Choiceology with Katy Milkman

Luke Skywalker, Frodo Baggins, Katniss Everdeen, the main characters of many great stories, they all have one thing in common: the shape of their journey. From answering the call to adventure, to undergoing tests of character and strengths, to triumphantly returning home forever changed. It's a classic narrative structure that's inspired countless tales from ancient myths to modern media. But it's not just great for entertainment. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how this specific type of storytelling can be leveraged to make your life more manageable, exciting, and meaningful. Writer and performer Ethan Gilsdorf has written and spoken about how his childhood obsession with the fantasy role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons saved his life. For David Fajgenbaum, a physician and associate professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, what saved his life was sheer determination and faith, but sharing his story has given new meaning to the incredible feats he's overcome. David is also the co-founder and president of the Castleman Disease Collaborative Network and co-founder and president of Every Cure, a non-profit that helps repurpose drugs for multiple diseases. He's the author of Chasing My Cure: A Doctor's Race to Turn Hope Into Action.Katy speaks with Kurt Gray, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, about what happens when you tell the story of your life in the style of a "hero's journey." Kurt directs the Deepest Beliefs Lab and the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. He's also the author of a new book out in January 2025 called Outraged: Why We Fight About Morality and Politics, which you can pre-order now.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/podcast. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.{1024-0BGR)

Most parents encounter resistance from their children. Perhaps when the kids are young and turning their noses up at vegetables, or when they're teenagers and balking at curfews or dress codes.So what's the best way to encourage good choices in the face of a rebellious kid? Or a rebellious adult, for that matter?In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the surprising ways that resistance to authority can be leveraged for positive change. During the mid 1990s, the "Truth" anti-youth smoking campaign was everywhere. Many TV ads cleverly harnessed the teenage penchant for rebellion, using guerilla filming techniques and revealing hidden truths about smoking known to the tobacco industry for years. The campaign drastically lowered youth smoking rates and remains one of the most effective campaigns in history. Fran Kelly was on the frontlines, leading the advertising campaign at Arnold Worldwide. Francis "Fran" Kelly is the president and CEO of branding consulting firm CEOVIEW Branding. He was previously the president and CEO of global advertising agency Arnold Worldwide.Next, Katy speaks with Christopher Bryan about his research on leveraging rebellion as a way to encourage healthy eating among adolescents. You can learn more in his paper titled "Harnessing Adolescent Values to Motivate Healthier Eating." Christopher Bryan is an associate professor of business, government, and society at the University of Texas at Austin's McCombs School of Business. He is also co-founder and co-director of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0824-H4BA)

Do you recall the best concert you ever went to? Best trip? Best meal? Chances are good that a few memories come to mind—maybe not every detail of the event, but perhaps a couple great moments. It can go the opposite way, too. Worst travel experience. Worst date. Our memory works in snapshots of particular parts of our experience.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a predictable distortion in the way people remember experiences. And we’re doing it in part to honor a very special memory: the memory of the great Daniel Kahneman. He was a Nobel laureate, international best-selling author, repeated Choiceology guest, and a co-founder of the field that is at the heart of this show: behavioral economics. Our opinion of an experience is shaped by which parts we remember most. The same can hold true for how we remember people. Matthew Polly is the best-selling author of Bruce Lee: A Life, a biography of the late great Bruce Lee. He retells the story of how this legendary martial artist, actor, and cultural icon is understood in our collective memory. And then he reveals certain nuances in his biography that may change the way you perceive his legacy.Next, Katy speaks with Maurice Schweitzer, the Cecilia Yen Koo Professor of Operations, Information, and Decisions at the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania. Maurice explains how this memory distortion can be leveraged to better retain staff, improve your experience at work, have better conversations with colleagues, and even plan a more enjoyable vacation. He's also the author of Friend and Foe: When to Cooperate, When to Compete, and How to Succeed at Both. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.All names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0924-U226)

Your car breaks down. Must be because you skipped an oil change last month. Or your favorite team loses. Well, that was because of a bad call by a corrupt referee. In reality, many events involve multiple contributing factors. But we tend to gravitate toward single causes. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at our desire to explain things simply, even when the truth may be more complex.Where unidentified flying objects are concerned, there is rarely a simple answer. They'd be identified flying objects otherwise. So in the absence of conclusive evidence, UFOs capture the imagination.Case in point: the Rendlesham Forest Incident. We’ll hear from UFO expert (and skeptic) Toby Ball about a fascinating series of sightings in the Rendlesham Forest in the early 1980s. Toby deconstructs the events—and the rush to conclusions by certain media outlets—in search of an explanation.Toby explores the folklore and culture surrounding UFO encounters on his show Strange Arrivals. He also appears on the weekly podcast Crime Writers On.Next, Katy speaks with Tania Lombrozo about her research on our mind’s preference for simple explanations—and when that can lead us astray. Tania is the Arthur W. Marks Professor of Psychology at Princeton University and lab director at Princeton’s Concepts and Cognition Lab.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/Choiceology.If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.All names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.0924-PU2Z

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the often-misunderstood and surprisingly common Dunning-Kruger effect with an interview featuring one of the researchers who first identified it, David Dunning.But we start with the story of Cecilia Jimenez, the humble Spanish grandmother and amateur landscape painter who took it upon herself to restore a fresco in her local church. The results made international headlines—and briefly made Ceclia Jimenez a household name—for all the wrong reasons.Andrew Flack has a lot of compassion for Cecilia. He met with her several times in the process of writing an opera with composer Paul Fowler called Behold the Man about Ceclia’s ill-fated but ultimately beneficial project. Next, David Dunning explains how—contrary to popular belief—we are all at the mercy of the Dunning-Kruger effect from time to time, and that we should be more humble in recognizing what we don’t know about what we don’t know.David Dunning is the Ann and Charles R. Walgreen, Jr., Professor of the Study of Human Understanding at the University of Michigan. The paper "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments," co-authored with Justin Kruger, led to the bias being named The Dunning-Kruger effect.  Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.All names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0824-M9R6)

Pursuing a goal alone is convenient. Whether you're training for a marathon or aiming to read 20 books this year, it's convenient to move at your own pace and schedule. But having a gym buddy or a book club pal can make a bigger difference to your goal completion than you think. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at the benefits of tandem goal pursuit in the context of training for a new Olympic sport: kite foiling. Max Maeder is a 17-year-old kite foiling athlete and many-time world champion of the sport. Max is also a recent Olympic bronze medalist, having just represented Singapore at the 2024 Paris Games and winning the country's lone medal. To get to this point, Max has been working with the same training partner since 2021. And in this solo sport, working with a partner has made all the difference. Next, Katy speaks with Rachel Gershon about their research on tandem goal pursuit and the many benefits of working toward goals with a partner. You can learn more in their working paper titled "Friends With Health Benefits: A Field Experiment."Rachel Gershon is an assistant professor of marketing at the Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley. Her research focuses on consumer judgments and choice with an emphasis on social, prosocial, and health-related behaviors.Special thanks to Cam Farrar for use of his TikTok audio and the International Kiteboarding Association for use of their audio. You can find kite-foiling videos on the IKA's YouTube channel @kiteclasses. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting From Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0824-JKFS)

When you're facing loss—say, in a board game or during a sporting event or with a declining stock—it can be difficult to remember your true tolerance for risk. You're likely to seek risk more than you normally would.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a tendency to seek risk in the face of losses when those losses aren't yet finalized, but how chalking up those losses and moving on can actually help you recalibrate your appetite for risk.During the American Revolutionary War, George Washington and his generals often adopted a strategy of retreating, or accepting losses on the battlefield, in order to regroup and live to fight another day. Their strategy was often successful against the British, who burned through men and equipment as they doubled down in their desire to win individual battles at the expense of their goal of regaining control of the American colonies.Mary Stockwell is a historian, writer, and former history professor at Lourdes University in Ohio. Her work is focused on the American Revolution. Her recent book is titled Unlikely General: "Mad" Anthony Wayne and the Battle for America.Next, Katy speaks with Alex Imas about his research on risk-taking over time and how mental choice bracketing impacts our decisions in the face of loss. You can learn more in Alex's paper titled "The Realization Effect: Risk-Taking after Realized Versus Paper Losses." Alex Imas is a professor of behavioral science and economics at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab.If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0624-4MRP)

Over the years, Choiceology has offered a lot of advice for making better decisions. In this special episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we bring you the story of a video game that is surprisingly effective at reducing decision errors, and you'll hear about a practical checklist for improving choices in many different contexts.Solving fictitious mysteries might sound like fun and games, but the video game MISSING: The Pursuit of Terry Hughes was designed with a serious purpose in mind: to help intelligence analysts avoid decision-making traps. In 2015, James Korris and Carey Morewedge worked together to design a video game for the intelligence agency IARPA, the Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity, and measured the biases exhibited before and after playing the series of 90-minute games. The results were remarkable and extremely durable.James Korris is president and CEO of Creative Technologies Inc. in Los Angeles, and is a pioneer in immersive game-based simulation for military learning. You can see a preview of the game James designed titled MISSING: The Pursuit of Terry Hughes.Next, Katy speaks with Carey Morewedge about the game and about his research on effective decision-debiasing techniques. You can learn more in the paper Carey co-authored with James titled "Debiasing Decisions: Improved Decision Making With a Single Training Intervention."Carey Morewedge is a professor of marketing at Boston University Questrom School of Business who studies psychological biases and how to reduce them. Finally, Katy speaks with Jack Soll to hear his checklist of four simple ways to debias yourself before making decisions, big or small. You can read more in the article Jack and Katy co-authored with John Payne titled "Outsmart Your Own Biases." Jack Soll is the Gregory Mario & Jeremy Mario Distinguished Professor of Management and Organizations at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/Choiceology.If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0524-2GW1)

"Don't judge a book by its cover" is an old adage for a good reason. Elegant book cover designs can create a positive impression and make you more likely to judge the writing quality more positively. But these traits—cover art and writing—are separate and distinct features of books. So why do we allow the judgment of one trait to spill over to another unrelated trait? In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a tendency to allow our judgments of one trait of a person (or product or company) to overly influence our judgments of another, unrelated trait of that same person or product or company. The Traitors is a popular reality TV show, where contestants are assigned either the role of a "Faithful" or "Traitor." Those selected as Traitors eliminate Faithfuls each night and try to keep their identity a secret so the Faithfuls don't vote to eliminate them. By the end of the game, over $100,000 is up for grabs for those left standing. But how can the Faithfuls sniff out the Traitors and decide whom to banish? How do people form judgments of others and decide whom to trust? Wilfred Webster was a contestant on The Traitors, Season 1, on the BBC and played the game brilliantly, leveraging the way he appeared to other contestants to make it to the end. Wilfred Webster is the runner up to The Traitors, Season 1, on the BBC. Before The Traitors, Will managed face-to-face fundraising for one of the largest charities in the U.K. Today, he's a content creator and fundraising consultant. Next, Katy speaks with Daniel Read about his research on how our evaluations of a person or product or company on a single trait can spill over and excessively influence our judgments of that same person or product or company on another, separate trait. You can learn more in Daniel's recent paper titled "CSR Halo: The Gift that Keeps on Giving?"Daniel Read is a professor of behavioral science at Warwick Business School at The University of Warwick in the U.K. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.Because environmental, social and governance (ESG) strategies exclude some securities, ESG-focused products may not be able to take advantage of the same opportunities or market trends as products that do not use such strategies. Additionally, the criteria used to select companies for investment may result in investing in securities, industries or sectors that underperform the market as a whole.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0524-ZXT5) 

Are rules made to be followed—or meant to be broken? Often, the answer will depend on culture and the context in which people make decisions. In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how carefully people in different contexts follow social norms, rules, and procedures. We'll also see how strict and relaxed cultures affect the quality of our decisions—and how to find the sweet spot depending on your goals.Professional kitchens have historically been challenging work environments: high standards, long hours with low pay, and a strong hierarchy of cooks in the kitchen. "Yes, chef" was the only appropriate reply to higher-ranked chefs when Simon Rogan came through the ranks during the 1980s and '90s—a time when kitchen culture was tight and uncompromising. Today, Simon is working hard to change that culture across his restaurant group. Simon Rogan is a chef and restaurateur in the U.K. whose flagship restaurant, L'Enclume, has three Michelin stars and also holds a Michelin Green Star for its sustainable practices. Simon also runs a culinary program for young chefs called the Academy by Simon Rogan. Next, Katy speaks with Michele Gelfand about her research on tight and loose cultures and their impact on decision-making in different contexts. You can learn more from Michele’s paper “Differences Between Tight and Loose Cultures” and take the quiz to determine if you tend to lean tight or loose. Michele Gelfand is the John H. Scully Professor in Cross-Cultural Management and Organizational Behavior at Stanford University. She’s also a member of the National Academy of Sciences and the author of the book Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0424-TPAD)

In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how framing a decision based on what you stand to lose versus what you stand to gain affects your tolerance of risk.Luis Green was a contestant on the popular TV game show Deal or No Deal. The game is largely one of chance, but there are moments during play where the contestant has an option to accept a cash offer to quit. At one point in the game, Luis was offered $333,000 to simply walk away. A guaranteed win! It seems like an obvious choice. But as you’ll hear from the story, there are other factors that influenced his decision.Katy illustrates these factors with a version of a famous experiment. Volunteers are presented with two differently worded but mathematically identical scenarios. A simple shift from framing the scenario as a potential gain to one of potential loss results in starkly different choices from the volunteers.Next, Katy speaks with special guest Daniel Kahneman about the underlying theory that explains human behavior in these types of situations. Daniel Kahneman served as professor of psychology and public affairs emeritus at the Woodrow Wilson School and the Eugene Higgins Professor of Psychology Emeritus at Princeton University. He was awarded the 2002 Nobel Prize in Economics for his pioneering research with Amos Tversky. Their work helped establish the field of behavioral economics. Kahneman also wrote the bestselling book Thinking, Fast and Slow.Finally, Katy speaks with Colin Camerer about some of his favorite studies on risk seeking in the domain of losses, as well as practical approaches for avoiding this less-than-ideal behavior. Colin Camerer is the Robert Kirby Professor of Behavioral Finance and Economics at the California Institute of Technology, where he teaches cognitive psychology and economics. You can read his paper “Prospect Theory in the Wild: Evidence from the Field” here.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0424-VAX6)

When someone asks, "What's your favorite restaurant?" odds are you're inclined to recommend a place you've eaten at recently—even if it's not really your favorite. It's just top of mind. Why do we weigh recent events so heavily? And how does this tendency impact important decisions, like whom to vote for or how to conduct medical procedures? In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a phenomenon that can cause us to overweight recent events compared to earlier events and make suboptimal decisions. The 1968 presidential election was one of the closest elections in American history. Following an eventful year of civil unrest, war, and high-profile assassinations, eleventh-hour political machinations from Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon majorly impacted results. "October surprises," or last-minute revelations in the days before a November election, can weigh heavily on voters' minds at the polling booths. John A. Farrell documents the surprising events leading up to 1968 Election Day and President Richard Nixon's narrow victory.John A. Farrell is a historian and celebrated political biographer. He is the best-selling author of Richard Nixon: The Life, and his latest book is Ted Kennedy: A Life.Next, Katy speaks with Manasvini Singh about her research on recency effect and its impacts on physician decision-making in the delivery room. You can learn more in the Science paper Manasvini authored, titled "Heuristics in The Delivery Room."Manasvini Singh is an assistant professor of social and decision sciences at Carnegie Mellon University. Her research focuses on topics at the intersection between decision theory and health policy.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0324-PY6W.)

Vitamin C is a cure for the common cold. Bats are blind. Sugar makes children hyperactive.All of these statements are false. So why are they so pervasive? And why do they feel so true?In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at a phenomenon that can cause us to believe inaccurate information more than we should, and also lead us to trust reliable information less than we should.If you’re over a certain age, you might remember friends or family panicking about MSG, or monosodium glutamate, particularly in American Chinese food. But those health concerns stemmed from a single letter to the editor in The New England Journal of Medicine—and a media storm that repeated false information. Jennifer LeMesurier learned about this letter and set off on a journey to trace the origins of the MSG scare and find out why the myths about this ingredient are so persistent. Jennifer LeMesurier is an associate professor of writing and rhetoric at Colgate University and the author of Inscrutable Eating: Asian Appetites and the Rhetorics of Racial Consumption.Next, Katy speaks with Tali Sharot about her research on the illusory truth effect—the idea that people are more likely to believe and share repeated information, whether or not the information is accurate.You can learn more in the paper Tali co-authored, titled "The Illusory Truth Effect Leads to the Spread of Misinformation."Tali Sharot is a professor of cognitive neuroscience at University College London and an affiliated professor in MIT's Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences. Her most recent book, co-authored with Cass R. Sunstein, isLook Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Always There.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.​Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.​Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(0324-HG17) 

Curious what it would be like to walk in someone else's (work) shoes? Join New York Times bestselling author Dan Heath as he explores the world of work, one profession at a time, and interviews people who love what they do. What does a couples therapist think when a friend asks for relationship advice? What happens if a welder fails to wear safety glasses? What can get a stadium beer vendor fired? If you've ever met someone whose work you were curious about, and you had 100 nosy questions but were too polite to ask … well, this is the show for you.Dan Heath was the Season 1 host of Choiceology and is the co-author, along with his brother Chip, of four New York Times bestsellers: Decisive, Switch, Made to Stick, and The Power of Moments.  Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal. 1223-34A8

Filling out an overly complicated form or waiting on hold for hours to speak with a customer service rep is a frustrating experience. And sometimes it seems like the process itself is designed to be difficult.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how friction––time, distance, complexity, or anything that gets in the way of your goals—can contribute to what Nobel Prize–winning economist Richard Thaler calls "sludge." A young couple walks into a theme park and they are offered a gift card. The only catch is that they have to watch a 90-minute presentation about timeshares. By the end of the presentation, they are the owners of a timeshare in the timeshare capital of the world, Orlando, Florida. Getting into a timeshare contract was easy, but getting out of it turned out to be much more of a grind.Susan Budowski tells the story of how her clients got out of a sticky situation, and she explains how many companies make it simple and quick to buy a timeshare but difficult and time-consuming to sell or get out of those contracts.Susan Budowski is an attorney in Florida and Maryland who specializes in resolving timeshare matters.Next, Katy speaks with Wendy Wood about her research on how people can leverage friction to help build positive habits and diminish negative ones.You can read more in her book Good Habits, Bad Habits: The Science of Making Positive Changes That Stick.Wendy Wood is the Emerita Provost Professor of Psychology and Business at Dornsife College at the University of Southern California.Then, Katy speaks with Richard Thaler about how sludge makes it difficult for people to achieve their goals and discusses several ways we can fight sludge in public policy and in our everyday lives.Richard Thaler is a Nobel Prize–winning economist and Charles R. Walgreen Distinguished Service Professor of Behavioral Science and Economics at the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business. He is also the co-author of Nudge.If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.​Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.​Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(1023-39VT)

A train was speeding along the tracks in 19th-century England when a passenger suddenly started smashing windows and waving a pistol in the air. People believed his actions were caused by what was, at the time, a new and unfamiliar form of transportation. Doctors posited the rattling motion and noise of trains could cause passengers to act erratically, creating the short-lived but popular myth of "railway madness."In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how people often overreact to poor quality or incomplete information.A sudden explosion in 1889 ripped apart the USS Maine, the United States' largest warship at the time. The ship sank, killing more than half of the sailors on board. The Maine had been anchored in Cuba, and despite having little proof, the American public immediately blamed the Spanish for the sinking. Newspaper editors published headlines such as "Remember the Maine, to Hell with Spain!" Nearly a hundred years later, an underwater investigation would reveal what likely caused the explosion.Historian David Silbey recounts how public pressure from this tragedy pushed the United States to make a decision that would have lasting consequences for the world. David Silbey is a military historian and adjuncta professor and director of teaching and learning at Cornell University. He is also the author of A War of Frontier and Empire: The Philippine-American War, 1899-1902. His new book is called Wars Civil and Great: The American Experience in the Civil War and World War I. Next, Katy speaks with Ned Augenblick about his research that shows people's tendency to overreact to weakly supported information and underreact to strongly supported information. You can read more in the paper he co-authored with Eben Lazarus and Michael Thaler, called "Overinference from Weak Signals and Underinference from Strong Signals." Ned Augenblick is a professor in the Economic Analysis and Policy Group at the Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresThe comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.​Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.​Apple, the Apple logo, iPad, iPhone, and Apple Podcasts are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc.Google Podcasts and the Google Podcasts logo are trademarks of Google LLC.Spotify and the Spotify logo are registered trademarks of Spotify AB.(1023-3ZDX)  

It’s halftime at a basketball game. A kid nervously steps onto center court. If he can score a basket from center court, he’ll take home the prize money. He tells the announcer that he plays on his elementary school team and that he has been practicing for this moment. The crowd holds their breath as the ball sails through the air, hits the backboard … and goes in. The stadium erupts in excitement. Could he be the next Michael Jordan? In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how extraordinary performances can mislead people about future results.Sports Illustrated has featured some of the world’s fastest-rising stars and sporting talents since 1954. Getting on the cover was a career highlight for many and a milestone to greater things. But being featured on the cover also seemed to lead to misfortune. Many athletes suffered dramatic dips in performance after their cover was published. The phenomenon was dubbed the "Sports Illustrated cover jinx." It seemed that no one—from high school baseball prodigies to one of the greatest athletes of all time, Serena Williams, was safe. Former Sports Illustrated editor Albert Chen recounts some of the more memorable examples of athletes who fell victim to the jinx. Then he takes us behind the scenes at the magazine and reveals what he thinks is behind the curse.Albert Chen is a writer and podcaster and formerly a senior editor at Sports Illustrated. He's also the author of the book Billion Dollar Fantasy.Next, Katy speaks with Elizabeth Tipton, an expert on regression to the mean, about how outlying data points can hide the true measure of something.Elizabeth Tipton is an associate professor of statistics and data science at Northwestern University.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0923-30Z6)

Why do ocean waves move the way they do? How does a toaster work? How might ink flow through a ballpoint pen without the help of gravity? You may know the answer to these questions, but explaining them in detail could reveal an unexpected truth.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at why people think they understand things better than they actually do.The idea started at the dinner table. One of A.J. Jacobs’ kids presented him with a seemingly simple task—thank the people who made his cup of coffee. A.J. took this task to heart and ended up visiting dozens of complex operations around the world, running into surprises at each destination.A.J. Jacobs is a journalist, lecturer, and human guinea pig. He is the author of Thanks A Thousand: A Gratitude Journey, about his journey to better appreciate coffee.         Next, Katy speaks with Steven Sloman about his research on the illusion of explanatory depth—the idea that people think they have more knowledge than they do because it’s easy to mistake community knowledge for your own. You can read more in Steven and Philip Fernbach’s book, called The Knowledge Illusion: Why We Never Think Alone. Steven Sloman is a professor of cognitive, linguistic, and psychological sciences at Brown University. Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.Short selling is an advanced trading strategy involving potentially unlimited risks, and must be done in a margin account. Margin trading increases your level of market risk. For more information please refer to your account agreement and the Margin Risk Disclosure Statement.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0923-3X4J)

What is the difference between buying groceries for the whole week versus grabbing something to eat on the way home each day? Grouping choices together so that you make a bunch of selections all at once can seem daunting, but it can actually help you reach your goals faster.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how taking a bird's eye view on a series of selections can help create better results overall.Most sports teams take years to establish themselves as contenders. But sometimes, a brand-new team is able to use its inception—a one-time opportunity to build something up from scratch—to its advantage. Las Vegas finally got its first professional sports team in 2017 with an NHL team called the Golden Knights. The initial reaction to the team’s roster was muted at best. The players they chose were drafted from teams that did not want them. But a surprising playoff run in the team’s first year hinted at what was yet to come for the newcomers, dubbed the "Golden Misfits."Gary Lawless recounts the underdog story that shocked the hockey world.Gary Lawless is a hockey writer working for the 2023 Stanley Cup winners, the Vegas Golden Knights. He is also the author of Vegas Golden Knights 2023 Stanley Cup Champions Book: "It Hurts to Win."Next, Katy speaks with Erika Kirgios about research that shows how wider versus narrower choice "brackets" can affect selection decisions. You can read more in the paper Erika co-authored with Katy and others, called The Isolated Choice Effect and Its Implications for Gender Diversity in Organizations.Erika Kirgios is an assistant professor in the behavioral science department at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. Erika is a former PhD student of Katy's at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts.Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab. Data contained herein from third-party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.Investing involves risk including loss of principal.Diversification strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request. The book How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0823-3XFF)

Scientifically sound, randomized experiments can be expensive and difficult to run. But there’s an alternative: It turns out that certain real-life situations can also generate useful scientific data. The trick is finding them.In this episode of Choiceology with Katy Milkman, we look at how events outside of our control can create opportunities for so-called natural or accidental experiments. The organizers of a heroic airlift transporting thousands of Ethiopian Jews to Israel broke the record for the flight with the most passengers. It was 1994, and the clock was ticking for Israeli intelligence personnel and leaders of the Ethiopian Jewish community as they worked to transport as many people as possible before the civil war closed in on Addis Ababa. This desperate effort, dubbed Operation Solomon, would change the lives of the Ethiopian Jews in surprising and unintended ways. Stephen Spector is a professor of religions and culture and medieval English at Stony Brook University. He's also the author of Operation Solomon: The Daring Rescue of the Ethiopian Jews.Solomon Ezra is an active member of the Ethiopian and Jewish communities in Portland, Oregon, and was a ground operations leader during Operation Solomon. Donna Rosenthal is the author of The Israelis: Ordinary People in an Extraordinary Land.Next, Katy speaks with Steven Levitt about how to spot natural experiments and why they can provide such unique information about human behavior.Steven Levitt is the William B. Ogden Distinguished Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago, co-author of the bestselling book Freakonomics, and the host of a Freakonomics Radio podcast called People I Mostly Admire.Choiceology is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the series, visit schwab.com/podcast.If you enjoy the show, please leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating or review on Apple Podcasts. Important DisclosuresAll expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market conditions.The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.​Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable source. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed and Charles Schwab & Co. expressly disclaims any liability, including incidental or consequential damages, arising from errors or omissions in this publication. The policy analysis provided by the Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.All corporate names and market data shown above are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security. Supporting documentation for any claims or statistical information is available upon request.Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.The book, How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, is not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the book and makes no representations about its content.(0823-30U5)