00:07:50:19 Allison There's this wonderful set of assets. But how can we, how can we expand the impact? How can we take it further? Obviously a lot of pressure. A lot of people had done a lot of work to get it to that point, and I felt a big responsibility in stepping into that role, to to really take their vision for this organization and the sport system and the impact that they wanted to have and steward it forward. 00:07:50:21 - 00:08:20:07 Allison And the beautiful thing is, is that, as I think I would say, luck would have it, you know, there was government interest and investment in the women's movement and in women's sport that was just around the corner. And some really wonderful things happening around. And so we've been part of building this big movement for women's sport in the country, but also joined by so many others who've been so essential to this organization's growth and development and the movement as a whole. 00:08:20:09 - 00:08:39:21 Alison That's amazing. And if making the world a better place is corny, then let's embrace corny. We should all have that as one of our core purposes in life. Now, you've clearly accomplished a lot. And this might be a tough question because of everything that you've done, but what accomplishments are you most proud of? 00:08:39:23 - 00:09:16:04 Allison I was giving this some thought and I think the thing that really stands out most for me is I'm really proud of what this organization stands for and what it means to people. Because I get to be out at events and and different things in the industry, I often have the opportunity to hear directly from, people

Are you curious about how agency branding is evolving? On this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes the founder and CEO of FUSE Create, Stephen Brown. Stephen describes the rebranding process that transformed into Fuse Create, where creativity comes first. He strongly suggests that agencies prioritize building the brand they want to become and encourages professionals to build their brands alongside their agencies. Stephen also reveals how industry awards are crucial in agency branding, driving team motivation and attracting new clients. Stephen also highlights the importance of company culture in an agency's success.  00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:17 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:22:19 - 00:00:48:07 Alison In today's episode, we will explore the importance of agencies making their brands a priority and also discuss how agency branding is evolving. Similar to that old proverb that the cobbler's children have no shoes, agencies are often so focused on building their clients' brands that they don't take the time or invest the resources required to build their own. And just as it is for clients, this lack of focus on investment can be highly detrimental. 00:00:48:08 - 00:01:15:19 Alison It's also an amazing opportunity for the agencies that do consistently make their agency brand a focus. Joining me today isStephen Brown, an agency CEO who attributes their focus and investment on their agency brand as one of the key reasons why they have been thriving for 22 years. That's an absolutely remarkable accomplishment in a highly competitive environment. After a successful career with large multinational agencies, Stephen Brown founded FUSE Create in 2003. 00:01:15:21 - 00:01:44:05 Alison Tenacity, vision, commitment and passion for the business have been the driving force behind Stephen's marketing and advertising career. They're also clearly key to why he's thriving as an entrepreneur. With his extensive experience in brand, direct, interactive, database, promotional and exponential marketing, Stephen has the learning needed to create, strengthen and grow brands across a wide range of categories. Throughout our discussion, Stephen will share his experience on the role 00:01:44:11 - 00:02:05:09 Alison agency, brand and culture have played in building his business, including what's worked well and some lessons that were learned the hard way. We're also going to talk about how agency branding is evolving and how it can be different for independents, multinationals and large agencies. The agency world, like every aspect of the marketing profession, is evolving quickly, and we're clearly at a pivotal time 00:02:05:13 - 00:02:10:01 Alison with the latest merger announcement. So this is a very timely topic. Welcome, Stephen. 00:02:10:03 - 00:02:14:10 Stephen Thank you very much. I appreciate, appreciate the opportunity to join you today. 00:02:14:12 - 00:02:22:15 Alison Stephen, I'd like to start by hearing what led to you making your agency brand a priority when so many of your peers fall victim to the cobbler's children problem? 00:02:22:20 - 00:02:43:22 Stephen Truthfully, it's been an amazing 22-year ride. This building, an agency from the ground up with my partners and my team. We did not always have the right view towards branding, especially, you know, if you think about any person who starts a business, your fixation to be at the beginning, this is natural, keep the client happy. Keep the client really is the goal. 00:02:44:04 - 00:03:02:16 Stephen And so if I look in the early years of the business, we didn't have a strong enough grasp on what we really need to do from a branding perspective. So I attribute it to a couple things. One is perspective. When you start a business, you learn as you go. No one teaches you how to do these things. So I did see, I had a chance to see some things that worked and some things that didn't work. 00:03:02:18 - 00:03:21:05 Stephen But I'd also say the agency world has dramatically changed, and much of it for the better. It's a great industry, but I don't know if we, I don't know, I don't remember as a youth in this business, the agency's brand, the name was important, but the actual amount of marketing we did, I don't remember it ever being to the level that 00:03:21:07 - 00:03:47:07 Stephen I feel we need to do now. So it is partly, you know, partly tenure and partly just the changing landscape which has made FUSE Create, really reinvent itself, but also reinvent how we brand ourselves. In the, I can give you a bit of the journey that we've been on. I think the big mental shift is, is to separate your business and look at it like a client and give it the time and the resources that you do 00:03:47:08 - 00:04:08:07 Stephen a client. Your cobbler shoe thing is absolutely true. When you're spending so much of your day looking at your client's business and building their websites and building their brands, building their campaigns, you're forgetting your own. So the only way to change that is we had to, like, remove ourselves almost from our own brand and look at our brand and do a deep dive on what's working, what's not. 00:04:08:09 - 00:04:26:19 Stephen And so in 22 years, you know, this really started about seven years ago. And that was just like a client. We started with, you know, the strategic, the strategic planning phase, which was the deep dive on our business, and the deep dive on our business seven years ago is, we were in trouble. We had some problems with the business. 00:04:26:21 - 00:04:54:16 Stephen We were a good, safe agency, and good and safe is not the space you want, in the competitive Canadian market in advertising and hyper competitiveness of Toronto. So we had to do that very cold, hard look at ourselves and say, okay, we've got some definite strengths, some good things, but we need to change dramatically. And so first step was build the brand house. 00:04:54:16 - 00:05:12:03 Stephen So just like we would do for clients. And not build the brand out of who we were then, but build the brand house of who we want to become. And that in doing that and building that brand house of what you, what we wanted to become really then illustrated where the gaps were. And the gaps for us was our brand. 00:05:12:04 - 00:05:40:19 Stephen What did we stand for? And what we did not stand for is a strong enough creative contender in this business. So that started a whole journey. I won't go through the whole journey. We talk about how that affects the brand, but the biggest, the biggest thing was, is a reshuffle of the whole business to being creative first, and being much more creative and how that positioning comes to life, both from internally but then externally to the world. 00:05:40:21 - 00:06:04:17 Stephen So it started with some structural changes as far as we brought in Steve Miller or ECD, and he was amazing at coming in and, you know, really drawing the line in the sand. So here's a, here's a strategy. But now we take the strategy and make it happen. You know, first week in front of the whole company, the line was drawn clearly on a presentation, which is, we are a creative first agency starting today. 00:06:04:19 - 00:06:29:15 Stephen And that, won't go into the shock and awe, the shock and awe, needed it, we needed it. But a third of the company just were like, "Yes. Finally." A third of the company was "I've heard big declarations before. I'm gonna hold back on my belief on this," and a third of the group was, "No, we're not, we're, this agency or that agency." But part of branding is have your conviction and stick with your story and stick with your plan. 00:06:29:15 - 00:06:49:05 Stephen And so we stuck with the plan. And from there, Steve and the team that we built really started to rebuild the agency to the brand we wanted to be. Now, how that comes across is how we got to there and how we've gotten to where we are today. And it's been a lot of advancement is really there are some structural things behind that. 00:06:49:05 - 00:07:18:20 Stephen So first and foremost, the name, we used to be called Fuse Marketing Group. There is no creative in the word Fuze, in the words Fuze Marketing Group, and also redirected to what we were in our origin. But that's not the company we're trying to be today. So Steve and Team really just rehauled the brand. Even like, Fuse was great, but FUSE Create, put it, declare it right in the name, and then from logo design to all, it really comes down to positioning about how we are setting ourselves up. 00:07:19:00 - 00:07:40:11 Stephen And this all came across in our brand book. Our mantra internally is turn heads. It's, it's been working incredibly, really to just make sure, are we when we're looking at our client work, when we're when we're looking at our own work, are we able to make the consumer or the target of any sort turn their head and notice what we are communicating. And, you know, just pride behind that, 00:07:40:11 - 00:07:58:19 Stephen a lot of energy behind that, the right type of, conviction we needed to, to do a significant change to the business. But then out of that. So, so now we have the brand, the name change. We now have this real sort of call to action - turn heads. But now we have to get this to the market. 00:07:59:00 - 00:08:29:09 Stephen And if I look at what we did there, I mean it's structural, and it was structural how you structure the business, but also how we then would build it out. And so the structural one was, for years I would do the marketing and PR and my business partner, Garo would do the marketing, the PR. But Steve took it, owned it, but also we put a full time body, an amazing woman named Vanessa beh