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Code 3 - The Firefighters Podcast
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Code 3 - The Firefighters Podcast

Author: Scott Orr

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The podcast for and about firefighters, "Code 3" covers topics of interest to those in the fire service, in about 20 minutes, through interviews with those who know it best. From Chiefs to Probies, Engineers to Firefighters, and Paramedics to EMTs, award-winning journalist Scott Orr talks with them all.
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What’s potentially harder to locate victims in than a hoarder house?A stuffed-full self-storage locker.But that’s exactly what can happen. And even if the victim’s not inside at the time of the fire, their activities may have caused it.Those storage spaces are frequently climate-controlled, and they’re cheap…maybe $100 a month for a small one. That makes them seem like a great place to live for someone who can’t afford to rent an apartment.They aren’t, of course, and occupants who choose to try living in one can become the victim of a fire they can’t escape.This week, my guest tells us about his experiences with homeless people who tried to make a storage unit home…and regretted it.Tim Thompson is chief of the Georgetown, Kentucky Fire Department. He’s worked his way up over 19 years of service from firefighter to the boss. He’s also a member of the Kentucky Association of Fire Chiefs.
Are you ready for this?There’s a whole class of hazardous chemicals that can damage your hearing, and they’re by-products of your average structure fire.Yes, that’s right: When you burn home furnishings, you don’t just get carcinogens. You get “ototoxic” chemicals. Now, the PPE you wear routinely for firefighting protects against this.But—just like the stuff in smoke that causes cancer—ototoxic chemicals are a threat when you least expect them: during overhaul and even standing outside a burning structure.And when you combine exposure to ototoxins with screaming sirens and fireground noise, well, it’s no surprise that firefighters are often retiring with substantial hearing loss.Here to tell you what you need to know is Brian Daboul. He’s chief of the Mine Hill Fire Department in New Jersey. That’s a volunteer department, and Brian’s paid job is in occupational safety strategy and program development. He is also the owner of BGD Safety and Compliance, LLC, which serves industry and fire departments.
A recent study done at North Carolina State University took a look at PFAS chemicals used in turnout gear and came to some interesting conclusions.PFS layers are what give current turnout coats and pants their oil and water repellency.They're also a known carcinogen, so donning PPE made with PFAS is dangerous even before you step onto your engine or truck. Unfortunately, when the study looked at alternatives, it found that all oil repellents can also repel water, but all water repellents don’t necessarily repel oil. My guest on this show is Bryan Ormond, an assistant professor of textile engineering, chemistry and science at NC State. He also wrote up the results of the study.
Oneof the best ways to learn anything is by experience.Abetter way, though, is to learn from others’ experiences. That’swhy we’re talking with today’s guest—to get some insight from someone wholearned the hard way.CaptainJeremiah King has been with the Central Arizona Fire and Medical Authority formore than 20 years.Butthe story of this response takes place when he was about four years into his career.Andas you’ll hear, that career—not to mention, his life—nearly came to an end onenight on a structure fire in a large home.One of the best ways to learn anything is by experience.A better way, though, is to learn from others’ experiences. That’s why we’re talking with today’s guest—to get some insight from someone wholearned the hard way.Captain Jeremiah King has been with the Central Arizona Fire and Medical Authority formore than 20 years.But the story of this response takes place when he was about four years into his career.And as you’ll hear, that career—not to mention, his life—nearly came to an end onenight on a structure fire in a large home.
Anyone who has ever fought a wildland fire knows situational awareness is critical to safety and effectiveness on the fireground.But visibility, a key part of that awareness, is often limited by thick smoke in the wildland fire environment.Call it the fog of war, if you like.No matter what you call it, it’s tough to fight a fire when you can’t see through the smoke.That lack of visibility can lead to all kinds of trouble—especially vehicle accidents.Today, in this special edition of Code 3, we’ll explore one commercial product that can make the wildland environment safer for firefighters.It’s called Hypersight, built by RPX Technologies. It’s a tough, vehicle-mounted thermal imaging camera. It allows the crew in the cab to see through smoke as they drive.But it can show more than that, and as you’ll hear, it also has applications in urban firefighting settings.And joining me is Stan Cannata, to explain how the HyperSight system gives fire crews an advantage in dangerous situations.
The National Fire Protection Association seems like a pretty importantorganization. For example, Its reports are routinely used by fire departmentsto justify staffing requests.But not everyone is satisfied with how the NFPA operates. Some members of the fireservice believe the standards for equipment service life are too inflexible.And there’s the question of who writes the standards in the first place.One of the NFPA’s loudest critics on social media is Bobby Eckert. He’s aCaptain with the City of Camden Fire Department in New Jersey. Bobby also ownsand operates Eckert Fire Tactics.We decided to ask Bobby to explain his concerns about the NFPA. We initially asked the NFPA to participate in a debate-style format with Bobby,but they declined the offer. Instead, they offered a representative who woulddo a one-on-one interview. We agreed to that, and I was able to ask questions of the NFPA’s Responder TechnicalLead, Curt Floyd. Then we matched up Curt’s answers with Bobby’s questions.
If you’ve ever known a firefighter who committed suicide, you know how it can change your life.It may have come as a complete surprise to you. Or maybe you had been worried about the firefighter’s state of mind.There’s been a lot said and written about what we can do for ourselves to prevent suicide.But today, we’re going to talk about a program designed to help you intervene in another firefighter’s emotional crisis before it becomes a fatal one.It's called “Small Bites.” Because that’s how you fix an elephant-size problem…one small bite at a time.The program was developed by Sheena Glover. She is a captain with the Omaha, Nebraska Fire Department. She’s a 15-year veteran and holds several specialty ratings. Sheena is just the fourth Black female in the history of the department.
Friday, June 30, 2023, is the 10th anniversary of the deaths of 19 wildland firefighters in Arizona.They were hotshots, the kind of people who really do fight fire with fire. Led by a consummate professional, the team made a move that no one expected and no one can explain.That move caused the deaths of the entire crew except for a lookout, who was stationed some distance away.To help me tell their story today, I’ve enlisted the help of Todd Able. He’s a battalion chief with the Central Arizona Fire and Medical Authority. He is also an experienced Type I Operations Section Chief for wildland fires. And that’s where he was assigned on the Yarnell Hill fire.
It’s getting hotter outside, and that traditionally signals the start of wildland fire season in the U.S.Nowadays, of course, there’s no real “season” when wildland fires burn. The season can be all year long in some parts of the country.We won’t argue about the reasons why—suffice it to say, wildland fires are growing bigger and more frequent than in the past.And, as residents of the northeast U.S. can attest, they are starting to burn in less fire-prone regions.With that in mind, and considering that this month is the 10th anniversary of the loss of the Granite Mountain Hotshots in Arizona, we’re talking wildland fires.This time, it’s a sort of primer on decision-making for those fighting fires in the backcountry. And some lessons learned from a guest who’s familiar to those who have listened to Code 3 for a while.Chad Costa is Assistant Fire Chief for the city of Petaluma, California. He’s had 24 years of experience working in both urban and wildland firefighting environments. That includes time at Cal Fire and as an Operations Branch Director for California Interagency Team 1.
How fit are you?If you’re newer to the fire service, say two or three years in, you’re probably still in reasonably good shape. After all, you had to meet minimum standards at the fire academy.But unless you’ve kept up with the physical fitness regimen, you may be getting a little soft around the middle.Or losing endurance.My guest today says it’s time to do something about that.Aaron Zamzow is a firefighter/training officer at the Madison, Wisconsin, Fire Department. He has 20 years of experience as a fitness trainer, for athletes and others. He created Fire Rescue Fitness and lectures everywhere. And he has a podcast, too, called Better Every Shift, on FireRescue1.com
On this episode, we’re talking with Phil Jose, the expert on reading smoke.As you may know—and as Phil likes to remind us—smoke is fuel.In most cases, it’s just waiting for the right conditions to ignite.We’ll discuss how to keep that from happening. Also on the agenda is a little talk about the relative merits of vertical ventilation. When do you go to the roof and start opening it up? It’s all about coordination.And finally, we’ll talk about when it’s time to change how things are done on your fireground.Sounds interesting, doesn’t it?Phil Jose retired from Seattle Fire Department as the Deputy Chief of Operations/Shift Commander after 31 years of service. He’s had the opportunity to work in the training division as a Lieutenant, Captain, and Deputy Chief. Phil is a popular seminar speaker around the country, a published author, and he also runs Ignition Point Training.
We’ve talked several times on this show about PTSD and its effects on firefighters. It’s a serious problem, one that affects nearly 40 percent of first responders.On this edition of Code 3, we’re going to talk about a documentary available on YouTube that brings the problem home in a very impactful way.It's titled, “The Call We Carry: Confronting PTSD in the Fire Service.” It’s quite a good documentary, packing a lot into just over an hour of screen time, and winning some prestigious film festival awards.The film was produced and directed by firefighter-paramedic Cody Shea. He’s been with the Tacoma, Washington Fire Department since 2018.
This week, we’re going to make some people angry.We’re talking structure fires, risk, and SLICE-RS.If you’re a probie, that’s an acronym for Size-up, Locate the fire, Isolate the flow path, Cool from a safe distance, Extinguish, Rescue and Salvage at any time in the process.Today’s guest says that, by following those steps in that order, you’ll have a less risky fireground.But what about those who advocate for RECEO-VS? That’s Rescue, Exposure, Confine, Extinguish, Overhaul and Ventilate, Salvage.That puts “rescue” first, which, while it may not be as safe for the firefighter, suggests that saving lives is the priority in a structure fire.But can using SLICE-RS result in more lives saved? How is that possible?I’ll ask that of Robert Avsec.He retired as a Battalion Chief with the Chesterfield, Virginia Fire & EMS Department after 26 years of service. He’s instructed fire, EMS and hazardous materials courses at the local, state and federal levels, including 10 years with the National Fire Academy. He writes a blog and is a published author.
Today’s subject may make you uncomfortable. If it does, that’s not a bad thing—so stick with me. You could save your own career.I am talking about harassment in the fire service, both sexual harassment and other types.Now, look, you know and I know that it goes on. And you know and I know that there have been so-called “sensitivity training” seminars. We also know that they usually aren't well received. Go ahead, admit it. You snickered—or groaned—the last time word came down that there was one you had to attend.And by the way, if your department or house doesn't have these problems, that’s great. But it doesn’t mean they’ve been extinguished. Harassment still goes on.My guest on this edition knows all that, too. She’s here to talk about how strong leadership can help eliminate it.Linda Willing is one of our favorite returning guests here on Code 3.She’s a retired career fire officer from the Boulder, Colorado Fire Department, who consults with emergency services agencies and other companies through her company, RealWorld Training and Consulting. She’s also a published author and instructs at the National Fire Academy.
The fire service is often called a brotherhood…or a sisterhood, these days. But how strong is that bond, really? One of the best places to see the strength of the brotherhood in action is when tragedy occurs. A mayday call on the fireground results in heroic efforts…and, if those efforts should fail…then the observances for a line-of-duty-death are truly heartwarming.But what about the rest of the time? When things are routine, how’s your family doing?My guest today says the brotherhood these days may need some work. John Cuomo has nearly three decades in the fire service. He’s worked just about every position you can have in the job. He also served as pension representative for a police and firefighter pension fund for 10 years.He's also written a book, titled "Leadership Refined by Fire".
There’s a lot of talk in the fire service about the culture. It’s important, which you already know. It’s even celebrated in many cities.But one thing that’s more dependent on the culture of your department than you might think is recruiting.This is especially important if you need to recruit volunteers.Luckily, it’s possible to build the culture you want to see, if you address the issue specifically.My guest today has some ideas on teambuilding by developing a positive culture. Jason Caughey is the fire chief at Laramie County Fire District #2 in Cheyenne, Wyoming. He’s also been the fire chief of Gore Hill Fire Rescue in Great Falls, Montana.
Large-city fire departments with multiple PIOs have been showcasing their activities on social media for some time. If you have enough people, it’s no problem.But what if you want to try to engage the community without those resources?Social media can be a direct link with the customers your department serves, so it’s a no-brainer that you’d like to be all over Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, and all the others. Even podcasts.Not to mention that your message can be sent the way you want—not filtered through the editors and reporters of your local news providers.How do you do it?My two guests today come from the Central Arizona Fire and Medical Authority, or CAFMA. It’s medium-small career department, covering several small cities and a lot of rural area, populated by about 106,000 residents. They do it with 10 full-time stations and 2 reserve stations.And NO full-time PIO. et CAFMA’s social media program is impressive. And I’m saying this as someone who has seen the Los Angeles City Fire Department’s social media program at work.My guests today are here to explain how they do it.We're talking with CAFMA Chief Scott Freitag, an old friend of Code 3, and Kathy Goodman, Scott’s Community Relations Coordinator, who is the driving force behind this social media campaign.
Just about every area served by fire departments includes a large warehouse or two. If you drive by it, I am sure you wonder how well your department would deal with a fire inside it.But in the last few years, truly massive warehouses have started to appear. These monsters aren’t measured in square feet, they're measured in acres of land covered.If anything—from a fire to a natural disaster—brings you to one of them, your department may well be unable to deal with the situation.That’s why today’s guest says you must prepare well in advance for a mega-warehouse fire.Steve Lohr is the fire chief in Hagerstown, Maryland. In 2014, he retired as chief of the Montgomery County, Maryland Fire-Rescue Department after a 30-year career.
Earlier this month, about 400 members of the fire service-from more than 20 states—got together for the Phoenix Firefighters Symposium.They were gathered to hear about Mrs. Smith.Back in 1996, Chief Brunacini—Bruno, to his friends—came up with the idea of Mrs. Smith. She represents why the fire service exists—she’s the first priority for firefighters, the customer they serve. She stands for all the people who call for any kind of help from the fire department.Bruno left us in 2017, but Mrs. Smith remains as his legacy, with her influence growing. As each class of recruits is taught to remember her, and more members of other departments hear about what she stands for, they carry the message of customer service nationwide.So what was the big deal about this two-day event? It was-and is—about just what the Symposium’s slogan says: Taking Care of Mrs. Smith.
If you do enough training evolutions, you will inevitably come up against a trick scenario.You know, the ones where the instructors design something totally implausible into the scenario.They usually fool the firefighters doing the training…and then that allows the instructor to say something that seems wise.Like, “expect the unexpected.”Sometimes, they’ll simply judge a specific thing with undue emphasis. Like always using a stopwatch, no matter the circumstances.Why shouldn’t instructors use these kinds of tactics? Today’s guest explains what can happen when they do. And why they don’t end up with the real-world results the trainers want to see.Doug Cupp is the fire chief at the Greater Eagle Fire Protection District in Colorado. His company, Doug Cupp and Associates, delivers courses based on his research on critical decision-making, leading to crisis and human error. Doug holds a master’s degree in Emergency Management and Fire and Emergency Services Management.
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