CMA Connect

What happens when the traditional marketing funnel collapses? In the next episode of CMA Connect, host Alison Simpson sits down with Wanda Fong, country manager for Meta's Global Business Group in Canada, to explore how artificial intelligence (AI) is fundamentally rewiring consumer discovery. Leveraging a rare background in computer engineering and interpersonal communications, Wanda explains why marketers must stop treating AI as a simple "productivity hack" and utilize it to reach entirely new audiences.   00:00:00.920 — 00:00:19.680 · Speaker 1 Welcome to CMA Connect Canada s marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, newly retired CMA CEO Allison Simpson. 00:00:24.760 — 00:01:48.670 · Speaker 2 Today's conversation focuses on a question worth sitting with. What happens when the framework that we've built marketing around starts to stop working? So for decades, we've really operated inside the funnel. Awareness leads to consideration. Consideration leads to purchase. Linear. Sequential. Measurable. We built careers around that logic. But right now that funnel in many ways is collapsing, and it's happening faster than most marketers realise. Today's consumers aren't always searching for products with intent anymore. They're discovering them through AI powered feeds that surface things they didn't even know they wanted. Discovery and purchase aren't just happening in the same moment. And if you're only planning campaigns around the old funnel, you're already behind. So to help us make sense of this shift, I'm very happy to welcome Wanda Fong, country manager for Metas Global Business Group in Canada. Juan, this career is a fascinating blend. She started with a computer engineering degree from the University of Waterloo. Spent years at Microsoft and now leads Meta's business across Canada. That technical foundation gives her a really rare lens on what's actually happening under the hood of AI driven marketing. So today we're going to be unpacking how AI is rewiring consumer discovery, what it means for Canadian brands competing on a national and global stage, and how marketers can stop treating AI like a productivity hack and start seeing it as the fundamental shift that it actually is. Wanda, welcome to CMA connect. I am really looking forward to our conversation today. Thanks so. 00:01:48.670 — 00:01:50.510 · Speaker 3 Much. I'm so excited to be here. 00:01:50.710 — 00:02:07.130 · Speaker 2 I want to you started as a computer engineer at Waterloo. So writing code, solving very technical problems. Now you're leading a business that's fundamentally about human behaviour and persuasion. What was the moment you realised that your engineering background was actually an advantage in understanding marketing, not a detour from it? 00:02:07.170 — 00:03:16.360 · Speaker 3 I wish I would have said that I had planned this all, but when I started and went into computer engineering, not to date myself, Facebook back then didn't even exist. So I can't say that it was a grand master plan, but when I think back to my time computer engineering, the focus really was on systems design, understanding what issues are, how to break them down, and how to find repeatable, scalable solutions. But also, when I was starting to look at electives, I took an interpersonal communications class, and I just absolutely fell in love with it, to the point that I actually ended up with a double degree in both interpersonal communications and computer engineering. So I guess I've always really loved the intersection of art and science, and I've just been so grateful because meta is the perfect playground for me to really be able to unpack one of our most complex problems, which is human behaviour and motivation, but be able to do it in a very measured and systematic way. So honestly, this is my dream job and I've just been so honoured to be able to be part of this profession. 00:03:16.400 — 00:03:34.440 · Speaker 2 I didn't realise you had a double major and that's such a perfect and rare combination. It makes you incredibly well-suited for the career that you have built. So I love that you're following where you see opportunity and potential and areas that interest you. And not being as regimented about law. Got this certain degree I should be going this certain path. 00:03:34.480 — 00:03:35.360 · Speaker 3 Exactly. 00:03:35.400 — 00:03:46.320 · Speaker 2 You're also one of the few women leading a major tech platform in Canada. So what's one specific barrier that you hit on your way up that you didn't see coming? And what did you do about it that actually worked? 00:03:46.360 — 00:06:02.950 · Speaker 3 I feel like it's not about a female barrier or any other barrier, but what's most difficult to address is some of the unconscious biases that we may be holding, because those are invisible and in a way harder to unpack and to solve for. And when I say that, what I mean by that is how are people perceiving you as a person that you are? So myself, being a female, being Asian, often having been the youngest person in the room, I would also admit probably a little quieter. Does that come across as a tech leader, as people think about it? Or does that come across as a sales person or a person in advertising? And I think those are all fair questions, and they don't come from a bad place. But people make assumptions every day. We all do. That's how our brains work. And it's important to recognise those and to be able to address them when they need to be corrected or course corrected. But also assuming good intent is really critical in these moments, because I think that often we can put up barriers that potentially don't exist. I think what's worked for me throughout my career in multiple different roles, and what I really enjoy is this focusing on impact and making people successful. That could be my clients. It could be partners. It could also be my leader internally. One of the things that I feel really passionate about is both mentorship and sponsorship. I think those are two critical things as we think about women and being able to lift others in our community. Mentorship is very clear, but sponsorship is really equally, if not more powerful. And to me, sponsorship means speaking about someone, advocating for them and championing them when they're not in the room. I know that throughout my career, I've benefited from sponsors both challenging me to take on new challenges, but also really championing for me and giving me opportunities and rooms that I couldn't represent myself in. So I think identifying those mentors and sponsors and arming them to understand what you're trying to achieve is critically important. 00:06:03.110 — 00:06:18.830 · Speaker 2 That is such an important distinction. So when you have encountered a bias from someone sitting across the table where they might have assumed for whatever reason, that you might not be interested in a role or you weren't the best fit for a role, what have you done to help counter that? 00:06:18.870 — 00:07:11.740 · Speaker 3 I think the most important thing that I go back to is good intent, because it's so easy for us to go down a victimisation rathole, which I fundamentally think is counterproductive. I assume that the person is making these assumptions because haven't been clear enough about the objective I'm trying to reach. And so I believe that if you approach it with good intent and curiosity and ask questions to understand why they feel that way, that is the best way to respond respectfully and also equally with kindness and grace, so that you're not making it feel like it's an adversarial conversation, but really a collaborative conversation to help that audience member understand how that could be beneficial for them and the business goals that they're trying to drive. 00:07:12.180 — 00:07:58.680 · Speaker 2 That's such great advice. It's so easy to get caught up in that I'm not being treated fairly and be more reactive, but actually having a graceful conversation, making it safe for the other person to admit where they might have made a mistake instead of leading to a tough, controversial conversation is absolutely outstanding advice for all of our listeners. Now you're also at the forefront of the AI transformation, so I want to dig into that now, starting with the traditional funnel. So we are starting to see it collapse. And that means marketers can't plan campaigns the way they used to. So typically awareness in week one, month one conversion month to month three. But what's the biggest mistake you're seeing Canadian marketers make as they're trying to adopt now? What should they be doing instead? 00:07:58.720 — 00:09:59.410 · Speaker 3 I mean, when we look at the behaviour, whether you look on Instagram or Facebook or any of the services on meta, it's very clear. First of all, the 3.5 billion consumers on meta all have a different customer journey. And so there is no one size fits all. Some may still follow the sequential journey of awareness, consideration and conversion, and others may transact in one fell swoop with a minute. And so I think the challenge is really being able to adapt to all of the different types of user preferences. And as we both know, there is an expectation for all brands to be able to do that and adapt to their particular preference and style at the end of the day. For me, the biggest challenge for marketers is that I just think our organisational design at this point does not meet the modern day funnel as you talked about it. So if we think of a typical marketing organisation, we're organised by brand potentially consideration and performance, then you overlay that with the different channels, be it social or others, and that just doesn't fit with customer behaviour

Great marketing careers aren't built in a single lane. In this episode of CMA Connect, host Alison Simpson welcomes Air Canada's managing director of promotional marketing, Raymond Ludwin, to explore his journey from agency strategist to client-side leader. Discover the strategy behind Aeroplan's 2025 campaign, a triple-Gold CMA Award winner, and why stepping out of the boardroom is critical to understanding the Canadian consumer. Finally, Ludwin reflects on the leadership mistakes that shaped his career. 00:00:00.920 — 00:00:19.680 · Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, newly retired CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:24.120 — 00:02:48.530 · Alison The best marketing careers aren't built in a single lane. They're built by applying strategic thinking across different contexts, learning what works in each industry and developing a breadth of expertise that can make you valuable anywhere. Today's guest is a terrific example. Raymond Ludwin has built his career by moving between agency and client side roles and working across very diverse sectors, including telecommunications, coalition loyalty and travel. Throughout this journey, he's developed deep expertise spanning brand strategy and marketing, consumer research and loyalty marketing. And he's always been focussed on delivering marketing that drives real business results. I've had the distinct pleasure of working with Raymond twice, first at a branding agency where we tackled complex strategic challenges together, and later, as senior marketers at Rogers Communications. I have always valued his strategic thinking, his very collaborative approach, and his genuine curiosity about understanding what actually drives consumer behaviour in business outcomes. Raymond's career trajectory offers important lessons for marketers today. After brand strategy roles at several agencies, he worked in brand and corporate affair roles at Rogers. Raymond then made the move to Loyalty One, where he led brand strategy and customer experience for Air Miles, at the time Canada's largest coalition loyalty program. In 2018, Raymond joined Air Canada, where he now serves as Managing Director of Promotional Marketing, leading the team responsible for turning marketing strategy into bookings and revenue. Raymond also led the development of Aeroplan's "Stop Sitting on Your Points" campaign, which took a hat trick of golds in the CMA's 2025 awards in the Business Impact category. They won for Brand Engagement, Shopper Marketing and Brand Impact. Beyond his corporate leadership, Raymond gives back to our profession. He serves on the CMA's Marketing Talent Committee and is a judge for industry awards. Today, Raymond will share how to pivot quickly and drive results, as well as how Canadian consumers are evolving, including demographic and regional differences that he's seeing in his business. Raymond is also happy to talk openly about his mistakes, as well as successes. In an era where AI is evolving faster than anyone can master it, where political and economic volatility creates constant uncertainty, and where the pace of change demands agility over perfection, that kind of honest reflection is exactly what our listeners need to hear. Raymond also has a very fun story involving butter tarts, so they may have to tempt out of him. Welcome, Raymond. I am thrilled to welcome you to CMA Vonnect podcast, and I'm really looking forward to a great conversation. 00:02:48.570 — 00:02:57.810 · Raymond Thank you so much for having me, Alison. I feel this is kind of like the Barbara Walters or Anderson Cooper's opportunities for marketers. So it's really an honour to be interviewed by you. 00:02:57.850 — 00:03:10.060 · Alison So, Raymond, let's start with your career journey from agency to client side and across very distinct industries. What lessons have you learned from that transition, and what guidance would you offer marketers that are thinking about the next step on their career path? 00:03:10.100 — 00:04:21.660 · Raymond Well, I'll say off the bat that my career journey has definitely not been linear. I think calling it peripatetic or serendipitous would be maybe the most accurate thing. But on reflection, one learns about one's career journey, perhaps more so than one plans for it at the outset. And I think for me, what the most important learning was truly understanding what motivates me and keeping that core to how I think about how my career evolves. I realized early on that I'm highly motivated by complex industries that have challenging marketing problems and interesting customer dynamics. So mostly I've looked at my next opportunities as being places where I ask myself, could I just imagine being stimulated and not bored five years from now? I think secondly, you know, I got really good career advice myself early on, which is whenever you're looking at a particular role, ask yourself what next doors would this role open up that I could leverage into the future? And then finally, you know, and I'm sure this would resonate with everybody, you know, we spend as much time in our work environments, sometimes more than we do at home. So making sure that time is spent with people you respect and have fun with, grow to turn into friends is incredibly important and makes a career satisfying. 00:04:21.900 — 00:04:46.900 · Alison That is such great advice, and we're certainly an example of where meeting professionally, working together and turning into a friendship. So one of the wonderful outcomes of the profession. So you've developed expertise across brand strategy, marketing research, loyalty marketing. And that's just a few of the broad toolkit that you bring to any business that you join. So how has having the breadth of skills shaped your effectiveness as a marketer and your ability to really deliver business results? 00:04:46.940 — 00:06:42.640 · Raymond Well, I think, sometimes I think it's I think expertise is being generous, that's for sure. And certainly as I've gotten more senior, I, I sometimes feel like I'm now becoming more and more surface level at all these skills as I carry on in my career. But that being said, you know, that breadth of experience that I've enjoyed and continue to gather by working with people who now have their own expertise in those various marketing skills, what I learned from them, what that does, it really allows me to fit all the pieces of marketing strategy together and determine, you know, from which areas we will drive the right impact. And I think that is the thing that having that diverse background really facilitates. You know, I love to cook. And so the analogy I would make, it would be it's sort of a little bit like when you need to start working without a recipe, you have some sense of maybe the ingredients you can use. You don't know the proportion, you don't know how they'll all fit together, but you know, you use your previous cooking and eating experience to imagine something new that can be creative. And that only comes with practice and time and having that breadth of expertise. So I really benefited from having that, you know, that diversity. All of this for me, really came to a head when we relaunched Aeroplan in 2020 because in many respects this was highly uncharted territory. We were doing this right at the outset of Covid. So that was a seismic moment in travel, not just travel loyalty. We were repatriating a very well-known but somewhat tarnished brand, and there was a huge customer experience and value proposition lift that we were creating with the Aeroplan relaunch. So our ability to go off a standard playbook was very, very small. So being able for me to lean on some of those activities in my background across different industries and marketing activities, gave me the confidence that the marketing relaunch that we were planning might just work. And so you don't really realize how much you've had those experiences until you're challenged with a project or an opportunity where you know there is no playbook and you have to just rely on what's now bred in the bone or what has become instinct. 00:06:42.880 — 00:07:03.160 · Alison Well, I love the energy of constantly learning and comfort with ambiguity, because with the pandemic being a prime example, especially in your industry, none of us knew what was coming, how long it was going to last. So being comfortable, not knowing and being comfortable, seizing the moment, figuring out, okay, how are we going to solve this together is mission critical for any leader, and certainly in the marketing profession. 00:07:03.360 — 00:08:07.610 · Raymond You use the term ambiguity. And for me, that's so resonant because I often talk to my team about this, that ambiguity is uncomfortable, but it is also where the most interesting opportunities lie. Many of us work in matrix organizations, where roles and responsibilities aren't always obvious, and those come to the forefront when something new and interesting happens or presents itself that touches everybody. And one can either turn around and say, well, I don't know whose job that is and this is going to paralyze us. Or one you can turn around and say, well, because it touches everybody. It's an opportunity for collaboration in ways that we hadn't thought about before. And if we focus less on whose job it is or what the right process is, and more focus on, what are the outcomes that we need to drive together, magic happens. And it brings the best of a matrix organization to life. And that is what I call these ideas of productive areas of grey. There are unproductive areas of grey where things are just badly-designed, but there are productive areas of grey where a project or a cool marketing opportunity comes to lif

How does a global beauty brand earn genuine Canadian relevance when "Buy Canadian" isn't an option? Sephora Canada Senior Vice-President and Chief Marketing Officer Allison Litzinger joins Alison Simpson, newly retired CMA CEO, to reveal the strategy. Discover what drove Sephora's 18-place jump in the Ipsos Canada's Most Influential Brands study, the thinking behind the WNBA Toronto Tempo founding partnership and why the boldest move in your career is usually the right one. 00:00:00.920 — 00:00:19.680 · Speaker 1 Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, newly retired CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:23.840 — 00:02:39.090 · Alison In a market demanding Canadian authenticity, how does a European-owned retailer become one of Canada's most influential brands? The answer lies in creative problem solving and strategic marketing leadership. For today's episode, I'm very happy to welcome Alison Litzinger, SVP, Chief Marketing Officer at Sephora Canada. Alison and I share more than a first name. We also took a very similar approach to our careers, starting with agencies where we rose through the ranks before taking on leadership roles client side, where we led creative and business transformations. Alison spent over 18 years building brands and businesses on the agency side, including 14 years at Leo Burnett, where she rose to Group Account Director. Her agency work has been internationally recognized, including at Cannes Lions, The One Show, Clios, CMAS and the Marketing Awards. This extensive creative pedigree really established her as a senior strategist and creative marketer before transitioning to retail marketing. Allison's impact at Hudson's Bay Company, where she served as Vice President of Marketing for nearly four years, earned her recognition in the rebranding, marketing, and digital transformation of the Bay. Since joining Sephora Canada in 2022, Allison has driven absolutely remarkable results. Sephora Canada was named "Strategy Brand of the Year" in 2024, and was recognized as one of the "Movers and Shakers" in this year's Most Influential Brands in Canada study, gaining a surprising 18 places and overall ranking, which is significant growth. Under Alison's leadership, she launched Beauty at the Bentway, building community space to connect Clean at Sephora beauty products and lifestyle. She also led the "Sephora Illumination Powered by Colour IQ" experiential campaign, which has been recognized for creative innovation and effectiveness at the Epicas, Effies, Drum and Media Innovation Awards. Allison has also pioneered community first marketing initiatives, including launching the Sephora Squad Canada, a paid Creator program, and orchestrating Sephora Canada's founding partnership with WNBA's Toronto Tempo last year, demonstrating her strategic vision in women's sports marketing. Beyond her corporate achievements, Allison contributes to the CMA and the broader marketing community. She served as Co-Chair for the CMAS Brand Council and as Co-Chair for the 2022 CMA Awards. Welcome, Allison, it is my absolute pleasure to have you here today and I'm looking forward to a great conversation. 00:02:39.090 — 00:02:41.130 · Allison Thank you so much for having me, Alison. 00:02:41.250 — 00:02:55.490 · Alison Now you've spent over 18 years with agencies and earned international recognition from amazing awards including Cannes Lions. So what drew you to make the shift from agency to client leadership at Hudson's Bay? And what surprised you most about the transition? 00:02:55.530 — 00:04:10.540 · Allison I'm asked this a lot, Alison, actually, and I think there are a couple of things that shaped my decision. But but probably the, the primary one was the evolving agency and client relationship. You know, we were at a time about eight years ago where budgets were being squeezed on the client side and the agency client relationship was becoming much more transactional. And I really wanted to have a role where I had more impact over the brand versus only the communications. And then also there's, you know, the growth opportunity. I've been on the agency side for, you know, a number of years on a variety of businesses, and that gave me great challenges. But probably for my last, you know, 4 or 5 years, I felt like I needed more of a growth opportunity and to stretch myself. What drew me to the Bay was obviously it was an iconic brand, and they were looking to really transform the brand. It was a role to be the VP of Brand Direction and that was quite exciting as an opportunity. What surprised me about this side of the business is probably how many parts of the business that I'd never truly been exposed to on the agency side, working with senior clients and also the complexity of operations behind the business and how much marketing actually happens beyond the work that clients and agencies are doing together. 00:04:10.580 — 00:04:59.430 · Alison I had similar motivation for moving to the client side and absolutely similar learning as far as the breadth of what you're exposed to, the business knowledge that you gain, the operational side of it, and just the wonderful opportunity to expand your marketing toolkit, but also your business toolkit and open up new opportunities for yourself. So I can absolutely see the appeal on what's kept you on the client side. So let's talk about a fascinating brand and business challenge. During renewed Canadian patriotism, many retailers are leaning heavily into by Canadian messaging. But Sephora is European, owned by LVMH, and Canadians often mistake your brand as American, yet you've obviously been great at countering that, because Sephora has been recognized as one of the "Movers and Shakers", gaining 18 places in this year's Most Influential Brands study. So walk us through what drove that significant increase? 00:04:59.470 — 00:07:17.080 · Allison Yeah, I mean, Allison, what a year we had last year. And it really, truly was a challenge for every marketer with such a huge shift in consumer behaviour and mindset. And, you know, we really had to evaluate what was right for our brand in this kind of new environment where consumers were really thinking Canadian first. But given that we are a global brand and we do curate the best in beauty from around the world Buy Canadian was certainly not, you know, our angle or our way in. And so, you know, we had to look at what, what was our way in. And we really looked at what that deeper motivation was behind the Buy Canadian sentiment. And, you know, if you truly looked at what was driving that behaviour, it was Canadians were, you know, fearful. They were fearful for their economy, for their lifestyle, for their nationality and their identity and sovereignty of Canada was really threatened at that time. For Sephora, the task and the marketing pivot became about supporting Canadians, really elevating Canadians and what was important to them and making sure that we were meeting them where they were by continuing to be truly culturally relevant in the moments that mattered to them, by building Canadian community, and also by bringing a sense of joy to their world in a time of uncertainty and as a beauty brand, we have this very joyful and exciting category that we can continue to convey and to communicate, to provide that joy. So there were a few big things that we leaned into, and I do believe those had a big influence on how we were perceived as a brand in Canada and led to some of these increases. And the first was truly leaning into Canadians, as I mentioned. And that meant leaning into Canadian creators, Canadian partnerships, and the right partnerships that really mattered to Canadians at that time, and leaning into truly Canadian insights to connect with communities across the country. The second was refocusing on the value we drive as a retailer beyond just the sale. Knowing that economic uncertainty was so prevalent in Canadians' mindset, so we really focused on that from a marketing perspective and thinking about the value that we drove. And last, as I mentioned, bringing kind of the joy of beauty to life through our tone, so we were a brand that people gravitated to and wanted to involve themselves with. 00:07:17.240 — 00:08:01.650 · Alison Those are great insights, and especially the bringing moments of joy and realizing the role that your brand has and bringing that, especially in uncertain times. It's powerful even when times are great, but in uncertain times when we're questioning a lot, to be able to go into a brand retail experience or online and have that sense of joy is a wonderful compliment to your brand as well. Now, you've also been a bit of a pioneer when it comes to sponsorships, with Sephora Canada becoming the first founding partner of the WNBA's Toronto Tempo. So you're clearly early to women's sport partnerships more broadly. As women's professional sports, we're starting to get some long overdue recognition. So how do you identify which cultural moments to invest in, and what was the strategic thinking behind the WNBA partnership specifically? 00:08:01.690 — 00:11:06.980 · Allison Sure. Well, I think as a marketer, it's always a challenge. There are so many moments out there. How do you really think about what makes sense for your brand? But I guess when when we talk about which cultural moments we invest in for Sephora, it's really about us harnessing what Canadians are excited about and where there's a relevant and authentic connection to the category, and making sure our brand is really at the centre of the conversation and where the buzz is going to be. And of course, we have to tie that to where the relevant opportunities are from an audience perspective and the growth of our brand. And so this

The campaign that delivered a 20 per cent sales boost didn't start with a creative brief, it started with a casual comment. In Episode 74 of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson joins Pizza Pizza CMO Adrian Fuoco and Zulu Alpha Kilo President and CEO Mike Sutton to unpack the half-decade partnership behind "Bipartisan Wings." The collaboration drove a 40 per cent jump in wing sales, a 2025 CMA Best of the Best award and a CEO crediting marketing for brand growth on BNN Bloomberg. 00:00:00.920 — 00:00:19.680 · Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, newly retired CMA CEO, Alison Simpson. 00:00:23.840 — 00:02:32.250 · Alison Great marketing doesn't happen in boardrooms filled with endless PowerPoints and bloated processes. It happens when brilliant clients and creative partners trust each other enough to move fast, take risks and chase cultural moments that others often miss. My guests today are a perfect example. Adrian Fuoco, Chief Marketing Officer at Pizza Pizza Limited, and Mike Sutton, President and CEO of Zulu Alpha Kilo, helped build one of Canada's most successful client agency partnerships over the last five years. They've created campaigns like "Bipartisan Wings" and "Reverse Tariffs" that don't just win awards, they drive significant business results. Since joining as VP of Marketing in January 2020 and being promoted to CMO in June 2024, Pizza Pizza has really transformed under Adrian's leadership, from a traditional, value-focused QSR into one of Canada's most culturally relevant brands. The results really speak for themselves. Pizza Pizza was named Strategies magazine's Brand of the Year in 2023, won two gold CMA Awards in 2023 and 2025, and their "Bipartisan Wings" campaign closed the show, winning top honours as best of the best for 2025. Most impressively, Pizza Pizza's CEO cited on BNN Bloomberg that marketing initiatives drove growth. Words that every marketer and CMO aspires to hear. Mike Sutton has led Zulu Alpha Kilo as CEO since April 2021, steering the agency to become one of the world's most awarded independent shops. Under his leadership, the agency has expanded to Vancouver and New York, was named AD Age's A-list agency standout in March and achieved platinum status in Canada's Best Managed Companies in 2024. Together, they've proven that when you combine strategic agility, mutual trust and a willingness to say, hey, I'm not above going to jail for this idea, you can create marketing that cuts through in one of Canada's most competitive categories. Their "Bipartisan Wings" campaign drove a 40% jump in wing sales overall and a 47% spike on election night, while the "Reverse Tariffs" campaign delivered a 20% sales boost. Welcome, Adrian and Mike, I am thrilled to have you both here to pull back the curtain on how this partnership really works. 00:02:32.290 — 00:02:33.450 · Adrian Thanks for having us, Alison. 00:02:33.490 — 00:02:34.530 · Mike Thanks, Alison. 00:02:34.570 — 00:02:58.610 · Alison Adrian and Mike, I'm excited to have you here for a bunch of reasons. Getting into the significant business results you're driving is certainly high on the list. But the other part is, despite having hosted this podcast for a few years now, you're the first time that I've had a CMO and their agency CEO join me together. We're going to start with the basics. How did this partnership begin, and what made you both believe this could be something special> Adrian, why don't you kick things off? 00:02:58.650 — 00:04:38.700 · Adrian It was a really fun experience kicking off the partnership, and I think it was a long coming. So, you know, I'd say first, Alison, just in terms of what I thought could be special was I was excited to work on the Pizza Pizza brand. And that brand, you know, Mike and I both grew up in Ontario.  And if you grow up here, Pizza Pizza was around your entire life, basically in one way or another. And I always got a kick out of some of the marketing that Pizza Pizza had done over the years and some of the wild sports promotions. And I remember one time where you could, you know, they would send you a VHS tape along with your pizza at Christmas time or movies and all kinds of fun stuff. And so I was just generally excited to be able to take a look at that brand and sort of understand how had they achieved all of that. And when I got to Pizza Pizza, I realized that a lot of that had just been achieved, you know, in house with a small, scrappy group of people who had done really amazing stuff. But what intrigued me was, you know, wow, what would happen if you were able to hand, you know, partner with one of the top creative shops and strategic agencies in Canada? Where could you take it beyond where it had already gone? So that was that was the part for me that was exciting. And then in terms of how the partnership began, it was really just a phone call. I knew Mike and Zach over the years working in the industry, but we hadn't done too much together. And so I just thought, wow, this would be really fun. This is a top tier crew, and if they'd be at all interested in partnering with us, we could probably really do some amazing work. And also that we would probably see some great results, which of course was important as well. And we were able to achieve all of that, I must say. And here we are. 00:04:38.740 — 00:04:41.020 · Alison So, Mike, what would you add from an agency perspective? 00:04:41.060 — 00:05:36.460 · Mike From an agency perspective, one of the things I'd say, as I sort of reflect back on those early conversations with Adrian, was thinking about like, great partnerships are grounded in a shared ambition. And so the thing that was immediately clear is that the ambition that Adrian had, what he wanted to do with marketing, really lined up well with the type of work that we like to do. So that was certainly business impact, but also about sort of mutual belief in the type of work that we can do together. So there was just this shared ambition from the very beginning. It isn't about one side presenting and one side approving to real shared ambition in terms of the type of work that we wanted to do together. And I like to think of it as us being co-conspirators. Yes, it's a client agency relationship, but really we're co-conspirators in trying to do amazing work for this really iconic Canadian brand. 00:05:36.500 — 00:05:56.020 · Alison One of the things that really struck me about your partnership is that the core team on both sides has remained intact for five years. And maybe part of that is because you are co-conspirators. But in an industry known for turnover, that really is remarkable, so I'd love to share what's contributed to that stability, and why do you think it matters for the work that you produce? 00:05:56.060 — 00:06:58.670 · Mike Yeah. I mean, for those listening who may not know, you talk about turnover, the last stat I saw was around 25%. Like, just think about that for a minute. Where imagine a world where you have 25% of your staff turning over year over year. The last few years we've hovered around 10% ,kind of thing. So we're not up there. But you're right, the industry has a significant amount of turnover. So what do I attribute to, like, I think clarity and candour is a big part of what works in the partnership. And then yes to consistency on the team. So we absolutely have that over the duration of the five years we've been working together. But the other important piece is like adding fresh energy throughout the partnership as well. So to me, that's always the perfect balance, is that you want that consistent core team, but then you always want to have fresh energy coming in and bringing fresh ideas to interpret the brand platform as we have it. And I think that's how we keep things fresh. And that's a big part of my job in making sure that the right people are coming onto the business at the right time. 00:06:59.030 — 00:07:28.910 · Alison That's such an important balance. And if our listeners weren't enticed earlier, they're certainly going to be enticed by how to get from 25% turnover down to 10% turnover. Now, Adrian, you mentioned when you joined Pizza Pizza that there was a very well-established internal creative department handling 99% of the work, and then you brought in Zulu as an agency partner. Now, let's be honest, that could have been a disaster. Egos clashing, turf wars, a real mess. Instead, it's become a real model of collaboration. So how did you navigate that potentially explosive situation? 00:07:28.950 — 00:09:11.880 · Adrian Yes. Um, well, I think personally, I believe in the model where you could have both an internal group and an agency partner and that that could actually create a system versus sort of competition. And so there'd be some things that one group could do and some things the other group could do. And what I found was, you know, the internal team, yeah, someone new comes in, and you could be concerned. What are they going to do? What about my job security and all the things that we've built? And so first thing I found was just to give them confidence that, no, I think that, you know, the leadership believes in you, and the leadership thinks that what you're doing is of great value. But let's take a look at the entire needs of the brand and let's have an honest conversation about, you know, if we were to do more brand equity building marketing, do we truly have the skill set to do that kind of stuff in-house? And the truth is that somewhat. But the team's really focused on the day to day sales, keeping the restaurants looking good, you know, getting all of the materials versioned. And with all of that work, that's a full time job right there. There really was no need to bring in a thir

One in four Canadians lives in a food-insecure household -- and many have jobs, degrees and never imagined needing help. In the latest episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson sits down with Kirstin Beardsley, CEO of Food Banks Canada and Neil Hetherington, CEO of Daily Bread Food Bank, to unpack the scale of this crisis and why brands that go beyond writing a check make a meaningful difference for communities -- and their business. CMAConnect-Ep. 73-Kirstin & Neil w promo.txt English (UK) 00:00:00.920 — 00:00:19.680 · Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, newly retired CMA CEO Alison Simpson. 00:00:24.360 — 00:02:40.450 · Alison Food insecurity in Canada has reached levels we haven't seen in modern history. Let that sink in. Right now, 1 in 4 Canadians lives in a food insecure household. That's 10 million people and includes 2.5 million children. The demand on food banks keeps climbing. March last year alone, there were nearly 2.2 million visits to food banks across the country, the highest number in our history. Behind those statistics are real people, working Canadians who can't afford both rent and groceries. Families with university degrees who never imagined needing help. Newcomers trying to build a life here, and increasingly, people who are employed but still can't make ends meet. Today's conversation matters for all of us, but especially for marketers and brand leaders. While this is fundamentally a crisis that demands policy solutions, brands also have a critical role to play right now, and many are stepping up in innovative and important ways. I'm joined by two leaders on the frontlines of this crisis. Kirstin Beardsley is the CEO of Food Banks Canada, the national organization representing over 5500 food banks and community agencies across Canada. Kirstin has been with the organization since 2015, working her way from Director of Policy to Chief Network Services Officer, before taking on the CEO mantle in 2022. She holds a degree in Women's Studies from New York University, and has built her career at the intersection of policy, logistics and community impact. Neil Hetherington is the CEO of Daily Bread Food Bank in Toronto, where 1 in 10 residents now rely on food bank support. Before joining Daily Bread, Neil led Dixon Hall and was the youngest ever CEO for Habitat for Humanity Toronto at just 25 years old. He brings a systems thinking approach to addressing food insecurity, balancing immediate relief with advocacy for long-term change. Both organizations, I'm proud to say are CMA members, and Neil and Kirstin understand that addressing this crisis requires collaboration between government, community organizations and the private sector. Today, we're going to explore what's really happening across Canada, how our landscape is changing and how brands can make meaningful contributions writing checks and beyond. Kirstin and Neil, thank you both so much for joining me. I know you're incredibly busy and I really appreciate you being here. 00:02:40.450 — 00:02:42.690 · Neil Really glad to be here.  Kirstin: Thanks for having us. 00:02:42.730 — 00:03:10.960 · Alison So let's start by grounding our listeners in what's actually happening right now. Some of those numbers are absolutely staggering, but I think it's important that we don't let people become numb to them. So, Neil, let's start with you. In Toronto specifically, you're seeing over 4.1 million food bank visits annually, a 340% increase since 2019. Can you help us understand what that actually looks like on the ground? And who are the people that are walking through your doors today compared to five years ago? 00:03:11.080 — 00:04:11.100 · Neil Yeah. You know, it took 38 years for Daily Bread to to get to 1 million client visits in a single year, and then only two years to get to 2 million. One year to get to 3 million, and then another year to get to 4 million. And so we have seen this rapid growth of individuals who have to rely on food charity. So there have been those who have always been with the food bank. Those would be people who are on income supports that are wholly inadequate. So you take somebody, for example, on disability. They receive about $1,400 per month. Nobody can survive on $1,400 a month. They have to rely on friends, family and charity. But the growth that we're seeing is primarily composed right now of individuals who have done everything right. It's individuals between 19 and 44. 60% of them have a university or college education, and 50% of them have full time employment. So you think about that. They've gone to school, they've got a job, they're working hard, yet they have to come to a food bank. And that's primarily because of a lack of affordable housing in our city. 00:04:11.180 — 00:04:55.860 · Kirstin Yeah. I mean, what we're seeing is, is really what Daily Bread and Neil are seeing in Toronto magnified and multiplied right across the country. We're seeing nationally the trend of working folks, folks with employment as their main source of income, as more reliant on food banks. That's not just a Toronto-based trend. We're seeing that right across the country. But there are some places that have growth, as has Quebec, in the number of folks relying on food banks. And we're also seeing in the north. So where food insecurity has always been at crisis levels in Canada, that that is right now with the high costs, extreme costs, as well as incomes that aren't keeping pace, that more and more folks in the North are also relying on organizations like food banks to get by. 00:04:56.020 — 00:05:18.930 · Alison So Kirstin, building on what you were saying, it's really surprising to me that 20% of your clients at food banks are employed. 57% of clients at the Daily Bread Food Bank have a university or post-secondary degree, yet they clearly still have a need. So, Neil, what is this telling us about structural economic challenges that are facing Canadians right now? And how does your profile of clients continue to shift? 00:05:18.970 — 00:06:15.150 · Neil It's telling us that the social contract is broken. It used to be that that you would be able to get by when all of those parameters were, were fulfilled. And that isn't the case. And here's the thing. We decided in the 90s as a country, to get out of building affordable housing. We stopped building cooperative housing. We stopped building social housing. Yet our population was increasing and we are paying for that two generations later. And I would argue it's going to take us two generations more. Despite Build Canada homes coming about, despite $13 billion coming to affordable housing through that that excellent program, it's going to take us a while to build out of that. So in the interim, we need to make sure that there are income supports that are appropriate for Canadians. Income supports like the Canada Disability Benefit, which came into force just this last July, where $6.1 billion is going to go to those that are the most vulnerable in our society, those that are relying on food banks all across the country. 00:06:15.310 — 00:06:26.270 · Alison And, Kirstin, on a national level, you're seeing 34% of food bank users are newcomers to Canada who have been here for ten years or less. So what's driving that and what does it mean for how we're thinking about supporting new Canadians? 00:06:26.310 — 00:07:22.540 · Kirstin Yeah, I think it's important to note that there isn't one single group that's driving the growth in food bank use that, as we've said, we've seen growth across the country in a number of demographics. But that said, we know that newcomers come to Canada and meet precarious situations. So those who are employed are often more likely to be in a precarious gig employment that doesn't give consistent hours. They're more likely to earn lower wages. And if they do lose their jobs, they're less likely to be eligible for the programs that we do have in place to support folks through those tough times, things like employment insurance or provincial social assistance, but because of immigration status, are less likely to be eligible for those programs. So, as Neil was saying, what this demonstrates is just a massive gap in our social safety net. The social safety net we have is broken. And it's not ensuring that folks who are the most in need are able to get by no matter what, no matter who they are across the country. 00:07:22.660 — 00:07:44.700 · Alison And with that being the reality today, you're both operating in environments where demand is exploding and resources simply aren't keeping pace. So over half of Canadian food banks have had to reduce services and give out less food because of the pressure, yet the demand increases. So, Neil, what does the operational reality look like when you can't meet the demand? What impossible choices are you having to make? 00:07:45.220 — 00:08:39.440 · Neil Well, that reality across the country is a tough one for anybody. Every single time there is a change, it means that there is one last meal provided by a food bank to that parent, to that child. And so as frustrating as that is, we're using that as our fuel to inspire us to advocate even louder. We are discontent with the status quo, where we say enough is enough, and we need to use the stats and the numbers and the stories that we have here of family after family, tens of thousands of them on a daily basis, and use those statistics to be able to say, here are the policy alternatives that all three levels of government have failed on, and give them the alternatives to be able to start to build a more hopeful society, to build a place where everybody can thrive in community. And that flows from making sure that people have the right