Complicating The Narrative

When tribunals like the International Criminal Court prosecutes gender-based violence in conflict, what evidence do they need? And who gathers it? Kim Thuy Seelinger is a Professor of Practice at Washington University School of Public Health and former senior coordinator for Gender-Based Crimes at the International Criminal Court in the Hague until the Spring of 2025. For over two decades, she's worked at the intersection of international criminal law and public health. In this episode, Kim and Salma explore how gender-based violence manifests in conflict—not just sexual violence, but forced starvation, attacks on healthcare, reproductive coercion, and denial of education. They examine how international law distinguishes between war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide, and why proving these crimes remains so difficult, especially when prosecuting high-level perpetrators. The conversation tackles a fundamental question: How can public health methods strengthen international justice? Kim explains how epidemiological data, trauma-informed approaches, and understanding of health systems can help document crimes at scale, establish patterns of violence, and ensure reparations address survivors' long-term needs. But she's also honest about the tensions—between prevention and punishment, between individual accountability and systemic change, and between what the law promises and what survivors actually experience. This is a conversation about breaking down silos between fields that urgently need each other and confronting the gap between justice on paper and justice in practice.   Useful resources: Seelinger KT. Sexual Violence and Armed Conflict- Theories, myths, and holistic response. Presented at: Public Health Speaker Series; February 25, 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4B7s2pEPMQ Seelinger KT. Substance, Systems, Survivors: The essential synergy of public health and international justice. Presented at: Talking Public Health seminar series; April 25, 2025. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BU1iSV68xU Center for Human Rights, Gender & Migration, Mukwege Foundation. Understanding Conflict-Related Sexual Violence in Ethiopia; 2022. https://www.mukwegefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/ETH_CRSV-in-ETH-Report_221012_FINAL.pdf Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What is global health—and who gets to define it?  For decades, the field has claimed universality while being shaped largely by specific institutions, priorities, and assumptions. But what happens when we center the places where most global health “problems” are identified? What does it mean to tell someone living in a Dhaka slum to shelter in place during a pandemic?  In this episode, Salma is joined by Dr. Sabina Faiz Rashid, Professor and Mushtaque Chowdhury Chair in Health and Poverty at the BRAC James P. Grant School of Public Health in Bangladesh; Director of the Center of Excellence for Gender, Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights; and Honorary Professor at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine. As a medical anthropologist whose career has been rooted in the alleys, kitchens, and courtyards of Dhaka’s urban slums, Dr. Rashid has spent decades challenging how we think about health, poverty, gender—and whose knowledge counts.  Together, they examine what global health often misses: the over-reliance on disease-focused indicators, the tendency to blame individuals for choices that are shaped by circumstance, and the habit of designing interventions far from the communities they attempt to serve. Drawing on vivid examples from Dr. Rashid’s ethnographic work, they explore how a mother’s health depends not only on symptoms or clinical markers, but on whether water runs for 20 minutes today, whether her husband finds work, and whether she has more than one egg to feed her children.  The conversation moves from methodology to power. Salma and Sabina discuss why qualitative and quantitative approaches both matter—and why neither is meaningful without genuine community partnership. They also consider the limitations of current “decolonization” conversations, suggesting that simple binaries obscure the complex power dynamics that exist both between and within countries.  This episode is an invitation to rethink global health from the ground up—its assumptions, its methods, its politics, and its future. It’s a conversation for anyone who believes public health must reflect the lived realities of the people it aims to serve.    Useful resources:   - "Sabina F Rashid, PhD." BRAC University, www.bracu.ac.bd/about/people/sabina-f-rashid-phd. Accessed 24 Nov. 2025.  - Rashid SF. Poverty, Gender and Health in the Slums of Bangladesh: Children of Crows. Routledge; 2024.    Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.  

What do we mean when we say health is a human right? Dr. Benjamin Mason Meier is a Professor of Global Health Policy at the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Chapel Hill who has focused his research on the development, evolution, and application of human rights-based approaches to health.   In this episode, Dr. Meier joins Salma to explore the foundations of health as a human right—from its post-World War II origins to its development in international law. They discuss the obligations this framing creates for governments and international organizations, how rights must translate into tangible policies that improve health outcomes, and the tensions between advocacy and accountability. They also address the politics related to global health governance and human rights and consider what a human rights approach to health might look like in a future shaped by AI, climate change, and increased polarization.  Join this episode to learn about the difference between health as a human right as a slogan and health as a human right as a legal obligation—and why that distinction matters for global health's future.  Useful resources:   Forman L, De Mesquita JB, Filho LB, Meier BM, Sirleaf M. How Did Human Rights Fare in Amendments to the International Health Regulations? J Law Med Ethics. 2024;52(4):907-921. doi:10.1017/jme.2024.172  Gostin LO, Meier BM. Foundations of Global Health & Human Rights. Oxford University Press; 2020.  Gostin LO, Meier BM, eds. Global Health Law and Policy: Ensuring Justice for a Healthier World. Oxford University Press; 2023.  Robinson M. Human Rights in Global Health. Vol 1. (Mason Meier B, Gostin LO, eds.). Oxford University Press; 2018. doi:10.1093/oso/9780190672676.001.0001  Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What can Reddit, Instagram, and other digital platforms tell us about population health? Dr. Yulin Hswen, associate professor at the University of California San Francisco and associate editor of JAMA and JAMA+ AI, is a computational epidemiologist using big data to understand population health in our increasingly digital world.  In this episode, Salma sits down with Dr. Hswen to explore what our digital environments can tell us about public health. From Reddit threads revealing untold health experiences to phone data mapping mobility patterns during disease outbreaks, Dr. Hswen challenges us to see social media platforms and online data not just as communication tools but as health environments that shape—and sometimes distort—population well-being.  Dr. Hswen shares how a personal healthcare experience first sparked her interest in digital data and reflects on what these traces can reveal about collective behavior, equity, and trust. The conversation dives into the ethics of digital and AI research—issues of privacy, representation, and accountability—and unpacks her proposal of “virtuosity” as the sixth V of big data. Dr. Hswen also discusses her work on ethical guidelines for AI using in public health and clinical medicine and how she approaches her editorial work at JAMA and JAMA+ AI and what excites her about the future of computational epidemiology and the use of AI in clinical and public health research.  Whether you're a researcher considering how to incorporate digital methods and AI into your work or simply curious about what your online activity reveals about population-level health patterns, this episode offers essential perspectives.    Useful resources:   Hswen Y, Naslund JA, Hurley M, Ragon B, Handley MA, Fang F, et al. AI-Y: An AI Checklist for Population Ethics Across the Global Context. Curr Epidemiol Rep. 2025;12(1):13. doi:10.1007/s40471-025-00362-w  Kosmyna N, Hauptmann E, Yuan YT, Situ J, Liao XH, Beresnitzky AV, et al. Your Brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of Cognitive Debt when Using an AI Assistant for Essay Writing Task. arXiv. Preprint posted online June 10, 2025. doi:https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2506.08872  Roose K. Do Not Disturb: How I Ditched My Phone and Unbroke My Brain. The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/business/cell-phone-addiction.html. February 23, 2019.  Science & technology. Will AI make you stupid? The Economist. Published online July 16, 2025. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2025/07/16/will-ai-make-you-stupid  Wesson P, Hswen Y, Valdes G, Stojanovski K, Handley MA. Risks and Opportunities to Ensure Equity in the Application of Big Data Research in Public Health. Annu Rev Public Health. 2022;43(1):59-78. doi:10.1146/annurev-publhealth-051920-110928  JAMA+ AI Conversations. https://jamanetwork.com/channels/ai/pages/podcast    Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla  Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares  Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri  Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/    The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What if we could build our world from scratch—with health, justice, and thriving communities at its core? In his new book Imagine Doing Better: Why Policies Backfire and How Prevention Thinking Can Change Everything, Dr. Paul J. Fleming, Associate Professor in the Department of Health Behavior and Health Education at the University of Michigan, argues that prevention—and imagination—should guide how we shape the future. In this conversation, Salma and Paul explore what our great-great-great-great-grandchildren might say about the choices we’re making today, and how we can reimagine the systems that define our lives—from healthcare and education to the environment, justice, and public safety. Together, they discuss how prevention thinking moves beyond treating problems after they arise to transforming the structures that create them in the first place. They also grapple with deeper questions: Are current reforms truly changing the systems that cause harm—or simply reinforcing them? Who gets to shape the conversation about the policies and practices that define a better tomorrow? And how do we sustain hope in generational work that, like a relay race, depends on each generation taking concrete steps and handing the baton forward from a stronger starting point?   Useful resources: Fleming PJ. Imagine Doing Better Why Policies Backfire and How Prevention Thinking Can Change Everything. Johns Hopkins University Press; 2025. Fleming PJ. Making a Better World Possible. https://pjfleming.com/newsletter   Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

The techniques that make health messages more effective—personalization, customization, targeted delivery—are the same tools driving the spread of inaccurate health claims at scale. Dr. Matthew Kreuter, WashU’s Kahn Family Professor of Public Health and founding director of the Health Communication Research Laboratory, is an expert on effective and equity-oriented health communications and has been thinking about these issues for decades. In this episode, Salma and Dr. Kreuter trace the evolution from pamphlet racks to algorithm feeds. They discuss why well-intentioned public health messaging can backfire and highlight the importance of listening. They explore why certain terms have become counterproductive, the costs of communicating false certainty, and why public health can’t message its way out of complex problems. Tune in for a candid discussion about the double-edged nature of communication in the algorithm age, and why the future of health communication may depend less on what we say than on how well we listen.   Useful resources: Kreuter MW, Farrell DW, Olevitch LR, Brennan LK. Tailoring Health Messages. 0 ed. Routledge; 2013. doi:4324/9781315045382 Johnson KJ, Weng O, Kinzer H, et al. iHeard STL: Development and first year findings from a local surveillance and rapid response system for addressing COVID-19 and other health misinformation. Dinga JN, ed. PLoS ONE. 2023;18(11):e0293288. doi:1371/journal.pone.0293288 Schneider T. Rich trove of data on social needs waits to be tapped. WashU Public Health. August 12, 2025. https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu/rich-trove-of-data-on-social-needs-waits-to-be-tapped/ Health Communication Research Laboratory. iHeard St. Louis. https://stl.iheard.org Health Communication Research Laboratory. 211 counts. https://211counts.org/home/index Williams D. What is misinformation, anyway? Conspicuous Cognition. December 1, 2024. https://substack.com/@conspicuouscognition/p-151889774   Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

What is epidemiology and how do we ensure that research is done right in this field? Dr. Matthew A. Fox, Professor in the Departments of Epidemiology and Global Health at Boston University School of Public Health, has dedicated his career to ensuring that epidemiologists get it right. In this episode, Salma and Matt explore what epidemiology actually is, and is not, and discuss the importance of formulating research questions and hypotheses. They dive into how flaws in methods selection, researchers’ incentives, and funding pressures can skew study results. Matt reflects on the pivotal role of the pandemic in challenging scientific status quo and highlights the importance of research transparency and good communication of research—even questioning the relevance of scientific journals as they exist today. Tune in to learn more about the world of epidemiology and the importance of rigor, diligence and transparency in research. Useful resources SERious Epi podcast: https://seriousepi.blubrry.net/ Free Associations podcast: https://populationhealthexchange.org/feature/free-associations-podcast/ Fox MP, MacLehose RF, Lash TL. Applying Quantitative Bias Analysis to Epidemiologic Data. Springer International Publishing; 2021. doi:10.1007/978-3-030-82673-4 Lesko CR, Fox MP. An evolved interpretation of Austin Bradford Hill’s causal viewpoints and their influence on epidemiologic methods. American Journal of Epidemiology. 2025;194(6):1476-1481. doi:10.1093/aje/kwae367 Gelman A. What if I were to stop publishing in journals? Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science. March 11, 2014. https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2014/03/11/stop-publishing-journals/ Mastroianni A. The rise and fall of peer review. Experimental History. December 13, 2022. https://www.experimental-history.com/p/the-rise-and-fall-of-peer-review Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

How can we capture complex social phenomena impacting health in research? Dr. Maria Glymour, Professor and Chair of the Department of Epidemiology at Boston University School of Public Health, has focused her research on the social factors influencing dementia and cognitive function in old age.   Salma and Maria analyze the dementia research landscape and discuss the key elements of the research process to capture complex social phenomena affecting health outcomes. From asking the right questions, to identifying appropriate methods and data, thinking about who the evidence will be useful for, and understanding the potential influences of funders, the conversation explores how research can help change policies. Maria breaks down the differences between causal inference, descriptive research, and associational research, using examples from her own work. She illustrates how these methodological distinctions depend on the questions that want to be answered and the intended audience.   Given it’s doctoral application season, Maria also reflects on some of the main questions for applicants to ask themselves and emphasizes the need for applicants to highlight the specific passions that make their applications unique. As she puts it: “How much of your essay do you think anyone else could write?”   Listen to discover how you can apply these principles to your own work and make a meaningful impact in health scholarship, regardless of the step you are at in your career.   Useful resources Berkman, Lisa F., Ichiro Kawachi, and M. Maria Glymour (eds), Social Epidemiology, 2 edn (New York, 2014; online edn, Oxford Academic, 1 Mar. 2015), https://doi.org/10.1093/med/9780195377903.001.0001. Glymour, M. What to look for in an epidemiology PhD program: 1. top priorities. Published October 12, 2017. Accessed August 28, 2025. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-look-epidemiology-phd-program-1-top-priorities-maria-glymour/?trackingId=WDv%2BbYDyTDq3ln%2BF%2FJF32Q%3D%3D Glymour, M. What to look for in an epidemiology PhD program: 2. Epi in a Medical School or a School of Public Health? Published October 20, 2017. Accessed August 28, 2025. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-look-epidemiology-phd-program-2-epi-medical-school-maria-glymour/?trackingId=NgnbKtTMTwqcjl2T5fg03A%3D%3D Glymour, M. What to look for in a PhD program: 3. Will an interdisciplinary program make you an intellectual leader or an isolated dilettante? Published November 11, 2017. Accessed August 28, 2025. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-look-phd-program-3-pros-cons-interdisciplinary-programs-glymour/?trackingId=NgnbKtTMTwqcjl2T5fg03A%3D%3D Glymour, M. Epidemiology and why I love it: some advice for people considering graduate school. Published August 5, 2018. Accessed August 28, 2025. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/epidemiology-why-i-love-some-advice-people-graduate-school-glymour/?trackingId=NgnbKtTMTwqcjl2T5fg03A%3D%3D Glymour, M. Public Health Graduate Programs: What To Look For. Published October 9, 2023. Accessed August 28, 2025. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/public-health-graduate-programs-what-look-maria-glymour/?trackingId=NgnbKtTMTwqcjl2T5fg03A%3D%3D   Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

In this deeply challenging moment for global health and international relations, how do we navigate the public health challenges that transcend borders? Dr. Anders Nördstrom, program director of the Health Diplomacy Initiative at the Karolinska Institutet and the Stockholm School of Economics has unique experience in working at the intersection of health, politics, economics, and international relations. He was the Interim Executive Director for the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, acting Director of the World Health Organization, first ambassador for global health for Sweden, and head of the Secretariat for the Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response. Salma and Anders discuss health diplomacy and global health leadership, highlighting the need for partnerships and interdisciplinary collaboration. They explore the current global landscape and reflect on the progress that has been made since the establishment of the Millennium Development Goals. Progress has been made, though not at the pace we had hoped for. The conversation also explores three critical priorities: policies that promote healthier rather than solely longer lives, approaches that deliver co-benefits for climate and health, and the evolution needed in multilateral organizations across the global health landscape. This episode invites listeners to think like a global health diplomat, examining why optimism is justified despite current challenges and what opportunities exist in moments of crisis. In this moment of change, what role could you play in building the health partnerships your community needs for future challenges?   Useful resources Health Diplomacy Initiative: https://globalhealthdiplomacy.se  The Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response: https://theindependentpanel.org/ Wong BLH, Nordström A, Piot P, Clark H; Global Health Diplomacy Partners. From polycrisis to metacrisis: harnessing windows of opportunity for renewed political leadership in global health diplomacy. BMJ Glob Health. 2024 Apr 18;9(4):e015340. doi: 10.1136/bmjgh-2024-015340. PMID: 38637121; PMCID: PMC11029238.   Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

How do powerful industries shape what we believe about health risks—and what we don't? Dr. Nason Maani, Senior Lecturer (Associate Professor) in Inequalities and Global Health Policy at the University of Edinburgh, has spent years uncovering how commercial interests influence public health understanding. Salma and Nason tackle the commercial determinants of health framework, moving beyond the typical focus on individual choices to examine the systems that shape those choices. They dig into Nason's "Manufacturing Doubt" paper, which investigated how industries weaponize uncertainty against public health evidence—using “alternative causation” arguments. The conversation explores the methodological challenges of researching corporate actors and the need to translate evidence about commercial influence into effective policy action. This episode challenges listeners to consider whether our focus on individual behavior change might be missing the bigger picture of who benefits from keeping populations unhealthy. How have you seen commercial interests shape health discussions in your field?   Useful resources Maani N, Van Schalkwyk MCI, Filippidis FT, Knai C, Petticrew M. Manufacturing doubt: Assessing the effects of independent vs industry-sponsored messaging about the harms of fossil fuels, smoking, alcohol, and sugar sweetened beverages. SSM - Population Health. 2022;17:101009. doi:1016/j.ssmph.2021.101009 Maani N, Petticrew M, Galea S, eds. The Commercial Determinants of Health. Oxford University Press; 2022. https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-commercial-determinants-of-health-9780197578759?cc=us&lang=en& Money, Power, Health with Nason Maani (podcast): https://anchor.fm/s/b50fce1c/podcast/rss https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/money-power-health-with-nason-maani/id1667592518 https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Aa2qRUtfM0eVUYNxF6Bvf Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.

As public health faces mounting challenges, what does meaningful progress actually look like? This inaugural episode features Sandro Galea, Margaret C. Ryan Dean and Eugene S. and Constance Kahn Distinguished Professor at Washington University's newly established School of Public Health. Salma and Dean Galea dive deep into his concept of "consequential epidemiology"—the idea that research should drive real-world change, not just academic publications. They explore the "Healthiest Goldfish" analogy and what it reveals about how we think about population health interventions. The conversation also tackles why this moment feels particularly significant for launching a new school of public health, and Dean Galea shares the one public health question that genuinely keeps him awake at night. This episode sets the stage for our series by examining not just what public health does, but what it should aspire to do differently. What assumptions about public health do you think need challenging? Useful resources: The Healthiest Goldfish:https://sandrogalea.substack.com Galea S. Well: What We Need to Talk about When We Talk about Health. Oxford University Press; 2019. Galea S. The Contagion next Time. Oxford University Press; 2022 WashU Public Health 4x4 Plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRa1zpLXwCc&t=1s Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/   The views and opinions expressed by the guest in this episode do not necessarily reflect those of their institution, the funders, or the podcast team.