Community Pulse

In this episode, Wesley, PJ, and Jason take the opportunity to talk about a new phenomenon - The DevRel Foundation from the Linux Foundation. Learn how folks have gotten involved, what the Foundation intends to do, and how you can share your voice. Topics Discussed: Introduction to the DevRel Foundation: The episode explores the new DevRel Foundation, an initiative under the Linux Foundation, created to address challenges in Developer Relations (DevRel). Wesley Faulkner introduces the foundation, noting that its purpose is to be a nonpartisan hub for discussions about DevRel and to provide resources for defining the profession and its practices. Foundational Goals: The DevRel Foundation aims to address key challenges within DevRel, including defining the role, measuring its impact, and rolling out successful DevRel programs. It seeks to aggregate existing knowledge and create a space for new insights. Wesley discusses his role in the steering committee and mentions the ongoing process of recruiting champions for various topics within DevRel to drive these discussions forward. Open Participation and Community Engagement: The foundation is described as a participative effort, where everyone from managers to community members can contribute. This is highlighted as an important distinction from more passive feedback mechanisms (like town halls). Wesley outlines the process, emphasizing that the foundation is open to diverse perspectives, and all contributions will be available for collaboration through platforms like GitHub and Discord. Challenges of Defining DevRel: A major challenge discussed is the diversity of how DevRel is implemented across different organizations (e.g., startups, enterprises, nonprofits). Wesley talks about the need for an inclusive approach that doesn’t exclude any perspectives while ensuring practical outcomes. Jason Hand asks about how the foundation plans to handle these varied implementations, suggesting that a “one-size-fits-all” approach may not work. The Role of the Linux Foundation: The Linux Foundation’s role is explained as crucial in providing structure, governance, and logistical support for the foundation. The Linux Foundation's history with supporting open-source projects and fostering community-driven initiatives is seen as a key advantage. Real-World Impact and Job Descriptions: Jason Hand discusses the problem of inconsistent DevRel job descriptions in the industry, which often blur the lines between roles like developer advocate, customer success, and sales engineering. The foundation’s work could help standardize expectations for DevRel roles across organizations. The episode touches on how a clearer definition of DevRel could assist job seekers and hiring managers in aligning roles more effectively. Future of the DevRel Foundation: The foundation is still in its early stages, and Wesley emphasizes that while there’s hope for the project, it will take time to make significant progress. They encourage participation in calls, Discord, and GitHub to stay updated and contribute. Key Takeaways: - The DevRel Foundation seeks to unify and provide structure to the diverse, evolving field of Developer Relations. Inclusive participation is at the core of the foundation's mission, aiming to gather input from all sectors of the community. - The foundation is driven by volunteer work and community passion, with the support of the Linux Foundation's structure and resources. - GitHub and Discord are key platforms for collaboration, ensuring that community voices are heard and that contributions are open for review and iteration. - The foundation’s work will eventually help provide clarity in DevRel role definitions, benefiting both organizations and professionals in the field. Action Items: - Join the DevRel Foundation: Individuals can join calls, participate in discussions, or contribute to the work via GitHub and Discord. - Become a Champion: The foundation is actively seeking managers to lead specific topics within DevRel. - Stay Informed: Engage with the monthly updates and open calls to follow the foundation’s progress. Key Words and Themes: DevRel Foundation Developer Relations (DevRel) Linux Foundation Open Participation Inclusive Governance Community-Driven Initiatives Job Descriptions in DevRel GitHub and Discord Collaboration Nonprofit Organization Volunteer-Driven Transcript [00:00:00] PJ Haggerty: Hey everybody. And welcome to another episode of Community Pulse. We're super excited to have you. [00:00:04] PJ Haggerty: This week we decided we would take a look at a new phenomenon, the DevRel Foundation, the Developer Relations Foundation from our friends at the Linux Foundation. [00:00:12] PJ Haggerty: Some of you are probably already aware of it. Some of you are probably in the discord chat. Some people might not know about it at all. So we want to take this opportunity to share some information about it and see what we could find out and how we felt about it. So with that, I am joined by, of course, Jason Hand and Wesley Faulkner. Wesley, you've been doing a lot of work with the DevRel foundation as far as like looking at, working models and how people can actually get things done within the foundation. [00:00:37] PJ Haggerty: So do you want to kick us off and give us a description of what's going on? [00:00:41] Wesley Faulkner: Yes. Let me lay a little bit of the groundwork to understand my involvement and how. So I'm part of the steering committee. There's five of us in total. And I am the newest member of that five person steering committee. [00:00:55] Wesley Faulkner: I've been part of the DevRel foundation since June of this year. [00:01:00] And the foundations, the start of it had, I think, started way before that even before the beginning of the year. And the involvement with the Linux foundation happens like I think in around the February timeframe. And so the thought is that there are Certain types of challenges that are unique to people in dev rel defining what we do is one of them that I think is something that people are familiar with, but others that have been lingering around about how do you measure dev rel and like adequately, like, how do you plan for the future and how do you roll out a developer relations program? [00:01:35] Wesley Faulkner: Those are like the broad strokes of it. So the thought of the Dev Rel foundation is to be a nonpartisan home for these types of discussions. And we are currently set up as the steering committee, as people who are trying to facilitate those conversations, give structure and processing of what timeline we should have these conversations and be helped, like [00:02:00] with the being a home to people to find this, Information once we have it all created and to be a repository for a lot of existing knowledge, but also allow the connection tissue to create new knowledge that is not there right now. [00:02:16] Wesley Faulkner: So that's like the whole arc of it. Depending on when you're listening to this podcast, we are currently enrolling people to take on and champion these specific areas of topics. Here are the lists that we've aggregated from the community of the challenges. [00:02:33] Wesley Faulkner: And we're looking for managers to say I want to champion that and run it to ground to make sure that we actually have things defined to help us all as dev or all practitioners. [00:02:43] PJ Haggerty: And I want to zero in because I think that some people I was in the initial meeting kickoff thing that happened back in June and there was a concern and it was oh, this is a town hall, not really a feedback thing, but more of a town hall where we'll come and tell you what we think is [00:03:00] good and you can come and tell us if you don't think it's good. [00:03:03] PJ Haggerty: But what it really is is a participative activity. Not everybody wants to, and that's okay. But the idea is really behind let's put together a compendium of knowledge about what we do and put that so that when people reference it, they can easily say, this is the way it works. [00:03:22] PJ Haggerty: It's a constantly moving organic body. It's similar to software. There is nothing done on this. Would that, do you think that's accurate? Great. [00:03:31] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, I think that initially I was on that initial feedback preview call as well. And that session, I think, raised a lot of awareness about how developed the thought was of where things were going to go and how open to input. [00:03:47] Wesley Faulkner: The foundation was to the community and letting the community shape the direction and the focus of the foundation. And I think to its credit, the foundation has taken a lot of that into heart. [00:04:00] And I think that's when I joined actually because of that call or after that call. A lot of the work that I've done, at least on the initial side, was finding a way to make sure that the community's voice is heard. [00:04:12] Wesley Faulkner: And then once we get all of this feedback, how do we actually act on it? Because it feels like if you think about the possibilities, the developer relations, there's just so much out there. How do we choose which ones that we're going to help move forward? And I devised or helped with the rest of the people in the steering committee and other feedback. [00:04:31] Wesley Faulkner: From people like you, PJ, about how we address the needs of the community in a way that doesn't feel exclusionary. [00:04:39] PJ Haggerty: Think exclusionary is the word you're looking for. Yeah. [00:04:40] Wesley Faulkner: And also how do we actually be productive to actually move forward instead of having constant discussions all the time and where do we actually make sure that it was the right time to do action? [00:04:52] Jason Hand: Wesley, I got a question. I feel like a lot of our episodes, we generally take a stance on [00:05:00] when it comes to implementing certain things that it just depends on the s

It comes as no surprise that something in the hiring of Developer Relations practitioners has become a mystery box of confusion. No standard path to follow, interviews ranging all over the map, homework assignments that go nowhere, and most conversations leading to few actual opportunities. Topics Discussed: Introduction to the Issue of Hiring in DevRel: The episode addresses the ongoing challenges in hiring for Developer Relations (DevRel), with a focus on the unique issues facing professionals in this field. Wesley Faulkner kicks off the discussion, sharing his personal experience of job hunting and highlighting several systemic issues within the hiring process for DevRel roles. Key Problems with Hiring in DevRel: PJ Haggerty highlights the broken nature of DevRel hiring, emphasizing: - Keyword-based filtering in job applications, which often misses qualified candidates. - A mismatch in expectations for the role, as companies frequently confuse DevRel with marketing, pre-sales, or customer success. - The flood of inexperienced applicants who may be interested in DevRel but lack the necessary technical or industry experience. Jason Hand adds that the mismatch between job descriptions and the actual needs of companies is another key issue, as job seekers often face unrealistic expectations (e.g., hiring for a "unicorn" candidate). Additionally, salary mismatches are discussed, where companies expect highly experienced candidates but offer entry-level compensation. Challenges with Job Descriptions and Expectations: Wesley Faulkner points out that DevRel is often not properly listed as a category in job boards or applicant tracking systems (ATS), leading to candidates being overlooked or categorized incorrectly. The language around DevRel roles varies significantly across industries, and this results in job descriptions being vague or overly broad, making it difficult for potential candidates to identify if the job aligns with their skills. Hiring Managers' Lack of DevRel Expertise: Even people within DevRel leadership positions (e.g., Directors or VPs of DevRel) often lack a broad perspective of how DevRel functions across different companies, leading to myopic decision-making during the interview process. The Role of Recruiters and Automation in the Hiring Process: The episode dives into how AI and automation are increasingly used in the hiring process, but Wesley notes that the vast array of DevRel-related tasks (e.g., social media, technical documentation, community engagement) makes it difficult to define clear keywords for candidates. Jason Hand discusses how recruiters who lack a deep understanding of DevRel can exacerbate the problem, often overlooking candidates who don't fit the narrow criteria set by automated systems, while also failing to match candidates with roles that align with their skills. The Myth of the “DevRel Influencer” and Burnout: The conversation shifts to the misconception that DevRel professionals should be “influencers” with large social media followings. This unrealistic expectation, especially from startups or new companies, distorts the role of DevRel and damages the overall hiring landscape. Wesley Faulkner also discusses how burnout is common in DevRel roles due to unrealistic expectations and the volatile nature of the profession, where individuals often jump between short-term roles due to a lack of clear objectives or proper resourcing. Job Hopping in DevRel: The issue of job hopping is discussed, with Jason Hand and PJ Haggerty pointing out that the DevRel space has a high turnover rate, often due to factors like burnout, misaligned expectations, and lack of investment in the role by employers. Wesley Faulkner links job hopping to the failure of organizations to resource and value DevRel properly, causing professionals to leave quickly for better opportunities. Solutions and Hope for the Future: PJ Haggerty concludes the conversation by noting that despite the frustration, there is hope for the future of DevRel hiring. He points out that as more documentation and resources (e.g., from initiatives like the DevRel Foundation) emerge, organizations will gain a better understanding of the value DevRel brings. They also stress the importance of clarity in job descriptions and education for recruiters about the true nature of DevRel roles. Key Takeaways: - DevRel hiring is broken, with issues including keyword filtering, unclear job descriptions, unrealistic expectations, and mismatched compensation. - Recruiters often lack understanding of what DevRel professionals actually do, leading to poor hiring outcomes. - Burnout and job hopping are prevalent in DevRel due to unrealistic expectations and lack of proper support from organizations. - Clearer definitions of DevRel and better alignment between hiring needs and candidate expectations are essential for improving the situation. - The DevRel Foundation and other educational resources offer hope for improving how DevRel is defined and valued within organizations. Action Items: - Recruiters and Hiring Managers: Educate themselves about the full scope of DevRel roles and ensure job descriptions accurately reflect the true nature of the work. - DevRel Professionals: Be prepared to answer questions about the specific value you bring to an organization and ensure the role aligns with your skills and expectations. - DevRel Community: Contribute to resources like the DevRel Foundation to help shape better industry standards for hiring and defining DevRel roles. Key Words and Themes: DevRel Hiring Keyword Filtering Job Descriptions Salary Mismatch DevRel Influencer Myth Burnout Job Hopping Recruiter Education DevRel Foundation Automation in Hiring Unrealistic Expectations Role Clarity Transcript [00:00:00] Wesley Faulkner: Welcome back to the Community Pulse. My name is Wesley Faulkner. And today we are bringing in a subject matter. That's near and dear to my heart. And this is hiring in DevRel as a person who's currently looking for a new role. I've seen things that I haven't seen before since the last time I was on the job hub. [00:00:16] Wesley Faulkner: To start this topic, we have Jason Hand and PJ Haggerty here with me for us to have this kind of impromptu conversation to dive deep into the subject and I'll kick us off with the first question. What do you think is broken with DevRel hiring? And we'll start with you, PJ. [00:00:33] PJ Haggerty: I almost want to answer, not flippantly, but seriously, what isn't broken with DevRel hiring? [00:00:40] PJ Haggerty: I feel like that's a shorter list. I think that there's a few things that are wrong. One of the things that I think is a general tech issue is that the filtering and distilling of appropriate people and resumes is based on keyword searches and some SEO and maybe some AI magic in [00:01:00] the background. [00:01:00] PJ Haggerty: That's causing people that are completely valid candidates to get booted out of situations. The evolution of DevRel and what that means is becoming a huge factor because I think a lot of people are thinking that it means I get an extra marketer or I get someone who does pre sales or, like we're still fighting this constant battle of defining DevRel. [00:01:19] PJ Haggerty: And I know we talked a little bit in the last episode about DevRel maturity, but I still think that a vast majority of our jobs revolve around explaining what we do. And then you just add to that the glut of people who want to be in DevRel versus the hyper minority of people who are actually experienced in the job. [00:01:39] PJ Haggerty: But because there's so many people there's a big signal to noise ratio issue. A lot of people want to do this. But the actual signal, the people who are qualified, the people who are experienced, the people who can do it is a very limited number of people. And I think all of those things contribute to the currently horrible, frankly, horrible situation in hiring [00:02:00] endeavor. [00:02:00] PJ Haggerty: And I know that. Wesley, you're going through it right now. I think a lot of our listeners know I just finished going through it a few months ago, and it was like a 7 month slog of absolutely nightmarish hiring practice. [00:02:11] PJ Haggerty: What do you got, Jay? [00:02:15] Jason Hand: What I got was that, I agree with all of that. And as somebody who was laid off a little over a year ago, spent a good amount of time and energy into the whole process of submitting resumes and going through rounds and rounds of interviews and also doing that while injured, it was not a great experience. [00:02:35] Jason Hand: So I empathize with everybody who's been through a layoff-like situation. Because it is, it's traumatic. And to find them for myself, a place that has been a good landing and a good, just opportunity for me has, I think I've helped, I've seen the full arc, basically. For being super in a low place and then suddenly feeling like, you've returned to what you did [00:03:00] previously and landed on your feet. [00:03:01] Jason Hand: So it's a scary thing in general. And right now from a lot of the folks that I'm close to, Wesley being one, PJ being one there's several others in the industry and the community that I am real close friends with that have also recently been laid off. I feel like a broken record reaching out to everybody and like offering support and saying, I'm going to forward everything I get to you. [00:03:26] Jason Hand: Because one of the things that I guess for me to point out as what's broken or things that I think are broken is I know a lot of people who are looking, but I also know of a lot of roles that are open. If you could just put a finger on what's broken, we can't fill the roles. [00:03:42] Jason Hand: And some of them are there, some of them have changed some of them. Like I think PJ really pointed out a really big problem is there's a mismatch on expectations of what somebody who is a DevRel professional does.

Recently, the topic of DevRel maturity sparked a conversation: What qualities define a mature community and a seasoned team? Join PJ, Jason, Mary, and Wesley as they share their insights on past experiences, current trends shaping the field, and key indicators to monitor as you strive to build a thriving, successful community. Topics Discussed: Introduction to the Concept of Maturity in DevRel and Community Programs: Mary Thengvall introduces the topic of maturity in community programs, DevRel teams, and broader community growth, asking the co-hosts for their views on what it means for a program or team to be “mature.” The discussion explores maturity from different perspectives: internal community management, external community engagement, and the use of data in measuring maturity. The Definition of Maturity: PJ Haggerty argues that the term “mature” is often used ambiguously, similar to how the word "enterprise" is applied. He suggests that DevRel programs may be mistakenly seen as mature just by having a larger team, but he disagrees with this simplistic view. Wesley Faulkner offers multiple angles for assessing maturity: Internal maturity: Does the company have seasoned community managers, strong goals, clear expectations, and good internal collaboration across departments? External maturity: Does the community have a consistent base of returning members, active engagement, and is it large enough to support initiatives like ambassador programs or moderator roles? Scalability: A mature community allows for growth, enabling more opportunities for collaboration, feedback, and scaling programs effectively. Maturity in the Context of Company History: Mary Thengvall reflects on the significant data her company, Kamunda, has accumulated since 2013. She points out that while having 11 years of data seems like a huge advantage, it only becomes truly valuable if it is actionable. She emphasizes that being able to use data to make decisions is a key sign of a mature program. Jason Hand stresses that merely collecting data without acting on it is a waste, and processes need to be built around data to drive positive outcomes. He highlights that having a clear vision and goals is integral to creating a mature team and community. Challenges in Community Maturity: PJ Haggerty contrasts the maturity of external communities. He shares his experience with the Ruby and Rails community, which was once immature but matured as the open-source community grew. The challenge is that a community’s maturity cannot exist in isolation — it depends on the external community's growth alongside the internal team’s development. The maturity of community data also plays a critical role. Mary Thengvall questions whether it is possible to continue calling a community mature if much of its active base has shifted or churned due to evolving products or other factors. Evaluating and Using Data: The episode explores the effectiveness of metrics used to evaluate community programs. PJ Haggerty criticizes Net Promoter Score (NPS) as outdated and unreliable, especially in the current context where personal interactions (such as with a developer advocate) might skew the score. Wesley Faulkner discusses how metrics can be “Uberfied,” meaning that overly simplistic metrics like star ratings may not accurately reflect the quality of engagement within a community. Mary Thengvall discusses the importance of understanding the purpose behind collecting metrics. Are metrics gathered for the sake of collection, or do they inform decisions about program improvements? The Evolution of Community Programs: Jason Hand emphasizes that community maturity is a moving target. Teams and priorities evolve, and practices that were considered best practices a few years ago may no longer hold true. Maturity is not a one-time achievement but a continuous process of adaptation. Mary Thengvall adds that there’s a difference between having a mature program that runs smoothly with minimal manual effort and the early-stage iterative phase that is often more experimental and adaptable. Impact of External Growth and Organizational Expectations: Jason Hand asks whether the maturity of a community is driven by organizational expectations or if a mature community is the result of consistent iteration and learning over time. Mary Thengvall shares that her own career trajectory is impacted by the maturity of her team and program. She reflects on the challenge of finding new ways to innovate when things feel “settled” and running smoothly, highlighting the balance between growth and stability. Key Takeaways: - Maturity in DevRel and community programs is a multi-faceted concept involving internal team development, external community engagement, and the use of data to inform decisions. - A mature community program requires both internal synergy within the company and active, engaged community members outside the organization. - Data is crucial for maturity, but it must be actionable. Collecting metrics without using them for decision-making does not lead to growth. - Maturity is an ongoing process, and what was once considered mature can quickly become outdated. Continuous iteration and adapting to new challenges is key. - The maturity of external communities and their relationship with the internal team play a major role in the overall success and scalability of community programs. Action Items: - Community Managers: Evaluate the maturity of your program from internal and external perspectives. Are you actively engaging your community? Are internal stakeholders aligned with the value of community? - DevRel Teams: Focus on making your community scalable by creating processes that support growth and enable external members to contribute meaningfully. - Organizations: Use data-driven decision-making but ensure that the data you collect is relevant and leads to actionable outcomes. Revisit your metrics and evaluate whether they are still valid and useful. - Leaders in DevRel: Consider how community maturity affects the growth of your program. Are you in the iterative stage, or are you moving toward a more stable, self-sustaining model? Key Words and Themes: Community Maturity Data and Metrics External Community Engagement Internal Team Collaboration Mature DevRel Program Scalability Iterative vs. Mature Programs Actionable Data Continuous Evolution Best Practices Net Promoter Score (NPS) Criticism Uberfication of Metrics Transcript [00:00:13] Mary Thengvall: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Community Pulse. I'm Mary Thengvall, and I brought up this topic to the team recently as something that I've been curious about and thinking a little bit more about. [00:00:26] Mary Thengvall: And I'd love to get everybody's opinion on it. So the idea of the maturity of community programs or the maturity of. A community or the maturity of a team and trying to figure out what actually is that definition of mature in those different examples? What makes a program mature? What makes a team mature? [00:00:50] Mary Thengvall: What can be done as a result of having a more mature program or DevRel team? And I'd love to get everybody's opinions on it. [00:01:00] [00:01:00] PJ Haggerty: I think if I could weigh in for a second, I think that one of the interesting things here is the word you mentioned, the word mature. Like 17 times which is good, but I also feel like maturity is in some ways similar to when we, when tech companies use the word enterprise, what does that mean? [00:01:15] PJ Haggerty: It can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And a lot of, in a lot of cases, I think that maturity, when we look at like a DevRel team is. skewed. [00:01:27] PJ Haggerty: I don't think that's the same metric as. I've never seen a DevRel team that says, okay, so we have junior DevRel and mid level DevRel, senior DevRel, product managers, and communication is managed by this other part of the team. I think most people are basically saying a DevRel program is mature, if There's more than one person. [00:01:49] Mary Thengvall: Really? [00:01:49] PJ Haggerty: I think external people who view DevRel say there's more than one person. Clearly we have a mature DevRel program. I disagree with that, but I think it's a thing. [00:02:00] [00:02:00] Wesley Faulkner: In terms of community and a mature community, I think of it in multiple facets and you can pick which one. [00:02:06] Wesley Faulkner: Resonates with your initial thought, Mary, is that there's a maturity in terms of when you're creating a community, there's a lot of, let's figure this out, like how we're going to run this, let's build up the playbooks. Let's build in the process, let's build in the connections internally. [00:02:21] Wesley Faulkner: Oh, a base of maturity. Another way of looking at it is from the people who are involved internally in community. Do you have a seasoned community manager? Do you have strong enough goals? And clear expectations. Do you have a good relationship with the other departments to make sure that the collaboration there, that everyone sees the investment in community and the value of community where basically you have an internal synergy where people understand community is part of the process [00:02:54] Wesley Faulkner: so where the community in a company grows to the point where it's the whole [00:03:00] company understands. That we are a community. And this is important to us. [00:03:04] Mary Thengvall: And then [00:03:04] Wesley Faulkner: The third option for the community when I think about it is the external view of the community. Do you have members who keep coming back? Do you have people who are participatory in either surveys or type of feedback sessions in which they are contributing not only back to the company, but they have a That are horizontal to other members of the community where they feel like that relationship has been built up. [00:03:32] Wesley Faulkner: Anoth

In this episode of After Pulse, Jason Hand and Wesley Faulkner reflect on the challenges and evolution of community conferences, especially in the aftermath of COVID-19. The conversation revolves around the changing landscape of these events, including financial, logistical, and cultural shifts. Jason opens the discussion by expressing how the podcast’s previous episode, where they talked to guests Matty Stratton and Mo McElaney about community events, raised more questions than answers. He notes that while conferences were once easier to organize with ample sponsorship funds, the landscape has shifted significantly, especially with the impact of COVID. He recalls the immense effort that went into organizing DevOpsDays Rockies, including the burnout he and other organizers faced, and reflects on the need for a change in how such events are structured. Wesley acknowledges the high cost of attending conferences, noting that ticket prices have increased significantly over the years, along with attendees' higher expectations. He highlights how, in the past, attendees were satisfied with simpler events, but today, conferences are expected to provide extras like swag, high-quality food, and receptions. These heightened expectations, combined with the rising costs, make it harder for community-run events to maintain their appeal. Wesley suggests that perhaps a "refactor" of the conference model is needed—one that focuses more on community involvement and less on corporate sponsorship, emphasizing the need for more volunteer-driven, scrappy events. Jason points out that the growth of events like DevOpsDays Rockies in the past decade led to increasingly large venues and more extravagant setups to meet the growing demand. However, after COVID, things have shifted towards smaller, more intimate gatherings, with some events being canceled or rescheduled due to various reasons. He expresses hope that these smaller gatherings, like the Wild Spaces initiative in Denver, will serve as a creative alternative to the traditional conference model, focusing on connecting people in less formal settings. Jason imagines a future where people gather in parks with simple tools like whiteboards, without the need for elaborate setups, to foster a more organic exchange of ideas. Wesley also discusses the maturation of the DevOps space, suggesting that many of the core problems have already been solved, leaving less room for groundbreaking discussions. This has led to a sense of stagnation, with community members having "graduated" beyond the need for typical conference content. He believes there is a need for events that focus on high-quality content and true knowledge sharing, rather than just drawing large crowds with celebrity speakers. Further into the conversation, Wesley addresses the difficulty in finding the right community events to sponsor or participate in. He notes that, unlike large corporate conferences, community events tend to be fragmented, and it's hard for potential sponsors to find events that fit their needs. He highlights the lack of a central entity that could streamline the process of finding and funding these events, making it difficult for smaller events to compete with the larger, corporate-driven ones. Finally, Jason and Wesley discuss the possibility of a future shift where community events become more personal and focused on deep, meaningful exchanges, rather than simply being large-scale spectacles. Jason admits that he misses the community aspect but also feels relieved to step away from the burnout of large-scale event organization. Both hosts agree that there’s hope for the future of community events, but they must evolve creatively to stay relevant and sustainable. Keywords: Community Conferences Post-COVID Challenges Sponsorship Ticket Costs Volunteer-Driven Events Event Sustainability Burnout Reimagining Conferences Smaller, Intimate Gatherings Event Expectations Corporate Sponsorship DevOpsDays Event Innovation Audience Engagement Quality Content Work Culture Themes: Changing Landscape of Community Events: - The transition from large, corporate-driven events to more intimate, community-focused gatherings. - Increased costs and rising expectations around conference quality, including swag, food, and networking opportunities. Post-COVID Adjustments: - The impact of COVID-19 on the event industry, with many conferences either canceled or downsized. - The shift toward smaller, more sustainable gatherings to maintain a community feel. Burnout and Sustainability: - The burnout experienced by event organizers due to the intense workload and high expectations. - The need for a shift in event structures to ensure long-term sustainability without overwhelming organizers. The Rise of Volunteer-Driven, Scrappy Events: - The idea that future community events could become more volunteer-driven, with fewer resources but a stronger sense of community. - The potential for outdoor, low-budget gatherings as a viable alternative to traditional corporate-sponsored conferences. Evolving Expectations and the Need for Quality Content: - The maturation of communities such as DevOps, with fewer new problems to solve, leading to less excitement around large conferences. - A push for events that focus on high-quality, meaningful content rather than just drawing large crowds with high-profile speakers. Challenges in Finding and Funding Smaller Events: - The difficulty in identifying the right community events to sponsor or participate in due to the fragmented nature of the community space. - The lack of a centralized platform or entity to help streamline event participation and funding. Reimagining the Future of Conferences: - The idea that conferences may need to evolve creatively, focusing more on knowledge sharing and personal connections than on large-scale spectacles. - The potential for a shift away from big-budget events toward more grassroots, community-oriented models. Transcript [00:00:00] Jason Hand: That was a really great episode. [00:00:02] Wesley Faulkner: Yes. Actually, it was more filled with questions. Content that I didn't expect because I thought I knew the subject so well, but hearing those perspectives actually really put it in focus for me. [00:00:15] Jason Hand: And we also completely went off script. We had a, what, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight questions pre selected that we were going to get through. [00:00:24] Jason Hand: We didn't even get through half of them. And we also pivoted and changed the course a little bit based on how the conversation went along. [00:00:31] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, it was really great. [00:00:33] Jason Hand: Yeah for anyone who may have stumbled across the after polls before listening to the community polls, we just got done talking with two of our guests Matty, a Stratton and Mo MacElaney. I'm pronouncing her last name wrong. [00:00:45] Jason Hand: But it goes back. And we basically wanted to talk about community events and where we are with it and how things have changed. We talked a lot. Where things are, how things have changed through COVID and did bucket things into a pre COVID post COVID a lot of different [00:01:00] subjects. [00:01:00] Jason Hand: That we got into there. And I thought it was really interesting. I think nobody's surprised that budgets have tightened up and that it's just harder to do things the way we used to do it. And I don't know if that's because money was just easier to come by, sponsorship money. [00:01:15] Jason Hand: It was, so therefore it was easier to like, put these things together. But times have changed and COVID did that did play a big role in that. But I think we also identify that it's not just that. I think that some of us that have been involved with these things, we're all changing too, and most of us are still involved with these types of roles professionally, but at least for me personally, I pointed out that I Tend to shy away from spending a lot of my free time, and when I think about DevOps days Rockies, which is like the core main community event that I was involved with for years, I felt like I was working round the clock for the months and months leading up to that. And me, not just me other organizers as well. And that, I think I knew it was never really [00:02:00] sustainable, but it took a couple burnout sessions, burnout, periods for me too. [00:02:05] Jason Hand: Finally, I just don't think I want to keep doing this. I don't think it's worth the burnout. I don't think it's worth the effort. And then also I think it's always good to get out of the way and let other people step in and take charge a little bit and just see what they can do with stuff. [00:02:22] Jason Hand: So it was nice to hear a little bit of confirmation, that it's not just me that feels that way. What's your take on that? [00:02:29] Wesley Faulkner: Yeah, it does take a lot of time to go to these events, but I also wanted to say it does take a lot of money and we were talking about sponsorships and getting enough sponsors, but I'm talking from the attendee perspective, I think. [00:02:41] Wesley Faulkner: Ticket costs, entry fees have also steadily moved up as I think the expectations have also moved up of what to expect from a conference. I do remember like a decade, two decades ago when going to conferences, the expectations We're way [00:03:00] smaller. You just expected to run into people, have a microphone, maybe, sometimes not, a cafeteria, auditorium. [00:03:09] Wesley Faulkner: But now there's swag that's expected. There's branded t-shirts and lanyards and receptions, food and drink. It's less scrappy. And so the expectations have made it so that it's less achievable. I think for me going to conferences I don't know how many I would go to if my employer wasn't helping to pay the bill for me to get there, both from a transportation cost, but also just the ticket costs are high. [00:03:36] Wesley Faulkner: And so I do thi

Over the past few years, we’ve seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community-run conferences have evolved into new things, new ones have sprouted up while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into a community-led conference? How does someone get involved? Let’s take a look! 1. The Role of Community Conferences in DevRel: Jason Hand introduces the topic, highlighting the evolution of community conferences over the years. While some conferences have grown, others have disappeared, leaving the question of what sustains such events. Wesley Faulkner discusses the importance of understanding the origins and logistics behind community conferences, including the passion and effort required to make them happen. 2. Guests’ Journeys into Organizing Community Events: Matty Stratton: Started organizing DevOpsDays Chicago after realizing the need for a local event in his area. His motivation was to be involved in something he cared about by taking the lead in creating it. Shared how his experience organizing swing dance events shaped his community involvement philosophy: organizing allows him to stay engaged and create meaningful connections. Mo McElaney: Entered tech after a career switch during the 2009 recession. She started organizing events through a nonprofit teaching women to code, which opened doors to organizing Ruby conferences and others. Her lack of experience in tech initially became a motivator for organizing conferences, as it allowed her to connect with experts and learn from them. 3. Why Organizers Keep Coming Back: Mo McElaney: Community conferences create meaningful connections and friendships. They are also a way to spot industry trends by seeing what topics speakers submit for presentations. Matty Stratton: Highlighted the emotional rewards of helping others and witnessing life-changing moments for attendees, such as finding jobs or negotiating better salaries through transparent discussions at events like DevOpsDays. Shared the struggles of stepping back from organizing long-running events due to the personal attachment and friendships developed over the years. 4. Impact of COVID-19 on Community Conferences: Matty Stratton and Mo McElaney agree that COVID-19 significantly disrupted the conference landscape: Many community conferences either downsized, paused, or failed to recover due to funding challenges. The corporate sponsorship landscape has shifted, prioritizing events with high ROI and attendee numbers over smaller, more impactful community-led events. Wesley Faulkner observes that increased workloads and layoffs post-COVID have further limited individuals’ capacity to attend or organize events. 5. Challenges in Organizing Community Conferences: Funding: Conferences often struggle to secure sponsorships, especially in today’s economic climate. Corporate funding focuses on large-scale events, leaving smaller, localized conferences underfunded. Volunteer Management: Organizers face difficulties when volunteers fail to deliver on their commitments. Unlike employees, volunteers can’t be held accountable in the same way. Mentoring and transitioning leadership roles is often overlooked, leading to burnout or gaps when organizers step away. Changing Needs and Expectations: Conferences that fail to adapt post-COVID may struggle to thrive. The shift towards virtual and hybrid formats requires innovation to stay relevant. 6. Refactoring the Community Conference Model: Matty Stratton and Jason Hand propose the need for reimagining how conferences operate: Smaller, localized events can reduce costs and environmental impact while fostering deeper connections. Events like outdoor retreats (e.g., DevOpsDays Rockies incorporating the natural setting of Colorado) demonstrate creative ways to bring people together. Mo McElaney emphasizes the importance of paying speakers and organizers for their work, advocating for a more sustainable model that values the labor involved in organizing community events. Key Takeaways: Community Conferences Have Evolved: Post-COVID, conferences face new challenges, including funding limitations, organizer burnout, and changing attendee expectations. The importance of maintaining the participatory, community-driven spirit remains central to their success. Innovative Models Are Needed: Smaller, more targeted events or creative formats like retreats could address the current barriers to large-scale conferences. Organizers need to adapt to funding realities by prioritizing impactful, cost-effective event models. Sustainability and Support Are Crucial: Paying organizers and speakers is essential to sustaining long-term involvement in community conference planning. Mentorship and succession planning are critical to ensuring the continuity of events and avoiding burnout. Advice for Aspiring Conference Organizers: Clarify Your Capacity: Be upfront about your time, skills, and communication preferences to set realistic expectations for yourself and the organizing team. Understand the Commitment: Ask detailed questions about the role’s expectations and assess whether it aligns with your availability. Know Your Motivation: Reflect on why you want to organize events. Your passion for the community will help you persevere during challenging moments. Closing Thoughts: Community conferences are evolving but remain a vital part of the DevRel ecosystem. Collaboration, innovation, and sustainability will ensure these events continue to thrive in the changing landscape. Final Quote: “There’s nothing you can do that can’t be done.” – John Lennon Keywords: Community Conferences DevRel (Developer Relations) Organizing Events Post-COVID Challenges Funding Volunteers Leadership Sponsorship Community Engagement Hybrid Events Local Events Compensation Event Sustainability Speaker Fees Community Building Mentorship Innovation Corporate Sponsorship Emerging Trends DevOpsDays PyCon US Rethinking Conference Models Transcript [00:00:00] Jason Hand: Over the past few years, we've seen conferences ebb and flow. Some community run conferences have evolved into new things. New ones have sprouted up, while other annual favorites have sadly gone extinct. What goes into community led conferences, and how does someone get involved? Let's take a look. [00:00:20] Weslefy Faulkner: Conferences are such a big part of many DevRel programs. But where do they come from? Who puts them together and what really happens behind the scenes? We've gathered some of DevRel's event organizers who can help us out. Mo and Maddy, could you introduce yourself, starting with Mo? [00:00:38] Mo McElaney: Hello! Thank you for having me. [00:00:40] Mo McElaney: My name is Mo McElhaney. I work for IBM, leading the strategy of our open source AI developer programs in IBM Research. I ran a nonprofit teaching women to code from 2012 to 2018. I've spoken at conferences around the world. [00:00:59] Mo McElaney: And I've [00:01:00] organized a bunch of different conferences over the years. Burlington Ruby, UX Burlington, Vermont Code Camp, Offline Camp, Abstractions Conf in Pittsburgh. And currently I'm on the contact committee for PyCon US and Ray Summit. And I'm on the board of the Vermont Technology Alliance. [00:01:20] Matty Stratton: Great. [00:01:20] Matty Stratton: I'm Matty. I currently run developer relations and growth for a company called Aiven. And I also have my own DevOps podcast, Arrested DevOps, on the topic of community conferences. I've spent my time as a conference speaker at all sorts of community events all over the world. [00:01:36] Matty Stratton: I was the founder of DevOps Day Chicago, when that started. I've been a co-chair of the global team for DevOps days worldwide, and currently in an advisory role with that. I also help out with the content track for all day DevOps, and there's probably a bunch of other community related conferences that I'm forgetting about that I've helped out at some point over the years. [00:01:58] Matty Stratton: And so if I didn't name your [00:02:00] event and I helped you I apologize, hit me on Twitter and yell at me. Excited to be back on Community Pulse. [00:02:08] Weslefy Faulkner: You really have someone who loves the community when they can't remember all the things that they've done to help run conferences and help the community get together and. [00:02:18] Weslefy Faulkner: Speaking to passion and thinking about why you're doing this. What is your specific answer? Why, what led you to organize conferences to start with you, Maddie? [00:02:27] Matty Stratton: It's funny. And if I want to be a little introspective and honest, it's the same thing that I think brings me to organize. Anything is one of the ways that you can make sure you're involved in something is to run it. [00:02:41] Matty Stratton: And I look back over the time and I spent years running a community around swing dancing here in Chicago. This is not a good life lesson or a good way to live your life. So I don't recommend it. [00:02:52] Matty Stratton: But really the first community event that I. Got involved in organizing was DevOps days, Chicago, and it came from [00:03:00] being interested in DevOps days, having wanted to go to one and not having had the chance and saying, Hey, maybe we should have one in Chicago reached out to the global team, and they said, Oh last year, some people were interested. [00:03:12] Matty Stratton: I can put you in touch with them. Maybe y'all can figure it out where we are now. 10 plus years later after that, a fateful little meeting that we had in the second floor walkup consulting company thing. So it's interesting, and hear what most is what leads you to originally organize a conference and what keeps you doing it, or maybe two different questions and maybe we come back to that second one in a minute. [00:03:31] Matty Stratton: 'cause the answers are [00:03:32] Weslefy Faulkner: Yes. I would love that answer. And I think it also has. You don't have to be an expert i

In this episode of After Pulse 89, the co-hosts—PJ Haggerty, Jason Hand, Mary Thengvall, and Wesley Faulkner—continue the conversation from the previous episode of Community Pulse, discussing the transition of DevRel professionals who move on to different roles. The focus of this episode is on the evolving landscape of DevRel, the shifting career trajectories of people in the field, and the complexities that come with leaving DevRel roles to pursue new challenges. The hosts reflect on the shared experiences and skills DevRel professionals carry with them into their new roles, including the ability to learn and adapt. Co-Hosts’ Reflections: PJ Haggerty starts the conversation by celebrating the return of Matt and Taylor to the podcast. He reflects on how Matt’s departure from DevRel has played out, noting that Matt is doing well in his current role. He shares his own thoughts on the question that often comes up for DevRel professionals: "What happens after DevRel?" PJ highlights that while many in DevRel are content with their work, it’s natural for people to face burnout, and he mentions how important it is to recognize when to move on. Jason Hand adds that many people in DevRel often find themselves wondering what comes next when the "light burns out." He shares his own perspective as someone who enjoys learning and feels that the skills developed in DevRel, like the ability to learn new things quickly, are incredibly valuable in any role, including product management. Jason emphasizes the importance of focusing not just on job titles but on skills and experiences—what a person brings to the table rather than the specific job title they’ve held. Mary Thengvall talks about how, even when someone leaves DevRel, they often continue to apply the same skills they used in DevRel, especially when transitioning into product management or other fields. She emphasizes the idea that people in DevRel excel at things like product management tasks and skills, which can be leveraged in other roles. Mary encourages the audience to focus less on titles and more on the specific skills they bring to new roles, and she also mentions how this approach helps when looking for new opportunities. Transitioning Out of DevRel: Wesley Faulkner discusses how DevRel professionals often bring a wealth of diverse experiences and skills to their roles. He points out that many people in DevRel, including himself, have backgrounds in fields like engineering, customer support, and even politics. Wesley stresses that these diverse experiences help professionals navigate the challenges they face in DevRel and provide valuable perspectives in leadership roles. However, he also acknowledges that many of these past experiences are difficult to communicate effectively in traditional job interviews, which can make transitioning to new roles more challenging. Mary continues the discussion by highlighting how DevRel professionals are often misjudged in interviews due to the broad and sometimes vague nature of their roles. She discusses how one of her friends with experience in customer support, product management, and customer success had to downplay her job titles and focus more on her skills to find a new role. This idea of emphasizing "skills over titles" becomes a recurring theme throughout the conversation. Reflections on the State of DevRel Today: PJ Haggerty points out the disconnect between what DevRel professionals actually do and how companies currently define the role. He shares his frustration with how DevRel professionals are expected to have deep technical experience in areas like Python, Ruby, and AI when many of them do not have formal training in those areas. PJ believes that the true value of DevRel professionals lies in their ability to educate, explain complex systems, and bridge gaps, not necessarily in having deep technical expertise in every language a company uses. He argues that AI companies and other tech companies need to better understand the core skills DevRel professionals offer. Jason Hand chimes in with his own experiences working with developers at Datadog. He mentions how, in his current role, he’s helping engineering teams improve their communication skills, making them better presenters at conferences and user events. Jason expresses pride when a developer he worked with successfully presents a talk, even though the impact of his coaching is often invisible to the larger audience. This lack of visibility for the contributions of DevRel professionals is a recurring theme—many of their efforts are behind the scenes, making them hard to measure but still incredibly important. Skills Beyond Titles: Wesley Faulkner highlights the difficulty in expressing the value of the diverse skills DevRel professionals have developed. He shares his own experiences, including his time as a product development engineer at AMD and his work in political campaigns, noting how these diverse experiences shape how he handles tough situations in DevRel. While these experiences are incredibly useful, they don’t always fit neatly into traditional job descriptions. Wesley reflects that DevRel professionals often end up performing roles that involve explaining complex concepts, handling high-pressure situations, and working across teams, but these skills are often undervalued in more conventional job roles. Mary Thengvall echoes this sentiment, stressing that many DevRel professionals come to the role from "sideways" paths, bringing with them varied life experiences that make them uniquely equipped to handle the demands of DevRel. She highlights how people entering DevRel without this broader experience often lack the passion and historical context that more experienced DevRel professionals bring to the table. Without the context of the role’s evolution, it can be challenging for newer professionals to fully grasp the complexities of DevRel and to advocate for its continued importance. The Importance of Leadership in DevRel: Wesley discusses how the lack of senior leadership with traditional DevRel backgrounds can complicate the future of the field. He notes that while DevRel professionals bring valuable leadership qualities to the table, such as the ability to connect different departments and handle challenging situations, few of these professionals rise to senior leadership roles within their companies. Wesley argues that promoting more DevRel professionals into higher positions would help ensure that the value of DevRel is better understood and properly championed within organizations. Mary agrees with Wesley, emphasizing the importance of continuing to mentor and support those in DevRel roles, even when they transition out of DevRel into other areas. She points out that people like Matt, who have transitioned from DevRel into product management, still stay connected with the DevRel community and support those who continue to work in the field. Final Thoughts on Career Shifts and the Future of DevRel: The episode concludes with PJ reiterating the value of being a "jack of all trades" in DevRel. He reminds the audience that while it’s often said that "a jack of all trades is a master of none," there’s an important second half to the saying: "but oftentimes better than a master of one." DevRel professionals are skilled at learning, adapting, and picking up new knowledge quickly, which makes them well-suited for a wide range of roles, even outside of DevRel. Mary adds that the most important thing for DevRel professionals is to have a clear understanding of their skills and passions, so they can continue to thrive in whatever role they choose. Wesley echoes this sentiment, noting that DevRel professionals have valuable leadership skills that should be recognized and nurtured. Key Words: DevRel Career Transition Skills vs Titles Burnout Leadership Product Management Learning and Adaptation Community Engagement Job Market Disconnect Job Experience vs Skills Networking and Mentorship Career Growth Historical Context Jack of All Trades Themes: The Evolving Role of DevRel Professionals: - The shifting expectations of DevRel and how people in the field bring diverse skills to roles that aren't always formally recognized as DevRel. - The difficulty of translating broad DevRel skills into conventional job titles and how this affects career progression. Skills Over Titles: - Emphasizing skills and experience over job titles, and how this approach helps DevRel professionals thrive in new roles like product management or leadership positions. - The challenge of rebranding yourself and your skills when transitioning careers. Burnout and Career Shifts: - The impact of burnout on DevRel professionals and the natural progression toward other roles, including product management. - The importance of recognizing when it’s time for a change to avoid burnout and find new professional challenges. Leadership and Mentorship: - The need for more senior leadership within DevRel and the value of promoting experienced DevRel professionals to higher organizational roles. - The importance of mentorship and maintaining connections within the DevRel community, even when transitioning to other roles. Historical Context and Passion for DevRel: - The disconnect between new and experienced professionals in DevRel, with the latter group often carrying a deeper understanding of the field’s evolution and the importance of advocating for its continued value. - The importance of retaining historical context in the development of DevRel to ensure its future relevance. Value of Being a "Jack of All Trades": - Embracing the breadth of knowledge DevRel professionals bring and how their versatility makes them valuable in many roles, despite the challenge of fitting into narrow job descriptions. Transcript Transcript [00:00:00] PJ Haggerty: That was a great episode. Really fantastic. Not just for the content, but I will say it's great because we hadn't seen Taylor and Matt on the podcast in

In this episode, the hosts discuss the evolving career paths of Developer Relations (DevRel) professionals, focusing on those who have transitioned out of DevRel or are contemplating such a move. Co-hosts PJ Haggerty, Mary Thengvall, Wesley Faulkner, and Jason Hand engage with guests Taylor Barnett-Torabi and Matt Broberg, who share their experiences with leaving DevRel and exploring new roles. The episode touches on themes like career shifts, identity, burnout, and the skills that are transferable to new positions, particularly in product management. Guest Introductions: Taylor Barnett-Torabi reflects on her nine years in DevRel, with roles spanning product marketing, support, and engineering. After a recent layoff, she is now exploring product management roles, particularly those involving external developers. Matt Broberg, with 15 years of experience, shifted from DevRel to product management at Target, citing personal reasons like starting a family and the exhaustion from constant travel. He discusses his transition into a more structured product management role where he found more clarity and stability. Co-Hosts’ Perspectives: PJ Haggerty opens the discussion by noting that the definition of DevRel has always been fluid and constantly evolving. He reflects on how many professionals in DevRel are required to wear multiple hats, balancing technical work, marketing, sales, and community engagement. For many, this lack of clarity in job expectations leads to burnout. PJ recognizes that DevRel professionals are often caught between the pressures of representing their companies, managing community relationships, and working with other departments, which can make the role unsustainable. Mary Thengvall adds to the conversation, discussing the challenges of defining clear DevRel roles. She explains that with such a wide range of expectations, professionals can feel disconnected from their core mission. Mary encourages DevRel professionals to think about their career trajectory and how they want their job to align with their personal life and passions. She also underscores the importance of self-awareness and recognizing when it's time for a change, highlighting that many DevRel professionals possess transferable skills that can help them pivot to roles like product management. Wesley Faulkner comments on the evolving nature of DevRel and the burnout many experience, especially given the expectations that come with travel, content creation, and event planning. He shares his perspective that, as the industry matures, many DevRel professionals may feel they have "graduated" from the role and are ready for a new challenge. Wesley echoes the sentiment that DevRel professionals may naturally move into product management or similar positions due to their deep involvement with engineering teams and the product development process. Jason Hand brings his unique perspective as someone who has also been part of the DevRel space for years. He highlights that many people in DevRel, himself included, end up working more closely with product teams than marketing teams, which often leads to a natural progression toward product management. Jason adds that, in his own experience, the role of DevRel can be exhilarating but exhausting. He acknowledges the ups and downs, including the excitement of community building and the frustration that can come with trying to balance so many roles within one job. Jason also provides a thoughtful commentary on the shifting expectations of the DevRel community. He shares his personal experiences with burnout from events like DevOpsDays Rockies, where he was involved in organizing and noticed the increasing complexity and demands of running large-scale community events. For Jason, this evolution mirrored his growing awareness that DevRel, as it was previously structured, wasn’t sustainable long-term. He is now seeking a role that aligns with his current life stage, acknowledging that the changing landscape of DevRel has influenced his own career trajectory. Transitioning Out of DevRel: Matt’s Journey: Matt’s transition from DevRel was rooted in a personal desire for less travel and more stability after starting a family. He also noted that DevRel, which often involves explaining the role to others, became less appealing. The constant juggling of multiple responsibilities without a clear focus was exhausting. Moving into product management, where the role is more defined, gave Matt the clarity and focus he sought. He explains that product management, while still requiring cross-functional collaboration, allowed him to focus on building and scaling products rather than explaining what he did all the time. Taylor’s Journey: Taylor, after a layoff, reflected on her long-term career goals and concluded that DevRel was not something she wanted to do indefinitely. She had already worn many hats—product marketing, support, and product management—which led her to explore product management as a career option. Taylor admits that transitioning away from DevRel was a challenging decision, but after engaging in various product roles, she realized that she was already performing the duties of a PM without the official title. Her journey also highlighted the need to redefine what success looks like in a new role, which was a common theme throughout the episode. Co-Hosts’ Views on Career Transitions: Wesley emphasizes the importance of knowing what parts of DevRel you excel at and how that can guide a future career shift. He mentions that many DevRel professionals already possess a solid understanding of product development, community engagement, and customer feedback—all skills that translate well into roles like product management or engineering. Mary agrees and discusses the importance of defining your boundaries and expectations when considering a career shift. She acknowledges that DevRel professionals may want more structure and clarity in their roles, which is often found in product management or engineering. PJ reflects on the ever-changing nature of job descriptions in DevRel. He acknowledges that the role is often misdefined, leading to confusion about what DevRel actually entails. PJ stresses the importance of setting clear parameters for oneself when looking to transition into another role and maintaining transparency during the interview process. He encourages listeners to focus on their strengths and communicate their career goals clearly to employers. The Role of Networking and Relationships: Both Matt and Taylor emphasize the value of networking and building relationships throughout their careers. Taylor talks about the importance of leveraging her network, including people who had successfully transitioned into product management, to gain insight into the process. She also mentions that her personal website, where she outlined her career goals and what she was looking for, helped clarify her intentions to potential employers. Co-Hosts’ Takeaways: Wesley emphasizes the need for professionals to assess their skills, passions, and long-term career goals. He encourages those considering a career shift to find roles that align with their interests and offer the opportunity for growth. Jason adds that, for many DevRel professionals, the transition to product management feels like a natural evolution due to the similarities between the roles. He notes that despite the changes, he still finds the core of DevRel—community engagement and helping developers—appealing, and that the landscape continues to shift, making it important for individuals to adapt accordingly. Final Thoughts on Returning to DevRel: As the episode wraps up, Matt shares that, for now, he is content in his product management role and would not return to DevRel, even if presented with a job offer. However, he acknowledges that roles within DevRel vary greatly, and he wouldn't rule out returning if the right opportunity arose. Taylor, meanwhile, is open to returning to DevRel but only if the role is a better fit for her personal and professional goals, including avoiding burnout. Conclusion: The episode concludes with a conversation about how DevRel professionals are increasingly taking control of their career trajectories. They are setting clearer boundaries, exploring roles outside of DevRel, and finding new ways to apply their skills in product management, engineering, and other fields. The key takeaway is the importance of understanding personal goals, being clear about what you want, and using the skills honed in DevRel to explore new and fulfilling career paths. Key Words and Themes: Keywords: DevRel Product Management (PM) Career Transition Burnout Role Clarity Self-Awareness Networking Product Marketing Skills Transfer Community Building Job Titles Travel Work-Life Balance Personal Motivation Identity Shift Themes: - The Evolution and Ambiguity of DevRel Roles: - The constantly changing expectations and definitions of DevRel roles, which contribute to career shifts. - The importance of clarity in defining DevRel responsibilities to avoid burnout. - Burnout and Work-Life Balance: - How burnout, especially from constant travel and shifting roles, leads DevRel professionals to explore other career opportunities. - The impact of personal life changes (e.g., starting a family) on career decisions. - Transferable Skills from DevRel: - The value of skills learned in DevRel, such as community engagement, cross-team collaboration, and product feedback integration, which can be applied to other roles like product management and marketing. - Career Clarity and Self-Awareness: - The importance of understanding personal strengths and passions to make a career transition successful. - Setting clear expectations during job searches and being transparent about job preferences. - The Role of Networking and Mentorship: - Leveraging relationships built during a DevRel career to facilitate career transitions. - The

Our hosts elaborate on the notion that, apart from speaking engagements, much of the work undertaken by DevRel professionals remains backstage, yet through live streaming, they can learn publicly and involve community members, overcoming concerns and fostering engaging content for community learning. Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.

With the exception of speaking at conferences, much of what we do as DevRel professionals is behind-the-scenes. However, with live streaming, we’re able to not only learn in public, but bring our community members into the experience. While this can be intimidating, and lead to questions like “what if I make a mistake?” - or - “What if I don’t know all the answers?” - or - “How do I make sure I come across as knowledgeable while I’m also learning?” it can also be a great way to create engaging content that helps your community learn alongside you. Checkouts Laurent Bugnion * Learn Live (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/learn-live/?WT.mc_id=academic-0000-lbugnion) - the show I produce for Microsoft * GalaSoft (https://galasoft.ch/) - my website with my blog, past presentations and future appearances Darko Mesaros * AWS Community - Livestreams (https://community.aws/livestreams) * rup12 (https://www.rup12.net/) Wesley Faulkner * Spyware leak offers ‘first-of-its-kind’ look inside Chinese government hacking efforts (https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/23/isoon-china-government-hacking-spyware-leak/) Jason Hand * “Use Gemini AI to improve productivity while using Datadog” (https://cloud.withgoogle.com/next/speakers?session=OPS206) @ Google Next * Datadog On Data Science (https://datadogon.datadoghq.com/episodes/datadog-on-data-science/) Mary Thengvall * The Roaring Days of Zora Lily (https://amzn.to/3uIwpUg) (and everything by Noelle Salazar) * Timeshifte (https://www.timeshifter.com/)r - app for avoiding jetlag Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village. Special Guests: Darko Mesaros and Laurent Bugnion.

PJ and Wesley expound on stories of success, what it takes to get to a "win" and reflect on their conversation with Ole and Kevin. Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.

Sharing success stories can be helpful in finding what the next step is for your Developer Relations and Community team. That one project that just went perfectly; that moment that showed everyone things were moving forward. Today we’ll share the vision, strategy, approach, and bumps along the way and the end result…some stories of wins that will lead us forward. Checkouts Kevin Blanco * Davinci Resolve & Storytelling for DevRel (https://davinci.mov/) * Live every week Davinci Resolve & Storytelling for DevRel (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinblanco/) Ole Hejlskov * Post-layoff assistance to find new positions - take it! Wesley Faulkner * BioDrop (https://www.biodrop.io/) - Heard from Eddie Jaoude * Tech Industry Mass Layoffs (https://youtu.be/UcSYHOubzJk) PJ Hagerty * Sunny Day Real Estate (https://combine.fm/spotify/track/1OlbUQSGl2vsB1S7CaprIw) by Novum Vetus Artwork photo by Jason Dent (https://unsplash.com/@jdent?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash) Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village. Special Guests: Kevin Blanco and Ole Hejlskov.

Our Community Pulse hosts take a look back at 2023 - the episodes, the patterns, and our observations. Checkouts PJ Hagerty * Go see live music and support your local musicians! * Baldur's Gate 3 (https://baldursgate3.game/) deserves to be Game of the Year Jason Hand * The Midnight Library (https://amzn.to/47bcIkU) * A Court of Thorns and Roses (https://amzn.to/41B0zEL) * Fourth Wing (https://amzn.to/3RSxvp3) Mary Thengvall * Kindle Unlimited subscription (https://amzn.to/3RCVaIG) - $11.99/month for unlimited ebooks and audiobooks! Wesley Faulkner * Tesla is having issues producing 4680 cells for Cybertruck, sketchy report says | Electrek (https://electrek.co/2023/12/21/tesla-issues-producing-4680-cells-cybertruck-sketchy-report/) Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.

Mary, PJ, and Jason wrap up their conversation of the Common Room survey and what it might mean for the industry moving forward. Enjoy the podcast? Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.

As the industry continues to change, keeping a pulse on it becomes even more difficult. Luckily, the team over at Common Room partnered with a number of DevRel professionals (some of whom are on this call!) to create a survey focused on DevRel compensation as well as roles and responsibilities, business impact, success metrics, and personal wellbeing. In this episode, we’ll talk about the results of the survey and learn what we can do to push the industry forward. 2023 Common Room Survey Results Overview (https://www.commonroom.io/blog/2023-developer-relations-compensation-and-culture-report-overview/) Checkouts Rebecca Marshburn * The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How our Government Segregated America (https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-Forgotten-Government-Segregated/dp/1631494538?&linkCode=sl1&tag=persea-20&linkId=4c15702a44d9c65837b15d8b7d3976e7&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl) by Richard Rothstein * Common Room DevRel playbooks (https://www.commonroom.io/playbooks/?filters=community/developer-relations) - Like ‘How to automate your GitHub triage processes’ and ‘Easily meet your support SLAs’: * re:Invent - come join our DevRel brunch! Invite here (https://commonroombrunchinvegas.splashthat.com/) - open to all! PJ Hagerty * New Wu-Tang Single (https://combine.fm/spotify/track/3vTSGUgTcDJHO47dlkzDcU) * Boygenius - The Rest (https://open.spotify.com/album/1n0esOkFQdL74PwMwTVgtz?si=QHLrBqmESzWpmFdqBOLSyg) * Southern Rites - a Photo documentary (https://www.eastman.org/doc-southernrites) * Ocean at the End of the Lane (https://www.amazon.com/Ocean-End-Lane-Novel/dp/0063070707) by Neil Gaiman Jason Hand * Re:invent Sessions (https://dtdg.co/3slq5ks) Mary Thengvall * Demon Copperhead (https://amzn.to/3tImsVQ) by Barbara Kingsolver * P!nk - new(ish) album (https://pink.lnk.to/TRUSTFALL) + concert experience Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village. Episode artwork by UX Indonesia (https://unsplash.com/@uxindo?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/@uxindo?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash) Special Guest: Rebecca Marshburn.

Join Wesley and PJ at DevRelCon. Both keynote speakers at this year's event, they had the chance to connect with some fantastic attendees. Here is a conversation straight from Wesley, PJ, and other attendees at DevRelCon. Artwork by Jack Finnigan (https://unsplash.com/@jackofallstreets) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/@jackofallstreets). Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village. Special Guests: Alvin Bryan, Graham, and Kris Jenkins.

Are you ready for even more hot takes, strong opinions, fun and a little bit of snark? Join Wesley, Jason, and PJ as they continue the discussion. You won't want to miss it! Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.

We all know there is no end to the various perceptions around what it is we do and who we are. It’s something that makes defining Developer Relations difficult and makes it difficult to describe to others. So what are some of the touch points and touchier topics when it comes to DevRel? Checkouts SJ Morris * lpubelts.com (https://lpubelts.com/) Wesley Faulkner * I, Robot - Isaac Aslmov (https://www.amazon.com/I-Robot-Isaac-Asimov-audiobook/dp/B0002P0F2G/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=I%2C+Robot&qid=1694104756&s=books&sr=1-1) PJ Hagerty * Baldur’s Gate 3 (https://baldursgate3.game/) * Sunny Day Real Estate (https://sunnyday.realestate/) Jason Hand * Workshop Week (https://www.datadoghq.com/event/workshop-week-2023/) * Reliable Machine Learning: Applying SRE Principles to ML in Production (https://www.amazon.com/Reliable-Machine-Learning-Principles-Production/dp/1098106229/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sre+for+machine+learning+o%27reilly&qid=1692981778&sr=8-1) Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village. Artwork photo by Mockup Graphics (https://unsplash.com/@mockupgraphics?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/@mockupgraphics?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) Special Guest: SJ Morris.

Don't miss our hosts as they delve back into their takeaways from their conversation with Angie and Evan about the importance of clarifying and concentrating on your role. Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.

As we learned in Episode 79, “How We Broke DevRel as an Industry (https://www.communitypulse.io/79-how-we-broke-devrel-as-an-industry)”, sometimes the people in charge may not know how to set you up for success. The tasks you’re expected to do can take you away from your core focus. In today’s episode, we’ll talk through how to define your role and defend your team against that very real possibility of being tasked with items that don’t belong within your purview. Checkouts Evan Hamilton * Factfulness: Ten Reasons We're Wrong about the World by Hans Rosling (https://www.amazon.com/Factfulness-Reasons-World-Things-Better/dp/1250123828/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=580750427006&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9010222&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5641429314803382062&hvtargid=kwd-429505407993&hydadcr=22567_13493270&keywords=factfulness+by+hans+rosling&qid=1690810799&s=books&sr=1-1) * People I Mostly Admire speaks to Chicago’s innovative sheriff (https://freakonomics.com/podcast/chicagos-renegade-sheriff-wants-to-fix-law-enforcement/) * Chris Detzel (https://chrisdetzel.com/) * Community Manager Breakfast (https://www.evanhamilton.com/community-manager-breakfast/) Angie Jones * ChatGPT (https://openai.com/) * Hackathons! Wesley Faulkner * Positioning with April Dunford (http://positioning.show) * Setting up For Success in Your Next Role: Where to start? (https://www.devrelx.com/post/setting-up-for-success-in-your-next-role-where-to-start) Jason Hand * DASH conference (https://www.dashcon.io/) * Beginners Guide to Sketchnoting: Focus Better, Learn Faster and Remember Longer by Drawing Your Notes (https://a.co/d/eSaombF) by Ashton Rodenhiser Mary Thengvall * American Dirt (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45721673-american-dirt) by Jeanine Cummins * Puppy Training: Sexier than a Squirrel (https://absolute-dogs.com/product/squirrel/) Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village. Artwork photo by Paul Skorupskas (https://unsplash.com/@pawelskor?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) on Unsplash (https://unsplash.com/@pawelskor?utm_source=unsplash&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=creditCopyText) Special Guests: Angie Jones and Evan Hamilton.

Tune in to PJ and Mary as they revisit their insightful discussion with Danielle and David on the subject of devops. Enjoy the podcast? Please take a few moments to leave us a review on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/community-pulse/id1218368182?mt=2) and follow us on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3I7g5W9fMSgpWu38zZMjet?si=eb528c7de12b4d7a&nd=1&dlsi=b0c85248dabc48ce), or leave a review on one of the other many podcasting sites that we’re on! Your support means a lot to us and helps us continue to produce episodes every month. Like all things Community, this too takes a village.