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Cabernet and Pray

Author: Jeremy Jernigan is a former megachurch pastor turned wine-loving theologian who’s not afraid to ask the hard questions about Christianity. As the host of Cabernet and Pray, Jeremy blends deep theological exploration with cultural critique, all while sippin...

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Sip the wine, shake your faith.
58 Episodes
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What happens when Christianity gets weaponized for political gain? When culture wars hijack the gospel of love? In this episode, we unpack John Fugelsang's book, Separation of Church and Hate, exploring why following Jesus might actually mean breaking up with some forms of Christianity. Pour a glass, lean in, and let’s talk about what it really means to love God and neighbor in an age of outrage. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Save your seat for the AZ Tasting Event on October 27th: https://communionwineco.com/events/az-tasting-event/  Links: Get John's book: https://amzn.to/4qnnyiD John's podcast: https://www.johnfugelsang.com/podcast  John on Substack: https://johnfugelsang.substack.com/ 
What if doing the right thing still made you guilty? Dietrich Bonhoeffer believed that following Jesus sometimes meant stepping straight into the mess—into what he called “the fellowship of guilt.” But was he right? In this episode, we grapple with one of the most challenging ethical questions in the Christian narrative: Can faithfulness ever necessitate breaking the rules? Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
What happens when Christians start rethinking the very idea of hell? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we sit down with Brian Recker to ask the questions many of us were told we weren’t allowed to ask. Is hell really eternal conscious torment? What about annihilation? Could universalism actually be more faithful to Jesus? And how do history, culture, and scripture all play into the pictures we’ve inherited? We pour a glass of wine, get honest about our doubts, and wrestle with what kind of God we actually believe in. If good theology is theology that looks like Jesus, then what does that mean for our view of hell? If you’ve ever felt the tension between fear-based religion and the radical love of Jesus, this conversation might be the permission you’ve been waiting for. Want to find out why so many Christians are hell-bent on rethinking hell? Listen in. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Links: Order Brian's book: Hell Bent Brian on Substack Brian on Instagram
What if the shrinking of evangelicalism isn’t a crisis to be feared but an opportunity to rediscover something truer, leaner, and more like Jesus? In this episode, I sit down with author Michelle Van Loon to talk about what’s being lost, what’s worth keeping, and why smaller might actually be better for the future of faith. Grab a glass, pull up a chair, and join us as we explore how downsizing could make room for growth that actually matters. Click here to watch it on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Links: Michelle's book Downsizing Michelle's website: michellevanloon.com  Michelle's Substack: substack.com/@michellevanloon
What if you’re not the same person you used to be—and that’s exactly the point? In this episode, I explore the strange and beautiful truth that growth requires us to let old versions of ourselves fade away, like water waiting to be turned into wine. From awkward past opinions (yes, I found some of mine in print!) to Taylor Swift lyrics and even a little wisdom from Brian Zahnd and Rob Bell, we’ll talk about what it means to thank yesterday’s “you” and make space for tomorrow’s. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Get your "pick one" shirt here: https://communion-wine-co.printify.me/product/8311848/wine-shirt-wine-tasting-gifts-for-him-wine-drinking-shirt-wine-lover-christian-wine-shirt-funny-wine-shirt-drinking-shirt 
In this episode, we dig into why the most famous command in Christianity has become more of a coffee mug slogan than an actual way of life. We’ll explore how we’ve domesticated Jesus’ radical ethic into something polite and toothless… and what it would take to bring its wild, world-flipping power back. We’ll look at what happens when faith stops being about certainty and starts being about curiosity. Pour a glass, pull up a chair, and let’s talk about how to actually live the thing Jesus said was the point all along. Click here to watch it on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Links: https://amzn.to/4ouvZbf - Preorder "Reviving the Golden Rule" andrew-decort.com - Andrew's newsletter iffglobal.org - learn more about Andrew's work  andrewdecort.substack.com - Andrew's series "Reframe"  
What if evil is never as strong as it seems? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we wade into the heaviness of the world (child trafficking, genocide, injustice) and wrestle with what it means to have hope in the face of it. We explore a surprising biblical theme that runs throughout the Psalms and the prophets. We consider Bonhoeffer’s call to jam a spoke in the wheel, Brueggemann’s reminder that tyrants fear artists, and the unexpected spiritual significance of South Park.  Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
What if we told the stories the church has tried to bury? In Episode 51 of Cabernet and Pray, I sit down with Lucas Wilson—academic, editor of Shame-Sex Attraction, and survivor. We dive into the sobering realities of conversion therapy, explore the toxic cocktail of shame and theology, and examine how fear—especially the fear of hell—is weaponized to cause unimaginable harm. Lucas brings a mix of wit, candor, and charm to one of the hardest conversations the church needs to have. If you’ve ever wondered how the church got this so wrong (and how we can start making it right), this one’s for you. Click here to watch it on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  ----------------- Get the book "Shame-Sex Attraction" https://amzn.to/3GMANYg 
Is America a Christian nation? In this bold milestone episode of Cabernet and Pray, we take a hard look at Jesus’ own criteria for judging nations from Matthew 25. Spoiler: Jesus doesn’t mention Supreme Court rulings, Ten Commandments in schools, or how many evangelicals show up to vote. He talks about the poor, the immigrant, the sick, and the prisoner. This episode might make you uncomfortable. It might make you angry. But it just might make you see Jesus more clearly. And that’s the whole point. Grab a glass and join us at the intersection of wine, politics, and the Kingdom of God. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
What if there’s more to Jesus than the guy in sandals from Nazareth? In this episode, Kevin Sweeney returns to dive into the deep end of the theological pool—exploring the radical beauty of the Cosmic Christ and the liberating call of the Concrete Jesus. It’s the episode where mysticism meets justice, the black prophetic tradition meets the mystics, and we explore how to resist the “abstract white Jesus.” Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
What if loving your neighbor means confronting someone else? In this episode, Jeremy takes a deep dive into a misunderstood (and rarely discussed) concept in Christian ethics: the paradox of tolerance. What happens when hospitality toward one becomes hostility toward others? And what if Jesus intentionally excluded people... for the sake of the vulnerable? Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
Ever wondered what happens when two theologically curious podcast hosts bring their shows together over a glass of wine? Episode 47 is part divine disruption, part spiritual therapy session, and 100% a good time. Jeremy Jernigan sits down with Josh Patterson of Rethinking Faith to talk about reconstructing theology, open and relational views of God, and why some former pastors become bartenders. This episode is an unfiltered swirl of laughter, wisdom, and spicy takes on hell, omnipotence, and what we do after leaving church leadership. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
What happens when one of the most provocative theological voices of our time sits down with a glass of wine and reimagines everything? In this episode, Jeremy talks with Brian Zahnd about peacemaking, the prophetic role of the church, why evangelicalism may not recover, and what happens when we start to believe Jesus actually meant what he said. It’s bold, it’s challenging, and it’s full of grace. Plus, there are a few surprises, like pipe collecting and Scotch favorites. Whether you're curious, skeptical, or just thirsty for better conversations about faith, this one’s for you. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
What if the only thing separating you from deeper faith… is your doubt? In this episode, we uncork the connection between spiritual curiosity and our inability to see clearly — and why that’s not a flaw, but a feature of real theology. Jesus doesn’t demand certainty. He invites wonder. Click here to watch the episode on video. -------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in 
This week, we’re uncorking a bold conversation that challenges assumptions, celebrates authenticity, and dives into the complexity of faith and identity. What does it mean to be queer and Christian? You’ll hear personal journeys, tough questions, unexpected grace, and the beauty of holding space for queerness in spirituality. Whether you're in the pews or at Pride, this one’s for you. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://bit.ly/rebuilding-faith Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  ----------------- Wines in this episode: 2020 Paso Ranches Zinfandel Sonoma-Cutrer Chardonnay Sonoma Coast Links: Official site: www.brandanrobertson.com Pre-order Queer and Christian: www.queerchristian.org  Podcast: The Queer & Christian Podcast – streaming on all major platforms
Are there different ways to understand hell in Christianity? In this thought-provoking episode, Jeremy tackles one of the most challenging theological concepts that many struggle with. If you've ever questioned traditional teachings about eternal punishment or wondered if there are other interpretations supported by scripture, this episode offers a refreshing perspective that might completely transform your understanding of Christianity.  Click here to watch the episode on video. Key Points: Three Historical Christian Views of Hell: Infernalism/Eternal Conscious Torment: The traditional view where non-believers suffer eternally in hell. Annihilationism: Those who reject God cease to exist after death (also called "soul sleep"). Christian Universalism: Jesus will ultimately save everyone, though some may go through a refining process after death. Principles for Considering Hell: Good theology should look like Jesus Our view should reflect all New Testament writers Christians should have humility about who is "in" or "out" Your view of hell is not an essential part of Christianity Fear of hell is a cheap motivator to follow Jesus Biblical Foundation: The episode references 1 John 4:16 (perfect love casts out fear) and Romans 2:4 (God's kindness leads to repentance) to establish that God motivates through love, not fear. Wine Featured: 2019 Sequoia Grove Cabernet Sauvignon (Napa Valley) with distinctive herbaceous notes (bell pepper, jalapeño) followed by secondary cherry and red fruit flavors. Recommended Reading: "Her Gates Will Never Be Shut" by Brad Jersak "That All Shall Be Saved" by David Bentley Hart -------------- Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community and get access to exclusive content and experiences. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups 
What if drinking wine was more than just a pleasure—it was a spiritual practice? In this episode, we sit down with theologian and wine expert Gisela Kreglinger to explore the deep connections between wine, faith, and community. Growing up in a German winery, Gisela brings a unique perspective on how wine shapes our conversations, our celebrations, and even our theology. From the role of wine in biblical times to the way it fosters deeper human connection today, this episode will challenge the way you think about your next glass. Click here to watch the episode on video. Key Points: Meet Gisela Kreglinger: Theologian, author, and wine expert who grew up on a German winery. Wine as a Spiritual Practice: Wine isn't just for drinking—it can shape conversations, enhance meals, and even act as a form of prayer. Biblical Roots of Wine: Exploring wine’s significance in Scripture, including the Passover tradition of four cups of wine, Noah’s vineyard, and Jesus’ first miracle at the Wedding of Cana. Cultural Differences in Wine Consumption: How European wine traditions differ from America’s relationship with alcohol and why that matters. Holy Tipsiness: The fine line between drinking as an act of joy and overindulgence. Reclaiming Wine in Christian Practice: How churches have distanced themselves from wine and why Gisela believes it’s time to restore its sacred role. Wines in This Episode: 🍷 2020 Coastline Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon (Paso Robles, California) – A fruit-forward yet balanced cab with notes of blackberry, pipe tobacco, and wet gravel. 🍷 Moulin-à-Vent from the Dichon family (Beaujolais, France) – A full-bodied Gamay with rich complexity, imported by Kermit Lynch. Final Thoughts: This episode isn’t just for wine lovers—it’s for anyone interested in the intersection of faith, culture, and connection. Whether you’re a casual drinker or a wine aficionado, Gisela’s insights will make you rethink the way you experience wine. Listen now and join the conversation! 🍇🍷 Links: The Spirituality of Wine The Soul of Wine Cup Overflowing Wine in the Word Gisela's website Gisela on Instagram -------------- Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in   Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community and get access to exclusive content and experiences. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups 
Is karma real? Or does Jesus operate in a way that turns our sense of fairness upside down? In this episode, we dive into one of Jesus’ most radical parables from Matthew 20, exploring why fairness might not be the point—and why that’s actually good news. Grab a glass of wine and join us for a thought-provoking discussion on grace, justice, and what it really means to follow Jesus. Click here to watch the episode on video. Featured Wine:🍷 Destino Red Blend (2019) – Fifth Empire, Portugal A rich and dark blend featuring Touriga Nacional, known for its bold character. Notes of plum and blueberry, balanced with smooth complexity from four different grapes. Key Discussion Points: The Myth of Karma vs. Jesus’ Radical Grace: While karma teaches that you get what you deserve, Jesus flips this idea upside down, offering generosity instead of fairness. The Parable of the Vineyard (Matthew 20): A landowner pays all workers the same wage—whether they worked 12 hours or just one. What does this reveal about God’s character? Fairness vs. Generosity: How do we react when others receive grace that we feel they don’t deserve? Jealousy & God's Kindness: Are we bothered when God blesses those we deem "unworthy"? Personal Reflection: Is Jesus enough for us, or do we need others to "lose" for us to feel like we've won? Takeaway:Instead of keeping score, what if we embraced a world where grace, not fairness, defines our faith? Jesus invites us to welcome others into the vineyard—are we celebrating or gatekeeping? ----------------- Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/rebuilding-faith 
Join Jeremy and Tim Whitaker, founder of The New Evangelicals, for an unfiltered and entertaining conversation tackling tough topics in faith, church culture, and beyond—all while sipping on wine. Whether you're wrestling with your faith, navigating church hurt, or just curious about new perspectives, this episode delivers humor, depth, and a lot of honesty. Don’t miss Tim’s unforgettable attempt at opening his first bottle of wine and his bold insights on Christianity today. Click here to watch the episode on video. Key Points Covered in Episode 40: Introduction of Tim Whitaker and The New Evangelicals: The organization supports those grappling with faith and church hurt. Focus on creating a safe space for exploring progressive Christianity. Tagline: “Faith isn’t easy, hurt makes it harder.” Wine Talk: Jeremy enjoys a Story of Soil Syrah 2022 with notes of red plum, blueberry, and vanilla bean. Tim hilariously opens his first bottle of wine, Joel Gott 815 Cabernet Sauvignon 2021, adding an unplanned comedy segment. Tim’s Faith Journey: From a conservative evangelical upbringing to a more inclusive, justice-focused Christianity. Critiques of political entanglements in modern evangelicalism. Emphasis on expanding one’s faith perspective beyond denominational boundaries. Advocating for the Marginalized: Discussions on supporting LGBTQ+ individuals, immigrants, and other underrepresented groups within and outside the church. The pitfalls of using theology to oppress rather than liberate. Engaging with the Bible: Tim’s shift from viewing the Bible as a rulebook to embracing it as a complex, nuanced collection of writings. Encouragement to focus on Jesus’ teachings of love, justice, and inclusion. Parenting and Faith: Should kids be raised in the same traditional church settings their parents left? Tim argues for raising children with openness and curiosity rather than indoctrination. Criticism and Accountability in the Church: Challenges of holding leaders and institutions accountable while staying hopeful. The role of Christians in advocating for justice and resisting harmful ideologies like Christian nationalism. Tim’s Take on Digital Content Creation: Balancing fast-paced news reactions with thoughtful analysis. Addressing negativity from critics while staying grounded. Lightning Round Questions: Tim’s past belief he was wrong about: thinking LGBTQ+ people were inherently sinful. Main issue facing American Christianity: the rise of Christian nationalism. This episode is perfect for anyone exploring new ways to engage with their faith or questioning traditional church teachings. Tim’s candidness, combined with his humor and passion, makes this an unforgettable conversation. Grab a glass of wine and join the ride! Links: https://www.thenewevangelicals.com/ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-new-evangelicals-podcast/id1557794865 https://www.instagram.com/thenewevangelicals/ https://open.spotify.com/show/1czIuPbjXFt50L2fxHmdUe https://www.tiktok.com/@thenewevangelicals https://www.instagram.com/timwhitakerspeaks/  ----------------- Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/rebuilding-faith 
What happens when the God of the Old Testament seems unrecognizable next to the Jesus of the New Testament? In this thought-provoking episode of Cabernet and Pray, we tackle what Jeremy calls “the worst chapter in the Bible,” Numbers 31. Together, we confront the shocking themes of revenge, violence, and divine commands that seem incompatible with the love of Jesus. With a glass of Sokol Blosser 2021 Pinot Noir in hand, we explore how ancient contexts and human perceptions of God shape scripture—and what this means for our faith today. Don’t miss this deep dive into the Bible’s most challenging narratives. Click here to watch the episode on video. Wines Featured: Sokol Blosser 2021 Watershed Block Pinot Noir Notes of potting soil, dried leaves, cranberry, raspberry, and clove. A perfect pairing for deep conversations about theology. Key Discussion Points: Introduction to Numbers 31: Jeremy reflects on the challenges faced as a pastor in interpreting the Old Testament. Focus on Numbers 31: a chapter filled with revenge, violence, and troubling divine commands. A Brutal Look at Numbers 31: God commands Moses to wage a war of revenge against the Midianites. Controversial instructions to kill men, women, and boys, sparing only virgin girls, presented as plunder. The unsettling notion of 32 virgins being allocated as God’s share of the spoils. Reconciling Numbers 31 with the Nature of Jesus: The difficulty of aligning Numbers 31 with the nonviolent, sacrificial love exemplified by Jesus. Examples of misinterpretation: Justifying actions like the Crusades by blending Old Testament violence with Christian theology. Historical and Cultural Context: Insights from early church father Origen: When a passage seems unworthy of God, seek deeper spiritual meaning. Greg Boyd’s Cross Vision: God’s willingness to meet people in their context, even when their understanding is limited. Andy Stanley’s Irresistible: The importance of unhitching modern faith from Old Testament practices and covenantal frameworks. A Framework for Interpretation: Jesus as the clearest image of God: “What God looks like when there are no clouds in the way.” Viewing problematic Old Testament passages as reflections of human culture and sin, not divine character. Takeaways for Faith: Christians don’t need to fear difficult scriptures but must read them through the lens of Jesus. Numbers 31 reveals more about ancient Israelites’ worldview than about God’s true nature. The Bible’s ultimate purpose is to point us to Jesus, the unclouded vision of God. Jeremy leaves listeners with the challenge to dig deeper into scripture, trusting that a clearer picture of God emerges through Jesus. Christians can engage with difficult passages and grow a faith rooted in love, humility, and understanding. ----------- Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? Sign up your email and I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in  Cabernet and Pray is an authentic, thoughtfully curated, human-hosted podcast that is free, but not cheap. Please consider supporting the content Jeremy creates by joining the Rebuilding Faith patron community. Find out more here: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/rebuilding-faith 
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