Crossing The River

Bárbara Muelas (Misak Indigenous People, Colombia), the first Indigenous woman in the Colombian Academy of Language, has spent her 80 years reviving Namtrik, her mother tongue—one of 65 Indigenous languages that still survive in Colombia despite centuries of colonization. Once spoken only aloud, it is now etched in writing so it will not vanish. Born to terrajeros during a time in which colonizers forced the Misak nation to work in their own land, she saw her people reclaim their territory in the 1980s and knew that freedom also meant reclaiming their language. Mamá Bárbara translated the ethnic chapter of Colombia’s Constitution into Namtrik, believing each language holds a unique way of seeing the world—and that by learning them, we also come to know ourselves, and the threads that bind us all.

In this episode, Grandmother Helen Lindmark (Sámi Indigenous People, Sápmi) shares her deep connection to the land and the Sámi way of life. The Sámi people inhabit Sápmi—a vast, remote region that spans Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Russia’s Kola Peninsula—located within the Arctic Circle and rich in minerals like copper and gold. Because of this, their lands and communities have long been threatened by extractive industries and colonial forces that have sought to suppress their language and cultural traditions. Today, the Sámi are the only Indigenous people recognized within the European Union.Despite these challenges, Grandmother Helen continues to defend the sacred relationship between her people, their land, and the more-than-human world. Through silence and the practice of deep listening to the language of nature, she reminds us of the importance of returning to our roots and recognizing our profound interconnectedness.

In this episode, Christine Kandie (Endorois Indigenous People, Kenia) shares a deeply personal story of dispossession, resistance, and healing. Following the forced eviction of her people from their ancestral land in 1973, Christine grew up hearing stories of a lake that was like a womb for her community—vital, spiritual, and irreplaceable. In this episode, we follow her journey from a childhood in exile to becoming the founder of the Endorois Indigenous Women Empowerment Network. Along the way, she has challenged layers of invisibility to demand justice, reparations, and recognition. This is a story about the power of memory, identity, and what it means to keep fighting when you are told to forget who you are.

In the first episode of the second season, Mphatheleni Makaulule (Venda Indigenous People, South Africa) shares her experience as a keeper of Indigenous knowledge systems. Mphatheleni argues that defending her territory means protecting her language—the words she and her people use to foster relationships with their land. As part of her work, she has documented and preserved the knowledge of the elders and the wisdom embedded in their language.

Crossing the River is a podcast in which we hear from Indigenous leaders who defend life on Earth every day, in their own words, because they are the protagonists of their own stories. To make the collective decisions which will define our present and our future, and to re-examine the stories we tell about our past, we must listen to their voices. This podcast amplifies Indigenous peoples’ voices; it does not explain or interrupt them. Here, you will hear directly from Indigenous leaders, because deep listening requires paying close attention to the way they pause and breathe and to the weight they carry in their voices.We invite you to cross the river, to connect and meet with Indigenous leaders and their peoples. With this exercise in attentive listening and practice, we plant this collective seed for the future with them.Welcome to the second season of Crossing the River.Crossing the River is a podcast from the More Than Human Life Program (MOTH), based at the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at NYU School of Law and 070 Podcasts.The team behind the podcast is Carlos Andrés Baquero Díaz from MOTH, Natalia Arenas, Goldy Levy, and Andrés Villegas. The original art is by Nefazta and the music is by Cosmo Sheldrake. 

Davi Kopenawa Yanomami (Yanomami Indigenous People, Brazil) is a shaman, a leader, and a scientist. Davi has crossed multiple rivers many times to question what he calls the “people of the merchandise” and their desire to exploit and possess human and more-than-human life. Davi, in this episode, delves into his ancestral knowledge to present his critique of a society obsessed with material objects, with trinkets. At the same time, Davi shares how the Yanomami people talk with nature, the being that does not lie.

Ana Manuela Ochoa (Kankuamo Indigenous People, Colombia) is the first Indigenous Justice at the Special Jurisdiction for Peace (JEP, for its acronym in Spanish). As part of her work, Ochoa has been arguing for the recognition of the territories as victims of the Colombian armed conflict. In her own words, human and more-than-human suffering should be recognized and repaired as part of the reconciliation process happening in the country.

In this episode, Luiz Eloy Terena (Terena Indigenous People, Brazil), explains the legal case of the Marco Temporal in Brazil, and the strategies of Indigenous organizations to overturn the unconstitutional initiative. Terena also explains his role as a lawyer and cultural translator for the Indigenous peoples and their organizations in Brazil.

José Gualinga (Kichwa Indigenous People of Sarayaku, Ecuador) introduces the concept of Kawsak Sacha (Living Forest) and describes its dual meaning: the profound connection between humans and their territory, and the core mission of the Sarayaku struggle. For the Sarayaku People, their territory and the more-than-human world must be protected and should be granted legal rights.

Joan Carling (Kankanaey Indigenous People, Philippines) poses a critical question: how do we respond to the global system that sees sustainability—and our planet's future—as merely another profit-making venture? The third episode of Crossing the River responds to the expansion of green colonialism and the climate crisis by emphasizing the crucial role of Indigenous peoples in the decision-making processes that affect their lives and territories.

Maurício Ye’kuana (Ye’kuana Indigenous People, Brazil), delves into the struggle of the Yanomami Indigenous People to oppose illegal gold mining in the Brazilian Amazon as well as the Brazilian government’s failure to respond meaningfully to this ongoing crisis. In the second installment of Crossing The River, concepts at the heart of the so-called First World – like progress, consumption, and extraction – are called into question as Maurício discusses the steps Indigenous peoples in the Amazon have taken to defend their lives and territories.

In this episode, Juma Xipaia (Xipaia Indigenous People, Brazil) shares her experiences as a woman and as an Indigenous leader while also commenting on the institutional transformations that have taken place in Brazil since the election of President Lula da Silva. 

Crossing the River is a podcast in which we hear from Indigenous leaders that defend life on earth every day: in their own words, because they are the protagonists of their stories. Indigenous leaders are the voices that the world must listen to in order to make the collective decisions that define our present and future. Indigenous leaders have crossed the river from shore to shore many times and used different strategies to talk with Western society, but the West continues to do it only with violence, to colonize, extract, and destroy. This is an exercise to change that. 

Jacqueline Flores (Asháninka Indigenous People, Peru) thinks that being a plant doctor is not a title—it is an ancient science of direct encounter. One must take the plants, ingest them, allow them to move through the body, and speak. This is a knowledge revealed slowly, through dreams and disciplined diets, where the plants themselves become teachers.As a traditional healer of the Asháninka people—one of the Amazon’s most profound guardians of medicinal plant wisdom—Jacqueline embodies a way of healing rooted in time, reciprocity, and deep attention. She speaks critically of urban worlds that have severed their ties with nature, trading connection for chemical quick fixes that soothe but do not truly cure.True healing, she reminds us, is a slow unfolding. It asks us to relearn how to listen—to the plants, to the forest, to the more-than-human voices that have not stopped speaking.

Noemí Gualinga (Kichwa Indigenous People of Sarayaku, Ecuador) is an Indigenous leader and a member of the Amazonian Women Defenders of the Rainforest Collective, an organization dedicated to protecting the rights of Indigenous women and their territories.Noemí has crossed many rivers — both literal and metaphorical — learning to adapt to life in the city, to other languages, and to unfamiliar rules. She has adapted, but never forgotten who she is or where she comes from. This is the lesson she has passed on to her children.For Noemí, preserving and transmitting knowledge — and sustaining the deep relationship with their territory — rests on one essential foundation: protecting and caring for their language. Because it is through language that children come to understand the wisdom of the forest and learn how to care for and defend their roots.

Patricia Tobón Yagarí (Emberá-Chamí Indigenous People, Colombia) is an Indigenous attorney who bridges worlds: between Indigenous and non-Indigenous cosmologies, communities and the State, Western law and the stories of the Colombian armed conflict, and the processes of truth, healing, and reparation. Her home was her first school, and her career demonstrates that being born between two worlds—and deeply understanding both—is a powerful tool for building bridges between diverse actors.

En el episodio final de esta temporada de Cruzar el Río, conversamos con Davi Kopenawa Yanomami, chamán, líder y etnógrafo del pueblo indígena Yanomami de Brasil. Davi nos invita a reflexionar sobre la obsesión materialista de la sociedad moderna, la que él llama como el «pueblo de las mercancías», que también se puede traducir como el pueblo que se concentró en acumular cachivaches. Este pueblo está afanada por explotar y apropiarse de la vida humana y más-que-humana. Desde su conocimiento ancestral, Davi comparte cómo el pueblo Yanomami mantiene un diálogo constante con la naturaleza, el ser que no miente, ofreciendo una visión crítica y transformadora para repensar nuestra relación con el mundo que habitamos.

En este episodio de Cruzar el Río, conversamos con Ehuana Yaira Yanomami, artista, escritora e investigadora del pueblo indígena Yanomami de Brasil. Ehuana reflexiona sobre el papel crucial de las mujeres en la resistencia contra la minería ilegal de oro y la violencia patriarcal asociada a esta práctica. En su lengua materna, una de las seis de la familia lingüística yanomami, nos guía a través de las luchas y transformaciones que han redefinido la movilización indígena, resaltando la fuerza colectiva de las mujeres y la defensa del territorio en la Amazonía.

En este episodio, Luiz Eloy Terena, del Pueblo Indígena Terena de Brasil, narra la movilización en contra del Marco Temporal, el caso más importante de la historia relacionado a los derechos territoriales de los pueblos indígenas en Brasil. También habla de su trabajo como abogado indígena y de su rol como traductor para ayudar a tender puentes entre los pueblos indígenas y el resto de la sociedad.

En este episodio, José Gualinga, líder del pueblo indígena Sarayaku de Ecuador, presenta la iniciativa Kawsak Sacha, o Selva Viviente, y explica sus dos significados fundamentales. Por un lado, destaca la profunda conexión espiritual y material entre los seres humanos y su territorio. Por otro, resalta el propósito esencial de la lucha del pueblo Sarayaku: lograr que su territorio y todos los seres que lo habitan, sean reconocidos, resguardados y protegidos por el derecho.